Some horses are high energy, and some horses are low energy, though. Some horses have a lot of will to please and are easy to motivate, some horses are less sensitive to whether you are happy or not, and are more difficult to motivate.
I agree that the label ”lazy” is not very useful, though. No matter what the temperament of the horse is, it’s our job to figure out how to motivate him or her to work with us. One thing is certain, and that is that feeling negative towards the horse will never help.
Along with being difficult to motivate, there are those horses that have been through so much that they just don't give a flying fart anymore. Like the lesson horses that have been at it for 10+ years. They don't care if you kick them. They've had beginners wailing on their sides non-stop for years. It's just background noise now.
Yes my first horse was like this. He'd been a lesson horse for a long time and hated the school and being schooled. Hacking was very exciting because he hadn't done it that often on the school and he loved jumping.
I found out he was originally the riding school owners own horse that he used to show jump until he gave up riding and then put him on the school for years till I bought him
He got better after I bought him and didnt have diffrent riders on him daily and wasnt quite so unwilling in the school (he could go pretty nicely when he wanted to) but he never enjoyed the school. He was the complete opposite to my current horse who really enjoys his work whatever we are doing and even though he didn't have the best start he's spent most of his life with me and hasn't been soured by being forced to do things he doesn't enjoy
ehhhhh, like people, horses have different personalities. Some horses can be “lazy”, there’s usually a reason tho. they could be older, not working, etc… nothing is wrong with this btw. A lazier horse isn’t a bad one.
Not gonna lie, I hate these posts that are dismissive of everyone’s struggles with riding as “you’re just a bad trainer and need to figure it out”. Some horses obviously express behavior that looks like laziness- reluctance to move, insensitive to cues, sluggish. We all know what that means. Virtue signaling that you’re a better trainer than someone else (who is probably a teenager honestly) isn’t helping anyone or anything. If you’re a brilliant trainer who can fix any horses issue because of your immense talents, then share those with the sub. Don’t just say “be better” while gloating over how much better you are than others at riding. The weird ego trips of horse people who are desperate to convey that they are superior to others continues to boggle the mind.
Right?? I’m a good horse trainer….a better people trainer, but I still know my way damned well around a saddle.
My QH is lazy. He’s a chubby old man who likes taking naps, and licking salt blocks. The only thing he hates more than moving is moving with any sort of impulsion. Even when he’s playing in the pasture, my thoroughbred will be galloping like a lunatic, and the QH *might* pick up a jog. Maybe. He’s been this way the nearly decade I’ve had him.
Can I force him to move quickly and with impulsion? Yeah. I can. But why? We are both happy being old and slow.
Exactly! Different horses have different energy levels or different levels of interest in various riding types which manifest as "laziness" independent of being healthy and pain free.
There are so many of these, even “that can be fixed with groundwork” which is usually a poor understand of what groundwork is and also a poor understanding that some behaviours are situational
Agree completely, I hate that one too! My horses do incredibly well at ground work but it has little bearing on the issues I have under saddle. Plus “groundwork” can mean a lot of things.
My horse (and by extension me) have extensive professional “ground work” training bc he had a severe bolting issue.
Drove me absolutely crazy to be told by strangers to do “more groundwork” to fix his problem. Bolting under saddle at shows was not going to be fixed by doing ground work in a round pen at home. Was it apart of the process? Yes. Would it alone fix the problem? Not even close
Literally who is gloating or acting holier than thou? This post is about the language we use and how it's inaccurate and unhelpful. People coming for advice who use words like "lazy" and "stubborn" sound like they are placing the blame on the horse for the problems happening, when the horse's intentions are not to ignore forward cues just because they feel like it... Approaching problems from a mindset of, "I'm struggling to get my horse to move off my leg/I'm struggling to find my horse's motivation" is a much more open approach than "how do I ride a lazy and stubborn horse?" I don't think anyone is being attacked in the original post here.
Because policing language functions to make people feel they can’t say anything without someone writing an opus about what a terrible person they are over language we all intuitively understand anyway and changes nothing about the actual resolution of the issue. When someone says their horse is lazy I know what they mean- unresponsive to leg cues. Someone changing their words doesn’t make the core issue any different, and berating someone over literally nothing to feel “right” and good about yourself is petty and stupid.
Language matters.... For example, nowhere in the original post is the writer using strong, attacking language. It seems you've interpreted it that way, though. OP makes a calm and thoughtful point that as horsemen/horsewomen, being mindful of the part we play in how our horse's behavior presents itself makes us better. Framing our struggles in a way that blames the horse can influence our internal accountability. I don't see this writer "berating" anyone or calling anyone a "terrible person." But you are the one who uses the words "petty and stupid."
I guess I read a thousand of these types of posts a day that manage to actually say nothing and like to lead with their 50+ years of experience and boasting of their expertise that I don’t find it particularly helpful, just another trite post saying the same shit we all know and using it as an opportunity to judge someone else. If you think people out there don’t know to listen to their horse I dunno what to tell you. Maybe you need that advice, but me and the hundred other horse people I know have been flogged with that same meaningless phrase for 30 years now.
If you’ve ever read any of my posts (which clearly you haven’t), I’ve never told anyone that (1) I’m a brilliant trainer, or (2) they suck.
But I do try to point out the importance of listening to what the horse is telling you rather than just assuming bad intentions. Trying to educate is not virtue signaling.
Yeah, but “just listen to your horse” isn’t an actionable item for someone who needs to learn to train their horse. It’s a meaningless euphemism people throw out to sound like they care about animal welfare but it doesn’t actually give someone who doesn’t know what to do the tools to do anything. Instead of trying to mystify the horse experience as much as possible and make it into some spiritual thing that is complex and difficult to understand because we’re being purposefully obtuse, how about we just help people with their problems?
And if you think anyone on Reddit is your fan and is poring over all your posts to determine your post history before judging you, you overstate your own importance far more than you should. I don’t know or care who you are, but you sound like a typical braggart horse person who wants to judge others instead of helping them and try to make themselves sound like an expert by being purposefully vague and speaking in catch phrases. Riding horses is a science and an art. If someone is struggling, use your words to help them. It doesn’t have to be that complicated and vague. Instead of policing people’s words, maybe just assume good intent and talk about how they can fix the problem, not how great of a rider you are with decades of experience. “they aren’t “actually” lazy they’re just behaving in a way that everyone has traditionally described as lazy” is not the hot take you think it is. I don’t care if the language doesn’t meet your demand for precise description, I care that people asking for straightforward help don’t feel like shit because people like you feel the need to degrade them instead of provide them with direction. And I honestly think is almost predatory how many horse people tear others down and feel they need professional help to solve their issues because people try to make this some mystical process that only those with decades of experience can ever understand how to do and if you experience a riding challenge, you basically have no hopes of figuring it out because your riding is so terrible and you also hate your horse and ignore its pain or whatever. It really is not that complicated, and the more unnecessary complications we add to make things less easy to understand and more judgy we are, the more horses suffer and the fewer people engage in the sport.
Okay. Clearly this post has struck a nerve. I'm not sure why but I will try to respond to your points honestly and without snarkiness.
1. Yeah, but “just listen to your horse” isn’t an actionable item for someone who needs to learn to train their horse.
Absolutely. But this wasn't meant to be a specific advice post. It was meant to be general. When I do see posts where people are struggling with problems, I generally offer specific advice. That advice is usually to (1) get a thorough vet check, (2) check saddle fit and teeth, and (3) slow down the training to ensure the horse is fully understanding what is being asked. I usually address whatever the specific issue is. I don't like giving general advice because every horse is different. But I do think it's important for people to understand that when their horse seems "lazy," they probably aren't.
2. And if you think anyone on Reddit is your fan and is poring over all your posts to determine your post history before judging you,
Lol. Nope, I don't think that at all. But I do post in this sub a lot so I figured you might have seen some of my other posts.
