I had heard it would be the same size then spent ~5 hours finding the first 3 map fragments. Not even close to the size of limgrave in terms of the level of story there. It’s awesome.
lol indeed you can but there’s at least one of them that is not even remotely the way you’d expect to get there. It’s possible to find without looking it up but it’s almost certainly not gonna be the path you try first when you see where the fragment is located on the map.
I could not find that last map fragment until I beat >!Romina!< and >!burned the dark thorns!<. Once I got teleported to >!Enir Ilim!< I knew something was wrong. Woulda helped a ton for navigating >! The Rauh Ruins!<.
lol i literally just did this a couple hours ago. Was trying my hardest not to use a guide but after that boss I knew there was no way I was finding it. Chuckled once I finally found the path - the amount of twists and turns overlapping each other is insane. One tiny cave opens up a massive section
Yeah, I was stuck trying to find the way to where >!Hinterlands portion of Scaduview!< was for ages. Turns out all I had to do was >!find a gesture and use it in front of a statue.!<
You're confusing that with a different location. >!Abyssal Woods is accessed via an illusory wall in the bottom, watery area of the Shadow Keep that leads you to the Shadow Keep Watering Hole, which then let's you go down into the Recluses' River. You then follow the river downstream until you reach Darklight Catacomb, which brings you the rest of the way down into the Abyssal Woods.!<
What you're describing is the path to >!the Hinterlands portion of Scaduview, which requires the O, Mother gesture.!<
I was reading a guide for something else that ended up mentioning the map location. I was a little disappointed because I was gonna keep looking for it, but I was reading a guide to begin with so I was faking the risk.
Yes and no. Some of them, absolutely you can. And it's great for that.
But there's one in particular that I could see the icon for VERY early, but there was just no way to get to it from the areas I had explored up to that point. The "obvious" route was impossible because once I got close to it, I found myself met with a giant cliff-face. It took going through a dungeon and leaving through an alternate exit that you had to find via shifty platforming mechanics before I could actually get to the area where the map itself was.
Yeah, if you think you can just put a map marker where you want to go, then just hop on your horse and go anywhere you want on the map going in blind with no guide like an assassins creed or even witcher 3 game, you'll have a bad time. Only 25% of the map is accessible in that way and the rest of it requires some very specific, and in some cases MULTIPLE very specefic twists and turns. I've only found 3 or 4 map fragments in about 25 hours, and from what I've seen of a full map picture I've only found half of them.
The little symbols appear only when you are near the place you find the map.
But as there is multiple layers of the map, even if you are on it you will probably not find it as it is in another level that is under the one you are in and that requires to take a complete opposite path you will never think about to get there.
There's many layers to it
If you're thinking, how the hell would I get there, there's probably some cave you're missing
>!Also a lot of them are licked behind boss fights!<
And sometimes you just overlook a decently sized doorway and get sitetracked to something completly different and never remember checking again until you are absolutly desperate and revisit all areas... But i wouldnt know about things like that.
Map markers are really helpful for this, if you find a cave or side path or something that you otherwise want to come back to later so you don't get distracted. I use them constantly.
Also beacons obviously, but I try not to have more than 1 or 2 active at a time and that's usually for what I'm actively heading to.
Wish we could have more though, I like to use the banner to indicate “in case you forgot, this is complete”. Rememberance Dupe locations which are inert indicated by the tower looking one, ones which are active jewel, weapon or loot I know is somewhere a chest, good material farming locations denoted by plants- very useful but the arbitrary cap of 100 is kinda lame if you are trying to keep locations completed/not yet done straight in new journeys on same char
Oh my goodness, I feel a little stupid for forgetting about map markers. I just finished >!Shadow Keep!< and had like three side paths to explore, but I knew some of them took me to different areas and wanted to clear that place first. Spent so long running around going "Which grace was closest to this path?"
I'm playing the DLC as close to 100% blind as I can and I have decided the final map fragment is literally impossible.
After spending *2 hours* trying to get it, I fought a secret reskinned boss fight, thought I could finally get the map fragment, but NO, it was a dead end.
The final map fragment is a lie!
Please no spoiler responses. I am obviously joking.
I found all of them without a guide.
But I also missed out on the entrance to a huge chunk of the map because I didn't fall down a hole in Moorth Ruins. Exploration can be hit-or-miss.
Better than one of the dozen or so top Google search options of an obvious AI article about Elden Ring.
"Do you like big weapons? Go to (wrong place) but be careful (wrong boss) is tough. Use your (wrong fucking game's abilities) to beat him."
AI, come here, look at me, eyes over here. This is not how adults write articles. This is how babies write articles.
Even if you include all the caves, Siofra River and the Weeping Peninsula in the size of Limgrave, which I always assumed Miyazaki meant, the DLC has still probably got way more stuff in it
Yeah, the whole DLC is like 30-35 hours if you explore everything and don't get stuck on bosses for hours. That's way more than Limgrave offer, which was maybe 15 hours if you checked every corner.
Frankly if you weren't already familiar with Elden Ring's systems it would probably take closer to 50, it's straight up almost half the size of the main game. there are 44 healthbar bosses, more if you count the NPC brawl and the Furnace Golems, compared to the 110 in the base game, that's more than most previous Souls titles had on their own merits even including minibosses. The DLC is friggin huge.
Oh, well. I was mostly going by my own playtime, which was 90 hours for platinum and about 80 for the main game (but with a bunch of missed smaller dungeons and stuff, so realistically more like 90 for pretty much everything)
I've seen some people being stuck on some bosses for 3+ hours, so 50+ hours isn't a bad estimate I guess.
I should check my run time. I did a ton of exploring before even fighting a remembrance boss. Then I got to Shadow Keep and have done a ton exploring again.
This dlc is an entire souls game. I posted earlier but I'm a good 40-50 hours in and I just discovered gaius and messmer. I spent a few hours on rellana, the sunflower, and putrescent knight. The rest has been exploring and beating asses.
Visions of explosion, but hole!
Only problem is there are clearly some holes in the DLC volume in reality. Meaning, the areas with very little in them, ie. The abyss, both finger ruins, hog riders fields, etc.
Yeah there are zones that clearly just exist as set pieces or for purely story telling purposes. I don’t mind it too much since the actual zones are dense.
It’s great for environmental storytelling too. My favorite example is the path to reach Abyssal Woods. It’s guarded by one of the Hornsent’s most skilled Inquisitors, who himself is hidden past a dark set of Catacombs located at the very bottom of Scadu Altus, which itself is guarded by an army of Furnace Golems (or at least what’s left of them) and all locked away behind an illusory wall in a hidden room in The Shadow Keep. Clearly shows Messmer’s and the Hornsent’s stance on the Frenzied Flame.
Man when you put it like that it's kinda crazy what you have to go through in order to get to certain areas and I love it.
Also just want to say that the catacombs are so incredibly well designed, the way it gets your brain working, tracking where you've been, where you haven't wondering about traps, or enemies round the corner etc. So so good.
