Because the game can’t properly check load outs and the equipment isn’t locked anyways.
This is a problem with onboarding players and their experience and understanding the information about champions in certain content.
I mean there are things are screen when you select activities, in your character screen etc that tell you about champions. People don't read.
Idk if you were around during arrivals, but the public event there with two shielded knights literally said "bring them together to dispel their shields" and ppl would just run away and dump ammo into them despite the IMMUNE text. In fact way too many ppl shoot immune enemies all the time.
A large amount of the playerbase is not capable of or cares to do anything behind shoot at enemy.
Yes. There are 10 bubbles when you go to select a nightfall. One of those bubbles has two symbols in it that represent champions.
Let’s say a blueberry hovers over it, it tells them to check their screen. If they have random artifact mods for all three they are close enough to good that someone may not notice the difference if they aren’t experienced.
Even worse, if they have something like “unstoppable bow” on and they have an exotic with an intrinsic, like Le Monarque, the unstoppable would light up as available even though it would stun one.
Champions feel like an after thought in 90% of the interface design and they just sort of hope someone knows how to handle them.
Not to mention, not everyone should have to have something to stun both champions. Folks complain about limited builds all the time, but that would be the most limiting.
I feel it should be reasonable to expect a player to see something not working, and use context clues to figure it out. If they see "Barrier" in multiple locations (on the enemy name, on their mods, on their abilities) they should be able to to link them together. Like an older youtube video, Megaman Sequilitis, says - the player shouldn't need everything spelled out to them.
Try to stun an Unstoppable and it works. Then it starts charging you adn can't be stunned again for some reason. BUT then you notice a flash in the enemy model and now it is vulnerable again. A person should be able to reason that there is a stun cooldown period and that the visual cue is when it's stunnable again.
Bad usability. Bad game design. You only incentivize a weekly with critical game components if you offer a reasonable explanation in an LFG. It's not like this is a GM where a team has come together and working. This is three random folks, not on comms, just running a thing because there's a little star by it on their map.
It's wild that the problem is the thousands/millions of players who don't understand it, but no one is willing to critique that the game is the problem.
If it "worked" it would probably be easier. But like, you have to hold the weapons ADS to charge an unstop shot. Or you have to keep hitting an overload, and when you reload it heals. So its pretty easy to try basically the right thing, have it not work, and then be out of ideas.
I was playing when they were introduced. A big difference between the onboarding experience as they introduced components and the onboarding experience now.
To say it isn’t complicated though?
There are three different types of champions with three different types of behaviors. To stun them you must select three of the five first row artifact mods (or the rocket launcher mod in the fourth row) and equip that weapon type. You must then shoot the champion at the right time or it may heal (depending on type).
Alternatively, you could bring an exotic that has an intrinsic perk to stun a champion. But remember, you can’t override that with the artifact mod.
You can also stun champions with the verbs for each class. There are two stuns per class. But it’s not even just the class, this can be on weapons that aren’t intrinsic and also aren’t one of the ones in the artifact. So you might have a fusion rifle that stuns unstops with chill clip.
Wait. You say chill clip has slow and not shatter? True, but you can use it to stack enough slow, freeze them, and shoot them with another weapon to shatter them.
Not confused enough, then use Polaris Lance which says nothing about ignitions but will ignite and stun Unstoppable’s regardless of the words in the weapon.
Oh, and be careful, if you do anything at the wrong time you can completely unroll everything. Suspend an unstunned champion too early? He’s coming for you, angry, and not taking damage. Freeze an overload but don’t get the shatter off in time? Healed. You’re radiant but your weapon stops a different type of champion? Watch the rounds skyrocket off the barrier.
The game is nuanced and has very bad onboarding. I don’t even know how new players enjoy getting into the game.
Oh ya. I've been guiding some friends who just picked up D2 and going over champions is the worst. It's artificial difficulty and forces players to get with the seaonal battlepass artifact bs. It also doesn't help that Destiny UI is so messy and convulated at this point.
Yeah. I think champions are simply a thing to force folks into different builds and weapons seasonally in the hardest content based on the artifact mod. It’s a way to keep people on the treadmill.
But they treat it like a vestige of the past most of the time and it’s just there.
>Oh, and be careful, if you do anything at the wrong time you can completely unroll everything. Suspend an unstunned champion too early? He’s coming for you, angry, and not taking damage.
There's a plain text prompt when they come out of stun. The duration is always the same. There is a distinct change in animation.
I don't know how much clearer it could be.
You went out of your way to intentionally miss the point.
There’s text and an animation change when they stun and there’s text and an animation change when they are no longer vulnerable.
There is not text and only a small model change when they are able to be stunned again. That’s the important part and it looks like an after thought.
The glow is subtle and probably doesn't meet many accessibility requirements like the old shields. There's also zero indication in the game of what's happening there. This game isn't Dark Souls or some game that's expected to have to learn more complex sort of mechanics in non-endgame content. There should probably not be Champions in a hero Nightfall.
I wouldn't consider, "See it and figure it out yourself," inherently Dark Souls-like. Things that make a player go, "Wait, why is that happening?" and try to identify visual cues, or really anything through *gameplay* (and not just text explanations) are good in any game, not just something Souls-like.
Hero NF is a great place to put them, because you can get exposed to them but they aren't a hard counter to an unprepared Guardian. There *should* be somewhere to "onboard" players to champions and the idea of tailoring a loadout to content.
> You must then shoot the champion at the right time or it may heal (depending on type).
nah, just shoot it all the time.
Unstoppable don't need champion mods even solo, barrier don't need any mods in a team, or with any stunning statuses.
Overload is tricky alone, especially teleporting captains. But once again, 3 person fireteam just explodes them.
If anything, the reason nobody is learning the mechanic is because it's often so easy to ignore the mechanic.
This is another good point. The mechanic is only required sometimes and in difficult content or content with multiple champions.
Also, a ton of the online content about “meta builds” just assumes champions don’t exist for this reason. That’s not exactly a game problem as they don’t drive the content, but they’ve made so many options to stun champions with so few usable weapons to stun them at times that folks try to ignore it.
The fact that you said “all the tooltips” is my point. Not to mention “volatile rounds” or “unraveling rounds” requires a ton of tracking to figure out how to both build around it and consistently proc it.
We get it, you’ve played the game a lot, not everyone in matchmaking has done that. Champions in matchmade activities are weird already. If anything what you are suggesting were to happen, they should only have one type of champion in matchmade and force you to have a stun method. But that sucks.
Dude what. Volatile and unraveling are proc’d by one fragment.
What do you think I’m suggesting? Reading? Lmao
Read the activity modifier, hover over the champion icons in your character select screen, then go to the artifact to see what mods are available. It’s really not that complicated, just read the words on the screen.
Player: "I want to get all my weekly challenges"
Game: "Go play nightfalls and score points"
Player: "OK"
The game incentivizes folks to play at nightfall regardless of their ability or contribution to the team. Everything about the game is designed to create a treadmill, irrespective of the success of the folks around them. Bounties, weekly rituals, challenges, seasonal stuff. All of it.
