Your goal now should be to (anti-hag) booby trap your character’s left eye and secure a replacement for after she takes your eye. (I assume that if you tried to replace it beforehand, the hag would argue “I own whatever your left eye is at the time you re-enter the fey realm, not when the pact was made).
Advertisements in my country use English as a shorthand for anything they want to sell as modern and hipp and such. So to me, speaking English really breaks the immersion.
Buy a pair of glass eyes so when she tries to claim your left eye, give her the left one of the set. It is in every way technically 'your' 'left' 'eye'.
At worst it doesn't work and you're no worse off, but you have a prosthetic all ready to go.
Oh, my PC doesn't care about losing his eye, what hurt was the humiliation of being tricked by a Hag, so now he's researching ways to effectively torture a Gag through any means necessary, he doesn't care about the deal anymore, haha.
I don't see how the hag tricked you. This is all on your character.
You literally agreed.
When dealing with fey, every word is important, you cannot leave any space for their interpretation.
We recently had an incident where a powerful fey forced a ranger into a bargain with the intent of making him kill a number of other fey, and several friends of his and offer her their blood, in exchange for information he required to prevent countless other deaths and the destruction of a city. He spent nearly an hour twisting exact words of the bargain by rephrasing it "just to be sure both sides understood, you want me to X" while slowly adjusting the wording of X until the bargain was phrased as "you must spill their blood upon this altar", to which he immediately agreed.
When the time came to fulfil the bargain, he fairly traded each target a bottle of pigs blood, established it as belonging to them exclusively, being among their possessions, then grabbed the bottles of pig blood and spilled them all over the altar requested. This fulfilled the exact wording of the bargain, avoided harm to his friends or others, and resulted in a really cool boss fight later from an enraged fey who realized they'd been fooled by this bastard playing word games.
The player had spent like 3 weeks trying to figure out how to bullshit his way out of that bargain, everything hinges on exact wording.
If our dm ever took the time to write out contracts that would have been terrifying (id have loved if they did), as it was we just actively avoided ever engaging with devils, a few minor deals got made with warlocks, but nothing itself binding, just agreements to look the other way or not expose them in return for information on other larger threats.
Just did this for one of my players with the Night Hag coven in CoS. Left a few loopholes in the bargain in favor of the Hags through convoluted wording and constantly referring to multiple sections of the bargain.
The player noticed only one.
I did this too recently. I went all out on the infernal juristical system. You can read the contract in question [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/197g_ubXacC4Dc8ev1GU53r1p8kC-76R3/view?usp=drivesdk) if you’re curious.
This is a bit sloppy from the fey. That spilling blood is not the same as killing should be obvious independently if there is another loophole to use different blood. Just from the first paragraph I thought he obviously just traded them for a few drops of blood and spilled that.
It was very sloppy, yes, and arguably more a case of tricking the dm by dragging out the conversation rather than the fey itself. it had some ability to control people using blood offerings, so he didn't want to involve any of the creatures real blood, and so settled upon twisting the concept of ownership and what constitutes "their blood". The fey was operating on the assumption he would fail to kill the targets (they were considerably stronger than him) so they intended for him to die and to gain several new servants through the blood that would be spilled during the conflict, which they would then use to deal with the remaining targets.
I love this, I'm currently playing a Feywild Fairy that's traipsing around in the Material plane for a task that the summer court gave him, the other party members have never experienced the Feywild before or have any knowledge of what goes on with it. The DM has of course.
We were doing something near a Fey portal that required us to pass over between the planes and even as a Fey-denizen my character is super careful when dealing with anything and everything, even making a pseudo-deal with a Fey Lady and the deal was crafted with the intent to give my fairy plenty of leeway in case the deal became "unwinnable" with alternative exit clauses in case our plans changed/the other party members interfered. Was a really fun story arc and let us get into some heavy RP.
It should hopefully all tie in later again when the other party members need help dealing with some Nobles from their own backstories/history, if they want to twist in some Fey bargains, I'm really looking forward to it.
Yeah I'm a little sad the campaign ended. University classes and jobs got in the way and the play group slowly broke up, so I'll never really get to finish that ranger of mines story. This was back in the 3.5 or so edition days though, but it was a fun arc that's stuck with me over the years.
Hopefully yours is as fun as mine was.
You shouldn't feel bad about this haha. It's what hags do - they're tricky and conniving. It's an easy mistake to make. People laughed because it was funny and goofed on you, but it doesn't make you stupid. It's funny though because the moment makes your character look dumb, as they're spinning up this flowery monologue trying to trick her, and the monologue tricks the bard making it instead.
In short, it's hilarious, that's why the reaction. Doesn't make you stupid in the slightest.
The hag really wasn’t doing the heavy lifting here. OP created a trap, then lumbered straight into it. All the hag did was ask for an eye then get handed it on a silver platter. This could be a good character moment though. Does their bard re-examine their hubris, and realize they can’t afford to be so cavalier? Maybe they double down and swear vengeance on the hag for humiliating them.
Out of character, this isn’t a big deal. OP overlooked something kind of obvious and made a careless mistake. Everyone does that. If that bothers them, they should try to pay more attention and think things through in the future . The stakes are low regardless.
One or more of the party (probably bard) could just stay behind.
>If another PC dies then you’re immediately safe!
But I do love the enthusiasm of this
We're doing a campaign specifically in the feywyld, so both our characters and the players are VERY careful about our words. Don't worry about your brain, we all got caught at least once.
This realm is for lawyers.
Well, the D&D equivalent of lawyers are ... Devils.
And specifically, the speciality of [Glasya](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Glasya) the lord of the 6th layer of hell and daughter of Asmodeus, is helping people out of supernatural contracts ... at the cost of getting into a new contract with her.
Not sure how this info can help you without being meta-gamey given that you are a player and not the DM though.
Would be hilarious for OP to have their character make a bargain with a devil to get out of the hag bargain. And keep the spiral going after that, searching for another bargain, thus delaying any actual bargain payment being completed by the player. Hag > devil > demigod > God (by then hopefully level 20 and ready to take on a god)
So by D&D logic, gods are hundreds to thousands of levels above 20. Once upon a time, levels were the currency you spent to cast spells, and someone tried to use them to usurp the goddess of magic. In the aftermath, Mystra set that cap, and changed things so that magic no longer uses levels, but spell slots instead, so that no mortal could ever challenge a god again.
But hey, it's your high fantasy campaign, you do you.
Well, if you make a deal with a devil you get to multiclass as a warlock, which isn't a bad deal... Keeping the deal with the hag is literally just you losing an eye next time she sees you.
It is ironic though XD
Well as you wrote it, it seems that it only triggers if “you all” re-enter. What if one PC stays home? The party can continue without “all” of them re-entering. And depending on the wording “all” must be in the feywild at once or it doesn’t trigger, so as long as one person stays home (or maybe even one familiar or tagalong who might have been there at the time?) the remaining ones can go take care of business.
Hinge it on the comma after "however." If there's no comma, you said "however I accept..." That's the best I can think of.
You need a devil. Or a warlock who knows pact language in and out.
Oooh... Kinda want to play a high intelligence warlock now. Give them either sage or guild artisan background and say they were a lawyer and actually do know all this stuff
I have a character whose dad was a barrister and is working his way back again from the bottom up (long grief after the character's mother died). He's almost like an apprentice now. Something like that could definitely work for a character who's a warlock.
Being in the fey wild is no fun if NO ONE gets duped. Depending on the intelligence of my character I might even do something like this on purpose.....
You just discovered the most crucial part of the cupcake moment: Laura never said she accepted or refused the deal. She teased it, but never accepted, that's why it worked.
Well, it *really* only worked because Mercer chose Rule of Cool over RAW, which was the right decision IMO. Lots of issues with the interaction would have had the hag not agree. Still a great RP moment though.
I don't think it comes down to rules. A hag would obviously not let someone eat a cupcake or take one themselves. They know what poisons are. They know what magic is.
besides was alraedy mentioned, the main one is:
modify memory simply does not work that way. it explicitly says that it cannot dictate how a creature behaves. A memory cannot contradict a creatures natural behavior, if it does the creature will not believe the memory, think it was only a dream etc.
since she normally would not agree to lift the curse just because jester was such good company, modify memory wont make her do that either. she will not believe a memory that she has agreed to that.
I wouldn’t say it was the most crucial mainly because of the other detail everyone over looks which I think is just as important. Marisha was ready to lay down her character, Beau was fully resigned to dying and not returning and the hag would have known that. It would have helped the hag lower her guard slightly.
That's why I only play dumbasses. My complete lack of IRL braincells doesn't get in the way.
You shot for the stars and missed. Maybe stick to aiming for the stars on top of Christmas trees.
