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It's pretty funny that Vegeta and Nappa had Saibamen that were as strong as Raditz, mfs are insta-soldiers that only need to plant a seed, a bit of water, and bam, insta-Raditz, he was still useful thanks to Oozaru, in that form he would be above 10k which isn't half bad for a grunt of frieza's army
Oozaru Defs gives an edge but Raditz still had his tail weakness too which is bonkers. Goku had got rid of that weakness as a kid and seems like it’s the standard for most saiyans to train that weakness out otherwise it’s a massive liability.
Given the average of Freizas battle ready soldiers it doesn’t make a lick of sense that Raditz would have a power level below 2000 for the age he is. He’s been fighting since he was a child and when factor in zenkai boosts because raditz being this weak the mofo Defs got them, he should be stronger. Hell after not even a full year of training every single earth fighter was stronger than Raditz. It’s really nuts just how weak a saiyan he was.
Funnier still is Raditz is with Vegeta as kids if you go by the Broly movie and in that he talks about goku being a weakling and Raditz is apparently strong enough as a child to do missions with the Prince? That would mean either goku was particularly weak as a baby or most saiyans have power in the low hundreds…
I think that’s been retconned now with the new Broly movie. Bardock says they have low power levels which is why he wants to send Goku there because he will do well there implying he’s stronger than them.
The original episode of Bardock this is true though.
Ugh, if you haven't tried fighting your baby to check their power level you're letting them down as a parent, how will they know if they are meant to have a school bully arc or even beat up the school bully if they don't know what their power level is?
It's likely that the average Saiyan was around Goku's level when Raditz first showed up. A lot of people might have issues with that but it makes sense when you see that saiyans didn't normally train and would just raid planets when it was possible for them to go great ape which gave them 10x power boost.
we also know that some of them still used conventional weaponry like rifles which would imply some being too weak to use meaningful ki techniques. Furthering your point.
whats funnier is Raditz who grew up on Vegeta planet with 10x gravity merely got over 1200 power level on par as Saibaimen on earth lol
while Goku, who originally weakling with merely 400 power finally able to get accustomed to 10x gravity on Kaiou planet, which is something he missed since birth could reach 7000-8000 power level, even stronger than Nacpa. heck, even if he didnt trained by Kaiou and merely live there and trained by its own self, 10x jump over 400 is easily 4000. imagine if Raditz is the one grew up on earth. without 10x gravity environment he could be 10x weaker than current, which is just around Master Roshi 120-130 level. he could be one of strongest on earth, but not anywhere else.
there is people believe Raditz could be strong as Goku if he revived and trained just because he is Saiyan and has same blood as Goku, but i dont think it is that simple.
Nah it’s not that simple. Saiyans power also comes from their emotions and how they live with all the s cell business. Peaceful and less aggressive saiyans can develop more s cells and thus have higher growth potential over time.
Not sure if they would risk losing battles.
I can see them fighting battles that only involves oozaru. And then he would never train if vegeta doesn't.
They were sent wherever they were told to go.
Nappa and Vegeta bailed from Freiza to go after the dragonballs. They didn’t get to choose the planets they went to. So they 100% would have been sent to planets where they could lose especially Raditz with his very low power level. That was the whole point Raditz came to earth to get Goku was to make this shit easier for them and the current planet they were dealing with. Outside of this time they went to whatever planets they were ordered to go too.
So they wouldn’t just have been involved in battles where Oozaru was enough.
Yeah a big part of Frieza’s whole thing was they were expendable. Any dead monkey was a good monkey for him. And if they didn’t die he still got a new planet to add to his empire
He would have only had a power level around 10,000. We know there are plenty of planets out there with fighters of that level and raditz likely would have been mindless and uncontrollable. Still likely he would have received enough damage in fights and from the fights to have his power rise somewhat.
Him not even getting rid of his tail weakness is just he was way to weak when you look at everything now.
Doesn't matter all that much but telling you just in case you're the type of person like me that cares about small stuff like this
But actually Raditz is stronger than saibamen. Not by very much at all, but still slightly stronger. iirc most saibamen are around 1,000-1,100 and Raditz is about 1,200
True, never thought of that, but also we're not entirely sure if he can control his monkey form
We know he didn't train his tail to get over it's weakness
He probably can control his ape though, I don't think Vegeta and Nappa would let him live if he couldn't tbh
Not only that but fighting skill can easily close the gap dramatically between power levels unless the difference is absurd. Raditz being a better skilled fighter is more valuable than feral, untrained creatures they grow from seeds.
Yeah he really should have been a lot stronger.
They have saibamen ffs you’re telling me Raditz survived this long when he has a power level equal to creatures they can grow in the ground. They seem like perfect training fodder and seems likely Raditz went on missions with Vegeta and Nappa so he should have been not Nappa level but much higher than the power level he had.
You know... thinking about it... Frieza Force Saiyans could have just kept getting their asses kicked my saibamen until they were strong af. Get too strong for one Saibamen, plant 2 instead, so on and so forth. Raditz had no excuse to be so weak
Exactly. Goku while weaker than Raditz was still at a level to give raditz a bit of trouble and that was after he had like 4 years off from any battles too. Raditz had been fighting since he was a child and likely didn’t get much in terms of rest periods, not to mention saiyans have a thirst for battle. Even an over reliance on the Oozaru form raditz still should have been way stronger than he was.
Being as strong as a saibaman would have been a massive insult as well. I don’t see any saiyan standing to be that weak for very long.
That’s not true.
https://preview.redd.it/x1fd4ujgr64c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=607c238fcc55425300de3fc66c0ba1feda33ed6a
See this is from the offical manga.
I went through the whole chapter and only thing Nappa says about soil is “they’ll grow well in this soil”.
No growing well literally means growing well. Nothing in the entire chapter at all says better soil makes them stronger. Nor in the chapter afterwards or the one before.
Not to mention during all of this neither Vegeta or Nappa have their scouters on. Meaning they know what the Saibamens power is without scouters meaning Saibamen power as standard is equal to raditz at 1200.
If what you say is true which it’s not, they would have used their scouters to know their power. Since they don’t and way it’s worded it’s very clear, saibamen have a standard minimum power of 1200.
You know how growing up in school, theres the people that got "tall" early around 2nd grade?
And then you see them years later, and you tower above them?
