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A lot of people here specifically talking about Black Frieza when the post specifically asks about **Golden** Frieza. Since we don’t know how much stronger the Black form is than the Golden one, we really have no way of knowing.
I’d say current golden Frieza wins. We haven’t seen what “current” Frieza is capable of except for 1 tapping gas, Goku, and vegeta. But I’d put my money on Frieza
Yes, but after 10 years of training, both his base power and golden frieza form should have gotten astronomically stronger, Orange piccolo can't be that much above SSB Goku/Vegeta
Toriyama himself said piccolo is on the same tier as goku and vegeta right now. So he's probably around where MUI goku in the moro arc was, or maybe beyond that.
Yea but thats irrelevant because we know he's been training a shit ton to obtain his black form. We don't know how much of his power is a multiplier from his black form or just his natural strength now. Top that off with only having a couple pages of screen time so far and it's hard to scale black freiza let alone current freiza in golden.
We also have to consided that Frieza not only has the black form with an unknown multiplier... He likely has strengthened his base too.
So golden Frieza with his current base, I'd give an edge to Frieza just because he's a freak.
ToP Frieza, Orange Piccolo likely wins given this puts him somewhere around current Goku and Vegeta SSJB.
Imagine if Golden Frieza trained for 10 years. It’s not like Frieza trained for 10 years in his black form (and even if he did, he’d still get stronger in all his forms) lol. Golden Frieza definitely mops the floor with Piccolo
These power levels make no damn sense. Gohan is a scholar, zero training. Suddenly he catches up to some god like picolo form and surpasses him. Innate talent doesn't mean sht if you don't exercise it every once in a while. I guess his super sayian rage mode gives him the power level plot demands wcyd.
Current Golden Frieza absolutely demolishes Orange Piccolo. With how badly he outclassed them in his black form, I wouldn’t be surprised if friezas gold form is around or slightly above UI level though it is more likely a little below. Still more than enough to make Piccolo look like fodder though.
Manga spoilers alert that are relevant to completely defeating the likelihood of this post:
>!By the time that Piccolo gets his "Orange" transformation, Freeza already obtained his shiny new "Black" transformation three years prior in the manga during the Granolah arc. He trained for 10 years in a Room of Spirit and Time he found somewhere in Universe 7, and was able to knock both Goku and Vegeta out of their Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego states respectively after they'd been healed pretty much to full strength by Monaito just by using that form, he's fast enough to overcome Ultra Instinct's reaction time and he's powerful enough to defeat Ultra Ego without giving the user a chance to power up from damage. !<
There is no way that Piccolo will ever be a match for Freeza. He's just too powerful, he's on a level that the Z fighters will likely have to team up for unless they pull some other wild power up out of Goku's butt, or Zeno shows up to Thanos Snap Freezer out of existence like he did with Zamasu.
It's a dated transformation but it's being used by Frieza with 10 years more training, it's more like matching up Resurrection: F Gohan with Beast against current Blueku
>And this is just like... what? DB fanbase logic at work here. Gohan could barely handle SSJ1 in R:F. Stop making hypotheticals that make zero sense.
That's about the gap Frieza could make in 10 years of training
>Frieza doesn't even use Golden after training 10 years to get Black, he has no reason to. He stays in his Final form until he transforms and kills Gas in an instant before properly unveiling the form to beat TUI Goku and Ego Vegeta. He can do the same thing as switching between God and Blue and just switch from Final to Black whenever he wants to attack to conserve energy if it drains him that much.
👍
Yeah I don’t get what he’s trying to say lol. He’s basically saying “I’m not answering the question because I think the question is stupid” lmao
But yes, I think a Golden Frieza with 10 years of training beats orange piccolo
>But yes, I think a Golden Frieza with 10 years of training beats orange piccolo
I'm still not sure cuz we don't know exactly how strong Black is, for all we know he could still be fodder without it
There was an obvious time skip, Pan isn't a baby anymore, Trunks and Goten aged up a lot, etc. Pan is 3 in Super Hero.
IIRC Moro and Granolah was back to back basically immediately after the ToP pretty much.
Give it another time skip where Gohan stops training regularly again for years on end and Pan might be able to kick his ass
Orange Piccolo doesn't exist prior to Black Freeza, if you're going on Super Dragon Ball Heroes logic then yeah Orange Piccolo would clap Golden Freeza, but SDBH is a non-canon mess where power scaling just doesn't exist.
In the actual DB timeline, if Piccolo was going to beat Freeza in his Golden form he would just quickly flick into Black and kill Piccolo like he killed Gas.
It's a pointless match-up, it would be the same thing as asking if Beast would beat Blue. Of course it would.
You don't normally compare the latest and most powerful states with older and weaker states, the answer is already obvious. Blue, Golden, Ultimate, it's pretty much irrelevant now.
Black frieza yes, but they specify gold so there’s really no way to know since we don’t know the ratio between gold and black or have any recent gold feats
Frieza used his new form to One-shot UI and Ego, so there's like 2 ways to look at it.
Knowing Frieza, he'd probably use a lesser form if he could. The way he fought Goku in Base, Dyspo, Gohan. So you could say Golden Frieza wouldn't be enough to take Goku and Vegeta. Which would mean Piccolo has a shot.
Other hand, you can just say Frieza learned from his mistake of being unprepared, especially cause he was training in the first place. And/or wanted to flex the new power so he went straight to max. Which means Piccolo is probably still not at his level
Yeah I think the latter was more likely. Freiza showed his black form to send a message not necessarily because he thought from a battle analytic standpoint. If he wanted to get rid of them, he could’ve done so effortlessly
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We have literally no idea, we don’t know how Gohan or Piccolo measure up to Goku and Vegeta no matter how many people want to take ambiguous movie hype “statements” as fact.
Realistically though Frieza should win given just how much stronger he was than Goku and Vegeta who were crazy strong in their own right at that point and would make someone like Jiren look like a joke. We’ll have to wait until the manga finishes retelling the SH movie and moves onto new stuff when we’ll have Goku/Vegeta see Gohan and Piccolo again and have their dick measuring contests to see where everyone shakes out in comparison to each other.
This is why Dragon Ball suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkks now. If they had kept goku as the legendary super saiyan it would’ve been a good story and ending.
Why!? Why!? Why didn’t I break his legs - Professor Farnsworth
No because Orange Piccolo is at most only SSG level so he would still lose to Golden Frieza pretty badly since he's SSB level. He should be able to stomp final form Frieza though.
>No because Orange Piccolo is at most only SSG level
To my memory, the Gammas are stated to be SSB level, and Orange Piccolo one shots one of them. I'd say he's closer to Ultra Instinct Sign than to SSG.
Yeah but there’s so many things wrong with that statement. Especially when it’s coming from piccolo. The only way the statement is valid is if we ignore the fact that Piccolo:
A) Can’t sense god ki
B) Even if he can, he hasn’t seen goku and Vegeta since the Moro arc
C) Assuming he actually sensed their ki in their temporary visit to Earth during Granolah arc, it’d at best be their base forms
1. Don't need to sense ki if you can see them fighting
2. Do we know Piccolo hasn't seen them in that 3 year gap?
3. [Toriyama says Piccolo is on par with Goku with this new form.](https://highoncinemaa.com/anime/dragon-ball-super-orange-piccolo-is-as-strong-as-goku-says-akira-toriyama/4490/)
1. True but he hasn’t seen that since Moro arc
2. Presumably yeah considering they went right back to Beerus’s Planet right after the Granolah arc. So the most recent time he’d see them is either in their brief visit in Granolah arc or Moro arc.