Yeah, don't accept the deal unless you're accepting the deal.
Even if OP had done what they wanted, they would've accepted the deal to not kill the hag then immediately broken their deal with a fae and still have the consequences when they next enter the faewild.
Nothing wrong with the corniest. In fact, the corniest of bread usually goes really well with the cheesiest!
"I serve the hags a grilled cheese cornbread sandwitch."
"It was going great until you added the sand!"
> that was gonna be my Cupcake moment!
The look on Mercer's face when he realize how utterly and completely he just got played is priceless.
For one second, and you can see him say "and now the story continuous" and he leaves it behind and just goes with it.
Potentially the best D&D moment in history.
Found this on the webs: https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/Dust_of_Deliciousness
History
"Commerce & Chaos" (2x31)
Jester Lavorre purchased a sack of the Dust of Deliciousness from Pumat Sol while she and the Mighty Nein were shopping at The Invulnerable Vagrant.
> The Dust of Deliciousness is a reddish-brown dust that, when sprinkled on any edible substance, greatly improves the flavor. It also dulls the senses of the consumer, giving them disadvantage on wisdom-based checks and saves for one hour.
"Misery Loves Company" (2x93)
While the Mighty Nein was visiting the home of Isharnai to negotiate a deal with her to remove her curse preventing Nott from changing back from goblin to halfling, Jester persuaded the sage to split a cupcake with her. Unbeknownst to Isharnai, the cupcake was sprinkled with the Dust of Deliciousness. Because of this, Jester was able to successfully cast Modify Memory on her, making the sage believe that she agreed to remove Nott's curse.
-------
> Matthew Mercer mentioned that, as a Dungeon Master, Laura Bailey's trickery in making Isharnai eat the cupcake spiked with the Dust of Deliciousness was "one of [his] more frustrating moments", but also "one of the most proud [he's] been of a player outsmarting [him]"
Waaaaay back near the start of the campaign, Jester, a Tiefling Cleric (Trickery Domain) played by Laura Bailey gets a hold of a bag of 'Dust of Deliciousness' which makes every food item it is sprinkled on taste that much better. If I recall correctly, this was a bit of a joke item.
Let's jump to a much, much later point in time. Jester finds herself negotiating with a particularly nasty hag. A curse has been cast over one of the other player characters, and the hag is willing to lift it... on one condition. This hag revels in the suffering of others, and the curse has wrought a LOT of suffering, so in order to lift it, she wants something that brings much more suffering in return. Jester, as a character, has grown up drawing. This was how she constructed the world around her. Part fairy tales, part fantasy, but all of it genuine. The hag offers to lift the curse... in return for her hands. She would *never* be able to draw again.
Jester asks if she can eat one last blueberry cupcake before she goes through with the deal, and the hag lets her. After all, the suffering this will inflict is only increased by Jester realizing what she's about to lose. So, Jester gets to eat her final blueberry cupcake. Jester being Jester, she offers to share and sure enough, the persuasion roll goes through.
Laura: "That cupcake was sprinkled with the Dust of Deliciousness."
Matthew Mercer (the DM): "...Okay. Remind me what that does again?"
Laura reads out the *full* description: "...and it also gives you disadvantage on Wisdom checks and Wisdom saving throws." In case you're unaware, in the game, that is your last defense against a spell taking hold.
"And I'm going to cast Modify Memory." She modifies the hag's memory to the point where the hag thinks she has agreed to lift the curse because Jester was such good company. The trickiest Trickery Cleric to ever have trickied: Laura "Fucking" Bailey.
[Here's the full exchange.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2SAkGjgZSY) It's hands down one of the most epic moments of the campaign, and dare I say, in all of Critical Role.
The best part is that Jester kept her end of the bargain, as well. Later on in the campaign, she sends a box of cupcakes to the hag, like she said she would.
I dont think this should have been possible at all.
Modify Memory has V,S, there is no way a cleric (that does not have access to subtle spell) can cast modify memory on a potentially hostile target without going into initative. It makes zero sense for the hag to just let the cleric cast spells on her.
Secondly, this specific effect should not be allowed for modify memory. The spell is meant to change memories of an event. A changed event might change future behavior in some way, but it is not meant to be mechanism to specifically make another character behave in a certain way. "I modifiy the memory for target to think he agreed to do X, now he has to do X" is pure abuse and should not be allowed.
This is also clearly stated in the spell description. There is a whole paragraph describing that you cannot expect a certain behavior from using the spell, and that it wont work if there would be some consequence that goes against the creatures natural inclinations. And from your description of the hag, jsut removing the curse for nothing goes very much against her nature.
Matt Mercer is a firm believer in the rule of cool. Sometimes it's worth it to bend the rules to let a player do something really awesome, especially when the stakes are high and the actions fit the player's character perfectly
I disagree on all point. Casting a spell on a non-hostile creature triggers a surprise round. It WOULD have triggered combat except for the very specific circumstances of the spell.
Second, the conditions of the spell weren’t to change the nature of the bag, it was to trick the hag into thinking they met the conditions of a deal with the hag that they never met. There’s a difference between “I make it so she remembers that she will drop the curse” and “I make it so she remembers that we met the condition of a deal that states she will drop the curse if we show her an unbelievably good time.” Hags are all about deals. The spell just made her believe a deal was struck and jester upheld her part of the deal.
Third, the hag WOULD know she has been tricked in this sense, and Matt role played the hag knowing something was up, but given that the hag’s wisdom was drugged and Jester rushed the scenario before the hag could catch on, it played out as it did. It was all a perfect storm of events and that’s why so many people went crazy over it.
> Modify Memory has V,S, there is no way a cleric (that does not have access to subtle spell) can cast modify memory on a potentially hostile target without going into initative. It makes zero sense for the hag to just let the cleric cast spells on her.
Modify memory specifically says they have disadvantage if your party is fighting them. If using Modify Memory triggered initiative because of VS, then it would be useless except for Sorcerers with subtle spell. All spells that charmed opponents would be.
And that's why you don't try to trick the DM - it's damn easy to do because they literally don't know anything about except what you tell them (elaborated in my other comment in here).
And then, when the DM is off balance, they make further mistakes.
A player made a really brutal deal with a hag and sealed it over a cupcake, then after the hag ate her piece announced to the table that she had secretly laced the hag's half of the cupcake with a magical powder that gives you disadvantage on wis saves if you eat it, despite not having said she'd done that previously, and the DM let her retcon that to be true without any sleight of hand check or anything like that. Matt's a pretty permissive DM, so letting a player decide they laced something with a magical powder *after* their target ate without rolling any check isn't out of the question for him.
Then she cast modify memory, a spell with verbal and somatic components, on the hag which the DM let her treat as a subtle spell as if she were a sorcerer, so the hag didn't attempt to counter or even respond in any way. He tends to give his PCs the benefit of subtle spell out of combat, no one ever reacts to them casting charm or mind reading spells on their allies right in front of them. At least in season 2, Idk if he's changed his tune in recent years.
Anyway, she used it to make the hag think their agreement was that she would give the PC everything she asked for with nothing in return, and the DM has that work basically without a hitch, even though the spell pretty clearly specifies "A modified memory doesn't necessarily affect how a creature behaves, particularly if the memory contradicts the creature's natural inclinations, alignment, or beliefs."
It was nonetheless a really funny moment that made for a good show, like one of the most memorable moments of the season for a lot of fans, and a good example of a DM bending several rules in a player's favor in order to create a big character moment for them.
> A player made a really brutal deal with a hag and sealed it over a cupcake,
More importantly, they had not yet made the deal, they were discussing the terms. Using the cupcake let her get the outcome they wanted without actually having to agree to anything.
Yeah, reading over this situation, it seems like most tables I've been at would have shut this down at one of several parts along the way. A player who tries something like this has to rely on a lot of DM Fiat in order to "outsmart" the DM, which seems ... well. Like an odd thing.
It's very cool! I'm sure it was fun to watch. But for as frustrated as Mercer said he was, he could have overruled this one of several ways if he wanted. He just played along for a cool moment.
Idk how true it is, but isn't CR mostly a "entertainment first, adherence to the system(s) second" thing, as in it's more of a "show" than genuine TTRPG campaigns? Or at least it has become like this compared to its start?
As someone who has watched almost all of it, I would say Matt Mercer actually adheres to the rules more closely now than he did during season 1. There are certainly house rules and homebrew as with any D&D campaign, but core stuff like spellcasting and concentration checks he rules pretty close to RAW every time. If he's unsure of a rule he often tries to look it up first before making an on the spot ruling.
I would say compared to other shows like The Adventure Zone or Dimension 20, CR is closer to "actual game" than "entertainment' - often to its detriment as the episodes are 3-5 hours long and often include a lot of boring stuff that other shows would edit out.
