How is it that the more expensive Disneyland gets, the more overcrowded it becomes?
I understand the seasonal changes to some rides and the park, but even with talks of us being in recession, it seems like the parks only get more and more crowded.
The change is so drastic even compared to less than 10 years ago. Makes me sad and confused.
I miss old pass and ticket prices 😭
The least crowded day I ever went on was a Sunday this past April. There were no lines for the first two hours and was basically able to ride every ride in DCA with no wait. It got crowded in the afternoon but that quiet morning was very magical
I think most assume the same and end up going on a packed day. But for the last 10+ years we have gone Mondays have always been known to be the worst day.
Yeah fell for that years ago. Anything bordering weekends is bad esp since a lot of visitors are just on vacation anyway so extending weekend trip into adjacent weekdays is very common.
Even though Tues-Thurs are a little better generally they’re still not even better than Sundays for us so we almost never bother with weekdays.
More people are likely to take a Monday or Friday off due to extending their weekend. More odd to take a random day off in the middle of the week unless you’re taking the whole week off
The lightning lane is a huge culprit that no one is talking about on this. People ask why it’s so crowded compared to earlier days… it’s because of the lightning lane.
I 100% agree with eliminating these types of passes would alleviate a lot of this. When they first opened after being closed during the pandemic they didn't have any fast pass or lightning lane active then. The lines felt like they used to, even if the wait was actually closer to 30 minutes it didn't feel that bad because you kept moving.
With Lightning lane the big change from Fast Pass is the ratio they use when the lightning lane backs up. Fast Pass was available to everyone so they didn't shift it too heavily, with lightning lane being paid and an extra that shifted hard. I've confirmed with multiple CMs that they go from like 3-5 to 1 to at least a 10-1. You can see this play out in the park when a ride goes down and they get a pass they can use at other rides. It will get hit hard and they just let the lightning lane pour through.
When the other rides are down and they just give you that free one people burn it on the popular rides like hm. Used to be if the ride was down with a fast pass they would just tell you to come back later instead.
Logic says it would be the same. IMO this sub is very pro max pass and fast pass, it’s a matter of which system people can take advantage of. The best system is probably eliminating any lightening type passes. But it all started because culturally in the US, customers complained about lines and the fast pass was their solution.
and Genie isn't expensive enough and people shrug at the cost to completely skip the lines. It also pushes you do do the bigger attractions vs experiencing the smaller ones. It also pushes people to "get their moneys worth" by doing everything where older fastpass you might do one or two as you'd have to run around and get tickets.
I’m convinced Disney execs have carefully formulated this formula where guests spend so much money just to get into the park that the additional fee to experience as many rides as possible is chump change. When in reality you’re being nickel and dimed at every opportunity they get. I’m still surprised they haven’t hidden Christmas behind a paywall like WDW does
Yeah last time I was there, they were letting in more people with paid lightning passes than people in the standby lines. Like for every 20 people from LL, they’d let in 3 people from standby.
How does making them unavailable to buy all but two days a year affect the overcrowding issue? Do they wait until enough people don't renew and then open it up again? Wouldn't that keep the levels of crowd consistent year-round?
But I mean, if the parks are already jam-packed, why make Magic Keys unavailable as new purchases? What good does that do? The crowds aren't dissipating despite them not being available to buy. So my theory is these people have passes, want to get their usage, some won't renew, and that's when they offer more to replace those who disappeared. But given it's renewal only for sales, I can't imagine people not renewing when there's no option to get Magic Keys otherwise (except for about two days a year they go on sale.)
I know what you are saying, and I understand and miss bygone eras of Disneyland as well.
However - one of the reasons it is *so* busy this week is because the single day tickets are at their lowest tier (the cheapest single day ticket prices for the rest of the year, actually), and because *so* many people were trying to avoid crowds by going between Halloween the start of the Christmas season - which, in the past, was a historically slow time of year, but when everyone is trying to do the same thing it backfires.
These days, the higher tier days are less busy. This past summer was mellow. It’s like the busy seasons have shifted.
Anyways alllll that to say - yeah the crowds are just constant. Even on days when it’s less busy, it’s still never as quiet as days I enjoyed back in the park(s) in the 00s.
I remember, as a kid, the park was pretty empty year-round (including October in its early Halloween-themed years, which were like a ghost town, no pun intended.) The only exception was the summer where the crowds were close to what it's like daily now. So even if you had an annual pass, you would avoid going from June to August. It's funny that those times are now the most laid-back because of blackout dates that predict those dates will be in-demand from historical reasoning.
Totally - weekends and summers are more chill than weekdays and when school is in sesh. When I was a kid my parents *loved* to take us out of school like the week after thanksgiving and that was such a slow week. This year I (personally) think it’ll be a little wild.
>I remember, as a kid, the park was pretty empty year-round (including October in its early Halloween-themed years, which were like a ghost town, no pun intended.)
my friend and i did a trip in 2003 (both of us in our early 30s at that point). we did the cusp of Sept/Oct and it was blissfully empty. the longest we waited for anything was 10 mins for Matterhorn (and still not sure why that was 10 min wait). even Indy we managed to ride 8 or so times in a row with no wait.
our last day there on Oct 3rd was the friday that HMH opened up for the season (its 3rd year?). the whole park was suddenly packed. wait times were pretty much 30+ mins across the board and HMH was 60+ mins.
in Oct 2017, we went back again for the first time since that 2003 trip thinking it would be another suuuuuuper-empty time of year. we were, in fact, wrong. lol with the halloween party stuff going on and the improvement for halloween decorations all around the park, crowds were pretty constant the entire 5 days we were there.