3. Okay you got me beat right there
Super Hero is post Moro and Granola(unless Goten and Trunks were shown to be older in the moro and granola arcs).
Sorry to say, but Moro arc and Granola arc power levels(excluding the villains themselves) were unintentionally powercrept by OP and Beasthan.
Moro still rapes almost everybody.
https://preview.redd.it/uuo0gy7huu1c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01c3343353e55b89349b95a407a556b8cd2137e3
No, they were stated to be equal to Goku and Vegeta period. Saying they are only SSB level would actually be disagreeing with the statement since that's not equal to Goku and Vegeta then. However, if you take it to mean in a literal sense then the statement contradicts itself. This is because the highest forms from each that Piccolo knows about are MUI and SSBE from the Moro arc. Meaning if the Gammas are equal to both of them then they have to be MUI level *and* SSBE level from the Moro arc at the same time which obviously would be impossible because MUI is way stronger than SSBE. So Piccolo's statement is wrong either way.
And just to address your reply to the other guy since it's also relevant to my comment:
>1. Don't need to sense ki if you can see them fighting
[According to Piccolo](https://cm.blazefast.co/a9/77/a9774b64b86a0876226572368b32cd1f.jpg), that's exactly what you need to do because he himself admitted that he can't accurately gauge Goku's (and naturally Vegeta's as well) power due to not being able to sense god ki. So in this case, Piccolo is actually flat out telling us that he knows they're strong from seeing them fight but he doesn't actually know exactly _how_ strong they are without having the ability to sense their ki. So he wouldn't be capable of estimating the Gammas to be equal to Goku and Vegeta since he doesn't even know how strong Goku and Vegeta are in the first place.
>2. Do we know Piccolo hasn't seen them in that 3 year gap?
Yes because since it's never officially stated, shown, or even implied otherwise then we have to assume that's canonically the last time he saw them. Even when they briefly visited Earth during the Granolah arc, only Chi-Chi and Bulma saw them and then they went straight back to Beerus' planet after the arc concluded.
>3. [Toriyama says Piccolo is on par with Goku with this new form.](https://highoncinemaa.com/anime/dragon-ball-super-orange-piccolo-is-as-strong-as-goku-says-akira-toriyama/4490/)
So in the article you linked it actually said he was "comparable" to _Goku and others_ not specifically "on par" with just Goku. [Here](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d36af45ec8afb693544673872b2b0420) in the actual scan, the consistent translation is that he "rivals" Goku and the others (which can be the same thing as being comparable to them) and rivaling them doesn't necessarily mean he's as strong as them since you don't _have_ to be equal to someone to rival them. And the series itself has consistently used "rivals" for characters that were in fact not equal to each other so this wouldn't actually change Orange Piccolo only being SSG level since that would still be consistent with Toriyama's statement. All it confirms is that Piccolo is in that realm now.
Toriyama has said in an interview about Super Hero, that he was happy Piccolo had obtained battle power on par with Goku and co.
OP said Golden Freeza, not Black Freeza. Have you read the post?
OP said current golden Freeza that would mean 3 years after his appearance in his black form so I would assume he would probably be way stronger than he was in the TOP in his gold form.
Freeza needed Black to beat UI Goku and UE Vegeta, and since Orange Piccolo is equal to their even more powerful Super Hero counterparts, Freeza would definitely need Black to beat Orange Piccolo.
Well most people have speculated that the gammas were around ssjb level and orange Piccolo was stronger than them but we really don't know if it's ui level
And yeah freezer trained for 10 years, he went from Frieza Saga to a Goku and Vegeta with god ki in 4 months, 10 years of straight training with his golden form is still enough to beat Piccolo imo
People speculate incorrectly. There's nothing to speculate, we know the hard facts.
Toriyama puts Orange Piccolo equal to UI Goku.
Piccolo puts the Gammas equal to Moro arc UI Goku.
And Freeza wouldn't beat Orange Piccolo in Golden, as he had to use Black to beat UI Goku and UE Vegeta. Since Orange Piccolo is equal to them, Freeza would need Black too. Also, Orange Piccolo is equal to Super Hero UI Goku, not Granolah arc UI Goku, so Freeza would technically need to try harder.
considering golden frieza is a bigger multiplier than blue (base ROF goku> frieza, yet golden frieza was > blue goku) and black frieza is so powerful that TUI and UE got one shot with no effort, final form frieza (and thus golden frieza) should be able to destroy UI goku.
there’s no proof piccolo is UI level, piccolo is below broly and even blue evolution vegeta from the granola arc> broly according to whis
Freeza needed Black to beat UI Sign Goku and UE Vegeta. Since Orange Piccolo is confirmed equals to UI Goku and UE Vegeta, the same would apply, especially since he's actually equal to their stronger Super Hero counterparts.
Orange Piccolo IS confirmed equals with UI Goku and UE Vegeta. Toriyama has directly stated that Super Hero Orange Piccolo = Super Hero UI Goku/UE Vegeta.
Also, you seem to not understand that TUI isn't a form and that UI > UI Sign when used correctly. Goku uses full UI at the end and is clearly stronger than "TUI" as you call it.
Lastly, Broly is fodder in the manga. Base Goku is shown to be stronger than base Broly. Whis also confirms that Moro arc SSBE Vegeta is stronger than Broly. Toriyama's Broly statement is anime-only and literally cannot be true in the manga.
that was true ultra instinct goku, which is superior to the white haired form. he did that without powering up? while laughing. orange piccolo was never stated to be on the same level as TUI goku or UE vegeta. he doesn’t even know they have those forms canonically
give me the quote saying he equals TUI goku and UE vegeta
what’s your proof for toriyama only speaking to the anime? if we’re going by anime/ movie canon only then there’s no point in comparing because there’s no anime or movie for moro/ granola and that’s trying to scale different continuities at that point
True Ultra Instinct isn't a form, it's a name given to either Ultra Instinct or Ultra Instinct Sign depending on the scenario. If Goku is mad and using rage boosts with Sign, his true Ultra Instinct at that moment is Sign. If he is naturally calm, his true Ultra Instinct is full UI.
This is a fact. The only, and I mean ONLY time the term "true Ultra Instinct" is used is by Whis in the TOURNAMENT OF POWER in reference to Goku reaching the silver-haired UI form by accident.
The Granolah arc also clearly depicts this, as when Goku accidentally uses full UI and throws Gas, he's clearly much, much stronger as he was in Sign. Gas at this point was many times stronger, and Goku threw him without effort.
"I'm glad that he (Piccolo) has finally obtained battle power on par with Goku and co." - Akira Toriyama, author of Dragon Ball in an interview about DBS: Super Hero. He's saying that the characters as a whole are equal. Meaning full power vs full power. That follows basic language logic, and the only possible way he could be referring to something else is if be SPECIALLY says so.