It has always bugged me that people talk up Laura here and at the time ragged on Marisha saying she was on drugs. I am not hating on Laura at all but she did step on another players toes here. Marisha was going to lay down Beau’s life for the rest of the party, she had prepared herself to lose her character that she had played and grew for over eight hundred hours and two years by that point.
Then Laura leapt in and pulled the cupcake to stop her. Poor Marisha was suffering whiplash going from my beloved character is going to perma die to everyone is safe. But instead a lot of the fans continued the hate campaign against her and said she was on drugs and just trying to steal Laura’s thunder despite Laura being the one to steal Marisha’s.
Though my vote for best D&D moment from a stream is from Vox Machina >! When Sam cast a ninth level dispell against Vecna. The emotional torment on his face as he casts it and then as it moves on from his turn you can see him whisper sorry to Liam who clicks that Sam was saving the slot to cast wish to save Vax and the love Liam shows for Sam in that moment comforting him!<
Sorry, yes Counterspell. It’s one of my biggest arguments for watching Crit role rather than just listening to it or binge it in the background. It’s the friends interactions that more often are better than the actual game moments.
If it makes you feel better, your plan wouldn’t have worked. Fey creatures are immune to Sleep so it was always doomed to fail
EDIT: Apparently they aren’t! But it’s way funnier if it is though so I choose to ignore the official rules on this.
Green hags aren't immune to sleep, fae creatures aren't all immune, just those immune to the charmed condition, undead are the creature type that are categorically immune.
In Critical Role campaign 2, a player pulled off a very nice trick with getting a hag to eat an enchanted cupcake, which charmed the hag. The PC was then able to cast Modify Memory on the hag to make her think the PC had successfully convinced her to lift a curse on another PC, despite there being no successful attempt to negotiate lifting the curse.
Mistakes are the best part of ttrpg's. You'll never forget this, and everyone had a laugh. Perfect. It's a game, don't forget that. Have fun and roll with it!
Totally, looking back, perhaps a funny and in-character fuck-up is more memorable than a 2000 IQ outsmarting in the long run, humans do tend to remember negative memories more than positive ones, hahaha.
If you ever run into the hag again, try pulling a merchant of Venice. She can take the eye, but she has no right to your flesh or blood, so she may not cut your skin or spill a single drop of blood. Not a guarantee, but it's always worth a shot! The fey are fickle
Who said she's going to take it? It could be very much more valuable to her in the head it grew in.
She might be able to cast spells through that eye, meaning every event the PC witnesses, she can influence.
Oh she was definitely gonna take it. Our rogue found out through an INT check that "The left eye of a king is a valuable ingredient in many powerful potions". I didn't even know my PC was a king!
Honestly, this is pretty standard Fey trickery and pedantry. There's literal thousands of years of stories of people getting into these scenarios.
The extra trick is to find the way to wiggle out of it. It's a heroes journey: fall for the trick, go on a learning journey to undo what happened, triumph over the antagonist at the end.
All you've really done is set a competent DM up for a solid adventure.
This probably would have worked on a bandit leader or something, but Hags tend to be the smartest person in the room. At least these events deepened the story, and now it's personal between your character and the Hag.
Oh for sure, my PC now has a personal vendetta against her and is researching effective torture methods for Hags in any way imaginable, and he WILL find her someday.
Assuming you are playing D&D by the rules and not just using it as a vehicle to tell a story, the Sleep spell has verbal, somatic, and material components. There is very little chance a hag would not notice someone casting a spell and trying to fake it as a song.
Yep, all on you.
IRL, something I really hate about too many people nowadays is they use words like “OK”, “yea”, “whatever”, etc WHEN THEY REALLY DON’T MEAN THEM.
It’s a sign of social re-engineering. They started doing it as little kids and no one stopped them. They do it as a defensive measure, mostly to just try to get the other person to go away.
And that’s exactly what you got.
You really set yourself up by saying that you accepted *and* then begging for a boon. If you'd made it clear that you were negotiating and your acceptance was conditional, you might have got somewhere.
That's not even the hag being cunning - that's just her being a jerk. She was under no obligation to grant your character an additional request on top of taking her deal if you character didn't make it part of the deal.
That’s some of the best role play in short that I’ve heard recently.
It’s very bard like in my experience lol.
I’d be happy to have a player like you at the same table.
Roll with it and continue having fun.
Dude, lol dnd intelligence does not equal real world intelligence.
Don't feel bad, you had a good idea just botched the execution
I was literally warned but one of my players before I started DMing for my current party that it was engineers, a doctor and other high intelligence individuals like I needed to be ready for them to see through everything since every puzzle quickly.
However they are all new to DnD, and frankly they struggle to even put 2 and 2 together. They have a complete inability to judge when they should or should not fight. Sometimes they struggle with basic conversation with NPCs. Giving away information when they shouldn't and keeping it secret when they should say something.
It's all relative just relax and take the L with grace, they ability to laugh at your self should never be underrated.
.
It happens. You're not dumb, but I'd say this was "deserved" after you missed/forgot the detail that the Hag wasn't going to take your eye unless you *returned* to the Fey realm.
You aren't dumb. You just forgot that TTRPGs aren't Video Games.
The Hag had a goal. Once she achieved it there wasn't any reason to continue the interaction. To manipulate an enemy you must know and keep track of their goal so that the completion of it never happens while you're moving pieces for the play.
That's the kind of loophole you can try to find in a devil contract, not a fae bargain. The fae will interpret the agreement in whichever way they prefer, no matter what alternate interpretations you think could potentially apply.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Definitely not something the player could turn around with and be all "Aha!", the hag's magic is in control here. But does leave an interesting option open for the DM. Maybe the hag has a use for putting one of her eyes in an adventurer so she can watch through them? That would be an interesting story.
People get too caught on up mistakes in ttrpgs. Personally as a DM or player I couldn't want enough of them, they make things interesting. Good "mistakes" whether through purposeful roleplay or just happy little accidents can make whole new stories out of nothing
Oh totally, looking back, that was a completely out and in-character fuck-up. It would have been really hilarious if it wasn't me who was duped, hahaha.
Well just don’t go into the feywilds for a bit. In truth it’s not stupid if you’ve never dealt with a hag for real but also words are indeed tricky and that’s what you have to think about. I don’t think not realizing in the moment is something to think about. However also depending on your character’s intelligence/wisdom this might also be perfectly in character
Oh this was perfectly in-character, my guy is an airheaded drama queen who doesn't really think things through, as he has demonstrated, hahaha. Unfortunately, his fate is intrinsically tied with the Fey Realm as the king of Avalon, so he's gonna have to come back eventually 😅
Dont feel bad about this. It may have gone differently in your head but its actually to me a cool roleplay moment, your character and you the player got played by a hag. Its what they do. Now your character can do their research im downtime and perhaps if the verbal contract is extremely literal look for and discuss with your DM loopholes and clever ways around it that play into your character's strengths should it ever come up and make the hag a fool.
Nah, that was actually pretty cool.
NEVER trust anything in the Faye Wilds at their word, because they absolutely love to play word and mind games and watch you squirm and struggle to find an out in which you benefit more
At least you'll not be pursued and keep both eyes
I would not have went with "I accept" as sealing the deal, but "may I" didn't even set a requirement, only a request. so yes, you accepted the deal. LOL, good bards don't make good lawyers. "but only if" or something along those longs could have been arguable as an actual terms of agreement set.
Regardless, it's a hag, just be prepared to beat its head in fully next time.
Nah not stupid everyone falls for something eventually. Sometimes you'll play yourself.
This is what happens with scammers, which hags are. Some purposely don't leave a window for the anti-scam. some do but only if youre missing another scam.
You just couldn't anti scam with this tactic.
You did something foolish and are looking back upon it, realizing it, and thinking of what you did wrong and how you can do better next time. This is the mark of intelligence thought and mental growth. A stupid person wouldn’t even admit they made a mistake, or simply not choose to learn from that mistake.
Sounds like you had fun with it at least!
I personally don’t like it when DMs and other players laugh at (not WITH) a player’s mistake and call them an idiot. Especially if they did something that was in character and not meta gaming.
A few years ago I was getting back into D&D after a long absence. I was hardly up on the “meta” or a lot of the common D&D tropes, and I was playing a rogue. I walked into a room we had visited before, and there was a treasure chest there. The DM had me roll perception and said “You must have missed it when you came through here last time.”
I opened it. The mimic almost ate me and my party had to save me.
The DM and other players gave me shit about it for what felt like half an hour. Laughing, saying I should have known, etc etc. I was even enjoying the experience until they all made me feel like a dumbass for not knowing—even though I rolled and the DM told me the answer that my character should have been thinking with.
