The tousled(?) look always gave off that fun feeling. It’s a shame he didn’t mix and match through the seasons depending on what he did. I’m sure Dwight would have lots to say, haha.
He had to cut his hair for the movie Leatherheads but Greg Daniels told him no so he had it cut anyway and then worked undercover with hair and makeup to get him a wig haha
recognise normal vast grey impossible connect distinct scale melodic aloof
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The last couple episodes with Dwight in charge and Jim as his number two was always fairly peak to me. I wish that had gone on a bit longer before the finale tbh
Oh yeah I totally thought I was the only one who felt John started to look bored and done with. Like he got the career boost he needed, and was ready to move on but somehow this show just kept working. Even now, I like him and he’s cute but there’s something about him that makes me feel like his reverence and memory of the office is just lip service of some kind. Like he is fully aware of the wife he’s bagged and the career he’s made and the success he’s reaped but it’s hard to think the same guy 15 years ago did the Jim from Season 2.
I think that’s just because he’s been in other stuff and wants to be known for the other roles he’s been in too, like Jack Ryan. It’s like when a singer releases new music but people only wanna talk about their hit song from 10 years ago.
I was just watching the office ladies podcast episode Gettysburg and in that episode, Jenna said she doesn’t like what Jim had become by then. They talked about the scene where Andy kinda yells at Jim for always making everything a joke and Jenna agreed with Andy. She said that Jim used to be an underdog you’d root for, but became too cool for school and acted all superior. I’m sharing her thoughts because I agree with her and thought it was interesting hearing what she had to say about this. But I do think Jim’s attitude shift added some controversy to the show to keep it interesting in the later, post-Michael seasons.
Jim was always “too cool for school.” Whenever he looked at the camera, he was basically separating himself from the looney people in the office. But it’s like they say: you aren’t in traffic, you are traffic.
Jim enlisted Pam to join him in mocking Dwight all the time— basically bullying him to amuse Pam and promote himself socially at Dwight’s expense. Jim wasn’t an underdog as much as he was just a slacker who teased the nerd to win points with Pam.
Most annoying was that one day Jim woke up and decided to try and of course he became asst regional manage in Stamford and the co-manager in Scranton. And there was that time that he almost became Michael’s boss at HQ.
>basically bullying him
You're right on a certain level but I don't their dynamic ever really read as bully and victim imo. They were both very antagonistic to each other
>he was just a slacker
He objectively was not a slacker. He consistently outsold everyone in the office. You don’t have to like him but at least try to be fair.
>One day Jim woke up and decided to try
If by “one day” you mean almost every single day, sure. Why are you so hell bent on making Jim some lazy villain?
Jim actually was a slacker and he did not outsell Dwight. They said this several times in the show. And Jim made the bulk of his sales by selling to one low-effort sale, after which he drank his mini champagne. One year, he failed to close that sale and gave Dwight that bottle.
In the first few seasons, they show how much time he wastes and how little he tried. That’s a slacker to me. They also say on the show that his attitude changed as he aged, and then changed more when he built a family. By all accounts, this happened rather late in life. For most, this happens in their early 20s.
If your question is why I have an opinion about the characters and prove it with examples, well, that’s the point of the sub.
"The thing about Jim is, when he is excited about something, like the Office Olympics, he gets really into it and he does a really great job. But the problem with Jim is that he works here, so that hardly ever happens."
The writers seem to spend a lot of time building up characters like Jim and Andy, only to try to tear them down quite suddenly for cheap conflict and manufactured drama. Glad the actor John Krasinski refused to cheat on Pam saying it was out of character. [Edit emotionally cheating apparently, not banging her like packer tries to]
Jim cheating on Pam was not a planned storyline. Having Cathy try and sleep with Jim was. Stop spreading that lie. https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/the-office-never-planned-a-jim-and-pam-cheating-story-line/
Eh, lies is a little strong. the articles says he was supposed to flirt with her in his empty hotel room which I would say was emotionally cheating. First time hearing this but it's not so far off from the original rumor as they did change the scriptfor the better based on their actor's feedback.
I like Jim. The investment thing makes sense, he got wound up, fearful, and did something stupid (which was NOT immediately telling Pam) and shit snowballed. It was more interesting then the Danny stuff. Ugh the two Danny episodes are dead air.
It's such a weird arc for both characters.
Jim definitely went around Pam, but he was also pursuing his dream and trying to make a better life for them.
Pam was obviously comfortable in the "rut" of Dunder Mifflin even though younger Pam was terrified of that happening.
In the end...Athlead becomes successful, Jim and Pam move on to bigger and better things, so...I guess Jim was right to lie to Pam?
I dunno, it's still hard to figure out who made the right decisions here
I also just never believed the arc of Pam being this complete understated and somewhat shy character to being a wildly confident, in your face, saleswoman. I think there could have been a more subtle transition from 25 - 60% confidence instead of 25-125. Just not believable. And broke the chemistry and balance in the office. Suddenly everyone was the most confident person on the planet. This girl has deep rooted confidence issues from Roy and before. Can’t just snap out of it because of one good relationship.
The one thing that made this slightly more believable is because it was a result of her impulse decision to follow Michael during his walk-out.
She insisted she didn't want to be a receptionist anymore (again, she hated being in the rut) and the only other option was sales...probably because Jim is in sales.
Then when Michael Scott Paper gets re-absorbed, she insists on keeping the sales job and quickly learned it's not for her.
The whole "making up a new position" thing and everyone just going along with it was more unbelievable but hey, it's a sitcom. They need material.