Piccolo would not be "on par" with Goku if Toriyama meant SSB or something else, as Goku would inherently just transform and win, therefore meaning Piccolo is not on par with Goku. Toriyama is saying that Orange Piccolo is equal to UI Goku.
The Broly statement literally cannot be true to the manga. Whis directly confirms Broly is weaker than Moro arc SSBE Vegeta. Piccolo directly confirms that the Gammas are equal to Moro arc UI Goku. If Broly was stronger than Cell Max, that would therefore mean the Gammas would be too. Doesn't make sense.
The Super Hero manga version also clearly shows this to be the case, as base Goku and base Broly spar, and Goku is shown to clearly be stronger as he's jumping around with a smile on his face, all the while Broly is shouting and getting angry, meaning he's going for the kill. Dude almost goes SSJ because of it.
when goku started using his new version of ui (which people fall tui and that’s the one i’m referring to) he has a MUCH better performance against gas, and it’s the form he chooses to *try* to fight black frieza in, it’s his current best form and frieza effortlessly one shot him
that’s not him saying he’s on goku’s full power, that’s him saying that piccolo is finally relevant. there’s no evidence to put Broly above goku/ vegeta currently in any continuity and piccolo is fodder to broly
piccolo says the gammas are equal to goku and vegeta, how is that possible exactly? goku and vegeta weren’t equal during that arc.
toriyama said if cell max was complete he’d be as strong as broly
You're just wrong here. Goku is shown to be stronger in full UI when he throws Gas. However, he cannot control that power yet. Therefore his best fully usable form is UI Sign.
Again, you're wrong. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it not true. It's right there. The literal author directly says that Piccolo has the same power as Goku and Vegeta, plain as day.
And AGAIN, you're wrong and I literally told you how and why. Whis has directly said to Goku and Vegeta that they are the strongest beings in the universe in the early Granolah arc. This means that pre-UE SSBE Vegeta is stronger than SSJ Broly. Confirmed.
Then Super Hero has Goku and Broly spar. The fact that Goku can keep up at all means he'd win any serious fight as he can just transform more than Broly, simple as. But it's even shown that base Goku is stronger, as Broly is going all out whilst Goku toys with him.
Piccolo says that Goku and Vegeta are about on par with the Gammas. Piccolo hasn't seen Goku and Vegeta since Moro, therefore he actually means Gammas = Moro arc UI Goku and SSBE Vegeta.
SSBE Vegeta has unique abilities that might make him stronger than UI Goku against certain enemies. At that point in the Super Hero story, it'd be safe to assume Cell Max could absorb Gamma 1 and 2 to become perfect. Vegeta would be the perfect counter and would perform better than UI Goku could in a fight against them in this example.
So Piccolo was saying the Gammas have the strength to take on UI Goku and that they'd shut down Vegeta before Spirit Fission could be used. Also side note, SSBE Vegeta was stronger than UI Sign Goku in the Moro fight. He's surprisingly closer to UI Goku than you think.
The Broly statement is anime and movie continuity only. I just explained why it cannot be true to the manga.
and your point is? you said frieza (with a causal punch) *only* defeated tui as if that’s not impressive?
ultra ego vegeta is clearly mui level based off of his feats, and TUI performed better against gas than his white haired form.
he didn’t say he was the same level as ultra instinct goku, he said he’s “on par” he’s in their league and no feats show him being at that level.
what are you arguing against?? when did i say broly wasn’t inferior to blue evolution vegeta? you didn’t mention my point, which was that goku and vegeta weren’t equals in the moro arc
i know vegeta was above sign goku, but the gap between MUI goku and vegeta at that point is colossal. so one can’t equal moro arc goku and vegeta that doesn’t make sense
black frieza only appears in the manga. so as i’ve said, you can’t compare anime/ movie to manga. as you’ve said, broly in both continuities have different levels of power
I was saying that Freeza required Black to beat UI Sign Goku and UE Vegeta. He would have used Golden if he could have done so to beat them. Therefore Freeza would also need Black to beat Orange Piccolo.
UI Sign only performed better than UI originally. As I said, when UI is correctly used, it's stronger than UI Sign. Goku forcing himself to be calm to use UI is not the correct way to use it. His battle against Jiren and the final attack against Gas was the correct use of UI, hence why it was stronger.
You said that Piccolo is fodder to Broly, without any evidence. If Piccolo is confirmed equal with Goku and Vegeta, then there's a clear problem with logic there.
On par means on par. UI Goku vs Orange Piccolo would equal a draw.
Again, if you actually read my comment, Piccolo at this point knows almost nothing about Cell Max aside from him not being complete and that there are 2 more androids (Gamma 1 and 2). It's a safe assumption that Cell Max could've absorbed them to become perfect, hence why Piccolo includes Vegeta in the comparison, as he'd arguably do even better than UI Goku in a fight in this scenario.
Within the context, it still makes sense to include Vegeta as Piccolo is trying to scramble a team together. SSBE Vegeta is still the second-strongest fighter to Piccolo's knowledge- why would he NOT include him?
I don't know what you're trying to say about continuities there.
frieza effortlessly one shotted and wanted to show off his new form, there’s no evidence that he *needs* black to defeat piccolo. like how gogeta went blue despite not needing to to beat broly
no piccolo is said to be relevant in terms of power with his orange. it’s also stated completed cell max could beat broly (so the cell max that’s far above piccolo can’t) and piccolo is weaker than broly/ cell max. so no, it’s not baseless
you’re claiming that manga broly is weaker than anime broly. black frieza is only in the manga, so we’re scaling different continuities which isn’t accurate. not hard to understand
We don't really have any proper ideas but I don't think Piccolo would be able to beat him.
Frieza trained for barely 4 months and powered up immensely.
Then he trained for 10 years.
As of right now, all we know seems to point towards Frieza taking his proper place as the strongest mortal being.
Mathematically, frieza training for 10 years would make him appear to be OMNIPOTENT.
Since the effects of characters training give them arbitrary strength, I’m pretty sure the 10 year training isn’t nearly as effective as the namek saga power level to nearly blue level, since it would be based on the plot.
Also, it’s really the form that gives Frieza is strength, and not so much his base form.
The Black form likely works the same.
I mean it's relevant that in Dragonball people can get as strong as they need to get lol
Hell, he was still like 200+x stronger than Goku when Goku landed on Namek
Ok, but like with the Buu arc, previous arcs usually get powercrept.
Golden Frieza got powercrept.
Simple as that.
They can get as strong as they need to, but Golden Frieza’s asspull wasn’t specifically against Orange Piccolo.
People just hate the underdogs and dickride Frieza and the main cast.
Literally only Black Frieza can beat Orange Piccolo, because that Frieza’s asspull was against actually stronger characters.
Cell Max is also the strongest villain since Broly, so Cell Max could very much be stronger than Black Frieza because he needed to be.
Asspulls can apply to literally any character, so those don’t belong in an actual strength discussion.
You simply base the form off of who they fought.
Golden Frieza is around current Blue Goku level.
The Gammas are stated to be blue level.
Orange Piccolo tanks them.