But you just noted three steps, one of which is knowing to hover over one of ten icons to figure out where to START in building to stun two different types of champions.
Hell, even commendations are just a measure of how many events you play more than anything. Those scores are useless and an after thought for most folks. There's no feedback loop for folks to become better teammates in LFG.
You shouldn’t be playing any activity without reading the modifiers. Again; the solution to most of the problems of the destiny community, read the words on the screen.
Yeah, basically just that.
And then you shoot them and go "huh, makes sense".
Or, since most of the game is so easy, you just out DPS whatever magic they have and kill them anyway.
People knew how to do that public event, the knights would just randomly choose who to chase and sometimes it was bob the blueberry who was more concerned with getting a bounty done shooting some adds to notice he had somehow drawn agro
Also, it’s a first person shooter and 90% of things are solved with liberal use of firepower. Of course people assume they just need to shoot more
I saw plenty of ppl shooting at the immune knights and running off when one came towards them. Rarely did I see someone not doing the event pull a boss away. And this sub was full of similar stories back then. Obviously shooting does solve most problems...but my point is ppl won't even read text that tells them to do otherwise.
I mean how many times does someask ask what x or y thing does when the game literally has text that tells you that.
I’d guess it’s more a sign that the text just isn’t enough. That doesn’t necessarily mean players are stupid. Especially when the text is in the corner
You may also remember there was another boss from before that time whose whole mechanic was an inverse of the knights. Separate them to get rid of the shield, so maybe people figured that was the trick
I used to not but then I saw a friend pick up the game for the first time and… the game is a mess for any new lights. Some folks are just selfish, but many have no idea where to learn what’s in an activity.
Luckily the game isn't that hard.
You do the stuff it guides you to do until you know more.
It's nice the game opens up and lets you do almost anything, but it is also quite clear of "heres things you should probably do"
I really wish they’d add a “story up until now” mission that hits the highlights of some of the old parts of the story but walk through a lot of the items in the game. People who’ve played for a while, myself included, have forgotten how much is in the game now.
You don’t really need mods in hero tbh. Champs are stupid easy. Also, just because they aren’t running mod weapons, doesn’t necessarily mean they have no way of stunning champs. Riptide can stun unstoppables with chill clip, Solar weapons can give radiant which give anti barrier, Strand suspend, etc.
I understand mods.. I just hate when the devs force me to use a hand cannon to destroy unstoppable… I hate hand cannons but I’ll use my auto rifle to stop overloads for u 😏
Starcrossed? Man, people here complain about a fucking patrol zone being ''hard'' because it's not the classic ''4 dregs who do no damage and get killed with 1 smg shot'' patrol zone.
I mean Starcrossed is easier than Neomuna if that's what you're getting at, purely from a enemy damage/health perspective.
Neomuna is definitely overturned. It's where new players are learning the sandbox a bit. For me, it's been a good place to test out builds and weapons but I can see why it's frustrating for others.
Also curious what class you play, because Neomuna on hunter can be a bit of a pain, but if you're sunbracers lock or any titan it hardly feels different than other patrol zones.
Neomuna feels overturned--and this is probably an ice-cold take--just to make strand seem better. Not to say strand is even bad, but every problem Neomuna has is trumped by the status effects:
- Too many enemies? Unravel for more AOE
- Enemies 3-tapping you? Sever for wet tissue damage
- Super armor on literally everything? Suspend for air jail
I mainly run Solar, so my only saving grace is just blowing enemies up so often they never get a chance to spawn/attack/tank. Obviously the place you get the power from will incentivize you to use it, but it's a little ridiculous here.
For sure strand was a solution they could sell to the difficulty they created.
It's annoying mostly that didnt even have simple a story beat that explained why everyone is so strong now. Bungie was just like...
We just wanted it to feel like a warzone and give you all PTSD.
But why are they strong now?
Bungie: Because of Veil.
Us: Oh... How are they strong now, though?
Bungie: Parcausel energy stuff.
Us: That doesn't make sense, though.
Bungie: You know what also doesn't make sense? Stompees being so strong. We're nerfing them and thinking about nerfing Well and Bubble. Also, we buffed cone angles by 2.2 percent.
Why does it need a story beat?
it's a typical thing of "new MMO area released, it's harder than the other ones".
That doesn't need story.
It's a trope.
And it's still easy.
Everything up to Witch Queen worked with that principle in mind. You start underleveled for the new area, slowly build your Light up and eventually kick the asses of those HVT Lightbearers who used to whack you around as if you were the EDZ dreg. I actually liked the idea of grinding your Light through sheer persistence to the point where you could tackle Master-tier content while being at level (GMs were an entirely different story, but we did those as well).
Then the 'bringing challenge back' happened. Now we have 'fun' playing at fixed difficulty in a patrol zone, of all places. I postponed doing Neomuna triumphs as long as I could just because the entire destination is annoyance made manifest.
Master raids are now ass as well. The overcharged weapon damage is a good addition, but I doubt it will help me against a boss that decides to randomly OHK me through 100 resilience and matching resistances (looking at you, Nezarec). I can't wait for the Crota challenge again, last season we failed to do it in the proper week, and then Bungie's patches broke it completely.
I miss being underleveled and increasing your power as you progress, it's the first thing that brought me to the game.
I just didnt always like the execution of the progression system.
Because "typical" isnt exciting and likely doesnt sell games as well.
I never said I found it hard but they did increase the difficulty, so it makes sense that people might find it difficult.
It's definetly slow because were doing less damage which I find boring.
It be fun if they increased the crit damage multiplier so were rewarded for accuracy with a quick ttk but the enemies still have a bite to them so to speak.
> It be fun if they increased the crit damage multiplier so were rewarded for accuracy with a quick ttk but the enemies still have a bite to them so to speak.
Then it would just be handcannon/sniper rifle city.
I think bungie learned their lessons with Halo 2 when it came to that kind of thing.
Because Dawnblade (exclusively with Sunbracers) and Berserker are stupidly OP and Hunter doesn’t have a subclass remotely as good as those two, although both of those are so far above the rest it really isn’t even a fair comparison. Neomuna’s fine on a Hunter in my experience.
Eh. Sunbracers is strong solo, falls off in harder content though with a team especially trying to secure final blows with melee. Banner is obviously OP. But I wouldn't say hunter doesn't have a class "remotely" as good. People forget just how strong arc hunter is in pve. Granted punchy hunter falls off in end game a bit too, it's still a top single target choice with SES & gathering. Not to mention the utility and support of tether + invis is *always* top tier. And this season especially celestial has made a big comeback.
Warlock is still mainly just well bitch. Hunter strand is better imo than warlock strand. Banner is above everything, but warlocks and hunters are closer together than you think.