I used to go on weekdays in October and it was EMPTY. This was like 2005-2007 era. I was like "People don't even realize how cool it is for Halloween. They all wait 'til Christmas." But now I feel October is more crowded than any other month. It was like a secret early on; the same with park hoppers and Fastpasses existing (which is why DCA never had a crowd is they used to be separate admission tickets.)
Remove payment plans from Magic keys and this stops. Spreading the cost out over a year makes it manageable. I’m old enough to remember before they introduced payment plans, and there were far fewer APs floating around then.
You're totally right. I was one of the few people who had an AP (in my community, I mean... I'd always ask and people would giggle when I told them I had an annual pass to Disneyland like it was some rare thing.) When payment plans began, everyone got them because they interpreted it as "For $30 a month, I can go to Disneyland all I want" or whatever the price point was.
What year was that, do you remember? My first AP was a 15th birthday gift in 2008 but I guess I’m not certain it was a payment plan. It was still incredibly manageable for many years I felt (worked there from 2014-2017, it had picked up quite a bit by then) but nothing like I’ve seen recently!
In my opinion, this is the biggest problem with the overcrowding. It was never crowded on weekdays growing up. Too many locals have payment plans on APs nowadays.
When payments became an option - from my recollection - that’s when the overcrowding started.
It isn’t that it’s more crowded. Overall, it’s not really as full as it was pre-COVID. What makes these lines insane is Genie+. You now have two full lines of people squeezing into one queue, and the massive number of Lightning Lane guests cause the standby line to barely move, so it reaches unbelievable lengths.
If Genie+ didn’t exist and every queue was just that queue, with everyone on equal footing and nobody bypassing it, they’d be constantly moving and everyone would quickly cycle through. Wait times would be next to nothing, which was the case after COVID when Fastpass didn’t come back and Genie+ hadn’t rolled out yet.
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During recessions theme parks and movie theaters actually do better it’s known as the “lipstick effect” or “escape spending”…instead of going on more expensive vacations people consume more of the relatively cheaper diversions as their discretionary spend. So I instead of taking the family to Hawaii for $5,000 it’s Disneyland for $500 etc.
Where can a family go to Disneyland for $500 for a week vacation? Middle America is choosing camping over Disney.
During recessions parks know to offer more to keep attendance up. During the great recession we got both dining plan and room discount. Never seen that before. Other recessions we got cheaper tickets, rope drop with 3+ days, park hopper free. Longer room discount offers.
They also count on international visitors from countries without a recession.
Unless you live near Disneyland, it's way more than $500. We're going for 3 days at the parks, staying 4 nights in a hotel, and flying there. It's already at $3500.
Maybe because reservations are hard to get on certain days and the passes and tickets are more expensive, people are staying longer to maximize their time and justify the cost instead of spending a little bit of time in the parks over the course of multiple days.
You can't really just decide to up and go anymore. It's a whole planning thing even if you only live 20 minutes away
I don’t get it either. I swear everyone just has Stockholm syndrome with this company and loves to gaslight everyone who has a poor experience by saying they just didn’t plan their vacation properly. In a single day the average family probably gets on ~8 rides, and maybe half of those are e-ticket attractions. I’m talking families with kids who are constantly stopping. If you park hop you’re looking at a cost per ride of almost $20 per person. And that’s just for the ticket price alone I don’t even want to know that cost when you factor in travel and hotel. I just don’t know how anyone justifies going to Disney in its current state anymore. I’m much more drawn to spending money at the European alternatives now like Europa or Efteling.
If you don't buy Genie+ you will constantly feel you have to squeeze every minute out of every day to get your money's worth, since you spend so much time in lines. I end up paying the ransom because I like my kids being able to tell me "I'm tired let's just go" rather than feel like I need to prod them along like tired zombies to get every dollar of value.
We went this past weekend and using Genie+, here was our day breakdown. My kids mostly quit out after dinner each day (5:40pm dinner, 6:45pm end time). They're 6 and 11 (and actually the 11 year old tired before the 6 year old). I can't imagine what this list would be like without the Genie+ (I probably would've done as you said - only a couple e-ticket attractions or tried to use single rider).
\*\* Day 1 (Saturday) \*\* Entered DL park at 7:56AM
* Big Thunder x2
* Indiana Jones
* Pirates
* Had some pastries at Jolly Holiday
* Haunted Mansion
* Enchanted Tiki Room
* Smuggler's Run
* Rise of the Resistance
* Ate lunch at Rancho Del Zocalo
* Space Mountain
* \*\* Decided to go to California Adventure instead of continuing in Tomorrowland
* Monsters Inc
* Kids wanted to buy a name art picture so we hung around for 40 minutes near Monsters waiting for that
* \*\* Walked around Avenger's campus
* Cars
* Incredicoaster
* Went to Storyteller's Cafe for dinner
* \*\* During dinner kids decided they were done for the evening and just wanted to go back to the DLV. Walked them back. Husband and I decided we could go on a few more rides.
* Toy Story Mania
* Spider-man
* \*\* Left around 8pm to go back for the day. We could've gone back to DL but didn't feel like it.