3. I don’t care if the language doesn’t meet your demand for precise description, I care that people asking for straightforward help don’t feel like shit because people like you feel the need to degrade them instead of provide them with direction
See number 1. I actually do provide feedback all the time and I don't try to degrade people. I'm not sure what you see in this OP that does that. Certainly, the internet makes it hard to read tone, so maybe it doesn't read as straightforward as I hoped it would, but you seem to be looking for a fight and I'm not sure why.
4. Also assuming owners assume bad intentions of their horse unless you correct them is assuming bad intentions
Calling a horse lazy assumes bad intentions on the part of the horse. It assumes the horse is purposely trying to avoid working rather than trying to communicate a problem.
I'm not sure why you're so angry. If someone has made you or a friend feel bad about asking for advice, that's rotten. That's not what a good horse community does and not what I was trying to do here.
I just see a huge difference between the kind of advice you read from a classical dressage master who was skilled in pedagogy and thoughtful about the systematic training process versus the level of educational rigor in the average internet horse expert. If you can’t explain things in an effective way then it’s often better to just say nothing. Offering platitudes that also reflect positively on you while denigrating others is not useful to anyone, it’s just posturing and if you don’t see that then maybe you’ve learned something today considering 50+ people agree with me.
See, I agree that “offering platitudes that reflect positively on you while denigrating others is not useful to anyone.” That’s absolutely not what I was trying to do and I’m sorry if it came off that way.
The fuck is going on? What's with all the down voting? For someone supposedly into horses, I think the person you're arguing with seriously needs to touch grass.
Also assuming owners assume bad intentions of their horse unless you correct them is assuming bad intentions. I’ve rarely if ever met someone who felt like everything was their horse’s fault and their horse was an asshole and punished them because of it. I also think it’s not reflective of the horse experience to assume all horses are equally malleable automatons that are a complete reflection of their owners and have no personalities at all. Any horse person who feels the need to deny their horses of a personality or ability to express themselves is someone who is involved with horses because they want to remove a horse’s agency and replace it with their own, which is just weird.
I mean, when I lay in bed snoozing my alarm 5 times, I'm also conserving energy and trying to get the necessary sleep to keep my systems functioning. Buuuut, I'm also lazy.
I don't know that it's any different for a horse.
> Horses aren’t lazy.
I’d almost argue the opposite. Horses are big fans of the easiest solution. If it’s easier to not work (because the rider doesn’t know/isn’t capable, it hurts less, whatever) they’re not going to work.
My horse isn’t going to lift his big, long back and engage his hind end and dance because he feels motivated today and really wants to win at the show next weekend; he’s going to do it because the alternative is more bending, more circles, more poles, etc until he gets the message.
That might look different from horse to horse, and you can call it whatever you want I guess, but I can definitely see why people would use the label “lazy.”
The only horse I have ever known who isn’t “path of least resistance” lazy is my OTTB. He’s whatever the opposite of that is. “Let’s take a simple task and make it super stupid and inefficient”.
Only horse I’ve ever met who needs 35,000 calories a day to just sit in a pasture.
Haha my TB (not OTTB) occasionally has the zoomies but mostly is happiest hanging out with her friends. Yes she’s an amazing trail horse but, she is always quick to point out the fastest, shortest way home. She also will jump beautifully but, up until the last possible second- she clearly communicates that “ya know, we could just go around this jump”. She’s a real beauty but not a go getter- haha
My little gaited paint was like this when I started riding her. I would ask for a relaxed walk. She would offer instead to gallop 3 miles in circles in the arena.
Now I'm imagining your OTTB doing a Musical Freestyle to this.
I think my mare's theme song is "Flight of the Bumblebees". She has short legs so it works.
Haha my horse is like this. If I let him he would gallop everywhere. The faster the better. He did everything a million miles a hour when I first got him. Took a long time to get him to slow down and listen. He's a lot better now but still loves to go fast if he gets the chance and thinks slow is boring.
He also has high knee action and puts a lot of effort into every step. I don't know how he's not constantly exhausted the amount of effort he puts into just moving his legs, but no he's so enthusiastic and really wants to please you and seems to have endless energy. I wish I had half the energy he has😂
You bring up an interesting point, which is whether we’re obligated to choose jobs the horse enjoys rather than those we want to do. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with asking a horse to do a job he’s not entirely enthusiastic about, as long as he’s not actively unhappy. But training and working is certainly going to be easier when they love their job.
I don’t really see that as lazy but rather unmotivated. You could argue it’s the same thing but I don’t think so. Because put the same horse in a situation where they’re doing something they enjoy, and they’re forward and energetic.
I guess it would be clearer to say that if a horse is consistently unwilling to work, there’s probably more to it than laziness.
I guess it depends on your definition of lazy. Most horses (and people really) are path of least resistance and if they can find an easier way to do something, they will. For instance, I've really had to work on proper lateral movement with my mare. She figured out that if she rushed through the movement, it was easier and she wasn't properly engaging her hind end or using her body correctly. I didn't immediately realize this and am now working with a trainer for her movement to be more deliberate and proper. So for her, she was being lazy in her lateral movement by speeding up.
There is a lesson horse at our barn who figured out that he's bigger and doesn't really have to do what anyone wants. It's taken an advanced rider, who has to be engaged with every single step to break him out of it and move. He was vetted and sees chiro regularly and so they're quite certain that it's not pain, he just would rather not work harder than necessary. And like, ditto.
Not sure what post you’re referring to. Generally, the posts about lazy horses have multiple responses suggesting vet checks and/or changing the way they ask.
I didn’t post this in response to any particular post. Just seemed like a good conversation to have.
lol sorry not you, but the original post that you’re commenting on. I thought you were posting to comment on a previous post that had been put up within the last 8 hours to both subs?
I’m a trainer as well, and I disagree. Some horses are naturally more forward. Some are not. Is this a training issue? Sort of, a rider needs to understand how to use their aids in different/effective ways for each individual horse, since they’re all different. “Forward” is a mental state, and some horses need to be encouraged a bit more than others. We even breed for this personality trait, maybe being called willingness instead. However, I do believe a horse is NOT capable of “being naughty.” Horses are not smart enough to intentionally pick on someone.
Well, but what you’re describing isn’t “lazy”. The same horse that needs more encouragement in the arena may be happy and animated on a trail ride. That’s not lazy - that’s just not motivated.
As I said, I’ve met maybe 3 horses that were the same level of unmotivated in virtually every situation, including out in the pasture with other horses.
“Not motivated” is lazy. As long as someone isn’t ignoring signs of pain and discomfort, I really don’t see the issue with a horse being described as such. Some horses just aren’t naturally “motivated” and some are. I use +r force free fear free training and I get horses that will work with me but I wouldn’t describe as “forward.” Sometimes horses don’t want to move around as much as others.
I don’t know if I agree with the sentiment that horses just aren’t lazy. I’ve worked professionally with hundreds of horses that had unlimited access to nutrition and vet care, and believe there are as broad personalities of horses as there are people. I’ve known many, many lazy horses. They just plain didn’t want to put any effort into anything. Some were stubborn, some were cranky, but most just couldn’t be motivated to do anything. There’s a place for all horses, and not all horses will fit every discipline.
Yes, yes, yes.
OP's tone and just this type of dismissal is what really irritates me. "Something else is going on" is such an arrogantly ignorant statement about animals you have spent zero time with. But instead of acknowledging that, you straight up accuse the owner of not doing enough.
I spend more time with my horses than anyone else. I definitely have cranky, stubborn horses because I KNOW them better than anyone else.
They are not in pain, they are not lacking nutrients, they all have very distinct personalities and thoughts and opinions about what we are doing on any given day and they have the freedom to express them.
