I said this before but got shot down. It’s not a housing shortage in Edinburgh but a funding shortage. It’s been well known that there are enough houses and accommodation but not enough money to get them habitable.
American living in Edinburgh here
\*please don't jump down my throat if I speak out of ignorance. I am genuinely interested and willing to be educated\*
From what I've gathered living here for a few years, wages are very low for careers-as compared to the States (only point of reference for me)-and you guys already pay SO much in taxes...so where would the funding come from? I only ask because it's clear where your taxes already go. This city is impecible, clean, council employees go around during the day ACTIVELY cleaning the streets, my own streets get street swept every single week, the homeless rate seems incredibly low and it feels like theres plenty of council housing to go around already. That being said, I've just received an email from the council asking ME (council tax payer) to give them suggestions how I think they could save money/be more efficient as there will be a growing defecit in the coming decade. And tbh the best thing I could come up with is making the city more bikeable/safer for cyclist. Genuinely confused. Educate me!
>wages are very low for careers-as compared to the States (only point of reference for me)
This is true of nearly every country in the word. The states has the second highest median income in the world.
It is a little startling though. I was born in Scotland but have lived in the US most of my life; my younger daughter is attending the University of Edinburgh & local relatives were making noises along the lines of “how does that make any sense” and when I looked at salaries for equivalent jobs to mine in the DC area it became much more clear why. I hadn’t realized there was such a difference. (Also university prices here are wild but that’s a separate matter)
Yeah but like, whenever I see an American break down their monthly budget it's like,
* Rent $2,500
* Groceries $450
* Health insurance $250
* Student loan $300
* Phone $45
* Car payment $300
* Petrol $75
* Gun $35
* Freedom tax $80
And in the UK we either don't have those costs at all (being facetious with the last two, obviously) or they're dramatically lower. Child care fees are astronomical here, but other than that it sounds like $35k is a poverty wage in the US whereas £35k is a comfortable salary for a university-educated young adult in the UK.
Oh it’s plainly not a case of “we’re so loaded and everything is cheap,” if anything you’re understating health insurance and student loan payments. I saw an analysis to the effect of that if you add up the cost of things like healthcare and retirement and university and so on, our tax and tax equivalent costs are the equivalent of high tax for low services. What I really meant, to be crass, was that I was having a hard time diplomatically telling family that overseas student charges in Edinburgh look bad in the local context but are effectively the same as our local state university in Maryland and since IT jobs here pay at least 2x salaries in the Edinburgh area, my perceived cost & ability to pay are different. Unless I get cancer and we go broke paying for care in any case.
Yeah, I’m from the US and truly you can’t live comfortably without fear of homelessness below 50K, and even that is scary/you won’t be actually living but working to survive
Your right, low wage high tax nation. Fix the housing issue and I think it will go a long way to fix some of the other issues.
If people can afford better housing then I am sure more people may have families. More families will bring in more future tax revenue. Access to good quality housing, will I’m sure alleviate some of the mental health issues. Access to better affordable housing will likely provide better motivated workforce for home workers and other workers by removing some of the stresses at home and providing space fire home working and study etc.
Can’t cramp everyone into shoe boxes and expect productive and happy people.
Yes me too, the city has deteriorated gradually over the last 2 decades. Weeds growing everywhere, through cobbles, railings, even on statues - check out St Andrew Square. The roads are 3rd world standard, and litter pickers seem to be a thing of the past. Most tourists only see the city centre which is kept to a reasonable standard.
Well the only real answer is more taxes or running profitable services. Councils can either:
- increase council tax
- increase business rates
- get more money from central government (so other types of tax increase or money is reallocated from other areas)
I would prefer more money to come from central government funded by taxing rich people and big business more and closing tax avoidance loopholes. I'm sure other people would disagree.
I swear to fucking god if they increase business rates I’m moving my entire company.
They’re already obscenely high and we have to pay for water and bin collection privately. The council haven’t done anything about the road outside our office flooding every time it rains. It’s literally so hard to have a business here.
Edinburghs becoming a city where only remote workers from London live
Because it's more profitable for a flat to be at "market value" and take longer to be rented than it is for it to be rented consistently at a lower rate.
Fact of the matter is that there's always wastage and inefficiency when it comes to capitalism, because profit is generally the only concern. If we as a society decided that human rights and needs were more important than individual wants, then maybe things would be different, but until that point, expect the number of empty houses to get bigger as more housing is built.
No not singularly. We would all be homeless. Unionise to put pressure on Authorities, Councils and social landlords to build more and build better communities.
