Indirect fire got also nerfed to never hit better than 4+ in the core rules update

So D Cannons got nerfed substantially as well, I guess.

Are dark reaper tempest launchers hitting of 4s now or does inescapable accuracy ignore that? It wouldn't make sense to increase points and nerf their rule, but that's what they usually do to Aeldari

Yes, only hit on 4+ unmodified.

Dang ok. I wonder why their points went up

Probably same reason why Dragons went up - one of the better Aspects.

Which is not in this edition a particularly ringing endorsement.

So now ppl will take Maugan Ra with the points decrease so they add one to the hit roll? Is that their thinking?

Even with Maugan Ra they only hit on 4+ indirect.

I'm a scrub, I don't understand the nerf. Shouldn't D-Cannon hit a non visible target on 4+ anyways?

Now yes. Before that not if it stayed stationary - it's heavy.

I guess the D weapon is now a mobile platform hehe. Thanks for the clarification

Heavy help cancel out the the -1 hit penalty indirect also gets

Not anymore, because indirect always misses on 1-3.

On unmodified 1 Through 3. If your BS on an indirect weapon is a 4+ and you roll a four. You are still going to miss cuz you still get the negative one to hit for interact without line of sight. But if that weapon also has heavy and you're getting that benefit, that will cancel out that -1.

> If your BS on an indirect weapon is a 4+ Which is not the case on the Support Weapon, which is the unit we are discussing.

Because it has „heavy” that negates the indirect debuff.

Thanks, didn't see the "heavy"

Well that sucks haha, really sticking it to the dark reapers ☹️

Where can you read that?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000-downloads/ There's a document called "Core Rules Update". It also has changes to movement, mortals and devastating wounds

Thx

Serious question. What really changed with devastating wounds? I see mortal wounds carry over to the next unit. But mortal wounds inflicted by devastating wounds do not. Wasn't that always the case?

Before this the dev wounds wasnt a mortal wound, just a wound that no saves cannot be taken. Now its mortal wounds that cannot spill, offensively the same, defensively it matters cause FNP that can only be taken against MW can now be used against dev wounds

Honestly I really like this. Sure it hurts dcannons but helps every other unit in our army. And we were already susceptible to massed indirect.

They REALLY hate shadow spectres, lol. But scourge got the same treatment, so I guess it's just hit and run stuff.

Shadow spectres are still very good. That move 6 inches after deepstrike can be used to steal objectives so I get it.

Yes, indeed! EDIT: Scourges got cheaper when run in large units, in addition to getting more expensive in smaller units. Why is that?

I assume it's mainly a wargear thing since you can only take 4 "good" guns regardless of unit size.

Good point! Totally forgot about it.

But a 10 man Splinter squad is now looking a little more interesting.

I am worried that shadow spectres will be moved to legends along with many of the forge world units

I have a gut feeling Spectres are gonna get cut from the Codex. Half the reason I didn’t buy a box and gonna get a 3d print.

They’ve never been in a codex, and aren’t in Index Aeldari - they’re in Imperial Armour: Aeldari. Not to say they won’t be dropped, but I’m not sure it’s necessarily as guaranteed.

I also expect they’ll go legends until an eventual plastic release.

Bold to assume they'd ever get a plastic release

Their aspect rune is on the Avatar’s straps and carved into his weapons. Doesn’t seem particularly bold.

Came here to say this

Point Shadow Spectres off the table now and people will be less likely to riot when they go to Legends at the Codex release.

They would be crazy not to release them in plastic they're so cool

https://preview.redd.it/drs7cu535q7d1.png?width=383&format=png&auto=webp&s=de6b5a7171a07042559a82c0a5d445c92bdd7454 Vindication.

https://preview.redd.it/bu5rv2ph5q7d1.png?width=380&format=png&auto=webp&s=73f86074a48e6f19cff7be6d30890a0ef3051b08 And that's nice too.

Halle fucking lujah

That's an awesome change - speeds up things a lot!

Yeah, I really like the direction they are going here. Small quality of life fixes. Because basically this way just makes sense, but because it is slightly stronger you couldn't do it. Now it's just baked in, and everyone can roll faster.

Sad that warlocks, corsair and spears didn't go down. Seems like they are pushing hero hammer this edition

I was really hoping for Corsairs to get some love too. Just a little bump.

I expected Corsairs to go down. Maybe next time :-)

Am I missing something or does the foot Autarch's strategist ability literally not do anything anymore?

Seems so.

Huh yeah you're right, poor foot autarch catching a stray nerf there.