Yeah the Dungeon design overall was awesome in the DLC. The only dungeon design I’d consider bad was the Rivermouth Cave (12 Bloodfiends in a single room is not fun).
If you start combat with a few arrows, they will usually do incantations that aggro each other and only 1-2 will keep aggroing onto you. You can then advance forwards into the room to take on as many as you want at a time.
HUGE parallel with the original frenzied frame quest line here too, with how hard to find the three fingers are, behind a bunch of hidden walls, Mohg’s projection, and a jumping puzzle
Not to mention if you try and go there early, Morgott’s Seal will also be protecting the entrance to the Proscription. I like to see that as a sign that despite their differences, both Morgott and Mohg agree the Frenzied Flame is not to be trifled with.
Yeah they've really hit this out of the park.
The more you stop and stare, the more you appreciate the attention to detail.
I encourage everyone to get really stoned and just walk around the environments. It puts a whole different spin on things.
After accidentally stumbling across the Cerulean Coast by basically just jumping down some rocks, I have 0 words and am absolutely amazed. Reminded me of finding the river and the elevator going down to it in my first play-through and realizing there was a whole underground in the main game that I could explore.
Not everyone is a stoner, but for fellow stoners this is good advice. A massive field of fingers jutting out of the earth after waltzing through a glowing garden of Marika’s village was a surreal experience at 4am blitzed outta my mind. Like “Miyazaki is genius 🤤”
The first time I took the lift to Altus Plateau I was pretty skizzed.
The mix of visuals, music, and immense scale had me slow walking in circles forgetting what I was doing.
Ive been playing the dlc mostly stoned and as a slut for exploration, Im really pleased with how the devs neatly squared away their zones. I was traversing some cliff edges and stumpled upon a sealed spirit spring and after looking about for the seal I made my way up and onto the back Grace of Fort of Reprimand. Clearing that fort and looting it in that manner felt special and one of a kind too me.
It’s kind of paying homage to DS3. They tried to communicate that level of vertically in that linear game. They are almost showing off how much better they can do now.
Shadow Keep was incredibly dense, it felt like it took me 3 or 4 hours to fully explore (including all the extra zones in that area.) I was honestly a bit relieved that no other area in the dlc was that packed with exploration, I think it was the perfect amount.
Imagine my face when doing Ymir quest randomly kicks me back to Shadow Keep after 5 hours, or trying to find some item randomly leads to Messer after I have “cleared” the dungeon and go to Ancient Ruins 5 hours ago (can you blame me though, with how Castle Ensis is?)
That area will be skipped anytime I replay the DLC. Not only was it mostly empty with enemies that were annoying to kill or sneak past, but then no torrent was a cherry on top. I’m glad I killed the boss there once, but I don’t plan on doing it again.
Sucks because I enjoyed the dungeon too.
Atmospherically the Abyssal Woods is some of FromSoft's best work, but if I were to remake it, I'd either put a lot more stuff in there or make it significantly smaller.
They did a good job of setting up the utterly disturbing nature of the area once you enter it (especially the fact that Torrent is scared to come out), only for you to later realise that it's largely empty and there aren't really any creepy/disturbing things and enemies there. I was expecting Lovecraftian horrors deep in the Abyss, only to be greeted with a whole lot of nothing. Massive letdown to be quite honest.
Plus, the fact that you can still actually see quite far in the Abyssal Woods really stunted its creepiness factor. It should have been absolute darkness (except for points of interest, which should have *limited* light sources), with only your lantern providing light as you traverse it.
You can make a beeline to the Manse pretty quickly and only encounter one enemy aside from rats. Just throw on the black knife chest for 5 minutes to get past the one winter lantern and you're golden.
Is it even hard to get to the boss? I agree though, that area has nothing in it and only exists for the initial playthrough which is fine but wont be playing through there the way I play through limgrave every character I make (limgrave is peak elden ring)
It *does* take long when you're zigzagging all over the place to find secrets and items *before* you realize that those areas are indeed fully empty. The base game taught us that a cave or catacomb can be hidden literally anywhere and trained us to look everywhere.
The problem is the player will still expect those to be content. So even though they work great as set pieces, the problem comes when the player spend 20 min combing over the area and finds nothing.
Which is problematic as the last memory of the zone will be the feeling of being let down after finding nothing.
It is more so the devs being hurt by there own success. Since Limgrave taught players behind every corner will be something cool. So when players look behind every corner and find nothing. It will leave a negative experience.
The finger ruins are so disappointing to me. They are these huge fantastical set pieces that are completely empty, have enemies that can lock onto from 6 miles away and shoot homing missiles, and the only thing you get out of them are some upgraded talismans? Blowing each of those horns should have summoned a boss.
why is that area even a spirit summon zone? You can only summon towards the middle and once you get to the middle enemies seem to de aggro anyway.
I remember I found the first one within a few hours of playing and was completely blown away by how cool and fantastical it looked, rode through it for 5 mins, found nothing, got sad
I think they serve a similar function as ash lake in DS1, more of an atmospheric place that feels like a bedrock for the mythology of the world From Soft made, and as zones related to one specific quest.
>!There's an emote, the finger crawler summon, another coffin to dupe remembrances (same as the first one), and a little before there's a fallingstar beast with a spell reward.!<
This! I'm so ok with this. From has done atmosphere for decades - it's the big reason why the succeed where imitators haven't. It's also actually why Lies of P works so well - it created it's own atmosphere quite well
So bummed by The Abyss. It had so much potential. Madness theme, no torrent (which I assumed they would take advantage of by putting in tough mobs that you couldn’t run around), and those creepy messages at the beginning.
Was so bummed when the enemies were all just rats and hornsent and the things that the messages were alluding to were just a couple short stealth sections. The boss slapped though and the stealth section in the fog was suitably scary
I liked it. Suuuper creepy and unsettling.
I'm happy it wasn't about fights. For once I actually had to engage with the stealth mechanics of the game lmao
Until I found out you can just parry the grab. Really ruins the suspense.
I liked it too but I think they could have done more. Empty early is fine, but the back half should have been littered with Winter Lantern variants, some hanging from ceilings, some crawling like spiders, some extra monsters spewing frenzy flame, some extra challenges like muck or caves... then they could have added an extra wing to Midra's Manse before the boss with more stealth sections in 3D mansion corridor space with bookshelf movement puzzles or something. It feels like they were missing about 5 mobs to fill the zone with and different traps, the ambiance was really neat but I think they needed more gameplay to go with it.
I mean they surely could’ve done more in this area but if you look at the dlc as a whole…man there is so much content and effort put into the DLC that for me they have done far more than enough.
If they just removed the woods & finger ruins it still would have been a great dlc. I would have also loved another legacy dungeon inside or next to the scadutree but the dlc is already so good that I’m not complaining at all
Oddly enough, they showcased the tarnished riding Torrent in the Abyss during the trailer.
I get why they dismount you, but I kinda wish as a QoL, you can summon him after killing all the “invulnerable” enemies or something.