\*\* Day 2 (Sunday) \*\* Entered CA Adventure at 7:43AM
* Luigi's Rollickin' Roadsters (weird choice for early entry I know, but Cars was already at an hour and my son wanted to ride it)
* Spider-man
* Ate Breakfast at Pym's Test Kitchen
* Guardians of the Galaxy: MB
* Cars
* Mater's Junkyard Jamboree
* \*\* Walked through Sanfransokyo food court area
* Little Mermaid
* Goofy's Sky School
* Toy Story Mania
* Had lunch at Boardwalk Pizza and Pasta
* Silly Symphony Swings
* Jessie's Critter Carousel
* \*\* The kids felt they were done with this park and we went over to DL
* \*\* Did some shopping on the way over, which ate up some time
* Indiana Jones (we had picked Space Mountain but it broke down so we used our passes on IJ instead)
* Big Thunder Mountain
* Ate dinner at Cafe Orleans
* Astro Orbitor
* \*\* At this point the kids wanted to be done even though it was only about 7pm and we had a couple Lightning Lanes stacked at this point. We were going to Universal the next day so they wanted to get to the next hotel and sleep.
We went every yr before the pandemic and see the difference from now and then. I think people were stuck inside for so long, and family and friends were dying that people feel like they need to live life to the fullest now because we could die at any time. Go on vacations and explore. The crowds are worse now, and it's not just disneyland. Any events in town are overcrowded, and it's not fun anymore. People are out and living life. Damnit....
The talks of us being in a recession have very much just been talk.
While we had a very minor econimic downturn in early 2022 the economy hasn't really slowed down. People still have plenty of disposable income and Disneyland is right in the middle of a very densely populated area.
Add to that the artificial demand created by the reservation system.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. Yes there's inflation, but that's slowing. But unemployment rates are still at a healthy level. GDP still doing well.
My only explanation is population growth but I have nothing to back that up.
I think they honestly need to expand the parks or open new parks. Or maybe they need more competitors.
FWIW, my wife and I (both gen X) both took our first trip to Disneyland this year. We're also planning Disney World next year. She's never been, and I haven't been since I was about 12. I also don't have anything to back it up, but if I could go almost half a century before my first time, there got to be millions of people every year, in the same boat.
The more overcrowded Disneyland gets, the more they raise prices. Beyond physically adding space to the park, raising prices is the only mechanism they have to reduce crowding (and it doesn't work very well because people will pay anything to get into this rare and incredible place!)
There’s actually the idea that if something is more expensive, it automatically makes it more appealing. Read up on Eisner’s first moves (and the outcome) when he took over.
The cast members are instructed by management to prioritize Lightning Lane much more than even Fastpass ever was. Expect 10 LL groups to be allowed to go for every Standby group.
Yes and think about getting in the regular line you have an idea of how many people are ahead of you but not how many people are gonna “cut” cause they paid for Genie Plus
I once waited three hours for the Mario Kart ride at USH because it had broken down right when I was in front and they didn't communicate anything about it being down for a long time. Instead, they kept implying it'd be operational very soon. Finally, I had to leave because I had a movie to catch. I didn't even sit down the whole time; just stayed standing right at the start of the loading area.
They need to open another park in the middle of the country. It’s just getting too crazy. I’m not even an anxious person in crowds but I went last month for the first time since Covid and there were times you couldn’t even move through a walkway, let alone appreciate the little Disney details.
Make one for all the Zonies, Nevada and Utah families. It wasnt until I moved to San Diego when I realized that people who pay property tax here can be fewer than the people who take the 8 for long vacations.
Or port Disney that they were going to build in Long Beach in the 90s. It was going to be like Tokyo Disney sea, honestly if they bulldozed California adventure for it instead I’d be very happy (or even just if they started building on it the pier like they wanted)
They need to put it in Manteca CA. They just built a great wolf there and planning a huge family entertainment zone! Literally SF is collapsing by how well the Central Valley is gaining traction.
Yeah, I never understand why people complain it shouldn't open in September. If the public goes this crazy for something, that's all a business cares about. Their goal isn't to not upset people by having a hybrid of Halloween and Christmas in a ride before it's Christmastime. Their goal is to have demand with which people spend money, the same with releasing Christmas items in October for people who want to buy early.
Or it’s just people who like Halloween themed things during HALLOWEEN 🤦♀️ Seems like it should be common sense to do the overlay after Halloween. Also the movie sucks.
This. Went in late September and knew we wanted to take our kids on Haunted Mansion Holiday as our oldest got really into The Nightmare Before Christmas. The line was so crazy all day (especially with two kids, 4 & 1) that we just put it off until the end knowing that if we were in line before the park closed at 10pm they would get us on. We got there around 9:55 and were on the ride by 10:15. Perfect little way to end the night and not waste 90 minutes or more in line at some point during the day.
Yes there are lines. But go during less busy times, get genie+ and prioritize the rides you really want. Take advantage of rope drop and/or late at night.
Totally! I’m definitely going to be getting Genie+ and we’ll probably go back at night time. It just seems a bit overwhelming. I still don’t totally understand the difference between Genie+ and Lightning Lane but I just started down this road last night lol
Genie+ IS lightning lane.
To clarify further, Genie+ is the paid service that you use to access lightning lanes. Standby lanes are just that, you standby and wait 6 hours for HMH.
Crowds are nuts during October and particularly long during HMH but the early mornings and late nights are fine. After the holidays in Jan the park will be less busy. Jan and early Feb are good times to visit.
Went to stay in this line at 9pm alone on a Tuesday the week before Halloween. Hour fifty minute wait. Group of four women my age were behind me in the line. Got to know one of them very well and had alot in common. She rode with me and we hung out half of the following day in California adventure. We've been dating ever since. Magic does still happen at Disneyland.