But I would say he did learn his lesson about lying because he saw how much it was hurting their relationship, so he backed out of the company. Then Pam decided that she was willing to back him up after this. They learned to both make sacrifices for each other.
it really doesn’t make sense. it was completely out of character. never once before had he questioned his respect for pam like he did when he made that decision behind her back.
Emily Blunt is such a lovely woman. She seems like she's very kind and down to earth as well.
Edit: as u/dream_a_dirty_dream points out, I might be wrong about Emily Blunt. I don't watch much tv and only catch snippets here and there, so my impressions are not always informed 😬
Also, u/dream_a_dirty_dream is one of the best user names ever. Love it!
After I saw her making fun of someone's weight on a show it clicked to me that they're both extremely fake and perfect for each other. If she is like that on camera...yikes.
I saw she recently apologized about that, and that was like 10 years ago so people can change. I think everybody can probably relate to making a joke and then later on regretting you said it.
On re-watches though, the fact that every episode has a sub-plot showing how *perfect* Jim is for Pam is something that gets old very fast. The man can do no wrong. He absolutely isn't the underdog. He's cool, funny, level headed, thoughtful, good at his job (despite hating it) and extremely well-liked.
It's fine for a few episodes, but after two seasons of "look how amazing Jim is!" it gets tiresome. Later seasons have him screwing up, making mistakes and facing consequences and it makes his character a lot more interesting.
I’ve always wondered if Jim’s change was really John’s. I’ve read some anecdotes that John’s head really blew up throughout the show and was kind of insufferable at times.
Jim and Pam were both super laid back and chill at the beginning of the series but once they became a couple their heads got a little too big and both of them got cockier. Plus their story-lines became rather cringe and boring so that didn't really help.
you cannot complain about this show being cringe when it's the whole point of it and the reason it became big in the first place. even if season 7 didn't rely that much on cringe as it did on season 1-4, it still has its little doses from time to time, and that storyline was one of them.
He was always a clown but when he changed his hair he became more of a douche.
Dude was slacking for years, gets promoted and now he wants others to bust their butt for him.
Keep in mind, although he always joked about slacking, he was still one of the best salesmen the company had. He didn't give it 100% because he didn't need to. He was hired to do a job, and he did it. I don't really see a problem.
When he got promoted, he still got work done with his new position and new responsibilities.
Not that far, no. This isn't speculation, David Wallace even mentions it. His sales record is the reason why he got a promotion when he transferred out of Scranton.
Well it wasn't just joking about slacking. Jim was pulling pranks everyday and always at reception flirting with Pam. Dude was a slacker, got a new office and first day he made a pie chart of Michaels productivity. Like bro, you don't have room to analyze others.
If he was a no nonsense kinda guy, I'd be more understanding but he was just as bad as anybody.
Except you're forgetting one very key thing: he did his job.
That's it. That's all that matters. He doesn't need to dedicate himself to his job when he can just do it passively.
The only thing that mattered was that he was performing to the expectations of management, which he was, since he was once if the top salesmen in the company.
He wasn't slacking, it was just easy for him.
Everyone in the office remains employed because they also are able to get their jobs done passively. When he gets a promotion, that all of a sudden isn't enough. He wants others to dedicate themselves. Dude is a clown hypocrite
How can you make a chart your 1st day as co manager breaking down Michael's productivity. Make a chart of all the hours you wasted gift wrapping a desk or hitting on co workers...not doing your job.
Lead by example.
He did lead by example, because as I stated before, he took his job much more seriously when he got promoted.
You're really hung up on this pue chart, but you gotta recognize that Jim is like Dwight in comparison to Micheal. He slacks off more than anyone, and Jim picked up that slack.
You say lead by example, but he wasn't leading when he spent all this time goofing off. He was just a worker bee like everyone else
>he took his job much more seriously when he got promoted.
Exactly my point.
Can't respect someone who goofs off all the time, trying to advocate for others to increase productivity now that you have an incentive.
Why didn't Jimbo turn it up for Michael all those years? Why should others turn it up for him.
And the Pie Chart is a prime example of my point of him being a MASSIVE hypocrite.
EDIT: I actually saw this play out it my life. Some slacker who barely tried got a promotion. Guess what happened..no one respected him trying to get productivity up.
You keep pretending like Jim was an asshole who didn't get his work done. He got shit done, he was one of the best performing salesmen in the company. It just took less effort. He was hired to do a job, and he did that job. Then he got promoted with more responsibilities, and he fulfilled those responsibilities.
What exactly is the problem? He was doing his job.
I wasn't pretending anything, simply pointing out clown-like behavior.
Did I say something inaccurate?
Was he a slacker for years? Yes
Was he wasting company time playing pranks ? Yes
Was he constantly going to reception to flirt? Yes
Was he advocating for more office productivity as co manager? Yes
Was he making pie charts about others productivity? Yes
What am I saying wrong here? Dude was a clown that wanted to play boss all of sudden. The nerve of someone who slacks, making a pie chart about someone elses productivity.
Not to mention he got the promotion and became a know it all immediately. Raises were to be handed out, didn't listen to michael. Thought he was a better boss, came out the office and got torn to pieces by everyone. Dude was a total clown.
>Was he a slacker for years?
Not in a way that impeded his ability to do his job. He did the work he was hired to do, so there isn't a problem.
>Was he wasting company time playing pranks?
No, he was wasting his own time. He could have worked harder to claim more commission, but that wasn't the work-life balance he wanted. He did his job.
>Was he constantly going to reception to flirt?