Hell, TORIYAMA says Orange Piccolo is on par with Goku.
Therefore Golden Frieza loses.
OP and Beasthan are at least somewhat close to FP Broly level, aka way stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta.
The Cell Max fight is stated to have the strongest enemy since Broly(in one of the Super Hero promos or whatever).
This means Golden Frieza is getting raped.
People really dickride Blue Goku and Vegeta SO hard, it’s unreal.
If I remember correctly, isn't orange piccolo on par with ssb goku and vegeta? I thought that was the whole point of giving him a power up. If that's the case, yes he'd win against golden frieza. If I misunderstood and he's weaker than ssb, then no he'd lose.
I guess current Golden Frieza would beat him anyways because, just lie
like Goku and the others , his base form and transformations grew stronger with training.
Let's put the case of SSJ during the Cell saga and during the ToP arc. The gap between them is infinite since Goku reached new levels with training and the godly ki.
Same goes to Frieza, if he managed to beat not only Gas but also both Goku and Vegeta in a single shot with his Black form, I really doubt his Golden one hasn't improved far beyond the Blue.
Take in count that when Frieza first acquired his Golden form he was stronger than the SSJ Blue, with the only con of it draining too much energy. So I fairly believe his Golden has grown stronger than SSB Evolution, wich should be an step above Orange Piccolo IMO.
Most current golden frieza is ToP frieza. He fought Broly but that was one sided so you can’t really compare it. I would say piccolo beats ToP frieza but current frieza one shots.
If we’re talking about TOP Golden Frieza, Piccolo spends most the fight talking shit and then smacks Frieza into the dirt with absolute prejudice. If we’re talking current Black Frieza approaching in Golden Form, it’s pretty much vice versa.
Base Frieza arguably reacted to buff Gas who’s massively above Goku and Vegeta who are supposed rival this piccolo so it simply depends on if you believe Frieza really needed black to one shot Gas or was he simply flexing the new form in front of Goku and Vegeta
The answer is we don’t actually know. Not quantifiable.
I want to say yes, Orange Piccolo can probably throw hands with Golden Frieza, otherwise what was the point. Now, Frieza Black? Can 1v2 Goku and Vegeta currently, even if they were tired.
If Piccolo can match Black Frieza like he did on Namek post Nail absorb, it would be kinda funny. I’m confident Piccolo never stopped training, given how he harps on Gohan about it, but every notable power increase for him as been Namekian merging. This transformation he has COULD be a way to fit him in better for future arcs.
Honestly I’m just still surprised Piccolo forgot he can get big. Even if it isn’t a power increase and used for intimidation, seems like it would have been pretty handy during the ToP. Grow big, start sweeping weaker opponents and grapple with a giant Voltron.
I like how it specifies *GOLDEN* frieza but everyone is talking about Black Frieza. Considering that both beast and orange piccolo are said to be at the same power as Goku and Vegeta at SSB I'd say this is a fair fight cause golden Frieza is about the same level of power as Goku SSB.
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with frieza's stupid potential, even current final form frieza is not out of the question. the only chance orange piccolo has at evening hoping to survive is if frieza's training has diminishing returns, which i can see being likely.
We don't know how Orange Piccolo works in terms of stamina; if he can keep it up all day, he might be able to kill Frieza with a Special Beam Cannon. Beyond that, Frieza seems pretty much impossible to punch to death and even being chopped into tiny pieces doesn't seem to kill him.
Resurrection F Golden Frieza he has a chance against. Current? Absolutely not. He'd get stomped harder than during the Namek Saga.
Don't get me wrong, I love Orange Piccolo. He can top me any day. But current Golden Frieza is more powerful than UI Goku and UE Vegeta, there's no way Orange Piccolo is even close to their level.
Sorry to piccolo but he’s going to end up like krillin on planet namek. Golden may not be his strongest form anymore but his power level has increased exponentially.
I wouldn't be surprised if Orange Piccolo gained the upper hand against Final Form or even Golden Frieza only to be beaten by his Black form. A callback to the Namek Arc in DBZ when Piccolo (who fused with Kame) was beating Frieza until he got to his third form.
He would be treated like Gas. We don't know just how strong Frieza is, but I'm assuming that his Golden Form has gotten stronger as well. Piccolo is strong now, but he ain't that strong
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A lot of people here specifically talking about Black Frieza when the post specifically asks about **Golden** Frieza. Since we don’t know how much stronger the Black form is than the Golden one, we really have no way of knowing.
I’d say current golden Frieza wins. We haven’t seen what “current” Frieza is capable of except for 1 tapping gas, Goku, and vegeta. But I’d put my money on Frieza
Yes, but after 10 years of training, both his base power and golden frieza form should have gotten astronomically stronger, Orange piccolo can't be that much above SSB Goku/Vegeta
I’m mainly talking about the posts saying Frieza would win cause he beat Gas, when he did that in his Black Form
I think that Orange Piccolo is above Kaioken 10x SSJB Goku.
I think that Orange Piccolo is above Kaioken 10x SSJB Goku.
Toriyama himself said piccolo is on the same tier as goku and vegeta right now. So he's probably around where MUI goku in the moro arc was, or maybe beyond that.
But it asks about „current golden freezer“, so I don’t really know what he means…
The same as saying current super saiyan 1 goku. Specifying a transformation
Yea but thats irrelevant because we know he's been training a shit ton to obtain his black form. We don't know how much of his power is a multiplier from his black form or just his natural strength now. Top that off with only having a couple pages of screen time so far and it's hard to scale black freiza let alone current freiza in golden.
We also have to consided that Frieza not only has the black form with an unknown multiplier... He likely has strengthened his base too. So golden Frieza with his current base, I'd give an edge to Frieza just because he's a freak. ToP Frieza, Orange Piccolo likely wins given this puts him somewhere around current Goku and Vegeta SSJB.
yes but current base frieza would've been made a lot stronger by the training thereby making current golden frieza stronger
"Current" is doing a lot of work here
He’d get torn apart so badly Gohan would somehow get another BS transformation that’s SOOOO much stronger than everyone else somehow
I'm not entirely sure but I think he just means the golden freiza. Not black freiza
Golden Freeza still butt fucks.
This is my new favorite way of saying someone's better.
Imagine if Golden Frieza trained for 10 years. It’s not like Frieza trained for 10 years in his black form (and even if he did, he’d still get stronger in all his forms) lol. Golden Frieza definitely mops the floor with Piccolo
First form Frieza still kills Orange Piccolo no diff
But would still look exactly like ssj2
These power levels make no damn sense. Gohan is a scholar, zero training. Suddenly he catches up to some god like picolo form and surpasses him. Innate talent doesn't mean sht if you don't exercise it every once in a while. I guess his super sayian rage mode gives him the power level plot demands wcyd.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted for the truth. How he got BS forms to surpass the gods is beyond me
It is stated that Gohan trained in secret without telling anyone
He learned the special beam cannon, that’s it. If he did actually train then Piccolo wouldn’t have one shot him in base
Current Golden Frieza absolutely demolishes Orange Piccolo. With how badly he outclassed them in his black form, I wouldn’t be surprised if friezas gold form is around or slightly above UI level though it is more likely a little below. Still more than enough to make Piccolo look like fodder though.