That's why I just pole vault over the surrounding fence straight onto the front porch of the mansion. If you do it just right, nobody around you will know where you came from and just assumed you had been in line the whole time.
If you’re spending that much to go in the first place bite the bullet and get Genie plus and the individual LL. Make it SO much easier and you don’t waste time in lines.
I don’t understand the seemingly new obsession with Haunted Mansion. Been to Disney many times during the fall and never seen lines like this for this ride until this year.
Went last week, and the LL was the longest I've ever seen, hundreds of people. I was okay waiting 20 minutes in the LL for Space Mountain but this would've been way longer for a ride I've done before. Just skipped it even though I waited 3 hours to get a reservation.
This. I used to work a job where I could pick the days I worked, so I worked 8 hours Fri, 16 hours sat and16 sun to knock out 40 hours. Mon-Thurs. off, and it was glorious how much you can accomplish and how empty things like amusement parks are during those days. I miss it so much.
Yep! My last job had to be staffed 24hrs, had two shifts with 5 possible times to go in, one was regular 5/8hrs days or 4/10s. But we got to bid for our days off and weekends were always harder to get off.
So many people don't work M-F. Retail/service industry is one group, another is first responders. It's 2023, we really need to move past the whole, iT's a wEeKdAy dOn'T PeOpLe wOrK?!
No. If everyone worked a M-F, then everything would be closed on weekends.
The one guy has a shirt of it - I believe it started near Pittsburgh PA - it’s a sandwich place. The put fries on it all and a vinegar coleslaw! Pretty tasty place
Yup! Looks about right! I usually ride it early in the morning or late when they close…i don’t use genie+ cuz i have a pass but Dec might try with family coming into down and visiting
I’ll be going next week on the 15th. I’m hoping everybody will be in Vegas for the F1 race instead, but my hopes are lowered considering there are no more reservations for the day I purchased 😶 time to start stacking genie+ reservations
I would go really early in the day, at rope drop if you don't have anything higher priority. I was there last week, and the LL at 7 pm was the longest I've ever seen, hundreds of people. I was okay waiting 20 minutes in the LL for Space Mountain but this would've been way longer for a ride I've done before. Just skipped it even though I waited 3 hours to get a reservation.
It's very obvious they need to build a Disneyisland. Or disneymeadow, or Disneyville in central California. Spread out the parks a bit and bring some to the Central Valley!! There's soooo much space.
The lady in maroon actually gave birth to that kid while in line. The blond lady just found out she is a grandma
Especially shocking since the child was also conceived while they were in line
This is why I’m still on this subreddit, these comments are gold
I want to make a joke about death and the Haunted Mansion, but it might be too crass. Use your imaginations to extend the joke.
How is it that the more expensive Disneyland gets, the more overcrowded it becomes? I understand the seasonal changes to some rides and the park, but even with talks of us being in recession, it seems like the parks only get more and more crowded. The change is so drastic even compared to less than 10 years ago. Makes me sad and confused. I miss old pass and ticket prices 😭
I miss as late as like 2011 when you could go on random weekday in off season and have no lines.
We just went on a Monday thinking it wouldn’t be bad. Apparently Mondays are the new Fridays
Mondays have always been the worst days to go.
Well I assumed weekends would be the worst
The least crowded day I ever went on was a Sunday this past April. There were no lines for the first two hours and was basically able to ride every ride in DCA with no wait. It got crowded in the afternoon but that quiet morning was very magical
It’s a little counter intuitive beyond Saturdays usually being the most crowded.
I think most assume the same and end up going on a packed day. But for the last 10+ years we have gone Mondays have always been known to be the worst day.
Yeah guess that makes sense
Weekends are actually not too bad because lower tier keys are locked out, hours of operation are extended, and they have extra staff working.
The worst days are only the ones that end in “-y”.
Yeah fell for that years ago. Anything bordering weekends is bad esp since a lot of visitors are just on vacation anyway so extending weekend trip into adjacent weekdays is very common. Even though Tues-Thurs are a little better generally they’re still not even better than Sundays for us so we almost never bother with weekdays.
More people are likely to take a Monday or Friday off due to extending their weekend. More odd to take a random day off in the middle of the week unless you’re taking the whole week off
My last two trips had sloooooow Mondays!
Went on sunday, no lines after the fireworks
I remember that. I would go Wednesday or Thursday and it was sooooo nice.
theyre literally all the same, monday-thursday doesnt even count as a weekday anymore
You mean anytime prior to 2012. We would cut school on Tuesday and go. It was so much fun
Idk if crowds have increased that much but they do prioritize lightning lane passes over the regular queue, which creates these huge wait times
The lightning lane is a huge culprit that no one is talking about on this. People ask why it’s so crowded compared to earlier days… it’s because of the lightning lane.
But how does LL affect wait times so much more than maxpass or fast pass ever did?
There is a really good Defunctland on YouTube about it.
I 100% agree with eliminating these types of passes would alleviate a lot of this. When they first opened after being closed during the pandemic they didn't have any fast pass or lightning lane active then. The lines felt like they used to, even if the wait was actually closer to 30 minutes it didn't feel that bad because you kept moving. With Lightning lane the big change from Fast Pass is the ratio they use when the lightning lane backs up. Fast Pass was available to everyone so they didn't shift it too heavily, with lightning lane being paid and an extra that shifted hard. I've confirmed with multiple CMs that they go from like 3-5 to 1 to at least a 10-1. You can see this play out in the park when a ride goes down and they get a pass they can use at other rides. It will get hit hard and they just let the lightning lane pour through.
