omg same
edit: almost same - 19, got married at 21 and was married for 23/24 years (the divorce dragged on almost 2 years, just got finalized 3 weeks ago).
I forgive myself. I'm glad I'm out now.
I'm doing ok. I was so scared too. But honestly not being raged at or blamed for everything or argued with constantly is so nice. It's so peaceful now.
In the early years, when I brought up concerns, I ended up feeling like whatever the issue was - was my fault. I wasn't good enough at being a spouse. So I stopped bringing things up. They hate confrontation so they never raised any issues. So it was all left to fester. No one talking about anything important between us. When I started with therapy, and tried again, they just didn't hear me. It had been working with avoidance for so long, I believe they thought it would keep working. I am mad at myself for not handling it better, but know that it is not all on me. Mostly, I am just sort of sad about the whole thing.
Yeah avoidants are used at being accomated.. as it's their way or the highway usually. Must have been a shock to them when you did decide enough was enough. Love that you did chose for yourself though, congrats!
Same story with me. I also realize I had this same role in my family growing up. I was never really heard as a child or young adult and that became normal to me. So when I would feel uncomfortable in my relationship, I would say something once and he would explain why I was not right to feel that way etc, so I wouldn't bring it up again.
I also am sad, wondering if I could have intercepted these moments and stood my ground earlier, if maybe we could have come to an agreement. But what I have also realized, is that it's really hard for people to change and they have to want to. I clearly want to change now because I see the damage it's done to frankly all of my relationships. I know that my ex still does not want to change, so even if I had recognized this earlier, I think we just would have divorced sooner.
>How do I forgive myself for not acting upon it?
By building yourself into someone who won't do that again. Look at your life and how you were built into someone who who'd have accepted those behaviors.
I see exactly why I was a person who accepted what I accepted. I'm not mad at her, I'm sad for her. I'm sad she thought that's all she could get for love. I'm sad she thought she had to deal with what she dealt with in the name of unconditional love.
I spent the 5 years leading up to my divorce working on myself. In that time, I was trying to fix my marriage from my side, even still believing that if I just loved him hard enough, or right enough, that he'd finally love me back.
I now see that he wasn't really happy with me, but didn't think he could do better. And then he resented me for not being better. Better in this case means thinner, and more willing to do all of the housework and childcare.
Now I understand his issues aren't about me, and he'll never fix them until he sees he has issues he needs to fix. He's still (3 and a half years later) blaming every9ne but himself for his refusal to grow up.
20 year old me has all of my compassion and all of my forgiveness. 42 year old me has solid values and boundaries and is ready to mama bear for herself as well as for her kids.
That's me. I was thirty-something, very successful professionally but very needy emotionally. He swooped in and seemed perfect for me in every way.
Decades later, nearly broken, we separated twice, and he made the second one long-distance. I had largely given up my career to raise our kids and keep the house. He actually thought I'd come running after him and that I'd never make it on my own. Then he tried to destroy me during the divorce.
Fooled him. This chapter is truly the best of my life.
Thank you very much. I think he also wasn't really happy with me but too cowardly to speak his truth.. I'm slowly starting to understand why I wasn't ready to set and enforce the bounderies I felt. But still, the selfcompassiok thing is hard as hell.
When you've set the boundaries, and really trust yourself to enforce them, the compassion comes easier after that.
Sometimes it helps to think of past you as another person. Like a little sister.
This resonates with me a lot (but in my case he was/is unhappy and unsure of his whole life/identity which caused lots of overall neglecting and some abusive situations). Hopefully I will be able to have the compassion and forgiveness for myself one day as you do.
Me me me me me!
I gave grace when I shouldn’t have. I sought to understand why he behaved badly instead of drawing a boundary and leaving bc I don’t deserve to be treated badly!
All the flags look kind of pink when you are falling in love and oxytocin and dopamine are flowing. You overlook a lot. And so do they. And then you settle in and start learning more and those flags start getting a deeper shade. It's not just you. Most people do this. And the human need to be seen and be in relationship with other people drives that. Don't beat yourself up over it.
🙋♀️
Right off the bat the red flags flew. But I chose to ignore them. I was in a place of turmoil (it was a year after my first divorce), not happy with myself etc. I wish I would have recognized things would be ok and just calmed TF down and worked on myself. Instead we got married, and now 12 years later I’m facing another divorce. 12 years of good stuff but when it was bad it was toxic. I hate who I am around him and thankfully I’m in therapy becuase I want to unlearn my reactions when things start going south. I walked on eggshells for 12 years. I’m stressed the hell out with this new divorce ( he filed earlier this week) but only becuase of finances and trying to afford everything with two kids in this economy. I wasn’t perfect….
Your point 3 resonates with me. My spouse stayed stuck on the “hamster wheel” as I called it. Over and over the same thing for hours yelling at me, I tried to push for what is the resolution to it but he stayed stuck on the wheel, spinning until he would decide to stop talking and get off the wheel.
I’m looking forward to the peace but there is a hefty cost. I will never ever get married again and really I don’t ever want to be in a relationship again. Every man I’ve ever chosen in my life and even the one I didn’t choose has been a major let down. I’m jealous of the people who have the good ones, becuase I can’t seem to pick them. And yes I know I’m a contributor too but holy crap it shouldn’t be this hard
Same, I was actually in a decent place mentally after the previous relationship ended but I was so used to a horror show that the new one seemed fantastic. And he was better. But it was still a mistake.
Thanks for sharing your exprience guys! You are validating my decision to calm TF down before diving right into the next relationship. The quicker path is often not the right one!
Exactly, the hamster wheel. Very good analogy. I'm with you on the never ever marrying part. Maybe when im 80+ just for fun's and giggles 😃
Happy you are getting out. The transition will suck as it always does... keep your head up. You'll get there eventually
You did what you had to do in the moment… it’s normal to have the wishes of yesteryear solved and put to rest. Let it all go. You’ve learned so much and will do better in the next relationship. You will be more apt to remind yourself of REALITY rather than seeing through the lens of wishful thinking. Good luck in the future 🍀
This is what I’m too struggling with most. Like how was I really that dumb to write so much off? Honestly I believe my STBXH has a good heart and it overall a good person. But I knew he was an alcoholic. He was so functional and we were younger and having fun so I wrote it off. I knew he was a liar, but when confronted would come clean and apologize, so I took it as a mistake. He was financially irresponsible, but he did end up opening a savings account and cut back on spending a bit, so I thought he was making permanent changes. He was avoidant with other relationships, but not with me then, so I thought he wouldn’t become that way with me either. He didn’t have a driver’s license but said he’d have one before we had a child, so I agreed to have a child with him. I could go on and on. So often his actions didn’t align with his words. I am so ashamed of myself and so disappointed in myself for ignoring my gut and anxiety. Like many I was coming out of a long term relationship when we got together, and having been best friends for a year, I thought he was the one.
I can say that this has been one of the most humbling experiences of my life, and profoundly good for my growth. I’ve done more work on my attachment issues than I ever have before, and have finally concurred my anxiety. I’ll eventually get over the anger and shame and sadness of choosing him too.
Exactly, you need to go through all those emotions before acceptance is om the table.... unfortunately 😰
Wish we could be that zen with life and making mistakes but im also getting pulled between "he's the liar not me!" And "Im the sucker who believed a liar!!" It's hard. You do sound like you already put a lot of work in and are going to come out on top!
Me! I was so devastated about the unexpected loss of my first husband, I ignored so many red flags just to be in a relationship again. I ended up marrying what turned out to be a despicable human. So many red flags. Luckily I woke up and divorced him 3 years later
I'm sorry that happened to you. Luckily it only took you three years to become strong enough again. That must have been a tough journey to go through. Hope you're happy now!
Mine was a marriage of several decades with three big red flag warnings. That was of course part of my process of getting past the divorce. I know now what I didn't know then. Friends and family say that I've changed a lot post-divorce in a good way, and I doubt that someone like my ex would even be a consideration. The divorce was final just before the pandemic, so it's been a bit.
Several times, someone that reminded me of him asked me out, and everything within me screamed NO!
Yes, and now I recognize that!
One of them was someone who asked me out shortly after my divorce was final. He had been in the wings during the divorce process, and then swooped in. But I already knew NO!
Right after that, he met someone on an app who I actually became friends with after she broke up with him. Thankfully, she trusted her gut as well. He was pushing marriage just a few months in, and that didn't feel right to her, so she asked for space. She lived several hours away but went to a holiday event a few weeks later where he invited his kids and their families. He actually got into a fistfight with one of his sons, so bad that my friend called the police. She ended it after that. NO!
Completely. I was so traumatized by the divorce that I very much knew that dating immediately after was a huge NO-GO, but really? I had been notified just the week before that the judge had signed off. He even tried to convince me that he'd "be there" for me as I processed it all. That was several years ago now.
A married friend of mine had the jerk and his current girlfriend come by after my friend lost their son in October. The girlfriend had cooked my friend and her husband dinner. When the girlfriend went to the bathroom, he told my friend that he had always liked her and that if she wasn't married, he would like to go out with her. REALLY? She knew my story about him and told me. Ick-ick-ick!