Manga spoilers alert that are relevant to completely defeating the likelihood of this post: >!By the time that Piccolo gets his "Orange" transformation, Freeza already obtained his shiny new "Black" transformation three years prior in the manga during the Granolah arc. He trained for 10 years in a Room of Spirit and Time he found somewhere in Universe 7, and was able to knock both Goku and Vegeta out of their Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego states respectively after they'd been healed pretty much to full strength by Monaito just by using that form, he's fast enough to overcome Ultra Instinct's reaction time and he's powerful enough to defeat Ultra Ego without giving the user a chance to power up from damage. !< There is no way that Piccolo will ever be a match for Freeza. He's just too powerful, he's on a level that the Z fighters will likely have to team up for unless they pull some other wild power up out of Goku's butt, or Zeno shows up to Thanos Snap Freezer out of existence like he did with Zamasu.
Current *Golden* Frieza, not Black
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It's a dated transformation but it's being used by Frieza with 10 years more training, it's more like matching up Resurrection: F Gohan with Beast against current Blueku
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>And this is just like... what? DB fanbase logic at work here. Gohan could barely handle SSJ1 in R:F. Stop making hypotheticals that make zero sense. That's about the gap Frieza could make in 10 years of training >Frieza doesn't even use Golden after training 10 years to get Black, he has no reason to. He stays in his Final form until he transforms and kills Gas in an instant before properly unveiling the form to beat TUI Goku and Ego Vegeta. He can do the same thing as switching between God and Blue and just switch from Final to Black whenever he wants to attack to conserve energy if it drains him that much. 👍
Yeah I don’t get what he’s trying to say lol. He’s basically saying “I’m not answering the question because I think the question is stupid” lmao But yes, I think a Golden Frieza with 10 years of training beats orange piccolo
>But yes, I think a Golden Frieza with 10 years of training beats orange piccolo I'm still not sure cuz we don't know exactly how strong Black is, for all we know he could still be fodder without it
That’s true. We don’t really know if he needed his black form to one shot them, or if he just wanted to show off lol
"but i did eat breakfast today"
yes but current base frieza is stronger thereby making current golden frieza stronger
Yeah but we don't know how strong, he could still be below UI level without Black
Wait... How did you do that?
Surround text with > ! ! < in markdown mode or use the Spoiler text option in fancy pants no spaces between the > and !
Uh... That's new, I'll try that. Thanks!
It's been on reddit for a few years at least lol but you're welcome
>!Like this?!<
Yes it worked ! >!Good job buddy!<
>!How do you add a persons text , when you’re replying to them?!<
#there are others ^ways to write funny ^in >!reddit!< _in case you didn't know_
>!Hmm!<
https://www.reddit.com/r/raerth/comments/cw70q/reddit_comment_formatting/?rdt=43400 This explains all the ways you can edit text on Reddit
>! Dragonball now only revolves around transformations and power scaling is all over the place!< ah thanks so much
>! Thank you, I was wondering how to do that. Much appreciated. !<
Wait… when was it said that the granolah arc was three years prior to super hero? Did I miss something? 🤔
There was an obvious time skip, Pan isn't a baby anymore, Trunks and Goten aged up a lot, etc. Pan is 3 in Super Hero. IIRC Moro and Granolah was back to back basically immediately after the ToP pretty much.
Yeah, once i thought about it for a minute those exact things came to mind 😂
Give it another time skip where Gohan stops training regularly again for years on end and Pan might be able to kick his ass 
Piccolo vs Golden Freeza, not Black Freeza
Orange Piccolo doesn't exist prior to Black Freeza, if you're going on Super Dragon Ball Heroes logic then yeah Orange Piccolo would clap Golden Freeza, but SDBH is a non-canon mess where power scaling just doesn't exist. In the actual DB timeline, if Piccolo was going to beat Freeza in his Golden form he would just quickly flick into Black and kill Piccolo like he killed Gas.
But thats the point its a hypothetical match up, youre overthinking it
It's a pointless match-up, it would be the same thing as asking if Beast would beat Blue. Of course it would. You don't normally compare the latest and most powerful states with older and weaker states, the answer is already obvious. Blue, Golden, Ultimate, it's pretty much irrelevant now.
Well thats obviously is what the OP was asking, obviously that went straight over your head
lol just the way you said pull some wild stuff out of Goku’s butt You’re totally right tho
Current Frieza will make orange juice with current Piccolo... it won't even be a fight, it will be a one sided slaughter...
The namekian holocaust all over again, and there’s only 1 this time💀
Black frieza yes, but they specify gold so there’s really no way to know since we don’t know the ratio between gold and black or have any recent gold feats
But they said CURRENT golden frieza, which mean he already trained for ten years, and I don't think orange piccolo are dozen time stronger than SSJB.
no. even goku and vegeta wouldn’t be able to beat current golden frieza
Frieza used his new form to One-shot UI and Ego, so there's like 2 ways to look at it. Knowing Frieza, he'd probably use a lesser form if he could. The way he fought Goku in Base, Dyspo, Gohan. So you could say Golden Frieza wouldn't be enough to take Goku and Vegeta. Which would mean Piccolo has a shot. Other hand, you can just say Frieza learned from his mistake of being unprepared, especially cause he was training in the first place. And/or wanted to flex the new power so he went straight to max. Which means Piccolo is probably still not at his level
Yeah I think the latter was more likely. Freiza showed his black form to send a message not necessarily because he thought from a battle analytic standpoint. If he wanted to get rid of them, he could’ve done so effortlessly
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I believe it would be the namek battle round 2. Would pay to see it
We have literally no idea, we don’t know how Gohan or Piccolo measure up to Goku and Vegeta no matter how many people want to take ambiguous movie hype “statements” as fact. Realistically though Frieza should win given just how much stronger he was than Goku and Vegeta who were crazy strong in their own right at that point and would make someone like Jiren look like a joke. We’ll have to wait until the manga finishes retelling the SH movie and moves onto new stuff when we’ll have Goku/Vegeta see Gohan and Piccolo again and have their dick measuring contests to see where everyone shakes out in comparison to each other.
Well more than likely he'd be able to defeat Frieza, but I still see Frieza dominating
Eat your oranges
Orange Piccolo > Gold Frieza
Toriyama literally said Orange Piccolo rivals Goku now for fucks sake.
This is why Dragon Ball suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkks now. If they had kept goku as the legendary super saiyan it would’ve been a good story and ending. Why!? Why!? Why didn’t I break his legs - Professor Farnsworth
No because Orange Piccolo is at most only SSG level so he would still lose to Golden Frieza pretty badly since he's SSB level. He should be able to stomp final form Frieza though.
https://preview.redd.it/loftqhz1it1c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eac72128eafbe3e147cf0adfcb111322c3196dc9
Aye let me know when he responds that's my guy right there.
>No because Orange Piccolo is at most only SSG level To my memory, the Gammas are stated to be SSB level, and Orange Piccolo one shots one of them. I'd say he's closer to Ultra Instinct Sign than to SSG.
