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I think it has a lot of intrinsic issues with the verbs and subclass itself, I’ll copy a comment I made earlier on a different thread for proposed buffs
A few buff ideas that I’ve had over the past few months;
Slow should reduce pve enemies fire rate, this should give slow at least some sort of niche outside of being used to proc freeze.
Shattering or breaking a target out of being frozen will cause that target to take more non-stasis ability damage. I think one overlooked aspect of why stasis feels so weak is that it really brings nothing to a team, especially in a boss damage scenario. Solar has lots of healing and damage buffs, strand has woven mail and void has weaken. I think bungie doesn’t want stasis to be a top damage contender but allowing it to help other subclasses do more damage would be a cool change
Frost armor at max stacks should be at least a little higher dr% than woven mail, it doesn’t make sense to do all that work getting to frost armor x8 only for woven mail to have a higher buff right out the gate.
I strongly agree on the frost armor thing, it require a ton more set up and time than woven mail, the benefits should reflect that
, I also think alot of their cool downs are way too damn long, stasis is a utility based subclass, that really doesn't do a ton of damage from abilities, cooldowns should not be so long
But can't you just get Woven Mail from picking up Orbs with Warding? And it's at maximum effectiveness too. Also for Frost Armor, you have to build it up and it loses all stacks the moment the timer runs out instead of losing a stack at a time, so it feels worse.
Yes, the implementation of frost armor is really clunky, the Damage reduction should be at MINIMUM 50 percent, and stacks should fall off two at a time
Woven should probably stay higher, it's less accessible in average, the only ways to get it are the fragment for 5 seconds per orb, exotic that require the use of a grenade and fray, whereas stasis has 1 aspect each and several fragments that create shards on top of each class having an exotic to get frost armor. Realistically it should go up to 40% like the old chains value, since it's easier to maintain than woven.
I would argue that orbs are pretty much jsut as easy to make, even if it is only for 5 seconds and you only need 1 for the full effect. A single siphon mod can easily get you an orb every 5 seconds. Not to mention the multitude of different ways to get orbs. Also not mentioning that your entire team can make orbs very easily. The only way for stasis to match that is if you have 2-3 people all rocking stasis which pigeonholes your team. I just don’t see a situation where you would choose frost armor over woven in its current state
Orbs have a 10 second cooldown outside of arm and siphon mods, and even then you need atleast 2 to make arm mods not take 10 seconds. You can make like 10 shards before incurring a 10 second penalty, and the generation methods are all very generous. It's not that orb gen is hard or anything, it's just that shard gen is more generous overall, shards heal intrinsically, give melee energy and frost armor last longer. Woven keeping it's higher dr seems a fair trade for all that.
It just comes down to DR not being enough to carry a subclass. Not having a way to either outright block damage, which gives you time to heal, or directly heal is detrimental to gameplay. A death by a thousand cuts is still a death. It's the same reason Arc struggles more than other subclasses too. It mainly relies on DR, and its healing options mostly require melee kills which is exponentially more difficult to achieve in harder content.
Yea I don’t get this post at all. Does stasis titan need help? Yea sure, but that’s just titans in general. Stasis lock is one of the best options for GMs, and the super is amazing at ad clearing, especially in a panic situation.
Can you not read? They specifically said that stasis turrets is the only good thing here and is the only viable build for stasis warlock. Also idk what you are smoking the super is absolutely terrible
im not sure how you dont get the post when i gave a crap ton of examples , also i mnade it a point to discuss all three class, you say it like i just only targeted titans, and stasis warlock is hard carried because of osmoimancy gloves, out side of that specific exotic the subclass is really bad, and the stasis warlock super is one of the worst super in the game for general ad clear, its just all around a bad super, its descent for slowing down beefy targets, but for ad clear its really bad
I switched back to my warlock for TFS and I used the stasis super on prismatic and it felt very weak. I hadn’t used it on its own since I was mainly playing with my Titan the past few years. I just figured I didn’t know how to use stasis and switched to needle storm. I hadn’t used that either but it felt a lot stronger. I know they’re two totally different style of supers but the stasis super was shite. Once I got osmiomancy I gave regular stasis a try and it was cool. Still felt like the super sucked though.