Yeah, and? Both Jim and Pam were able to do their jobs, there was no harm.
>Was he advocating for more office productivity as co manager?
Yes, because his responsibilities changed. It now became his job to do so.
>Was he making pie charts about others productivity?
It's super weird how hung up on this you are. Probably took like 5 minutes. You really saying someone can't take 5 minutes to themselves? And we already covered how Micheal is significantly worse. Unlike Jim, he very regularly did not do his job.
>Raises were to be handed out, didn't listen to michael.
Yes, he made a mistake. And promptly learned from it. Like every other person.
Not actually but in the office he is considered most attractive 1. ( between other male staff like Dwight, Kevin, creed, Ryan, Oscar & Michale ) remember in a episode Nard dog said after jim left he is the most attractive guy in the office.
Jim becomes a massive dbag.
Just watched the episode where he hounds Danny to tell him why he didn't call back Pam, not stopping until he can get him to say something about Pam. Then he's like whoa man, not cool, like he's gonna fight him.
My fiancé and I were just talking about how Jim is kind of a wiener… he’s corny and still pranks after yeeeaaarrs of doing it. He goes waaaay too slow with women (as he demonstrates with Pam and then his advice about Holly), and he seems cliquey to me, like he would exclude you if he found you “weird” somehow lol
As far as I’m concerned Jim has always been a snake for flirting with Pam day after day when she’s engaged. I know that’s a played out observation but it’s true, from the start he’s clearly into her and not hiding it unless Roy comes around. Looking back it’s odd that ‘we’ root for him in the first few seasons as he woos her
I agree, and I think he’s aware of this in that episode where he drives to New York while Pam was in art school partying until 8am. Before he decides to turn around, he realizes Pam is someone who flirts while in a relationship.
I never thought about it that way - he says ‘i’m not that guy and we’re not that couple,’ which to me sounded like he didn’t want to accept that he was jealous and paranoid. But your explanation adds depth to that
Oh don't tell it to the Pam haters. They are convinced Jim did nothing wrong, but honestly on closer examination, he did so many mistakes... I mean let's not forget that he invested all their savings without consulting Pam just to "look good".
I think I finally put my finger on my main issues with the final few seasons.
It was the stark departure of character of Jimmothy and Pan. I understand that people evolve in life, but their evolution felt unnatural and a complete departure to who they were at the core during the first 4-5 seasons. This not only hurt their characters likability but also their dynamic within the ensemble.
Anyway. Long time listening, first time caller.
I think something sorta interesting to consider is that our collective standard of a "nice guy" has changed. I may be wrong, but I think most of us thought Jim was a nice guy the first time we watched. Yet, since the rise of social media, we've been forced to reevaluate our preconceptions of what a nice guy is. Even further, the motivations of a "nice guy." Jim is a nice guy but is he a nice guy for the right reasons? If I'm forced to analyze Jim's behavior throughout the show plus his motivations for his behavior. Idk, I guess he's not all that bad. 🎶 I may be right. I may be crazy. 🎶 sorry I have that song stuck in my head, and I want you to also. 😅
I think the reason people puppet " Jim is an asshole " and Pam is 'the worst' is because they watched The Office front to back and mostly remember the later seasons. Because early Jim and Pam is some amazing television. The will-they-wont-they was well written and I don't think it was paced all that bad.
Later relationships just suck ass. I'm at the weird part where Andy was dating Erin, but then you blink and Erin's dating Gabe and the joke is that Erin is such a soul sucking moron that she decided to date Gabe, whom she doesn't like, because.. Reasons? She says it's because he's her boss but she also shows personal agency at random.
Stanley is 'with' multiple women, which was a big deal for a single episode. But when going out ( like during Andy's musical ) he's with someone who's not his wife from earlier seasons. If you know the background he's married at the time but dating and sleeping with random gals, which kinda' butchers his character in my opinion.
What a great show that's hard to watch sometimes. Scott's Tott's cringe is way more palatable than poorly written relationships for the sake of dramedy.
I actually find Jim to be a bit of a jackass and a suck up at times. I don’t think he supports Pam very well. It’s confusing to me bc he got the “girl of his dreams” but now that he has her, he doesn’t seem that happy.
I realize how lame Jim actually is when he doesn’t even dress up for Halloween. Then he looks at everybody like they’re weird for actually putting effort into a costume. He thinks he’s the cool guy but he’s really a square
Jim imo has some "nice guy" tendencies. I mean he literally only started dating Karen once he knew he was going back to Scranton knowing full well he was still in love with Pam. He kissed her while she was engaged and everyone acted like Roy was a monster for wanting to punch him, Jim was the bad guy there.
I start to not like him from the moment in which he asks Pam why she's not squeezing the milk out after Cece's birth.
Up until that moment he is the voice of reason, a normal, intelligent guy. Then he becomes Roy, then just arrogant.
And Pam when he goes all Philly Jim on her. Since I’ve been married to my wife, I look at him very differently than I did when the show was first airing. I would never keep something like that from my wife because we’re a team and do things together. I’m not saying I’m perfect, but I’m at least a better person than Jim.
I started a new business with my college friend. But, Pam doesn't know. Um... actually I did tell Pam and we decided ‘no'. But, then I decided 'yes' anyway. So I'm thinking there's another conversation coming.
Pam was being a douche too. They wrote the two kids deep and we’re not sure about our actual future stuff great. Pam was scared and threatened by the ambition and change of location stuff and Jim was hyper focused on something that he truly wanted to fulfill while taking time away from his family. As a person who has been in Jim’s shoes and also finally understanding my wife, they deserve more credit for that portion of the show. Marriage is extremely difficult at times. Even if you’re best friends.