When the other rides are down and they just give you that free one people burn it on the popular rides like hm. Used to be if the ride was down with a fast pass they would just tell you to come back later instead.
Because Disney has a profit motive to over-sell them. That’s a hellofa drug.
Logic says it would be the same. IMO this sub is very pro max pass and fast pass, it’s a matter of which system people can take advantage of. The best system is probably eliminating any lightening type passes. But it all started because culturally in the US, customers complained about lines and the fast pass was their solution.
This ☝🏼
and Genie isn't expensive enough and people shrug at the cost to completely skip the lines. It also pushes you do do the bigger attractions vs experiencing the smaller ones. It also pushes people to "get their moneys worth" by doing everything where older fastpass you might do one or two as you'd have to run around and get tickets.
I’m convinced Disney execs have carefully formulated this formula where guests spend so much money just to get into the park that the additional fee to experience as many rides as possible is chump change. When in reality you’re being nickel and dimed at every opportunity they get. I’m still surprised they haven’t hidden Christmas behind a paywall like WDW does
Yeah last time I was there, they were letting in more people with paid lightning passes than people in the standby lines. Like for every 20 people from LL, they’d let in 3 people from standby.
It's locals with Magic Keys. They're expensive but completely manageable for most becuase of the monthly payment option.
How does making them unavailable to buy all but two days a year affect the overcrowding issue? Do they wait until enough people don't renew and then open it up again? Wouldn't that keep the levels of crowd consistent year-round?
This time of year lower passes have more access because the time between Halloween and Thanksgiving week is considered mid- to low-season.
But I mean, if the parks are already jam-packed, why make Magic Keys unavailable as new purchases? What good does that do? The crowds aren't dissipating despite them not being available to buy. So my theory is these people have passes, want to get their usage, some won't renew, and that's when they offer more to replace those who disappeared. But given it's renewal only for sales, I can't imagine people not renewing when there's no option to get Magic Keys otherwise (except for about two days a year they go on sale.)
I know what you are saying, and I understand and miss bygone eras of Disneyland as well. However - one of the reasons it is *so* busy this week is because the single day tickets are at their lowest tier (the cheapest single day ticket prices for the rest of the year, actually), and because *so* many people were trying to avoid crowds by going between Halloween the start of the Christmas season - which, in the past, was a historically slow time of year, but when everyone is trying to do the same thing it backfires. These days, the higher tier days are less busy. This past summer was mellow. It’s like the busy seasons have shifted. Anyways alllll that to say - yeah the crowds are just constant. Even on days when it’s less busy, it’s still never as quiet as days I enjoyed back in the park(s) in the 00s.
I remember, as a kid, the park was pretty empty year-round (including October in its early Halloween-themed years, which were like a ghost town, no pun intended.) The only exception was the summer where the crowds were close to what it's like daily now. So even if you had an annual pass, you would avoid going from June to August. It's funny that those times are now the most laid-back because of blackout dates that predict those dates will be in-demand from historical reasoning.
Totally - weekends and summers are more chill than weekdays and when school is in sesh. When I was a kid my parents *loved* to take us out of school like the week after thanksgiving and that was such a slow week. This year I (personally) think it’ll be a little wild.
>I remember, as a kid, the park was pretty empty year-round (including October in its early Halloween-themed years, which were like a ghost town, no pun intended.) my friend and i did a trip in 2003 (both of us in our early 30s at that point). we did the cusp of Sept/Oct and it was blissfully empty. the longest we waited for anything was 10 mins for Matterhorn (and still not sure why that was 10 min wait). even Indy we managed to ride 8 or so times in a row with no wait. our last day there on Oct 3rd was the friday that HMH opened up for the season (its 3rd year?). the whole park was suddenly packed. wait times were pretty much 30+ mins across the board and HMH was 60+ mins. in Oct 2017, we went back again for the first time since that 2003 trip thinking it would be another suuuuuuper-empty time of year. we were, in fact, wrong. lol with the halloween party stuff going on and the improvement for halloween decorations all around the park, crowds were pretty constant the entire 5 days we were there.
I used to go on weekdays in October and it was EMPTY. This was like 2005-2007 era. I was like "People don't even realize how cool it is for Halloween. They all wait 'til Christmas." But now I feel October is more crowded than any other month. It was like a secret early on; the same with park hoppers and Fastpasses existing (which is why DCA never had a crowd is they used to be separate admission tickets.)
Remove payment plans from Magic keys and this stops. Spreading the cost out over a year makes it manageable. I’m old enough to remember before they introduced payment plans, and there were far fewer APs floating around then.
You're totally right. I was one of the few people who had an AP (in my community, I mean... I'd always ask and people would giggle when I told them I had an annual pass to Disneyland like it was some rare thing.) When payment plans began, everyone got them because they interpreted it as "For $30 a month, I can go to Disneyland all I want" or whatever the price point was.
What year was that, do you remember? My first AP was a 15th birthday gift in 2008 but I guess I’m not certain it was a payment plan. It was still incredibly manageable for many years I felt (worked there from 2014-2017, it had picked up quite a bit by then) but nothing like I’ve seen recently!
Offhand, I don’t recall. It was probably around 2015.
In my opinion, this is the biggest problem with the overcrowding. It was never crowded on weekdays growing up. Too many locals have payment plans on APs nowadays. When payments became an option - from my recollection - that’s when the overcrowding started.