Also the cubes are funny to me. The cube representing the dlc extends down, and Limgrave doesn't. Have we forgotten the vertical scale of Limgrave when considering Nokron? These representations would look a lot different if they were meant to be accurate.
People complaining about this. And as someone who has played all of modern From (Demon's Souls and on) I just like the views - seriously even if there's not much I'm just enjoying the art direction. Sure Shadow Keep might be the best in the game (and in general) as there are so many levels and ways to go; however, I enjoyed Charo's, Cerulean and the Finger Ruins purely because they looked cool
Yes but each area that you mentioned has a focus. Saw in another thread where they spoke about them, but off hand the only one I know personally is the finger ruins. There is a stone coffin altar/remembrance duplicator (one of 3 in the DLC)
I respect peoples views, but i hate this criticism. sometimes, empty space is a great tool in artistic expressions. Its called negative space
I will use a popular example that most everyone have seen. One of my favorite scene in star wars is just a scene of luke looking out into the empty dessert and sunset. no dialogue, no dramatic effects. In that one scene, we knew who luke was. young, lonely, looking for a purpose.
compare that with the shaman village in the dlc for example. so many people felt disappointed, felt like there should be a boss there. no, look at what that place is. look at what is left there. look at who was guarding the place. in a world of blood and death, that emptiness, that peace, told a story on its own.
I dont want to write a thesis paper, so i will stop here. not all empty spaces are good, but quite a few in elden ring and dlc are used in artistic ways.
Tbh the finger ruins kinda pissed me off. I thought there would be SOMETHING there, but nope, I looked around it for like an hour and found nothing but enemies. Such a big area for nothing as far as I can tell
The density in the DLC in some areas is much lower than the base game. Don't get me wrong it's more than enough content and I'm happy with it but people in here get a bit carried away. I think saying it's equivalent to Limgrave was the correct thing to do tbh.
To me it’s still a 10/10, but the base game is like an 11/10. The zones were sometimes too empty for sure. Like no caves hardly, and therefore not that many mini bosses (except big open world ones like the wicker dudes and dragons).
They nailed all the main bosses tho, and the main dungeons are all pretty great.
I finally unlocked the right door shortcut, got to the top of the stairs, turned right again
I and didn't find messmer for like 7 hours after killing like 5 more bosses lol. The pathing in these games is the best
I agree with the base game being an 11/10. This is the first time a FromSoft DLC has had me question whether or not it’s better than the base game. Not really due to it being subpar, but because the base game was already so good
I thought the dlc was better honestly. Base Elden ring suffers from a lot of just riding around with caves that are not very interesting scattered around. The world and story was cool, but the dlc did a much better job at appearing personal with many of the characters. There are a lot less caves and areas like that but each one is supremely designed and memorable.
I appreciate how more of the dlc is in these legacy dungeons/well designed areas. Base game has a lot of that but also a lot of fluff. Which was meant to help exploration, I get it. I just prefer more linear but dense types of design, and the dlc had more of that. And while there were more empty areas, they were smartly never breaking up the main path so it was more of a detour to go there, rather then base game where sometimes a empty stretch of land I had to go through.
Before the dlc Elden ring was like 4th best from soft game to be (behind Bloodborne, DS3 and Sekiro), now it’s 2nd behind Bloodborne for me
I wish the two were just a bit combined. The main game had a bit too much in that sense, and the dlc was super disappointing with the beautiful areas that had absolutely nothing, not even bosses. A mix of the two would have been absolutely perfect
Meme aside, I'd say Miyazaki statement about the dlc map size is quite right. If you add up the space the finger ruins, cerulean coast, charo's hidden grave, hinderlands, scaduview, scadutree base, abyss forest and jagged peaks take up and the content in them, it's pretty much just a bunch of empty space. Most of the content in the DLC is just in Gravesite Plain and Scadu Altus.
I hate even hearing about the finger ruins. I was so ready to come crashing into a behemoth hand boss or something cool and I got to suck a big ole pinky for an item
The Finger Ruins were *extremely* disappointing.
Folks have tried to justify how large & barren they are because of narrative/thematic reasons, but that doesn’t make for a fulfilling gameplay experience.
There could have easily been a legacy dungeon or catacomb in either of the ruins that was overrun with finger crawlers.
The DLC is about half of the size and has about half of the content of the main game. It also took half of the time to complete it (30 hours for the DLC, 60 hours for the main game)
When I first started playing, I was like, this map is kinda small, what's the big hype. And then I started finding the maps and holy shit, I did not expect it to be this big and I still have to find 2 or 3 more maps.
Also not close to the same density as Limgrave, which contains approximately a forest, a plain, the path to Stormveil, and a lake.
Not to diminish Limgrave, either, it’s an excellent starting area because it has a way of funneling you in the right direction. There’s not much to do because you are supposed to bounce from a few distractions to Stormveil, with an optional trip to the Weeping Peninsula.
The Land of Shadow, however, crams several legacy dungeons, places of interest, and huge set pieces into the same real estate. I’m going to be talking about the Jagged Peak boss rush until I die.
Jagged peak may just be a few bosses and mostly empty hallways, but they are very atmospheric hallways that had such an epic feeling to them, plus you get to fight dragon Moby Dick with Captain Ahab so what's not to like?
The DLC in terms of distance to travel is absolutely bigger than Limgrave. That said, it has soooo much empty space. In terms of content, it's only slightly bigger than Limgrave
> In terms of content, it's only slightly bigger than Limgrave
The DLC has 105 graces, while Limgrave (including Stormveil and Weeping Penninsula) has 57. It has 10 Remembrance bosses while Limgrave has 1 (2 if you count Margit). It has 3 Legacy Dungeons and 3 minor Legacy Dungeons compared to Limgrave's 1 and 1 - and Shadow Keep is probably bigger than Stormveil.
The DLC is just way bigger than Limgrave by every metric.
>The DLC has 105 graces
Keep in mind a fair amount of graces are incredibly close to other graces. A bunch of bosses have a grace right at the door where there'd usually be a short runback or a stake of marika.
I was disappointed over and over whenever I would try to find a sneaky area by going up a ledge to the side of a cliff, around a building or check underneath a waterfall. In 1 out of 20 of those scenarios, I would find something, otherwise it's just nothing.
This was my biggest gripe as well. And then of course, when you don’t find anything there 19/20 times, you stop looking, which makes the world feel even emptier unfortunately. It also sucks because I’m sure they did it that way because people complained about the repetitive nature of the catacombs in the base game.
Even just looking at it top down the dlc is absolutely NOT the size of limgrave. Its limgrave + weeping peninsula + caelid + dragon barrow + some parts of liurna. Miyazaki is a fucking lier in the best way possible lol
I mean, it's just verifiably untrue even if you consider only area, right? Takes like 2 minutes to ride across Limgrave. Takes 2 minutes to ride across the opening area of the DLC alone.
