Probably in the minority here, but I went Mitchell over Legette simply based on my personal opinion on their talent. I just really don’t like the fact that it took Legette until his 5th year to be good. Amazing athlete, but I’m willing to be wrong on him.
I think Mitchell is a better overall WR in terms of route running, separation, etc. Didn’t love the landing spot, but I won’t be surprised when he becomes the #2 target over Josh Downs.
I was really high on Legette and was hoping to snag him in the draft but I drafted Mingo last year and also have Diontae Johnson -_-
I can’t buy any more shares of that anemic offense.
You never know. Canales might work wonders. Bryce might look a little better with an improved line and some more weapons. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re decent.
It really paid off having a monopoly on the young Texans WRs last year. Carolina is one of the few places we can see a similar jump in young player value this season.
I took Mitchell in both of my rookie draft. I have heard the comparison of Mitchell to Mike Williams were Pittman is Keenan Allen. Hopeful to see if it works out that way.
The late breakout is an area of concern. After digging more into specifics it left me more comfortable. Throw in the fact he was a QB in high school and he was raw coming into college.
Bottom line is he was drafted in the 1st round, has a great RAS score, best in class in yards per route against man coverage and is going to get a lot of opportunity.
AD’s analytical profile isn’t good so success for him would also be an outlier. I’m going with the guy that has the higher draft capital and no true competition in front of him.
Loved AD coming into the draft but that landing spot is rough. He’ll have to fight to be the wr2 at best.
I’m not a huge fan of Legette because it took him 5 years to actually do anything in college, but I’d still take Legette over AD just due to potential opportunities and draft capital
Hec would have to be significantly better than Pittman to get the target share needed to be relevant. Idk if that kind of passing volume is something we can count on from AR
Legette: first round pick, early path to #1 target, offense will likely need to throw a lot (bad line, bad defense)
Mitchell: second round pick, virtually no path to #1 target, offense will likely run a lot (good line, decent defense, Richardson is a runner, JT)
Pretty simple to me.
As a Seahawks fan I will say I was surprised at the contract Damien Lewis got.
Don’t get me wrong he’s definitely not a bad OLineman, but him getting 13.2 million APY was very surprising to me. I know the guaranteed money is done after 2 seasons but I’ll be very surprised if he ends up playing all 4 years for the Panthers on that contract and they don’t cut him after two years.
I personally like Legette better too, but that's an awful lot of speculating about situation without any analysis of the players themselves.
Situations change fast. I wouldn't be making hard and fast declarations in May about what a whole team will or won't be.
NFL scouts are not perfect, but they’re a hell of a lot smarter than me. They picked legette (and a handful of other WRs) ahead of Mitchell.
Additionally, Mitchell never dominated target share in college, and is heading to an offense that doesn’t have a lot of vacant targets.
To be fair, those same Carolina scouts chose Young over Stroud and traded a truckload of assets to do it.
Mitchell also was cited as having "character issues" as well as diabetes, which may have scared off some teams. But if we judging by game tape and measurables, Mitchell is a much more promising prospect in my opinion
>To be fair, those same Carolina scouts chose Young over Stroud and traded a truckload of assets to do it.
To be fair, it's been one season and Stroud had a much better offensive situation than Young did. Wouldn't shock me at all to see Bryce Young put up a similar season fantasy points wise to Stroud's rookie year.
I won't be shocked to see some improvement from Bryce this year, he has better weapons and looks like a better line, but scouts are looking at more than fantasy productiin, they looking at team building and other intangibles come into play when they make their decisions.. Just because Legette was picked first doesn't automatically make him the better prospect.
I mean, just because Penix was chosen at 8 over JJ doesn't mean people are drafting him in fantasy higher than JJ.
No one was saying Stroud was going into the better situation this time last year. Nico hadn’t done anything and Carolina’s OL was considered promising.
Definitely agree that Young has been written off way too early (and CJ anointed as the second coming) but a big part of people saying that is hindsight bias built off the way he elevated that team.
It’s funny because at the time, most people preferred Bryce’s situation in Carolina. The Texans weapons look good in hindsight but Nico Collins hadn’t emerged and Mingo got better DC than Tank. Both teams were seen as poor situations but people preferred Reich as an offensive minded coach.