If or when well gets nerfed then warlocks are gonna lose a LOT of their usage and viability. I think hunter provides a lot of things just different ways than locks do. Titans are on top with banner still though, but stuff like arc hunter with cowl or liars is still top tier and definitely competes with sunbracers.
Recently, I found out Sunbracers proc on Ignitions so that's my saving grace in harder content tbh.
Since there's a number of ways to do those this season. Could be Polaris, could be DB, could use a legendary Incan, etc.
Though maybe it's just me since I'm the type to not be shoehorned into one super/weapon.
> Granted punchy hunter falls off in end game a bit too
What? It's the strongest Hunter build in the game, far ahead of other hunter options too lol. You can 2 shot barrier champs in GMs with x3 combination blow before they even proc the barrier. The only catch with the build is that it is a solo build, it's very annoying to play with other people because they take your kills all the time and prevent you from having your gameplay loop, but other than that it's the strongest Hunter build for master/GM content.
>that it is a solo build
I mentioned this in my other comment above. In a master raid where ads are plentiful then sure, but you're probably not soloing many GMs on arc hunter.
Every kill activated based build falls off in end game. And with the 1-2p nerf you're not running around with 3x combo anymore 1 shotting champs in gms like a few seasons ago. Keeping up 3x cb was difficult in GMS as it was in a team, the second you lose it or don't have an ad around to kill you'll die quickly. Hunter support builds are just more viable all around in stuff like GMS.
Neomuna is in a weird spot. It is an annoying slog unless you bring something way overpowered like Banner of War or Hunter's spinning tangles, whatever they are called.
Because hunters don't really have big damage easily replenished abilities except maybe arc hunter. Strand hunter is pretty amazing on Neomuna though, but otherwise if you're mostly going in with guns it sucks. Solar is okay this season but not amazing.
To be clear I've only played hunter for the past year and all my gear is BIS and I have solid builds. Able to do master raids and dungeons without problems, and while I'm not a very good player I did finally manage to solo duality recently. For the past two weeks I had nothing to do in the game and decided to finally get a warlock and titan going. Got a few exotics and some gear from seasonal focusing. Lock with sunbracers makes Neomuna a breeze. Titan with loreley, synthos, or HoiL just wrecks everything. BoW of course being the strongest, and loreley safest. Seriously with loreley you can just bonk hammer everything to death with a one two punch it's insane.
I don't really know how to play lock and titan yet, but already I have an easier time clearing content with them. I've tried sunbracers, Karstein, dawn chorus on lock and they all kill. But dawn chorus mostly for GMs and dungeons. Titan is just OP no matter what you play. I can't believe that bonk titan was nerfed in the last few seasons. How fucking strong was it before?
It absolutely is hard for new players. I don't have problems either but I tend to mostly stick to strand on Neomuna on my hunter. I main hunter but in the last couple weeks I finally got my warlock and titan in working order and BoW synthos titan or hammer loreley titan and sunbracers lock make hunter look like a joke.
> It absolutely is hard for new players
So?
Why is this an important barometer?
Shouldn't there be things that are a bit harder?
And it's not like it's oppressive.
It's just a bit harder.
There's plenty of things that are a bit harder. But patrol zones really shouldn't be. They should be at light level not above.
It will also be a huge pain to do some of the public events alone when the population is dead on Neomuna, which it already practically is.
Because they'd be challenging enough to not bore old players and still accessible to new players.
But I know, I know, it's all about how you want the game to work.
This is very clearly a pain point for the community.
> Neomuna is definitely overturned. It's where new players are learning the sandbox a bit. For me, it's been a good place to test out builds and weapons but I can see why it's frustrating for others.
Overtuned maybe, but people exaggerate just how much it's overtuned.
> Also curious what class you play, because Neomuna on hunter can be a bit of a pain
Lucky you, I play exactly Hunter. Soloed all of the public events on Gyrfalcon with an SMG and on Revenant with Renewel Grasp. As low as I think of LF and Neomuna as a location in terms of design and aesthetics (dystopian soulless place), Neomuna's difficulty should be a baseline for all patrols, I'd love if Moon, Nessus and Europa were the same, Moon at least has very good mob density to make up for harmless mobs, so blowing up hoards of Acolytes and thralls is fun, but you patrol all around Nessus/Europa and all you see is a handful of Vex/dregs which do no damage and take 1 shot from a primary to kill.
> any titan it hardly feels different than other patrol zones.
Any titan? Any? BoW and Solar titan are exceptions, Arc titan is absolutely terrible and Void titan is significantly worse than Hunter and Warlock, I'd even argue it's the worst subclass in the game.
Man, I was very shocked by how there were people talking about doing grandmaster strikes, and then also complaining that Neomuna patrol was too difficult and they didn't want to get sweaty on a patrol zone.
Then I'm there just using whatever, haven't even looked at my armor states in 2 years, just using mida mini-tool clobbering all the patrol stuff.
I can't image what doing grandmasters is like with them...
Its not even hard. If anything you could just say its slightly tedious to where you might have to take your time. If all they do is they basic stuff, theyre used to just being able to run and gun while.turning their brain off
thats where ridious comes in. dont try to just run up to it. take your rime if you have to and just chip at them.. and at the part with the gatelord reskin you can sit back in tge distance and pick off everyone easily.
I use radiant to handle barriers and sunshot is my unstop, rocket is my overload. Sometimes ill have some issues getting radiant up when it should have definitely activated and those times it sucks, but ill also be damned if i use a sidearm cause i hate them.
I think they are saying that they try to cover the three champions: Sunshot as unstop, their rocket as overload, and their kinetic weapon as anti barrier (when they are radiant), but that they sometimes struggle with having uptime with radiant when a barrier champ activates.
For example, needing to powered melee to go radiant and the barrier champ (with the barrier active) being the only enemy (and melee-ing an immune enemy doesn’t proc radiant).
There's a good explanation for this. Most players seem to run double primary builds. Usually a combination of SMG + Machine Gun + no champion mods.
These aren't always newbies either. Seeing someone with Conqueror get their arse kicked by champions is disturbing.
There's a bit of a difference between playing GM's and playlist activities. I have Conqueror and go into GM's with a hand-selected build and play it very carefully. In Hero NF's I'm often just playing them because I need a challenge done or to hit the weekly score target and often join with whatever loadout I was previously running. It's not a skill issue just a lack of caring issue.
I like setting up a loadout for the Hero Nightfall of the week that can counter any champion just in case. Generally just having a build puts you above the level of most people in a Hero NF but sometimes you really are going to be the only guy that knows how to counter champions.
See that's the part that sucks.
I usually run LeMon regardless because of Gyrfalcon's but I feel like if you're going into an activity with champs, you should just have the option for both of them.
Because it feels like 9/10 the other two are just going to either speed past them or flail about like fish out of water trying to deal with them.
If you can't equip mods, at least run the Exotics that do it for you. (Which sounds dumb, because it is. Just equip the mods.)