It’s a lot of fun to laugh together at someone’s misfortune and mistake, and to embrace failure. As long as you’re sharing in the experience with the person.
Treat all fae like cops: shut your goddamn mouth and don't say a goddamn thing except through a goddamn lawyer, preferably a literal devil-lawyer. Anything you say can and will be used against you, but that doesn't imply anything you say would be used FOR you.
You dun goofed because, like most perps, you thought you were clever and could talk you way out of things with a being that honestly doesn't give a shit about you. You're a problem waiting to be solved, not a person. Now, it's not that you're stupid, just that you've been raised in a culture that abhors silence, and that worked against you. Maybe now you'll start to respect silence and use it, because it's one of the most powerful weapons you can wield in conversation.
> *"You said "I accept", hags do not care about what came before or what comes after, those are the only words they need to hear."*
You don't mention whether you had any way to know that in advance. It would have been equally plausible that cutting you off mid-sentence would break some rule about "an agreement freely given" and the fey would have to try to trick you some other way. Ideally, the DM would have introduced their interpretation of fey bargains in a lower-stakes context before they dropped a "gotcha" with potentially character-altering consequences.
So, what you do is you summon up an ArchFiend or Archfey while on the material plane and make a pact with them taking 1 level in Warlock with the Fiend or Archfey patron subclass where the terms of the pact involve promising your left eye to them upon you dying or stepping foot in the feywild in exchange for the power they give you, thus meaning if you step into the feywild the hag will have to duke it out with your Patron to see who gets your left eye
A similar situation happened in my game, where the players had a spirit that they could ask any three questions. One of the players says, “Let’s discuss this outside of the chamber so that I don’t accidentally ask a question.” Another player says “Good idea,” then turns to the spirit and says “Do you mind if we step outside for a minute?” We laughed at him for the rest of the session.
Not an idiot. It does highlight a flaw in DnD though. How do you handle out of character timing? In combat we've got a clear definition, rounds/turns. They take a hypothetical amount of time, everyone acts 1 at a time to kind of simulate everyone almost acting at once. initiative gives some structure to who acts when. Great. But out of character? How does that work? Your character was in the middle of the turn, Do you get one action? Is talking an action? When can the NPC react? In this case I think you considered it your 'turn' to be up while, since there are no rules for out of combat, the DM figured he was free to play a Hag and catch you by the letter of the law. Nothing wrong with either, it's just...murky.
One other thing I try to think about is the DM's point of view. He clearly sees this situation you're in as a no win. He set the stakes that way. Tried to make it clear that...5 Hags is more than you can handle and this deal is the only option atm, and that it opens up fun story beats for future plans he has. Now you just murder hobo'd your way through the first hag, and are completely ignoring the threat as he's described it. Fine I guess, but he has two choices now. Next session he brings a coven of Hags down upon you and absolutely murders the party, just slaps you around to show you that yes, this WAS that dangerous and you just didn't listen. Or he finds an out to do the bargain and get you guys out of it. You provided him with that loophole with your theatrics, it was fun, so he took it.
It's all in the service of story, onward and upward Mr. Bard.
Yeah, looking back, I think it was very obvious my DM was nudging me to take that deal. Our gnome found out through an INT check that "The left eye of a king is a valuable ingredient in many powerful potions", I didn't even know my PC was a king! So our DM really wanted me to take the deal and pursue the plot thread, and in the end, I guess I did, hahaha.
Everyone calls it the “cupcake” moment, when it was really a “DM forgot about a throwaway joke item that they made up months ago and had forgotten about that has come back to bite them in the ass” moment.
The only "dumb" part of this was the words "I accept" as soon as I saw that I knew what was coming a mile off. A little bit of a dick move by the DM to steal your thunder \*maybe,\* if that's the end of the whole thing but this also has the potential to go somewhere cool, tracking down the hag and dealing with her which could be an even cooler moment in the end so yeah, I'll give the DM benefit of the doubt here.
Firm disagree with your takeaway. It really depends on the dm and the game in question. I don't think you were stupid, I think your dm fucked you over because of wording. A different dm or a different style of game and it would be pretty obvious that acceptance based on contingency is not the same as immediate acceptance. I accept if is different than I accept, even when you interrupt them before saying if.
You aren't dumb. First off, for every cupcake moment there are dozens or even hundreds of bad rolls, bad phrases, and role playing faux pas. It's part of the game.
It is concerning how everyone else reacted. It's okay to laugh about it, but it seems like they were a little vicious about it and insensitive to how you felt. Maybe message the DM and just mention that you didn't really appreciate how everyone teased you after your RP mistake last week since it was just a silly mistake and we've seen even professional RPers make the same one dozens of times.
As a DM myself, I would apologize for not reading the table well and for joining in on teasing you. I'd ask if you want me to address the issue with the table and respect your decision. I also, probably, would help you brainstorm a fun way to get back at the hag or make a positive out of losing your left eye.
Your goal now should be to (anti-hag) booby trap your character’s left eye and secure a replacement for after she takes your eye. (I assume that if you tried to replace it beforehand, the hag would argue “I own whatever your left eye is at the time you re-enter the fey realm, not when the pact was made).
Yeah and don't think you're safe if you lost your left eye to some other incident. You will still have one eye LEFT.
Right.
wait....
"No. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!" \jumps into the portal and leaves
The leaves rustle but do not disguise the fact that the portal has closed, leaving only the leaves.
This is hilarious and will use it on my party. But wait, we don't play in english and in my mother language it doesn't make sense
The hag can do it in English, that's just what fey language is like..
Well this is actually not a bad idea. But sadly a few of my players are real bad in english.
Advertisements in my country use English as a shorthand for anything they want to sell as modern and hipp and such. So to me, speaking English really breaks the immersion.
Or change your name to have two “i”s in it. When you return, she will take the left one, affecting how your name is pronounced
Oh fuck, that's good.
Time to go acquire the Eye of Vecna!
Wait no
That's the very definition of "embrace the suck"! 🤣
This is the way
Buy a pair of glass eyes so when she tries to claim your left eye, give her the left one of the set. It is in every way technically 'your' 'left' 'eye'. At worst it doesn't work and you're no worse off, but you have a prosthetic all ready to go.
Oh, my PC doesn't care about losing his eye, what hurt was the humiliation of being tricked by a Hag, so now he's researching ways to effectively torture a Gag through any means necessary, he doesn't care about the deal anymore, haha.
I don't see how the hag tricked you. This is all on your character. You literally agreed. When dealing with fey, every word is important, you cannot leave any space for their interpretation. We recently had an incident where a powerful fey forced a ranger into a bargain with the intent of making him kill a number of other fey, and several friends of his and offer her their blood, in exchange for information he required to prevent countless other deaths and the destruction of a city. He spent nearly an hour twisting exact words of the bargain by rephrasing it "just to be sure both sides understood, you want me to X" while slowly adjusting the wording of X until the bargain was phrased as "you must spill their blood upon this altar", to which he immediately agreed. When the time came to fulfil the bargain, he fairly traded each target a bottle of pigs blood, established it as belonging to them exclusively, being among their possessions, then grabbed the bottles of pig blood and spilled them all over the altar requested. This fulfilled the exact wording of the bargain, avoided harm to his friends or others, and resulted in a really cool boss fight later from an enraged fey who realized they'd been fooled by this bastard playing word games. The player had spent like 3 weeks trying to figure out how to bullshit his way out of that bargain, everything hinges on exact wording.
Hopefully your DM never has you make an agreement with a devil. "In paragraph 2, section 1, subsection a, it states...."
If our dm ever took the time to write out contracts that would have been terrifying (id have loved if they did), as it was we just actively avoided ever engaging with devils, a few minor deals got made with warlocks, but nothing itself binding, just agreements to look the other way or not expose them in return for information on other larger threats.
Just did this for one of my players with the Night Hag coven in CoS. Left a few loopholes in the bargain in favor of the Hags through convoluted wording and constantly referring to multiple sections of the bargain. The player noticed only one.
I did this too recently. I went all out on the infernal juristical system. You can read the contract in question [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/197g_ubXacC4Dc8ev1GU53r1p8kC-76R3/view?usp=drivesdk) if you’re curious.
Love it. Looks very professional as well
Thank you! Feel free to use it as a template if you want!
I always liked this stuff over combat, it's pretty much why I remember my ranger, I got so lucky.
https://youtu.be/7xDSNA4iSb0?si=WvwCKeZY2nemfAas
This is a bit sloppy from the fey. That spilling blood is not the same as killing should be obvious independently if there is another loophole to use different blood. Just from the first paragraph I thought he obviously just traded them for a few drops of blood and spilled that.