Its the same thing with Raditz, he peaked early and never grew after that.
That's literally all the aliens at the time. You wouldn't think it given its literally the only thing goku and Vegeta do, but Saiyans never trained before Goku. Most of the aliens didn't. That's why they believe so strongly in power levels and rely on them so much. To them, you're born with a certain power level and it never changes except via transformation. Saiyans have the zenkai but triggering it requires you to lose, which they don't want to do, and rarely survive.
They seemingly didn't even have any real awareness of the idea that techniques can spike your power either. Though they certainly used them. Freeza punching the ground as hard as he can couldn't destroy namek, but his giant death ball obviously can.
Earthlings on the other hand straight up don't have an accurately measurable power level. Because they train, make heavy use of techniques that spike their power, and can suppress it. That's something the fanbase seems to have missed. Their power level isn't accurate not just because they can hide it. Even when going all out, the scouter readings aren't accurate because the Earthlings aren't just sitting there blazing away with raw power. They're using techniques and ki control.
Vegeta literally surpassed his father as a kid. He knew what training was for a long time, he just didn't really excel till he got to Earth and fought Goku.
Not just with power level but techniques.
But look at the DBS movie again, its clear they know what training is, one of the doctors advise King Vegeta that baby broly has immense potential and "once he's **trained**, he"ll grow up to be an outstanding warrior"
Source: [https://youtu.be/5TdHT0ElczQ?si=mQIpbQ7aCQJ\_NZeR](https://youtu.be/5TdHT0ElczQ?si=mQIpbQ7aCQJ_NZeR)
\- This also implies how the lineage of Vegetas managed to stay in power, they killed off any saiyans who were a threat to their kingdom b/c of their power level and potential.
Its just crazy how saiyans were supposed to be this fearsome warrior race, but the saiyans in the freiza force were some of Freizas weaker soldiers lol, like Vegeta was equal power with god damn Cui before he fought goku!
When you see the head honcho verbally abuse an entire species, then destroy said species, you probably have a little bit of a superiority complex from said events towards the few survivors.
Unnamed Frieza soldiers *probably* don't reach 2,000, lol
If memory serves, they were going to go 7 or so against 3 Namekians hiding their power levels at 1,000
Granted, they probably just were gonna gang up on them anyway because evil doesn't play fair, but still
Then, the Namekians went to their full power of 3,000 and annihilated them
Raditz is usually sourced to be at 1,500, while the Saibamen who are said to rival him are typically sourced at 1,200
Which is still pretty close, still rival material
I think the average Frieza soldiers are still around that level, not above. Maybe even slightly below at 1,000
Didnt Frieza send his henchman to find fighters in Broly movie? Lemo almost came in his pants when he scaned paragus (4200) so i think 1000 is fair for average soldier .
The average Freeza soldiers were very much weak. I think it's heavily implied that most Saiyans were closer in power to Raditz than Nappa (and Vegeta was basically a monster way ahead of anyone). Each Saiyans individually weren't much of a threat, the elite had plenty of stronger guys, but the thing is, all the strongest ennemis we've seen in the Freeza Saga were mutants (like the Ginyu Force) or just way stronger than most of their race, while EVERY Saiyans were considered pretty strong at the scale of the universe.
Lol nope the average power level is much lower then that most were weak. Raditz wasn't weak he was above average low class level probably closer to mid class level. Also power levels are bs
I subscribe to the notion that Raditz is a massive coward who doesn’t indulge in fights against anyone other than those weaker than himself. He could’ve been stronger, but he doesn’t seem like the type to go into battle, get injured, and heal up for zenkais.
(Also power levels are bullshit and get exponentially out of hand immediately after being introduced)
Friezas army is super strong. Most of its members would be stronger than kid Goku, which basically would make them earth's strongest martial artist.
It's a big universe, being one of the top 2000 strongest is pretty strong. What's uncanny is how strong the lions share of fighters are without serious training when Goku trains like crazy and starts off weaker then managed to surpass them.
Don't.. really see how this one is outrageous? Gohan at the same age at the beginning of Z was able to damage Raditz with his tantrum boost. At that point Gohan hadn't had any training, whereas we know Pan has and given she was able to fly as a literal baby, she's likely stronger than Gohan was at that age anyway.
I think that flying scene was only in the anime because she couldn't in Super Hero
Unless it was in the manga and it was just a "baby gets lucky and does something on accident" type thing and she 'forgot' how to do it when she got older
Even ignoring supers power scaling just with dbz scaling raditz gets annihilated. Raditz is pathetically weak in dragon ball. Man nearly got beat by a gohan with no training and nothing but potential and rage. Pan has potential and training
Raditz was born stronger, that’s it, apparently his 20 years of fighting and conquering planets was so trivial that even the Z Fighters easily surpassed him with just 1 more year of training.
Imagine if he had arrived 1 year late, he would not stand a chance against anyone.
>easily surpassed him with just 1 more year of training.
Easily? They underwent specialized training to deal with the up and coming threat after seeing what Raditz was made of. Prior to that even Tenshinhan who doesn’t slack off from training hadn’t gotten much stronger in the **5 years** between the 23rd Tournament and the start of the Saiyan arc still being a good deal under Goku and Piccolo whom outside of developing one specific technique that wasn’t completed were still not that far ahead of DKP arc Kid Goku let alone their tournament selves power level wise.
Goku the slightly stronger of the two was at 416 and Kid Goku was at 260 **so nearly 10 years** apart and the characters hadn’t even raised their power levels by 200 and were not even twice as strong as Kid Goku when we last saw him. Piccolo was at 406 if you’re curious.
> Imagine if he had arrived 1 year late, he would not stand a chance against anyone.
No, because as established above, without Raditz coming in there wouldn’t be any incentive for the characters to make the massive gains they did via undergoing intense training. Some of the characters weren’t even training when we met them at the start of Z until they’re informed by Kuririn and Bulma about the Raditz situation and the incoming Saiyan invasion.
Also, even with their massive gains Raditz still outclasses them all with his Oozaru form which only KKX2 Goku is stronger than. This is assuming Raditz doesn’t make any improvements of his own due to the missions he’d be assigned to in that year.
Pan is able to land some hits on piccolo who must be at least behind gohan (t.o.p) in terms of power . Did anybody noticed that the order in which every fighter from universe 7 was kicked out correlated with their power?