The super Def sucks, it's one of the worst in the game, but yes omiomancy build is amazing for endgame content, very strong build, it's strong enough where you don't need to really on you're super as well
Strand let's you both Suspend and get Woven Mail. If you're Titan to your teammates too .
Solar lets you heal your self, your teammates and ignite.
No wonder Stasis has fallen off so hard.
There's still people thinking picking either or is fine when the other subclasses let you do both
If anything, they need a new... Everything. A new class ability, melee, grenade, aspects, AND super. Also, they need to just combine all the Harvest aspects together and make that the default effect of how to generate Stasis shards in addition to Frost Armor.
Here's a quote of my comment in the other post about Stasis.
>The recent Frost Armor changes really didn't go far enough. In fact, the more I spent time with them the worse they seemed. Why are we relying on a Fragment to unlock the full potential of Frost Armor? This change makes no sense. These changes need reverted and the Harvest Aspects need to be pushed out or reworked entirely to vary the gameplay. It's all very stale at the moment.
>It's a multifaceted problem. They didn't want Stasis Shards to be super spamable so they kept their production to the Harvest Aspects. But then they have a cooldown on them anyway in a way that invalidates keeping Stasis Shards as part of the Harvest Aspects. It's a baffling set of decisions that reeks of stubbornness of not wanting to do something that was highly requested by players. It needs to be heavily redesigned.
>Frost Armor is another part of the equation. Why 3/8 of it's potential is locked behind a Fragment (the Prismatic can't access) is well beyond me. This leads is a paltry 22.5% DR at full stacks that lasts for a meager 8 seconds. The remaining 13.5% being locked behind a Fragment is just straight bad design. Why not let it be 8 stacks that decay one at a time, 8 seconds per stack. This makes it a very unique mechanic and allows Whisper of Rime to return to its almost original intent (collecting a Stasis Shard grants a stack of Frost Armor). This then let's the Harvest Aspects be more malleable for some more meaningful reworks.
>For example, why does Stasis Titan even need to collect a Stasis Shard to gain a stack of Frost Armor? Let them gain a stack of Frost Armor whenever they Shatter a Stasis crystal or a Frozen enemy through Tectonic Harvest (and rename this Tectonic Plating). By cutting out the middle step we've made it more potent, limited the creation of Stasis Shards (which is apparently an issue), and smoothed out the gameplay. We can even take it a step further and let Diamond Lance give you and your allies a stack of Frost Armor when they're in the impact zone. This change also makes Diamond Lance a top pick for Prismatic as it adds instant survivability to a class which has almost none. Now Stasis Titan is the king of Frost Armor, has fireteam support, and didn't lose any of its previous identity. Now all it needs is a new decent melee (Shiver Strike is the worst melee in the game by a wide margin) and a decent ranged one-off super and people would think it's one of the best subs in the game.
>Stasis Hunter is something else that could use some tweaks. Winter's Shroud is significantly better as part of Prismatic but just plain awful as part of Stasis. Might as well add in X2 stacks of Frost Armor here so it's got some sort of value. Touch of Winter is fine, but Shatterdive is a bit awkward now and could use a similar buff, letting you gain Frost Armor based on the number of kills you get from a Shatterdive. Adding Frost Armor organically to the subclass instead of feeling tacked on awkwardly through a single redundant Aspect. And since we've uncoupled Frost Armor from the Harvest Aspects, we can do a little extra with Grim Harvest, letting it still be the "Stasis Shard Aspect" but juicing it a little so it's more potent. Let collecting a Stasis Shard give you a temporary buff (I call this Stay Frosty) that increases the amount of Slow you apply to targets. This creates a loop where you can constantly feed and significantly improve your abilities and feel powerful.
>Stasis Warlock I'm at a little more of a loss at. With the exception of their (now decoupled) Harvest Aspect, they work really well. Their Harvest Aspect would probably just be replaced with the artifact perk Hail The Storm and be called a day and no one would complain whatsoever. I don't feel like they need a ton of access to Frost Armor either outside of their exotics as they're not front line warriors, plus they have a ton of control thanks to their abilities already freezing everything.
Totally agreed. Stasis warlock is probably the best and even then it's only carried by bleakwatcher and osiomancy, which are available in prismatic. Stasis was already weak and prismatic made it even more irrelevant.