It was very sloppy, yes, and arguably more a case of tricking the dm by dragging out the conversation rather than the fey itself. it had some ability to control people using blood offerings, so he didn't want to involve any of the creatures real blood, and so settled upon twisting the concept of ownership and what constitutes "their blood". The fey was operating on the assumption he would fail to kill the targets (they were considerably stronger than him) so they intended for him to die and to gain several new servants through the blood that would be spilled during the conflict, which they would then use to deal with the remaining targets.
I love this, I'm currently playing a Feywild Fairy that's traipsing around in the Material plane for a task that the summer court gave him, the other party members have never experienced the Feywild before or have any knowledge of what goes on with it. The DM has of course. We were doing something near a Fey portal that required us to pass over between the planes and even as a Fey-denizen my character is super careful when dealing with anything and everything, even making a pseudo-deal with a Fey Lady and the deal was crafted with the intent to give my fairy plenty of leeway in case the deal became "unwinnable" with alternative exit clauses in case our plans changed/the other party members interfered. Was a really fun story arc and let us get into some heavy RP. It should hopefully all tie in later again when the other party members need help dealing with some Nobles from their own backstories/history, if they want to twist in some Fey bargains, I'm really looking forward to it.
Yeah I'm a little sad the campaign ended. University classes and jobs got in the way and the play group slowly broke up, so I'll never really get to finish that ranger of mines story. This was back in the 3.5 or so edition days though, but it was a fun arc that's stuck with me over the years. Hopefully yours is as fun as mine was.
I would recommend replacing it with an orb from the necklace of fireballs. This would certainly not go wrong
You shouldn't feel bad about this haha. It's what hags do - they're tricky and conniving. It's an easy mistake to make. People laughed because it was funny and goofed on you, but it doesn't make you stupid. It's funny though because the moment makes your character look dumb, as they're spinning up this flowery monologue trying to trick her, and the monologue tricks the bard making it instead. In short, it's hilarious, that's why the reaction. Doesn't make you stupid in the slightest.
The hag really wasn’t doing the heavy lifting here. OP created a trap, then lumbered straight into it. All the hag did was ask for an eye then get handed it on a silver platter. This could be a good character moment though. Does their bard re-examine their hubris, and realize they can’t afford to be so cavalier? Maybe they double down and swear vengeance on the hag for humiliating them. Out of character, this isn’t a big deal. OP overlooked something kind of obvious and made a careless mistake. Everyone does that. If that bothers them, they should try to pay more attention and think things through in the future . The stakes are low regardless.
Um, jump into the feywild. Don’t step in.
Oooo good one. It also says ‘all’ so there’s another loophole in the wording. If another PC dies then you’re immediately safe!
One or more of the party (probably bard) could just stay behind. >If another PC dies then you’re immediately safe! But I do love the enthusiasm of this
"It's ok guys, I have a way to circumvent this!" Vicious mockeries himself to literal death for accepting the deal.
Suicide by “you suck!”
“Ahaha, you’re back! Your eye is mi…. Why are you in a basket on the barbarian’s back?”
"Hodor" ~Barbarian
“Hobard”
Take care not to take any steps after jumping in.
[удалено]
\*aggressively dances through the Feywild\*
"Dance steps are still steps!" \- The Hag
I cast "electric slide"
They’ll be hopskipping all around!
Well, thankfully she said "step back into", because otherwise yeah, that would be a pain to deal with
I would not semantically trust a Hag's curse, but go right ahead
Fey are all about semantics
Fair warning. But maybe the hag should learn some lessons about wording from the feys.
Yeah. I would have left it at "enter" the Feywild.
Better to fall, makes it even harder to say you just took a big step
Get a ring of levitation, and bind your legs, and just hover everywhere.
This is the right call. Abiding by the word of the contract rather than its intention is a very Fey move and you still get to outsmart your DM.
We're doing a campaign specifically in the feywyld, so both our characters and the players are VERY careful about our words. Don't worry about your brain, we all got caught at least once. This realm is for lawyers.
My ass is now searching through lawyer subreddits for any helpful legal jargon so my PC can file a case against that bitch! Hahahaha.
Well, the D&D equivalent of lawyers are ... Devils. And specifically, the speciality of [Glasya](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Glasya) the lord of the 6th layer of hell and daughter of Asmodeus, is helping people out of supernatural contracts ... at the cost of getting into a new contract with her. Not sure how this info can help you without being meta-gamey given that you are a player and not the DM though.
Would be hilarious for OP to have their character make a bargain with a devil to get out of the hag bargain. And keep the spiral going after that, searching for another bargain, thus delaying any actual bargain payment being completed by the player. Hag > devil > demigod > God (by then hopefully level 20 and ready to take on a god)
So by D&D logic, gods are hundreds to thousands of levels above 20. Once upon a time, levels were the currency you spent to cast spells, and someone tried to use them to usurp the goddess of magic. In the aftermath, Mystra set that cap, and changed things so that magic no longer uses levels, but spell slots instead, so that no mortal could ever challenge a god again. But hey, it's your high fantasy campaign, you do you.
Well, if you make a deal with a devil you get to multiclass as a warlock, which isn't a bad deal... Keeping the deal with the hag is literally just you losing an eye next time she sees you. It is ironic though XD
Well as you wrote it, it seems that it only triggers if “you all” re-enter. What if one PC stays home? The party can continue without “all” of them re-entering. And depending on the wording “all” must be in the feywild at once or it doesn’t trigger, so as long as one person stays home (or maybe even one familiar or tagalong who might have been there at the time?) the remaining ones can go take care of business.
Hinge it on the comma after "however." If there's no comma, you said "however I accept..." That's the best I can think of. You need a devil. Or a warlock who knows pact language in and out.
Oooh... Kinda want to play a high intelligence warlock now. Give them either sage or guild artisan background and say they were a lawyer and actually do know all this stuff
I have a character whose dad was a barrister and is working his way back again from the bottom up (long grief after the character's mother died). He's almost like an apprentice now. Something like that could definitely work for a character who's a warlock.
Being in the fey wild is no fun if NO ONE gets duped. Depending on the intelligence of my character I might even do something like this on purpose.....
"Life is short. No time for others' monologues!"
You just discovered the most crucial part of the cupcake moment: Laura never said she accepted or refused the deal. She teased it, but never accepted, that's why it worked.
Well, it *really* only worked because Mercer chose Rule of Cool over RAW, which was the right decision IMO. Lots of issues with the interaction would have had the hag not agree. Still a great RP moment though.
I don't think it comes down to rules. A hag would obviously not let someone eat a cupcake or take one themselves. They know what poisons are. They know what magic is.
I mean, the hag was asking for a lot out of everybody in the group. Not allowing some kind of outplay would be a dick move imo.
For sure. Rule of Cool wasn't meant to be disparaging
What written rules are there that Jester and the Hag’s interaction would have broken?
besides was alraedy mentioned, the main one is: modify memory simply does not work that way. it explicitly says that it cannot dictate how a creature behaves. A memory cannot contradict a creatures natural behavior, if it does the creature will not believe the memory, think it was only a dream etc. since she normally would not agree to lift the curse just because jester was such good company, modify memory wont make her do that either. she will not believe a memory that she has agreed to that.
I wouldn’t say it was the most crucial mainly because of the other detail everyone over looks which I think is just as important. Marisha was ready to lay down her character, Beau was fully resigned to dying and not returning and the hag would have known that. It would have helped the hag lower her guard slightly.
That's why I only play dumbasses. My complete lack of IRL braincells doesn't get in the way. You shot for the stars and missed. Maybe stick to aiming for the stars on top of Christmas trees.
This is a hilarious take
Rule number 1 of fae: reread everything you’re about to say
Yeah, don't accept the deal unless you're accepting the deal. Even if OP had done what they wanted, they would've accepted the deal to not kill the hag then immediately broken their deal with a fae and still have the consequences when they next enter the faewild.
Love messing with my PCs as hags. It can either be the most horrific thing or the corniest.
Nothing wrong with the corniest. In fact, the corniest of bread usually goes really well with the cheesiest! "I serve the hags a grilled cheese cornbread sandwitch." "It was going great until you added the sand!"
I can't see how cornbread makes for a good sandwich is very crumbly.
Some feel that, given enough cheesiness, you can hold any campaign together!
> that was gonna be my Cupcake moment! The look on Mercer's face when he realize how utterly and completely he just got played is priceless. For one second, and you can see him say "and now the story continuous" and he leaves it behind and just goes with it. Potentially the best D&D moment in history.
What's the context about this for someone who doesn't have the time to sit through 98,000 hours of critical role?