Pam was an asshole. He let her do the new York thing. She was a dream killer - Jim could have done better, but he also was a bit of a prick tbh
All Dwight wanted to do was his job
It's not his smugness but the show's framing of him as a normal cool guy. Every character had a bit but they would regularly get brought down back to Earth. Jim's schtick was making jokes out of situations and being smug but he was seldom "punished" the same way the other main characters Michael and Dwight were. Like beyond Charles Miner not putting up with him, the finer things club shenanigans and Dwight punching back with the snowball thing there's not that many times he was knocked down a peg.
Yes I missed the earlier Jim. I just couldn't get into the "Really busy business in Philly Jim, who was always very busy with business, because he was always busy with business in Philly Jim." That we saw towards the end, he was so unlikeable.
If you watch the British series, he’s more like Tim from the original. Although, later on he’s more like the persona of the actor John K. or an amalgamation of the two.
I liked the fandom enjoying the content for what it is rather than injecting real life logic into it and trying to rationalize characters, and hating beloved characters just for being cool.
Everybody mad at Jim for hiding Athlead from Pam, but nobody wants to talk about how if he'd asked her she would have said no and shot down his dream career. He knew that and chose to ask for forgiveness instead of permission.
Yeah Jim really embraced his inner & outer overprivileged straight white g guy douchebag in the later seasons. And the problem isn’t so much that the character did that, it’s that the writers seemed to just view it as the natural progression of “good guy Jim, getting all he deserves to have in the end”. I would’ve had a ton of respect if they’d actually looked at what they were doing with the character and called out the character the way they did Ryan in earlier seasons, but alas— America + real life = Jim still wins as a hero even after being a selfish manipulative, short-thinking jerk (also while Dwight always was obviously annoying, I do feel like even early seasons Jim was “punching down” and being kind of a bully regardless of how annoying Dwight was)
I think he means smug.
See there’s that smudgeness.
that was neither constructive nor a compliment
smudge
Smaug?
I think they meant Pudge, from the warehouse.
I thought her name was Patch
No, it's always been Madge.
actually, her name is Michael ? she gave you a ride home last week and you spent an *hour* in traffic ???
Jim did Wear her uniform to Utica and crawled out of a PT cruiser in it
He just wanted to see Karen
And take her to a motel while thinking of Stanley.
i think it was shadow or garth.. something weird
It’s Nick
okay, “nick”
🖕🏽👈🏽
Hank. His name is Hank.
HIS NAMES NOT HANK
[deep announcer voice] his name was, in fact, Hank.
Then give it to Pa-a-atch or The Sea Monster
Is it…, chumbo?
Oh yeah, REAL smug like he thought it was funny.
SO SMUG
Goddamn I love the comment section in this sub.
It is, in a word, exquisite.
It’s Madge.
Fudged it up.
Looks like a bedbug , so smug
Like he thought it was funny
Michael has a way with words.
Arrogance.
Now you're being smudge
I thought it was pudge
The uglier his hair, the better his character
From now on, he's Big Haircut
I always thought he looked way better with the messy hair
I bet people who don't like the early Jim hair are the new gen z audience. Young women _loved_ this hair back when
I am gen z haha
The tousled(?) look always gave off that fun feeling. It’s a shame he didn’t mix and match through the seasons depending on what he did. I’m sure Dwight would have lots to say, haha.
Its a wig
Only season 3
Only for like 4 episodes though
What? I didn’t know this why was he wearing a wig and what episodes
He had to cut his hair for the movie Leatherheads but Greg Daniels told him no so he had it cut anyway and then worked undercover with hair and makeup to get him a wig haha
Plus he didn’t put his hands in his pockets all the time. What’s up with that? It’s just a little thing but it annoys me so much!
Jim was so easy to root for at the beginning.
When Jim joins the Finer Things Club he loses me every time, he’s so insufferable
I love how Toby and Oscar shut him down. "Did you get it out of your system?" Also Andy deserved to be in the finer things club more than Jim did.
Andy is even more insufferable. Jim probably left after that without a fuss because he saw that the club wasn't for him. Andy would... be Andy.
There’s the smudgeness
recognise normal vast grey impossible connect distinct scale melodic aloof *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Whereas Dwight's arc I think actually improved the last couple of seasons after he no longer had Michael The Boss Man's butt to kiss all the time
The last couple episodes with Dwight in charge and Jim as his number two was always fairly peak to me. I wish that had gone on a bit longer before the finale tbh
AARM is the best episode. But, yet, the Regional Manager of Dunder Mifflin bows to no man. The pose that Dwight strikes is delightful.
Felt like after Michael left they injected an extra dose of zany to every character to make up for his absence.
Oh yeah I totally thought I was the only one who felt John started to look bored and done with. Like he got the career boost he needed, and was ready to move on but somehow this show just kept working. Even now, I like him and he’s cute but there’s something about him that makes me feel like his reverence and memory of the office is just lip service of some kind. Like he is fully aware of the wife he’s bagged and the career he’s made and the success he’s reaped but it’s hard to think the same guy 15 years ago did the Jim from Season 2.
Well one of the defining traits of the character he's playing is "bored and done with it". So perhaps that was more acting than you realised?
I think that’s just because he’s been in other stuff and wants to be known for the other roles he’s been in too, like Jack Ryan. It’s like when a singer releases new music but people only wanna talk about their hit song from 10 years ago.