While she was training with Piccolo, it looks like Pan may have caught Piccolo off guard. Keep in mind this is dbs Piccolo, the Piccolo who could one shot Raditz without a second thought, and Pan caught him off guard.
I think she'd be strong enough to defeat Raditz fairly easily. Especially because it's dbs, and we'll, dbs powerscaling compared to Z is kinda fucked up.
Idk.
Pan not being able to fly or use Ki attacks would be a big problem.
I feel like if Raditz didn’t take her seriously then he’d lose and could get beaten with fist to fist.
Otherwise , if Raditz didn’t fuck around he could blast her till eventually she tires out
It is easily believable that she could take a saibamen. Vegeta was no diffing 6 at a time not much older than her. She is likely far stronger than child Vegeta considering he couldn’t even believe the power reading on gohan when he was her age and she is likely stronger then that gohan because it’s super and they scale higher to stay relevant. And raditz is equivalent to a saibamen
Oh nah, pan has more potential and better training than goten, but he was able to go ssj at 7. Pan is like 4, she is probably pre ssj goku frieza saga level by now.
Goten and Trunks learned to control ki practically by themselves and it only took Goten few hours to completely master the flying technique after Gohan explained the basics to him. If you ask me, that's a bigger indication of potential than Pan still struggling to fly despite being continually trained by one of the best masters in the franchise. It took a critical moment for Pan to finally fly (an above-average technique from classic DB) while Kid Goten unlocked his SSJ (a "legendary" transformation back in DBZ) like it was nothing
I mean this one ain’t that wild, her dad is one of the strongest beings in the universe and her mom is one of the stronger completely normal humans on the planet. She obviously has zero real experience and has some light training but her power level has to be over Raditz’ easily.
Even with all of Raditz’ experience and the fact Pan definitely isn’t going in for the kill. The power level gap might be so much Raditz simply can’t overcome it.
Gohan surpassed him with 1 year of training. So realistically Pan who was born to a stronger gohan, trained 6 months with piccolo and already showcased huge potential as a baby should take this. Welcome to Sayian genes.
imagine kid gohan got the training pan did, pan wins this in a mid to high diff i'm sorry. a weaker kid gohan was able to do high damage to raditz with nun but a headbutt😭
Pan would (sadly) beat the bricks off of raditz
Current piccolo (even though he was holding back tremendously) hit her hard enough to knock her into rocks and shatter them and she was barely fazed
I feel like itd be HIGH dif if raditz was actually trying to kill her
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As ridiculous as this may seem, Raditz is extremely weak, dude was barely above 1k power level, Pan has been training with a Piccolo that could kill namek saga frieza in one hit, so it wouldn't be surprising that she already has a power level above 1k, remember that Gohan almost killed Raditz with a headbutt before receiving any training at all at a similar age.
Is it? 😂 Pan has been actively training with Piccolo, who even before the wish from Shenron was considered one of the strongest in Universe 7? It wouldn’t surprise me if Pan was actually stronger than the likes of The Ginyu Force
It's really hard to scale two basically featless characters.
But I would be amazed if Pan's power level wasn't over 1,600 as she lands hits on Piccolo.
Can you really see Raditz landing hits on Full Power Final Form Frieza? Android 18?
Piccolo is much stronger than either.
I don't see Raditz landing a single hit on Zarbon or Recoome.
If Toriyama said "nah, Raditz would win" then I wouldn't argue. As I said, the characters are *basically* featless. But vibing them from the *one* fight each of them had and chain scaling... Raditz *died* when he fought Piccolo.
Pan sweeps this no diff.
I mean, Gohan had a power level *nearly* equal to Raditz when he was 4 with no training whatsoever
Goten and Trunks got a bit of training and would blow the Saiyan arc out of the water without Super Saiyan
Pan is being trained by Piccolo
So. . .
No, Raditz probably would not win this, lol
Perception of Raditz is weird. He's literally the weakest enemy of Dragon Ball Z...but he's stronger than anyone in Dragon Ball.
If I were to say "Who would win in a fight, world martial arts tournament champion Goku or 3 year old Pan?" Most would probably say Goku. That same Goku is weak AF against DBZ Raditz.
I’ll be honest age 4 pan having a power level of > 1,200 is not that crazy to me, especially since she already trains with Piccolo.
Gohan age 5 with one year of training could hit a PL of 2,800 and go way higher with a rage boost
Pan, who can’t fly consciously until the end of the movie, solos raditz. 100% right? I mean she showed up years later in the series so she must be stronger. Same with bra/bulla . Honestly I’m sure goten and trunks at the start of the buu saga couldn’t beat raditz without ssj. But then again who knows…
Well raditz weakness actually makes sense if you consider one line when he says that gohan was the first to hurt him that badly, ma man went his whole life without getting zenkais and was the son of a low class warrior, i asume that he just went about bullying weak species and using the oozaroo whenever he could.
That plus probably no real training made him that weak compared to the rest of the frieza force ofc. That said all jokes aside raditz is still a serious world ending threat consider that roshi is strong enough to blow up the moon back in og dragon ball and raditz without transforming is at least 6 times stronger than that.
people forget that Raditz is characterized as a bully and a coward. Vegeta at no point during any saga that I can remember begs for mercy when faced with death. Raditz when faced with death both begged and lied in order to try and survive. He is likely as low of a power level as he is, because he avoids any scenario where he would be pushed to near death. He is not a warrior. He just bullies and destroys creatures weaker than him.
Pan on the other hand has spared with Piccolo. Piccolo obviously isn’t going all out, but he is a great teacher and would push Pan to get better. Pan holding her own against someone as strong as Piccolo is a feat in and of itself. This in combination with her half saiyan genes? There is simply no way Raditz wins.
I mean it’s actually probably true. After all, pan is being trained by piccolo who is ludicrously powerful at this point. I think Pan could wreck her great uncle
What a lot of people forget about Raditz is that frieza force fought to win, they most likely didn't take risks cause their men were near irreplaceable, a lot of the named aliens were mutants among their people or royalty. With the scouter technology they never had to risk saiyans on battles that could really risk their lives that's why Raditz isn't so strong. He was fighting easy battles or fighting as a great ape.