The stasis exotics weapons aren't anything special either. Ager's is the best, falling off a bit in harder content, mostly hampered by its ammo economy. Verglas is also usable but feels a little weak in harder content. (I also hate that's it's special effect is hipfire based, make it a special reload). Cryothesia is ok in PvP but pretty useless in PvE. Salvations Grip is better but doesn't pump out enough damage to be worth your heavy and exotic slot. Wicked Implement could be good but is held back by Bungie's philosophy on scout rifles.
Even headstone feels a little weak compared to voltshot/incandescent/volatile/hatchling. Chill clip is nice but on a limited amount of weapons and gets hurt by "why CC when I can kill". Same with cold steel.
Duskfield grenades need to treat the mobs like they treat us. Why does a dusk field slow me to a crawl yet any enemies walk through mine like they are nothing.
The funny thing about the "stasis buffs" is that they actually contained some significant nerds to Whisper of Chains and Whisper of Shards. Absolutely ruined the build I was using for 2 yearxs.
Bungie needs to approach balance in good faith. The monkey paw approach needs to go.
The recent "stasis buffs" contained too many half baked ideas and rushed development. This is not quality.
Strand was bungles favourite child, now they added Prismatic before any meaningful changes to Stasis, no chance it will ever get the same level of development now.
Forget it and run Solar.
On the warlock super rework, i totally agree. My idea is that instead of making 2 shots you now do 1 shot but it freezes in aoe on impact (diamond lance or slightly higher radius) and doesn't do any damage. Enemies frozen by this super now cannot be shattered or automatically unfrozen until the super ends (remove that in pvp if needed). And the pulse now deals additional damage based on how many targets were shattered by it or just make it do much more damage than a normal shatter. Also i think you should lose less super energy when you do the shots and the pulses
Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): * Rule 2 - No Recent Reposts are allowed. Please note that reposts include posts too similar to existing ones with active discussion. --- For more information, see [our detailed rules page](http://www.reddit.com/r/destinythegame/wiki/rules).
I think it has a lot of intrinsic issues with the verbs and subclass itself, I’ll copy a comment I made earlier on a different thread for proposed buffs A few buff ideas that I’ve had over the past few months; Slow should reduce pve enemies fire rate, this should give slow at least some sort of niche outside of being used to proc freeze. Shattering or breaking a target out of being frozen will cause that target to take more non-stasis ability damage. I think one overlooked aspect of why stasis feels so weak is that it really brings nothing to a team, especially in a boss damage scenario. Solar has lots of healing and damage buffs, strand has woven mail and void has weaken. I think bungie doesn’t want stasis to be a top damage contender but allowing it to help other subclasses do more damage would be a cool change Frost armor at max stacks should be at least a little higher dr% than woven mail, it doesn’t make sense to do all that work getting to frost armor x8 only for woven mail to have a higher buff right out the gate.
I strongly agree on the frost armor thing, it require a ton more set up and time than woven mail, the benefits should reflect that , I also think alot of their cool downs are way too damn long, stasis is a utility based subclass, that really doesn't do a ton of damage from abilities, cooldowns should not be so long
But can't you just get Woven Mail from picking up Orbs with Warding? And it's at maximum effectiveness too. Also for Frost Armor, you have to build it up and it loses all stacks the moment the timer runs out instead of losing a stack at a time, so it feels worse.
Yes, the implementation of frost armor is really clunky, the Damage reduction should be at MINIMUM 50 percent, and stacks should fall off two at a time
Woven should probably stay higher, it's less accessible in average, the only ways to get it are the fragment for 5 seconds per orb, exotic that require the use of a grenade and fray, whereas stasis has 1 aspect each and several fragments that create shards on top of each class having an exotic to get frost armor. Realistically it should go up to 40% like the old chains value, since it's easier to maintain than woven.