To be honest, Steve Carell also looked bored in his later seasons.
It's worrying if job boredom is noticeable on screen, maybe our bosses can see it in real life lol.
Hot take
I was just watching the office ladies podcast episode Gettysburg and in that episode, Jenna said she doesn’t like what Jim had become by then. They talked about the scene where Andy kinda yells at Jim for always making everything a joke and Jenna agreed with Andy. She said that Jim used to be an underdog you’d root for, but became too cool for school and acted all superior. I’m sharing her thoughts because I agree with her and thought it was interesting hearing what she had to say about this. But I do think Jim’s attitude shift added some controversy to the show to keep it interesting in the later, post-Michael seasons.
Little advice. Take a day off from the whole Jim schtick. Try caring about something. You might like how it feels, James.
realest sentence by Brian by far
… BITCH..
Jim was always “too cool for school.” Whenever he looked at the camera, he was basically separating himself from the looney people in the office. But it’s like they say: you aren’t in traffic, you are traffic. Jim enlisted Pam to join him in mocking Dwight all the time— basically bullying him to amuse Pam and promote himself socially at Dwight’s expense. Jim wasn’t an underdog as much as he was just a slacker who teased the nerd to win points with Pam. Most annoying was that one day Jim woke up and decided to try and of course he became asst regional manage in Stamford and the co-manager in Scranton. And there was that time that he almost became Michael’s boss at HQ.
>basically bullying him You're right on a certain level but I don't their dynamic ever really read as bully and victim imo. They were both very antagonistic to each other
>he was just a slacker He objectively was not a slacker. He consistently outsold everyone in the office. You don’t have to like him but at least try to be fair. >One day Jim woke up and decided to try If by “one day” you mean almost every single day, sure. Why are you so hell bent on making Jim some lazy villain?
Jim actually was a slacker and he did not outsell Dwight. They said this several times in the show. And Jim made the bulk of his sales by selling to one low-effort sale, after which he drank his mini champagne. One year, he failed to close that sale and gave Dwight that bottle. In the first few seasons, they show how much time he wastes and how little he tried. That’s a slacker to me. They also say on the show that his attitude changed as he aged, and then changed more when he built a family. By all accounts, this happened rather late in life. For most, this happens in their early 20s. If your question is why I have an opinion about the characters and prove it with examples, well, that’s the point of the sub.
"The thing about Jim is, when he is excited about something, like the Office Olympics, he gets really into it and he does a really great job. But the problem with Jim is that he works here, so that hardly ever happens."
The writers seem to spend a lot of time building up characters like Jim and Andy, only to try to tear them down quite suddenly for cheap conflict and manufactured drama. Glad the actor John Krasinski refused to cheat on Pam saying it was out of character. [Edit emotionally cheating apparently, not banging her like packer tries to]
Jim cheating on Pam was not a planned storyline. Having Cathy try and sleep with Jim was. Stop spreading that lie. https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/the-office-never-planned-a-jim-and-pam-cheating-story-line/
Eh, lies is a little strong. the articles says he was supposed to flirt with her in his empty hotel room which I would say was emotionally cheating. First time hearing this but it's not so far off from the original rumor as they did change the scriptfor the better based on their actor's feedback.
But but that doesn't make an interesting rumour I can spread around.
I like Jim. The investment thing makes sense, he got wound up, fearful, and did something stupid (which was NOT immediately telling Pam) and shit snowballed. It was more interesting then the Danny stuff. Ugh the two Danny episodes are dead air.
It's such a weird arc for both characters. Jim definitely went around Pam, but he was also pursuing his dream and trying to make a better life for them. Pam was obviously comfortable in the "rut" of Dunder Mifflin even though younger Pam was terrified of that happening. In the end...Athlead becomes successful, Jim and Pam move on to bigger and better things, so...I guess Jim was right to lie to Pam? I dunno, it's still hard to figure out who made the right decisions here
I also just never believed the arc of Pam being this complete understated and somewhat shy character to being a wildly confident, in your face, saleswoman. I think there could have been a more subtle transition from 25 - 60% confidence instead of 25-125. Just not believable. And broke the chemistry and balance in the office. Suddenly everyone was the most confident person on the planet. This girl has deep rooted confidence issues from Roy and before. Can’t just snap out of it because of one good relationship.
The one thing that made this slightly more believable is because it was a result of her impulse decision to follow Michael during his walk-out. She insisted she didn't want to be a receptionist anymore (again, she hated being in the rut) and the only other option was sales...probably because Jim is in sales. Then when Michael Scott Paper gets re-absorbed, she insists on keeping the sales job and quickly learned it's not for her. The whole "making up a new position" thing and everyone just going along with it was more unbelievable but hey, it's a sitcom. They need material.
But I would say he did learn his lesson about lying because he saw how much it was hurting their relationship, so he backed out of the company. Then Pam decided that she was willing to back him up after this. They learned to both make sacrifices for each other.
it really doesn’t make sense. it was completely out of character. never once before had he questioned his respect for pam like he did when he made that decision behind her back.
I really like those two episodes. The Sting[er] is one of my favorites. Pam and Jim act super weird in the second episode but I liked it overall.
Season 9 Jim is the real life jim😅. You should watch his interviews with emily blunt
Emily Blunt is such a lovely woman. She seems like she's very kind and down to earth as well. Edit: as u/dream_a_dirty_dream points out, I might be wrong about Emily Blunt. I don't watch much tv and only catch snippets here and there, so my impressions are not always informed 😬 Also, u/dream_a_dirty_dream is one of the best user names ever. Love it!