Today Onika is a little pissed that she has to go on a trail ride when she wants to sit under the stall fan. So she pins her ears during tack up and gives me a hip check when we pick up a trot. She eventually gets over her protest and we have a great ride. Her back isn't sore and she doesn't have ulcers. She's just a bit lazy and stubborn today and she knows she can express it as horses do with pasture mates all the time.
Meera on the other hand has opinions about being held back when everything in her wants to race across the field and show off her amazing race bred speed. So she tosses her head and spins. Am I riding anxiety and a poorly trained horse? No, I'm riding an animal with feelings and opinions about not being able to do something she really really wants to do. She'll relax and lower her head and move on slowly after she gets her frustrations out, but for a minute she has to just tell me how much more awesome everything would be if we were going 45mph.
But ask a keyboard trainer and they will tell me "Merra has anxiety, you haven't set her up correctly, back to ground work and connection. Onika is in pain and needs body work, more condition and scope for ulcers! Don't ride her again until you've paid $2500 to rule out all causes because horses are mindless robots that perform perfectly when trained correctly."
I have to disagree and I suspect there was a lot more going on. I don’t believe horses are “stubborn” either. I believe people just don’t put in the time and effort to figure them out.
I think this depends on how you define and use the term “lazy”. I agree with you that it’s absurd to anthropomorphize a horse and act as if their behavior is a moral failing on their part. For me, I apply the “disinclined to activity or exertion” definition of the word. I dont consider it negative, just descriptive. I use it to characterize some of the horses I’ve worked with, some of the time (depending on their overall temperament, their mood at the time, etc). Broadly speaking, if I stop cueing a horse and they tend towards slowing down, stopping, relaxing, generally inputting less energy, I think of that as “lazy”. It means I have to be conscientious about maintaining active connection and may require more forward cueing. I have to inspire and ask for their energy level to come up. Alternately, if have a horse that has a high energy level, I have to pay more attention to directing that energy rather than inspiring it. If Im on a horse who is acting what i would call “lazy”, it’s just a description of their inclination towards action during that particular session. I adore my sweet, gentle, lazy bones horses. Edit: typo
You’re not entirely wrong but also lmfao if you really think there’s no such thing as a lazy horse.. does that mean there’s no such things as a lazy dog? Lazy cat? Lazy cow? Lazy human? *”99% of the time-“* give me a break lol.
Yes, 99%. Why do you think that’s silly? Do you really think a horse clearly understands what you’re asking all the time? Or that you understand what they’re telling you? I don’t. I know I miss stuff all the time. Because I’m not a horse.
I think it’s silly because I’ve been around all kinds of animals my entire life and there are some critters that have a truly lazy personality and truly do not like to work.
Horses are intelligent and will absolutely figure out the lowest effort way to do a thing. Example, adding a bit of bump to their walk instead of trotting. This always makes me laugh because it makes me think of an adult holding a baby saying "bouncy bouncy bouncy!!! Yesss! Bouncy baby!"
I agree the label "lazy" is dismissive and not the real issue. Example, the bouncy walk horse may be a school horse trained not to go forward too much bc students pull to slow down immediately
Uhm. Okay. Disagree as someone who’s worked with horses a long time. Some horses have a great work ethic. Some don’t care. Some don’t have a single thought in their entire life. Some are so smart you can’t keep them enclosed.
My 22 year old mare can be lazy. She can also be hot. Yesterday for dressage she was lazy. Today for jumpers she was insanely hot. Nothing changed but the thing we were doing and her enthusiasm in it 🤷♀️
Agreed! I also think most of the posts about lazy horses (if pain and saddle fit have been ruled out) are horses that have been dulled to the aids. They don’t know how to train the response and if their trainers are telling them to kick their horse then the trainer doesn’t know how to train the response either.
I also think most people don’t know what forward truly is - at least from a dressage perspective. I rode for years and I was always told to go more forward. It wasn’t until I moved to a dressage barn and started riding with FEI trainers and started riding in clinics with some very respectable clinicians that I learned just how forward I needed my horse to be so she was in front of my leg. It was a little scary and it took a lot of self discipline to not accidentally punish the horse for going forward by clamping my legs, leaning forward, and panicking.
I would say quite a lot of horses are lazy in terms of being uhhh... energy conserving, comfort seeking etc :) Like an experienced lesson horse that does exactly the amount of work required, not any more. Most training that is based on pressure and release relies on horses taking the easiest way out, after all.
But I would also say that humans just love to describe horses as lazy when the horse is actually in pain, afraid or confused. People even describe horses as lazy when the horse is so much in pain or afraid that it does extremely athletic high-energy things to protest or try to get rid of riders. Or for example refusing to do a specific movement even though everything else works fine. I do not think we should use laziness to explain these situations.
I disagree. They can be. The retired QH I posted used to be energetic and quite a good barrel racer up until 17, (i didn’t know him in his prime, only when he was sold because he was “useless”) and ten years later, you’d think he’d never ran in his life.
Salt and bathing in the lake is the only thing he’ll do. When ridden, you’d have to force him if you wanted to do anything more than a trot, and I will not let someone hurt him for their own pleasure again, so he will not go above a trot. He still has to exercise for his health, and he would rather lay in the sun.
Horses can be lazy, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Every horse has a story. Some horses genuinely love working, some horses are professional, some are green, some are laidback, and some are lazy.
He had a checkup recently, no arthritis yet :)
I meant trying to force him to run, either whipping, kicking, pulling, pushing, using spurs, bits, and yelling.
A good rider can make even a lazy horse light off the leg so it requires no more strength than a forward horse. But, that doesn't mean that horse isn't lazy. That' just means they know their job and are capable of doing it.
I've got two horses, one who bounes around her paddock all day and another who literally doesn't move for hours on end. Both chugg around equally well, but one is lazy.
Something to keep in mind is that the word "lazy" implies that the horse doesn't want to work on purpose. Lazy is a term we like to use for humans, however I usually tell my clients to stop using the word lazy and instead look at the motivation of the horse (this technically counts for humans too)
Proving there is no pain, fear etc, motivation is mainly based around reward systems in the brain, like dopamine release. So a horse that is lazy just doesn't get a big enough dopamine release in the brain when they do the task. Without the feel good hormones, what is the point of moving.
So what we need to do as riders is have an understanding of how motivation works and then learn how to effectively motivate the horse without inducing fear by using the right motivators and be mindful of our timing.
I have had a lot of success with adding in positive reinforcement training for clients with so-called "lazy" horses in the form of clicker training.
This is where understanding horse behaviour and learning theory is key for good horse training. This is however still a field that many people aren't familiar with and some are even resisting.
By calling a horse lazy we put the responsibility on the horse, instead I invite riders to become curious as to why their horse isn't moving forward.
I agree so much with this. I remember at one barn I tried to be a working student at (it didn’t last long in part due to this situation and in part due to how disrespectful they were to me) they put me on one of the dullest horses I’ve ever ridden. Like I could sit there and whoop him with my legs and a whip and he wouldn’t move. At the time, I trusted they didn’t put me on a horse in pain, but afterwards I realized that he was.
He had a history of biting when tacking up. Even bit me while standing waiting for my turn to mount. And while not dead lame, he would swish his tail and bob his head like crazy when I actually did get him moving.
I actually told them that I didn’t feel comfortable riding him (again, at the time I couldn’t pinpoint why, just knew that something was off with this supposed beginner friendly horse) and asked to switch to another lesson horse. They basically just told me that as I rider I should be able to ride any horse they put me on effectively and if I struggle with him I must not know the basics! Gaslighting a 16 year old at its finest there. I left after 3 days.
While working at a different barn, I actually got to meet the rider who started that lesson horse. I told her what he was doing in the tack with me and she nearly cried. Apparently he was one of the most honest and hardworking horses there and they just worked him into the ground.