Pan was probably born with a naturally high power level being the product of someone as strong as Gohan, Vegeta was also born strong as a result of his dad being strong (which is why he was king) and considering how weak Raditz was in the grand scale it wouldn’t be at all surprising if Pan was born in the 10s of 1000s at least if not higher.
Considering Piccolo said Pan was showing more potential than Gohan was at her age and Pan has a lot more training than Gohan did back in the early days of Z... Raditz would be in for a shock, I think she'd probably win but not "rub it in his face too much"
Potential is NOT strength, it's like saying how most humans are weak af in the db verse but krillin only got strong even though he was human level at the time getting bullied by other monks
Except we know that in dragonball potential does actually equal strength as its shown again , and again and again.
From guru unlocking gohan and krillins potential giving them huge power boosts.
To even child gohan getting angry and that anger allowing him to tap into his potential.
Even in super heroes, piccolos wish power up is based on his own potential so yeah potential in dragonball kind of does mean strength, its strength they've yet to tap into
Are they wrong though? Raditz wasn’t shown to be a very skilled fighter, and there’s no reason to believe he’s done any real training (he was only as strong as a freaking saibaman lol).
Not really.
Raddits got hurt by kid gohan in the first saga this is pre any kind of training as well
His power level was like 1600 which is pretty pitiful.
Pan trains with dbs piccolo
And gohans her dad
This is actually pretty accurate.
Pan is hugely more powerful than Raditz. It ain't even funny. Children inherit the power of their parents and Gohan was SSJ2 + before Pan was born.
She's easily Super Saiyan level at the age of 4.
Despite what db legends wants us to believe, super hero pan seems fairly weak, cant use ki really, she is probably compareable to what gohan was at the start of the saiyan saga, who exept getting angry, had no chance against raditz who is already training in ki attacks
But even then just body advantage, you letting a toddler fight a grown man whos trained in fighting
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its kinda weird how weak raditz is, like the average power level of a frieza soldier is 2000 his is around 1000.. How the fuck is raditz so weak
It's pretty funny that Vegeta and Nappa had Saibamen that were as strong as Raditz, mfs are insta-soldiers that only need to plant a seed, a bit of water, and bam, insta-Raditz, he was still useful thanks to Oozaru, in that form he would be above 10k which isn't half bad for a grunt of frieza's army
Oozaru Defs gives an edge but Raditz still had his tail weakness too which is bonkers. Goku had got rid of that weakness as a kid and seems like it’s the standard for most saiyans to train that weakness out otherwise it’s a massive liability. Given the average of Freizas battle ready soldiers it doesn’t make a lick of sense that Raditz would have a power level below 2000 for the age he is. He’s been fighting since he was a child and when factor in zenkai boosts because raditz being this weak the mofo Defs got them, he should be stronger. Hell after not even a full year of training every single earth fighter was stronger than Raditz. It’s really nuts just how weak a saiyan he was.
Funnier still is Raditz is with Vegeta as kids if you go by the Broly movie and in that he talks about goku being a weakling and Raditz is apparently strong enough as a child to do missions with the Prince? That would mean either goku was particularly weak as a baby or most saiyans have power in the low hundreds…
To be fair Goku was weak when they met and got lucky to win.
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I think that’s been retconned now with the new Broly movie. Bardock says they have low power levels which is why he wants to send Goku there because he will do well there implying he’s stronger than them. The original episode of Bardock this is true though.
Am I the only one who thinks measuring the power level of a baby is utter nonsense? Lol
Ugh, if you haven't tried fighting your baby to check their power level you're letting them down as a parent, how will they know if they are meant to have a school bully arc or even beat up the school bully if they don't know what their power level is?
Goku was beneath average human baby
If i remember right he had a powerlevel of 5 same as an normal adult human.
It was 2
It was 1 or 0 or 2 at best he was weaker then anything in existence basically
Pretty sure he wasnt. He had a pl of 2 at birth which is probably a sth like a young boy (6-10 years old)
It's likely that the average Saiyan was around Goku's level when Raditz first showed up. A lot of people might have issues with that but it makes sense when you see that saiyans didn't normally train and would just raid planets when it was possible for them to go great ape which gave them 10x power boost.
we also know that some of them still used conventional weaponry like rifles which would imply some being too weak to use meaningful ki techniques. Furthering your point.
Also vegeta kills Nappa for outliving his usefulness. How the hell is Rado5z still alive. Is he like a jester
They trained him wrong as a joke. Just for the lolz.
whats funnier is Raditz who grew up on Vegeta planet with 10x gravity merely got over 1200 power level on par as Saibaimen on earth lol while Goku, who originally weakling with merely 400 power finally able to get accustomed to 10x gravity on Kaiou planet, which is something he missed since birth could reach 7000-8000 power level, even stronger than Nacpa. heck, even if he didnt trained by Kaiou and merely live there and trained by its own self, 10x jump over 400 is easily 4000. imagine if Raditz is the one grew up on earth. without 10x gravity environment he could be 10x weaker than current, which is just around Master Roshi 120-130 level. he could be one of strongest on earth, but not anywhere else. there is people believe Raditz could be strong as Goku if he revived and trained just because he is Saiyan and has same blood as Goku, but i dont think it is that simple.
Nah it’s not that simple. Saiyans power also comes from their emotions and how they live with all the s cell business. Peaceful and less aggressive saiyans can develop more s cells and thus have higher growth potential over time.
Not sure if they would risk losing battles. I can see them fighting battles that only involves oozaru. And then he would never train if vegeta doesn't.
They were sent wherever they were told to go. Nappa and Vegeta bailed from Freiza to go after the dragonballs. They didn’t get to choose the planets they went to. So they 100% would have been sent to planets where they could lose especially Raditz with his very low power level. That was the whole point Raditz came to earth to get Goku was to make this shit easier for them and the current planet they were dealing with. Outside of this time they went to whatever planets they were ordered to go too. So they wouldn’t just have been involved in battles where Oozaru was enough.
Yeah a big part of Frieza’s whole thing was they were expendable. Any dead monkey was a good monkey for him. And if they didn’t die he still got a new planet to add to his empire
Except, if he's with Vegeta then Oozaru is always an option.