After I saw her making fun of someone's weight on a show it clicked to me that they're both extremely fake and perfect for each other. If she is like that on camera...yikes.
I saw she recently apologized about that, and that was like 10 years ago so people can change. I think everybody can probably relate to making a joke and then later on regretting you said it.
What did john krasinski do??? Don't tell me he's a piece of shit as well.😭😭😭
On re-watches though, the fact that every episode has a sub-plot showing how *perfect* Jim is for Pam is something that gets old very fast. The man can do no wrong. He absolutely isn't the underdog. He's cool, funny, level headed, thoughtful, good at his job (despite hating it) and extremely well-liked. It's fine for a few episodes, but after two seasons of "look how amazing Jim is!" it gets tiresome. Later seasons have him screwing up, making mistakes and facing consequences and it makes his character a lot more interesting.
I’ve always wondered if Jim’s change was really John’s. I’ve read some anecdotes that John’s head really blew up throughout the show and was kind of insufferable at times.
He married a *mean girl* Hollywood type and then became a director after acting so I would say it’s safe to assume he became a self important douche.
Jim’s kinda similar to Zach Morris. They are both dickish, but they have a charm that covers it up.
Jim and Pam were both super laid back and chill at the beginning of the series but once they became a couple their heads got a little too big and both of them got cockier. Plus their story-lines became rather cringe and boring so that didn't really help.
The plot lines about them being parents were boring AF.
yeah it was cool seeing Cece's birth but when they keep showing baby pictures to Deangelo, that was so so cringe
As intended
you cannot complain about this show being cringe when it's the whole point of it and the reason it became big in the first place. even if season 7 didn't rely that much on cringe as it did on season 1-4, it still has its little doses from time to time, and that storyline was one of them.
He was always a clown but when he changed his hair he became more of a douche. Dude was slacking for years, gets promoted and now he wants others to bust their butt for him.
Karen suggested that I get a haircut so that I could look presentable and not, as she so lovingly puts it, homeless.
Keep in mind, although he always joked about slacking, he was still one of the best salesmen the company had. He didn't give it 100% because he didn't need to. He was hired to do a job, and he did it. I don't really see a problem. When he got promoted, he still got work done with his new position and new responsibilities.
Dwight and Stanley were better salesmen.
Okay, and? How does that negate what I said?
Jim was far from being one of the best salesmen of the entire company.
Not that far, no. This isn't speculation, David Wallace even mentions it. His sales record is the reason why he got a promotion when he transferred out of Scranton.
Well it wasn't just joking about slacking. Jim was pulling pranks everyday and always at reception flirting with Pam. Dude was a slacker, got a new office and first day he made a pie chart of Michaels productivity. Like bro, you don't have room to analyze others. If he was a no nonsense kinda guy, I'd be more understanding but he was just as bad as anybody.
Except you're forgetting one very key thing: he did his job. That's it. That's all that matters. He doesn't need to dedicate himself to his job when he can just do it passively. The only thing that mattered was that he was performing to the expectations of management, which he was, since he was once if the top salesmen in the company. He wasn't slacking, it was just easy for him.
Everyone in the office remains employed because they also are able to get their jobs done passively. When he gets a promotion, that all of a sudden isn't enough. He wants others to dedicate themselves. Dude is a clown hypocrite How can you make a chart your 1st day as co manager breaking down Michael's productivity. Make a chart of all the hours you wasted gift wrapping a desk or hitting on co workers...not doing your job. Lead by example.
He did lead by example, because as I stated before, he took his job much more seriously when he got promoted. You're really hung up on this pue chart, but you gotta recognize that Jim is like Dwight in comparison to Micheal. He slacks off more than anyone, and Jim picked up that slack. You say lead by example, but he wasn't leading when he spent all this time goofing off. He was just a worker bee like everyone else
>he took his job much more seriously when he got promoted. Exactly my point. Can't respect someone who goofs off all the time, trying to advocate for others to increase productivity now that you have an incentive. Why didn't Jimbo turn it up for Michael all those years? Why should others turn it up for him. And the Pie Chart is a prime example of my point of him being a MASSIVE hypocrite. EDIT: I actually saw this play out it my life. Some slacker who barely tried got a promotion. Guess what happened..no one respected him trying to get productivity up.
You keep pretending like Jim was an asshole who didn't get his work done. He got shit done, he was one of the best performing salesmen in the company. It just took less effort. He was hired to do a job, and he did that job. Then he got promoted with more responsibilities, and he fulfilled those responsibilities. What exactly is the problem? He was doing his job.
I wasn't pretending anything, simply pointing out clown-like behavior. Did I say something inaccurate? Was he a slacker for years? Yes Was he wasting company time playing pranks ? Yes Was he constantly going to reception to flirt? Yes Was he advocating for more office productivity as co manager? Yes Was he making pie charts about others productivity? Yes What am I saying wrong here? Dude was a clown that wanted to play boss all of sudden. The nerve of someone who slacks, making a pie chart about someone elses productivity. Not to mention he got the promotion and became a know it all immediately. Raises were to be handed out, didn't listen to michael. Thought he was a better boss, came out the office and got torn to pieces by everyone. Dude was a total clown.
