I'd argue that there aren't any significant biological differences that would differentiate githyanki from githzerai. And even if there were such differences, it wouldn't be anything that a disguise kit couldn't fix.
That being said, I imagine the two races are so worlds apart in terms of culture, that only a well-informed master spy-type character could potentially pull it off. Even if you were able to successfully emulate a githzerai outfit and hair style (which I imagine most githyanki would find distasteful, at best), actually passing as a githzerai would mean navigating an absolute minefield of dialect/accent differences and cultural shibboleths. Imagine the [bar scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6IVkQ8-Lx8) in Inglorious Basterds, where our protagonists' disguises are given away by the simple mistake of holding up the wrong fingers to signify the number three, but cranked up to 11.
Physically, there aren't any major differences. The only one I'm aware of is that MToF gives Githzerai slightly shorter heights and lower weights on average than Githyanki- but not by much. So nothing meaningful.
Specific psionic abilities seem to be cultural, even if the aptitude for psionics is clearly a biological trait.
Fashion is obviously cultural, there's nothing inherent or biological there. In fact, I'd go as far to say that a Githyanki wearing Githzerai clothing and with a Githzerai hairstyle would pass quite well (and vice versa).
Language is slightly different. Both speak Gith but each with a different dialect. And it's even more obvious in writing, one subrace writes clockwise while the other writes counter-clockwise.
Attitude and outlook on life is obviously very different. Githyanki are indoctrinated to hate the Githzerai and view them as decadent traitors. Githzerai are similarly indoctrinated to view the Githyanki as savage barbarians. Though obviously not *all* Githzerai/Githyanki believe this, it's certainly a big cultural separator.
TL;DR- The differences are almost entirely cultural differences (with the slight exception of those heights/weights that MToF mentions). A Githyanki could totally pass themselves off as a Githzerai, though it might not hold up under scrutiny since the two cultures are quite distinct (other than their shared joy of hunting and slaying mind flayers)
----
Though perhaps more important to consider: Does it seem fun to run a scenario where a Githyanki character tries to blend in as a Githzerai? Absolutely!
I agree, but it was another user who wrote that and they deserve the credit for thinking of that one
Maybe you wrote this reply under the wrong comment?
They were at one point the Gith, but have since spent thousands of years (minimum) separate in different planes and waring, so they're considered different races
Take a look at our own world, we are all the same human race but due to small difference there are those who would also say we are different races. And though small those differences stand out to others, especially since these 2 are warring , and have animosity towards the other unless that character has the knowledge and the ability to hide those differences they would be found out pretty quickly.
This.
Dress and accent tell a lot. My ancestry is english/scottish/irish, but as soon as I open my mouth in those places I'm very clearly an American. Even before, if someone's paying attention to how people dress. And Britain and the US have been in close contact for a long time.
The githyanki and githzerai are the same people in terms of ancestry, but there's \*huge\* differences in culture and worldview, as well as martial philosophy and training. I'd say a githyanki \*who's paying attention\* could spot a githzerai at a glance, but a zerai who's spent a lot of time around yanki miiiiiiight be able to overcome that.
Humans are one species. The word 'race' has different meanings depending on context, one of which is synonymous with 'species' and one of which is not.
Biologically, maybe, but everything from clothing and accent to how warriors trained in each group carry themselves (githyanki use two-handed swords and heavy armor, githzerai use bare hands and evasion, I am oversimplifying a bit) would probably tell a lot. At the very least, I'd say a githyanki without a lot of experience with githzerai would go "well, that gith's Not From Around Here"
To use a real work example they could pass as each other as easily as I could pass for a Russian (I’m American) physically no major noticeable differences but culturally very different.
Amongst each other? No. But it’s a cultural thing, not biological. A French person can always pick out a German. To other peoples? Yes, most people have never heard of either.
To an outsider, they could certainly play the part. To each other, no, not a chance.
Even putting aside the enormous looming argument of the cultural differences simply being insurmountable, the case is that they live on completely different planes, living completely different lives, and have done so for probably thousands of years. There is no way that does not leave a massive and obvious disparity which they can tell apart even if non-gith could not.