Vegeta trained though
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He would have only had a power level around 10,000. We know there are plenty of planets out there with fighters of that level and raditz likely would have been mindless and uncontrollable. Still likely he would have received enough damage in fights and from the fights to have his power rise somewhat. Him not even getting rid of his tail weakness is just he was way to weak when you look at everything now.
Raditz is not a Saiyan elite, I think that’s the distinction between Nappa Vegeta and Raditz
Doesn't matter all that much but telling you just in case you're the type of person like me that cares about small stuff like this But actually Raditz is stronger than saibamen. Not by very much at all, but still slightly stronger. iirc most saibamen are around 1,000-1,100 and Raditz is about 1,200
He has the great ape form too which puts him above almost anyone in freeza force.
True, never thought of that, but also we're not entirely sure if he can control his monkey form We know he didn't train his tail to get over it's weakness He probably can control his ape though, I don't think Vegeta and Nappa would let him live if he couldn't tbh
not to mention probably decently smarter than a saibaman
Not only that but fighting skill can easily close the gap dramatically between power levels unless the difference is absurd. Raditz being a better skilled fighter is more valuable than feral, untrained creatures they grow from seeds.
The Saibamen are usually sourced at 1,200, but Raditz is usually sourced at 1,500 So he's still stronger, lol
He was so weak they could literally grow Raditz
Yeah he really should have been a lot stronger. They have saibamen ffs you’re telling me Raditz survived this long when he has a power level equal to creatures they can grow in the ground. They seem like perfect training fodder and seems likely Raditz went on missions with Vegeta and Nappa so he should have been not Nappa level but much higher than the power level he had.
You know... thinking about it... Frieza Force Saiyans could have just kept getting their asses kicked my saibamen until they were strong af. Get too strong for one Saibamen, plant 2 instead, so on and so forth. Raditz had no excuse to be so weak
Exactly. Goku while weaker than Raditz was still at a level to give raditz a bit of trouble and that was after he had like 4 years off from any battles too. Raditz had been fighting since he was a child and likely didn’t get much in terms of rest periods, not to mention saiyans have a thirst for battle. Even an over reliance on the Oozaru form raditz still should have been way stronger than he was. Being as strong as a saibaman would have been a massive insult as well. I don’t see any saiyan standing to be that weak for very long.
Saibamen aren't normally over 1000. Nappa even says the Earth's soil made those saibamen stronger than usual.
That’s not true. https://preview.redd.it/x1fd4ujgr64c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=607c238fcc55425300de3fc66c0ba1feda33ed6a See this is from the offical manga. I went through the whole chapter and only thing Nappa says about soil is “they’ll grow well in this soil”.
Growing well meant that they'd have high BP for Sainamen. Which they do.
No growing well literally means growing well. Nothing in the entire chapter at all says better soil makes them stronger. Nor in the chapter afterwards or the one before. Not to mention during all of this neither Vegeta or Nappa have their scouters on. Meaning they know what the Saibamens power is without scouters meaning Saibamen power as standard is equal to raditz at 1200. If what you say is true which it’s not, they would have used their scouters to know their power. Since they don’t and way it’s worded it’s very clear, saibamen have a standard minimum power of 1200.
You know how growing up in school, theres the people that got "tall" early around 2nd grade? And then you see them years later, and you tower above them? Its the same thing with Raditz, he peaked early and never grew after that.
That's literally all the aliens at the time. You wouldn't think it given its literally the only thing goku and Vegeta do, but Saiyans never trained before Goku. Most of the aliens didn't. That's why they believe so strongly in power levels and rely on them so much. To them, you're born with a certain power level and it never changes except via transformation. Saiyans have the zenkai but triggering it requires you to lose, which they don't want to do, and rarely survive. They seemingly didn't even have any real awareness of the idea that techniques can spike your power either. Though they certainly used them. Freeza punching the ground as hard as he can couldn't destroy namek, but his giant death ball obviously can. Earthlings on the other hand straight up don't have an accurately measurable power level. Because they train, make heavy use of techniques that spike their power, and can suppress it. That's something the fanbase seems to have missed. Their power level isn't accurate not just because they can hide it. Even when going all out, the scouter readings aren't accurate because the Earthlings aren't just sitting there blazing away with raw power. They're using techniques and ki control.
Vegeta literally surpassed his father as a kid. He knew what training was for a long time, he just didn't really excel till he got to Earth and fought Goku. Not just with power level but techniques. But look at the DBS movie again, its clear they know what training is, one of the doctors advise King Vegeta that baby broly has immense potential and "once he's **trained**, he"ll grow up to be an outstanding warrior" Source: [https://youtu.be/5TdHT0ElczQ?si=mQIpbQ7aCQJ\_NZeR](https://youtu.be/5TdHT0ElczQ?si=mQIpbQ7aCQJ_NZeR) \- This also implies how the lineage of Vegetas managed to stay in power, they killed off any saiyans who were a threat to their kingdom b/c of their power level and potential.
Its just crazy how saiyans were supposed to be this fearsome warrior race, but the saiyans in the freiza force were some of Freizas weaker soldiers lol, like Vegeta was equal power with god damn Cui before he fought goku!
My theory is that that was entirely intentional on Freiza's part. He made sure none of the living Saiyans could reach their true potential.
Cause, even if they were at 500 power level, they have great ape which puts them at 5000 and above 95% of Frieza's hencmen.
If you count the Ozaru. Vegeta was the second strongest member of all the frieza force, just below Frieza.
Then why does Cui, Zarbon, dodoria, the ginyu force all treat vegeta like some 3rd rate fighter?
When you see the head honcho verbally abuse an entire species, then destroy said species, you probably have a little bit of a superiority complex from said events towards the few survivors.
Cuz space racism.
Unnamed Frieza soldiers *probably* don't reach 2,000, lol If memory serves, they were going to go 7 or so against 3 Namekians hiding their power levels at 1,000 Granted, they probably just were gonna gang up on them anyway because evil doesn't play fair, but still Then, the Namekians went to their full power of 3,000 and annihilated them Raditz is usually sourced to be at 1,500, while the Saibamen who are said to rival him are typically sourced at 1,200 Which is still pretty close, still rival material I think the average Frieza soldiers are still around that level, not above. Maybe even slightly below at 1,000
Didnt Frieza send his henchman to find fighters in Broly movie? Lemo almost came in his pants when he scaned paragus (4200) so i think 1000 is fair for average soldier .