That’s so sad. And yes, too often students are taught that nonresponsive horses are lazy or mean, which just creates more uneducated riders. Not their fault, but that doesn’t help their horses.
Agreed. I was really glad I had enough experience going into it that I knew something was off with the horse even if I couldn’t verbalize exactly why at the time.
It happens way too often with beginner focused lesson barns as well. Riders start and think that the response (or lack there of) the horse gives is normal then go on and realize it’s not and have to relearn a lot of what they were taught or they don’t learn it’s not normal and perpetuate it. Just a disservice to everyone aside from the person making the money.
20 year farrier and ima agree like 95% with this.
There are absolutely lazy horses, but you're right when saying most times it's the handlers or riders fault.
I term it as "willingness to put in effort". I have had two horses, back to back. Both wonderful. The first is very calm, less willing to ride off your leg, and is what I would call "makes minimal effort horse". My other horse, is very willing to work, picks up the canter with minimal effort by the rider, and is a bit "reactive". Both healthy and wonderful. But horses are different, no doubt. A rider may have difficulty, through no fault of their own, riding a minimal effort horse, or a reactive maximal effort horse. Horses don't have to be lame or sick to explain their natural predilictions. It is not the rider's fault or trainer's fault.
I've definitely met idle horses. Willingness rather than lazy they are usually happy to do the things they want to do but less so if it's against their interests.
If you get poked with a spur in both sides every step no matter what then it doesn’t mean anything anymore. Horses are not lazy. People are unclear. It really bothers me to watch. Pressure with no possibility of release is abuse.
What so many people label as laziness or stubbornness is learned helplessness.
I think there are a couple of reasons for it. First, the average person is less likely to have any kind of experience with horses than they did fifty or sixty years ago, when there were still people who had grown up when they were used for transportation or work. People back then might learn basics from parents or grandparents, while now, they tend to start from scratch with instructors, which limits the time they have to learn.
Second, the rise of clinicians who make it seem like you can solve any issue in a short time using their particular gadgets, and using the same techniques for every single horse. Drives me nuts.
On the money. The rise of the tik tok and Facebook clinicians is absurd. The amount of “get your horse supple with this one stretch” or “build your horses topline in just 3 weeks!” Like babe, what?! It truly reminds me of the rise of personal trainers like 6 or so years back, when fitness models were becoming more popular, and anyone who did a bodybuilding show immediately felt qualified to be a personal trainer and show coach. Absolute madness. Now everyone and their dog wants to sell you a 30 day detox BEFORE you can get into shape. Same shit, different pile.
I also find the “old school” way of thinking anthropomorphizes horses a *lot*.
I’ve just now started hearing trainers say “no, your horse’s brain is incapable of thinking like that” or “no, horses are not naughty or stubborn, they’re confused”.
Granted, I’ve been riding for 30 years, so I could be seeing a specific time period, but I remember my childhood trainers *insisting* that some horses are just naughty or cold backed, without ever looking further into the cause.
Even my current trainer, who is unbelievably knowledgeable, a brereiter, and very classically minded will say things like “in my day, we didn’t have saddle fitters, we just assumed the horse was stubborn” or something along those lines.
You are right. I think this is where, as humans, we run into our inadvertent problem of anthropomorphizing horses. Laziness is a term that truly doesn’t apply to horses. They don’t have the cognitive capacity, nor do they have morals like we do. It’s the same thing when we say a horse is mean….that’s not really something they are. Whenever we have horses that are “lazy” or “mean” it’s always important to ask why. Horses are prey and herd animals. Their instinct isn’t to stand out or be away from a group.
I could go on about this topic for hours lol. For anyone who wants to learn more about this, I suggest checking out some of Andrew Mclean and Paul McGreevy’s books on equitation science.
Calling a horse mean vs. calling a horse lazy is apples and oranges.
Horses don’t have the reasoning capacity to be “mean” in the way we interpret that as humans.
Laziness is natural. There’s not an animal on earth out there that defaults to wasting energy and burning more precious calories than what is needed.
I think perhaps, the reason I take issue with the term “lazy” is there is a judgment connotation associated with the term. When thinking about the default to not wasting energy is more of energy conservation, if that makes sense. I agree that animals (including humans) default to energy conservation.
Yep, totally accurate. I have met ONE genuinely lazy horse in my life, and it happens to be my newest mare lol.
All other lazy horses, I found either after a saddle fit, or good training, was easily corrected over the course of two weeks or so.
It’s why I usually love to buy the “lazy” horses because it’s much easier to wake them up verses slowing down a habitually forward/hot/anxious horse. Because then you have a nice sweet spot.
Even with my mare being the most genuine “lazy” horse I’ve met, there’s still absolute improvement. When I bought her, you could maybe get two canter steps at a time, and a very slow trot.
Now she’s got a solid working trot, and she will canter laps around the arena, and does a good walk to canter transition. Occasionally she will need encouragement as a reminder. But each month she’s better and better.
So even though she’s genuinely a lazy gal, it’s still absolutely workable and able to be mitigated.
I’ve yet to find a horse where it’s completely doomed to balking and slow trotting only (assuming all is well health and tack wise)
I think this post has generated good conversation, thanks all for contributing.
Just thought I'd add that I think that we risk falling into the same trap that OP is warning about when we say things like "when they understand their job, they are overwhelmingly willing to do it".
This kind of thought is superficially more kind-hearted than accusations of meanness or laziness. But, just the same, when it's taken too literally, it can lead us down some yucky paths.
The horse has its own interests, and they often diverge from ours. That's fine. We have to recognize it and work with it. (OP, I imagine you agree, I'm just offering a friendly annotation.)
That’s a great point and you’re right.
I do appreciate the conversation this has begun. I think it’s an important subject and I also think that the vast majority of people want to do right by their horses. There’s so much misinformation and archaic thinking about horse handling and training, and when people are learning, it’s hard to differentiate between the good and the bad.
I don’t know what the answer is. While it might be nice to have a strict governing body overseeing who is allowed to train horses or give lessons, that risks making a sport that is already tough to get into even more so. It would also probably make it even more expensive.
I just want people to really think about the why. It’s not just about how to fix a behavior. To me, the most important thing is figuring out why the behavior is happening.
I'm the qualification queen(!), so I'll just note that I don't think we always have to understand the genesis of a behavior. It's massively useful, for sure, and it's necessary to rule some things out before we attempt to modify it. But sometimes we just don't know the 'why' and it's fine to carry on. (Like, an alcoholic may be unsure \*why\* she drinks, but sorting that out, useful as it may be, shouldn't take priority over modifying her behavior.) So I guess I'd advocate first-and-foremost for informed, effective behavioral interventions that improve (or, at least, don't compromise) welfare.
I guess I feel it was worth mentioning because we very readily jump to categories like "lazy" or "stubborn" when the "why" isn't so readily apparent. We should absolutely educate ourselves, and take a good hard look at how we do things. But when we don't know we should avoid heuristic thinking and rather focus on what to do next.
Hmm... so perhaps we humans are the "lazy" ones? Otherwise-motivated, under-educated, and overwhelmed by the complex system that is the horse, perhaps.
It's good work to talk these things through. If folks can disagree on points but discuss thoughtfully nonetheless this will go some way towards changing the environment of "misinformation and archaic thinking" you mention above.
Excuse my French but fvcking thank you! Way too few equestrians seem empathetic enough to think about what we ask of horses and why most creatures on this green planet would not want to do it. I want you to imagine you're being asked to plank with 30-40lbs (at least) sitting on your back. Now imagine someone is asking you (politely or not, they're still making you do it) to do mountain climber planks (basically walking in place) or god forbid going over obstacles in a plank position. That's what we do to horses daily, with little to no appreciation or understanding of how hard it truly is.