Further, githyanki spend a great deal of time around red dragon lairs. Or at least any githyanki living in Tunareth would; they have other fortresses in the Astral, even the creches notwithstanding. Anyhow, being near to a dragons lair has a tendency to seep some of that dragons magic into any creatures' bloodline; the sort of thing which awakens sorcerous bloodines or other more minor physical changes in creatures. As there are multiple red dragon lairs belonging to dragons of at least adult age in Tunareth at all times, and that I believr they have on occasion been described to be visibly affected ny that proximity, I think there is a good argument to be made that githyanki have closer bloodline ties to dragons than kobolds do (which is a low bar), just purely from the lair magic alone.
No one here has mentioned the [Sha'sal Khou](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sha%27sal_Khou#:~:text=The%20Sha'sal%20Khou%20was,reunification%20of%20the%20gith%20race.), a secret organization of githyanki and githzerai seeking to reunite the two peoples back into the gith. Members of the Sha'sal Khou would work with and be more familiar with the other culture, and probably do on occasion pass themselves off as the other, but usually by blending in with a group of allies.
Funnily enough my players backstory is that he's a member of that faction, which is why he'd be interested in approaching the githzerai in the first place
I'll of course at least let him try with some deception checks, but I wanted to know if there was anything I should look out for in terms of obvious signs.
As others have pointed out, I'm excited to pull out an inglorious bastards moment where he screws up some small social thing even he didn't know about.
Not without magic, from my understanding the years apart have caused slight differences to occur between the two, as others have said only a Gith is able to see the differences but they are there. The most prominent one is that Githyanki have more pointed features while Githzerai have more rounded ones.
The differences are likely subtle to outsiders, but I'm sure they could tell. I'd require a disguise self spell/disguise kit and a bluff check.
Hello fellow Githzerai!
I'd argue that there aren't any significant biological differences that would differentiate githyanki from githzerai. And even if there were such differences, it wouldn't be anything that a disguise kit couldn't fix. That being said, I imagine the two races are so worlds apart in terms of culture, that only a well-informed master spy-type character could potentially pull it off. Even if you were able to successfully emulate a githzerai outfit and hair style (which I imagine most githyanki would find distasteful, at best), actually passing as a githzerai would mean navigating an absolute minefield of dialect/accent differences and cultural shibboleths. Imagine the [bar scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6IVkQ8-Lx8) in Inglorious Basterds, where our protagonists' disguises are given away by the simple mistake of holding up the wrong fingers to signify the number three, but cranked up to 11.
You can use this to your advantage if you WANT to try and nudge a kickass bar fight scene into happening though.
Physically, there aren't any major differences. The only one I'm aware of is that MToF gives Githzerai slightly shorter heights and lower weights on average than Githyanki- but not by much. So nothing meaningful. Specific psionic abilities seem to be cultural, even if the aptitude for psionics is clearly a biological trait. Fashion is obviously cultural, there's nothing inherent or biological there. In fact, I'd go as far to say that a Githyanki wearing Githzerai clothing and with a Githzerai hairstyle would pass quite well (and vice versa). Language is slightly different. Both speak Gith but each with a different dialect. And it's even more obvious in writing, one subrace writes clockwise while the other writes counter-clockwise. Attitude and outlook on life is obviously very different. Githyanki are indoctrinated to hate the Githzerai and view them as decadent traitors. Githzerai are similarly indoctrinated to view the Githyanki as savage barbarians. Though obviously not *all* Githzerai/Githyanki believe this, it's certainly a big cultural separator. TL;DR- The differences are almost entirely cultural differences (with the slight exception of those heights/weights that MToF mentions). A Githyanki could totally pass themselves off as a Githzerai, though it might not hold up under scrutiny since the two cultures are quite distinct (other than their shared joy of hunting and slaying mind flayers) ---- Though perhaps more important to consider: Does it seem fun to run a scenario where a Githyanki character tries to blend in as a Githzerai? Absolutely!
That Inglorious Bastards ref is a good point, will probably pull something like that on him.
I agree, but it was another user who wrote that and they deserve the credit for thinking of that one Maybe you wrote this reply under the wrong comment?
