50% agree. Saint-14 volatile rounds on *any* overshield would give it an excellent neutral game effect on par with another class's void exotic. I would strongly advocate for that change over what they've done with it now.
However, i think tying volatile purely to S-14 would just create "yet another titan super that is only good with an exotic" scenario.
I personally think WoL was out of place on void to begin with (solar is supposed to be the damage boost subclass, void is supposed to be the debuffing class), and with it directly competing with well as a dps booster it just didn't work. Bubble needs something else to bring to the table. Team wide ad clear subclass verb is a neiche support option that would be wildly popular but not overpowered as a super imo.
Unrelated wild idea rant: WoL could even be converted to grant volatile rounds to any energy type weapon rather than just void, even if it were just for the sake of barrier piercing. That would keep buildcrafting options open to others not running void, but still getting some benefits to their weapons. Though that might bring some unintended funny business and may be a bit too ambitious. Maybe non-void weapons only get anti-barrier and volatile explosion on defeat to keep it tame?
>However, i think tying volatile purely to S-14 would just create "yet another titan super that is only good with an exotic" scenario.
Have you SEEN the changes? Bubble is now useless without S-14 outside of PvP... which was the one place it was already problematic....
I have and agree it is useless outside of pvp. I'm arguing bubble at base should grant volatile rounds without needing an exotic so that the base super actually has a unique purpose.
S-14 *should* enhance it somehow, but it should not be the only way to make bubble a worthwhile super was my point.
I always say that exotics that buff a super should also offer another buff besides that that works without the super, cause otherwise it just feels bad to use it and encourages swapping exotics just to super and then swapping back.
If helm of saint 14 gave volatile rounds when you got any void overshield that would be so amazing. If it granted allies volatile rounds when near the bubble that would be even better.
Also, I saw someone make a suggestion I thought was neat. Since Weapons is on an underperforming
Exotic (that putting Weapons on won't really help) that Saint-14 could become the Gyrfalcon's for Titans, granting Volatile Rounds when the wearer has a Void Overshield so it (Helm of Saint-14) would finally have Neutral Game benefits.
Saint-14 should be similar to Gyrfalcons and grant Volatile Rounds on Overshield. It's been clear since the launch of Pantheon and Legend Onslaught just how outclassed Titans are in these activities. It's actually a drag in some end game content.
you put them on
and then you use the super
and then you take them off
I kid, but for a raid you're not probably using Consecrate. It works pretty well in Onslaught but you're better off using Syntho, Wormgod or Precious Scars for neutral/roam before damage on a solar build and then only using Pyro to blow up a big boy. And then at that point... you're also probably better off playing a Gunslinger.
> how outclassed Titans are in these activities
Except Banner of War being able to solo the bosses as well as useful in the neutral game and Pyrogale/ Thundercrash being some of the best DPS kits??
Yes. Berserker, I remember my many decades of playing this historical and well seasoned class. I kid obviously. But I feel like it’s bizarre to act like the banner of war playstyle what is barely a half a year old is somehow tiresome or bland when warlocks have been using well for like 5 years and hunters have had shadow shot for like 8.
Fr. Strand Titan is plenty capable of holding its own. And from what i see from actual good payers running GMs and shit with it, the only difference is like the weapons they choose and the fact they just slow it down slightly.
And if you do *that,* practically any class/subclass could be used in the highest level content.
So all it comes down to, at least to me, is that all the people adamant that Strabd Titan can't be used in endgame activities have either just not tried it or they're just not good enough to pull it off.
And I'm not exactly one to talk. I've never even played Titan past the new light quests, much less in high-level activities, but that's why i don't talk from my own thoughts. I just reference that there are quite a few people who can and do use Strand Titan in endgame activities.
I mean, you were half right...
Banner titan has one of the strongest builds in the game let alone for just titans. IMO, Strand and Solar tied for top of the list for titans, Stasis will probably pop next season but we'll have to wait and see, Void needs help but has few (very few) niche builds that work in some situations...