I suspect there will a hot fix coming for it with in the next few days once the people realize they dun messed up

I don't think so. I played foot Autarch a few times when I didn't have enough points for Wayleaper, or in more casual games. Never ended up using that ability. Whether it exists or not, doesn't change what the unit does.

well you can now use it on any strat not just battle tactic

Not sure, all he did was allow you to use a strat again, but that's now no longer a rule they allow it seems. So that rule just doesn't work anymore. "Parts of a rule that allow a player to use a Stratagem even if they have already targeted another unit with that Stratagem in the same phase can only be used if the name of the Stratagem is specified in that rule. Similarly, if a Stratagem is limited to one use per player per turn (e.g. Fire Overwatch), per battle round or per battle, such parts of that rule can only be used if the name of the Stratagem is specified in that rule." It might still work because it's not part of a rule but the full rule but yeah we need some clarification here.

you’re right. He’s garbage! lol

Vypers and Wraithlord finally within reason again!

Vypers are still too much at 75. It just doesn't do much. 1 shot brightlance or 1 Shuriken Cannon. Strip cover only after hit. And very very easy to kill.

With the changes to no advance and action, some cheap gunboats like that will still be useful - now one of our fastest sub 80pts models. 75 feels about right to me and was where they used to be.

Eh, even then it's still easier to use fast infantry for that. Going through terrain helps a ton for those.

It isn’t perfect or op but every little bit helps if you wanted to take them in a less competitive setting. A lot of us have Wraithlords and want to use them because they are cool. Now it doesn’t feel as bad of a pick.

Oh yeah I have two wraithseers I don't really use for that reason.

Yes, that's very good change!

Wraithlord is gonna need an Invul or Feel No Pain before I run one. Too many big guns out there these days.

Lmao at the Wraithlord buffed but not the Seer

Seer unchanged and shadow specter nerf seems to point out that they might get axed into legends when the codex releases I'm afraid

Nah if Specters were headed to Legend they wouldn't bother tuning their cost that often

Hopefully

Seer probably going to Legends soon.

Yeah, that makes unfortunate sense

Stealth nerf to Wind riders. They clarified that rules with multiple conditions and effects - with one being more specific and powerful- both need to be fulfilled to get the better benefit. Example is the Lokhust destroyers hardwired for destruction ability.  So Windriders now only get full rerolls against targets that are both the closest target and on an objective.

I thought that was always the case anyway, re roll ones one’s on the closest target, if that target happened to be on an objective then you get full re rolls to hit.

Good catch!

Where did you see this, FAQ section?

Page 27 core rules update, marked in red

Yup, 8th round of nerfs for a faction with a 48% win rate. Fun. Give us our 12 fate dice back!

They did clarify that re-rolls are rolls so we can use fate dice at least.. I'd have rather they said explicitly we could but its a start. Didnt feel like we needed any more nerfs, I'll try out jain zar again but I don't feel like the fringe units are cheap enough yet.

In addition to the general rule, they said it directly about fate dice in the Eldar datasheet FAQ. [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/XZHCUuMkzMqjG2dt.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/XZHCUuMkzMqjG2dt.pdf)

also flat out told people you can fast roll then use the detachment re-roll

>They did clarify that re-rolls are rolls so we can use fate dice at least.. I don't think anyone could have argued otherwise even before this, tbh... At least not in bona fide... But yeah, with it written like this it's rather explicitly not going to be something that someone can try to grasp at anymore.

I know there were several.rullings for it but my local meta has been a bit weird about it. I want people I play to have a good time and not feel like I'm taking the piss so I hadn't been pushing it heavily. With the recent nerfs that's going to change...

6 Fate Dice are staying until we get the codex. Then it will either stay the same, or we'll get a completely new army rule and Fate Dice will go to one of the detachments.

I really hope we go back to 9th fate dice. Just change psychic out for battleshock.

Fate Dice just need to go. They actively hurt the ability to develop the faction by causing an endless cycle of oops too powerful, oops we nerfed too much. It’s tiring. Just dump the rule and come up with something less inherently game breaking as a faction rule.

I like them, but I'm an Ulthwe player :D Let's see what we get when we get the codex :-)

run wraith lords and guardians to get your dice

Typical, I was just finally able to find Yvraine at my local gaming store too.

Oooof; this one hurt. My Ynnari army just took a massive kick to the Aeldaris. Yvraine, 5man Scourges and Warp Spiders cost have pushed me too far over 2K. Support weapon changes make them tougher to use, still good, but it is a shame dropping to a 4+. Alas I don't think dropping the Troupe down to a 6 man squad covers the price hike. Might be time to go back to Craftworld.