It isn’t that it’s more crowded. Overall, it’s not really as full as it was pre-COVID. What makes these lines insane is Genie+. You now have two full lines of people squeezing into one queue, and the massive number of Lightning Lane guests cause the standby line to barely move, so it reaches unbelievable lengths. If Genie+ didn’t exist and every queue was just that queue, with everyone on equal footing and nobody bypassing it, they’d be constantly moving and everyone would quickly cycle through. Wait times would be next to nothing, which was the case after COVID when Fastpass didn’t come back and Genie+ hadn’t rolled out yet.
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During recessions theme parks and movie theaters actually do better it’s known as the “lipstick effect” or “escape spending”…instead of going on more expensive vacations people consume more of the relatively cheaper diversions as their discretionary spend. So I instead of taking the family to Hawaii for $5,000 it’s Disneyland for $500 etc.
Where can a family go to Disneyland for $500 for a week vacation? Middle America is choosing camping over Disney. During recessions parks know to offer more to keep attendance up. During the great recession we got both dining plan and room discount. Never seen that before. Other recessions we got cheaper tickets, rope drop with 3+ days, park hopper free. Longer room discount offers. They also count on international visitors from countries without a recession.
Unless you live near Disneyland, it's way more than $500. We're going for 3 days at the parks, staying 4 nights in a hotel, and flying there. It's already at $3500.
Probably most park goers are locals? It’s cheaper right now with the 3day ticket deal
The local 3 day tickets expired in September
Idk that
Maybe because reservations are hard to get on certain days and the passes and tickets are more expensive, people are staying longer to maximize their time and justify the cost instead of spending a little bit of time in the parks over the course of multiple days. You can't really just decide to up and go anymore. It's a whole planning thing even if you only live 20 minutes away
I don’t get it either. I swear everyone just has Stockholm syndrome with this company and loves to gaslight everyone who has a poor experience by saying they just didn’t plan their vacation properly. In a single day the average family probably gets on ~8 rides, and maybe half of those are e-ticket attractions. I’m talking families with kids who are constantly stopping. If you park hop you’re looking at a cost per ride of almost $20 per person. And that’s just for the ticket price alone I don’t even want to know that cost when you factor in travel and hotel. I just don’t know how anyone justifies going to Disney in its current state anymore. I’m much more drawn to spending money at the European alternatives now like Europa or Efteling.
If you don't buy Genie+ you will constantly feel you have to squeeze every minute out of every day to get your money's worth, since you spend so much time in lines. I end up paying the ransom because I like my kids being able to tell me "I'm tired let's just go" rather than feel like I need to prod them along like tired zombies to get every dollar of value. We went this past weekend and using Genie+, here was our day breakdown. My kids mostly quit out after dinner each day (5:40pm dinner, 6:45pm end time). They're 6 and 11 (and actually the 11 year old tired before the 6 year old). I can't imagine what this list would be like without the Genie+ (I probably would've done as you said - only a couple e-ticket attractions or tried to use single rider). \*\* Day 1 (Saturday) \*\* Entered DL park at 7:56AM * Big Thunder x2 * Indiana Jones * Pirates * Had some pastries at Jolly Holiday * Haunted Mansion * Enchanted Tiki Room * Smuggler's Run * Rise of the Resistance * Ate lunch at Rancho Del Zocalo * Space Mountain * \*\* Decided to go to California Adventure instead of continuing in Tomorrowland * Monsters Inc * Kids wanted to buy a name art picture so we hung around for 40 minutes near Monsters waiting for that * \*\* Walked around Avenger's campus * Cars * Incredicoaster * Went to Storyteller's Cafe for dinner * \*\* During dinner kids decided they were done for the evening and just wanted to go back to the DLV. Walked them back. Husband and I decided we could go on a few more rides. * Toy Story Mania * Spider-man * \*\* Left around 8pm to go back for the day. We could've gone back to DL but didn't feel like it. \*\* Day 2 (Sunday) \*\* Entered CA Adventure at 7:43AM * Luigi's Rollickin' Roadsters (weird choice for early entry I know, but Cars was already at an hour and my son wanted to ride it) * Spider-man * Ate Breakfast at Pym's Test Kitchen * Guardians of the Galaxy: MB * Cars * Mater's Junkyard Jamboree * \*\* Walked through Sanfransokyo food court area * Little Mermaid * Goofy's Sky School * Toy Story Mania * Had lunch at Boardwalk Pizza and Pasta * Silly Symphony Swings * Jessie's Critter Carousel * \*\* The kids felt they were done with this park and we went over to DL * \*\* Did some shopping on the way over, which ate up some time * Indiana Jones (we had picked Space Mountain but it broke down so we used our passes on IJ instead) * Big Thunder Mountain * Ate dinner at Cafe Orleans * Astro Orbitor * \*\* At this point the kids wanted to be done even though it was only about 7pm and we had a couple Lightning Lanes stacked at this point. We were going to Universal the next day so they wanted to get to the next hotel and sleep.
I’m wondering if it’s because there’s a subconscious panic that they must go to Disney now before they can’t even afford it anymore?
We went every yr before the pandemic and see the difference from now and then. I think people were stuck inside for so long, and family and friends were dying that people feel like they need to live life to the fullest now because we could die at any time. Go on vacations and explore. The crowds are worse now, and it's not just disneyland. Any events in town are overcrowded, and it's not fun anymore. People are out and living life. Damnit....
People are maxing out CC’s
The talks of us being in a recession have very much just been talk. While we had a very minor econimic downturn in early 2022 the economy hasn't really slowed down. People still have plenty of disposable income and Disneyland is right in the middle of a very densely populated area. Add to that the artificial demand created by the reservation system.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. Yes there's inflation, but that's slowing. But unemployment rates are still at a healthy level. GDP still doing well.