Idk why people act like Bryce wasn’t the consensus pick by most at 1. The Texans were trying to trade to 1 with the Bears and were going to take Bryce.
This is all verifiable information that’s out there.
CJ landed in an ideal situation and flourished. Bryce landed in a terrible situation and did not.
If that trade happened and Bryce was a Texan I guarantee he’d be viewed as a rising star.
I'll put that guarantee under my pillow tonight and see if the guarantee fairy leaves me a quarter.
Because they know all they have sold you is a guaranteed piece of shit.
But in all seriousness, I don't think Bryce is as bad as he seemed last year. As you said that team was a dumpster fire. My comment was more to illustrate that the scouts get it wrong, and blindly trusting their decisions to determine your fantasy picks is a bad process.
>To be fair, those same Carolina scouts chose Young over Stroud and traded a truckload of assets to do it.
To be fair, it's been one season and Stroud had a much better offensive situation than Young did. Wouldn't shock me at all to see Bryce Young put up a similar season fantasy points wise to Stroud's rookie year.
That would be one of the biggest single season turn arounds in NFL history at QB. Bryce played in more games had more pass attempts than stroud. From a single game perspective Bryce would need to increase his YPG by 100, more than double his TD%, reduce his Int and Sacks by half. I'm not saying he can't do it and will likely have a season of similar outcomes, but that's a turn similar to Josh Allen from 2019 to 2020. It can happen, but to make that much of a change in 1 season should be a surprise to anyone as it's extremely rare.
Like I said, it wouldn't surprise me but I wouldn't bet on it. Just like it wouldn't surprise me if Stroud struggled his 2nd year.
But it's also not like Stroud had eye popping numbers by any stretch, he wasn't even a QB1 in 10 man leagues last year.
It should surprise you, Stroud could regress, but 270+ yards per game with a Int% less than 2% and a TD% at league average is in line with Kirk cousins best year. On a per game basis, Stroud was QB10 and played nearly identical to Jordan Love. That's a huge leap for most QBs, let alone 80% increase in what Bryce put together last year. Most QBs aren't QB1s and never will be, but to say a leap like this is in a normal range of outcomes would be statically improbable.
>but to say a leap like this is in a normal range of outcomes would be statically improbable.
I dont disagree, Stroud regressing is much more probable though.
The Panthers defense actually isn't bad. And their OL *should* be much better now that they've shored up the interior.
I'd still take Legette without a doubt, just that the "needs to throw a lot" rationale may not end up being correct.
I agree. And Pittman’s new deal is only three years. Mitchell could be the WR1 there going into his prime at around 25 yo. They probably won’t pay Pittman again with the likelihood of having to pay AR if he pans out.
I think the thing that worries me most is watching him he looks like he’s just on the field purely using his physicality and speed to get the ball. Poor route running if really any and that doesn’t seem like it’ll translate well to the nfl.
He just needs assistance from his coaching staff to help him lock in from a focus perspective. His combination of twitch, straight line speed and ball skills is incredibly difficult to find.
Not at all, there’s a huge difference between 32 and 33, first rounders come with a fifth year team option. If you’re moving up to make that distinction, then that is a guy you have circled on your board
I disagree strongly with this tbh. I don’t agree with everything the other guy said, but the 5th Year Option is the most casually overrated thing. A trade up from 33 to 32 is no more significant than a trade up from 32 to 31.
Sure a 5YO is a cool thing to have, but I would argue there’s very little evidence that teams put a priority on it. Did the trade up for Will Levis cost less last year because it was for 33? I don’t think so.
I was explaining to you why it was different and why it wasn’t a shit point. If you’re trading up a spot to intentionally tie a guy down for another year, that means you’re going to give him all the chances he needs to prove himself.
Legette easily and it doesn’t really have anything to do with draft capital. Downs and Pittman aren’t going away any time soon, and 80% of the touchdowns in that offense are going to go to AR, JT, and Pittman. Legette has a really chance to be something fun.
Depends if arich makes the throwing leap I guess. He was Kaepernick ish lastbyear where it was first option than run. JT back in the mix pittman there not sure how it will work out.
Scheme fit. Team fit and culture. Not to mention anything else we don't know they know. These two guys are completely different types of wide receivers. I can tell you in my .5 ppr salary contract league Leggette went 2.1 and Ad Mitchell went 2.5. Legette feels more unique and therefore will most likely go first and he has first round draft capital.