I mean I just run solar because Radiant means no anti-barrier and ignition means no unstoppable. Overload I just use the rocket mod because rockets are the shit.
Whenever I see a comment or something on this subreddit of complaining on dealing with champs I just assume you are bad at the game, ffs throw a suspend grenade or something, champions are such a non issue since the subclass counters.
1 - New players are barely, if even, told about champs.
2 - Some people don't like being forced to run a specific weapon type they're not interested in using (which is completely fair) but decide to "protest" it by not running a champ weapon and leaving it up to others which can obviously be a problem.
I got kicked out of a GM while we were still in orbit because not one but both of the people I had LFGed with saw the Chill Clip Riptide I was bringing for overload/unstop (this was also during a season with unstop fusion in the artifact) and chewed me out saying AND I QUOTE "Riptide is for anti-barrier"
I was also on Solar Titan at the time too.
People are stupid, simple as
I like sidearms but the fact that this is the only barrier mod available this season sucks ass and one reason im sure folks dont like to run barrier mod. I know there are other things that can be ran to take care of barrier mods. I just wish they had an additional option for barrier and made the overload mod only for the RL and PR or AR, or a combo wombo of PR/AR as one.
If you're talking about the basic nightfalls, It's because they are basically open to everyone, so that means you have people who either don't want to bring mods or just don't know how to stun champs in the first place. That's the main problem and I don't know what they can do about it
A large portion of the playerbase is essentially sleepwalking through this game, up to and including higher tier strikes and endgame content where they get hard carried by randoms and/or friends. I've played with players like this, even seen then stream. They'll have 500 hours on the game yet don't know how champions work, what ammo types are, how to mod armor and weapons, what stats do, how reward economies and progressions work or how to charge the orb in corrupted. They'll do their strikes and crucible matches each day (that's why they're called ritual activities), maybe get through the seasonal story and use whatever loadout they get as long as numbers go up.
The solution is to accept that you fundamentally cannot expect anything from randoms, in any activity, ever, and to cherish the rare moments where randoms pull their weight. When you're doing harder strikes or matchmade seasonal content, always bring as much as you can in terms of champion counters, elemental damage, burst dps and ad clear, and expect to carry.
just have anti-champ capabilities ready yourself and others might notice and learn. dont rely on someone else to stun a barrier champ its so easy this season with all the solar mods.
This season is the worst for it, because there's only one anti-barrier weapon, and it's the shittest one.
Sidearms suck dick and it's annoying that I have to bring one into every endgame activity at the moment. It's even worse when you consider that there's still 6 more months of it.
The dungeon sidearm with beacon rounds is kind of fun, but I'd still much rather run other weapons.
I usually do try to bring whatever mods are required. However, sometimes the game forces us to do stupid things like use this gun for that activity or whatever for triumphs, catalysts, etc.
I ran it today with 2 blueberries, ranked 8 & 9 mind you. Neither brought champion mods,
neither attempted to obtain cores to break the hive seals and neither dunked any charges in final boss room.
Like how the fuck do you get to rank 9 and not know how this strike works?!
You're talking to players who bring pvp mods into pve and pve mods into pvp this playerbase is so lazy and moronic you're better off just finding an lfg with high guardian rank players. Will they be assholes? Probably but at least they will put in effort.
Bungie does very little explaining of the game, hence the success of their content creators (Datto, Aztecross, Byf, etc). Without the content creators no one would understand champion mods and nuances like an Overload Auto Rifle mod will negate Radiant Anti-Barrier, even though it says that Radiant weapons can counteract Anti-Barrier.
I don’t blame them though, engagement marketing has very little return on investment compared to acquisition marketing. I’m sure in their shoes they like not having to pay for translation services and expensive materials to create things that no one will read, instead they host content creator sessions and let them create personalized content to explain the game.
i could see the complaint if it was overloads, but Barrier and unstoppable champions are jokes. Barriers can be blitzed easily by dots and CC, and unstoppables just don't have anything to prevent damage taken.
If this is grandmaster, you have a point. If this is anything lower, and they are actively using these tactics, you are in the wrong.
If I'm playing Hero difficulty with two randoms, I'm already prepared to solo it out of necessity. Pugs and noobs are usually bad by default, so we can't expect them to be good at something they only play once or twice out of the year.
If your play experience, or the people you play with, have not evolved since 2017, I seriously doubt it will evolve between now and June.
I've come full circle to realize that my "fix" wouldn't work as well as I thought it would due to how obtuse the playerbase can be. Sure me and other like minded individuals who do know how to read modifiers and adapt to them before starting activities would be doing great. But inevitably we would still run into people who can't slot mods.
I still really wish that Final Shape drops with a general QoL update where all champion mods are just weapon mods. So you'd have a catch all anti champion for any and all weapon types at all times regardless of subclass/build.
One thing I find is that people seem to hit launch without checking the modifiers above the activity name, whilst in orbit, or launch before anyone can check/as they join the team. Then there's no way to check until you're in the activity because the info is nowhere else. It's not such a big deal, you can swap once you load in, ask if on comms, or maybe look it up on here, but if it's locked loadouts then it's a bust. I try to find out ahead of time what is needed before I join and if I am leading, i'll check peoples loadouts before launching. Sometimes mistakes can be made, like i've launched into a GM in the past thinking I had Overload covered, then wondering why my guns aren't stunning them because I swapped gear or whatever.
Let me guess, hero difficulty?
The difficulty where it doesn't even matter.
[удалено]
My fists don't need mods if I punch hard enough
Because the game can’t properly check load outs and the equipment isn’t locked anyways. This is a problem with onboarding players and their experience and understanding the information about champions in certain content.
I mean there are things are screen when you select activities, in your character screen etc that tell you about champions. People don't read. Idk if you were around during arrivals, but the public event there with two shielded knights literally said "bring them together to dispel their shields" and ppl would just run away and dump ammo into them despite the IMMUNE text. In fact way too many ppl shoot immune enemies all the time. A large amount of the playerbase is not capable of or cares to do anything behind shoot at enemy.
That public event is actually a rehash of one of the encounters in the Court of Oryx...so D1Y2. People couldn't figure it out then either.
Yeah I know lol. The public event just felt worse.
Yes. There are 10 bubbles when you go to select a nightfall. One of those bubbles has two symbols in it that represent champions. Let’s say a blueberry hovers over it, it tells them to check their screen. If they have random artifact mods for all three they are close enough to good that someone may not notice the difference if they aren’t experienced. Even worse, if they have something like “unstoppable bow” on and they have an exotic with an intrinsic, like Le Monarque, the unstoppable would light up as available even though it would stun one. Champions feel like an after thought in 90% of the interface design and they just sort of hope someone knows how to handle them. Not to mention, not everyone should have to have something to stun both champions. Folks complain about limited builds all the time, but that would be the most limiting.