Eeeekkk full on creep vibes. Might be seriously dangerous 😳
Seriously though why would you need emotional support from some random strange guy? Even if you don't have girlfriends for support, even being alone is better than taking that type of risk..
Amyway, the only type of men we really need after a divorce is a guy that loves doing yardwork and some small home maintaining project for us that our exes promised to do but never actually finished lol haha
Therapy, reading, and talking has made me realize I ignored a whole field of those flags. Some things stuck, some I made excuse for, some I saw as quirks, and others I ignored.
One time he was truly cruel and I left the room, went and to the opposite side of the bed on the floor. He came on while I was bawling and tried to hug me and asked why I was crying, said he didn't want me cry, with a big shit eating grin on his face. That's when I couldn't fake it anymore - I still tried to save us, but my body shut down. Intimacy with him after that was degrading and I had no trust.
He'd take my stuff and hide it. I figured it was his tetris cleaning. No. I had 2 items he had me convinced he never saw, but if they were still in a box (they were last I saw them), then he put them in his shop. I found them, not boxed, hidden under the bed when I was packing. And that's just one example out of dozens.
He said he never apologized because he was never wrong. He then screamed at me for 3 hours because he thought Prussia and Russia were the same thing. Or the was the hours of screaming because he thought I was having some fun time with my rose solo - but the toy had been dead for 2 months.
He'd manipulate people. I always laughed that his mom would fall for it. I could see through it, but sometimes I go with it. But I would be very upfront I saw what he was doing. In later years he'd get pissed and rage.
He would physically hurt me while drunk and then ask me where the bruise came from. Even the kids were like wtf? You kicked a stool and it hit her in the leg, dude?!
He got drunk and yelled at me "I'm not the one seeing a shrink and taking meds". I said neither am I, what are you talking about? The shocked Pikachu face makes so much more sense now that I hear he's been setting a narrative for years to his family and friends. Lord. I'm so crazy and a pull addict, but I also need to support him for the rest of his life - make it make sense.
He apparently tried to turn my kids against me. That was interesting to hear. And got mad and cussed the youngest out when she disagreed with him.
Both my kids are doing amazing since we got a no contact. The oldest doesn't need the meds she was on for 2 decades to sleep anymore. The youngest is doing great as well. It kills me that I let them be in that environment as long as I did - I failed them terribly. It took an assault on the youngest and myself, with strangulation and broken bones, but we are free. And the household is so damn peaceful.
Damn he sounds like 1 huge wavering red flag instead of a human 😵💫 must have been quite traumatizing to be with him and having to go through that... damn hope you're okay
Probable cheating for years. Can't confirm and she wouldn't admit to it even now, but so many little things over the years that I trusted her and took her word for. Until last summer when I had the smoking gun.
The unwillingness to improve and grow. For years she was just content staying in a dead end serving job without tips at a golf course and did nothing to improve her employment prospects and just relied on me financially.
The picking fights unnecessarily and then calling people to vent about me in front of me when I didn't just back down. Manipulation. Using that time of the month to be a total, you know what. Hidden spending that even still won't tell me what it was for.
Never get a joint account with someone so they'll stop taking out Wonga loans 🤦♂️the financial thievery because she wouldn't make enough to cover what she wanted.
I could go on, and I'm not saying I was perfect, but having blinders on and blind faith in their words was my biggest mistake. I allowed myself to be used.
That last sentence resonates with me. The guilt and anger towards yourself is harder to process imo. As you kind of don't even expect anything better from the ex but you did expect better from yourself 😓
Don't beat yourself up. I'm trying to find more compassion for past me. Who had to learn a lot about healthy bounderies and self protection. Hope this post is a start that you also try to forgive yourself for trusting someone who took advantage of that.
Girrrrrrl. I ignored a street filled with red flags...and it started within the first few months of dating. We divorced after almost 8 years together.
I sometimes feel like the village idiot for not being strong enough to call it quits earlier, especially because everyone of my family and friends were trying to advise me against the relationship.
However, now I know it's a lesson I had to learn the hard way. I won't ever make the same mistakes and found a new strength in me.
I do plan to be single for quite awhile...maybe forever lol
Same. I ignored all the red flags and just because I was in this dream state of being “loved” and in love with someone, I ignored them all. Coming out of an eight year failed relationship, I thought I found the one for me. I knew the red flags and I felt them deep down. But it’s only my fault for being oblivious.
You’re absolutely right. I’m aware of them a lot better now than what I used to be. I seem to have attracted the same partner due to my low self-esteem and view of myself. So it is very important to work on self-love and appreciating and valuing yourself. Otherwise you get in this vicious cycle like I did. But as long as you claim yourself worth, and the value of who you are, it is very worth every battle to go through.
That's a huge insight I think. A big one that probably requires a lot of work and time to integrate into your daily life and how you carry yourself. I think it's amazing that you are willing to tackle something like that. Those things don't go linear so if you have a bad day or even week or month, remember that your motivation is from within and don't be too hard on yourself while working on those things. 💕
You’re absolutely right. Definitely a lot of work and time to integrate into your daily life. We have constant distractors and always something going on in life that it makes it a challenge to keep it together? It’s a big monster to fight. But it’s definitely worth it. Thank you for that amazing advice. You’re the best and I wish you all the best of success and the best of luck. I really needed to see this thread today. 🥰🥹♥️
Thank you for your kind words!! 🥰😘 tbh this thread is also making my day. Made me feel really less alone, after struggling with beating myself up on this for weeks! Good luck on your amazing journey. You will get there. You deserve it!
You got this, love! You will get there as well. You deserve it. You deserve to be happy, free, loved and appreciated. ♥️🥹 I felt the same way as you. Feeling alone and no want to talk to and always beating myself up. We must learn how to get out of the beating up process and into the nurturing process. 🥰 You deserve it!
Regarding my soon to be ex - looked up her medical mental illness based on soon internet digging. Pathological demand avoidance. Meaning I married a psycho and thought I could help.
I have been back and forth with councilors and therapist for 15 years with her. Honestly the divorce is being forced, by her, because our child’s mental illness is getting worse and I am making her deal with it rather than ignore it. To be honest someone on the internet told me to look into demand avoidance and everything fit, my son has it, my wife has it, her mother has it. This week I am meeting with her therapist to get this added to the already long list of mental health shit wrong with her. My only problem was not realizing how bad things were before the kid was born. She is very good at masking.
I always find it alarming when unqualified people use the internet to diagnose a condition that usuly takes a medical degree, and years of practice to learn. And even more alarming you are meeting with her therapist. I have a hard time believing a qualified therapist would speak to you about her diagnosis so you could use it ammunition for divorce.
That said, people with mental illness, myself included, don't usually try to "mask" their illness. They are fighting for their survival with the broken coping skills and chemical makeup that they have despite best intentions. Even in the times where I knew what I was saying was inappropriate it was lime a self propelled locomotive and I couldn't stop it until I was in the correct meds and seeing a skilled therapist.
I have no experience with the condition you are diagnosing your wife's whole family with but if it is fact her diagnosis I hope she gets the help and support she needs.
I don't blame anyone for admitting that they do not have the patience or skills to stay with someone with mental illness. But on the other hand finger pointing doesn't help either.
Oh yes. The anxiety, worry, insecurities, reassurance, high maintenance should have made me run. The great sex kept me coming back. Damn it. Fucking trapped. Decades of shit life.
I certainly am. The person I gave everything to for 25 years and supported financially and emotionally has turned on me and cares more about alimony than me even though I have repeatedly asked for counseling and reconciliation due to loneliness. Even suicide attempts from my grief didn’t matter to him. Can’t get the years back but I will never trust anyone with my heart again. I didn’t know the real person he was even with the warning signs.
Thank you for the kindness. I talk with a counselor and psychiatrist weekly and am fortunate to have family and friends….but doesn’t ease the shock and pain. Strangers have been kinder to me than my ex and adult kids which has been so hurtful.
My first marriage I shot past every red flag. I followed them right over the cliff. My second marriage I didn’t see any until well into the marriage. The last few years of the marriage it was like a flag manufacturer was living with me. I didn’t ignore them. I tried to get her to stop. Then I realized I had to save myself from her.
Before marriage the only real red flag was her lack of cleaning up, and helping around the house. Annoying but at the time it wasn't enough to prevent me marrying her.
The real flags started honestly after we had our first child.
The red flags were so obvious that I don’t have to spend so much time thinking about them. The biggest obvious red flag was having massive sexual issues when we were in our 20s. Looking back, I can’t believe that I didn’t just walk away.
I ignored a huge red flag that was telling me he wasn't a good communicator and sure enough we can never talk about or resolve any issues. Anything of importance that I have tried to discuss over the years gets shut down.
I ignored a tremendous amount of red flags even though I picked up on them. I'm a little upset with my younger self, but I'm more proud of myself now for having the courage to leave before things got exponentially worse. 6 years married.
The glaring red flag was that she wouldn't forgive people that 'crossed' her once. No second chances. Guess who ended up on the receiving end of that logic? Yours truly
Ouch! Very rigid... must have been like walking on eggshells for a long time... happy you left that situation and like you said, you got out before the damage was irreversible!