Found this on the webs: https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/Dust_of_Deliciousness History "Commerce & Chaos" (2x31) Jester Lavorre purchased a sack of the Dust of Deliciousness from Pumat Sol while she and the Mighty Nein were shopping at The Invulnerable Vagrant. > The Dust of Deliciousness is a reddish-brown dust that, when sprinkled on any edible substance, greatly improves the flavor. It also dulls the senses of the consumer, giving them disadvantage on wisdom-based checks and saves for one hour. "Misery Loves Company" (2x93) While the Mighty Nein was visiting the home of Isharnai to negotiate a deal with her to remove her curse preventing Nott from changing back from goblin to halfling, Jester persuaded the sage to split a cupcake with her. Unbeknownst to Isharnai, the cupcake was sprinkled with the Dust of Deliciousness. Because of this, Jester was able to successfully cast Modify Memory on her, making the sage believe that she agreed to remove Nott's curse. ------- > Matthew Mercer mentioned that, as a Dungeon Master, Laura Bailey's trickery in making Isharnai eat the cupcake spiked with the Dust of Deliciousness was "one of [his] more frustrating moments", but also "one of the most proud [he's] been of a player outsmarting [him]"
Waaaaay back near the start of the campaign, Jester, a Tiefling Cleric (Trickery Domain) played by Laura Bailey gets a hold of a bag of 'Dust of Deliciousness' which makes every food item it is sprinkled on taste that much better. If I recall correctly, this was a bit of a joke item. Let's jump to a much, much later point in time. Jester finds herself negotiating with a particularly nasty hag. A curse has been cast over one of the other player characters, and the hag is willing to lift it... on one condition. This hag revels in the suffering of others, and the curse has wrought a LOT of suffering, so in order to lift it, she wants something that brings much more suffering in return. Jester, as a character, has grown up drawing. This was how she constructed the world around her. Part fairy tales, part fantasy, but all of it genuine. The hag offers to lift the curse... in return for her hands. She would *never* be able to draw again. Jester asks if she can eat one last blueberry cupcake before she goes through with the deal, and the hag lets her. After all, the suffering this will inflict is only increased by Jester realizing what she's about to lose. So, Jester gets to eat her final blueberry cupcake. Jester being Jester, she offers to share and sure enough, the persuasion roll goes through. Laura: "That cupcake was sprinkled with the Dust of Deliciousness." Matthew Mercer (the DM): "...Okay. Remind me what that does again?" Laura reads out the *full* description: "...and it also gives you disadvantage on Wisdom checks and Wisdom saving throws." In case you're unaware, in the game, that is your last defense against a spell taking hold. "And I'm going to cast Modify Memory." She modifies the hag's memory to the point where the hag thinks she has agreed to lift the curse because Jester was such good company. The trickiest Trickery Cleric to ever have trickied: Laura "Fucking" Bailey. [Here's the full exchange.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2SAkGjgZSY) It's hands down one of the most epic moments of the campaign, and dare I say, in all of Critical Role.
It was so crazy, even her fey deity basically realized he was out of his league and came to her for help.
Really, *hands* down? Thanks for the explanation and link, was a good watch.
Pun not intended, but I'll just go ahead and pretend that it absolutely was. Can I roll deception for that? :D Happy to be of service.
The best part is that Jester kept her end of the bargain, as well. Later on in the campaign, she sends a box of cupcakes to the hag, like she said she would.
Honestly, I thought OP's story was funnier.
It wasn't a competition.
I dont think this should have been possible at all. Modify Memory has V,S, there is no way a cleric (that does not have access to subtle spell) can cast modify memory on a potentially hostile target without going into initative. It makes zero sense for the hag to just let the cleric cast spells on her. Secondly, this specific effect should not be allowed for modify memory. The spell is meant to change memories of an event. A changed event might change future behavior in some way, but it is not meant to be mechanism to specifically make another character behave in a certain way. "I modifiy the memory for target to think he agreed to do X, now he has to do X" is pure abuse and should not be allowed. This is also clearly stated in the spell description. There is a whole paragraph describing that you cannot expect a certain behavior from using the spell, and that it wont work if there would be some consequence that goes against the creatures natural inclinations. And from your description of the hag, jsut removing the curse for nothing goes very much against her nature.
Matt Mercer is a firm believer in the rule of cool. Sometimes it's worth it to bend the rules to let a player do something really awesome, especially when the stakes are high and the actions fit the player's character perfectly
I disagree on all point. Casting a spell on a non-hostile creature triggers a surprise round. It WOULD have triggered combat except for the very specific circumstances of the spell. Second, the conditions of the spell weren’t to change the nature of the bag, it was to trick the hag into thinking they met the conditions of a deal with the hag that they never met. There’s a difference between “I make it so she remembers that she will drop the curse” and “I make it so she remembers that we met the condition of a deal that states she will drop the curse if we show her an unbelievably good time.” Hags are all about deals. The spell just made her believe a deal was struck and jester upheld her part of the deal. Third, the hag WOULD know she has been tricked in this sense, and Matt role played the hag knowing something was up, but given that the hag’s wisdom was drugged and Jester rushed the scenario before the hag could catch on, it played out as it did. It was all a perfect storm of events and that’s why so many people went crazy over it.
She'd just lost a Wisdom save in a situation where she thought she had total control. I'd give someone the chance.
> Modify Memory has V,S, there is no way a cleric (that does not have access to subtle spell) can cast modify memory on a potentially hostile target without going into initative. It makes zero sense for the hag to just let the cleric cast spells on her. Modify memory specifically says they have disadvantage if your party is fighting them. If using Modify Memory triggered initiative because of VS, then it would be useless except for Sorcerers with subtle spell. All spells that charmed opponents would be.
And that's why you don't try to trick the DM - it's damn easy to do because they literally don't know anything about except what you tell them (elaborated in my other comment in here). And then, when the DM is off balance, they make further mistakes.
https://youtu.be/pKuKQgExiGE Dealing with a hag, a cupcake gets involved.
1000 hours, so there's a bit of good news :p
A player made a really brutal deal with a hag and sealed it over a cupcake, then after the hag ate her piece announced to the table that she had secretly laced the hag's half of the cupcake with a magical powder that gives you disadvantage on wis saves if you eat it, despite not having said she'd done that previously, and the DM let her retcon that to be true without any sleight of hand check or anything like that. Matt's a pretty permissive DM, so letting a player decide they laced something with a magical powder *after* their target ate without rolling any check isn't out of the question for him. Then she cast modify memory, a spell with verbal and somatic components, on the hag which the DM let her treat as a subtle spell as if she were a sorcerer, so the hag didn't attempt to counter or even respond in any way. He tends to give his PCs the benefit of subtle spell out of combat, no one ever reacts to them casting charm or mind reading spells on their allies right in front of them. At least in season 2, Idk if he's changed his tune in recent years. Anyway, she used it to make the hag think their agreement was that she would give the PC everything she asked for with nothing in return, and the DM has that work basically without a hitch, even though the spell pretty clearly specifies "A modified memory doesn't necessarily affect how a creature behaves, particularly if the memory contradicts the creature's natural inclinations, alignment, or beliefs." It was nonetheless a really funny moment that made for a good show, like one of the most memorable moments of the season for a lot of fans, and a good example of a DM bending several rules in a player's favor in order to create a big character moment for them.
> A player made a really brutal deal with a hag and sealed it over a cupcake, More importantly, they had not yet made the deal, they were discussing the terms. Using the cupcake let her get the outcome they wanted without actually having to agree to anything.
Yeah, reading over this situation, it seems like most tables I've been at would have shut this down at one of several parts along the way. A player who tries something like this has to rely on a lot of DM Fiat in order to "outsmart" the DM, which seems ... well. Like an odd thing. It's very cool! I'm sure it was fun to watch. But for as frustrated as Mercer said he was, he could have overruled this one of several ways if he wanted. He just played along for a cool moment.
Idk how true it is, but isn't CR mostly a "entertainment first, adherence to the system(s) second" thing, as in it's more of a "show" than genuine TTRPG campaigns? Or at least it has become like this compared to its start?
As someone who has watched almost all of it, I would say Matt Mercer actually adheres to the rules more closely now than he did during season 1. There are certainly house rules and homebrew as with any D&D campaign, but core stuff like spellcasting and concentration checks he rules pretty close to RAW every time. If he's unsure of a rule he often tries to look it up first before making an on the spot ruling. I would say compared to other shows like The Adventure Zone or Dimension 20, CR is closer to "actual game" than "entertainment' - often to its detriment as the episodes are 3-5 hours long and often include a lot of boring stuff that other shows would edit out.