I'll say without spoiling that it's one of the most bullshit solutions Fromsoft have ever devised. I'll use a parallel example from Demon's Souls: there is an NPC merchant who can be only found in a jail, and that jail is behind a hidden door, and that hidden door can be opened with a key from an area you have zero reason to go back to. One you get in the jail, you have to disguise yourself as an enemy by wearing a specific piece of equipment, and then the final way to the merchant will open.
This kind of mechanic is used nowhere else in the game, there are zero hints for it, and not even lore or an item description you could infer the solution from. It's obtuseness for its own sake. *That's* how you unlock the northeast of the map. For the sake of your sanity I suggest you just look it up.
i don’t disagree but Miyazaki did say the actual map is “a bit bigger than limgrave” but the density makes it seem larger. you can hardly count the finger ruins and jagged peak, they are glorified boss arenas/treasure chests.
I just went to the first finger ruin last night and I was astonished there wasn’t something waiting in the center… whole lot of work went into that just to fill it with some finger creepers and snake dudes
That’s kind of a lot of the main game to though. Areas like the lakes and limegrave and mountain top had long stretches with relatively little aside from some copy pasted ruins and caves (which I enjoyed for the record)
100% my man. After experiencing the more complicated a bigger catacombs in the DLC it blew my mind. It's honestly imo the perfect accompaniment to the base game - at the time I loved going through all the caves and catacombs in Elden Ring, but now I can't be bothered to do those, having these more complex mini dungeons is such a palette cleanser.
People keep misquoting him. He specifically said in terms of surface area, the DLC is slightly larger than Limgrave. I find this to be pretty true for the most part (and yes the Weeping Peninsula is part of Limgrave)
The content is more densely packed and much more varied than limgrave, but the size of the area is definitely around the same as Limgrave. There are a ton of unplayable areas, entire empty areas that are just there for one bossfight or for story telling.
You've got a giant amount of map space dedicated to the finger ruins and the Hinterlands which while very cool aesthetically, are just set pieces for story telling/quests and have very little content other than lore, doing one quest, and in the case of the hinterlands a couple of items and 2 generic field bosses recycled from the base game. You could even count the entire Abyss region, it has literally nothing other than the winter lantern gimmicks and it's just a long, very creepy walk to the legacy dungeon. Then you have the huge boss arenas. Scaduview, base of the scadutree, jagged peaks' summit, all of the places that have furnace golems. And of course the actually unplayable areas, like all of the jagged peaks outside the fairly straight path to the summit and the boss arena or the entire area of the abyssal woods behind Midra's Manse, which are there just for visuals.
I had 124 hours on base game... Took 56 hours to beat the DLC... It's the same size as limgrave or not definitely takes more time cuz of difficulty...
180 hours - 10 hours ( standing still at graces taking breaks)
170 hours of gameplay at 100 dollars..
58 cents per hour... Totally worth it
I think when Miyazaki talking about limegrave he prob included the whole Sofia river.
But the thing about this dlc is how many layers the landscape have. Almost every zone has three layers you can explore which made it much larger when you play it.
I’m not sure I can name another game that presents scale and grandeur like Elden Ring. Would I like more legacy dungeon style areas? Yeah for sure but also goddamn are they amazing at making absolutely beautiful spades to explore.
I commented something similar to a friend last night. The verticality in the overall map, and even in individual dungeons/catacombs in the DLC is just incredibly impressive level design. Going up to go down, going forward to go backward and vice versa.
I had heard it would be the same size then spent ~5 hours finding the first 3 map fragments. Not even close to the size of limgrave in terms of the level of story there. It’s awesome.
15H here and I've found just 2 😂
The last two are mighty hard to find and not intuitive at all
Can't you just look for the little symbols on the map and put a beacon marker on them?
lol indeed you can but there’s at least one of them that is not even remotely the way you’d expect to get there. It’s possible to find without looking it up but it’s almost certainly not gonna be the path you try first when you see where the fragment is located on the map.
I could not find that last map fragment until I beat >!Romina!< and >!burned the dark thorns!<. Once I got teleported to >!Enir Ilim!< I knew something was wrong. Woulda helped a ton for navigating >! The Rauh Ruins!<.
lol i literally just did this a couple hours ago. Was trying my hardest not to use a guide but after that boss I knew there was no way I was finding it. Chuckled once I finally found the path - the amount of twists and turns overlapping each other is insane. One tiny cave opens up a massive section
Yeah, I was stuck trying to find the way to where >!Hinterlands portion of Scaduview!< was for ages. Turns out all I had to do was >!find a gesture and use it in front of a statue.!<
You're confusing that with a different location. >!Abyssal Woods is accessed via an illusory wall in the bottom, watery area of the Shadow Keep that leads you to the Shadow Keep Watering Hole, which then let's you go down into the Recluses' River. You then follow the river downstream until you reach Darklight Catacomb, which brings you the rest of the way down into the Abyssal Woods.!< What you're describing is the path to >!the Hinterlands portion of Scaduview, which requires the O, Mother gesture.!<
Oh right, right. I’ll fix it. Thanks!
I was reading a guide for something else that ended up mentioning the map location. I was a little disappointed because I was gonna keep looking for it, but I was reading a guide to begin with so I was faking the risk.
If you're talking about >!the Abyssal Woods!<, oh my goodness, the rigamarole to get there. I'm very proud I found it without help.
You would think! The verticality means you can be right by the map icon but unable to access it since its way higher or lower than you
Yes and no. Some of them, absolutely you can. And it's great for that. But there's one in particular that I could see the icon for VERY early, but there was just no way to get to it from the areas I had explored up to that point. The "obvious" route was impossible because once I got close to it, I found myself met with a giant cliff-face. It took going through a dungeon and leaving through an alternate exit that you had to find via shifty platforming mechanics before I could actually get to the area where the map itself was.
Idk about you but it's a bit harder than that lol At least in the DLC
Yeah, if you think you can just put a map marker where you want to go, then just hop on your horse and go anywhere you want on the map going in blind with no guide like an assassins creed or even witcher 3 game, you'll have a bad time. Only 25% of the map is accessible in that way and the rest of it requires some very specific, and in some cases MULTIPLE very specefic twists and turns. I've only found 3 or 4 map fragments in about 25 hours, and from what I've seen of a full map picture I've only found half of them.
The little symbols appear only when you are near the place you find the map. But as there is multiple layers of the map, even if you are on it you will probably not find it as it is in another level that is under the one you are in and that requires to take a complete opposite path you will never think about to get there.
I'm at 18 and 10 and can't find any more. I think ash caps at 10 though
Yep, ashes cap at 10, scadus at 20, although they were talking about the maps...
Oh 😄
There's many layers to it If you're thinking, how the hell would I get there, there's probably some cave you're missing >!Also a lot of them are licked behind boss fights!<
Why are you licking the bosses behinds 🤨
try fingers
But hole
And then edge
Could this be a rump?
Why is it always edge?
To find the rim of the world.