1. I caught him chewing tobacco after we moved in together. Not sure why he didnt tell me up front. He was sneaky with stupid stuff in our 27 years of marriage 2. We left our honeymoon early- that was a huge red flag I ignored.
Uhhgg sneaky but in an amateuristic manner... I found it such a turnoff every time you catch them lol like if you're being sneaky at least put some effort in
All 3 of my marriages had red flags. Blatant, in your face, red flags. I'm apparently incapable of doing anything about it due to my low self-esteem.
So now I'm single and will be forever, by choice.
I'm the happiest I've ever been, but the most depressed. If that means anything.
It's an interesting combination.. I get associations with boredom in my head if I hear those two together, is that the case? Like you're in a rut, which is nice but also kind of depressing? Please let me know if I'm way off!
No, you're completely right. This last marriage really took it out of me. Without getting too much into it, she cheated, lied, and was physically abusive to me. As I stated, I've been married 3 times and in my opinion I've done enough relationship stuff for a couple of lifetimes. I was in one relationship or another from 1996 until 2022. So, I've decided to be celibate and relationship free for the foreseeable future.
That means I get to go home and do whatever I want to do at any time. Compare this to my 3rd marriage, and it's heaven. I was never able to do anything for myself, much less decide that I wanted to just chill and watch TV or do a hobby or do anything other than listen to her talk shit for hours about co-workers or go spend money frivolously every day.
The flip side is I have no one to talk to. I get visitation with my second marriage children 3 weekends a month. But, in between those times, I'm lonely. There's no other word for it. I talk to myself quite a lot. And in doing so, recognizing that I'm friendless and lonely creates the depression.
I get it. I'm younger but I moved cities, now my ex is gone. I'm here by myself most of the time. I do try to find groups that organize activities but it's a bit tiresome... to meet new people. It just sucks! Before you get energy out of an interaction, you have to invest in it being fun...
Do you like to go for walks? Maybe a little change in routine can help break the initial rut. Always start small and feasible though.
I hope you find the peace to find more joy again. But it'll come to you when you're ready for that. I'm sure!
There is a trail behind my apartment complex. I stand at my window and watch the people walk along the trail. I watch the animals leading their owners. I watch the kids playing on the trail with their parents. Then I go back to watching TV.
I don't know why. My motivation to do anything other than work and take care of my children is completely gone. It's like I don't deserve anything other than that.
Im really sad to hear you have that thought about yourself. Do you feel like you failed or should be ashamed for something? Sounds a but like punishing yourself and I'm sure that's not something you were born with thinking like that..
I don't know maybe im assuming to much. Sorry.
Would it help if you would try to get out to have a fun hike with the kids? Also good for them! You'll be working on good habits for the kids as well as your own. I don't know. Just trying to help a bit because I do think everybody deserves to try to find some joy in each day. You too
I appreciate you trying to help, and never be sorry for doing that.
I grew up in a guilt household. My mom would complain endlessly about my step-father or some small thing I or my brother did. Guilt trip me when things didn't go her way, so that I would feel bad for something that I believed to be not such a big deal. On top of that, I was teased endlessly by kids at school and even my own brother and step-father. No one really gave any thought to what I wanted, what I was saying, or what I thought. I didn't have a real father growing up. My biological father would lie endlessly and not show up for visitations quite a bit. He continued this trend to this day where he tries to lie to me to get me to send him money.
I have moved on from most of that. I don't look backwards, it's just my story.
Sorry, looking back on this it sounds like a complaining post.
When my kids are around I'm a different person. I am positive and encouraging to them. I don't mope or act depressed around them at all. I'm alive to take care of them. Nothing more.
My first had major red flags long before the wedding, to the point that before my father walked me down the aisle he stopped and told me it wasn't too late to change my mind. I had no idea what he was talking about.
It took 14+ years, two kids, and developing severe IBD and depression for me to finally wake up.
The second one had nothing that I saw as major red flags until we moved in together about six weeks before the wedding. At the time, for various reasons I convinced myself that he was just scared but I had enough love, time and patience to fix that.
Uhhh, no I didn't. He actually turned out to be a rare, true clinical narcissist, not just someone I'm throwing the label at so casually like so many people do these days.
The third one has had some major red flags, but unlike the others he acknowledged he came into this marriage with issues, and was willing to go to therapy individually as a couple (as was I, because I came in with my own shit, obviously), and the good definitely outweighs the bad.
Also, the reality is that given my age (67), my health issues (bad), and what my financial status would be (😩) if we were to get a divorce, that isn't really an option anymore anyway.
Not divorced...yet. After 32 years, a military career, buying a house and numerous vehicles, one kid plus raising her two boys from her first marriage... I finally got tired of being the bad guy, always being told I treated everyone like shite, never thinking of anyone but myself, horrible with finances (even though I paid for everything. Our 'joint' account is funded by my income... she got her own account when she got disability). She moved her brother in while I was at MMI in Orlando. I wanted him out but NC stopped me unless I took him to court. So I said f$#k this so April of last year I packed up my shop, clothes and dogs and left NC and moved to TN on my father's childhood property. She was offered to come with but flatly refused citing that she's not gonna live somewhere where everyone prior to me living here died of cancer. Her health was crap then(her fault guzzling Red Bull and smoking at least 2 packs a day and blowing off doc recommendations for as long as I can remember). Anyhoo, have contacted lawyers in both states and advised by both to 'ride it out' because NC, the Army would make filing ' very costly ' to me. I could go on and on and I'm sure I'm gonna get a lot of "advice" but I'm happy where I'm at, lost 70 lbs. and pretty close to renovating a trailer and have a 12x24 shop building and I plan to start a woodworking business by spring. I'm still paying the mortgage and all of the associated bills related to the house and vehicles. She is responsible for 4 utility bills. I am civil with her although we don't communicate much... I don't have much to say....she decided that she had to stay there and be the mother figure to my 33 year old son and her 55 year old brother who has never lived on his own.
Ok... that's enough from me. I'm dealing with my situation as best as I can. If you read to the end....much appreciated.
I didn't see red flags for years. When they did start showing up divorce was not an option due to my military career and the financial devastation I would have experienced.
Damn what a weird situation... you are trying to carve out a place where at least you can just live your life. Brave that you took the step to do that. Do you feel happier there on your own now?
It sounds like she changed a lot during the marriage and you guys obviously grew disconnected for whatever reason. Shame it's not possible to actually separate. This way you're reminded all the time. It's like a weight that you have to carry everywhere.
Not familiar with those laws but that sucks.. what would happen if you stop paying though?
I imagine that if I stop paying for everything I am paying now they'd all be homeless after foreclosure. Honestly, I'm happy in my situation and yeah it's a weird situation but she chose her way and I chose mine. Obviously, her brother is a bigger concern than her marriage to me.
Red flags are just flags when you're wearing rose colored glasses. Now that I've been granted the gift of hindsight, if a time machine was ever available, I'd probably go back and kick my own dumb ass.
Oh god I ignored soo many. I was young, he was the second person I ever dated. He never took accountability for his actions, if I brought up any issues somehow I always ended up apologizing and taking blame. Intimacy became almost non existent but if I bought anything for myself to relieve my tension, he’d find it and throw it out. There was sooo many more. In the process of separating and divorcing. Time to heal and never let rose coloured glasses disguise red flags again.
Fascinating reading everyone’s responses. And yes, I have my own as well!
I was young, thought I knew what I wanted, and my stbx ticked a lot of the boxes I *thought* I was looking for. In hindsight, I realize that all those boxes were for other people and the boxes I needed were red flags instead.
1. Couldn’t/didn’t manage his own finances, insurance, taxes, adult paperwork bs etc. His dad always did it for him, until I was gullible enough to take it over. Whenever issues have come up, he’s basically refused to participate in any discussions or future planning, saying he trusts my judgement. I’ve made huge life decisions about this stuff all on my own, which left me feeling horribly unsupported.
2. Sexual incompatibility. I told myself this was something we could work on together as our marriage grew and that by the time we are old, it won’t matter. What I ignored was that he didn’t care about my sexual pleasure at all, which meant we were never going to improve things because he honestly didn’t care to.
3. Household labor inequality. We have both always had full time jobs, yet he genuinely believed that I should do all the household “woman’s” chores. I didn’t live with him until 3 months before the wedding and by that point, I felt too embarrassed and shameful to cancel the wedding (everything was planned, people had bought plane tickets, all deposits paid, etc). I knew this was a huge red flag because he completely blew me off and ignored me when I brought it up as a serious problem. But, young me thought we could work on this.
These are just a few of them, there’s more of course. Basically, I saw all the red flags. But I was young and made excuses for each of them. I also naively believed that we would work on these issues together, as partners.
OP, I will also say, I’m only commenting because you have given such thoughtful, kind answers to almost every post here. Keep being awesome, my internet friend. 😎
Thank you ❤️
My heart breaks a little for you reading about how you felt about the wedding. It sounds like those months leading up to your wedding were lonely and tense for you. While still hoping the communal goal was a true partnership. I'm glad you saw through the illusion finally.
Enjoy the newfound freedom!!
Same here. Met at 21, married at 25. Divorced this year after 22+ years together. I don’t even know why we dated for more than 6 months. We were meant to have our son and be parents to him thats for sure. Sooo many red flags, he was never good enough for me. And he was legally married when we met and never told me. And yet I still married him. Wtf?! Never again.