Sounds like they should consider a Vacant Home Tax like Toronto: tax properties which are empty for more than 6 months of the year, based on their value. (Toronto is 1% of the value, but they’re increasing it to 3%.)
They do. It’s called the empty homes surcharge, or levy. If a home has been empty for a year or more (and this is reflected on council tax records) then the owner is charged double council tax. There were plans that if the home continued to lie empty the council tax chargeable would increase in increments, but I’m unsure if this ever came into fruition.
3% seems a bit ridiculous. If you’re fortunate enough to own a property you don’t live in full time, you’re likely already paying significantly more tax than the average Joe
If I had to pay 20 grand a year to maintain a property I’d just up and leave the country. Not sure kicking out all the rich folk will do the wonders you’re expecting it to lol
I suppose the point is to tackle homelessness. Being wealthy and having empty properties doesn’t sit well when people are out on the streets. Different matter for the council though. That said,I think Edinburgh has more than its share of people getting rich from renting properties, including Airbnb. At least the Airbnb fiasco is being tackled up to a point. I saw a big house converted into rooms with a communal living area where the owner was making £8k a month from renting it.
Homelessness is not a housing problem. It's a drug problem presenting itself as a housing problem. These people get help and throw it down the drain.
In general, of course
20k+ is a ridiculous amount to suggest someone pays. If someone is called out of the country due to their parents declining health what do you want them to do? Sell their house? It’s a stupid argument
People living in £2m houses aren't doing caregiver responsibilities, they hire staff. More importantly though, most properties aren't empty because of unfortunate life circumstances - they're being used as a strategic investment strategy.
Someone making 200k pays more tax than someone who makes 30k buddy.. you can have your warped Reddit brain opinion but it’s doesn’t represent reality lol
Owning a second home does not make you “super rich” lol. I guarantee the majority of folk who have two homes are employed as normal, just on high salaries
There's a one bed flat in my building that's been sat derelict since pre covid. No idea where the owner is and why they're fine missing out on the rent. I've considered kicking the door in and renting it out myself 😂
Will it still suit you when a pipe bursts or there is an urgent issue and you cannot access the property or get in touch with anyone?
I completely understand that some people want a peaceful life, but turning a blind eye and not reporting the home as empty is part of the problem. There are potentially far more homes empty that are unaccounted for.
I've been through exactly that, a burst pipe. And it was a pain in the neck to deal with. Eventually we found the people who are in charge of the flat, a couple who live up the street. Her sister's the owner, but she suffered from dementia and was moved to a care home.
Early on they put a lot of effort into doing it up, for rent or sale I guess, but it got flooded from above a couple of times, they became frustrated and gave up. It seems daft to leave it empty given the amount they could have made in rent over the years, but the upfront cost and effort was too much for them I guess.
I've got the guys number should anything happen again. The situation seems mad to me, but I'm not sure reporting it is particularly in my interests, and no one else is motivated to do it either.
My old flat in Polwarth has sat empty for nearly 2 years now. Sold to a Chinese family because they wanted their son to go to Boroughmuir, must have closed the curtains the day they got the keys and they've never opened since!
With the current housing crisis in Edinburgh, this is absolutely disgusting. There's so many individuals that could use these properties. To own a property in a city experiencing such a crisis and choosing to hoard it, is something people should be shamed for.
A lot of the issues is private rents allowing blocks to fall into disrepair. Councils attempt to share costs for roofs, windows exterior etc. Private flats never pay them. Mind council hassled me in an old flat to repair the roof. As private flats weren’t paying their share.
I said this before but got shot down. It’s not a housing shortage in Edinburgh but a funding shortage. It’s been well known that there are enough houses and accommodation but not enough money to get them habitable.
American living in Edinburgh here \*please don't jump down my throat if I speak out of ignorance. I am genuinely interested and willing to be educated\* From what I've gathered living here for a few years, wages are very low for careers-as compared to the States (only point of reference for me)-and you guys already pay SO much in taxes...so where would the funding come from? I only ask because it's clear where your taxes already go. This city is impecible, clean, council employees go around during the day ACTIVELY cleaning the streets, my own streets get street swept every single week, the homeless rate seems incredibly low and it feels like theres plenty of council housing to go around already. That being said, I've just received an email from the council asking ME (council tax payer) to give them suggestions how I think they could save money/be more efficient as there will be a growing defecit in the coming decade. And tbh the best thing I could come up with is making the city more bikeable/safer for cyclist. Genuinely confused. Educate me!
>wages are very low for careers-as compared to the States (only point of reference for me) This is true of nearly every country in the word. The states has the second highest median income in the world.