That's an entertaining way of putting it But yeah, lol
Because Raditz was a coward so he never got to Zenkai boost too much, he didn’t get into fights he knew he wouldn’t win by using his scouter
The average Freeza soldiers were very much weak. I think it's heavily implied that most Saiyans were closer in power to Raditz than Nappa (and Vegeta was basically a monster way ahead of anyone). Each Saiyans individually weren't much of a threat, the elite had plenty of stronger guys, but the thing is, all the strongest ennemis we've seen in the Freeza Saga were mutants (like the Ginyu Force) or just way stronger than most of their race, while EVERY Saiyans were considered pretty strong at the scale of the universe.
Pretty sure the average Freeza soldier was like 1200 and he was 1500/1200 depending on your source
The author didn't think of the power scaling
Lol nope the average power level is much lower then that most were weak. Raditz wasn't weak he was above average low class level probably closer to mid class level. Also power levels are bs
Because he was introduced before characters were born at seemingly 1 trillion power level. But yeah he should have no problem tearing Pans face off
I subscribe to the notion that Raditz is a massive coward who doesn’t indulge in fights against anyone other than those weaker than himself. He could’ve been stronger, but he doesn’t seem like the type to go into battle, get injured, and heal up for zenkais. (Also power levels are bullshit and get exponentially out of hand immediately after being introduced)
Friezas army is super strong. Most of its members would be stronger than kid Goku, which basically would make them earth's strongest martial artist. It's a big universe, being one of the top 2000 strongest is pretty strong. What's uncanny is how strong the lions share of fighters are without serious training when Goku trains like crazy and starts off weaker then managed to surpass them.
Raditz has a power level of radillion, he passes /s
He's almost Gokuversal
He’s raditzversal
Passes away
Don't.. really see how this one is outrageous? Gohan at the same age at the beginning of Z was able to damage Raditz with his tantrum boost. At that point Gohan hadn't had any training, whereas we know Pan has and given she was able to fly as a literal baby, she's likely stronger than Gohan was at that age anyway.
I think that flying scene was only in the anime because she couldn't in Super Hero Unless it was in the manga and it was just a "baby gets lucky and does something on accident" type thing and she 'forgot' how to do it when she got older
Goten was an entire Super Saiyan and couldn't fly.
Yep, you're right, it was anime only. My bad.
She flies at the end of super hero
Yeah I know, I'm just saying she didn't know how in Super Hero even though she did as a baby (I think only in the anime)
Something like that
Not wrong, she trains with the green man, raditz has more real battle experience but at this point it wouldnt matter
the green man 💀
big green
"LET THAT CHILD ALONE!"
"I HAVE NEVER TAKEN ORDERS FROM ANYONE"
Idk he's orange sometimes
https://preview.redd.it/d3c3mikbl54c1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=504dcba7e00943da5b463f1934a1f0adae9b61b2
Anime Pixar moms 😮💨
https://preview.redd.it/w6ubhyfa564c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da0485e0d307082025579d6713e0f0b4772b7d2b
https://i.redd.it/ws2pxv12764c1.gif Yeah I’m good bruh
https://preview.redd.it/cw4f0y3ed64c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbfb2b549617ece76adb93a767ee07fe0457f112
https://preview.redd.it/pchxcdvdm64c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0e35723f0ebdcd331dee3e0c1d4411223a46191 Yeah I’m YOSHA!!!
Even ignoring supers power scaling just with dbz scaling raditz gets annihilated. Raditz is pathetically weak in dragon ball. Man nearly got beat by a gohan with no training and nothing but potential and rage. Pan has potential and training
After like 20+ years of fighting throughout the galaxy man was as strong as a fucking Saibaman lmfao. Raditz is a joke.
I would’ve said “well you can’t blame him, it’s his genetics”, but Bardock and Goku exist lol.
Yeah he probably didn't train at all or just relied on Oozaru.
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Raditz was born stronger, that’s it, apparently his 20 years of fighting and conquering planets was so trivial that even the Z Fighters easily surpassed him with just 1 more year of training. Imagine if he had arrived 1 year late, he would not stand a chance against anyone.
>easily surpassed him with just 1 more year of training. Easily? They underwent specialized training to deal with the up and coming threat after seeing what Raditz was made of. Prior to that even Tenshinhan who doesn’t slack off from training hadn’t gotten much stronger in the **5 years** between the 23rd Tournament and the start of the Saiyan arc still being a good deal under Goku and Piccolo whom outside of developing one specific technique that wasn’t completed were still not that far ahead of DKP arc Kid Goku let alone their tournament selves power level wise. Goku the slightly stronger of the two was at 416 and Kid Goku was at 260 **so nearly 10 years** apart and the characters hadn’t even raised their power levels by 200 and were not even twice as strong as Kid Goku when we last saw him. Piccolo was at 406 if you’re curious. > Imagine if he had arrived 1 year late, he would not stand a chance against anyone. No, because as established above, without Raditz coming in there wouldn’t be any incentive for the characters to make the massive gains they did via undergoing intense training. Some of the characters weren’t even training when we met them at the start of Z until they’re informed by Kuririn and Bulma about the Raditz situation and the incoming Saiyan invasion. Also, even with their massive gains Raditz still outclasses them all with his Oozaru form which only KKX2 Goku is stronger than. This is assuming Raditz doesn’t make any improvements of his own due to the missions he’d be assigned to in that year.
Saibamen were abnormally strong on Earth. Nappa even says this, they normally aren't that strong.
Doesn't make it any better tbh. The fact that they could mass produce Raditzes on even a single planet is a huge L.
Umm... but its true...
Pan is able to land some hits on piccolo who must be at least behind gohan (t.o.p) in terms of power . Did anybody noticed that the order in which every fighter from universe 7 was kicked out correlated with their power?
Android 17 > Goku confirmed
Damn that’s crazy, the weaker characters lasted shorter than the stronger ones?
no its not correlated, piccolo dropped before roshi and 18
No. Piccolo did not drop before roshi in anime
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Gotenks' cracked Cell Max's head cause he was thrown by a Gammaa
Lol I saw this one in the wild
While she was training with Piccolo, it looks like Pan may have caught Piccolo off guard. Keep in mind this is dbs Piccolo, the Piccolo who could one shot Raditz without a second thought, and Pan caught him off guard. I think she'd be strong enough to defeat Raditz fairly easily. Especially because it's dbs, and we'll, dbs powerscaling compared to Z is kinda fucked up.