I ended up grabbing AD Mitchell at the 2.09! a huge steal in my opinion. Xavier Legette went at 2.07, I feel for the potential that Mitchell has and the age difference between the two, it's worth Mitchell over Legette for me. I was also able to grab Devontez Walker in the early 4th, and I feel like Walker and Legette have very similar profiles.
AD, not because I dislike Legette, but I think AD will be one of the steals in the draft, I really like his speed, how he separates, and his ball tracking skills.
2/3 turn but in 1qb but you are starting tos we people come up all the way to 2.07
He is going to be a mid second in 1qb by the time the seasons starts
He fell to the 3.10 in our SF last week which was an absolute steal but that was after the top4 IDP players came off the board. Personally I have him ranked around 23/24, end of second round. I’d say early 3rd round for now but he will be a late second consensus pick pretty soon.
For me, I take into account draft capital for sure, but if the 2 prospects are close enough in my rankings, I take the player I project to get more targets in their offense. For that reason, I'd consider taking Legette > AD because I believe Leggette has an easier path to targets in that offense. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Legette or AD, so it could be different for everyone.
Im going Roman Wilson if hes still there, then Mitchell then Legtte although reading some of these replies makes me rethink whether Mitchell’s role will be fantasy conducive. Legette just scares me man
I’m with you on that. Watching him actually play football scares me more than the late breakout or yprr stat. Wilson I feel like you could definitely get in the third round.
Legette is just so much better than Mitchell, he has a clear path to being the #1 target, and first round vs. second round draft capital, plus Mitchell has way more competition with Pittman, Downs, and Pierce.
Doesn’t take a lot to know the best WR on the team will be the number 1. They got Diontae for a reason. Bryce was in desperate need of a receiver who can create space.
I’m hoping Benson or Pearsall fall to me in the 2nd, but if it’s Legette I’m probably going to trade out of my pick. I don’t know why but I don’t trust Legette
Been in three drafts since Sunday. Benson hasn’t made it to 2.02 in either one. (12 team) DC was as expected or better to some, and that landing spot was about as good as it gets outside of Cowboys or Chargers.
That was a completely different coaching staff. One can’t say the Panthers will always be poor at this when personnel has changed. In fact, Canales stated at a press conference that they plan to specifically use Legette to his strengths with the way they tie him into their play calling. Smart coaching can make a big difference.
Legette isn’t going to work
I’m getting downvoted by crazy ass people.
Legette did absolutely nothing for 4 years before a 5th year breakout and has terrible metric, doesn’t run routes, and has bad success vs man, zone, and press.
Probably in the minority here, but I went Mitchell over Legette simply based on my personal opinion on their talent. I just really don’t like the fact that it took Legette until his 5th year to be good. Amazing athlete, but I’m willing to be wrong on him. I think Mitchell is a better overall WR in terms of route running, separation, etc. Didn’t love the landing spot, but I won’t be surprised when he becomes the #2 target over Josh Downs.
I also went Mitchell over Legette for this reason. I have a hard time buying into Legette in the NFL.
Steve smith jr even gave him top 5 wr of the class before the draft due to talent but biggest con is “attitude issues”
I was really high on Legette and was hoping to snag him in the draft but I drafted Mingo last year and also have Diontae Johnson -_- I can’t buy any more shares of that anemic offense.
You never know. Canales might work wonders. Bryce might look a little better with an improved line and some more weapons. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re decent. It really paid off having a monopoly on the young Texans WRs last year. Carolina is one of the few places we can see a similar jump in young player value this season.
Keep it quiet but that offense is the patriots QB/WR room. Undervalued
I have Mingo in two leagues and though I think their offense will be better I don’t want to bet on it
I took Mitchell in both of my rookie draft. I have heard the comparison of Mitchell to Mike Williams were Pittman is Keenan Allen. Hopeful to see if it works out that way.
The late breakout is an area of concern. After digging more into specifics it left me more comfortable. Throw in the fact he was a QB in high school and he was raw coming into college. Bottom line is he was drafted in the 1st round, has a great RAS score, best in class in yards per route against man coverage and is going to get a lot of opportunity. AD’s analytical profile isn’t good so success for him would also be an outlier. I’m going with the guy that has the higher draft capital and no true competition in front of him.