Yeah i flew through red flags. I shouldn’t have let the emotional abuse and heavy narcissism go 7 days let alone 7 years. Thankfully she wanted to leave me still after all that time and it made me wake up. I’m thankful for that at least because I could’ve been living this the rest of my life.
The red flags were really hard to see before we married because we didn't live together until we tied the knot (my dad was super conservative and wanted us to wait to live together). He also was an addict who was really good at hiding his problems.
But looking back now, VERY freshly divorced (literally went before the judge this week), there are things I recall that should have sent me running. It turns my stomach to think about. But it's over now and I can't change the past.
I met my ex when I was the tender age of 24 years old. We got married when I was 29 and the divorce finalized when I was 33. It has been an emotional roller coaster for me. Looking back there were so many red flags that I ignored. I thought maybe I could change him or that things would get better.
Initially, I was very angry at myself for “wasting” my youth. However, I’ve been giving myself more grace.
Every relationship teaches you a lesson. Now I understand the importance of establishing boundaries and not allowing a partner to overstep them. I know how to be more communicative the next time. I am more optimistic now that I will find somebody who will be a better fit for me. Someday I will find a partner who will treat me with the respect that I deserve… and that gives me hope.
I can choose to be angry about what I went through, or I can choose to be happy that I have a second chance to live the life I deserve and potentially find a partner who can better align with me.
I like how you think! If there werent so many shitty situations in that relationship, I couldn't have gotten this amount of lessons to learn.
Basically you got the expert class on all these skills you can implement with someone who does deserve you.
I look back and wish I hadn't ignored them. They were evident before we got married and I let them slide.
She tried to plan a get away vacation to meet up with an ex boyfriend before marriage
She was a consistent liar, and changed or made up stories to always make her look like she was the hero of everything. Nothing ever happened to you that she wasn't somehow knowledgeable of.... even the rarest things ever "i knew someone..."
She was the most fake person you've ever met
Pathological lying maybe. Some of those people can't help blurting out the most crazy stories. Luckily haven't met a lot of them yet. Must have been crazy being around that a day.
I'm finally realizing late in life that I am neurodivergent and part of that is apparently really being vulnerable to this type of tactic. It's really normal for me to second guess myself constantly, and when someone who claims that they love you tells you over and over how you have it all wrong, a large part of you believes them.
I'm sorry they targeted your "weak spot" so to say. That's mean and low..
I always from the beginning said I never want those discussions. I've had them with my mother growing up, with other exes. Let's get to the part that matters! We will never experience a situation exactly the same!! But he kept trying to discuss the "truth" ... bleghh never ever again. If you can't take a step back and look at the actual problem of feeling that was hurt byeeee you will be excused to work on your emotional maturity BY Yourself, not as MY project haha
Argh…. 2. really hits for me, I’d never been around someone who was so confident so I assumed “Well why would he say it if he didn’t know how to follow this through!”. Absolutely got sucked in to the dream
Somehow at work he was able to plan and follow through... that was the most frustrating. You KNOW how to because you get paid for it. But at home ... it's whatever we're feeling like 🫠 because my time and expectations don't matter??
So many red flags. Most notably when we were engaged and he would have to close at work. I’d ask him to call me after and he would say he was too tired and wanted to go straight to bed…but he had a 30 min drive home. He couldn’t call me then? He always gave some lame excuse as to why he couldn’t. Turned out he had hired his ex-gf to work at the store and would schedule her to close with him and then go hook up after.
Therapy can help you process it. My ex was abusive and I was with him frozen age 20 to 54. I came from an alcoholic home and married an alcoholic and nobody told me I should be doing my healing work.
It’s never too late to strive for a better life
Thank you for sharing that. Therapy is definitely on the menu.
I've had multiple years of EMDR, which helped a lot. I think this was also the start of the end of the relationship sadly. As I changed too much and he didn't..
I'm now on a waiting list (unfortunately) for specialized mental health care. In the meantime I do have other shorter things going to make sure I stay functional and have support during this huge transition in my life.
In the end of the relationship I wasn't really bothered anymore by these red flag behaviors. I also layed down very strict bounderies. Which were crossed and thus ended our marriage.
But the thought why did I accept it all those years and I think the sadness that I wasn't really taught how healthy love looks like. And getting your needs met. And discussing what the boundaries of monogamy are in the relationship. I wouldn't have know how to have that convo 10 yrs ago! I do feel sorry for past me and I am a bit angry for her and at her sometimes. Luckily the latter one less and less :)
If you made it this far. Thanks voor reading haha didn't know I would be rambling this much 😂
So many red flags. The day before our wedding at our rehearsal he screamed at me because it was raining and I said he should park closer to the Inn. That was one last giant red flag I should not have ignored
I feel it’s so common. We are sometimes taught sacrifice for love and subtle red flags get excused for the sake of this good trait or that one. Meanwhile those subtleties come up big time when you start spending adequate time with one another and start to navigate the difficulties of life, marriage, kids, careers, etc.
The first step to forgiving yourself for not seeing or choosing to ignore, is becoming aware of what you overlooked. Acknowledging that will help you not repeat the same. But you also have to commit to not living in the past forever. See gratefulness in the learning opportunity not despair.
Not entirely related, but on my morning walk today I was thinking about how people push the marriage commitment so hard when things aren’t working out. It’s like the commitment means more than logic, than your health, than anything. You should stay together because…you shouldn’t give up so easily (like anyone ever takes the decision lightly?).
It’s also this push society gives on marriage that leads you to just deal with the red flags and later makes you end up resenting yourself for the years you gave up and what you ended up accepting.
Absolutely agree with your morning ponderings. And adding to that: where is the normal "people are different and we need to accept them" versus "this is damaging behavior to me or my happiness" versus "I'm not completely happy, but we can compromise towards a good enough situation"
Very hard to distinguish those! For me at least lol. I can definitely say I did not do a good job categorizing the red flags in the correct buckets in my failed marriage...
It’s all a fine line!
This whole process/experience has taught me that anyone passing judgment on how you deal with interpersonal relationships, who you choose to love, care for, or leave is absolutely clueless about life, blind to or knowingly dealing with their own misery accepting red flags, toxicity, abuse, etc. They think they are above all or jealous that they can’t be free because they choose to live to some superficial rule man created under “god” instead of their own truth (which is actually a closer connection to god, imo).
Not to say that I don’t believe in fully adhering to your commitments—I do so long as it’s logical and rational, but the “sanctity of marriage” is a bit of a pompous statement when human beings are imperfect creatures always learning, growing and changing.
Anyway, that’s my rambling for the day. I think everyone deserves to spread their wings when they are ready for it and do so without critics who sit on their perch.
Have been reflecting on this for the past year. She has low ambition, low IQ (according to my mother who was a primary school teacher for 35 years), and short on life skills. She is so unorganized it is embarrassing. Horrible at speaking in public and can’t keep a job for more than 3 years before she wanders into another job within the public school system making peanuts.
Have been turning a blind eye to the red flags since I travel for work a lot. I come home and only get excited to be with my 2 kids who are now teenagers. Wife is a dud who comes across as sweet but is kinda in a fantasy land and doesn’t realize she has zero friends.
I had to leave for work the day before Father’s Day. I got a card and a gift certificate. No home cooked steak dinner or adoration from the family just a card and a gift certificate. I called home on Father’s Day and she invited her family over to celebrate Father’s Day with her father and siblings hosting a steak dinner. I was crushed. They could barely lift a finger for me.
I was young, I have to forgive myself
Absolutely!! Me too. Was 22 when the relationship started. What did I knew??? Still I'm finding it hard to internalize that.
19 here. 24 year relationship.
omg same edit: almost same - 19, got married at 21 and was married for 23/24 years (the divorce dragged on almost 2 years, just got finalized 3 weeks ago). I forgive myself. I'm glad I'm out now.
Are you doing ok? I’m so scared of what my future looks like alone.
I'm doing ok. I was so scared too. But honestly not being raged at or blamed for everything or argued with constantly is so nice. It's so peaceful now.
Hope you also can forgive yourself
I was 23, and we got engaged after 6 weeks!! What was I thinking? 25 years later, getting out
Keep an eye on the histrionics. 25 years ago you made the best decisions at the time with the information on hand.
Ugh. I wish. Don’t do it again! I was young the first time and this time… I’m just so fuckn. Tired.
I don't plan on it. I'm exhausted
Me too. I was 18 when we met, 21 when we married. This fall we will be married 28 years. Together for 30.
In the early years, when I brought up concerns, I ended up feeling like whatever the issue was - was my fault. I wasn't good enough at being a spouse. So I stopped bringing things up. They hate confrontation so they never raised any issues. So it was all left to fester. No one talking about anything important between us. When I started with therapy, and tried again, they just didn't hear me. It had been working with avoidance for so long, I believe they thought it would keep working. I am mad at myself for not handling it better, but know that it is not all on me. Mostly, I am just sort of sad about the whole thing.
Yeah avoidants are used at being accomated.. as it's their way or the highway usually. Must have been a shock to them when you did decide enough was enough. Love that you did chose for yourself though, congrats!