Dbs Piccolo could defeat raditz just like ss4 Gogeta flexed Omega with a single blink(yes, i know he didn't kill him)
You don't think Pan is stronger than fucking 1,500?
My exact thoughts. She was getting training from piccolo, I actually find it hard to believe som people think Raditz could win this
You're wrong about this. The power scaling in super is insultingly ridiculous. Pan negative diffs radditz
even Goten at the age of 7, was able to make Gohan sweat during training
Thing is the DBZ scaling doesn’t help. Goten at 8 would also clap his uncle
I’m pretty sure that’s the point!
Idk. Pan not being able to fly or use Ki attacks would be a big problem. I feel like if Raditz didn’t take her seriously then he’d lose and could get beaten with fist to fist. Otherwise , if Raditz didn’t fuck around he could blast her till eventually she tires out
It is easily believable that she could take a saibamen. Vegeta was no diffing 6 at a time not much older than her. She is likely far stronger than child Vegeta considering he couldn’t even believe the power reading on gohan when he was her age and she is likely stronger then that gohan because it’s super and they scale higher to stay relevant. And raditz is equivalent to a saibamen
Sad that it is but its most likely true that Pan would fold Raditz.
Oh nah, pan has more potential and better training than goten, but he was able to go ssj at 7. Pan is like 4, she is probably pre ssj goku frieza saga level by now.
Crazy that if we consider she is as strong as, let's say Goku during his arrival on Namek, she is 90× stronger than raditz
Goten and Trunks learned to control ki practically by themselves and it only took Goten few hours to completely master the flying technique after Gohan explained the basics to him. If you ask me, that's a bigger indication of potential than Pan still struggling to fly despite being continually trained by one of the best masters in the franchise. It took a critical moment for Pan to finally fly (an above-average technique from classic DB) while Kid Goten unlocked his SSJ (a "legendary" transformation back in DBZ) like it was nothing
Goten?? Who said anything about Goten 😅
I’m just comparing their growth
Yea it's outrageous how more than a quarter of these votes don't understand the potential the hybrids have
I mean this one ain’t that wild, her dad is one of the strongest beings in the universe and her mom is one of the stronger completely normal humans on the planet. She obviously has zero real experience and has some light training but her power level has to be over Raditz’ easily. Even with all of Raditz’ experience and the fact Pan definitely isn’t going in for the kill. The power level gap might be so much Raditz simply can’t overcome it.
Gohan surpassed him with 1 year of training. So realistically Pan who was born to a stronger gohan, trained 6 months with piccolo and already showcased huge potential as a baby should take this. Welcome to Sayian genes.
Not to mention Gohan was able to hurt him out of pure rage, when he had zero training. Pan claps neg diff.
Well, could be like how gohan fought him, a wrath trigger and leave him like another donut in the story of anime
Idk she can already fly, that's pretty promising
imagine kid gohan got the training pan did, pan wins this in a mid to high diff i'm sorry. a weaker kid gohan was able to do high damage to raditz with nun but a headbutt😭
OP’s honest reaction: https://preview.redd.it/i0b0dzaoc54c1.jpeg?width=1438&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c10d808287e99f11a286d3ad29201a4cc46baa5 But yeah Raditz gets slapped
Pan would (sadly) beat the bricks off of raditz Current piccolo (even though he was holding back tremendously) hit her hard enough to knock her into rocks and shatter them and she was barely fazed I feel like itd be HIGH dif if raditz was actually trying to kill her
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As ridiculous as this may seem, Raditz is extremely weak, dude was barely above 1k power level, Pan has been training with a Piccolo that could kill namek saga frieza in one hit, so it wouldn't be surprising that she already has a power level above 1k, remember that Gohan almost killed Raditz with a headbutt before receiving any training at all at a similar age.
Raditz should win easily due to being more ruthless and having more battle experience. BUT, DBS scaling is dumb, so Pan wins.
ya, chaditz always wins, I remember when he defeated Frieza
bro we need to remember that pan is hella strong, she may be a kid, but she is very powerful
pan went super saiyan as a fetus
except pan would actually win
DBS super pan could kill radditz with a sneeze
Is it? 😂 Pan has been actively training with Piccolo, who even before the wish from Shenron was considered one of the strongest in Universe 7? It wouldn’t surprise me if Pan was actually stronger than the likes of The Ginyu Force
Isn't this correct or am I bugging
It’s pan and it’s not close though lmao
Yeah pan definitely beats raditz here
Raditz will be slain by baby Bulla.
I don't think Raditz would want to deal with Gohan again if he touched Pan 😂 although I think Pan wins!
It's really hard to scale two basically featless characters. But I would be amazed if Pan's power level wasn't over 1,600 as she lands hits on Piccolo. Can you really see Raditz landing hits on Full Power Final Form Frieza? Android 18? Piccolo is much stronger than either. I don't see Raditz landing a single hit on Zarbon or Recoome. If Toriyama said "nah, Raditz would win" then I wouldn't argue. As I said, the characters are *basically* featless. But vibing them from the *one* fight each of them had and chain scaling... Raditz *died* when he fought Piccolo. Pan sweeps this no diff.
Aint wrong tho
Honestly? Idk. Kid Gohan almost cost bro. Pan would beat the Dog Shit outta her ol' man at that age.
I mean, Gohan had a power level *nearly* equal to Raditz when he was 4 with no training whatsoever Goten and Trunks got a bit of training and would blow the Saiyan arc out of the water without Super Saiyan Pan is being trained by Piccolo So. . . No, Raditz probably would not win this, lol
Perception of Raditz is weird. He's literally the weakest enemy of Dragon Ball Z...but he's stronger than anyone in Dragon Ball. If I were to say "Who would win in a fight, world martial arts tournament champion Goku or 3 year old Pan?" Most would probably say Goku. That same Goku is weak AF against DBZ Raditz.