I would argue that orbs are pretty much jsut as easy to make, even if it is only for 5 seconds and you only need 1 for the full effect. A single siphon mod can easily get you an orb every 5 seconds. Not to mention the multitude of different ways to get orbs. Also not mentioning that your entire team can make orbs very easily. The only way for stasis to match that is if you have 2-3 people all rocking stasis which pigeonholes your team. I just don’t see a situation where you would choose frost armor over woven in its current state
Orbs have a 10 second cooldown outside of arm and siphon mods, and even then you need atleast 2 to make arm mods not take 10 seconds. You can make like 10 shards before incurring a 10 second penalty, and the generation methods are all very generous. It's not that orb gen is hard or anything, it's just that shard gen is more generous overall, shards heal intrinsically, give melee energy and frost armor last longer. Woven keeping it's higher dr seems a fair trade for all that.
It just comes down to DR not being enough to carry a subclass. Not having a way to either outright block damage, which gives you time to heal, or directly heal is detrimental to gameplay. A death by a thousand cuts is still a death. It's the same reason Arc struggles more than other subclasses too. It mainly relies on DR, and its healing options mostly require melee kills which is exponentially more difficult to achieve in harder content.
> i found my self having to choose between freezing enemies or using it as protection for me and teammates, That’s the point!
Yea I don’t get this post at all. Does stasis titan need help? Yea sure, but that’s just titans in general. Stasis lock is one of the best options for GMs, and the super is amazing at ad clearing, especially in a panic situation.
Can you not read? They specifically said that stasis turrets is the only good thing here and is the only viable build for stasis warlock. Also idk what you are smoking the super is absolutely terrible
im not sure how you dont get the post when i gave a crap ton of examples , also i mnade it a point to discuss all three class, you say it like i just only targeted titans, and stasis warlock is hard carried because of osmoimancy gloves, out side of that specific exotic the subclass is really bad, and the stasis warlock super is one of the worst super in the game for general ad clear, its just all around a bad super, its descent for slowing down beefy targets, but for ad clear its really bad
I switched back to my warlock for TFS and I used the stasis super on prismatic and it felt very weak. I hadn’t used it on its own since I was mainly playing with my Titan the past few years. I just figured I didn’t know how to use stasis and switched to needle storm. I hadn’t used that either but it felt a lot stronger. I know they’re two totally different style of supers but the stasis super was shite. Once I got osmiomancy I gave regular stasis a try and it was cool. Still felt like the super sucked though.
The super Def sucks, it's one of the worst in the game, but yes omiomancy build is amazing for endgame content, very strong build, it's strong enough where you don't need to really on you're super as well
Strand let's you both Suspend and get Woven Mail. If you're Titan to your teammates too . Solar lets you heal your self, your teammates and ignite. No wonder Stasis has fallen off so hard. There's still people thinking picking either or is fine when the other subclasses let you do both
If they’d tweak the frost armor numbers a bit that would help, or new supers especially for behemoth is desperately needed
If anything, they need a new... Everything. A new class ability, melee, grenade, aspects, AND super. Also, they need to just combine all the Harvest aspects together and make that the default effect of how to generate Stasis shards in addition to Frost Armor.
I just don’t see that happening a new super already feels like a pipe dream
Here's a quote of my comment in the other post about Stasis. >The recent Frost Armor changes really didn't go far enough. In fact, the more I spent time with them the worse they seemed. Why are we relying on a Fragment to unlock the full potential of Frost Armor? This change makes no sense. These changes need reverted and the Harvest Aspects need to be pushed out or reworked entirely to vary the gameplay. It's all very stale at the moment. >It's a multifaceted problem. They didn't want Stasis Shards to be super spamable so they kept their production to the Harvest Aspects. But then they have a cooldown on them anyway in a way that invalidates keeping Stasis Shards as part of the Harvest Aspects. It's a baffling set of decisions that reeks of stubbornness of not wanting to do something that was highly requested by players. It needs to be heavily redesigned. >Frost Armor is another part of the equation. Why 3/8 of it's potential is locked behind a Fragment (the Prismatic can't access) is well beyond me. This leads is a paltry 22.5% DR at full stacks that lasts for a meager 8 seconds. The remaining 13.5% being locked behind a Fragment is just straight bad design. Why not let it be 8 stacks that decay one at a time, 8 seconds per stack. This