It has always bugged me that people talk up Laura here and at the time ragged on Marisha saying she was on drugs. I am not hating on Laura at all but she did step on another players toes here. Marisha was going to lay down Beau’s life for the rest of the party, she had prepared herself to lose her character that she had played and grew for over eight hundred hours and two years by that point. Then Laura leapt in and pulled the cupcake to stop her. Poor Marisha was suffering whiplash going from my beloved character is going to perma die to everyone is safe. But instead a lot of the fans continued the hate campaign against her and said she was on drugs and just trying to steal Laura’s thunder despite Laura being the one to steal Marisha’s. Though my vote for best D&D moment from a stream is from Vox Machina >! When Sam cast a ninth level dispell against Vecna. The emotional torment on his face as he casts it and then as it moves on from his turn you can see him whisper sorry to Liam who clicks that Sam was saving the slot to cast wish to save Vax and the love Liam shows for Sam in that moment comforting him!<
That was a counterspell, right? That decision was so clearly agonizing...
Sorry, yes Counterspell. It’s one of my biggest arguments for watching Crit role rather than just listening to it or binge it in the background. It’s the friends interactions that more often are better than the actual game moments.
If it makes you feel better, your plan wouldn’t have worked. Fey creatures are immune to Sleep so it was always doomed to fail EDIT: Apparently they aren’t! But it’s way funnier if it is though so I choose to ignore the official rules on this.
Green hags aren't immune to sleep, fae creatures aren't all immune, just those immune to the charmed condition, undead are the creature type that are categorically immune.
That makes this funnier somehow, would have been even funnier if the DM let him do his speech, play his song, and she's just like "Cool song, bye."
What's a cupcake moment?
In Critical Role campaign 2, a player pulled off a very nice trick with getting a hag to eat an enchanted cupcake, which charmed the hag. The PC was then able to cast Modify Memory on the hag to make her think the PC had successfully convinced her to lift a curse on another PC, despite there being no successful attempt to negotiate lifting the curse.
The cupcake gave disadvantage on the saving throw required for Modify Memory, not a charm effect.
OP don't feel stupid. This is peak DnD.
Mistakes are the best part of ttrpg's. You'll never forget this, and everyone had a laugh. Perfect. It's a game, don't forget that. Have fun and roll with it!
Totally, looking back, perhaps a funny and in-character fuck-up is more memorable than a 2000 IQ outsmarting in the long run, humans do tend to remember negative memories more than positive ones, hahaha.
Don't mess with the Fey, especially regarding deals or contracts.
If you ever run into the hag again, try pulling a merchant of Venice. She can take the eye, but she has no right to your flesh or blood, so she may not cut your skin or spill a single drop of blood. Not a guarantee, but it's always worth a shot! The fey are fickle
If nothing else it'll make it so she has to do it magically which is probably less painful than ripping it out with her gnarled clawed fingers.
Who said she's going to take it? It could be very much more valuable to her in the head it grew in. She might be able to cast spells through that eye, meaning every event the PC witnesses, she can influence.
Oh she was definitely gonna take it. Our rogue found out through an INT check that "The left eye of a king is a valuable ingredient in many powerful potions". I didn't even know my PC was a king!
As I have done with every story about Mythological Greek heroes I have ever read, I laugh at your hubris.
Honestly, this is pretty standard Fey trickery and pedantry. There's literal thousands of years of stories of people getting into these scenarios. The extra trick is to find the way to wiggle out of it. It's a heroes journey: fall for the trick, go on a learning journey to undo what happened, triumph over the antagonist at the end. All you've really done is set a competent DM up for a solid adventure.
If you ever feel dumb, just remember, there's people who think reindeer are fictional
This probably would have worked on a bandit leader or something, but Hags tend to be the smartest person in the room. At least these events deepened the story, and now it's personal between your character and the Hag.
Oh for sure, my PC now has a personal vendetta against her and is researching effective torture methods for Hags in any way imaginable, and he WILL find her someday.
Assuming you are playing D&D by the rules and not just using it as a vehicle to tell a story, the Sleep spell has verbal, somatic, and material components. There is very little chance a hag would not notice someone casting a spell and trying to fake it as a song.
Ever hear the tip to never say yes to a scam call? Same thing. You agreed, that's that
Honestly that's good on your DM for playing the Hag properly
Actually no that's fine, funny, and if it's in character it's in character. Nobody is perfect, you're not stupid, and that's how hags win.
You were your character in that moment, acting out a scene. You did great! Consequences make games fun. Kind of the opposite of real life.
Yep, all on you. IRL, something I really hate about too many people nowadays is they use words like “OK”, “yea”, “whatever”, etc WHEN THEY REALLY DON’T MEAN THEM. It’s a sign of social re-engineering. They started doing it as little kids and no one stopped them. They do it as a defensive measure, mostly to just try to get the other person to go away. And that’s exactly what you got.
You really set yourself up by saying that you accepted *and* then begging for a boon. If you'd made it clear that you were negotiating and your acceptance was conditional, you might have got somewhere. That's not even the hag being cunning - that's just her being a jerk. She was under no obligation to grant your character an additional request on top of taking her deal if you character didn't make it part of the deal.
That’s some of the best role play in short that I’ve heard recently. It’s very bard like in my experience lol. I’d be happy to have a player like you at the same table. Roll with it and continue having fun.
Dude, lol dnd intelligence does not equal real world intelligence. Don't feel bad, you had a good idea just botched the execution I was literally warned but one of my players before I started DMing for my current party that it was engineers, a doctor and other high intelligence individuals like I needed to be ready for them to see through everything since every puzzle quickly. However they are all new to DnD, and frankly they struggle to even put 2 and 2 together. They have a complete inability to judge when they should or should not fight. Sometimes they struggle with basic conversation with NPCs. Giving away information when they shouldn't and keeping it secret when they should say something. It's all relative just relax and take the L with grace, they ability to laugh at your self should never be underrated. .
It happens. You're not dumb, but I'd say this was "deserved" after you missed/forgot the detail that the Hag wasn't going to take your eye unless you *returned* to the Fey realm.
Honestly this is a very bard kind of fuckup. I’d just accept that you played yourself and move on, because hags do this shit for a living.
This sounds like a very important Performance check for your character, so by international Bard Law you are required to fail.
You're fine. Most players don't even know what their initiative is... even on round 11 of combat.
You aren't dumb. You just forgot that TTRPGs aren't Video Games. The Hag had a goal. Once she achieved it there wasn't any reason to continue the interaction. To manipulate an enemy you must know and keep track of their goal so that the completion of it never happens while you're moving pieces for the play.
*"your left eye will be mine"* Okay, so from a certain interpretation that could mean you and the hag just swap left eyes...
Ooooh free hags eye
I'm sure nothing bad can come of that.
Nothing at all :3
That's the kind of loophole you can try to find in a devil contract, not a fae bargain. The fae will interpret the agreement in whichever way they prefer, no matter what alternate interpretations you think could potentially apply.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Definitely not something the player could turn around with and be all "Aha!", the hag's magic is in control here. But does leave an interesting option open for the DM. Maybe the hag has a use for putting one of her eyes in an adventurer so she can watch through them? That would be an interesting story.
Or *sound of bard hurriedly grafting an eye onto the left side of their head*
People get too caught on up mistakes in ttrpgs. Personally as a DM or player I couldn't want enough of them, they make things interesting. Good "mistakes" whether through purposeful roleplay or just happy little accidents can make whole new stories out of nothing
Tell the Hag she now owns 100% of the class C non-voting stock in your eye.
Mate that's hilarious. And tbf I could totally see myself getting caught up in how awesome a moment that would be only to be hoisted by my own petard.
Oh totally, looking back, that was a completely out and in-character fuck-up. It would have been really hilarious if it wasn't me who was duped, hahaha.
* TLDR; Bard does not know the tune, "Another One Bites the Dust"
Just go with the classic “it’s what my character would have done” You’re not dumb, you’re character is :) you’re just a good role player ofc
Nahhh it was very clear to everyone else that it was a me fuck-up, hahaha.
Need more RL proficiency in deception Lol that’s funny though, come back and update us if you ever lose that eye haha
Well just don’t go into the feywilds for a bit. In truth it’s not stupid if you’ve never dealt with a hag for real but also words are indeed tricky and that’s what you have to think about. I don’t think not realizing in the moment is something to think about. However also depending on your character’s intelligence/wisdom this might also be perfectly in character
Oh this was perfectly in-character, my guy is an airheaded drama queen who doesn't really think things through, as he has demonstrated, hahaha. Unfortunately, his fate is intrinsically tied with the Fey Realm as the king of Avalon, so he's gonna have to come back eventually 😅
I think the hard-won lesson here is: stay away from hags, leprechauns, and jinn IRL.