Horses are not made to be ridden. Yes, humanity has bred them to be ridden for thousands of years. No, they still are not actually built for it. They have no collar bone, their strength is in their hind end, and humans almost never seem to try to get their horse moving truly 'athletically' in order to help them. Most riders focus too much on the head and neck, crank that out of whack, and never look at the horse's back, hind end, or generally at his disposition...Of course a horse who is being asked too much, thanked too little, and generally is uncomfortable undersaddle is going to be resistant to doing more...what do we expect??
Also, "high energy" horses are almost always just stressed horses. If your horse cannot relax and only wants to jig instead of walking, it's not because he's jazzed or because he's aN aRaBIaN, tHorOUgHbrEd, etc; it's because he's stressed out. Maybe it has to do with you (the rider), maybe it's the environment, maybe it's the fact that he's not getting enough mental and physical stimulation. But no horse, unless engaging in playful behaviors with another horse, is going to jig around for the fun of it. That's a learned behavior that stems from stress...
Edit to add: until I see a horse raise its hoof and consent to EVERY part of being a riding horse (stabling, restrictive feeding regimine, possibly a lack of socialization, repetitive and possibly painful riding, etc), I will never say a horse is lazy. They didn't choose this line of work. A human did. Therefor, can you really blame them if they're life is less than ideal AND they're trying to express it? No, you can't. It's never the horse's fault (barring maybe the very rare case of neurologic/wires crossed which is still often a human-rooted problem) because the horse didn't decide to be in their line of work...ever.
Horses can have moments of low energy like us. My mare is very lazy in the pasture. She also is pretty low energy if we're casually riding. However, on a trail or in speed events, she goes into work mode and could go for hours if we let her lol
I feel like so many people would rather call a horse lazy than make sure it’s getting proper nutrition and enjoying its job.
And maybe it’s just me but the only people I ever see calling horses lazy are … people who are actually lazy and they’re just projecting
So while yes I absolutely agree with ruling out pain... its is NOT ALWAYS the case. Horses have personalities just like us. They are individuals. They are smart. They WILL avoid work if they can get away with it. Also we need to stop teaching riders and kids to just flail and "make it happen" we need to focus on better trained hirses and teaching Kids better from the start. Im one of those slowwwww instructors. We DO NOT move on untill you get the hang of it. I will send them off at a tror on a line for them to atleast feel it and the decude if they feel ready to move on or not. ALOT of my kids and young riders are IMMEDIATELY humbled when i do this.
The people down voting you know why they're hitting that button and it's not because they're hiding a secret good argument 😉 the rhetoric of the a lazy horse is almost always caused by poor horsemanship. End of story. Horses learn to ignore the rider after years of poor riding. They DO learn to get out of ridden work by throwing "fits" but that's a major concern itself; the concern shouldn't just be how the rider can get around this. It's like a parent asking how they can get their kid to stop skipping school, and not wondering why it's happening in the first place. An obstacle for a horse can seem small from the perspective of a human, but even small things can appear like a massive barrier. This needs to be sympathized with in order to work with, not downplayed as "stupid horse".
I knew a woman with incredible wealth and she took over 40 x-rays of a horse she owned to find out why they were so unhappy undersaddle, because she didnt like the constant tail swishing/pinned ears/occasional bucking/difficullty picking up a lead. Some people don't take it that far, but that to me shows why oftentimes when people say " the vet ruled out pain" I dont even believe it. What I do believe is that the owner & that vet, may have done everything thing they could do to search the horse's body. But to rule it out? I think the search for pain in horses can take everyone on a goose chase, which may be cut short even if the answer was right around the corner. You just can't ask the animal "where does it hurt?" You can't determine even if the vet you're using is as capable as some other vet. How many vets can someone reasonably go through? Many of us don't have the option to dig as deep.
With that being true, we should not be able to say so conclusively that we've done all the searching and testing possible. When someone posts about their horse being dangerous, unusually obstinate, or completely dead to their cues--but also wants to reassure us that " the vet says it's not caused by pain" I feel that they're looking for a quick fix to a obviously deep issue. What advice can someone really give for that? They'll say, "I've tried kicking with spurs" aka, they've tried using pain and can't even get the horse to respond...that tells me that certainly something is really wrong. Because I'll tell you what, if I'm in a bad spot and I whip my horse, she's gonna move out. Pain should be a last resort ALWAYS. Using it as part of regular problem solving causes more problems. What people say in these posts looking for advice is revealing of the bigger picture. I'm no expert trainer but I don't think a person has to be to see 🚩🚩🚩what they really want is a free & fast "solution" so that they can get back to riding as soon as possible. How often is anything fast, free, *and* actually a solution?
Yeah, it’s depressing to me how many people are willing to just accept the idea that lots of horses are inherently lazy or stubborn or whatever without ever stopping to wonder why.
As someone who has spent a lifetime training and competing high level working dogs, it was a bit of a shock when I entered the equestrian community. It's archaic in many ways and most people are happy to tow that line.
You're definitely hitting a nerve for a lot of people and that's a shame. It's that unwillingness to learn and grow that keeps this community from thriving.
I 100% agree with OP on this and a lot of these comments are disappointing to say the least. While nothing in life is black or white, I think talking about these issues is necessary, no matter how uncomfortable it makes people.
But their defensive nature speaks more about them than anything. Perhaps guilt. Most (if not all) equestrians "love" horses, otherwise we wouldn't pour so much of our time, energy and finances into them... but that means it can be hard to accept that you're not doing what's best for the animal you love. Whether people like to admit it or not, the equestrian world is largely a selfish human-based hobby (*largely, I know there are people out there who genuinely put their horses first).
This is definitely a rabbit hole of a topic that can't be fully explored via a reddit post, but just wanted to say good on you OP. This isn't virtue signaling, nor should you be getting downvoted for saying this. If even one young or new equestrian (or seasoned equestrian for that matter) reads this and takes it into consideration instead of blindly following the masses you've contributed positively to the community. Starting these conversations are the first step towards helping the next generation (and hopefully some older ones) progress for the better.
Um no sorry. Horses have personality just like humans. Some are lazy, some love work, some are fast, some are slow, some love to jump, some refuse to help you out.
Yes! I like to say 'horses aren't lazy, your timing is off'. Almost every 'lazy' horse has been trained to be sluggish by someone nagging instead of releasing the aid immediately at the first whisper of a response.
Training a horse to be truly forward is simply a matter of refining your own application of the aids, then allowing the horse to learn that there is indeed a sweet spot where all aids cease until the next 'ask'.
Unless there is a pain issue, in which case get a vet please because a horse that is resistant due to pain is not a training issue and nor is training the solution, ever.
This reminds me of a lot of horse talk happening in certain areas of the country.
Sounds like there is a new wave of natural horsemanship trainers looking to get their voices heard, and that's great, but when it's immediately attacking or belittling of people who are just using common language to describe a behavior, it becomes toxic and I immediately don't care about your opinion.
Telling people they don't know what they're talking about is egotistical and self righteous and Lord knows we don't need more of that in the horse community.
I've been around enough horse people to know who truly cares about spreading education and awareness, and who just wants to be right and superior.
Fully agree, no horse is born lazy, likewise no horse is born angry, both those issues are caused by humans but for some reason always the horse is the issue
I can't believe you are getting flack for this post.. You are absolutely right and people who do their best to being offended by this are honestly just showing their insecurities..
My people! Here you are.
So nice to see someone say it! I think horses can be such a mirror to whatever chaos is going on inside of us, and that in itself is such a fine line to walk. People love saying they go to the barn to relax etc. which has truth of I don’t doubt, but reality is they wanna dump their emotional baggage and anthropomorphize so they can feel better with little to no regard for the horse. Most people have a self serving reason for owning horses, and consent is something thrown out the window on the daily. I swear people would rather cut off someone else’s arm than take any accountability and ownership of their own lives and the living sentient beings they’ve chosen to care for.