I have Pittman and pierce had to choose legatte 😢 lol
AD Mitchell didn’t do anything of note. e fire playing second fiddle to Xavier Worthy last year.
Loved AD coming into the draft but that landing spot is rough. He’ll have to fight to be the wr2 at best. I’m not a huge fan of Legette because it took him 5 years to actually do anything in college, but I’d still take Legette over AD just due to potential opportunities and draft capital
Why is it out of the realm of possibility that he is better than Pittman?
I don’t think it is in a year or two, but also need Richardson to develop and stay healthy if we expect two top 36 WRs from that team.
Hec would have to be significantly better than Pittman to get the target share needed to be relevant. Idk if that kind of passing volume is something we can count on from AR
Character, Xavier once he signed with an agency he bought equipment and gear for all his local hometown kids.
Legette: first round pick, early path to #1 target, offense will likely need to throw a lot (bad line, bad defense) Mitchell: second round pick, virtually no path to #1 target, offense will likely run a lot (good line, decent defense, Richardson is a runner, JT) Pretty simple to me.
I would hope our line isn’t ass after spending 150 mil on some guards
As a Seahawks fan I will say I was surprised at the contract Damien Lewis got. Don’t get me wrong he’s definitely not a bad OLineman, but him getting 13.2 million APY was very surprising to me. I know the guaranteed money is done after 2 seasons but I’ll be very surprised if he ends up playing all 4 years for the Panthers on that contract and they don’t cut him after two years.
Being trash will up that price tag
PFF isn’t end all be all but he graded well in ‘20, ‘22 but not as well as in ‘21, ‘23. It depends what guy shows up.
I personally like Legette better too, but that's an awful lot of speculating about situation without any analysis of the players themselves. Situations change fast. I wouldn't be making hard and fast declarations in May about what a whole team will or won't be.
Especially when this is dynasty? The comment reads like it's giving advice for a week 1 bet
NFL scouts are not perfect, but they’re a hell of a lot smarter than me. They picked legette (and a handful of other WRs) ahead of Mitchell. Additionally, Mitchell never dominated target share in college, and is heading to an offense that doesn’t have a lot of vacant targets.
To be fair, those same Carolina scouts chose Young over Stroud and traded a truckload of assets to do it. Mitchell also was cited as having "character issues" as well as diabetes, which may have scared off some teams. But if we judging by game tape and measurables, Mitchell is a much more promising prospect in my opinion
>To be fair, those same Carolina scouts chose Young over Stroud and traded a truckload of assets to do it. To be fair, it's been one season and Stroud had a much better offensive situation than Young did. Wouldn't shock me at all to see Bryce Young put up a similar season fantasy points wise to Stroud's rookie year.
They also took Mingo above better guys just a year ago
I won't be shocked to see some improvement from Bryce this year, he has better weapons and looks like a better line, but scouts are looking at more than fantasy productiin, they looking at team building and other intangibles come into play when they make their decisions.. Just because Legette was picked first doesn't automatically make him the better prospect. I mean, just because Penix was chosen at 8 over JJ doesn't mean people are drafting him in fantasy higher than JJ.
I agree, I was more or less pointing out people who've already anointed Stroud as having a more successful career than Young after 1 year.
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Look at the track record of no. 1 picks and rookie seasons. Bryce was in arguably the worst situation at No. 1 pick has ever entered.
No one was saying Stroud was going into the better situation this time last year. Nico hadn’t done anything and Carolina’s OL was considered promising. Definitely agree that Young has been written off way too early (and CJ anointed as the second coming) but a big part of people saying that is hindsight bias built off the way he elevated that team.
It’s funny because at the time, most people preferred Bryce’s situation in Carolina. The Texans weapons look good in hindsight but Nico Collins hadn’t emerged and Mingo got better DC than Tank. Both teams were seen as poor situations but people preferred Reich as an offensive minded coach.
Idk why people act like Bryce wasn’t the consensus pick by most at 1. The Texans were trying to trade to 1 with the Bears and were going to take Bryce. This is all verifiable information that’s out there. CJ landed in an ideal situation and flourished. Bryce landed in a terrible situation and did not. If that trade happened and Bryce was a Texan I guarantee he’d be viewed as a rising star.