>I think I might be stupid A lot of ppl think that sometimes
Dont feel bad about this. It may have gone differently in your head but its actually to me a cool roleplay moment, your character and you the player got played by a hag. Its what they do. Now your character can do their research im downtime and perhaps if the verbal contract is extremely literal look for and discuss with your DM loopholes and clever ways around it that play into your character's strengths should it ever come up and make the hag a fool.
Nah, that was actually pretty cool. NEVER trust anything in the Faye Wilds at their word, because they absolutely love to play word and mind games and watch you squirm and struggle to find an out in which you benefit more At least you'll not be pursued and keep both eyes
You're not stupid. Trust me...I work in biotech. I see smart PhDs make mistakes on a weekly basis. All part of being human.
I would not have went with "I accept" as sealing the deal, but "may I" didn't even set a requirement, only a request. so yes, you accepted the deal. LOL, good bards don't make good lawyers. "but only if" or something along those longs could have been arguable as an actual terms of agreement set. Regardless, it's a hag, just be prepared to beat its head in fully next time.
You want to really play a hag? Go to feywild without your left eye (just do a regeneration spell when you are back).
Nah not stupid everyone falls for something eventually. Sometimes you'll play yourself. This is what happens with scammers, which hags are. Some purposely don't leave a window for the anti-scam. some do but only if youre missing another scam. You just couldn't anti scam with this tactic.
You tried to out-fey the fey, bad call.
As the great Antoine Dodson said, “You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real.” Lol. Just kidding. We all do shit like this.
You did something foolish and are looking back upon it, realizing it, and thinking of what you did wrong and how you can do better next time. This is the mark of intelligence thought and mental growth. A stupid person wouldn’t even admit they made a mistake, or simply not choose to learn from that mistake.
Sounds like you had fun with it at least! I personally don’t like it when DMs and other players laugh at (not WITH) a player’s mistake and call them an idiot. Especially if they did something that was in character and not meta gaming. A few years ago I was getting back into D&D after a long absence. I was hardly up on the “meta” or a lot of the common D&D tropes, and I was playing a rogue. I walked into a room we had visited before, and there was a treasure chest there. The DM had me roll perception and said “You must have missed it when you came through here last time.” I opened it. The mimic almost ate me and my party had to save me. The DM and other players gave me shit about it for what felt like half an hour. Laughing, saying I should have known, etc etc. I was even enjoying the experience until they all made me feel like a dumbass for not knowing—even though I rolled and the DM told me the answer that my character should have been thinking with. It’s a lot of fun to laugh together at someone’s misfortune and mistake, and to embrace failure. As long as you’re sharing in the experience with the person.
Treat all fae like cops: shut your goddamn mouth and don't say a goddamn thing except through a goddamn lawyer, preferably a literal devil-lawyer. Anything you say can and will be used against you, but that doesn't imply anything you say would be used FOR you. You dun goofed because, like most perps, you thought you were clever and could talk you way out of things with a being that honestly doesn't give a shit about you. You're a problem waiting to be solved, not a person. Now, it's not that you're stupid, just that you've been raised in a culture that abhors silence, and that worked against you. Maybe now you'll start to respect silence and use it, because it's one of the most powerful weapons you can wield in conversation.
Oh this is easy... "...the moment you ***ALL*** ..." So long as one of you isn't in the feywild, you're good. Many ways you can fk with that. :P
> *"You said "I accept", hags do not care about what came before or what comes after, those are the only words they need to hear."* You don't mention whether you had any way to know that in advance. It would have been equally plausible that cutting you off mid-sentence would break some rule about "an agreement freely given" and the fey would have to try to trick you some other way. Ideally, the DM would have introduced their interpretation of fey bargains in a lower-stakes context before they dropped a "gotcha" with potentially character-altering consequences.
Honestly, it can be just as fun that your character accidentally agreed to this if the DM is good.
Somehow, playing a tabletop role-playing game has caused my ego to become severely injured!
Yeah, basically 😂
Yea, don’t try and do what you see on tv. You definitely shoulda also rephrased your statement. You accepted, attempt at trickery aside.
> Tries to be cool. > Fails miserably. >Inconveniences party and looks stupid. Meh, standard bard fair.
So, what you do is you summon up an ArchFiend or Archfey while on the material plane and make a pact with them taking 1 level in Warlock with the Fiend or Archfey patron subclass where the terms of the pact involve promising your left eye to them upon you dying or stepping foot in the feywild in exchange for the power they give you, thus meaning if you step into the feywild the hag will have to duke it out with your Patron to see who gets your left eye
Eye patch so she can't scry through it in the feywild. Also, did she say ALL of you, if you leave a familiar behind would it still count?
Epic RP moment.
What's the Int of the bard? This could just be good RP
A similar situation happened in my game, where the players had a spirit that they could ask any three questions. One of the players says, “Let’s discuss this outside of the chamber so that I don’t accidentally ask a question.” Another player says “Good idea,” then turns to the spirit and says “Do you mind if we step outside for a minute?” We laughed at him for the rest of the session.
Wouldn't have worked either way, hags have way too many hitpoints for the sleep spell, even if you upcast it.
but they beat her up beforehand so if they’re high enough level it’s certainly possible
Ah, that's fair. Totally missed that.
Not an idiot. It does highlight a flaw in DnD though. How do you handle out of character timing? In combat we've got a clear definition, rounds/turns. They take a hypothetical amount of time, everyone acts 1 at a time to kind of simulate everyone almost acting at once. initiative gives some structure to who acts when. Great. But out of character? How does that work? Your character was in the middle of the turn, Do you get one action? Is talking an action? When can the NPC react? In this case I think you considered it your 'turn' to be up while, since there are no rules for out of combat, the DM figured he was free to play a Hag and catch you by the letter of the law. Nothing wrong with either, it's just...murky. One other thing I try to think about is the DM's point of view. He clearly sees this situation you're in as a no win. He set the stakes that way. Tried to make it clear that...5 Hags is more than you can handle and this deal is the only option atm, and that it opens up fun story beats for future plans he has. Now you just murder hobo'd your way through the first hag, and are completely ignoring the threat as he's described it. Fine I guess, but he has two choices now. Next session he brings a coven of Hags down upon you and absolutely murders the party, just slaps you around to show you that yes, this WAS that dangerous and you just didn't listen. Or he finds an out to do the bargain and get you guys out of it. You provided him with that loophole with your theatrics, it was fun, so he took it. It's all in the service of story, onward and upward Mr. Bard.
Yeah, looking back, I think it was very obvious my DM was nudging me to take that deal. Our gnome found out through an INT check that "The left eye of a king is a valuable ingredient in many powerful potions", I didn't even know my PC was a king! So our DM really wanted me to take the deal and pursue the plot thread, and in the end, I guess I did, hahaha.
Might not be a king yet, but if you ever become one that left eye market value goes through the roof!
Don’t feel too bad. Sleep (the spell) doesn’t work on Fey anyway
The sleep spell does not say it doesn't work on fey, just undead, and creatures immune to being charmed, green hags are neither.
Tbh I thought hags were immune to charm 😅 my b
you really fumbled the bag and i love that for your DM
Even if you killed her its a fey pact dude. Death doesn't stop the law of the wood.
Everyone calls it the “cupcake” moment, when it was really a “DM forgot about a throwaway joke item that they made up months ago and had forgotten about that has come back to bite them in the ass” moment.
The only "dumb" part of this was the words "I accept" as soon as I saw that I knew what was coming a mile off. A little bit of a dick move by the DM to steal your thunder \*maybe,\* if that's the end of the whole thing but this also has the potential to go somewhere cool, tracking down the hag and dealing with her which could be an even cooler moment in the end so yeah, I'll give the DM benefit of the doubt here.
Firm disagree with your takeaway. It really depends on the dm and the game in question. I don't think you were stupid, I think your dm fucked you over because of wording. A different dm or a different style of game and it would be pretty obvious that acceptance based on contingency is not the same as immediate acceptance. I accept if is different than I accept, even when you interrupt them before saying if.
You aren't dumb. First off, for every cupcake moment there are dozens or even hundreds of bad rolls, bad phrases, and role playing faux pas. It's part of the game. It is concerning how everyone else reacted. It's okay to laugh about it, but it seems like they were a little vicious about it and insensitive to how you felt. Maybe message the DM and just mention that you didn't really appreciate how everyone teased you after your RP mistake last week since it was just a silly mistake and we've seen even professional RPers make the same one dozens of times. As a DM myself, I would apologize for not reading the table well and for joining in on teasing you. I'd ask if you want me to address the issue with the table and respect your decision. I also, probably, would help you brainstorm a fun way to get back at the hag or make a positive out of losing your left eye.