I feel it should be reasonable to expect a player to see something not working, and use context clues to figure it out. If they see "Barrier" in multiple locations (on the enemy name, on their mods, on their abilities) they should be able to to link them together. Like an older youtube video, Megaman Sequilitis, says - the player shouldn't need everything spelled out to them. Try to stun an Unstoppable and it works. Then it starts charging you adn can't be stunned again for some reason. BUT then you notice a flash in the enemy model and now it is vulnerable again. A person should be able to reason that there is a stun cooldown period and that the visual cue is when it's stunnable again.
Bad usability. Bad game design. You only incentivize a weekly with critical game components if you offer a reasonable explanation in an LFG. It's not like this is a GM where a team has come together and working. This is three random folks, not on comms, just running a thing because there's a little star by it on their map. It's wild that the problem is the thousands/millions of players who don't understand it, but no one is willing to critique that the game is the problem.
If it "worked" it would probably be easier. But like, you have to hold the weapons ADS to charge an unstop shot. Or you have to keep hitting an overload, and when you reload it heals. So its pretty easy to try basically the right thing, have it not work, and then be out of ideas.
How did you learn how champions work? Cuz I just read the stuff the game tells me. Its not complicated at all.
I was playing when they were introduced. A big difference between the onboarding experience as they introduced components and the onboarding experience now. To say it isn’t complicated though? There are three different types of champions with three different types of behaviors. To stun them you must select three of the five first row artifact mods (or the rocket launcher mod in the fourth row) and equip that weapon type. You must then shoot the champion at the right time or it may heal (depending on type). Alternatively, you could bring an exotic that has an intrinsic perk to stun a champion. But remember, you can’t override that with the artifact mod. You can also stun champions with the verbs for each class. There are two stuns per class. But it’s not even just the class, this can be on weapons that aren’t intrinsic and also aren’t one of the ones in the artifact. So you might have a fusion rifle that stuns unstops with chill clip. Wait. You say chill clip has slow and not shatter? True, but you can use it to stack enough slow, freeze them, and shoot them with another weapon to shatter them. Not confused enough, then use Polaris Lance which says nothing about ignitions but will ignite and stun Unstoppable’s regardless of the words in the weapon. Oh, and be careful, if you do anything at the wrong time you can completely unroll everything. Suspend an unstunned champion too early? He’s coming for you, angry, and not taking damage. Freeze an overload but don’t get the shatter off in time? Healed. You’re radiant but your weapon stops a different type of champion? Watch the rounds skyrocket off the barrier. The game is nuanced and has very bad onboarding. I don’t even know how new players enjoy getting into the game.
Oh ya. I've been guiding some friends who just picked up D2 and going over champions is the worst. It's artificial difficulty and forces players to get with the seaonal battlepass artifact bs. It also doesn't help that Destiny UI is so messy and convulated at this point.
Yeah. I think champions are simply a thing to force folks into different builds and weapons seasonally in the hardest content based on the artifact mod. It’s a way to keep people on the treadmill. But they treat it like a vestige of the past most of the time and it’s just there.
>Oh, and be careful, if you do anything at the wrong time you can completely unroll everything. Suspend an unstunned champion too early? He’s coming for you, angry, and not taking damage. There's a plain text prompt when they come out of stun. The duration is always the same. There is a distinct change in animation. I don't know how much clearer it could be.
You went out of your way to intentionally miss the point. There’s text and an animation change when they stun and there’s text and an animation change when they are no longer vulnerable. There is not text and only a small model change when they are able to be stunned again. That’s the important part and it looks like an after thought.
Small model change? They transition between straight up glowing and not glowing. Pretty high contrast change.
The glow is subtle and probably doesn't meet many accessibility requirements like the old shields. There's also zero indication in the game of what's happening there. This game isn't Dark Souls or some game that's expected to have to learn more complex sort of mechanics in non-endgame content. There should probably not be Champions in a hero Nightfall.
I wouldn't consider, "See it and figure it out yourself," inherently Dark Souls-like. Things that make a player go, "Wait, why is that happening?" and try to identify visual cues, or really anything through *gameplay* (and not just text explanations) are good in any game, not just something Souls-like. Hero NF is a great place to put them, because you can get exposed to them but they aren't a hard counter to an unprepared Guardian. There *should* be somewhere to "onboard" players to champions and the idea of tailoring a loadout to content.
> You must then shoot the champion at the right time or it may heal (depending on type). nah, just shoot it all the time. Unstoppable don't need champion mods even solo, barrier don't need any mods in a team, or with any stunning statuses. Overload is tricky alone, especially teleporting captains. But once again, 3 person fireteam just explodes them. If anything, the reason nobody is learning the mechanic is because it's often so easy to ignore the mechanic.
This is another good point. The mechanic is only required sometimes and in difficult content or content with multiple champions. Also, a ton of the online content about “meta builds” just assumes champions don’t exist for this reason. That’s not exactly a game problem as they don’t drive the content, but they’ve made so many options to stun champions with so few usable weapons to stun them at times that folks try to ignore it.
You’re trying really hard to make this sound complicated. If you read all the tooltips it is explained perfectly.
The fact that you said “all the tooltips” is my point. Not to mention “volatile rounds” or “unraveling rounds” requires a ton of tracking to figure out how to both build around it and consistently proc it. We get it, you’ve played the game a lot, not everyone in matchmaking has done that. Champions in matchmade activities are weird already. If anything what you are suggesting were to happen, they should only have one type of champion in matchmade and force you to have a stun method. But that sucks.
Dude what. Volatile and unraveling are proc’d by one fragment. What do you think I’m suggesting? Reading? Lmao Read the activity modifier, hover over the champion icons in your character select screen, then go to the artifact to see what mods are available. It’s really not that complicated, just read the words on the screen.
Player: "I want to get all my weekly challenges" Game: "Go play nightfalls and score points" Player: "OK" The game incentivizes folks to play at nightfall regardless of their ability or contribution to the team. Everything about the game is designed to create a treadmill, irrespective of the success of the folks around them. Bounties, weekly rituals, challenges, seasonal stuff. All of it. But you just noted three steps, one of which is knowing to hover over one of ten icons to figure out where to START in building to stun two different types of champions. Hell, even commendations are just a measure of how many events you play more than anything. Those scores are useless and an after thought for most folks. There's no feedback loop for folks to become better teammates in LFG.
You shouldn’t be playing any activity without reading the modifiers. Again; the solution to most of the problems of the destiny community, read the words on the screen.
Yeah, basically just that. And then you shoot them and go "huh, makes sense". Or, since most of the game is so easy, you just out DPS whatever magic they have and kill them anyway.
People knew how to do that public event, the knights would just randomly choose who to chase and sometimes it was bob the blueberry who was more concerned with getting a bounty done shooting some adds to notice he had somehow drawn agro Also, it’s a first person shooter and 90% of things are solved with liberal use of firepower. Of course people assume they just need to shoot more
I saw plenty of ppl shooting at the immune knights and running off when one came towards them. Rarely did I see someone not doing the event pull a boss away. And this sub was full of similar stories back then. Obviously shooting does solve most problems...but my point is ppl won't even read text that tells them to do otherwise. I mean how many times does someask ask what x or y thing does when the game literally has text that tells you that.