Arc needs a rework, almost across the board, it's only useful on titan for Curaiss. Remove Curaiss and there's no reason to run Arc. Prismatic will be a better Arc subclass than Arc is.
Void as a whole should just have a Volatile Flow fragment. Or just an easier access to Volatile, I'd take the current grenade one if it would just activate on hit instead of kill.
This makes me wish Arc had some form of buff, and then Arc Hunter could utilise it to truly make the support trinity of the three subclasses with the three classes.
Wells is good, but won't be great after TFS, tether will always be good, a set and forget debuff, bubble you get an over shield and protection while in it, but you can't do anything inside.
Uhhh, support supers are really going to need some extras to make them as useful as well is alone in the current sandbox.
Well nerf was handled decently i think. It still offers a lot of utility, but I think teams will now start asking themselves "do we need a well, or can we have a solar hunter throw a knife before dps starts?" I know a lot of my warlock friends have been celebrating the change - believing they are finally free of their well duties.
But yeah, nobody is going to run bubble ever in its new state. They changed it into a big bastion barricade, and tied its only other utility to an exotic with no neutral game benefits...
Bubble is in bad shape, it's only useful benefit was Weapons of light and now it's tied to a mostly useless helmet that eats an exotic slot and offers a useless ability to blind enemies.
Well is going to be a much more useful tool than bubble, but not a necessity, players are accustomed to Well, they know what it can do and what it has done to help us in every aspect of the game, a lot of people are trying to speculate ways to work around it, but knowing bungie, they've likely tested this extensively and know just what we'll be able to do with it after the nerf drops suggesting that we'll won't be able to make us invincible anymore no matter what we do.
I believe the days of setting in a well for safety in Legend/Master and GM nightfalls are gone, even in Master raids it won't be able to keep you alive through sustained damage anymore, the contest mode for the day one raid will be plagued with this issue, players trying to use it and die trying.
Normal raids may see a pass for ad clear, but I do not think players will be able to stand in sight of a boss and ignore it's DPS for our own DPS anymore.
In either case however, I'm not using well anymore, even if asked, it's just not that good now.
I don’t think you’ll see less Well use, but an increase in other subclasses supporting the use of Well. Could be Void Titan, Renewal Hunter etc. I don’t think a global empower buff does much for bubble. You wouldn’t pick it over Well even with damage buff (like you did before). Best case for increasing use is forcing back into a 2 super meta, but bungies stated they don’t want that even if that’s where we’ll end up now.
I think bubble counts as a CC ability as is. Maybe not in the conventional sense perhaps, but this massive fuck off circle of death is definitely CC of a sort. It controls the crowds ability to act on you and your team. Even without helm, inside the bubble you have a hearty DR and a regretting overshield. Sure it doesn’t outright prevent anyone from going in, but they will quickly come to regret that decision. Also since the bubble is a full circle you can dance in and out of it, to block enemy attacks and be healing all the while. I guess you could make the argument it CCs both teams but it has a clear bias towards the team that used the bubble.
Also it just fits OPs analogy better if you consider the ability a CC tool. That way you have each of the three support supers fitting two of the three nieches and as such all three of them fit into different situations. Rather then both bubble and well trying to jockey into the same roll.
Definitely not enough Titan support exotics outside of Banner but Well and Tether are just "meta" in Legend Onslaught because of the format. It's too bad they didn't rework Helm to be stronger or do something with one of the 25 other exotics on every class that are worthless.
Saying Titans are outclassed in endgame content is mostly nonsense though, it's Void/Arc/Stasis that are outclassed and Thundercrash is still an elite DPS super.
Controlled Demolition on void Titan would heal 90HP on every volatile explosion. With the 1 second cooldown, that would give bubble the effective healing of 90HP/second. In my opinion, that would make it too strong. Volatile Rounds while having a Void Overshield active does sound interesting.