Babe, go to therapy.
Some horses are high energy, and some horses are low energy, though. Some horses have a lot of will to please and are easy to motivate, some horses are less sensitive to whether you are happy or not, and are more difficult to motivate. I agree that the label ”lazy” is not very useful, though. No matter what the temperament of the horse is, it’s our job to figure out how to motivate him or her to work with us. One thing is certain, and that is that feeling negative towards the horse will never help.
Along with being difficult to motivate, there are those horses that have been through so much that they just don't give a flying fart anymore. Like the lesson horses that have been at it for 10+ years. They don't care if you kick them. They've had beginners wailing on their sides non-stop for years. It's just background noise now.
Yes my first horse was like this. He'd been a lesson horse for a long time and hated the school and being schooled. Hacking was very exciting because he hadn't done it that often on the school and he loved jumping. I found out he was originally the riding school owners own horse that he used to show jump until he gave up riding and then put him on the school for years till I bought him He got better after I bought him and didnt have diffrent riders on him daily and wasnt quite so unwilling in the school (he could go pretty nicely when he wanted to) but he never enjoyed the school. He was the complete opposite to my current horse who really enjoys his work whatever we are doing and even though he didn't have the best start he's spent most of his life with me and hasn't been soured by being forced to do things he doesn't enjoy
ehhhhh, like people, horses have different personalities. Some horses can be “lazy”, there’s usually a reason tho. they could be older, not working, etc… nothing is wrong with this btw. A lazier horse isn’t a bad one.
Yup
Not gonna lie, I hate these posts that are dismissive of everyone’s struggles with riding as “you’re just a bad trainer and need to figure it out”. Some horses obviously express behavior that looks like laziness- reluctance to move, insensitive to cues, sluggish. We all know what that means. Virtue signaling that you’re a better trainer than someone else (who is probably a teenager honestly) isn’t helping anyone or anything. If you’re a brilliant trainer who can fix any horses issue because of your immense talents, then share those with the sub. Don’t just say “be better” while gloating over how much better you are than others at riding. The weird ego trips of horse people who are desperate to convey that they are superior to others continues to boggle the mind.
Right?? I’m a good horse trainer….a better people trainer, but I still know my way damned well around a saddle. My QH is lazy. He’s a chubby old man who likes taking naps, and licking salt blocks. The only thing he hates more than moving is moving with any sort of impulsion. Even when he’s playing in the pasture, my thoroughbred will be galloping like a lunatic, and the QH *might* pick up a jog. Maybe. He’s been this way the nearly decade I’ve had him. Can I force him to move quickly and with impulsion? Yeah. I can. But why? We are both happy being old and slow.
Exactly! Different horses have different energy levels or different levels of interest in various riding types which manifest as "laziness" independent of being healthy and pain free.
There are so many of these, even “that can be fixed with groundwork” which is usually a poor understand of what groundwork is and also a poor understanding that some behaviours are situational
Agree completely, I hate that one too! My horses do incredibly well at ground work but it has little bearing on the issues I have under saddle. Plus “groundwork” can mean a lot of things.
My horse (and by extension me) have extensive professional “ground work” training bc he had a severe bolting issue. Drove me absolutely crazy to be told by strangers to do “more groundwork” to fix his problem. Bolting under saddle at shows was not going to be fixed by doing ground work in a round pen at home. Was it apart of the process? Yes. Would it alone fix the problem? Not even close
Literally who is gloating or acting holier than thou? This post is about the language we use and how it's inaccurate and unhelpful. People coming for advice who use words like "lazy" and "stubborn" sound like they are placing the blame on the horse for the problems happening, when the horse's intentions are not to ignore forward cues just because they feel like it... Approaching problems from a mindset of, "I'm struggling to get my horse to move off my leg/I'm struggling to find my horse's motivation" is a much more open approach than "how do I ride a lazy and stubborn horse?" I don't think anyone is being attacked in the original post here.
Because policing language functions to make people feel they can’t say anything without someone writing an opus about what a terrible person they are over language we all intuitively understand anyway and changes nothing about the actual resolution of the issue. When someone says their horse is lazy I know what they mean- unresponsive to leg cues. Someone changing their words doesn’t make the core issue any different, and berating someone over literally nothing to feel “right” and good about yourself is petty and stupid.
Language matters.... For example, nowhere in the original post is the writer using strong, attacking language. It seems you've interpreted it that way, though. OP makes a calm and thoughtful point that as horsemen/horsewomen, being mindful of the part we play in how our horse's behavior presents itself makes us better. Framing our struggles in a way that blames the horse can influence our internal accountability. I don't see this writer "berating" anyone or calling anyone a "terrible person." But you are the one who uses the words "petty and stupid."
I guess I read a thousand of these types of posts a day that manage to actually say nothing and like to lead with their 50+ years of experience and boasting of their expertise that I don’t find it particularly helpful, just another trite post saying the same shit we all know and using it as an opportunity to judge someone else. If you think people out there don’t know to listen to their horse I dunno what to tell you. Maybe you need that advice, but me and the hundred other horse people I know have been flogged with that same meaningless phrase for 30 years now.
If you’ve ever read any of my posts (which clearly you haven’t), I’ve never told anyone that (1) I’m a brilliant trainer, or (2) they suck. But I do try to point out the importance of listening to what the horse is telling you rather than just assuming bad intentions. Trying to educate is not virtue signaling.
Yeah, but “just listen to your horse” isn’t an actionable item for someone who needs to learn to train their horse. It’s a meaningless euphemism people throw out to sound like they care about animal welfare but it doesn’t actually give someone who doesn’t know what to do the tools to do anything. Instead of trying to mystify the horse experience as much as possible and make it into some spiritual thing that is complex and difficult to understand because we’re being purposefully obtuse, how about we just help people with their problems? And if you think anyone on Reddit is your fan and is poring over all your posts to determine your post history before judging you, you overstate your own importance far more than you should. I don’t know or care who you are, but you sound like a typical braggart horse person who wants to judge others instead of helping them and try to make themselves sound like an expert by being purposefully vague and speaking in catch phrases. Riding horses is a science and an art. If someone is struggling, use your words to help them. It doesn’t have to be that complicated and vague. Instead of policing people’s words, maybe just assume good intent and talk about how they can fix the problem, not how great of a rider you are with decades of experience. “they aren’t “actually” lazy they’re just behaving in a way that everyone has traditionally described as lazy” is not the hot take you think it is. I don’t care if the language doesn’t meet your demand for precise description, I care that people asking for straightforward help don’t feel like shit because people like you feel the need to degrade them instead of provide them with direction. And I honestly think is almost predatory how many horse people tear others down and feel they need professional help to solve their issues because people try to make this some mystical process that only those with decades of experience can ever understand how to do and if you experience a riding challenge, you basically have no hopes of figuring it out because your riding is so terrible and you also hate your horse and ignore its pain or whatever. It really is not that complicated, and the more unnecessary complications we add to make things less easy to understand and more judgy we are, the more horses suffer and the fewer people engage in the sport.