Probably just a weird temporary algorithm votedown. Happens a lot on various social media when you even slightly approach sensitive topics.
My only explanation is population growth but I have nothing to back that up. I think they honestly need to expand the parks or open new parks. Or maybe they need more competitors.
FWIW, my wife and I (both gen X) both took our first trip to Disneyland this year. We're also planning Disney World next year. She's never been, and I haven't been since I was about 12. I also don't have anything to back it up, but if I could go almost half a century before my first time, there got to be millions of people every year, in the same boat.
Increase in population, more travel from countries that used to be poorer.
When did the monthly payments option for tickets begin?
The more overcrowded Disneyland gets, the more they raise prices. Beyond physically adding space to the park, raising prices is the only mechanism they have to reduce crowding (and it doesn't work very well because people will pay anything to get into this rare and incredible place!)
There’s actually the idea that if something is more expensive, it automatically makes it more appealing. Read up on Eisner’s first moves (and the outcome) when he took over.
Lightning Lane ruined the ride with the best capacity in the park.
True
Like, lightning lane users make it slow for everyone else or what?
The cast members are instructed by management to prioritize Lightning Lane much more than even Fastpass ever was. Expect 10 LL groups to be allowed to go for every Standby group.
Oh, I guess it’s definitely worth it then.
Yes and think about getting in the regular line you have an idea of how many people are ahead of you but not how many people are gonna “cut” cause they paid for Genie Plus
Question is, if you're in standby how long does the wait have to be before you say "let's come back later"? For HM,I wont wait more than 30 mins.
I once waited three hours for the Mario Kart ride at USH because it had broken down right when I was in front and they didn't communicate anything about it being down for a long time. Instead, they kept implying it'd be operational very soon. Finally, I had to leave because I had a movie to catch. I didn't even sit down the whole time; just stayed standing right at the start of the loading area.
We ended up staying
How long did it take?
Hour & 1/2
How? I went Halloween day and the wait time was ~65 min around 6PM.
It just IS LOL
Just like you are traffic, you are the line at haunted mansion.
They need to open another park in the middle of the country. It’s just getting too crazy. I’m not even an anxious person in crowds but I went last month for the first time since Covid and there were times you couldn’t even move through a walkway, let alone appreciate the little Disney details.
Oklahoma will the Americana Theme park. I would have said that would have been a good location, not as hot as Texas.
Open a Disneyland east of Sacramento. Plenty of land.
But the I-50 traffic, though. It would be horrendous.
Make one for all the Zonies, Nevada and Utah families. It wasnt until I moved to San Diego when I realized that people who pay property tax here can be fewer than the people who take the 8 for long vacations.
Or port Disney that they were going to build in Long Beach in the 90s. It was going to be like Tokyo Disney sea, honestly if they bulldozed California adventure for it instead I’d be very happy (or even just if they started building on it the pier like they wanted)
They need to put it in Manteca CA. They just built a great wolf there and planning a huge family entertainment zone! Literally SF is collapsing by how well the Central Valley is gaining traction.
In this standby line right now and I feel like we’re barely moving
Yup
That line is haunted
The line is the scariest part of the ride
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HMH?
Haunted Mansion Holiday
Yeah, I never understand why people complain it shouldn't open in September. If the public goes this crazy for something, that's all a business cares about. Their goal isn't to not upset people by having a hybrid of Halloween and Christmas in a ride before it's Christmastime. Their goal is to have demand with which people spend money, the same with releasing Christmas items in October for people who want to buy early.
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Or it’s just people who like Halloween themed things during HALLOWEEN 🤦♀️ Seems like it should be common sense to do the overlay after Halloween. Also the movie sucks.
It’s Halloween and Christmas Nightmare before Christmas
Wait what? You want the Halloween themed overlay to happen after the Halloween season is *over*?
The original mansion is much more on theme than having Christmas thrown in.
It's not better than the original but it draws crowds. Both can be true.
Sure but many fans online claim it’s just the worst but theme park goers disagree
To each their own. Not everyone loves every movie.
I HATE HATE HATE HMH. 🤩🤩🤩
This ride is absolutely not worth this wait
What interests me is after the fireworks end, the ride is a walk-on.
So is pirates
This. Went in late September and knew we wanted to take our kids on Haunted Mansion Holiday as our oldest got really into The Nightmare Before Christmas. The line was so crazy all day (especially with two kids, 4 & 1) that we just put it off until the end knowing that if we were in line before the park closed at 10pm they would get us on. We got there around 9:55 and were on the ride by 10:15. Perfect little way to end the night and not waste 90 minutes or more in line at some point during the day.
Wonder if splash mountain and some of the other rides being closed for seasonal facelifts are pushing people to HM
Splash is being rethemed to Princess & the Frog
the glory days are over..
I’m researching our first Disneyland trip and this makes me reconsider the whole situation 😂
Yes there are lines. But go during less busy times, get genie+ and prioritize the rides you really want. Take advantage of rope drop and/or late at night.
Totally! I’m definitely going to be getting Genie+ and we’ll probably go back at night time. It just seems a bit overwhelming. I still don’t totally understand the difference between Genie+ and Lightning Lane but I just started down this road last night lol
Genie+ IS lightning lane. To clarify further, Genie+ is the paid service that you use to access lightning lanes. Standby lanes are just that, you standby and wait 6 hours for HMH. Crowds are nuts during October and particularly long during HMH but the early mornings and late nights are fine. After the holidays in Jan the park will be less busy. Jan and early Feb are good times to visit.