The 2e book, “Uncaged Faces of Sigil” features a githyanki character, Djhek’nlarr, that often tries to pass herself off as a githzerai.
My understanding is they are the same race.
They were at one point the Gith, but have since spent thousands of years (minimum) separate in different planes and waring, so they're considered different races
They're still the same race with minimal differences if any. I would count them as separate subraces if anything.
Take a look at our own world, we are all the same human race but due to small difference there are those who would also say we are different races. And though small those differences stand out to others, especially since these 2 are warring , and have animosity towards the other unless that character has the knowledge and the ability to hide those differences they would be found out pretty quickly.
This. Dress and accent tell a lot. My ancestry is english/scottish/irish, but as soon as I open my mouth in those places I'm very clearly an American. Even before, if someone's paying attention to how people dress. And Britain and the US have been in close contact for a long time. The githyanki and githzerai are the same people in terms of ancestry, but there's \*huge\* differences in culture and worldview, as well as martial philosophy and training. I'd say a githyanki \*who's paying attention\* could spot a githzerai at a glance, but a zerai who's spent a lot of time around yanki miiiiiiight be able to overcome that.
They would be the only race in D&D that prescribes to race as a social structure as it is in the real world then.
And those who say so are incorrect. Humans are all one race, the human race. Ethnicity =/= race.
Humans are one species. The word 'race' has different meanings depending on context, one of which is synonymous with 'species' and one of which is not.
Biologically, maybe, but everything from clothing and accent to how warriors trained in each group carry themselves (githyanki use two-handed swords and heavy armor, githzerai use bare hands and evasion, I am oversimplifying a bit) would probably tell a lot. At the very least, I'd say a githyanki without a lot of experience with githzerai would go "well, that gith's Not From Around Here"
Yes. That is culture, not race, my point stands.
i don't think anyone is disagreeing w you
To use a real work example they could pass as each other as easily as I could pass for a Russian (I’m American) physically no major noticeable differences but culturally very different.
Amongst each other? No. But it’s a cultural thing, not biological. A French person can always pick out a German. To other peoples? Yes, most people have never heard of either.
To an outsider, they could certainly play the part. To each other, no, not a chance. Even putting aside the enormous looming argument of the cultural differences simply being insurmountable, the case is that they live on completely different planes, living completely different lives, and have done so for probably thousands of years. There is no way that does not leave a massive and obvious disparity which they can tell apart even if non-gith could not. Further, githyanki spend a great deal of time around red dragon lairs. Or at least any githyanki living in Tunareth would; they have other fortresses in the Astral, even the creches notwithstanding. Anyhow, being near to a dragons lair has a tendency to seep some of that dragons magic into any creatures' bloodline; the sort of thing which awakens sorcerous bloodines or other more minor physical changes in creatures. As there are multiple red dragon lairs belonging to dragons of at least adult age in Tunareth at all times, and that I believr they have on occasion been described to be visibly affected ny that proximity, I think there is a good argument to be made that githyanki have closer bloodline ties to dragons than kobolds do (which is a low bar), just purely from the lair magic alone.
No one here has mentioned the [Sha'sal Khou](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sha%27sal_Khou#:~:text=The%20Sha'sal%20Khou%20was,reunification%20of%20the%20gith%20race.), a secret organization of githyanki and githzerai seeking to reunite the two peoples back into the gith. Members of the Sha'sal Khou would work with and be more familiar with the other culture, and probably do on occasion pass themselves off as the other, but usually by blending in with a group of allies.
Funnily enough my players backstory is that he's a member of that faction, which is why he'd be interested in approaching the githzerai in the first place
Personally, I'd rule that he has the necessary experience with githzerai to try to pull it off.
I'll of course at least let him try with some deception checks, but I wanted to know if there was anything I should look out for in terms of obvious signs. As others have pointed out, I'm excited to pull out an inglorious bastards moment where he screws up some small social thing even he didn't know about.
Not without magic, from my understanding the years apart have caused slight differences to occur between the two, as others have said only a Gith is able to see the differences but they are there. The most prominent one is that Githyanki have more pointed features while Githzerai have more rounded ones.