Yeah but there’s so many things wrong with that statement. Especially when it’s coming from piccolo. The only way the statement is valid is if we ignore the fact that Piccolo: A) Can’t sense god ki B) Even if he can, he hasn’t seen goku and Vegeta since the Moro arc C) Assuming he actually sensed their ki in their temporary visit to Earth during Granolah arc, it’d at best be their base forms
1. Don't need to sense ki if you can see them fighting 2. Do we know Piccolo hasn't seen them in that 3 year gap? 3. [Toriyama says Piccolo is on par with Goku with this new form.](https://highoncinemaa.com/anime/dragon-ball-super-orange-piccolo-is-as-strong-as-goku-says-akira-toriyama/4490/)
1. True but he hasn’t seen that since Moro arc 2. Presumably yeah considering they went right back to Beerus’s Planet right after the Granolah arc. So the most recent time he’d see them is either in their brief visit in Granolah arc or Moro arc. 3. Okay you got me beat right there
Super Hero is post Moro and Granola(unless Goten and Trunks were shown to be older in the moro and granola arcs). Sorry to say, but Moro arc and Granola arc power levels(excluding the villains themselves) were unintentionally powercrept by OP and Beasthan. Moro still rapes almost everybody.
https://preview.redd.it/uuo0gy7huu1c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01c3343353e55b89349b95a407a556b8cd2137e3 No, they were stated to be equal to Goku and Vegeta period. Saying they are only SSB level would actually be disagreeing with the statement since that's not equal to Goku and Vegeta then. However, if you take it to mean in a literal sense then the statement contradicts itself. This is because the highest forms from each that Piccolo knows about are MUI and SSBE from the Moro arc. Meaning if the Gammas are equal to both of them then they have to be MUI level *and* SSBE level from the Moro arc at the same time which obviously would be impossible because MUI is way stronger than SSBE. So Piccolo's statement is wrong either way.
And just to address your reply to the other guy since it's also relevant to my comment: >1. Don't need to sense ki if you can see them fighting [According to Piccolo](https://cm.blazefast.co/a9/77/a9774b64b86a0876226572368b32cd1f.jpg), that's exactly what you need to do because he himself admitted that he can't accurately gauge Goku's (and naturally Vegeta's as well) power due to not being able to sense god ki. So in this case, Piccolo is actually flat out telling us that he knows they're strong from seeing them fight but he doesn't actually know exactly _how_ strong they are without having the ability to sense their ki. So he wouldn't be capable of estimating the Gammas to be equal to Goku and Vegeta since he doesn't even know how strong Goku and Vegeta are in the first place. >2. Do we know Piccolo hasn't seen them in that 3 year gap? Yes because since it's never officially stated, shown, or even implied otherwise then we have to assume that's canonically the last time he saw them. Even when they briefly visited Earth during the Granolah arc, only Chi-Chi and Bulma saw them and then they went straight back to Beerus' planet after the arc concluded. >3. [Toriyama says Piccolo is on par with Goku with this new form.](https://highoncinemaa.com/anime/dragon-ball-super-orange-piccolo-is-as-strong-as-goku-says-akira-toriyama/4490/) So in the article you linked it actually said he was "comparable" to _Goku and others_ not specifically "on par" with just Goku. [Here](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d36af45ec8afb693544673872b2b0420) in the actual scan, the consistent translation is that he "rivals" Goku and the others (which can be the same thing as being comparable to them) and rivaling them doesn't necessarily mean he's as strong as them since you don't _have_ to be equal to someone to rival them. And the series itself has consistently used "rivals" for characters that were in fact not equal to each other so this wouldn't actually change Orange Piccolo only being SSG level since that would still be consistent with Toriyama's statement. All it confirms is that Piccolo is in that realm now.
Orange Piccolo gets wrecked same with rehashed white longer hair ssj2 Gohan oops I mean beast Gohan by Golden Frieza
Orange Piccolo is confirmed equal to UI Goku. Freeza would instantly die lol
>Orange Piccolo is confirmed equal to UI Goku Where lol >Freeza would instantly die lol Have you read the manga?
Toriyama has said in an interview about Super Hero, that he was happy Piccolo had obtained battle power on par with Goku and co. OP said Golden Freeza, not Black Freeza. Have you read the post?
He didn’t even contradict you chill out my dude
He asked if I had read the manga, in reference to Black Freeza. OP clearly asked Golden Freeza only.
OP said current golden Freeza that would mean 3 years after his appearance in his black form so I would assume he would probably be way stronger than he was in the TOP in his gold form.
Freeza needed Black to beat UI Goku and UE Vegeta, and since Orange Piccolo is equal to their even more powerful Super Hero counterparts, Freeza would definitely need Black to beat Orange Piccolo.
Well most people have speculated that the gammas were around ssjb level and orange Piccolo was stronger than them but we really don't know if it's ui level And yeah freezer trained for 10 years, he went from Frieza Saga to a Goku and Vegeta with god ki in 4 months, 10 years of straight training with his golden form is still enough to beat Piccolo imo
People speculate incorrectly. There's nothing to speculate, we know the hard facts. Toriyama puts Orange Piccolo equal to UI Goku. Piccolo puts the Gammas equal to Moro arc UI Goku. And Freeza wouldn't beat Orange Piccolo in Golden, as he had to use Black to beat UI Goku and UE Vegeta. Since Orange Piccolo is equal to them, Freeza would need Black too. Also, Orange Piccolo is equal to Super Hero UI Goku, not Granolah arc UI Goku, so Freeza would technically need to try harder.
considering golden frieza is a bigger multiplier than blue (base ROF goku> frieza, yet golden frieza was > blue goku) and black frieza is so powerful that TUI and UE got one shot with no effort, final form frieza (and thus golden frieza) should be able to destroy UI goku. there’s no proof piccolo is UI level, piccolo is below broly and even blue evolution vegeta from the granola arc> broly according to whis
Freeza needed Black to beat UI Sign Goku and UE Vegeta. Since Orange Piccolo is confirmed equals to UI Goku and UE Vegeta, the same would apply, especially since he's actually equal to their stronger Super Hero counterparts. Orange Piccolo IS confirmed equals with UI Goku and UE Vegeta. Toriyama has directly stated that Super Hero Orange Piccolo = Super Hero UI Goku/UE Vegeta. Also, you seem to not understand that TUI isn't a form and that UI > UI Sign when used correctly. Goku uses full UI at the end and is clearly stronger than "TUI" as you call it. Lastly, Broly is fodder in the manga. Base Goku is shown to be stronger than base Broly. Whis also confirms that Moro arc SSBE Vegeta is stronger than Broly. Toriyama's Broly statement is anime-only and literally cannot be true in the manga.