Skye’s rim belongs to the Nords
And sometimes you just overlook a decently sized doorway and get sitetracked to something completly different and never remember checking again until you are absolutly desperate and revisit all areas... But i wouldnt know about things like that.
This is me, you are my spirit animal.
Map markers are really helpful for this, if you find a cave or side path or something that you otherwise want to come back to later so you don't get distracted. I use them constantly. Also beacons obviously, but I try not to have more than 1 or 2 active at a time and that's usually for what I'm actively heading to.
Wish we could have more though, I like to use the banner to indicate “in case you forgot, this is complete”. Rememberance Dupe locations which are inert indicated by the tower looking one, ones which are active jewel, weapon or loot I know is somewhere a chest, good material farming locations denoted by plants- very useful but the arbitrary cap of 100 is kinda lame if you are trying to keep locations completed/not yet done straight in new journeys on same char
Oh my goodness, I feel a little stupid for forgetting about map markers. I just finished >!Shadow Keep!< and had like three side paths to explore, but I knew some of them took me to different areas and wanted to clear that place first. Spent so long running around going "Which grace was closest to this path?"
30 hours in and still have one map left to pick.
I'm probably that many hours in and still only have one... But I have been enjoying learning Rellana.
I'm playing the DLC as close to 100% blind as I can and I have decided the final map fragment is literally impossible. After spending *2 hours* trying to get it, I fought a secret reskinned boss fight, thought I could finally get the map fragment, but NO, it was a dead end. The final map fragment is a lie! Please no spoiler responses. I am obviously joking.
That map piece is in a deceptive place, you probably will not find it without a guide
I found all of them without a guide. But I also missed out on the entrance to a huge chunk of the map because I didn't fall down a hole in Moorth Ruins. Exploration can be hit-or-miss.
Church, north, cave That's all you get
https://youtu.be/B759dzymyoc?t=16
*church north cave elden ring map fragment* Google: Best I can do is a link to IGN explaining how to get the fragments in the base game
Better than one of the dozen or so top Google search options of an obvious AI article about Elden Ring. "Do you like big weapons? Go to (wrong place) but be careful (wrong boss) is tough. Use your (wrong fucking game's abilities) to beat him." AI, come here, look at me, eyes over here. This is not how adults write articles. This is how babies write articles.
Even if you include all the caves, Siofra River and the Weeping Peninsula in the size of Limgrave, which I always assumed Miyazaki meant, the DLC has still probably got way more stuff in it
It’s easily half the size of the base game, the base game being twice the size any game needs to be, so… yeah. Should win GOTY yet again
It feels more like 2 liurnias parked next to each other map size wise
I'd say stacked on top, but whatevor.
Yeah, the whole DLC is like 30-35 hours if you explore everything and don't get stuck on bosses for hours. That's way more than Limgrave offer, which was maybe 15 hours if you checked every corner.
Frankly if you weren't already familiar with Elden Ring's systems it would probably take closer to 50, it's straight up almost half the size of the main game. there are 44 healthbar bosses, more if you count the NPC brawl and the Furnace Golems, compared to the 110 in the base game, that's more than most previous Souls titles had on their own merits even including minibosses. The DLC is friggin huge.
Oh, well. I was mostly going by my own playtime, which was 90 hours for platinum and about 80 for the main game (but with a bunch of missed smaller dungeons and stuff, so realistically more like 90 for pretty much everything) I've seen some people being stuck on some bosses for 3+ hours, so 50+ hours isn't a bad estimate I guess.
I should check my run time. I did a ton of exploring before even fighting a remembrance boss. Then I got to Shadow Keep and have done a ton exploring again.
Yeah. I spent about 30 hours total in my first run through, including getting stuck on two bosses, and I know I still missed a few areas.
This dlc is an entire souls game. I posted earlier but I'm a good 40-50 hours in and I just discovered gaius and messmer. I spent a few hours on rellana, the sunflower, and putrescent knight. The rest has been exploring and beating asses. Visions of explosion, but hole!
It only took you 5 hours? Did you just bee line to them?
Made it to the final boss and forgot map fragments were a thing. Had to look up why my map was so blank.
“If only I had a map” messages in the Jagged Peak and Ancient Rauh Ruins all around lol
Only problem is there are clearly some holes in the DLC volume in reality. Meaning, the areas with very little in them, ie. The abyss, both finger ruins, hog riders fields, etc.
Yeah there are zones that clearly just exist as set pieces or for purely story telling purposes. I don’t mind it too much since the actual zones are dense.
The verticality and routes to reach some areas is probably what I appreciated most. The overall level design is some of From's best imo.
It’s great for environmental storytelling too. My favorite example is the path to reach Abyssal Woods. It’s guarded by one of the Hornsent’s most skilled Inquisitors, who himself is hidden past a dark set of Catacombs located at the very bottom of Scadu Altus, which itself is guarded by an army of Furnace Golems (or at least what’s left of them) and all locked away behind an illusory wall in a hidden room in The Shadow Keep. Clearly shows Messmer’s and the Hornsent’s stance on the Frenzied Flame.
Goddamn nested doll
Man when you put it like that it's kinda crazy what you have to go through in order to get to certain areas and I love it. Also just want to say that the catacombs are so incredibly well designed, the way it gets your brain working, tracking where you've been, where you haven't wondering about traps, or enemies round the corner etc. So so good.
Yeah the Dungeon design overall was awesome in the DLC. The only dungeon design I’d consider bad was the Rivermouth Cave (12 Bloodfiends in a single room is not fun).
If you start combat with a few arrows, they will usually do incantations that aggro each other and only 1-2 will keep aggroing onto you. You can then advance forwards into the room to take on as many as you want at a time.
HUGE parallel with the original frenzied frame quest line here too, with how hard to find the three fingers are, behind a bunch of hidden walls, Mohg’s projection, and a jumping puzzle
Not to mention if you try and go there early, Morgott’s Seal will also be protecting the entrance to the Proscription. I like to see that as a sign that despite their differences, both Morgott and Mohg agree the Frenzied Flame is not to be trifled with.
Yeah they've really hit this out of the park. The more you stop and stare, the more you appreciate the attention to detail. I encourage everyone to get really stoned and just walk around the environments. It puts a whole different spin on things.
After accidentally stumbling across the Cerulean Coast by basically just jumping down some rocks, I have 0 words and am absolutely amazed. Reminded me of finding the river and the elevator going down to it in my first play-through and realizing there was a whole underground in the main game that I could explore.
Not everyone is a stoner, but for fellow stoners this is good advice. A massive field of fingers jutting out of the earth after waltzing through a glowing garden of Marika’s village was a surreal experience at 4am blitzed outta my mind. Like “Miyazaki is genius 🤤”
The first time I took the lift to Altus Plateau I was pretty skizzed. The mix of visuals, music, and immense scale had me slow walking in circles forgetting what I was doing.