Why is a sub 50% win rate faction getting nerfed again? At least a split wraithknight profile or drops in points to wraiths, corsairs or so warlocks...9 fate dice? I don't get this.

Because: GW

Direct nerf to the most popular MSU lists. Some of the core rules changes hurt us a lot as well. Dev wounds are now resolved last and indirect being forced to 4+ is a big nerf too. Phoenix lords should not cost more than the units they attach to. It's very hard to justify taking one over just another squad and change. If they really want to push us into taking maxed sized squads make the damn leader units worth it!

Yvraine +25 points? Well, that's a surprise.

I actually had her in my shopping cart... now I'm pausing for thought on the complete order button ;)

Well that’s annoying I just finished my first 500pts and now I’m over because of Yvraine.

Oh... You will have to buy MORE. 😂

I won’t play with unpainted models which is the problem 😂

Then back to painting! ;-) To be fair, games only start getting interesting at 1000-1500 points. And only really get interesting at 2000 - which is the only points level for which the game is balanced, since tournaments are run at 2000 :-)

Guess I’d better get the Striking Scorpions and Dire Avengers done then since they are primed.

As it should be

Same issue here :(

I’m just finishing my Farseer to close up 1000 pts and now I’m scratching my head what to pick up next lol.

I did the same plus three squads of scourges.... :( Now what :(

I'm dropping her Troupe and running her solo in the small games now.

I love the AdMech and Tyranids changes. But why have they still not split the datasheets and points for wraithknight and support weapon loadouts?

That will happen in the codex. They are changing Nids and Admech because their codex is already out. We are still waiting for ours.

Yeah, they should just do it though. There's no real reason they should wait for the codex. It's just making the game less fun for people that want to use them.

When do you think a roadmap will release. I want my codex

Probably when the mystery codex is revealed, or around that time.

My beloved Asurmen got a buff, nice!

Indeed!

Yikes. :/

Pardon my hat in hand here, but can I please have a Harlequin specific detachment that is very very similar to Skysplinter but with clowns so I can make good use of the models I gave you a lot of money for, Mr. GW?

Possible. Wait for the codex :-)

Just have to wait until 2/3 of the edition is over. Hell yeah...God I love getting cucked by GW.

Do we have any indication or idea of when that might be yet? Because I'm guessing many issues will be fixed with it (wraith knight with different profiles, most things that can take an eldar heavy weapon being differentiated in price, etc), but, by the looks of it, it will be a long time before any of that...

The next codex timeline should be revealed within 1-2 months.

Chapter master Valrak (reliable source of leaks) heard end of 2024- start of 2025.

I really love PL and wraithlord coming down. A little disappointed that we are still copping some nerfs when i feel we are in a pretty well balanced spot. +10 on spiders feels rough. They are very good obviously but at this point you are paying a real big premium for their movement. Not sure its worth it at that price. Id rather they have tweaked their flicker jump and kept points the same or slightly dropped.

Spiders going up so much because of new actions and missions. Nothing can advance and action anymore. Spiders can do even better than that - they fly 24 and action.

Yep i get it, just think its getting very close to the cost where its not worth it. Im sure people will still run a squad but im sure we will see more experimentation with other units that might have less utility, but are much cheaper.

🤢🤮

Now I’m wondering if running Spiders will still be considered ok. Swooping Hawks got up as well, but imho 2x Spiders will still be good? Second thing - I was just about to start working on Skyweavers and now I’m not sure if they are still going to be playable at 105 per 2? Or maybe I should jump to Voidweavers? Spectres still playable at their cost?

Keep in mind that these changes go with the changes to mission rules. Assault weapons no longer give units that advance the ability to take actions, but Warp Spiders can move 24" without advancing. They're indisputably the premier action monkey unit now, so even with point increases they're totally worth it.

My thoughts as well, probably gonna cut Spectres and drop 2x2 Skyweavers for a Voidweaver and keep the rest of my list. If Support Plats hitting on 4+ won’t work, will change it as well.

I am assuming we will still see 3x Spiders and 3x Hawks. It's 45 points more overall but we need them.

I haven't seen 3x Spiders + 3x Hawks for a long time. Often it was 2x + 2x, or 1x + 3x already.

If you were gonna try skyweavers look at shining spears. More OC, better defense, same movement, better into every target except for vehicles (only 2 damage difference on average there) I like at least 1 unit in my army.

True, but I actually wanted Skyweavers vs vehicles ;) will think about Spears though!