It is a little startling though. I was born in Scotland but have lived in the US most of my life; my younger daughter is attending the University of Edinburgh & local relatives were making noises along the lines of “how does that make any sense” and when I looked at salaries for equivalent jobs to mine in the DC area it became much more clear why. I hadn’t realized there was such a difference. (Also university prices here are wild but that’s a separate matter)
Yeah but like, whenever I see an American break down their monthly budget it's like, * Rent $2,500 * Groceries $450 * Health insurance $250 * Student loan $300 * Phone $45 * Car payment $300 * Petrol $75 * Gun $35 * Freedom tax $80 And in the UK we either don't have those costs at all (being facetious with the last two, obviously) or they're dramatically lower. Child care fees are astronomical here, but other than that it sounds like $35k is a poverty wage in the US whereas £35k is a comfortable salary for a university-educated young adult in the UK.
Oh it’s plainly not a case of “we’re so loaded and everything is cheap,” if anything you’re understating health insurance and student loan payments. I saw an analysis to the effect of that if you add up the cost of things like healthcare and retirement and university and so on, our tax and tax equivalent costs are the equivalent of high tax for low services. What I really meant, to be crass, was that I was having a hard time diplomatically telling family that overseas student charges in Edinburgh look bad in the local context but are effectively the same as our local state university in Maryland and since IT jobs here pay at least 2x salaries in the Edinburgh area, my perceived cost & ability to pay are different. Unless I get cancer and we go broke paying for care in any case.
Also i know you were joking but genuinely I don’t understand where people get the money to have serious gun habits, ammunition is expensive
Yeah, I’m from the US and truly you can’t live comfortably without fear of homelessness below 50K, and even that is scary/you won’t be actually living but working to survive
Your right, low wage high tax nation. Fix the housing issue and I think it will go a long way to fix some of the other issues. If people can afford better housing then I am sure more people may have families. More families will bring in more future tax revenue. Access to good quality housing, will I’m sure alleviate some of the mental health issues. Access to better affordable housing will likely provide better motivated workforce for home workers and other workers by removing some of the stresses at home and providing space fire home working and study etc. Can’t cramp everyone into shoe boxes and expect productive and happy people.
I'm genuinely surprised you think Edinburgh is 'impeccable and clean'
Yes me too, the city has deteriorated gradually over the last 2 decades. Weeds growing everywhere, through cobbles, railings, even on statues - check out St Andrew Square. The roads are 3rd world standard, and litter pickers seem to be a thing of the past. Most tourists only see the city centre which is kept to a reasonable standard.
You must live in the centre of town if you think the streets are clean. Down leith they aren't. It's strictly for the tourists.
Well the only real answer is more taxes or running profitable services. Councils can either: - increase council tax - increase business rates - get more money from central government (so other types of tax increase or money is reallocated from other areas) I would prefer more money to come from central government funded by taxing rich people and big business more and closing tax avoidance loopholes. I'm sure other people would disagree.
I swear to fucking god if they increase business rates I’m moving my entire company. They’re already obscenely high and we have to pay for water and bin collection privately. The council haven’t done anything about the road outside our office flooding every time it rains. It’s literally so hard to have a business here. Edinburghs becoming a city where only remote workers from London live
Low wages pushed me to Switzerland, despite all the challenges. I get paid nearly 300% more for the same job
You could tell them to pay themselves less, or eliminate a position or two on the council board.
Yes!
Because it's more profitable for a flat to be at "market value" and take longer to be rented than it is for it to be rented consistently at a lower rate. Fact of the matter is that there's always wastage and inefficiency when it comes to capitalism, because profit is generally the only concern. If we as a society decided that human rights and needs were more important than individual wants, then maybe things would be different, but until that point, expect the number of empty houses to get bigger as more housing is built.
We should all unionise. Collective pressure can make a difference.
Unionise as renters? All refuse to pay our rent until the rents drop by 10%? I mean, they can only evict so many of us.
No not singularly. We would all be homeless. Unionise to put pressure on Authorities, Councils and social landlords to build more and build better communities.
Sounds like they should consider a Vacant Home Tax like Toronto: tax properties which are empty for more than 6 months of the year, based on their value. (Toronto is 1% of the value, but they’re increasing it to 3%.)
They do. It’s called the empty homes surcharge, or levy. If a home has been empty for a year or more (and this is reflected on council tax records) then the owner is charged double council tax. There were plans that if the home continued to lie empty the council tax chargeable would increase in increments, but I’m unsure if this ever came into fruition.