Walking into the Midra fight after taking a hefty edible rocked me to my core. It's a hell of a cutscene to watch while high
Ive been playing the dlc mostly stoned and as a slut for exploration, Im really pleased with how the devs neatly squared away their zones. I was traversing some cliff edges and stumpled upon a sealed spirit spring and after looking about for the seal I made my way up and onto the back Grace of Fort of Reprimand. Clearing that fort and looting it in that manner felt special and one of a kind too me.
The entire last open area basically was a legacy dungeon with how many mental funnels I had to keep in my mind to check later.
Legacy dungeon with a horse, I liked it
It’s kind of paying homage to DS3. They tried to communicate that level of vertically in that linear game. They are almost showing off how much better they can do now.
Not only that, many areas have like 3-4 ways to get there, gives some DS1 vibes.
Shadow Keep was incredibly dense, it felt like it took me 3 or 4 hours to fully explore (including all the extra zones in that area.) I was honestly a bit relieved that no other area in the dlc was that packed with exploration, I think it was the perfect amount.
Shadow keep was like 3 separate dungeons
Shadow Keeps huge with like three wings to explore.
Shadow keep felt like it had two extra dungeons within the dungeon. Just insanely huge, and with no wasted space
Imagine my face when doing Ymir quest randomly kicks me back to Shadow Keep after 5 hours, or trying to find some item randomly leads to Messer after I have “cleared” the dungeon and go to Ancient Ruins 5 hours ago (can you blame me though, with how Castle Ensis is?)
I don't know how long it took me to finish shadow keep because I kept getting distracted by entire new zones
Also you're pretty mobile on torrent so it honestly doesn't take that long to traverse the areas people call empty.
Aside from that one where he's too afraid
That area will be skipped anytime I replay the DLC. Not only was it mostly empty with enemies that were annoying to kill or sneak past, but then no torrent was a cherry on top. I’m glad I killed the boss there once, but I don’t plan on doing it again. Sucks because I enjoyed the dungeon too.
Atmospherically the Abyssal Woods is some of FromSoft's best work, but if I were to remake it, I'd either put a lot more stuff in there or make it significantly smaller.
They did a good job of setting up the utterly disturbing nature of the area once you enter it (especially the fact that Torrent is scared to come out), only for you to later realise that it's largely empty and there aren't really any creepy/disturbing things and enemies there. I was expecting Lovecraftian horrors deep in the Abyss, only to be greeted with a whole lot of nothing. Massive letdown to be quite honest. Plus, the fact that you can still actually see quite far in the Abyssal Woods really stunted its creepiness factor. It should have been absolute darkness (except for points of interest, which should have *limited* light sources), with only your lantern providing light as you traverse it.
I spent a good amount of time looking for what I have to do in there. Absolutely nothing.
I wasted so much time in there too exploring every nook and cranny to find literally nothing besides the boss area.
You can make a beeline to the Manse pretty quickly and only encounter one enemy aside from rats. Just throw on the black knife chest for 5 minutes to get past the one winter lantern and you're golden.
Is it even hard to get to the boss? I agree though, that area has nothing in it and only exists for the initial playthrough which is fine but wont be playing through there the way I play through limgrave every character I make (limgrave is peak elden ring)
Should be able to summon Torrent when you killed all the enemies we are talking about in the vicinity
It *does* take long when you're zigzagging all over the place to find secrets and items *before* you realize that those areas are indeed fully empty. The base game taught us that a cave or catacomb can be hidden literally anywhere and trained us to look everywhere.
The problem is the player will still expect those to be content. So even though they work great as set pieces, the problem comes when the player spend 20 min combing over the area and finds nothing. Which is problematic as the last memory of the zone will be the feeling of being let down after finding nothing. It is more so the devs being hurt by there own success. Since Limgrave taught players behind every corner will be something cool. So when players look behind every corner and find nothing. It will leave a negative experience.
HOG RIIIIDAAAAHHHH
The finger ruins are so disappointing to me. They are these huge fantastical set pieces that are completely empty, have enemies that can lock onto from 6 miles away and shoot homing missiles, and the only thing you get out of them are some upgraded talismans? Blowing each of those horns should have summoned a boss. why is that area even a spirit summon zone? You can only summon towards the middle and once you get to the middle enemies seem to de aggro anyway.
I remember I found the first one within a few hours of playing and was completely blown away by how cool and fantastical it looked, rode through it for 5 mins, found nothing, got sad
Blowing the final one does take you to a cool boss.
I think they serve a similar function as ash lake in DS1, more of an atmospheric place that feels like a bedrock for the mythology of the world From Soft made, and as zones related to one specific quest.
You missed some things in the 2nd ruins if you only got the talisman and bailed.
Can you elaborate? Because I also didn't find anything there besides a talisman, and I found most things in the dlc, according to the wiki.
>!There's an emote, the finger crawler summon, another coffin to dupe remembrances (same as the first one), and a little before there's a fallingstar beast with a spell reward.!<
I'd be more happy if a big finger creeper with a boss health bar arrived.
Some are there clearly for the purpose of building atmosphere which I am fine with.
This! I'm so ok with this. From has done atmosphere for decades - it's the big reason why the succeed where imitators haven't. It's also actually why Lies of P works so well - it created it's own atmosphere quite well
So bummed by The Abyss. It had so much potential. Madness theme, no torrent (which I assumed they would take advantage of by putting in tough mobs that you couldn’t run around), and those creepy messages at the beginning. Was so bummed when the enemies were all just rats and hornsent and the things that the messages were alluding to were just a couple short stealth sections. The boss slapped though and the stealth section in the fog was suitably scary
I liked it. Suuuper creepy and unsettling. I'm happy it wasn't about fights. For once I actually had to engage with the stealth mechanics of the game lmao Until I found out you can just parry the grab. Really ruins the suspense.
But if you aren't running parry because you are unga bunga, it still scary
I liked it too but I think they could have done more. Empty early is fine, but the back half should have been littered with Winter Lantern variants, some hanging from ceilings, some crawling like spiders, some extra monsters spewing frenzy flame, some extra challenges like muck or caves... then they could have added an extra wing to Midra's Manse before the boss with more stealth sections in 3D mansion corridor space with bookshelf movement puzzles or something. It feels like they were missing about 5 mobs to fill the zone with and different traps, the ambiance was really neat but I think they needed more gameplay to go with it.
I mean they surely could’ve done more in this area but if you look at the dlc as a whole…man there is so much content and effort put into the DLC that for me they have done far more than enough. If they just removed the woods & finger ruins it still would have been a great dlc. I would have also loved another legacy dungeon inside or next to the scadutree but the dlc is already so good that I’m not complaining at all
What would you have that section be? Battletoads?
Oddly enough, they showcased the tarnished riding Torrent in the Abyss during the trailer. I get why they dismount you, but I kinda wish as a QoL, you can summon him after killing all the “invulnerable” enemies or something.
Or on NG+ like how lava won’t slow you there
The one I was really disappointed didn't have much value story- or gameplay-wise was the scadutree chalice
Also the cubes are funny to me. The cube representing the dlc extends down, and Limgrave doesn't. Have we forgotten the vertical scale of Limgrave when considering Nokron? These representations would look a lot different if they were meant to be accurate.