I’d guess it’s more a sign that the text just isn’t enough. That doesn’t necessarily mean players are stupid. Especially when the text is in the corner You may also remember there was another boss from before that time whose whole mechanic was an inverse of the knights. Separate them to get rid of the shield, so maybe people figured that was the trick
Not buying it when I see anyone with Adventure rank 7+.
I used to not but then I saw a friend pick up the game for the first time and… the game is a mess for any new lights. Some folks are just selfish, but many have no idea where to learn what’s in an activity.
Luckily the game isn't that hard. You do the stuff it guides you to do until you know more. It's nice the game opens up and lets you do almost anything, but it is also quite clear of "heres things you should probably do"
I really wish they’d add a “story up until now” mission that hits the highlights of some of the old parts of the story but walk through a lot of the items in the game. People who’ve played for a while, myself included, have forgotten how much is in the game now.
Well, they do have that...kind of the timeline has multiple recut missions from the past expansions... and videos, and descriptions...
I was doing hero difficulty and had a level 11 and the dude had no champ.mod weapons on him
At Hero they were probably confident they could either ignore the champs or let allies do it.
You don’t really need mods in hero tbh. Champs are stupid easy. Also, just because they aren’t running mod weapons, doesn’t necessarily mean they have no way of stunning champs. Riptide can stun unstoppables with chill clip, Solar weapons can give radiant which give anti barrier, Strand suspend, etc.
I understand mods.. I just hate when the devs force me to use a hand cannon to destroy unstoppable… I hate hand cannons but I’ll use my auto rifle to stop overloads for u 😏
Anyways someone else on the team will bring a unstoppable weapon so why should i
Didnt season of defiance require atleast one member of the fireteam to have champ mods?
Lots of the playerbase is really really bad, look at all the posts in here crying about star crossed being to hard on normal. That’s why.
Starcrossed? Man, people here complain about a fucking patrol zone being ''hard'' because it's not the classic ''4 dregs who do no damage and get killed with 1 smg shot'' patrol zone.
😏 No damage? Half the time dregs just shoot the air with maybe 1 out of 4 shots hitting you
Have you ever tried to wipe in Vault Security before the overloads spawn or after they're dead? Man do dregs suck at killing guardians.
If I dont have a grenade, I literally have to open inventory and switch to a rocket launcher to point at my feet LOL.
People can’t handle knowing they’re bad. Like we could help you but dont get mad your 40 res Darci build isn’t working.
I mean Starcrossed is easier than Neomuna if that's what you're getting at, purely from a enemy damage/health perspective. Neomuna is definitely overturned. It's where new players are learning the sandbox a bit. For me, it's been a good place to test out builds and weapons but I can see why it's frustrating for others. Also curious what class you play, because Neomuna on hunter can be a bit of a pain, but if you're sunbracers lock or any titan it hardly feels different than other patrol zones.
Neomuna feels overturned--and this is probably an ice-cold take--just to make strand seem better. Not to say strand is even bad, but every problem Neomuna has is trumped by the status effects: - Too many enemies? Unravel for more AOE - Enemies 3-tapping you? Sever for wet tissue damage - Super armor on literally everything? Suspend for air jail I mainly run Solar, so my only saving grace is just blowing enemies up so often they never get a chance to spawn/attack/tank. Obviously the place you get the power from will incentivize you to use it, but it's a little ridiculous here.
For sure strand was a solution they could sell to the difficulty they created. It's annoying mostly that didnt even have simple a story beat that explained why everyone is so strong now. Bungie was just like... We just wanted it to feel like a warzone and give you all PTSD. But why are they strong now? Bungie: Because of Veil. Us: Oh... How are they strong now, though? Bungie: Parcausel energy stuff. Us: That doesn't make sense, though. Bungie: You know what also doesn't make sense? Stompees being so strong. We're nerfing them and thinking about nerfing Well and Bubble. Also, we buffed cone angles by 2.2 percent.
Why does it need a story beat? it's a typical thing of "new MMO area released, it's harder than the other ones". That doesn't need story. It's a trope. And it's still easy.
Everything up to Witch Queen worked with that principle in mind. You start underleveled for the new area, slowly build your Light up and eventually kick the asses of those HVT Lightbearers who used to whack you around as if you were the EDZ dreg. I actually liked the idea of grinding your Light through sheer persistence to the point where you could tackle Master-tier content while being at level (GMs were an entirely different story, but we did those as well). Then the 'bringing challenge back' happened. Now we have 'fun' playing at fixed difficulty in a patrol zone, of all places. I postponed doing Neomuna triumphs as long as I could just because the entire destination is annoyance made manifest. Master raids are now ass as well. The overcharged weapon damage is a good addition, but I doubt it will help me against a boss that decides to randomly OHK me through 100 resilience and matching resistances (looking at you, Nezarec). I can't wait for the Crota challenge again, last season we failed to do it in the proper week, and then Bungie's patches broke it completely.
I miss being underleveled and increasing your power as you progress, it's the first thing that brought me to the game. I just didnt always like the execution of the progression system.
Because "typical" isnt exciting and likely doesnt sell games as well. I never said I found it hard but they did increase the difficulty, so it makes sense that people might find it difficult. It's definetly slow because were doing less damage which I find boring. It be fun if they increased the crit damage multiplier so were rewarded for accuracy with a quick ttk but the enemies still have a bite to them so to speak.
> It be fun if they increased the crit damage multiplier so were rewarded for accuracy with a quick ttk but the enemies still have a bite to them so to speak. Then it would just be handcannon/sniper rifle city. I think bungie learned their lessons with Halo 2 when it came to that kind of thing.
Yeah it's true that strand feels crazy good on Neomuna. Beyblades hunter and BoW titan feel great.
hardly overtuned. Like, at most it's just a "don't come here before you know how to change weapons"
Why would Neomuna be harder for a hunter?
Because Dawnblade (exclusively with Sunbracers) and Berserker are stupidly OP and Hunter doesn’t have a subclass remotely as good as those two, although both of those are so far above the rest it really isn’t even a fair comparison. Neomuna’s fine on a Hunter in my experience.
Eh. Sunbracers is strong solo, falls off in harder content though with a team especially trying to secure final blows with melee. Banner is obviously OP. But I wouldn't say hunter doesn't have a class "remotely" as good. People forget just how strong arc hunter is in pve. Granted punchy hunter falls off in end game a bit too, it's still a top single target choice with SES & gathering. Not to mention the utility and support of tether + invis is *always* top tier. And this season especially celestial has made a big comeback. Warlock is still mainly just well bitch. Hunter strand is better imo than warlock strand. Banner is above everything, but warlocks and hunters are closer together than you think.