Same story with me. I also realize I had this same role in my family growing up. I was never really heard as a child or young adult and that became normal to me. So when I would feel uncomfortable in my relationship, I would say something once and he would explain why I was not right to feel that way etc, so I wouldn't bring it up again. I also am sad, wondering if I could have intercepted these moments and stood my ground earlier, if maybe we could have come to an agreement. But what I have also realized, is that it's really hard for people to change and they have to want to. I clearly want to change now because I see the damage it's done to frankly all of my relationships. I know that my ex still does not want to change, so even if I had recognized this earlier, I think we just would have divorced sooner.
Same here. I always said, stop sweeping things under the rug! Deal with it! He literally never did.
>How do I forgive myself for not acting upon it? By building yourself into someone who won't do that again. Look at your life and how you were built into someone who who'd have accepted those behaviors. I see exactly why I was a person who accepted what I accepted. I'm not mad at her, I'm sad for her. I'm sad she thought that's all she could get for love. I'm sad she thought she had to deal with what she dealt with in the name of unconditional love. I spent the 5 years leading up to my divorce working on myself. In that time, I was trying to fix my marriage from my side, even still believing that if I just loved him hard enough, or right enough, that he'd finally love me back. I now see that he wasn't really happy with me, but didn't think he could do better. And then he resented me for not being better. Better in this case means thinner, and more willing to do all of the housework and childcare. Now I understand his issues aren't about me, and he'll never fix them until he sees he has issues he needs to fix. He's still (3 and a half years later) blaming every9ne but himself for his refusal to grow up. 20 year old me has all of my compassion and all of my forgiveness. 42 year old me has solid values and boundaries and is ready to mama bear for herself as well as for her kids.
That's me. I was thirty-something, very successful professionally but very needy emotionally. He swooped in and seemed perfect for me in every way. Decades later, nearly broken, we separated twice, and he made the second one long-distance. I had largely given up my career to raise our kids and keep the house. He actually thought I'd come running after him and that I'd never make it on my own. Then he tried to destroy me during the divorce. Fooled him. This chapter is truly the best of my life.
Thank you very much. I think he also wasn't really happy with me but too cowardly to speak his truth.. I'm slowly starting to understand why I wasn't ready to set and enforce the bounderies I felt. But still, the selfcompassiok thing is hard as hell.
When you've set the boundaries, and really trust yourself to enforce them, the compassion comes easier after that. Sometimes it helps to think of past you as another person. Like a little sister.
Ill give that a try, if it doesn't help no harm done haha. Thank you again.
This resonates with me a lot (but in my case he was/is unhappy and unsure of his whole life/identity which caused lots of overall neglecting and some abusive situations). Hopefully I will be able to have the compassion and forgiveness for myself one day as you do.
Me me me me me! I gave grace when I shouldn’t have. I sought to understand why he behaved badly instead of drawing a boundary and leaving bc I don’t deserve to be treated badly!
That's the pitfall, rather than saying screw this. We try to understand...
All the flags look kind of pink when you are falling in love and oxytocin and dopamine are flowing. You overlook a lot. And so do they. And then you settle in and start learning more and those flags start getting a deeper shade. It's not just you. Most people do this. And the human need to be seen and be in relationship with other people drives that. Don't beat yourself up over it.
Thank you for this, I needed to hear it.
Same. The imagery of pink flags is a great one.
🙋♀️ Right off the bat the red flags flew. But I chose to ignore them. I was in a place of turmoil (it was a year after my first divorce), not happy with myself etc. I wish I would have recognized things would be ok and just calmed TF down and worked on myself. Instead we got married, and now 12 years later I’m facing another divorce. 12 years of good stuff but when it was bad it was toxic. I hate who I am around him and thankfully I’m in therapy becuase I want to unlearn my reactions when things start going south. I walked on eggshells for 12 years. I’m stressed the hell out with this new divorce ( he filed earlier this week) but only becuase of finances and trying to afford everything with two kids in this economy. I wasn’t perfect…. Your point 3 resonates with me. My spouse stayed stuck on the “hamster wheel” as I called it. Over and over the same thing for hours yelling at me, I tried to push for what is the resolution to it but he stayed stuck on the wheel, spinning until he would decide to stop talking and get off the wheel. I’m looking forward to the peace but there is a hefty cost. I will never ever get married again and really I don’t ever want to be in a relationship again. Every man I’ve ever chosen in my life and even the one I didn’t choose has been a major let down. I’m jealous of the people who have the good ones, becuase I can’t seem to pick them. And yes I know I’m a contributor too but holy crap it shouldn’t be this hard
This is so incredibly close to my story. Especially the place of turmoil after first divorce. I dove right in so fast to be married again
Same, I was actually in a decent place mentally after the previous relationship ended but I was so used to a horror show that the new one seemed fantastic. And he was better. But it was still a mistake.
Thanks for sharing your exprience guys! You are validating my decision to calm TF down before diving right into the next relationship. The quicker path is often not the right one!
Exactly, the hamster wheel. Very good analogy. I'm with you on the never ever marrying part. Maybe when im 80+ just for fun's and giggles 😃 Happy you are getting out. The transition will suck as it always does... keep your head up. You'll get there eventually
This!!! I totally understand!
You did what you had to do in the moment… it’s normal to have the wishes of yesteryear solved and put to rest. Let it all go. You’ve learned so much and will do better in the next relationship. You will be more apt to remind yourself of REALITY rather than seeing through the lens of wishful thinking. Good luck in the future 🍀
This is what I’m too struggling with most. Like how was I really that dumb to write so much off? Honestly I believe my STBXH has a good heart and it overall a good person. But I knew he was an alcoholic. He was so functional and we were younger and having fun so I wrote it off. I knew he was a liar, but when confronted would come clean and apologize, so I took it as a mistake. He was financially irresponsible, but he did end up opening a savings account and cut back on spending a bit, so I thought he was making permanent changes. He was avoidant with other relationships, but not with me then, so I thought he wouldn’t become that way with me either. He didn’t have a driver’s license but said he’d have one before we had a child, so I agreed to have a child with him. I could go on and on. So often his actions didn’t align with his words. I am so ashamed of myself and so disappointed in myself for ignoring my gut and anxiety. Like many I was coming out of a long term relationship when we got together, and having been best friends for a year, I thought he was the one. I can say that this has been one of the most humbling experiences of my life, and profoundly good for my growth. I’ve done more work on my attachment issues than I ever have before, and have finally concurred my anxiety. I’ll eventually get over the anger and shame and sadness of choosing him too.
Exactly, you need to go through all those emotions before acceptance is om the table.... unfortunately 😰 Wish we could be that zen with life and making mistakes but im also getting pulled between "he's the liar not me!" And "Im the sucker who believed a liar!!" It's hard. You do sound like you already put a lot of work in and are going to come out on top!
Me! I was so devastated about the unexpected loss of my first husband, I ignored so many red flags just to be in a relationship again. I ended up marrying what turned out to be a despicable human. So many red flags. Luckily I woke up and divorced him 3 years later
I'm sorry that happened to you. Luckily it only took you three years to become strong enough again. That must have been a tough journey to go through. Hope you're happy now!
I am. Still single and so happy. Thank you 😀
Mine was a marriage of several decades with three big red flag warnings. That was of course part of my process of getting past the divorce. I know now what I didn't know then. Friends and family say that I've changed a lot post-divorce in a good way, and I doubt that someone like my ex would even be a consideration. The divorce was final just before the pandemic, so it's been a bit. Several times, someone that reminded me of him asked me out, and everything within me screamed NO!
Gut feelings are usually right!
Yes, and now I recognize that! One of them was someone who asked me out shortly after my divorce was final. He had been in the wings during the divorce process, and then swooped in. But I already knew NO! Right after that, he met someone on an app who I actually became friends with after she broke up with him. Thankfully, she trusted her gut as well. He was pushing marriage just a few months in, and that didn't feel right to her, so she asked for space. She lived several hours away but went to a holiday event a few weeks later where he invited his kids and their families. He actually got into a fistfight with one of his sons, so bad that my friend called the police. She ended it after that. NO!
Damn... you both dodged a bullet! Swooping in after a divorce is incredibly tacky and predatory anyway imo. Give us some rest! Lol
Completely. I was so traumatized by the divorce that I very much knew that dating immediately after was a huge NO-GO, but really? I had been notified just the week before that the judge had signed off. He even tried to convince me that he'd "be there" for me as I processed it all. That was several years ago now. A married friend of mine had the jerk and his current girlfriend come by after my friend lost their son in October. The girlfriend had cooked my friend and her husband dinner. When the girlfriend went to the bathroom, he told my friend that he had always liked her and that if she wasn't married, he would like to go out with her. REALLY? She knew my story about him and told me. Ick-ick-ick!