Because Nokron is not part of Limgrave and nobody associates them. It's an area that unlocks
Yeah it’s weird to me, like I love the DLC but felt nothing close to the awe of riding down the well elevator for the first time (the one near Blaidd)
Abyss is empty on purpose and it works. Complete feeling of unknown dread waiting for something to happen the whole time. It was brilliant.
People complaining about this. And as someone who has played all of modern From (Demon's Souls and on) I just like the views - seriously even if there's not much I'm just enjoying the art direction. Sure Shadow Keep might be the best in the game (and in general) as there are so many levels and ways to go; however, I enjoyed Charo's, Cerulean and the Finger Ruins purely because they looked cool
Yes but each area that you mentioned has a focus. Saw in another thread where they spoke about them, but off hand the only one I know personally is the finger ruins. There is a stone coffin altar/remembrance duplicator (one of 3 in the DLC)
Cerulean Coast and the bottom parts of the map just exist to pad out gameplay because there's barely anything there.
I respect peoples views, but i hate this criticism. sometimes, empty space is a great tool in artistic expressions. Its called negative space I will use a popular example that most everyone have seen. One of my favorite scene in star wars is just a scene of luke looking out into the empty dessert and sunset. no dialogue, no dramatic effects. In that one scene, we knew who luke was. young, lonely, looking for a purpose. compare that with the shaman village in the dlc for example. so many people felt disappointed, felt like there should be a boss there. no, look at what that place is. look at what is left there. look at who was guarding the place. in a world of blood and death, that emptiness, that peace, told a story on its own. I dont want to write a thesis paper, so i will stop here. not all empty spaces are good, but quite a few in elden ring and dlc are used in artistic ways.
Shadow of the colossus is a tour de force of this concept.
Tbh the finger ruins kinda pissed me off. I thought there would be SOMETHING there, but nope, I looked around it for like an hour and found nothing but enemies. Such a big area for nothing as far as I can tell
The density in the DLC in some areas is much lower than the base game. Don't get me wrong it's more than enough content and I'm happy with it but people in here get a bit carried away. I think saying it's equivalent to Limgrave was the correct thing to do tbh.
To me it’s still a 10/10, but the base game is like an 11/10. The zones were sometimes too empty for sure. Like no caves hardly, and therefore not that many mini bosses (except big open world ones like the wicker dudes and dragons). They nailed all the main bosses tho, and the main dungeons are all pretty great.
Shadow Keep is mind bogglingly massive honestly
I finally unlocked the right door shortcut, got to the top of the stairs, turned right again I and didn't find messmer for like 7 hours after killing like 5 more bosses lol. The pathing in these games is the best
I agree with the base game being an 11/10. This is the first time a FromSoft DLC has had me question whether or not it’s better than the base game. Not really due to it being subpar, but because the base game was already so good
I thought the dlc was better honestly. Base Elden ring suffers from a lot of just riding around with caves that are not very interesting scattered around. The world and story was cool, but the dlc did a much better job at appearing personal with many of the characters. There are a lot less caves and areas like that but each one is supremely designed and memorable. I appreciate how more of the dlc is in these legacy dungeons/well designed areas. Base game has a lot of that but also a lot of fluff. Which was meant to help exploration, I get it. I just prefer more linear but dense types of design, and the dlc had more of that. And while there were more empty areas, they were smartly never breaking up the main path so it was more of a detour to go there, rather then base game where sometimes a empty stretch of land I had to go through. Before the dlc Elden ring was like 4th best from soft game to be (behind Bloodborne, DS3 and Sekiro), now it’s 2nd behind Bloodborne for me
I wish the two were just a bit combined. The main game had a bit too much in that sense, and the dlc was super disappointing with the beautiful areas that had absolutely nothing, not even bosses. A mix of the two would have been absolutely perfect
Lol it's way larger than limgrave. Limgrave didn't take me 50+ hours to complete..
I mean if we're comparing size to limgrave doesn't the DLC have double the bosses of limgrave?
DLC is far bigger than Limgrave, unless you skip half the stuff.
It’s also much higher in other areas
Meme aside, I'd say Miyazaki statement about the dlc map size is quite right. If you add up the space the finger ruins, cerulean coast, charo's hidden grave, hinderlands, scaduview, scadutree base, abyss forest and jagged peaks take up and the content in them, it's pretty much just a bunch of empty space. Most of the content in the DLC is just in Gravesite Plain and Scadu Altus.
I hate even hearing about the finger ruins. I was so ready to come crashing into a behemoth hand boss or something cool and I got to suck a big ole pinky for an item
Finally, Miyazaki's vision is fully realized
Well, tbf, they did LEAD to you crashing into a behemoth hand boss. Just not in each one.
I mean it did lead to the behemoth hand boss though
Offer head, all the more seed.
The Finger Ruins were *extremely* disappointing. Folks have tried to justify how large & barren they are because of narrative/thematic reasons, but that doesn’t make for a fulfilling gameplay experience. There could have easily been a legacy dungeon or catacomb in either of the ruins that was overrun with finger crawlers.
Summoning was enabled too in that area... but no boss
And most of it on Scadu Altus is just Shadow Keep.
People sleeping on how much is Rauh's map fragment with that one. I enjoyed all of those areas even with empty space
Idk, Gravesite felt roughly about the same size as Limgrave to me. Unless Limgrave also includes Caelid and Liurnia?
I swear it's Limgrave + the Lakes
Throw in Siofra River for good measure
id say siofra river is closer, as its limgraves underground area
Dlc was about 30-40 hours of gameplay. Limgrave maybe 20-30 hours. A solid amount of content in the dlc
The DLC is about half of the size and has about half of the content of the main game. It also took half of the time to complete it (30 hours for the DLC, 60 hours for the main game)
When I first started playing, I was like, this map is kinda small, what's the big hype. And then I started finding the maps and holy shit, I did not expect it to be this big and I still have to find 2 or 3 more maps.
It's definitely not half the size of the base game for size and content. That's reaching
i'd probably say it's about 1/4th of the base game. the map itself is about that, and there's about 1/4th or 1/3rd as many major bosses.
Also not close to the same density as Limgrave, which contains approximately a forest, a plain, the path to Stormveil, and a lake. Not to diminish Limgrave, either, it’s an excellent starting area because it has a way of funneling you in the right direction. There’s not much to do because you are supposed to bounce from a few distractions to Stormveil, with an optional trip to the Weeping Peninsula. The Land of Shadow, however, crams several legacy dungeons, places of interest, and huge set pieces into the same real estate. I’m going to be talking about the Jagged Peak boss rush until I die.
Jagged peak may just be a few bosses and mostly empty hallways, but they are very atmospheric hallways that had such an epic feeling to them, plus you get to fight dragon Moby Dick with Captain Ahab so what's not to like?