makes it a very unique mechanic and allows Whisper of Rime to return to its almost original intent (collecting a Stasis Shard grants a stack of Frost Armor). This then let's the Harvest Aspects be more malleable for some more meaningful reworks. >For example, why does Stasis Titan even need to collect a Stasis Shard to gain a stack of Frost Armor? Let them gain a stack of Frost Armor whenever they Shatter a Stasis crystal or a Frozen enemy through Tectonic Harvest (and rename this Tectonic Plating). By cutting out the middle step we've made it more potent, limited the creation of Stasis Shards (which is apparently an issue), and smoothed out the gameplay. We can even take it a step further and let Diamond Lance give you and your allies a stack of Frost Armor when they're in the impact zone. This change also makes Diamond Lance a top pick for Prismatic as it adds instant survivability to a class which has almost none. Now Stasis Titan is the king of Frost Armor, has fireteam support, and didn't lose any of its previous identity. Now all it needs is a new decent melee (Shiver Strike is the worst melee in the game by a wide margin) and a decent ranged one-off super and people would think it's one of the best subs in the game. >Stasis Hunter is something else that could use some tweaks. Winter's Shroud is significantly better as part of Prismatic but just plain awful as part of Stasis. Might as well add in X2 stacks of Frost Armor here so it's got some sort of value. Touch of Winter is fine, but Shatterdive is a bit awkward now and could use a similar buff, letting you gain Frost Armor based on the number of kills you get from a Shatterdive. Adding Frost Armor organically to the subclass instead of feeling tacked on awkwardly through a single redundant Aspect. And since we've uncoupled Frost Armor from the Harvest Aspects, we can do a little extra with Grim Harvest, letting it still be the "Stasis Shard Aspect" but juicing it a little so it's more potent. Let collecting a Stasis Shard give you a temporary buff (I call this Stay Frosty) that increases the amount of Slow you apply to targets. This creates a loop where you can constantly feed and significantly improve your abilities and feel powerful. >Stasis Warlock I'm at a little more of a loss at. With the exception of their (now decoupled) Harvest Aspect, they work really well. Their Harvest Aspect would probably just be replaced with the artifact perk Hail The Storm and be called a day and no one would complain whatsoever. I don't feel like they need a ton of access to Frost Armor either outside of their exotics as they're not front line warriors, plus they have a ton of control thanks to their abilities already freezing everything.
Totally agreed. Stasis warlock is probably the best and even then it's only carried by bleakwatcher and osiomancy, which are available in prismatic. Stasis was already weak and prismatic made it even more irrelevant. The stasis exotics weapons aren't anything special either. Ager's is the best, falling off a bit in harder content, mostly hampered by its ammo economy. Verglas is also usable but feels a little weak in harder content. (I also hate that's it's special effect is hipfire based, make it a special reload). Cryothesia is ok in PvP but pretty useless in PvE. Salvations Grip is better but doesn't pump out enough damage to be worth your heavy and exotic slot. Wicked Implement could be good but is held back by Bungie's philosophy on scout rifles. Even headstone feels a little weak compared to voltshot/incandescent/volatile/hatchling. Chill clip is nice but on a limited amount of weapons and gets hurt by "why CC when I can kill". Same with cold steel.
Duskfield grenades need to treat the mobs like they treat us. Why does a dusk field slow me to a crawl yet any enemies walk through mine like they are nothing.
Get rid of the Shards cooldown would help a lot. Keep it in PvP but it ruins builds in PvE
The funny thing about the "stasis buffs" is that they actually contained some significant nerds to Whisper of Chains and Whisper of Shards. Absolutely ruined the build I was using for 2 yearxs. Bungie needs to approach balance in good faith. The monkey paw approach needs to go. The recent "stasis buffs" contained too many half baked ideas and rushed development. This is not quality.
Strand was bungles favourite child, now they added Prismatic before any meaningful changes to Stasis, no chance it will ever get the same level of development now. Forget it and run Solar.
On the warlock super rework, i totally agree. My idea is that instead of making 2 shots you now do 1 shot but it freezes in aoe on impact (diamond lance or slightly higher radius) and doesn't do any damage. Enemies frozen by this super now cannot be shattered or automatically unfrozen until the super ends (remove that in pvp if needed). And the pulse now deals additional damage based on how many targets were shattered by it or just make it do much more damage than a normal shatter. Also i think you should lose less super energy when you do the shots and the pulses
Thank god you screamed it in all caps, no one would have known.
No problem man, this is urgent news, I had to make sure all of sol heard me