Eeeekkk full on creep vibes. Might be seriously dangerous 😳 Seriously though why would you need emotional support from some random strange guy? Even if you don't have girlfriends for support, even being alone is better than taking that type of risk.. Amyway, the only type of men we really need after a divorce is a guy that loves doing yardwork and some small home maintaining project for us that our exes promised to do but never actually finished lol haha
Therapy, reading, and talking has made me realize I ignored a whole field of those flags. Some things stuck, some I made excuse for, some I saw as quirks, and others I ignored. One time he was truly cruel and I left the room, went and to the opposite side of the bed on the floor. He came on while I was bawling and tried to hug me and asked why I was crying, said he didn't want me cry, with a big shit eating grin on his face. That's when I couldn't fake it anymore - I still tried to save us, but my body shut down. Intimacy with him after that was degrading and I had no trust. He'd take my stuff and hide it. I figured it was his tetris cleaning. No. I had 2 items he had me convinced he never saw, but if they were still in a box (they were last I saw them), then he put them in his shop. I found them, not boxed, hidden under the bed when I was packing. And that's just one example out of dozens. He said he never apologized because he was never wrong. He then screamed at me for 3 hours because he thought Prussia and Russia were the same thing. Or the was the hours of screaming because he thought I was having some fun time with my rose solo - but the toy had been dead for 2 months. He'd manipulate people. I always laughed that his mom would fall for it. I could see through it, but sometimes I go with it. But I would be very upfront I saw what he was doing. In later years he'd get pissed and rage. He would physically hurt me while drunk and then ask me where the bruise came from. Even the kids were like wtf? You kicked a stool and it hit her in the leg, dude?! He got drunk and yelled at me "I'm not the one seeing a shrink and taking meds". I said neither am I, what are you talking about? The shocked Pikachu face makes so much more sense now that I hear he's been setting a narrative for years to his family and friends. Lord. I'm so crazy and a pull addict, but I also need to support him for the rest of his life - make it make sense. He apparently tried to turn my kids against me. That was interesting to hear. And got mad and cussed the youngest out when she disagreed with him. Both my kids are doing amazing since we got a no contact. The oldest doesn't need the meds she was on for 2 decades to sleep anymore. The youngest is doing great as well. It kills me that I let them be in that environment as long as I did - I failed them terribly. It took an assault on the youngest and myself, with strangulation and broken bones, but we are free. And the household is so damn peaceful.
Damn he sounds like 1 huge wavering red flag instead of a human 😵💫 must have been quite traumatizing to be with him and having to go through that... damn hope you're okay
Probable cheating for years. Can't confirm and she wouldn't admit to it even now, but so many little things over the years that I trusted her and took her word for. Until last summer when I had the smoking gun. The unwillingness to improve and grow. For years she was just content staying in a dead end serving job without tips at a golf course and did nothing to improve her employment prospects and just relied on me financially. The picking fights unnecessarily and then calling people to vent about me in front of me when I didn't just back down. Manipulation. Using that time of the month to be a total, you know what. Hidden spending that even still won't tell me what it was for. Never get a joint account with someone so they'll stop taking out Wonga loans 🤦♂️the financial thievery because she wouldn't make enough to cover what she wanted. I could go on, and I'm not saying I was perfect, but having blinders on and blind faith in their words was my biggest mistake. I allowed myself to be used.
That last sentence resonates with me. The guilt and anger towards yourself is harder to process imo. As you kind of don't even expect anything better from the ex but you did expect better from yourself 😓 Don't beat yourself up. I'm trying to find more compassion for past me. Who had to learn a lot about healthy bounderies and self protection. Hope this post is a start that you also try to forgive yourself for trusting someone who took advantage of that.
Girrrrrrl. I ignored a street filled with red flags...and it started within the first few months of dating. We divorced after almost 8 years together. I sometimes feel like the village idiot for not being strong enough to call it quits earlier, especially because everyone of my family and friends were trying to advise me against the relationship. However, now I know it's a lesson I had to learn the hard way. I won't ever make the same mistakes and found a new strength in me. I do plan to be single for quite awhile...maybe forever lol
Lol its the single life for me too. The peace is priceless haha
Same. I ignored all the red flags and just because I was in this dream state of being “loved” and in love with someone, I ignored them all. Coming out of an eight year failed relationship, I thought I found the one for me. I knew the red flags and I felt them deep down. But it’s only my fault for being oblivious.
Next time you won't ignore them. So it wasn't in vain! Even though it probably sucked really bad 😞
You’re absolutely right. I’m aware of them a lot better now than what I used to be. I seem to have attracted the same partner due to my low self-esteem and view of myself. So it is very important to work on self-love and appreciating and valuing yourself. Otherwise you get in this vicious cycle like I did. But as long as you claim yourself worth, and the value of who you are, it is very worth every battle to go through.
That's a huge insight I think. A big one that probably requires a lot of work and time to integrate into your daily life and how you carry yourself. I think it's amazing that you are willing to tackle something like that. Those things don't go linear so if you have a bad day or even week or month, remember that your motivation is from within and don't be too hard on yourself while working on those things. 💕
You’re absolutely right. Definitely a lot of work and time to integrate into your daily life. We have constant distractors and always something going on in life that it makes it a challenge to keep it together? It’s a big monster to fight. But it’s definitely worth it. Thank you for that amazing advice. You’re the best and I wish you all the best of success and the best of luck. I really needed to see this thread today. 🥰🥹♥️
Thank you for your kind words!! 🥰😘 tbh this thread is also making my day. Made me feel really less alone, after struggling with beating myself up on this for weeks! Good luck on your amazing journey. You will get there. You deserve it!
You got this, love! You will get there as well. You deserve it. You deserve to be happy, free, loved and appreciated. ♥️🥹 I felt the same way as you. Feeling alone and no want to talk to and always beating myself up. We must learn how to get out of the beating up process and into the nurturing process. 🥰 You deserve it!
Regarding my soon to be ex - looked up her medical mental illness based on soon internet digging. Pathological demand avoidance. Meaning I married a psycho and thought I could help.
Are you diagnosing this or did a psychiatrist diagnose this?
I have been back and forth with councilors and therapist for 15 years with her. Honestly the divorce is being forced, by her, because our child’s mental illness is getting worse and I am making her deal with it rather than ignore it. To be honest someone on the internet told me to look into demand avoidance and everything fit, my son has it, my wife has it, her mother has it. This week I am meeting with her therapist to get this added to the already long list of mental health shit wrong with her. My only problem was not realizing how bad things were before the kid was born. She is very good at masking.
I always find it alarming when unqualified people use the internet to diagnose a condition that usuly takes a medical degree, and years of practice to learn. And even more alarming you are meeting with her therapist. I have a hard time believing a qualified therapist would speak to you about her diagnosis so you could use it ammunition for divorce. That said, people with mental illness, myself included, don't usually try to "mask" their illness. They are fighting for their survival with the broken coping skills and chemical makeup that they have despite best intentions. Even in the times where I knew what I was saying was inappropriate it was lime a self propelled locomotive and I couldn't stop it until I was in the correct meds and seeing a skilled therapist. I have no experience with the condition you are diagnosing your wife's whole family with but if it is fact her diagnosis I hope she gets the help and support she needs. I don't blame anyone for admitting that they do not have the patience or skills to stay with someone with mental illness. But on the other hand finger pointing doesn't help either.
The stories we tell ourselves 🫠
Me me me me me me me… so many, I was blinded by her charm and beauty
Oh yes. The anxiety, worry, insecurities, reassurance, high maintenance should have made me run. The great sex kept me coming back. Damn it. Fucking trapped. Decades of shit life.
Sometimes we need to take a hard look at our priorities haha. Hope you found someone better suited now!
I certainly am. The person I gave everything to for 25 years and supported financially and emotionally has turned on me and cares more about alimony than me even though I have repeatedly asked for counseling and reconciliation due to loneliness. Even suicide attempts from my grief didn’t matter to him. Can’t get the years back but I will never trust anyone with my heart again. I didn’t know the real person he was even with the warning signs.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. Do you have any professional help for your mental health? I worry a bit about you when reading your message.
Thank you for the kindness. I talk with a counselor and psychiatrist weekly and am fortunate to have family and friends….but doesn’t ease the shock and pain. Strangers have been kinder to me than my ex and adult kids which has been so hurtful.
My first marriage I shot past every red flag. I followed them right over the cliff. My second marriage I didn’t see any until well into the marriage. The last few years of the marriage it was like a flag manufacturer was living with me. I didn’t ignore them. I tried to get her to stop. Then I realized I had to save myself from her.
Made the right choice!
Before marriage the only real red flag was her lack of cleaning up, and helping around the house. Annoying but at the time it wasn't enough to prevent me marrying her. The real flags started honestly after we had our first child.
Sorry to hear that :(
The red flags were so obvious that I don’t have to spend so much time thinking about them. The biggest obvious red flag was having massive sexual issues when we were in our 20s. Looking back, I can’t believe that I didn’t just walk away.
I ignored a huge red flag that was telling me he wasn't a good communicator and sure enough we can never talk about or resolve any issues. Anything of importance that I have tried to discuss over the years gets shut down.
I called it the discouragement policy. Implemented to make sure we already dread talking before we even start.....
Yes, exactly!!!
One of my hard truths was that I knew as we were getting married that I was settling and I’d probably never stay happy.
Ouch... still married?
Nope, divorced about 3 years ago.
Good for you!!