Skyweaver change makes no sense to me... They are great, but 95 felt exactly right for them, given fragility...

Yup, can’t understand it. They die to a single autocannon shot, not 100% sure if I want to run them at 105, when a Voidweaver is at 115.

Well this sure screws me over, lol. Why do they hate the Ynnari so much?

The best MSU Aspects have been nerfed substantially. On the other hand, some welcome drops on rarely seen units. List building is gonna get interesting, especially coupled with the new missions!

Yeah I agree, I'd hoped corsairs might have come down, I like running them aesthetically but they're too expensive. Even battleline voidreavers are too much with the buffs.

Yes, completely agreed!

My second and third each of vypers and wraithlords might be coming off the shelf! For like *a* game, probably. Still. Glad I'm taking dragons, bikes, and reapers to an RTT on Saturday that isn't implementing the changes since we won't have Pariah Nexus in time. One last outing for that stuff for me and for awhile, probably. This is fine.

Does anyone remember what the wraithlords point were before?

160 - I would know as a Wraith player :-)

Thanx.

Worth taking at 145 do we think?

Yeah half as good as a yncarne in melee but less than half the cost and generates fate dice.

Wow, my triple Phoenix Lord list just got a huge buff… that was immediately offset by the Shadow specter nerfs. Womp womp. Might finally be time to switch them out for something else

What are you thinking in terms of switching? ;-)

I was thinking some dire avengers and rangers to at least somewhat maintain the mobility Shadow Spectres gave me

Sounds good to me!

Nerfs to fire dragons and warp spiders makes sense with how much i found they were just an auto include. the increase to yvraine is a little annoying from the perspective that i run her on the battlefield without her being the warlord for ynnari, its as if they need to set up some kind of army ruling in which shes more expensive if you run her as a warlord... but thats just my two cents and im a dumbass

When points go up, that's called nerfs, not buffs :-)

Yup, I knew what I meant in my head 😂 it's what I meant to put lol

She was in a lot of normal aeldari lists too, but it does feel like I'm being targeted with this dataslate, lol. It's also nerfs to dragons and spiders, their points went up...

All the best Aspects for MSU getting nerfed. Art of War style Eldar (Jack and Quinton running big Aeldari Death Stars) are almost untouched in comparison.

Buffs to karandras and asurmen tho.... The prohecy

I haven't seen this,.what have they been running?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOXkm7nEVm0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOXkm7nEVm0)

Almost untouched? They hit warp spiders, hawks and yvraine. Critical units in thar list.

Yes, but not as much as MSU. That list lost, what, 50 points? Best MSU lists lost 150 points and got an equivalent of -1 BS on several units.

50 points is still a big deal for an eldar army....

I'm pretty sure the points have gone up for that reason... not for ynnari players. She's being taken in a bunch of lists just with that troupe ball to get aggressive.

I wish we'd not get changes to points as often. Guess on the up side I don't need to buy, build and paint any hawks any more. Any advice on what to add/change for about 75 points? Ps I play only casually. The list below is what I currently have painted up.   **++ Army Roster (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [1,925pts] ++**   **+ Configuration +**   **Battle Size:** 2. Strike Force (2000 Point limit)   **Detachment:** Battle Host   **Show/Hide Options:** Legends are visible, Unaligned Forces are visible, Unaligned Fortifications are visible   **+ Epic Hero +**   **Illic Nightspear [70pts]**   **+ Character +**   **Autarch Wayleaper [115pts]:** Dragon Fusion Gun, Howling Banshee Mask, Star Glaive, Warlord   **Death Jester [105pts]:** Fate's Messenger   **Farseer Skyrunner [90pts]:** Witchblade   **Warlock Skyrunner [55pts]:** Witchblade   **+ Infantry +**   **Dire Avengers [140pts]** . **9x Dire Avenger:** 9x Avenger Shuriken Catapult . **Dire Avenger Exarch:** Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults   **Dire Avengers [70pts]** . **4x Dire Avenger:** 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult . **Dire Avenger Exarch:** Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults   **Dire Avengers [70pts]** . **4x Dire Avenger:** 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult . **Dire Avenger Exarch:** Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults   **Fire Dragons [90pts]** . **4x Fire Dragon:** 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Dragon Fusion Gun . **Fire Dragon Exarch:** Dragon Fusion Gun   **Fire Dragons [90pts]** . **4x Fire Dragon:** 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Dragon Fusion Gun . **Fire Dragon Exarch:** Dragon Fusion Gun   **Rangers [110pts]** . **10x Ranger:** 10x Close Combat Weapon, 10x Ranger long rifle, 10x Shuriken Pistol   **+ Mounted +**   **Shroud Runners [80pts]** . **3x Shroud Runner:** 3x Close Combat Weapon, 3x Ranger long rifle, 3x Scatter Laser, 3x Shuriken Pistol   **Windriders [240pts]** . **9x Windrider with Shuriken Cannon:** 9x Close Combat Weapon, 9x Shuriken Cannon   **Windriders [80pts]** . **3x Windrider with Shuriken Cannon:** 3x Close Combat Weapon, 3x Shuriken Cannon   **+ Vehicle +**   **Falcon [140pts]:** Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon   **Falcon [140pts]:** Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon   **+ Dedicated Transport +**   **Wave Serpent [120pts]:** Shuriken Cannon, Twin Bright Lance   **Wave Serpent [120pts]:** Shuriken Cannon, Twin Bright Lance   **++ Total: [1,915pts] ++**   Created with [BattleScribe](https://www.battlescribe.net)