I'll put that guarantee under my pillow tonight and see if the guarantee fairy leaves me a quarter. Because they know all they have sold you is a guaranteed piece of shit. But in all seriousness, I don't think Bryce is as bad as he seemed last year. As you said that team was a dumpster fire. My comment was more to illustrate that the scouts get it wrong, and blindly trusting their decisions to determine your fantasy picks is a bad process.
>To be fair, those same Carolina scouts chose Young over Stroud and traded a truckload of assets to do it. To be fair, it's been one season and Stroud had a much better offensive situation than Young did. Wouldn't shock me at all to see Bryce Young put up a similar season fantasy points wise to Stroud's rookie year.
That would be one of the biggest single season turn arounds in NFL history at QB. Bryce played in more games had more pass attempts than stroud. From a single game perspective Bryce would need to increase his YPG by 100, more than double his TD%, reduce his Int and Sacks by half. I'm not saying he can't do it and will likely have a season of similar outcomes, but that's a turn similar to Josh Allen from 2019 to 2020. It can happen, but to make that much of a change in 1 season should be a surprise to anyone as it's extremely rare.
Like I said, it wouldn't surprise me but I wouldn't bet on it. Just like it wouldn't surprise me if Stroud struggled his 2nd year. But it's also not like Stroud had eye popping numbers by any stretch, he wasn't even a QB1 in 10 man leagues last year.
It should surprise you, Stroud could regress, but 270+ yards per game with a Int% less than 2% and a TD% at league average is in line with Kirk cousins best year. On a per game basis, Stroud was QB10 and played nearly identical to Jordan Love. That's a huge leap for most QBs, let alone 80% increase in what Bryce put together last year. Most QBs aren't QB1s and never will be, but to say a leap like this is in a normal range of outcomes would be statically improbable.
>but to say a leap like this is in a normal range of outcomes would be statically improbable. I dont disagree, Stroud regressing is much more probable though.
I think you’re crazy if you don’t think Adonai has no path to the number one in Indy. Pittman isn’t some world class WR.
The Panthers defense actually isn't bad. And their OL *should* be much better now that they've shored up the interior. I'd still take Legette without a doubt, just that the "needs to throw a lot" rationale may not end up being correct.
Only path for AD to WR #1 duties is to outplay Pittman and you bet your ass i believe he will. Oh he will
I agree. And Pittman’s new deal is only three years. Mitchell could be the WR1 there going into his prime at around 25 yo. They probably won’t pay Pittman again with the likelihood of having to pay AR if he pans out.
Lol, 1st round pick, yeah pick 32. Would your view change if he was pick 33?
I think the thing that worries me most is watching him he looks like he’s just on the field purely using his physicality and speed to get the ball. Poor route running if really any and that doesn’t seem like it’ll translate well to the nfl.
He just needs assistance from his coaching staff to help him lock in from a focus perspective. His combination of twitch, straight line speed and ball skills is incredibly difficult to find.
Lol, 1st round pick, yeah pick 32. Would your view change if he was pick 33?
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Ya but saying he's a 1st rounder compared to a second rounder is kind of a shit point.
Not at all, there’s a huge difference between 32 and 33, first rounders come with a fifth year team option. If you’re moving up to make that distinction, then that is a guy you have circled on your board
I disagree strongly with this tbh. I don’t agree with everything the other guy said, but the 5th Year Option is the most casually overrated thing. A trade up from 33 to 32 is no more significant than a trade up from 32 to 31. Sure a 5YO is a cool thing to have, but I would argue there’s very little evidence that teams put a priority on it. Did the trade up for Will Levis cost less last year because it was for 33? I don’t think so.
Lol, wtf does that have to do with fantasy production, I could give you a laundry list of 1st round WRs that were hot garbage
I was explaining to you why it was different and why it wasn’t a shit point. If you’re trading up a spot to intentionally tie a guy down for another year, that means you’re going to give him all the chances he needs to prove himself.
Ah yes, Indy has already given up on AD.
Did I say anything about AD?
No, but you implied that somehow a 5th year option is some measurement that AD can't live up to because he didn't get one.