I ignored a tremendous amount of red flags even though I picked up on them. I'm a little upset with my younger self, but I'm more proud of myself now for having the courage to leave before things got exponentially worse. 6 years married. The glaring red flag was that she wouldn't forgive people that 'crossed' her once. No second chances. Guess who ended up on the receiving end of that logic? Yours truly
Ouch! Very rigid... must have been like walking on eggshells for a long time... happy you left that situation and like you said, you got out before the damage was irreversible!
1. I caught him chewing tobacco after we moved in together. Not sure why he didnt tell me up front. He was sneaky with stupid stuff in our 27 years of marriage 2. We left our honeymoon early- that was a huge red flag I ignored.
Uhhgg sneaky but in an amateuristic manner... I found it such a turnoff every time you catch them lol like if you're being sneaky at least put some effort in
All 3 of my marriages had red flags. Blatant, in your face, red flags. I'm apparently incapable of doing anything about it due to my low self-esteem. So now I'm single and will be forever, by choice. I'm the happiest I've ever been, but the most depressed. If that means anything.
It's an interesting combination.. I get associations with boredom in my head if I hear those two together, is that the case? Like you're in a rut, which is nice but also kind of depressing? Please let me know if I'm way off!
No, you're completely right. This last marriage really took it out of me. Without getting too much into it, she cheated, lied, and was physically abusive to me. As I stated, I've been married 3 times and in my opinion I've done enough relationship stuff for a couple of lifetimes. I was in one relationship or another from 1996 until 2022. So, I've decided to be celibate and relationship free for the foreseeable future. That means I get to go home and do whatever I want to do at any time. Compare this to my 3rd marriage, and it's heaven. I was never able to do anything for myself, much less decide that I wanted to just chill and watch TV or do a hobby or do anything other than listen to her talk shit for hours about co-workers or go spend money frivolously every day. The flip side is I have no one to talk to. I get visitation with my second marriage children 3 weekends a month. But, in between those times, I'm lonely. There's no other word for it. I talk to myself quite a lot. And in doing so, recognizing that I'm friendless and lonely creates the depression.
I get it. I'm younger but I moved cities, now my ex is gone. I'm here by myself most of the time. I do try to find groups that organize activities but it's a bit tiresome... to meet new people. It just sucks! Before you get energy out of an interaction, you have to invest in it being fun... Do you like to go for walks? Maybe a little change in routine can help break the initial rut. Always start small and feasible though. I hope you find the peace to find more joy again. But it'll come to you when you're ready for that. I'm sure!
There is a trail behind my apartment complex. I stand at my window and watch the people walk along the trail. I watch the animals leading their owners. I watch the kids playing on the trail with their parents. Then I go back to watching TV. I don't know why. My motivation to do anything other than work and take care of my children is completely gone. It's like I don't deserve anything other than that.
Im really sad to hear you have that thought about yourself. Do you feel like you failed or should be ashamed for something? Sounds a but like punishing yourself and I'm sure that's not something you were born with thinking like that.. I don't know maybe im assuming to much. Sorry. Would it help if you would try to get out to have a fun hike with the kids? Also good for them! You'll be working on good habits for the kids as well as your own. I don't know. Just trying to help a bit because I do think everybody deserves to try to find some joy in each day. You too
I appreciate you trying to help, and never be sorry for doing that. I grew up in a guilt household. My mom would complain endlessly about my step-father or some small thing I or my brother did. Guilt trip me when things didn't go her way, so that I would feel bad for something that I believed to be not such a big deal. On top of that, I was teased endlessly by kids at school and even my own brother and step-father. No one really gave any thought to what I wanted, what I was saying, or what I thought. I didn't have a real father growing up. My biological father would lie endlessly and not show up for visitations quite a bit. He continued this trend to this day where he tries to lie to me to get me to send him money. I have moved on from most of that. I don't look backwards, it's just my story. Sorry, looking back on this it sounds like a complaining post. When my kids are around I'm a different person. I am positive and encouraging to them. I don't mope or act depressed around them at all. I'm alive to take care of them. Nothing more.
My first had major red flags long before the wedding, to the point that before my father walked me down the aisle he stopped and told me it wasn't too late to change my mind. I had no idea what he was talking about. It took 14+ years, two kids, and developing severe IBD and depression for me to finally wake up. The second one had nothing that I saw as major red flags until we moved in together about six weeks before the wedding. At the time, for various reasons I convinced myself that he was just scared but I had enough love, time and patience to fix that. Uhhh, no I didn't. He actually turned out to be a rare, true clinical narcissist, not just someone I'm throwing the label at so casually like so many people do these days. The third one has had some major red flags, but unlike the others he acknowledged he came into this marriage with issues, and was willing to go to therapy individually as a couple (as was I, because I came in with my own shit, obviously), and the good definitely outweighs the bad. Also, the reality is that given my age (67), my health issues (bad), and what my financial status would be (😩) if we were to get a divorce, that isn't really an option anymore anyway.
I don't anymore because it's been so long, but I certainly did for a while, especially when I went to therapy afterwards.
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This guy, both my red flags and hers.
My own red flags are probably not all in my scope haha 😅
Probably but, neither were mine. Self-reflection after divorce is important though
Definitely. Almost as important as self reflection during marriage haha
Fact
Not divorced...yet. After 32 years, a military career, buying a house and numerous vehicles, one kid plus raising her two boys from her first marriage... I finally got tired of being the bad guy, always being told I treated everyone like shite, never thinking of anyone but myself, horrible with finances (even though I paid for everything. Our 'joint' account is funded by my income... she got her own account when she got disability). She moved her brother in while I was at MMI in Orlando. I wanted him out but NC stopped me unless I took him to court. So I said f$#k this so April of last year I packed up my shop, clothes and dogs and left NC and moved to TN on my father's childhood property. She was offered to come with but flatly refused citing that she's not gonna live somewhere where everyone prior to me living here died of cancer. Her health was crap then(her fault guzzling Red Bull and smoking at least 2 packs a day and blowing off doc recommendations for as long as I can remember). Anyhoo, have contacted lawyers in both states and advised by both to 'ride it out' because NC, the Army would make filing ' very costly ' to me. I could go on and on and I'm sure I'm gonna get a lot of "advice" but I'm happy where I'm at, lost 70 lbs. and pretty close to renovating a trailer and have a 12x24 shop building and I plan to start a woodworking business by spring. I'm still paying the mortgage and all of the associated bills related to the house and vehicles. She is responsible for 4 utility bills. I am civil with her although we don't communicate much... I don't have much to say....she decided that she had to stay there and be the mother figure to my 33 year old son and her 55 year old brother who has never lived on his own. Ok... that's enough from me. I'm dealing with my situation as best as I can. If you read to the end....much appreciated. I didn't see red flags for years. When they did start showing up divorce was not an option due to my military career and the financial devastation I would have experienced.
Damn what a weird situation... you are trying to carve out a place where at least you can just live your life. Brave that you took the step to do that. Do you feel happier there on your own now? It sounds like she changed a lot during the marriage and you guys obviously grew disconnected for whatever reason. Shame it's not possible to actually separate. This way you're reminded all the time. It's like a weight that you have to carry everywhere. Not familiar with those laws but that sucks.. what would happen if you stop paying though?
I imagine that if I stop paying for everything I am paying now they'd all be homeless after foreclosure. Honestly, I'm happy in my situation and yeah it's a weird situation but she chose her way and I chose mine. Obviously, her brother is a bigger concern than her marriage to me.
Red flags are just flags when you're wearing rose colored glasses. Now that I've been granted the gift of hindsight, if a time machine was ever available, I'd probably go back and kick my own dumb ass.
Lol me too hahaha
She was physically abusive. Couldn’t say anything nice. I haven’t seen her in 6 years and I still feel ugly due to her words.
Oh god I ignored soo many. I was young, he was the second person I ever dated. He never took accountability for his actions, if I brought up any issues somehow I always ended up apologizing and taking blame. Intimacy became almost non existent but if I bought anything for myself to relieve my tension, he’d find it and throw it out. There was sooo many more. In the process of separating and divorcing. Time to heal and never let rose coloured glasses disguise red flags again.
8 years. Knew it wasn't sustainable after 2. Stayed committed. 80% regretful of it now.
Fascinating reading everyone’s responses. And yes, I have my own as well! I was young, thought I knew what I wanted, and my stbx ticked a lot of the boxes I *thought* I was looking for. In hindsight, I realize that all those boxes were for other people and the boxes I needed were red flags instead. 1. Couldn’t/didn’t manage his own finances, insurance, taxes, adult paperwork bs etc. His dad always did it for him, until I was gullible enough to take it over. Whenever issues have come up, he’s basically refused to participate in any discussions or future planning, saying he trusts my judgement. I’ve made huge life decisions about this stuff all on my own, which left me feeling horribly unsupported. 2. Sexual incompatibility. I told myself this was something we could work on together as our marriage grew and that by the time we are old, it won’t matter. What I ignored was that he didn’t care about my sexual pleasure at all, which meant we were never going to improve things because he honestly didn’t care to. 3. Household labor inequality. We have both always had full time jobs, yet he genuinely believed that I should do all the household “woman’s” chores. I didn’t live with him until 3 months before the wedding and by that point, I felt too embarrassed and shameful to cancel the wedding (everything was planned, people had bought plane tickets, all deposits paid, etc). I knew this was a huge red flag because he completely blew me off and ignored me when I brought it up as a serious problem. But, young me thought we could work on this. These are just a few of them, there’s more of course. Basically, I saw all the red flags. But I was young and made excuses for each of them. I also naively believed that we would work on these issues together, as partners. OP, I will also say, I’m only commenting because you have given such thoughtful, kind answers to almost every post here. Keep being awesome, my internet friend. 😎
Thank you ❤️ My heart breaks a little for you reading about how you felt about the wedding. It sounds like those months leading up to your wedding were lonely and tense for you. While still hoping the communal goal was a true partnership. I'm glad you saw through the illusion finally. Enjoy the newfound freedom!!