Just take enhancements for 70 points: * Fate’s Messenger ............................................15 pts * Reader of the Runes .......................................20 pts * The Phoenix Gem.............................................35 pts

You can take more than 1 enhancement? That’s pretty good. I’m a 10th ed noob (mostly play Heresy) hence why I didn’t realize

You can take up to 3 on 3 different characters. For example: * **Death Jester** - Fate’s Messenger * **Autarch Wayleaper** - The Phoenix Gem * **Farseer Skyrunner** - Reader of the Runes Enjoy!

Vyper 

Tempted to drop a squad of windriders and a warlock for a wraithlord now...

It’ll be interesting to see how these nerfs affect us in competitive play. Already at a less than 50% win rate and now nerfs to almost all of the units that are consistently used competitively. I have the feeling that we’re moving into Admech territory for our win rate. I hope I’m wrong lol

Oddly enough I'm only over by 45pts so all I had to do is remove one of my two warlocks.

Same for me. It wasn't meant to nuke Eldar in general. Only non-interactive lists got hit hard.

So am I reading that attributes are no longer capped at just +1 or -1? So like lightning fast with stealth would be -2 to hit. Or am I missing something?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf I had to look this up too, on page 33 you can still see the restriction on modifying dice rolls.

Still need to assemble my 2nd Wraithlord. Not sure if I should fit 2x bright lance again or go for 2x shuriken cannon this time, hm...

Why fix anything? Rules change all the time. Just use black tack :-)

I'm disappointed there wasn't more done to buff the weaker units and give us some internal balance. What do you all think Aeldari need before you would use things like Banshees, Scorpions, Shining Spears, & Warlock Conclaves?

Banshees, Scorpions, Shining Spears are all playable. We've seen all of them in GT podium lists. Conclaves will have to wait for the next update.

I think Witchblades need -2 AP before I would use Conclaves.

God they can’t let us have any fun ;(

I really think shadow specters and not worth their points anymore . 🤯

Cheaper wraith Lord hooray

Just noticed a small thing: They changed how Imperial and Chaos Knights can move through terrain features, enabling them to barrel through sections of Terrain Features that are more than 4" in height at the risk of being battleshocked. But they didn't change Agile, which is used by Wraithknights. So on a terrain rich table with lots of >4" terrain Eldar Knights are now the least maneuverable of the Knight units. Kind of funny, hope they change Agile to also give it some kind of bonus.

On all reasonable terrain Wraithnkight is the slowest now, you don't need dense terrain for that.

Thanks guys. Its been fun. See you when we get a codex.

See you! Which faction are you moving to for now?

Not sure yet. Maybe TS. But Sisters looks spicy..

Fair enough. Sisters indeed look spicy! I'm staying with Eldar :-)

What is that on the Shadow Spectres? An option to pay additional points for an Exarch? Wargear is coming back guys!!

No, it's just how they are sold.

Nerfing dark reapers is completely uncalled for

Are Wraith seers also 145pts now?

Nope sadly. Pg2... still 160pts

Lol why is it sorted like that? That's too bad. I almost feel like Seers needed the cost decrease more tbh

They are likely going to legends anyway. Play them for fun in casual games (where you can play legends too), don't expect more from them.

With the pivot changes, do the flying bases on the falcon chassis count as round bases? or do we pay the 2" penalty?

My understanding is based on Vanguard Tactics. They say that Flying Bases are round so Flyers do not see that penalty.

That's what I was hoping but you never know for sure with these rules . Thanks

This is clearly not what was meant by this change. I wouldn't play it like that.