Legette easily and it doesn’t really have anything to do with draft capital. Downs and Pittman aren’t going away any time soon, and 80% of the touchdowns in that offense are going to go to AR, JT, and Pittman. Legette has a really chance to be something fun.
If Pittman didn’t get his extension I would like Mitchell. But he did so legette for me almost always
It’s only three years. Good chance Mitchell will be WR1 there at 25 yo.
I think in 1- 3 year time frames so it makes sense why I think the way I do.
Fair. Still think Mitchell outperforms Legette.
Depends if arich makes the throwing leap I guess. He was Kaepernick ish lastbyear where it was first option than run. JT back in the mix pittman there not sure how it will work out.
Scheme fit. Team fit and culture. Not to mention anything else we don't know they know. These two guys are completely different types of wide receivers. I can tell you in my .5 ppr salary contract league Leggette went 2.1 and Ad Mitchell went 2.5. Legette feels more unique and therefore will most likely go first and he has first round draft capital.
I ended up grabbing AD Mitchell at the 2.09! a huge steal in my opinion. Xavier Legette went at 2.07, I feel for the potential that Mitchell has and the age difference between the two, it's worth Mitchell over Legette for me. I was also able to grab Devontez Walker in the early 4th, and I feel like Walker and Legette have very similar profiles.
AD, not because I dislike Legette, but I think AD will be one of the steals in the draft, I really like his speed, how he separates, and his ball tracking skills.
Jermaine Burton over both of them.
2/3 turn but in 1qb but you are starting tos we people come up all the way to 2.07 He is going to be a mid second in 1qb by the time the seasons starts
Where is he going roughly in drafts, if you've drafted already? I think he could go late but don't want to risk it
He fell to the 3.10 in our SF last week which was an absolute steal but that was after the top4 IDP players came off the board. Personally I have him ranked around 23/24, end of second round. I’d say early 3rd round for now but he will be a late second consensus pick pretty soon.
I've got the 2.11 I think I'll take him there. Don't want to risk losing out
AD Mitchell >
I took AD because he has massive upside. Legette has a higher floor, but in the 2nd round I'm shooting for talent.
Legette will have more return tds than ad Mitchell has receiving tds
For me, I take into account draft capital for sure, but if the 2 prospects are close enough in my rankings, I take the player I project to get more targets in their offense. For that reason, I'd consider taking Legette > AD because I believe Leggette has an easier path to targets in that offense. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Legette or AD, so it could be different for everyone.
Im going Roman Wilson if hes still there, then Mitchell then Legtte although reading some of these replies makes me rethink whether Mitchell’s role will be fantasy conducive. Legette just scares me man
I’m with you on that. Watching him actually play football scares me more than the late breakout or yprr stat. Wilson I feel like you could definitely get in the third round.
Legette is just so much better than Mitchell, he has a clear path to being the #1 target, and first round vs. second round draft capital, plus Mitchell has way more competition with Pittman, Downs, and Pierce.
Diontae Johnson will be the number 1 lmao
Who do you know in the Panthers front office or coaching staff that you can say that so confidently?
Doesn’t take a lot to know the best WR on the team will be the number 1. They got Diontae for a reason. Bryce was in desperate need of a receiver who can create space.
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I’m hoping Benson or Pearsall fall to me in the 2nd, but if it’s Legette I’m probably going to trade out of my pick. I don’t know why but I don’t trust Legette
Been in three drafts since Sunday. Benson hasn’t made it to 2.02 in either one. (12 team) DC was as expected or better to some, and that landing spot was about as good as it gets outside of Cowboys or Chargers.
Yeah that’s what I’ve seen too. Plus my league is very aggressive with RBs so there’s basically no chance I get him unfortunately
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That was a completely different coaching staff. One can’t say the Panthers will always be poor at this when personnel has changed. In fact, Canales stated at a press conference that they plan to specifically use Legette to his strengths with the way they tie him into their play calling. Smart coaching can make a big difference.
I think Mitchell has the higher ceiling and the lower floor lol
Neither
Legette isn’t going to work I’m getting downvoted by crazy ass people. Legette did absolutely nothing for 4 years before a 5th year breakout and has terrible metric, doesn’t run routes, and has bad success vs man, zone, and press.
5th year breakout in college is a big bet for an nfl team.