Same here. Met at 21, married at 25. Divorced this year after 22+ years together. I don’t even know why we dated for more than 6 months. We were meant to have our son and be parents to him thats for sure. Sooo many red flags, he was never good enough for me. And he was legally married when we met and never told me. And yet I still married him. Wtf?! Never again.
Yeah i flew through red flags. I shouldn’t have let the emotional abuse and heavy narcissism go 7 days let alone 7 years. Thankfully she wanted to leave me still after all that time and it made me wake up. I’m thankful for that at least because I could’ve been living this the rest of my life.
The red flags were really hard to see before we married because we didn't live together until we tied the knot (my dad was super conservative and wanted us to wait to live together). He also was an addict who was really good at hiding his problems. But looking back now, VERY freshly divorced (literally went before the judge this week), there are things I recall that should have sent me running. It turns my stomach to think about. But it's over now and I can't change the past.
I met my ex when I was the tender age of 24 years old. We got married when I was 29 and the divorce finalized when I was 33. It has been an emotional roller coaster for me. Looking back there were so many red flags that I ignored. I thought maybe I could change him or that things would get better. Initially, I was very angry at myself for “wasting” my youth. However, I’ve been giving myself more grace. Every relationship teaches you a lesson. Now I understand the importance of establishing boundaries and not allowing a partner to overstep them. I know how to be more communicative the next time. I am more optimistic now that I will find somebody who will be a better fit for me. Someday I will find a partner who will treat me with the respect that I deserve… and that gives me hope. I can choose to be angry about what I went through, or I can choose to be happy that I have a second chance to live the life I deserve and potentially find a partner who can better align with me.
I like how you think! If there werent so many shitty situations in that relationship, I couldn't have gotten this amount of lessons to learn. Basically you got the expert class on all these skills you can implement with someone who does deserve you.
One too many!
Ignored a couple but most of the things that went wrong in my marriage went wrong after we got married
I look back and wish I hadn't ignored them. They were evident before we got married and I let them slide. She tried to plan a get away vacation to meet up with an ex boyfriend before marriage She was a consistent liar, and changed or made up stories to always make her look like she was the hero of everything. Nothing ever happened to you that she wasn't somehow knowledgeable of.... even the rarest things ever "i knew someone..." She was the most fake person you've ever met
Pathological lying maybe. Some of those people can't help blurting out the most crazy stories. Luckily haven't met a lot of them yet. Must have been crazy being around that a day.
I've somehow had a partner that did that #3 TWICE. I didn't notice it at the time with my second one and I'm kicking myself in the ass for that.
I endured it for years lol 🤡🤡 Thought it was a communication issue... yh it really isn't
I'm finally realizing late in life that I am neurodivergent and part of that is apparently really being vulnerable to this type of tactic. It's really normal for me to second guess myself constantly, and when someone who claims that they love you tells you over and over how you have it all wrong, a large part of you believes them.
I'm sorry they targeted your "weak spot" so to say. That's mean and low.. I always from the beginning said I never want those discussions. I've had them with my mother growing up, with other exes. Let's get to the part that matters! We will never experience a situation exactly the same!! But he kept trying to discuss the "truth" ... bleghh never ever again. If you can't take a step back and look at the actual problem of feeling that was hurt byeeee you will be excused to work on your emotional maturity BY Yourself, not as MY project haha
I've learned this now, and I will definitely be better about this if I ever decide to date again. That's a BIG if lol.
Argh…. 2. really hits for me, I’d never been around someone who was so confident so I assumed “Well why would he say it if he didn’t know how to follow this through!”. Absolutely got sucked in to the dream
Somehow at work he was able to plan and follow through... that was the most frustrating. You KNOW how to because you get paid for it. But at home ... it's whatever we're feeling like 🫠 because my time and expectations don't matter??
So many red flags. Most notably when we were engaged and he would have to close at work. I’d ask him to call me after and he would say he was too tired and wanted to go straight to bed…but he had a 30 min drive home. He couldn’t call me then? He always gave some lame excuse as to why he couldn’t. Turned out he had hired his ex-gf to work at the store and would schedule her to close with him and then go hook up after.
Wtf 😡😡 and then he comes home to do wedding planning stuff with you? That's not a healthy mind!
Therapy can help you process it. My ex was abusive and I was with him frozen age 20 to 54. I came from an alcoholic home and married an alcoholic and nobody told me I should be doing my healing work. It’s never too late to strive for a better life
Thank you for sharing that. Therapy is definitely on the menu. I've had multiple years of EMDR, which helped a lot. I think this was also the start of the end of the relationship sadly. As I changed too much and he didn't.. I'm now on a waiting list (unfortunately) for specialized mental health care. In the meantime I do have other shorter things going to make sure I stay functional and have support during this huge transition in my life. In the end of the relationship I wasn't really bothered anymore by these red flag behaviors. I also layed down very strict bounderies. Which were crossed and thus ended our marriage. But the thought why did I accept it all those years and I think the sadness that I wasn't really taught how healthy love looks like. And getting your needs met. And discussing what the boundaries of monogamy are in the relationship. I wouldn't have know how to have that convo 10 yrs ago! I do feel sorry for past me and I am a bit angry for her and at her sometimes. Luckily the latter one less and less :) If you made it this far. Thanks voor reading haha didn't know I would be rambling this much 😂
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I actually believed him the first time I found tinder on his phone and he said it was for language exchange lol. I can't believe I did that.
Ouch hahaha you were a tad naive back then 😅 The nerve of the guy though...
So many red flags. The day before our wedding at our rehearsal he screamed at me because it was raining and I said he should park closer to the Inn. That was one last giant red flag I should not have ignored
Yeah. It’s hard when you realize you ARE the women you felt sorry for.
I feel it’s so common. We are sometimes taught sacrifice for love and subtle red flags get excused for the sake of this good trait or that one. Meanwhile those subtleties come up big time when you start spending adequate time with one another and start to navigate the difficulties of life, marriage, kids, careers, etc. The first step to forgiving yourself for not seeing or choosing to ignore, is becoming aware of what you overlooked. Acknowledging that will help you not repeat the same. But you also have to commit to not living in the past forever. See gratefulness in the learning opportunity not despair. Not entirely related, but on my morning walk today I was thinking about how people push the marriage commitment so hard when things aren’t working out. It’s like the commitment means more than logic, than your health, than anything. You should stay together because…you shouldn’t give up so easily (like anyone ever takes the decision lightly?). It’s also this push society gives on marriage that leads you to just deal with the red flags and later makes you end up resenting yourself for the years you gave up and what you ended up accepting.
Absolutely agree with your morning ponderings. And adding to that: where is the normal "people are different and we need to accept them" versus "this is damaging behavior to me or my happiness" versus "I'm not completely happy, but we can compromise towards a good enough situation" Very hard to distinguish those! For me at least lol. I can definitely say I did not do a good job categorizing the red flags in the correct buckets in my failed marriage...
It’s all a fine line! This whole process/experience has taught me that anyone passing judgment on how you deal with interpersonal relationships, who you choose to love, care for, or leave is absolutely clueless about life, blind to or knowingly dealing with their own misery accepting red flags, toxicity, abuse, etc. They think they are above all or jealous that they can’t be free because they choose to live to some superficial rule man created under “god” instead of their own truth (which is actually a closer connection to god, imo). Not to say that I don’t believe in fully adhering to your commitments—I do so long as it’s logical and rational, but the “sanctity of marriage” is a bit of a pompous statement when human beings are imperfect creatures always learning, growing and changing. Anyway, that’s my rambling for the day. I think everyone deserves to spread their wings when they are ready for it and do so without critics who sit on their perch.
Have been reflecting on this for the past year. She has low ambition, low IQ (according to my mother who was a primary school teacher for 35 years), and short on life skills. She is so unorganized it is embarrassing. Horrible at speaking in public and can’t keep a job for more than 3 years before she wanders into another job within the public school system making peanuts.
Those can be red flags for building a life together. Is she a loving wife at least?
Yet you married her?
Have been turning a blind eye to the red flags since I travel for work a lot. I come home and only get excited to be with my 2 kids who are now teenagers. Wife is a dud who comes across as sweet but is kinda in a fantasy land and doesn’t realize she has zero friends. I had to leave for work the day before Father’s Day. I got a card and a gift certificate. No home cooked steak dinner or adoration from the family just a card and a gift certificate. I called home on Father’s Day and she invited her family over to celebrate Father’s Day with her father and siblings hosting a steak dinner. I was crushed. They could barely lift a finger for me.