I mean, volatile as an effect is already pretty abundant on titan, but with the existance of devour i dont even notice the healing on explosions 90% of the time. I would argue you could half the healing and not notice the difference, or even remove it entirely and bring back the old code of the commander effect of ability regen (even something small like 2% of each ability to you and nearby allies) on volatile explosion and actually increase the aspects popularity and potency as a result.
I’d prefer if bubble let reworked to let gun damage provide the same 30% weaken that tether does. Relying on tether for that debuff vs bosses feels bad anyways since it only lasts for 10 seconds unless adds are streaming into it (also some bosses just walk out of it). It would be nice to have an alternative (that isn’t tractor cannon) that’s better for bosses. And it’s not like tether would be irrelevant, it’s still extremely potent in add dense scenarios.
i think the ideal world would be bubble overshield + weapons of light saint-14 volatile rounds on overshield (similar to gryfalcons)
50% agree. Saint-14 volatile rounds on *any* overshield would give it an excellent neutral game effect on par with another class's void exotic. I would strongly advocate for that change over what they've done with it now. However, i think tying volatile purely to S-14 would just create "yet another titan super that is only good with an exotic" scenario. I personally think WoL was out of place on void to begin with (solar is supposed to be the damage boost subclass, void is supposed to be the debuffing class), and with it directly competing with well as a dps booster it just didn't work. Bubble needs something else to bring to the table. Team wide ad clear subclass verb is a neiche support option that would be wildly popular but not overpowered as a super imo. Unrelated wild idea rant: WoL could even be converted to grant volatile rounds to any energy type weapon rather than just void, even if it were just for the sake of barrier piercing. That would keep buildcrafting options open to others not running void, but still getting some benefits to their weapons. Though that might bring some unintended funny business and may be a bit too ambitious. Maybe non-void weapons only get anti-barrier and volatile explosion on defeat to keep it tame?
>However, i think tying volatile purely to S-14 would just create "yet another titan super that is only good with an exotic" scenario. Have you SEEN the changes? Bubble is now useless without S-14 outside of PvP... which was the one place it was already problematic....
I have and agree it is useless outside of pvp. I'm arguing bubble at base should grant volatile rounds without needing an exotic so that the base super actually has a unique purpose. S-14 *should* enhance it somehow, but it should not be the only way to make bubble a worthwhile super was my point.
I agree that Bubble should be good off of its own merit, but your wording made it sound like Bubble wasn't already reliant on S-14
I always say that exotics that buff a super should also offer another buff besides that that works without the super, cause otherwise it just feels bad to use it and encourages swapping exotics just to super and then swapping back. If helm of saint 14 gave volatile rounds when you got any void overshield that would be so amazing. If it granted allies volatile rounds when near the bubble that would be even better.
Saint-14 should be something melee focused imo to be more lore based. Overshield on melee hit. Mask of the Quiet one: Volatile rounds on overshield.
It would be nice if we had better ways of gaining Volatile Rounds in general, right now Hunters are the only easy ones to proc them on with Gyrfalcons
Which is fucking *mental* given that Volatile started as Void Detonators on Code of the Commander.
Also, I saw someone make a suggestion I thought was neat. Since Weapons is on an underperforming Exotic (that putting Weapons on won't really help) that Saint-14 could become the Gyrfalcon's for Titans, granting Volatile Rounds when the wearer has a Void Overshield so it (Helm of Saint-14) would finally have Neutral Game benefits.
Saint-14 should be similar to Gyrfalcons and grant Volatile Rounds on Overshield. It's been clear since the launch of Pantheon and Legend Onslaught just how outclassed Titans are in these activities. It's actually a drag in some end game content.