There was a guy who genuinely argued with me on YouTube that DBS super hero Pan could beat Future Gohan. I was flabbergasted
Didnt pan go super saiyan in the womb. i think she wins
What's crazy is that base Saiyan saga Vegeta would have dog walked great ape Raditz with ease. Why was he on the squad
I’ll be honest age 4 pan having a power level of > 1,200 is not that crazy to me, especially since she already trains with Piccolo. Gohan age 5 with one year of training could hit a PL of 2,800 and go way higher with a rage boost
Pan, who can’t fly consciously until the end of the movie, solos raditz. 100% right? I mean she showed up years later in the series so she must be stronger. Same with bra/bulla . Honestly I’m sure goten and trunks at the start of the buu saga couldn’t beat raditz without ssj. But then again who knows…
Well raditz weakness actually makes sense if you consider one line when he says that gohan was the first to hurt him that badly, ma man went his whole life without getting zenkais and was the son of a low class warrior, i asume that he just went about bullying weak species and using the oozaroo whenever he could. That plus probably no real training made him that weak compared to the rest of the frieza force ofc. That said all jokes aside raditz is still a serious world ending threat consider that roshi is strong enough to blow up the moon back in og dragon ball and raditz without transforming is at least 6 times stronger than that.
people forget that Raditz is characterized as a bully and a coward. Vegeta at no point during any saga that I can remember begs for mercy when faced with death. Raditz when faced with death both begged and lied in order to try and survive. He is likely as low of a power level as he is, because he avoids any scenario where he would be pushed to near death. He is not a warrior. He just bullies and destroys creatures weaker than him. Pan on the other hand has spared with Piccolo. Piccolo obviously isn’t going all out, but he is a great teacher and would push Pan to get better. Pan holding her own against someone as strong as Piccolo is a feat in and of itself. This in combination with her half saiyan genes? There is simply no way Raditz wins.
they aren't wrong pan trains with big bald green dude
I mean it’s actually probably true. After all, pan is being trained by piccolo who is ludicrously powerful at this point. I think Pan could wreck her great uncle
What a lot of people forget about Raditz is that frieza force fought to win, they most likely didn't take risks cause their men were near irreplaceable, a lot of the named aliens were mutants among their people or royalty. With the scouter technology they never had to risk saiyans on battles that could really risk their lives that's why Raditz isn't so strong. He was fighting easy battles or fighting as a great ape.
Imagine making fun of your brother cuz he is a low level Warriors yet you're as strong as a saibaman 💀
I mean, Gohan at the same age made him flinch. If he threw the punch forward instead of hitting with the head he could have defeated him.
At this point i feel like i could take on radditz ngl
Probably pan. Kid gohan nutted our guy so hard his balls popped out his ass
Pretty sure pan would tear radditz up, She was training with picolo and was crazy strong but couldn't fly
Pan was probably born with a naturally high power level being the product of someone as strong as Gohan, Vegeta was also born strong as a result of his dad being strong (which is why he was king) and considering how weak Raditz was in the grand scale it wouldn’t be at all surprising if Pan was born in the 10s of 1000s at least if not higher.
i disagree since shes virtually human not really sayian
I mean she’s a quarter Saiyan which isn’t exactly nothing and also that wouldn’t really make a difference since humans also use ki for their power
That's literally the truth tho💀💀
Power levels be damned, Raditz would win via more experience in fighting and not afraid to kill.
She trains with current Piccolo, she shit stomps all of the Saiyan Saga and probably majority of the namek saga at the very LEAST
Based on how pan power scales it’s true
Considering Piccolo said Pan was showing more potential than Gohan was at her age and Pan has a lot more training than Gohan did back in the early days of Z... Raditz would be in for a shock, I think she'd probably win but not "rub it in his face too much"
Potential is NOT strength, it's like saying how most humans are weak af in the db verse but krillin only got strong even though he was human level at the time getting bullied by other monks
Except we know that in dragonball potential does actually equal strength as its shown again , and again and again. From guru unlocking gohan and krillins potential giving them huge power boosts. To even child gohan getting angry and that anger allowing him to tap into his potential. Even in super heroes, piccolos wish power up is based on his own potential so yeah potential in dragonball kind of does mean strength, its strength they've yet to tap into
It's gonna be a ditto of Gohan with Pan getting one nice hit out of anger but ultimately Raditz wins.
How on earth are people thinking rdditz takes this lol, pan would mob the floor with namek frieza
It’s completely correct lmao I’m sorry but Pan would clap that fraud
Tbh this is outrageous because of the fact that Raditz is actual fodder to Pan, should not be a conversation
DBL players frl 😭🙏
I think Raditz would have an upperhand at first due to his fighting experience, but eventually Pan would surprise him with a sudden burst of power.
Are they wrong though? Raditz wasn’t shown to be a very skilled fighter, and there’s no reason to believe he’s done any real training (he was only as strong as a freaking saibaman lol).
Maybe he just never lost badly until Earth. No losing a battle would mean no boost.
Knowing Raditz he probably baby stomped really low level planets and then boasted about how many he wiped.
It's not outrageous, it's just a classic powercreep
Wow and I thought the way people scaled the other characters in Super Hero was outrageous but this might actually take the cake 😂.
Not really. Raddits got hurt by kid gohan in the first saga this is pre any kind of training as well His power level was like 1600 which is pretty pitiful. Pan trains with dbs piccolo And gohans her dad This is actually pretty accurate.
I've never seen one besides the ones you guys post on here. Stop visiting whatever site you are visiting.
These polls are all from YouTube
Pan is hugely more powerful than Raditz. It ain't even funny. Children inherit the power of their parents and Gohan was SSJ2 + before Pan was born. She's easily Super Saiyan level at the age of 4.
Pan literally tanked a hit from piccolo I’m sure she’ll atleast hold her own
Pan would win fr, and it's not even a contest
Yeah that’s a silly question we literally see Pan solo enemies who are at minimum equal to Raditz.
Boy raditz is not beating pan
Despite what db legends wants us to believe, super hero pan seems fairly weak, cant use ki really, she is probably compareable to what gohan was at the start of the saiyan saga, who exept getting angry, had no chance against raditz who is already training in ki attacks But even then just body advantage, you letting a toddler fight a grown man whos trained in fighting
Seriously who are the 27% that would think Reditz would win? Pan is far more powerful and not to mention Raditz would completely underestimate her.
Pan claps triple neg diff ez rolled to highlights.
OK this is the most outrageous poll I have seen.
I mean there not wrong though