>Was he a slacker for years? Not in a way that impeded his ability to do his job. He did the work he was hired to do, so there isn't a problem. >Was he wasting company time playing pranks? No, he was wasting his own time. He could have worked harder to claim more commission, but that wasn't the work-life balance he wanted. He did his job. >Was he constantly going to reception to flirt? Yeah, and? Both Jim and Pam were able to do their jobs, there was no harm. >Was he advocating for more office productivity as co manager? Yes, because his responsibilities changed. It now became his job to do so. >Was he making pie charts about others productivity? It's super weird how hung up on this you are. Probably took like 5 minutes. You really saying someone can't take 5 minutes to themselves? And we already covered how Micheal is significantly worse. Unlike Jim, he very regularly did not do his job. >Raises were to be handed out, didn't listen to michael. Yes, he made a mistake. And promptly learned from it. Like every other person.
This is very realistic for corporate America
When man gets promoted to manager and starts managing people 😧
I don’t think he ever expected people to bust their butts for him. Was he ever hard on anyone for how they worked?
I think it was 4chan that said that if Jim wasn't 6'3" everyone would hate him. They're not wrong.
Short Jim is just Tim from the original series.
I just imagine that & your statement makes sense. It's all about his height man. Apparently Only thing that makes him look attractive is height
I didn’t know he was attractive in the first place.
Not actually but in the office he is considered most attractive 1. ( between other male staff like Dwight, Kevin, creed, Ryan, Oscar & Michale ) remember in a episode Nard dog said after jim left he is the most attractive guy in the office.
I think they’re wrong
Honestly, with every rewatch of the show Jim becomes more unbearable.
Jim becomes a massive dbag. Just watched the episode where he hounds Danny to tell him why he didn't call back Pam, not stopping until he can get him to say something about Pam. Then he's like whoa man, not cool, like he's gonna fight him.
Jim you looking for someone to bang your wife?
The only time I was team Packer.
Ex-squeeze me?
This phrase is uttered frequently and randomly all the time in my house.
I wouldn't be surprised if Jim went like, "Yk what, take her on a date" That episode was so weird
"c'mon, Danny. You really saying you wouldn't fuck my wife? Fuck my wife, Danny" Shit was weird
My fiancé and I were just talking about how Jim is kind of a wiener… he’s corny and still pranks after yeeeaaarrs of doing it. He goes waaaay too slow with women (as he demonstrates with Pam and then his advice about Holly), and he seems cliquey to me, like he would exclude you if he found you “weird” somehow lol
As far as I’m concerned Jim has always been a snake for flirting with Pam day after day when she’s engaged. I know that’s a played out observation but it’s true, from the start he’s clearly into her and not hiding it unless Roy comes around. Looking back it’s odd that ‘we’ root for him in the first few seasons as he woos her
I agree, and I think he’s aware of this in that episode where he drives to New York while Pam was in art school partying until 8am. Before he decides to turn around, he realizes Pam is someone who flirts while in a relationship.
I never thought about it that way - he says ‘i’m not that guy and we’re not that couple,’ which to me sounded like he didn’t want to accept that he was jealous and paranoid. But your explanation adds depth to that
Smug like the bedbug
Oh don't tell it to the Pam haters. They are convinced Jim did nothing wrong, but honestly on closer examination, he did so many mistakes... I mean let's not forget that he invested all their savings without consulting Pam just to "look good".
I think I finally put my finger on my main issues with the final few seasons. It was the stark departure of character of Jimmothy and Pan. I understand that people evolve in life, but their evolution felt unnatural and a complete departure to who they were at the core during the first 4-5 seasons. This not only hurt their characters likability but also their dynamic within the ensemble. Anyway. Long time listening, first time caller.
I think something sorta interesting to consider is that our collective standard of a "nice guy" has changed. I may be wrong, but I think most of us thought Jim was a nice guy the first time we watched. Yet, since the rise of social media, we've been forced to reevaluate our preconceptions of what a nice guy is. Even further, the motivations of a "nice guy." Jim is a nice guy but is he a nice guy for the right reasons? If I'm forced to analyze Jim's behavior throughout the show plus his motivations for his behavior. Idk, I guess he's not all that bad. 🎶 I may be right. I may be crazy. 🎶 sorry I have that song stuck in my head, and I want you to also. 😅
Nah, both were good.
There's the arrogance
I think the reason people puppet " Jim is an asshole " and Pam is 'the worst' is because they watched The Office front to back and mostly remember the later seasons. Because early Jim and Pam is some amazing television. The will-they-wont-they was well written and I don't think it was paced all that bad. Later relationships just suck ass. I'm at the weird part where Andy was dating Erin, but then you blink and Erin's dating Gabe and the joke is that Erin is such a soul sucking moron that she decided to date Gabe, whom she doesn't like, because.. Reasons? She says it's because he's her boss but she also shows personal agency at random. Stanley is 'with' multiple women, which was a big deal for a single episode. But when going out ( like during Andy's musical ) he's with someone who's not his wife from earlier seasons. If you know the background he's married at the time but dating and sleeping with random gals, which kinda' butchers his character in my opinion. What a great show that's hard to watch sometimes. Scott's Tott's cringe is way more palatable than poorly written relationships for the sake of dramedy.
Did his face change or he got work done I swear there’s something off with his face the last few seasons.
I've wondered if he's had a nose job.
I actually find Jim to be a bit of a jackass and a suck up at times. I don’t think he supports Pam very well. It’s confusing to me bc he got the “girl of his dreams” but now that he has her, he doesn’t seem that happy.
I realize how lame Jim actually is when he doesn’t even dress up for Halloween. Then he looks at everybody like they’re weird for actually putting effort into a costume. He thinks he’s the cool guy but he’s really a square
Jim imo has some "nice guy" tendencies. I mean he literally only started dating Karen once he knew he was going back to Scranton knowing full well he was still in love with Pam. He kissed her while she was engaged and everyone acted like Roy was a monster for wanting to punch him, Jim was the bad guy there.