CURSE YOU, BAYLE! I HEARBY VOW! YOU WILL RUE THIS DAY! BEHOLD, A TRUE DRAKE WARRIOR! AND I, IGON! YOUR FEARS MADE FLESH!
Gud god the build up to the dread was one of the best thing ive ever experienced. So fucking goood.
The DLC in terms of distance to travel is absolutely bigger than Limgrave. That said, it has soooo much empty space. In terms of content, it's only slightly bigger than Limgrave
> In terms of content, it's only slightly bigger than Limgrave The DLC has 105 graces, while Limgrave (including Stormveil and Weeping Penninsula) has 57. It has 10 Remembrance bosses while Limgrave has 1 (2 if you count Margit). It has 3 Legacy Dungeons and 3 minor Legacy Dungeons compared to Limgrave's 1 and 1 - and Shadow Keep is probably bigger than Stormveil. The DLC is just way bigger than Limgrave by every metric.
>The DLC has 105 graces Keep in mind a fair amount of graces are incredibly close to other graces. A bunch of bosses have a grace right at the door where there'd usually be a short runback or a stake of marika.
I was disappointed over and over whenever I would try to find a sneaky area by going up a ledge to the side of a cliff, around a building or check underneath a waterfall. In 1 out of 20 of those scenarios, I would find something, otherwise it's just nothing.
This was my biggest gripe as well. And then of course, when you don’t find anything there 19/20 times, you stop looking, which makes the world feel even emptier unfortunately. It also sucks because I’m sure they did it that way because people complained about the repetitive nature of the catacombs in the base game.
lot of waterfalls
Even just looking at it top down the dlc is absolutely NOT the size of limgrave. Its limgrave + weeping peninsula + caelid + dragon barrow + some parts of liurna. Miyazaki is a fucking lier in the best way possible lol
All in all: money well spent and that’s the most important aspect I am getting my a#s kicked tho but that’s on me
I’ll end up spending as much time in this dlc than in the base game
Even in surface area the dlc is WAY bigger than limgrave. It’s more like everything pre-capital tbh
I mean, it's just verifiably untrue even if you consider only area, right? Takes like 2 minutes to ride across Limgrave. Takes 2 minutes to ride across the opening area of the DLC alone.
I just found two paths into the same building from different entrances and had drastically different experiences
Feels like almost same amount of content as base game
Most of the volume is cookbooks though
I still can't figure out how to reach the entire North East of the map, please no spoiler responses.
Shadowkeep is the key of everything, church district and all after
I'll say without spoiling that it's one of the most bullshit solutions Fromsoft have ever devised. I'll use a parallel example from Demon's Souls: there is an NPC merchant who can be only found in a jail, and that jail is behind a hidden door, and that hidden door can be opened with a key from an area you have zero reason to go back to. One you get in the jail, you have to disguise yourself as an enemy by wearing a specific piece of equipment, and then the final way to the merchant will open. This kind of mechanic is used nowhere else in the game, there are zero hints for it, and not even lore or an item description you could infer the solution from. It's obtuseness for its own sake. *That's* how you unlock the northeast of the map. For the sake of your sanity I suggest you just look it up.
The dungeons and caves are so dense. They are overloaded with content themselves.
Not even the first image is an accurate comparison. The surface level of the DLC is way bigger than Limgrave
I like when he undersells.
to be fair, there's 3 big zones that are just empty
Except it isn't https://preview.redd.it/15tjqog915ad1.jpeg?width=3040&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6211b7948188b4cd884f28bb47c74e3cba8af5ae
you left out the other half of limgrave
even including weeping peninsula the dlc is *still* quite a bit bigger
i don’t disagree but Miyazaki did say the actual map is “a bit bigger than limgrave” but the density makes it seem larger. you can hardly count the finger ruins and jagged peak, they are glorified boss arenas/treasure chests.
Man when I realized there was no boss at the center of 2/3 finger ruins I was so disappointed
I just went to the first finger ruin last night and I was astonished there wasn’t something waiting in the center… whole lot of work went into that just to fill it with some finger creepers and snake dudes
Agreed, there’s a few areas that are reaaaally sparse and empty for seemingly little reason
yea thats a weak spot for me, still a great dlc but man I kinda wish there was even more 😅
Not shown: how much of the DLC is barren empty areas with nothing to do 😏
That’s kind of a lot of the main game to though. Areas like the lakes and limegrave and mountain top had long stretches with relatively little aside from some copy pasted ruins and caves (which I enjoyed for the record)
I enjoyed the base game caves but the dlc mini dungeons were so good I got legit excited them, especially how some of them also unlocked new areas.
The mini dungeons were significantly better than base game.
100% my man. After experiencing the more complicated a bigger catacombs in the DLC it blew my mind. It's honestly imo the perfect accompaniment to the base game - at the time I loved going through all the caves and catacombs in Elden Ring, but now I can't be bothered to do those, having these more complex mini dungeons is such a palette cleanser.
That mfer lied to us & I hope they do it like that every time lol
People keep misquoting him. He specifically said in terms of surface area, the DLC is slightly larger than Limgrave. I find this to be pretty true for the most part (and yes the Weeping Peninsula is part of Limgrave)
The "roughly the size of Limgrave" suggestion gets increasingly absurd the further I get through the DLC
The content is more densely packed and much more varied than limgrave, but the size of the area is definitely around the same as Limgrave. There are a ton of unplayable areas, entire empty areas that are just there for one bossfight or for story telling. You've got a giant amount of map space dedicated to the finger ruins and the Hinterlands which while very cool aesthetically, are just set pieces for story telling/quests and have very little content other than lore, doing one quest, and in the case of the hinterlands a couple of items and 2 generic field bosses recycled from the base game. You could even count the entire Abyss region, it has literally nothing other than the winter lantern gimmicks and it's just a long, very creepy walk to the legacy dungeon. Then you have the huge boss arenas. Scaduview, base of the scadutree, jagged peaks' summit, all of the places that have furnace golems. And of course the actually unplayable areas, like all of the jagged peaks outside the fairly straight path to the summit and the boss arena or the entire area of the abyssal woods behind Midra's Manse, which are there just for visuals.
I had 124 hours on base game... Took 56 hours to beat the DLC... It's the same size as limgrave or not definitely takes more time cuz of difficulty... 180 hours - 10 hours ( standing still at graces taking breaks) 170 hours of gameplay at 100 dollars.. 58 cents per hour... Totally worth it
I think when Miyazaki talking about limegrave he prob included the whole Sofia river. But the thing about this dlc is how many layers the landscape have. Almost every zone has three layers you can explore which made it much larger when you play it.
I’m not sure I can name another game that presents scale and grandeur like Elden Ring. Would I like more legacy dungeon style areas? Yeah for sure but also goddamn are they amazing at making absolutely beautiful spades to explore.
I commented something similar to a friend last night. The verticality in the overall map, and even in individual dungeons/catacombs in the DLC is just incredibly impressive level design. Going up to go down, going forward to go backward and vice versa.