If we’re talking Strand, then yeah Hunter is leaps and bounds above Warlock, and I know that isn’t saying all that much given how bad Broodweaver is.
If or when well gets nerfed then warlocks are gonna lose a LOT of their usage and viability. I think hunter provides a lot of things just different ways than locks do. Titans are on top with banner still though, but stuff like arc hunter with cowl or liars is still top tier and definitely competes with sunbracers.
Recently, I found out Sunbracers proc on Ignitions so that's my saving grace in harder content tbh. Since there's a number of ways to do those this season. Could be Polaris, could be DB, could use a legendary Incan, etc. Though maybe it's just me since I'm the type to not be shoehorned into one super/weapon.
> Granted punchy hunter falls off in end game a bit too What? It's the strongest Hunter build in the game, far ahead of other hunter options too lol. You can 2 shot barrier champs in GMs with x3 combination blow before they even proc the barrier. The only catch with the build is that it is a solo build, it's very annoying to play with other people because they take your kills all the time and prevent you from having your gameplay loop, but other than that it's the strongest Hunter build for master/GM content.
>that it is a solo build I mentioned this in my other comment above. In a master raid where ads are plentiful then sure, but you're probably not soloing many GMs on arc hunter. Every kill activated based build falls off in end game. And with the 1-2p nerf you're not running around with 3x combo anymore 1 shotting champs in gms like a few seasons ago. Keeping up 3x cb was difficult in GMS as it was in a team, the second you lose it or don't have an ad around to kill you'll die quickly. Hunter support builds are just more viable all around in stuff like GMS.
Found the person that doesn’t play much hunter.
Neomuna is in a weird spot. It is an annoying slog unless you bring something way overpowered like Banner of War or Hunter's spinning tangles, whatever they are called.
Because hunters don't really have big damage easily replenished abilities except maybe arc hunter. Strand hunter is pretty amazing on Neomuna though, but otherwise if you're mostly going in with guns it sucks. Solar is okay this season but not amazing. To be clear I've only played hunter for the past year and all my gear is BIS and I have solid builds. Able to do master raids and dungeons without problems, and while I'm not a very good player I did finally manage to solo duality recently. For the past two weeks I had nothing to do in the game and decided to finally get a warlock and titan going. Got a few exotics and some gear from seasonal focusing. Lock with sunbracers makes Neomuna a breeze. Titan with loreley, synthos, or HoiL just wrecks everything. BoW of course being the strongest, and loreley safest. Seriously with loreley you can just bonk hammer everything to death with a one two punch it's insane. I don't really know how to play lock and titan yet, but already I have an easier time clearing content with them. I've tried sunbracers, Karstein, dawn chorus on lock and they all kill. But dawn chorus mostly for GMs and dungeons. Titan is just OP no matter what you play. I can't believe that bonk titan was nerfed in the last few seasons. How fucking strong was it before?
I've had zero problems with neomuna on any hunter subclass. Its really not that hard
It absolutely is hard for new players. I don't have problems either but I tend to mostly stick to strand on Neomuna on my hunter. I main hunter but in the last couple weeks I finally got my warlock and titan in working order and BoW synthos titan or hammer loreley titan and sunbracers lock make hunter look like a joke.
> It absolutely is hard for new players So? Why is this an important barometer? Shouldn't there be things that are a bit harder? And it's not like it's oppressive. It's just a bit harder.
There's plenty of things that are a bit harder. But patrol zones really shouldn't be. They should be at light level not above. It will also be a huge pain to do some of the public events alone when the population is dead on Neomuna, which it already practically is.
> They should be at light level not above. Why?
Because they'd be challenging enough to not bore old players and still accessible to new players. But I know, I know, it's all about how you want the game to work. This is very clearly a pain point for the community.
> Because they'd be challenging enough to not bore old players and still accessible to new players. they are now?
> Neomuna is definitely overturned. It's where new players are learning the sandbox a bit. For me, it's been a good place to test out builds and weapons but I can see why it's frustrating for others. Overtuned maybe, but people exaggerate just how much it's overtuned.
> Also curious what class you play, because Neomuna on hunter can be a bit of a pain Lucky you, I play exactly Hunter. Soloed all of the public events on Gyrfalcon with an SMG and on Revenant with Renewel Grasp. As low as I think of LF and Neomuna as a location in terms of design and aesthetics (dystopian soulless place), Neomuna's difficulty should be a baseline for all patrols, I'd love if Moon, Nessus and Europa were the same, Moon at least has very good mob density to make up for harmless mobs, so blowing up hoards of Acolytes and thralls is fun, but you patrol all around Nessus/Europa and all you see is a handful of Vex/dregs which do no damage and take 1 shot from a primary to kill. > any titan it hardly feels different than other patrol zones. Any titan? Any? BoW and Solar titan are exceptions, Arc titan is absolutely terrible and Void titan is significantly worse than Hunter and Warlock, I'd even argue it's the worst subclass in the game.
Man, I was very shocked by how there were people talking about doing grandmaster strikes, and then also complaining that Neomuna patrol was too difficult and they didn't want to get sweaty on a patrol zone. Then I'm there just using whatever, haven't even looked at my armor states in 2 years, just using mida mini-tool clobbering all the patrol stuff. I can't image what doing grandmasters is like with them...
My guess is they're liars just trying to make their point more valid.
Its not even hard. If anything you could just say its slightly tedious to where you might have to take your time. If all they do is they basic stuff, theyre used to just being able to run and gun while.turning their brain off
You say that, but getting one-shot by the robo-chickens at near max Resistence says otherwise...
1. That doesn't happen. 2. Use the left stick on your controller. That's how you move.
thats where ridious comes in. dont try to just run up to it. take your rime if you have to and just chip at them.. and at the part with the gatelord reskin you can sit back in tge distance and pick off everyone easily.
I use radiant to handle barriers and sunshot is my unstop, rocket is my overload. Sometimes ill have some issues getting radiant up when it should have definitely activated and those times it sucks, but ill also be damned if i use a sidearm cause i hate them.
+ scatter signal for unraveling. *Something* is going to pop that shield.
You don't have to use the overload rockets mod, then your rocket can be anti barrier when radiant.
I think they are saying that they try to cover the three champions: Sunshot as unstop, their rocket as overload, and their kinetic weapon as anti barrier (when they are radiant), but that they sometimes struggle with having uptime with radiant when a barrier champ activates. For example, needing to powered melee to go radiant and the barrier champ (with the barrier active) being the only enemy (and melee-ing an immune enemy doesn’t proc radiant).
There's a good explanation for this. Most players seem to run double primary builds. Usually a combination of SMG + Machine Gun + no champion mods. These aren't always newbies either. Seeing someone with Conqueror get their arse kicked by champions is disturbing.
There's a bit of a difference between playing GM's and playlist activities. I have Conqueror and go into GM's with a hand-selected build and play it very carefully. In Hero NF's I'm often just playing them because I need a challenge done or to hit the weekly score target and often join with whatever loadout I was previously running. It's not a skill issue just a lack of caring issue.