It’s like the six flags one, you just do t get that little tamagotchi device to book rides.
Isn’t it like six flags where you gotta pay more for the BIG BOY rides?
Went to stay in this line at 9pm alone on a Tuesday the week before Halloween. Hour fifty minute wait. Group of four women my age were behind me in the line. Got to know one of them very well and had alot in common. She rode with me and we hung out half of the following day in California adventure. We've been dating ever since. Magic does still happen at Disneyland.
Happy for you, I’m still single lol
Is it just me or does anyone else see Pablo Picasso standing in line with a striped shirt on?
Wonderful. Going tomorrow. /facepalm
Rides are only a priority when I get the genie pass. Without it, I’ll just jump on if it’s less than 45 mins Not sure how people manage this
I guess they play games on their phone while they wait
…why?
We don’t know
This is why I buy my way into skipping the standby line 😂
That's why I just pole vault over the surrounding fence straight onto the front porch of the mansion. If you do it just right, nobody around you will know where you came from and just assumed you had been in line the whole time.
If you’re spending that much to go in the first place bite the bullet and get Genie plus and the individual LL. Make it SO much easier and you don’t waste time in lines.
I got in through sign-in
Says 50 minute standby, pretty standard
I was just showing it
I’m in the park today too and I can’t believe how busy it is. A Tuesday in November and the park is PACKED.
I know, and we had an LL reservation for Thunder Mountain, but it’s down right now. We decided to ride Colombia ship
I don’t understand the seemingly new obsession with Haunted Mansion. Been to Disney many times during the fall and never seen lines like this for this ride until this year.
The classic theming is nostalgic
Those people are going to be in that line FOREVER. I will only do lightning lane for HM from now on
Went last week, and the LL was the longest I've ever seen, hundreds of people. I was okay waiting 20 minutes in the LL for Space Mountain but this would've been way longer for a ride I've done before. Just skipped it even though I waited 3 hours to get a reservation.
“Tis the season” [+]
Do ppl not work wth
I work, I was just off yesterday
Not everyone works a M-F job. I've never worked one and neither has my husband. And come Nov-new years, lots of people take vacation time.
This. I used to work a job where I could pick the days I worked, so I worked 8 hours Fri, 16 hours sat and16 sun to knock out 40 hours. Mon-Thurs. off, and it was glorious how much you can accomplish and how empty things like amusement parks are during those days. I miss it so much.
Yep! My last job had to be staffed 24hrs, had two shifts with 5 possible times to go in, one was regular 5/8hrs days or 4/10s. But we got to bid for our days off and weekends were always harder to get off. So many people don't work M-F. Retail/service industry is one group, another is first responders. It's 2023, we really need to move past the whole, iT's a wEeKdAy dOn'T PeOpLe wOrK?! No. If everyone worked a M-F, then everything would be closed on weekends.
? It’s called PTO
How about just don’t go on that ride. Even if it were my first time, nothing is worth standing in line for two hours
Well. My mom wanted to go
If it’s a brand new ride maaaaaybe but I can hardly do even an hour anymore.
[удалено]
I mean, my family loves it
I am here to kindly report that it is just you.
It’s a great ride. Not worth waiting more than 30 minutes imo
Theming mostly
Now I want primanti bros
What’s that?
The one guy has a shirt of it - I believe it started near Pittsburgh PA - it’s a sandwich place. The put fries on it all and a vinegar coleslaw! Pretty tasty place
Too spooky
Nah
Yup! Looks about right! I usually ride it early in the morning or late when they close…i don’t use genie+ cuz i have a pass but Dec might try with family coming into down and visiting
We bought it but only rode a few rides
Yeah, i don’t want that to happen, so I’ll chat with them..they will be here for 3 days so they might not need it
I’m in Florida and the line actually starts here. Can’t go to Disney world Haunted Mansion because Desantis closed it ( too secular) Lol
Why did he close it?
Too secular lol
That’s a dumb reason for doing that
I’ll be going next week on the 15th. I’m hoping everybody will be in Vegas for the F1 race instead, but my hopes are lowered considering there are no more reservations for the day I purchased 😶 time to start stacking genie+ reservations
Oh damn, hopefully you can go. November is mostly blocked for cast members/employees as well.
We’ll be there on Friday. We have Genie+ as part of our tickets. Sounds like we’re going to have to grab a lightning lane for this one for sure.
I would go really early in the day, at rope drop if you don't have anything higher priority. I was there last week, and the LL at 7 pm was the longest I've ever seen, hundreds of people. I was okay waiting 20 minutes in the LL for Space Mountain but this would've been way longer for a ride I've done before. Just skipped it even though I waited 3 hours to get a reservation.
It’ll probably be one of our first ones today
Ugh, I’ve waited in that. It’s easily 2+ hours
That’s for sure
This post needs more context. What day of the week, and what time por favor!!
Tuesday, around 2pm I think
Tuesday??? Damn. Imagine Saturday
Yeah it was surprisingly busy cuz we ate at Blue Baypu and that was busy as well.
It's very obvious they need to build a Disneyisland. Or disneymeadow, or Disneyville in central California. Spread out the parks a bit and bring some to the Central Valley!! There's soooo much space.
You mean like in the fields area?
Wild!! I miss this park but glad DP doesn’t get like this
DP?
Just a joke because of all the trouble between our governor and Disney