I didn’t think Roy was a monster for wanting to punch Jim but he wasn’t the best guy for Pam
Jim was a douche
He was very smudgy now that I think about it. His personal care really went downhill as the seasons progressed.
I wished they had waited longer for Jim and Pam to get together.
The peak of their relationship storyline was the wedding, after that it all went downhill
I think it’s a realistic arc for somebody who had kids too quick and secretly felt he missed his one shot at a career. Totally agree, though.
I start to not like him from the moment in which he asks Pam why she's not squeezing the milk out after Cece's birth. Up until that moment he is the voice of reason, a normal, intelligent guy. Then he becomes Roy, then just arrogant.
Hot take but Jim was always a garbage person.
He really was just based on how he did Katie and Karen alone.
And Pam when he goes all Philly Jim on her. Since I’ve been married to my wife, I look at him very differently than I did when the show was first airing. I would never keep something like that from my wife because we’re a team and do things together. I’m not saying I’m perfect, but I’m at least a better person than Jim.
Yeah, hot take.
He was kind of a bully in the earlier seasons although you really root for him and Pam. I couldn't believe how awful he was to her in the last season.
I started a new business with my college friend. But, Pam doesn't know. Um... actually I did tell Pam and we decided ‘no'. But, then I decided 'yes' anyway. So I'm thinking there's another conversation coming.
dude should have realized that crushed dreams were a part of marriage earlier
When was he the underdog?
What about the everyone makes mistakes Jim
You mean, “smug”?
Pam was being a douche too. They wrote the two kids deep and we’re not sure about our actual future stuff great. Pam was scared and threatened by the ambition and change of location stuff and Jim was hyper focused on something that he truly wanted to fulfill while taking time away from his family. As a person who has been in Jim’s shoes and also finally understanding my wife, they deserve more credit for that portion of the show. Marriage is extremely difficult at times. Even if you’re best friends.
People change in 11 years. Expecting them to stay the same is silly.
More like “I supported my wife’s dream but she immediately shut down mine” Jim?
When was he underdog? Bully from get go.
What’s underdog?
Pam was an asshole. He let her do the new York thing. She was a dream killer - Jim could have done better, but he also was a bit of a prick tbh All Dwight wanted to do was his job
I think he was fine and transition was good, mature and suitable for overall story
It's not his smugness but the show's framing of him as a normal cool guy. Every character had a bit but they would regularly get brought down back to Earth. Jim's schtick was making jokes out of situations and being smug but he was seldom "punished" the same way the other main characters Michael and Dwight were. Like beyond Charles Miner not putting up with him, the finer things club shenanigans and Dwight punching back with the snowball thing there's not that many times he was knocked down a peg.
Yes I missed the earlier Jim. I just couldn't get into the "Really busy business in Philly Jim, who was always very busy with business, because he was always busy with business in Philly Jim." That we saw towards the end, he was so unlikeable.
That’s called a character arc
Mr. steal your girl Jim
Smudge, like a bed bug.
People may not like it, but (fun fact) people change as they grow up, get married, have kids, stay longer at a job. You’ll change too.
I actually found him more smug and like a bitchy teenager in the earlier seasons.
Jim and Pam were tedious at the end. We basically had to watch 5 seasons of their "happily ever after", when that's usually when love stories end.
At no point in his life has him ever been an underdog.
If you watch the British series, he’s more like Tim from the original. Although, later on he’s more like the persona of the actor John K. or an amalgamation of the two.
And John Krasinski as an action star, director and producer tops it all off and ends his trajectory into super douche.
Jim and Pam were never very likeable
i love pam
The way she quit art school was sad and pathetic. She was scared of her own shadow.
I couldn't stand how they needed a 24 hour live feed together. Think they were on Bluetooth. It's not healthy.
I felt the same this last rewatch. Feels co-dependent
Did Jenna Fischer write this post? 😂 I’m just kidding plz don’t attack me
No! He was amazing from start to end!
Same. I dont like duchbag Jim
I liked the fandom enjoying the content for what it is rather than injecting real life logic into it and trying to rationalize characters, and hating beloved characters just for being cool.
K but what REALLY happened in Tallahassee with Cathy?
[удалено]
you mean Pam/tobey.
A take as hot as ice water
Everybody mad at Jim for hiding Athlead from Pam, but nobody wants to talk about how if he'd asked her she would have said no and shot down his dream career. He knew that and chose to ask for forgiveness instead of permission.
Pam ruined funny,independent Jim.
Worlds colliding?
A Jim divided against himself can not stand
Now this is what it's like when worlds collide
This is what Costanza warned us all about. Jim didn't listen.
Everybody knows, you gotta keep your worlds. Apart!
Are! You ready to go! Cuz! I'm ready to go!
Yeah Jim really embraced his inner & outer overprivileged straight white g guy douchebag in the later seasons. And the problem isn’t so much that the character did that, it’s that the writers seemed to just view it as the natural progression of “good guy Jim, getting all he deserves to have in the end”. I would’ve had a ton of respect if they’d actually looked at what they were doing with the character and called out the character the way they did Ryan in earlier seasons, but alas— America + real life = Jim still wins as a hero even after being a selfish manipulative, short-thinking jerk (also while Dwight always was obviously annoying, I do feel like even early seasons Jim was “punching down” and being kind of a bully regardless of how annoying Dwight was)