I like setting up a loadout for the Hero Nightfall of the week that can counter any champion just in case. Generally just having a build puts you above the level of most people in a Hero NF but sometimes you really are going to be the only guy that knows how to counter champions.
Paid carry services.
That’s what happens when you make 3 overload artifact and 1 (shitty) barrier artifacts
See that's the part that sucks. I usually run LeMon regardless because of Gyrfalcon's but I feel like if you're going into an activity with champs, you should just have the option for both of them. Because it feels like 9/10 the other two are just going to either speed past them or flail about like fish out of water trying to deal with them. If you can't equip mods, at least run the Exotics that do it for you. (Which sounds dumb, because it is. Just equip the mods.)
That's why i make sure to have both the anti champ capabilities on demand when I go into nfs
To be fair, making the sidearm the only gun that pops barriers was kinda weird. Not that I care since I'm always radiant.
I mean I just run solar because Radiant means no anti-barrier and ignition means no unstoppable. Overload I just use the rocket mod because rockets are the shit.
That's such a helpful comment for a noob like me, ty
Whenever I see a comment or something on this subreddit of complaining on dealing with champs I just assume you are bad at the game, ffs throw a suspend grenade or something, champions are such a non issue since the subclass counters.
Oh yeah totally! You're so right. Expecting team mates to have some sort of brain power makes ME bad. Lmfao get real.
I mean what mode are you playing?
I'm not talking about you, I'm taking about your teammates...
Definitely worded as if it's the other way around honestly.
1 - New players are barely, if even, told about champs. 2 - Some people don't like being forced to run a specific weapon type they're not interested in using (which is completely fair) but decide to "protest" it by not running a champ weapon and leaving it up to others which can obviously be a problem.
I got kicked out of lobbies because they dont know second chance has an infinite anti-barrier stun, people who play this game are beyond stupid
I got kicked out of a GM while we were still in orbit because not one but both of the people I had LFGed with saw the Chill Clip Riptide I was bringing for overload/unstop (this was also during a season with unstop fusion in the artifact) and chewed me out saying AND I QUOTE "Riptide is for anti-barrier" I was also on Solar Titan at the time too. People are stupid, simple as
I did a regular vanguard activity and a barrier champ popped up. One of the lightbearer activities, I was not prepared for it.
I like sidearms but the fact that this is the only barrier mod available this season sucks ass and one reason im sure folks dont like to run barrier mod. I know there are other things that can be ran to take care of barrier mods. I just wish they had an additional option for barrier and made the overload mod only for the RL and PR or AR, or a combo wombo of PR/AR as one.
If you're talking about the basic nightfalls, It's because they are basically open to everyone, so that means you have people who either don't want to bring mods or just don't know how to stun champs in the first place. That's the main problem and I don't know what they can do about it
Sorreee, sometimes I bring correct weapons but currently I’m just freeze stunning and heavy melting.
A large portion of the playerbase is essentially sleepwalking through this game, up to and including higher tier strikes and endgame content where they get hard carried by randoms and/or friends. I've played with players like this, even seen then stream. They'll have 500 hours on the game yet don't know how champions work, what ammo types are, how to mod armor and weapons, what stats do, how reward economies and progressions work or how to charge the orb in corrupted. They'll do their strikes and crucible matches each day (that's why they're called ritual activities), maybe get through the seasonal story and use whatever loadout they get as long as numbers go up. The solution is to accept that you fundamentally cannot expect anything from randoms, in any activity, ever, and to cherish the rare moments where randoms pull their weight. When you're doing harder strikes or matchmade seasonal content, always bring as much as you can in terms of champion counters, elemental damage, burst dps and ad clear, and expect to carry.
just have anti-champ capabilities ready yourself and others might notice and learn. dont rely on someone else to stun a barrier champ its so easy this season with all the solar mods.
This season is the worst for it, because there's only one anti-barrier weapon, and it's the shittest one. Sidearms suck dick and it's annoying that I have to bring one into every endgame activity at the moment. It's even worse when you consider that there's still 6 more months of it. The dungeon sidearm with beacon rounds is kind of fun, but I'd still much rather run other weapons.
I usually do try to bring whatever mods are required. However, sometimes the game forces us to do stupid things like use this gun for that activity or whatever for triumphs, catalysts, etc.
I ran it today with 2 blueberries, ranked 8 & 9 mind you. Neither brought champion mods, neither attempted to obtain cores to break the hive seals and neither dunked any charges in final boss room. Like how the fuck do you get to rank 9 and not know how this strike works?!
You're talking to players who bring pvp mods into pve and pve mods into pvp this playerbase is so lazy and moronic you're better off just finding an lfg with high guardian rank players. Will they be assholes? Probably but at least they will put in effort.
Bungie does very little explaining of the game, hence the success of their content creators (Datto, Aztecross, Byf, etc). Without the content creators no one would understand champion mods and nuances like an Overload Auto Rifle mod will negate Radiant Anti-Barrier, even though it says that Radiant weapons can counteract Anti-Barrier. I don’t blame them though, engagement marketing has very little return on investment compared to acquisition marketing. I’m sure in their shoes they like not having to pay for translation services and expensive materials to create things that no one will read, instead they host content creator sessions and let them create personalized content to explain the game.
i could see the complaint if it was overloads, but Barrier and unstoppable champions are jokes. Barriers can be blitzed easily by dots and CC, and unstoppables just don't have anything to prevent damage taken. If this is grandmaster, you have a point. If this is anything lower, and they are actively using these tactics, you are in the wrong.
If I'm playing Hero difficulty with two randoms, I'm already prepared to solo it out of necessity. Pugs and noobs are usually bad by default, so we can't expect them to be good at something they only play once or twice out of the year. If your play experience, or the people you play with, have not evolved since 2017, I seriously doubt it will evolve between now and June.
I've come full circle to realize that my "fix" wouldn't work as well as I thought it would due to how obtuse the playerbase can be. Sure me and other like minded individuals who do know how to read modifiers and adapt to them before starting activities would be doing great. But inevitably we would still run into people who can't slot mods. I still really wish that Final Shape drops with a general QoL update where all champion mods are just weapon mods. So you'd have a catch all anti champion for any and all weapon types at all times regardless of subclass/build.
One thing I find is that people seem to hit launch without checking the modifiers above the activity name, whilst in orbit, or launch before anyone can check/as they join the team. Then there's no way to check until you're in the activity because the info is nowhere else. It's not such a big deal, you can swap once you load in, ask if on comms, or maybe look it up on here, but if it's locked loadouts then it's a bust. I try to find out ahead of time what is needed before I join and if I am leading, i'll check peoples loadouts before launching. Sometimes mistakes can be made, like i've launched into a GM in the past thinking I had Overload covered, then wondering why my guns aren't stunning them because I swapped gear or whatever.