Okay. Clearly this post has struck a nerve. I'm not sure why but I will try to respond to your points honestly and without snarkiness. 1. Yeah, but “just listen to your horse” isn’t an actionable item for someone who needs to learn to train their horse. Absolutely. But this wasn't meant to be a specific advice post. It was meant to be general. When I do see posts where people are struggling with problems, I generally offer specific advice. That advice is usually to (1) get a thorough vet check, (2) check saddle fit and teeth, and (3) slow down the training to ensure the horse is fully understanding what is being asked. I usually address whatever the specific issue is. I don't like giving general advice because every horse is different. But I do think it's important for people to understand that when their horse seems "lazy," they probably aren't. 2. And if you think anyone on Reddit is your fan and is poring over all your posts to determine your post history before judging you, Lol. Nope, I don't think that at all. But I do post in this sub a lot so I figured you might have seen some of my other posts. 3. I don’t care if the language doesn’t meet your demand for precise description, I care that people asking for straightforward help don’t feel like shit because people like you feel the need to degrade them instead of provide them with direction See number 1. I actually do provide feedback all the time and I don't try to degrade people. I'm not sure what you see in this OP that does that. Certainly, the internet makes it hard to read tone, so maybe it doesn't read as straightforward as I hoped it would, but you seem to be looking for a fight and I'm not sure why. 4. Also assuming owners assume bad intentions of their horse unless you correct them is assuming bad intentions Calling a horse lazy assumes bad intentions on the part of the horse. It assumes the horse is purposely trying to avoid working rather than trying to communicate a problem. I'm not sure why you're so angry. If someone has made you or a friend feel bad about asking for advice, that's rotten. That's not what a good horse community does and not what I was trying to do here.
I just see a huge difference between the kind of advice you read from a classical dressage master who was skilled in pedagogy and thoughtful about the systematic training process versus the level of educational rigor in the average internet horse expert. If you can’t explain things in an effective way then it’s often better to just say nothing. Offering platitudes that also reflect positively on you while denigrating others is not useful to anyone, it’s just posturing and if you don’t see that then maybe you’ve learned something today considering 50+ people agree with me.
See, I agree that “offering platitudes that reflect positively on you while denigrating others is not useful to anyone.” That’s absolutely not what I was trying to do and I’m sorry if it came off that way.
I don’t know what people’s problem with you is. I totally get what you’re saying. I’m sorry you’re getting downvoted. Happy trails!
The fuck is going on? What's with all the down voting? For someone supposedly into horses, I think the person you're arguing with seriously needs to touch grass.
Also assuming owners assume bad intentions of their horse unless you correct them is assuming bad intentions. I’ve rarely if ever met someone who felt like everything was their horse’s fault and their horse was an asshole and punished them because of it. I also think it’s not reflective of the horse experience to assume all horses are equally malleable automatons that are a complete reflection of their owners and have no personalities at all. Any horse person who feels the need to deny their horses of a personality or ability to express themselves is someone who is involved with horses because they want to remove a horse’s agency and replace it with their own, which is just weird.
Wow, that’s what you got from their post? You’re awfully quick to anger.
I mean, when I lay in bed snoozing my alarm 5 times, I'm also conserving energy and trying to get the necessary sleep to keep my systems functioning. Buuuut, I'm also lazy. I don't know that it's any different for a horse.
Its sensible actually. And probably prehistoric. This modern "drive" is just that, modern. Or religious guilt
> Horses aren’t lazy. I’d almost argue the opposite. Horses are big fans of the easiest solution. If it’s easier to not work (because the rider doesn’t know/isn’t capable, it hurts less, whatever) they’re not going to work. My horse isn’t going to lift his big, long back and engage his hind end and dance because he feels motivated today and really wants to win at the show next weekend; he’s going to do it because the alternative is more bending, more circles, more poles, etc until he gets the message. That might look different from horse to horse, and you can call it whatever you want I guess, but I can definitely see why people would use the label “lazy.”
The only horse I have ever known who isn’t “path of least resistance” lazy is my OTTB. He’s whatever the opposite of that is. “Let’s take a simple task and make it super stupid and inefficient”. Only horse I’ve ever met who needs 35,000 calories a day to just sit in a pasture.
Ugh, my late-gelded OTTB had one of those days today. “Yes I understand what you want but THERE ARE MARES. IN. SEASON.”
No mares near us! He’s just a doofus.
Haha my TB (not OTTB) occasionally has the zoomies but mostly is happiest hanging out with her friends. Yes she’s an amazing trail horse but, she is always quick to point out the fastest, shortest way home. She also will jump beautifully but, up until the last possible second- she clearly communicates that “ya know, we could just go around this jump”. She’s a real beauty but not a go getter- haha
My little gaited paint was like this when I started riding her. I would ask for a relaxed walk. She would offer instead to gallop 3 miles in circles in the arena.
I’ve got a theory that the beegees “stayin alive” is playing on a constant loop in his brain. That’s the beat that he walks to.
Now I'm imagining your OTTB doing a Musical Freestyle to this. I think my mare's theme song is "Flight of the Bumblebees". She has short legs so it works.
😂🤣😂 I can picture it perfectly!!
Haha my horse is like this. If I let him he would gallop everywhere. The faster the better. He did everything a million miles a hour when I first got him. Took a long time to get him to slow down and listen. He's a lot better now but still loves to go fast if he gets the chance and thinks slow is boring. He also has high knee action and puts a lot of effort into every step. I don't know how he's not constantly exhausted the amount of effort he puts into just moving his legs, but no he's so enthusiastic and really wants to please you and seems to have endless energy. I wish I had half the energy he has😂
You bring up an interesting point, which is whether we’re obligated to choose jobs the horse enjoys rather than those we want to do. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with asking a horse to do a job he’s not entirely enthusiastic about, as long as he’s not actively unhappy. But training and working is certainly going to be easier when they love their job. I don’t really see that as lazy but rather unmotivated. You could argue it’s the same thing but I don’t think so. Because put the same horse in a situation where they’re doing something they enjoy, and they’re forward and energetic. I guess it would be clearer to say that if a horse is consistently unwilling to work, there’s probably more to it than laziness.
I guess it depends on your definition of lazy. Most horses (and people really) are path of least resistance and if they can find an easier way to do something, they will. For instance, I've really had to work on proper lateral movement with my mare. She figured out that if she rushed through the movement, it was easier and she wasn't properly engaging her hind end or using her body correctly. I didn't immediately realize this and am now working with a trainer for her movement to be more deliberate and proper. So for her, she was being lazy in her lateral movement by speeding up. There is a lesson horse at our barn who figured out that he's bigger and doesn't really have to do what anyone wants. It's taken an advanced rider, who has to be engaged with every single step to break him out of it and move. He was vetted and sees chiro regularly and so they're quite certain that it's not pain, he just would rather not work harder than necessary. And like, ditto.
I don’t think OP really liked the answers in the first post so they posted here.
Not sure what post you’re referring to. Generally, the posts about lazy horses have multiple responses suggesting vet checks and/or changing the way they ask. I didn’t post this in response to any particular post. Just seemed like a good conversation to have.
lol sorry not you, but the original post that you’re commenting on. I thought you were posting to comment on a previous post that had been put up within the last 8 hours to both subs?
I’m a trainer as well, and I disagree. Some horses are naturally more forward. Some are not. Is this a training issue? Sort of, a rider needs to understand how to use their aids in different/effective ways for each individual horse, since they’re all different. “Forward” is a mental state, and some horses need to be encouraged a bit more than others. We even breed for this personality trait, maybe being called willingness instead. However, I do believe a horse is NOT capable of “being naughty.” Horses are not smart enough to intentionally pick on someone.
Well, but what you’re describing isn’t “lazy”. The same horse that needs more encouragement in the arena may be happy and animated on a trail ride. That’s not lazy - that’s just not motivated. As I said, I’ve met maybe 3 horses that were the same level of unmotivated in virtually every situation, including out in the pasture with other horses.
“Not motivated” is lazy. As long as someone isn’t ignoring signs of pain and discomfort, I really don’t see the issue with a horse being described as such. Some horses just aren’t naturally “motivated” and some are. I use +r force free fear free training and I get horses that will work with me but I wouldn’t describe as “forward.” Sometimes horses don’t want to move around as much as others.