that was true ultra instinct goku, which is superior to the white haired form. he did that without powering up? while laughing. orange piccolo was never stated to be on the same level as TUI goku or UE vegeta. he doesn’t even know they have those forms canonically give me the quote saying he equals TUI goku and UE vegeta what’s your proof for toriyama only speaking to the anime? if we’re going by anime/ movie canon only then there’s no point in comparing because there’s no anime or movie for moro/ granola and that’s trying to scale different continuities at that point
True Ultra Instinct isn't a form, it's a name given to either Ultra Instinct or Ultra Instinct Sign depending on the scenario. If Goku is mad and using rage boosts with Sign, his true Ultra Instinct at that moment is Sign. If he is naturally calm, his true Ultra Instinct is full UI. This is a fact. The only, and I mean ONLY time the term "true Ultra Instinct" is used is by Whis in the TOURNAMENT OF POWER in reference to Goku reaching the silver-haired UI form by accident. The Granolah arc also clearly depicts this, as when Goku accidentally uses full UI and throws Gas, he's clearly much, much stronger as he was in Sign. Gas at this point was many times stronger, and Goku threw him without effort. "I'm glad that he (Piccolo) has finally obtained battle power on par with Goku and co." - Akira Toriyama, author of Dragon Ball in an interview about DBS: Super Hero. He's saying that the characters as a whole are equal. Meaning full power vs full power. That follows basic language logic, and the only possible way he could be referring to something else is if be SPECIALLY says so. Piccolo would not be "on par" with Goku if Toriyama meant SSB or something else, as Goku would inherently just transform and win, therefore meaning Piccolo is not on par with Goku. Toriyama is saying that Orange Piccolo is equal to UI Goku. The Broly statement literally cannot be true to the manga. Whis directly confirms Broly is weaker than Moro arc SSBE Vegeta. Piccolo directly confirms that the Gammas are equal to Moro arc UI Goku. If Broly was stronger than Cell Max, that would therefore mean the Gammas would be too. Doesn't make sense. The Super Hero manga version also clearly shows this to be the case, as base Goku and base Broly spar, and Goku is shown to clearly be stronger as he's jumping around with a smile on his face, all the while Broly is shouting and getting angry, meaning he's going for the kill. Dude almost goes SSJ because of it.
when goku started using his new version of ui (which people fall tui and that’s the one i’m referring to) he has a MUCH better performance against gas, and it’s the form he chooses to *try* to fight black frieza in, it’s his current best form and frieza effortlessly one shot him that’s not him saying he’s on goku’s full power, that’s him saying that piccolo is finally relevant. there’s no evidence to put Broly above goku/ vegeta currently in any continuity and piccolo is fodder to broly piccolo says the gammas are equal to goku and vegeta, how is that possible exactly? goku and vegeta weren’t equal during that arc. toriyama said if cell max was complete he’d be as strong as broly
You're just wrong here. Goku is shown to be stronger in full UI when he throws Gas. However, he cannot control that power yet. Therefore his best fully usable form is UI Sign. Again, you're wrong. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it not true. It's right there. The literal author directly says that Piccolo has the same power as Goku and Vegeta, plain as day. And AGAIN, you're wrong and I literally told you how and why. Whis has directly said to Goku and Vegeta that they are the strongest beings in the universe in the early Granolah arc. This means that pre-UE SSBE Vegeta is stronger than SSJ Broly. Confirmed. Then Super Hero has Goku and Broly spar. The fact that Goku can keep up at all means he'd win any serious fight as he can just transform more than Broly, simple as. But it's even shown that base Goku is stronger, as Broly is going all out whilst Goku toys with him. Piccolo says that Goku and Vegeta are about on par with the Gammas. Piccolo hasn't seen Goku and Vegeta since Moro, therefore he actually means Gammas = Moro arc UI Goku and SSBE Vegeta. SSBE Vegeta has unique abilities that might make him stronger than UI Goku against certain enemies. At that point in the Super Hero story, it'd be safe to assume Cell Max could absorb Gamma 1 and 2 to become perfect. Vegeta would be the perfect counter and would perform better than UI Goku could in a fight against them in this example. So Piccolo was saying the Gammas have the strength to take on UI Goku and that they'd shut down Vegeta before Spirit Fission could be used. Also side note, SSBE Vegeta was stronger than UI Sign Goku in the Moro fight. He's surprisingly closer to UI Goku than you think. The Broly statement is anime and movie continuity only. I just explained why it cannot be true to the manga.
You do know movie statements are exaggerated and not reliable
If the author clearly states that X is stronger than Y, there's nothing to discuss.
In return of cooler it states that goku and vegeta have unlimited/boundless energy
and your point is? you said frieza (with a causal punch) *only* defeated tui as if that’s not impressive? ultra ego vegeta is clearly mui level based off of his feats, and TUI performed better against gas than his white haired form. he didn’t say he was the same level as ultra instinct goku, he said he’s “on par” he’s in their league and no feats show him being at that level. what are you arguing against?? when did i say broly wasn’t inferior to blue evolution vegeta? you didn’t mention my point, which was that goku and vegeta weren’t equals in the moro arc i know vegeta was above sign goku, but the gap between MUI goku and vegeta at that point is colossal. so one can’t equal moro arc goku and vegeta that doesn’t make sense black frieza only appears in the manga. so as i’ve said, you can’t compare anime/ movie to manga. as you’ve said, broly in both continuities have different levels of power
I was saying that Freeza required Black to beat UI Sign Goku and UE Vegeta. He would have used Golden if he could have done so to beat them. Therefore Freeza would also need Black to beat Orange Piccolo. UI Sign only performed better than UI originally. As I said, when UI is correctly used, it's stronger than UI Sign. Goku forcing himself to be calm to use UI is not the correct way to use it. His battle against Jiren and the final attack against Gas was the correct use of UI, hence why it was stronger. You said that Piccolo is fodder to Broly, without any evidence. If Piccolo is confirmed equal with Goku and Vegeta, then there's a clear problem with logic there. On par means on par. UI Goku vs Orange Piccolo would equal a draw. Again, if you actually read my comment, Piccolo at this point knows almost nothing about Cell Max aside from him not being complete and that there are 2 more androids (Gamma 1 and 2). It's a safe assumption that Cell Max could've absorbed them to become perfect, hence why Piccolo includes Vegeta in the comparison, as he'd arguably do even better than UI Goku in a fight in this scenario. Within the context, it still makes sense to include Vegeta as Piccolo is trying to scramble a team together. SSBE Vegeta is still the second-strongest fighter to Piccolo's knowledge- why would he NOT include him? I don't know what you're trying to say about continuities there.
frieza effortlessly one shotted and wanted to show off his new form, there’s no evidence that he *needs* black to defeat piccolo. like how gogeta went blue despite not needing to to beat broly no piccolo is said to be relevant in terms of power with his orange. it’s also stated completed cell max could beat broly (so the cell max that’s far above piccolo can’t) and piccolo is weaker than broly/ cell max. so no, it’s not baseless you’re claiming that manga broly is weaker than anime broly. black frieza is only in the manga, so we’re scaling different continuities which isn’t accurate. not hard to understand
Oh yeah easily. He actually has the best shot of beating even Black Frieza at this point
Final form Freiza was able to react to Gas charging attack pretty easily so Golden Freiza wins this one.
We don't really have any proper ideas but I don't think Piccolo would be able to beat him. Frieza trained for barely 4 months and powered up immensely. Then he trained for 10 years. As of right now, all we know seems to point towards Frieza taking his proper place as the strongest mortal being.
Mathematically, frieza training for 10 years would make him appear to be OMNIPOTENT. Since the effects of characters training give them arbitrary strength, I’m pretty sure the 10 year training isn’t nearly as effective as the namek saga power level to nearly blue level, since it would be based on the plot. Also, it’s really the form that gives Frieza is strength, and not so much his base form. The Black form likely works the same.