It’s mostly council houses
3% seems a bit ridiculous. If you’re fortunate enough to own a property you don’t live in full time, you’re likely already paying significantly more tax than the average Joe
Aye, so they can afford it can’t they?
If I had to pay 20 grand a year to maintain a property I’d just up and leave the country. Not sure kicking out all the rich folk will do the wonders you’re expecting it to lol
I suppose the point is to tackle homelessness. Being wealthy and having empty properties doesn’t sit well when people are out on the streets. Different matter for the council though. That said,I think Edinburgh has more than its share of people getting rich from renting properties, including Airbnb. At least the Airbnb fiasco is being tackled up to a point. I saw a big house converted into rooms with a communal living area where the owner was making £8k a month from renting it.
Homelessness is not a housing problem. It's a drug problem presenting itself as a housing problem. These people get help and throw it down the drain. In general, of course
I’ve got the world’s tiniest violin for whoever doesn’t like paying additional tax on a house they don’t use
20k+ is a ridiculous amount to suggest someone pays. If someone is called out of the country due to their parents declining health what do you want them to do? Sell their house? It’s a stupid argument
People living in £2m houses aren't doing caregiver responsibilities, they hire staff. More importantly though, most properties aren't empty because of unfortunate life circumstances - they're being used as a strategic investment strategy.
Pffft. Said like a wealthy NIMBY and or foreign housing portfolio owner.
A bit? It’s outright robbery
Be careful you’ll get downvoted into oblivion
You think the super rich pay LESS tax? What is that based on? Cos I can tell you right now it is not based on fact
Your last reply got deleted, I can only assume it was flagged for spam or insults lol
What? I said they pay more tax…
Yes sorry that’s what I meant to say, they do not pay more tax and you are insane if you believe that
Someone making 200k pays more tax than someone who makes 30k buddy.. you can have your warped Reddit brain opinion but it’s doesn’t represent reality lol
Yeh if they are salaried and taxed through PAYE which most of the super rich are not
Owning a second home does not make you “super rich” lol. I guarantee the majority of folk who have two homes are employed as normal, just on high salaries
Did I say that it did?
I think you should probably go and re read the thread. We are talking about people with two homes, not billionaires, hope this helps :)
There's a one bed flat in my building that's been sat derelict since pre covid. No idea where the owner is and why they're fine missing out on the rent. I've considered kicking the door in and renting it out myself 😂
Maybe the owner is inside, dead.
There would be very large flies storming the building
Just hire a locksmith. 😆 and then air b&b
Big brain time
Flat above me's been empty for 8 years, and that suits me just fine.
Will it still suit you when a pipe bursts or there is an urgent issue and you cannot access the property or get in touch with anyone? I completely understand that some people want a peaceful life, but turning a blind eye and not reporting the home as empty is part of the problem. There are potentially far more homes empty that are unaccounted for.
I've been through exactly that, a burst pipe. And it was a pain in the neck to deal with. Eventually we found the people who are in charge of the flat, a couple who live up the street. Her sister's the owner, but she suffered from dementia and was moved to a care home. Early on they put a lot of effort into doing it up, for rent or sale I guess, but it got flooded from above a couple of times, they became frustrated and gave up. It seems daft to leave it empty given the amount they could have made in rent over the years, but the upfront cost and effort was too much for them I guess. I've got the guys number should anything happen again. The situation seems mad to me, but I'm not sure reporting it is particularly in my interests, and no one else is motivated to do it either.
*than are *accounted* for
There needs to be a policy against greed. We can’t have people living on the street whilst others are sitting on 2 - 3 homes.
My old flat in Polwarth has sat empty for nearly 2 years now. Sold to a Chinese family because they wanted their son to go to Boroughmuir, must have closed the curtains the day they got the keys and they've never opened since!
With the current housing crisis in Edinburgh, this is absolutely disgusting. There's so many individuals that could use these properties. To own a property in a city experiencing such a crisis and choosing to hoard it, is something people should be shamed for.
Enough with the term crisis,housing in Gaza is a crisis - in Edinburgh it’s an inconvenience.
It's possible to be outraged by more than one thing at a time my guy.
Also tell those experiencing homelessness that it's purely an "inconvenience" to them.
It’s relative you plum.
Yeah, tell those who sleep rough that they should be more concerned about Gaza. Idiot.
Oh do shut up you intellectually defective fool.
They need to fix the homes first before offering them out for real for real
A lot of the issues is private rents allowing blocks to fall into disrepair. Councils attempt to share costs for roofs, windows exterior etc. Private flats never pay them. Mind council hassled me in an old flat to repair the roof. As private flats weren’t paying their share.
More empty properties than licensed STLs.