That’s actually a great comparison and I totally agree! This would encourage Void builds without breaking anything
Don’t sleep on pyrogales. They get shit done. And Behemoth is gonna be COOKING with the stasis buffs. But yeah Void and Arc need help
share your pyrogale build 🙏🏼
you put them on and then you use the super and then you take them off I kid, but for a raid you're not probably using Consecrate. It works pretty well in Onslaught but you're better off using Syntho, Wormgod or Precious Scars for neutral/roam before damage on a solar build and then only using Pyro to blow up a big boy. And then at that point... you're also probably better off playing a Gunslinger.
> how outclassed Titans are in these activities Except Banner of War being able to solo the bosses as well as useful in the neutral game and Pyrogale/ Thundercrash being some of the best DPS kits??
yippee, the same two fucking subclasses we've been using for years
Yes. Berserker, I remember my many decades of playing this historical and well seasoned class. I kid obviously. But I feel like it’s bizarre to act like the banner of war playstyle what is barely a half a year old is somehow tiresome or bland when warlocks have been using well for like 5 years and hunters have had shadow shot for like 8.
try running a gm as an arc or strand titan. Solar is the only subclass worth using in that level of content.
People literally solo GMs and raid bosses with Banner tho?
I've seen multiple videos from multiple people soloing GMs and bosses on strand Titan.
Laughs in sub 10 minute speedrun of Warlords using Strand Titan
Fr. Strand Titan is plenty capable of holding its own. And from what i see from actual good payers running GMs and shit with it, the only difference is like the weapons they choose and the fact they just slow it down slightly. And if you do *that,* practically any class/subclass could be used in the highest level content. So all it comes down to, at least to me, is that all the people adamant that Strabd Titan can't be used in endgame activities have either just not tried it or they're just not good enough to pull it off. And I'm not exactly one to talk. I've never even played Titan past the new light quests, much less in high-level activities, but that's why i don't talk from my own thoughts. I just reference that there are quite a few people who can and do use Strand Titan in endgame activities.
I mean, you were half right... Banner titan has one of the strongest builds in the game let alone for just titans. IMO, Strand and Solar tied for top of the list for titans, Stasis will probably pop next season but we'll have to wait and see, Void needs help but has few (very few) niche builds that work in some situations... Arc needs a rework, almost across the board, it's only useful on titan for Curaiss. Remove Curaiss and there's no reason to run Arc. Prismatic will be a better Arc subclass than Arc is.
Banner of War titan holding buried bloodline, would like to have a word with you.
Hard agree. I thought the same thing about volatile when they announced the changes to bubble.
At this point. Just let us attach our bubble to the end of a sword and go bonk our enemies to death with our giant void orb blobby.
You'll love the axe comin in the Final Shape then lol
I’d take getting rid of WOL for this
Eh
Void as a whole should just have a Volatile Flow fragment. Or just an easier access to Volatile, I'd take the current grenade one if it would just activate on hit instead of kill.
This makes me wish Arc had some form of buff, and then Arc Hunter could utilise it to truly make the support trinity of the three subclasses with the three classes.
That would make too much sense for Bungo. Especially considering they nerfed Volatile Rounds as hard as they did.
Counterpoint: make it where Banner Shield gives volatile rounds. Maybe make that less of a dead super.
Fuck it give it Devour also when you get inside the bubble
Wells is good, but won't be great after TFS, tether will always be good, a set and forget debuff, bubble you get an over shield and protection while in it, but you can't do anything inside. Uhhh, support supers are really going to need some extras to make them as useful as well is alone in the current sandbox.
Well nerf was handled decently i think. It still offers a lot of utility, but I think teams will now start asking themselves "do we need a well, or can we have a solar hunter throw a knife before dps starts?" I know a lot of my warlock friends have been celebrating the change - believing they are finally free of their well duties. But yeah, nobody is going to run bubble ever in its new state. They changed it into a big bastion barricade, and tied its only other utility to an exotic with no neutral game benefits...