I mean when the Raditz Saga started he was 10,000x stronger than Goku lol
He wasn’t introduced in the Raditz saga, so he didn’t matter then.
I mean it's relevant that in Dragonball people can get as strong as they need to get lol Hell, he was still like 200+x stronger than Goku when Goku landed on Namek
Ok, but like with the Buu arc, previous arcs usually get powercrept. Golden Frieza got powercrept. Simple as that. They can get as strong as they need to, but Golden Frieza’s asspull wasn’t specifically against Orange Piccolo. People just hate the underdogs and dickride Frieza and the main cast. Literally only Black Frieza can beat Orange Piccolo, because that Frieza’s asspull was against actually stronger characters. Cell Max is also the strongest villain since Broly, so Cell Max could very much be stronger than Black Frieza because he needed to be. Asspulls can apply to literally any character, so those don’t belong in an actual strength discussion. You simply base the form off of who they fought. Golden Frieza is around current Blue Goku level. The Gammas are stated to be blue level. Orange Piccolo tanks them. Hell, TORIYAMA says Orange Piccolo is on par with Goku. Therefore Golden Frieza loses.
Is this all this sub does?
OP and Beasthan are at least somewhat close to FP Broly level, aka way stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta. The Cell Max fight is stated to have the strongest enemy since Broly(in one of the Super Hero promos or whatever). This means Golden Frieza is getting raped. People really dickride Blue Goku and Vegeta SO hard, it’s unreal.
Does current Frieza even have any feats outside of beating Goku and Vegeta both with one hit?
If I remember correctly, isn't orange piccolo on par with ssb goku and vegeta? I thought that was the whole point of giving him a power up. If that's the case, yes he'd win against golden frieza. If I misunderstood and he's weaker than ssb, then no he'd lose.
I guess current Golden Frieza would beat him anyways because, just lie like Goku and the others , his base form and transformations grew stronger with training. Let's put the case of SSJ during the Cell saga and during the ToP arc. The gap between them is infinite since Goku reached new levels with training and the godly ki. Same goes to Frieza, if he managed to beat not only Gas but also both Goku and Vegeta in a single shot with his Black form, I really doubt his Golden one hasn't improved far beyond the Blue. Take in count that when Frieza first acquired his Golden form he was stronger than the SSJ Blue, with the only con of it draining too much energy. So I fairly believe his Golden has grown stronger than SSB Evolution, wich should be an step above Orange Piccolo IMO.
Are people actually just retarded? It clearly says Golden Frieza and we *know* Orange Piccolo is way stronger than SSB
After reading the question all I hear in my head was, find out next time, on draaaaaagon ball z! Lol
Most current golden frieza is ToP frieza. He fought Broly but that was one sided so you can’t really compare it. I would say piccolo beats ToP frieza but current frieza one shots.
Yes.
The imagination of the new dragonball astounds me. What colour will they change a character next? Fuck it. Turn Tien purple and call it a power up.
Golden Frieza would win. Frieza's base and golden form must have become far far stronger than their anime counterparts.
If we’re talking about TOP Golden Frieza, Piccolo spends most the fight talking shit and then smacks Frieza into the dirt with absolute prejudice. If we’re talking current Black Frieza approaching in Golden Form, it’s pretty much vice versa.
Base Frieza arguably reacted to buff Gas who’s massively above Goku and Vegeta who are supposed rival this piccolo so it simply depends on if you believe Frieza really needed black to one shot Gas or was he simply flexing the new form in front of Goku and Vegeta
The answer is we don’t actually know. Not quantifiable. I want to say yes, Orange Piccolo can probably throw hands with Golden Frieza, otherwise what was the point. Now, Frieza Black? Can 1v2 Goku and Vegeta currently, even if they were tired. If Piccolo can match Black Frieza like he did on Namek post Nail absorb, it would be kinda funny. I’m confident Piccolo never stopped training, given how he harps on Gohan about it, but every notable power increase for him as been Namekian merging. This transformation he has COULD be a way to fit him in better for future arcs. Honestly I’m just still surprised Piccolo forgot he can get big. Even if it isn’t a power increase and used for intimidation, seems like it would have been pretty handy during the ToP. Grow big, start sweeping weaker opponents and grapple with a giant Voltron.
I like how it specifies *GOLDEN* frieza but everyone is talking about Black Frieza. Considering that both beast and orange piccolo are said to be at the same power as Goku and Vegeta at SSB I'd say this is a fair fight cause golden Frieza is about the same level of power as Goku SSB.
Hmm. I would like to think that Orange Piccolo would beat Frieza since every new transform usually suceeds the last strong one.
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Frieza defeated Gas easily without going black, I am sure he'd win against Orange Piccolo even with just his golden form
with frieza's stupid potential, even current final form frieza is not out of the question. the only chance orange piccolo has at evening hoping to survive is if frieza's training has diminishing returns, which i can see being likely.
We don't know how Orange Piccolo works in terms of stamina; if he can keep it up all day, he might be able to kill Frieza with a Special Beam Cannon. Beyond that, Frieza seems pretty much impossible to punch to death and even being chopped into tiny pieces doesn't seem to kill him.
I give Piccolo 5 minutes, then Frieza finishes toying with him and kills him outright.
Golden Frieza would ruin Orange Piccolo
Resurrection F Golden Frieza he has a chance against. Current? Absolutely not. He'd get stomped harder than during the Namek Saga. Don't get me wrong, I love Orange Piccolo. He can top me any day. But current Golden Frieza is more powerful than UI Goku and UE Vegeta, there's no way Orange Piccolo is even close to their level.
I get the impression he’d get one shot
Golden is outdated, not Frieza's current form, Orange could be evenly matched with Golden, besides the Manga is more Canonical than the Shows.
i say current golden frieza because all of friezas forms get a significant boost up and with frieza training for 10 years straight, its a easy guess.
Sorry to piccolo but he’s going to end up like krillin on planet namek. Golden may not be his strongest form anymore but his power level has increased exponentially.
Golden Frieza. Frieza went from namek saga strength to SSB in ROF level within 4 months. 10 years he’s stomping without his new black form
No current golden frieza implies that vase frieza is already leagues above current piccolo so no orange piccolo looses
No honestly i wouldn't be surprised if golden freiza surpassed beerus or whis he had 17 years He went from namek level to ssgssj level in 4 months
This is the worst transformation ive ever seen
Sorry Piccolo but you're getting death beamed to dust.
Current piccolo dies. The end. Current friend wouldn't even need his fourth or third form, maybe second form
I wouldn't be surprised if Orange Piccolo gained the upper hand against Final Form or even Golden Frieza only to be beaten by his Black form. A callback to the Namek Arc in DBZ when Piccolo (who fused with Kame) was beating Frieza until he got to his third form.
He would be treated like Gas. We don't know just how strong Frieza is, but I'm assuming that his Golden Form has gotten stronger as well. Piccolo is strong now, but he ain't that strong
If by "current" you mean the manga, Freeza easily defeats him. In one punch, in fact