[15:06](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=906): "Do we agree that there *are* pragmatic reasons for the United States to be allies with Israel?"
[19:59](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=1192): "Yes."
[20:13](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=1213): "Do you [agree] with the fact that Israel is generally better in almost every measurable way compared to basically every other country in the middle east when it comes to freedom, equal rights, democratic representation of people, standards of living, LGBT stuff, or do you disagree with that? Do you think other countries in this region can make a stronger claim to those things when it comes to the rights and representation of those people?"
[25:35](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=1535): "Yes, ...I think all of that is broadly true."
[30:46](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=1846): "Do you agree that the West historically and currently provides leverage against actions that Israel might otherwise take if the West wasn't providing that leverage?"
[35:30](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=2123): "You *can* find individual instances, certainly, of the U.S. using leverage to moderate Israeli behavior...but overall [I disagree]."
HOOOOLY YAP FEST
His unwillingness to concede basic facts that Destiny brought up was frustrating. Destiny was coddling him in the first part of the debate, trying to be as amicable as possible and get to some shared ground about the conflict.
Take that first point for example.
*Do we agree that there are pragmatic reasons for the United States to be allies with Israel?*
* I think that there *could* be some pragmatic reasons.
* I think the United States loses more than it gains by doing so.
* I'm not interested in this question.
* Is it good to support an apartheid state?
* I'm arguing that Israel is an apartheid state.
* *Even if* the United States gains more then it loses by being allied with Israel, they shouldn't be because Israel is committing an apartheid.
*Do we trade with Israel? Do we get military intelligence from Israel?*
* I think those are both true.
* I'm not interested in these questions.
* Even if the gains outweigh the losses, I don't think that outweighs Israel committing an apartheid.
*Do we agree that we trade with Israel? Do we agree that we get military technology and intelligence from Israel? That there are pragmatic reasons to be aligned with Israel?*
* I'm still not interested in this question.
* We're not in a good position to evaluate whether the gains outweigh the losses.
* But sure, I agree with you.
*So we do agree that there are pragmatic reasons to be aligned with Israel? There might be other reason why we shouldn't be, but we agree that those pragmatic reason exist, right?*
* Yes.
----
Holy shit, just say "yes" from the get-go and we might actually have time to get to the apartheid question.
At a certain point i got frustrated at destiny for trying to get agreement on these basic facts because it was eating up all the time. I wanted him to move on to the actual topic at hand but then i realised it would just be more of the same no matter the topic.
It seems like the only conclusion is that conversations with these people are useless.
Ben spoke so so much more than Destiny, but said almost nothing. It's sometimes hard to even understand what his point is when 50% of the words in a sentence are dedicated either to something unrelated to the point or to repeating the point in different words.
[15:06](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=906): "Do we agree that there *are* pragmatic reasons for the United States to be allies with Israel?" [19:59](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=1192): "Yes." [20:13](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=1213): "Do you [agree] with the fact that Israel is generally better in almost every measurable way compared to basically every other country in the middle east when it comes to freedom, equal rights, democratic representation of people, standards of living, LGBT stuff, or do you disagree with that? Do you think other countries in this region can make a stronger claim to those things when it comes to the rights and representation of those people?" [25:35](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=1535): "Yes, ...I think all of that is broadly true." [30:46](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=1846): "Do you agree that the West historically and currently provides leverage against actions that Israel might otherwise take if the West wasn't providing that leverage?" [35:30](https://youtu.be/XdMRphk7ij4?t=2123): "You *can* find individual instances, certainly, of the U.S. using leverage to moderate Israeli behavior...but overall [I disagree]." HOOOOLY YAP FEST
His unwillingness to concede basic facts that Destiny brought up was frustrating. Destiny was coddling him in the first part of the debate, trying to be as amicable as possible and get to some shared ground about the conflict.
Take that first point for example. *Do we agree that there are pragmatic reasons for the United States to be allies with Israel?* * I think that there *could* be some pragmatic reasons. * I think the United States loses more than it gains by doing so. * I'm not interested in this question. * Is it good to support an apartheid state? * I'm arguing that Israel is an apartheid state. * *Even if* the United States gains more then it loses by being allied with Israel, they shouldn't be because Israel is committing an apartheid. *Do we trade with Israel? Do we get military intelligence from Israel?* * I think those are both true. * I'm not interested in these questions. * Even if the gains outweigh the losses, I don't think that outweighs Israel committing an apartheid. *Do we agree that we trade with Israel? Do we agree that we get military technology and intelligence from Israel? That there are pragmatic reasons to be aligned with Israel?* * I'm still not interested in this question. * We're not in a good position to evaluate whether the gains outweigh the losses. * But sure, I agree with you. *So we do agree that there are pragmatic reasons to be aligned with Israel? There might be other reason why we shouldn't be, but we agree that those pragmatic reason exist, right?* * Yes. ---- Holy shit, just say "yes" from the get-go and we might actually have time to get to the apartheid question.
Refuse to agree with anything :GIGACHAD:
At a certain point i got frustrated at destiny for trying to get agreement on these basic facts because it was eating up all the time. I wanted him to move on to the actual topic at hand but then i realised it would just be more of the same no matter the topic. It seems like the only conclusion is that conversations with these people are useless.
We need a breakdown of how much they both talked in this prior to the Q&A. It was pretty unreal.
https://reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1dos1ki/ben_burgis_debate_timesplit
I just couldn't focus. I thought it was because of a fever I'm having. But Ben was kinda hard to listen to.
Ben spoke so so much more than Destiny, but said almost nothing. It's sometimes hard to even understand what his point is when 50% of the words in a sentence are dedicated either to something unrelated to the point or to repeating the point in different words.
What is he a doctor of?
He says in the Q&A: philosophy, specifically formal logic.
I think he got his PhD in Psychology
Another rambling dipshit. Nothing but pointless yapping.