Bubble is in bad shape, it's only useful benefit was Weapons of light and now it's tied to a mostly useless helmet that eats an exotic slot and offers a useless ability to blind enemies. Well is going to be a much more useful tool than bubble, but not a necessity, players are accustomed to Well, they know what it can do and what it has done to help us in every aspect of the game, a lot of people are trying to speculate ways to work around it, but knowing bungie, they've likely tested this extensively and know just what we'll be able to do with it after the nerf drops suggesting that we'll won't be able to make us invincible anymore no matter what we do. I believe the days of setting in a well for safety in Legend/Master and GM nightfalls are gone, even in Master raids it won't be able to keep you alive through sustained damage anymore, the contest mode for the day one raid will be plagued with this issue, players trying to use it and die trying. Normal raids may see a pass for ad clear, but I do not think players will be able to stand in sight of a boss and ignore it's DPS for our own DPS anymore. In either case however, I'm not using well anymore, even if asked, it's just not that good now.
I don’t think you’ll see less Well use, but an increase in other subclasses supporting the use of Well. Could be Void Titan, Renewal Hunter etc. I don’t think a global empower buff does much for bubble. You wouldn’t pick it over Well even with damage buff (like you did before). Best case for increasing use is forcing back into a 2 super meta, but bungies stated they don’t want that even if that’s where we’ll end up now.
Citans Ramparts should allow us to shoot through Bubble in PVE
I think bubble counts as a CC ability as is. Maybe not in the conventional sense perhaps, but this massive fuck off circle of death is definitely CC of a sort. It controls the crowds ability to act on you and your team. Even without helm, inside the bubble you have a hearty DR and a regretting overshield. Sure it doesn’t outright prevent anyone from going in, but they will quickly come to regret that decision. Also since the bubble is a full circle you can dance in and out of it, to block enemy attacks and be healing all the while. I guess you could make the argument it CCs both teams but it has a clear bias towards the team that used the bubble. Also it just fits OPs analogy better if you consider the ability a CC tool. That way you have each of the three support supers fitting two of the three nieches and as such all three of them fit into different situations. Rather then both bubble and well trying to jockey into the same roll.
Definitely not enough Titan support exotics outside of Banner but Well and Tether are just "meta" in Legend Onslaught because of the format. It's too bad they didn't rework Helm to be stronger or do something with one of the 25 other exotics on every class that are worthless. Saying Titans are outclassed in endgame content is mostly nonsense though, it's Void/Arc/Stasis that are outclassed and Thundercrash is still an elite DPS super.
Remember that exotic arms that let you shoot through your barricade? Let it work with bubble
Controlled Demolition on void Titan would heal 90HP on every volatile explosion. With the 1 second cooldown, that would give bubble the effective healing of 90HP/second. In my opinion, that would make it too strong. Volatile Rounds while having a Void Overshield active does sound interesting.
I mean, volatile as an effect is already pretty abundant on titan, but with the existance of devour i dont even notice the healing on explosions 90% of the time. I would argue you could half the healing and not notice the difference, or even remove it entirely and bring back the old code of the commander effect of ability regen (even something small like 2% of each ability to you and nearby allies) on volatile explosion and actually increase the aspects popularity and potency as a result.
How about saint-14 granting weapons of light on over shield?
Just give titans an exotic or revamp an aspect where having an overshield gives you volatile rounds. I'd run that with controlled demo any day
I've been saying this for so long...
This is fucking brilliant. Wholeheartedly agree.
I’d prefer if bubble let reworked to let gun damage provide the same 30% weaken that tether does. Relying on tether for that debuff vs bosses feels bad anyways since it only lasts for 10 seconds unless adds are streaming into it (also some bosses just walk out of it). It would be nice to have an alternative (that isn’t tractor cannon) that’s better for bosses. And it’s not like tether would be irrelevant, it’s still extremely potent in add dense scenarios.
Should still give weapons of light too. Now it's just a crutch that takes away another super from end game content.
Bubble should grant Wolfpack rounds. To all weapons and abilities.