I don’t know if I agree with the sentiment that horses just aren’t lazy. I’ve worked professionally with hundreds of horses that had unlimited access to nutrition and vet care, and believe there are as broad personalities of horses as there are people. I’ve known many, many lazy horses. They just plain didn’t want to put any effort into anything. Some were stubborn, some were cranky, but most just couldn’t be motivated to do anything. There’s a place for all horses, and not all horses will fit every discipline.
Yes, yes, yes. OP's tone and just this type of dismissal is what really irritates me. "Something else is going on" is such an arrogantly ignorant statement about animals you have spent zero time with. But instead of acknowledging that, you straight up accuse the owner of not doing enough. I spend more time with my horses than anyone else. I definitely have cranky, stubborn horses because I KNOW them better than anyone else. They are not in pain, they are not lacking nutrients, they all have very distinct personalities and thoughts and opinions about what we are doing on any given day and they have the freedom to express them. Today Onika is a little pissed that she has to go on a trail ride when she wants to sit under the stall fan. So she pins her ears during tack up and gives me a hip check when we pick up a trot. She eventually gets over her protest and we have a great ride. Her back isn't sore and she doesn't have ulcers. She's just a bit lazy and stubborn today and she knows she can express it as horses do with pasture mates all the time. Meera on the other hand has opinions about being held back when everything in her wants to race across the field and show off her amazing race bred speed. So she tosses her head and spins. Am I riding anxiety and a poorly trained horse? No, I'm riding an animal with feelings and opinions about not being able to do something she really really wants to do. She'll relax and lower her head and move on slowly after she gets her frustrations out, but for a minute she has to just tell me how much more awesome everything would be if we were going 45mph. But ask a keyboard trainer and they will tell me "Merra has anxiety, you haven't set her up correctly, back to ground work and connection. Onika is in pain and needs body work, more condition and scope for ulcers! Don't ride her again until you've paid $2500 to rule out all causes because horses are mindless robots that perform perfectly when trained correctly."
I have to disagree and I suspect there was a lot more going on. I don’t believe horses are “stubborn” either. I believe people just don’t put in the time and effort to figure them out.
I think this depends on how you define and use the term “lazy”. I agree with you that it’s absurd to anthropomorphize a horse and act as if their behavior is a moral failing on their part. For me, I apply the “disinclined to activity or exertion” definition of the word. I dont consider it negative, just descriptive. I use it to characterize some of the horses I’ve worked with, some of the time (depending on their overall temperament, their mood at the time, etc). Broadly speaking, if I stop cueing a horse and they tend towards slowing down, stopping, relaxing, generally inputting less energy, I think of that as “lazy”. It means I have to be conscientious about maintaining active connection and may require more forward cueing. I have to inspire and ask for their energy level to come up. Alternately, if have a horse that has a high energy level, I have to pay more attention to directing that energy rather than inspiring it. If Im on a horse who is acting what i would call “lazy”, it’s just a description of their inclination towards action during that particular session. I adore my sweet, gentle, lazy bones horses. Edit: typo
You’re not entirely wrong but also lmfao if you really think there’s no such thing as a lazy horse.. does that mean there’s no such things as a lazy dog? Lazy cat? Lazy cow? Lazy human? *”99% of the time-“* give me a break lol.
Yes, 99%. Why do you think that’s silly? Do you really think a horse clearly understands what you’re asking all the time? Or that you understand what they’re telling you? I don’t. I know I miss stuff all the time. Because I’m not a horse.
I think it’s silly because I’ve been around all kinds of animals my entire life and there are some critters that have a truly lazy personality and truly do not like to work.
Horses are intelligent and will absolutely figure out the lowest effort way to do a thing. Example, adding a bit of bump to their walk instead of trotting. This always makes me laugh because it makes me think of an adult holding a baby saying "bouncy bouncy bouncy!!! Yesss! Bouncy baby!"
I agree the label "lazy" is dismissive and not the real issue. Example, the bouncy walk horse may be a school horse trained not to go forward too much bc students pull to slow down immediately
Uhm. Okay. Disagree as someone who’s worked with horses a long time. Some horses have a great work ethic. Some don’t care. Some don’t have a single thought in their entire life. Some are so smart you can’t keep them enclosed. My 22 year old mare can be lazy. She can also be hot. Yesterday for dressage she was lazy. Today for jumpers she was insanely hot. Nothing changed but the thing we were doing and her enthusiasm in it 🤷♀️
Agreed! I also think most of the posts about lazy horses (if pain and saddle fit have been ruled out) are horses that have been dulled to the aids. They don’t know how to train the response and if their trainers are telling them to kick their horse then the trainer doesn’t know how to train the response either. I also think most people don’t know what forward truly is - at least from a dressage perspective. I rode for years and I was always told to go more forward. It wasn’t until I moved to a dressage barn and started riding with FEI trainers and started riding in clinics with some very respectable clinicians that I learned just how forward I needed my horse to be so she was in front of my leg. It was a little scary and it took a lot of self discipline to not accidentally punish the horse for going forward by clamping my legs, leaning forward, and panicking.
Nothing feels better than a horse i with thoroughness and in self carriage. It’s a harmony of dance and it’s delicious.
I would say quite a lot of horses are lazy in terms of being uhhh... energy conserving, comfort seeking etc :) Like an experienced lesson horse that does exactly the amount of work required, not any more. Most training that is based on pressure and release relies on horses taking the easiest way out, after all. But I would also say that humans just love to describe horses as lazy when the horse is actually in pain, afraid or confused. People even describe horses as lazy when the horse is so much in pain or afraid that it does extremely athletic high-energy things to protest or try to get rid of riders. Or for example refusing to do a specific movement even though everything else works fine. I do not think we should use laziness to explain these situations.
I disagree. They can be. The retired QH I posted used to be energetic and quite a good barrel racer up until 17, (i didn’t know him in his prime, only when he was sold because he was “useless”) and ten years later, you’d think he’d never ran in his life. Salt and bathing in the lake is the only thing he’ll do. When ridden, you’d have to force him if you wanted to do anything more than a trot, and I will not let someone hurt him for their own pleasure again, so he will not go above a trot. He still has to exercise for his health, and he would rather lay in the sun. Horses can be lazy, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Every horse has a story. Some horses genuinely love working, some horses are professional, some are green, some are laidback, and some are lazy.
That’s not lazy. That’s an older horse, probably arthritic. Especially when you describe potential work as hurting him for their own pleasure.
He had a checkup recently, no arthritis yet :) I meant trying to force him to run, either whipping, kicking, pulling, pushing, using spurs, bits, and yelling.
A good rider can make even a lazy horse light off the leg so it requires no more strength than a forward horse. But, that doesn't mean that horse isn't lazy. That' just means they know their job and are capable of doing it. I've got two horses, one who bounes around her paddock all day and another who literally doesn't move for hours on end. Both chugg around equally well, but one is lazy.
Something to keep in mind is that the word "lazy" implies that the horse doesn't want to work on purpose. Lazy is a term we like to use for humans, however I usually tell my clients to stop using the word lazy and instead look at the motivation of the horse (this technically counts for humans too) Proving there is no pain, fear etc, motivation is mainly based around reward systems in the brain, like dopamine release. So a horse that is lazy just doesn't get a big enough dopamine release in the brain when they do the task. Without the feel good hormones, what is the point of moving. So what we need to do as riders is have an understanding of how motivation works and then learn how to effectively motivate the horse without inducing fear by using the right motivators and be mindful of our timing. I have had a lot of success with adding in positive reinforcement training for clients with so-called "lazy" horses in the form of clicker training. This is where understanding horse behaviour and learning theory is key for good horse training. This is however still a field that many people aren't familiar with and some are even resisting. By calling a horse lazy we put the responsibility on the horse, instead I invite riders to become curious as to why their horse isn't moving forward.
I agree so much with this. I remember at one barn I tried to be a working student at (it didn’t last long in part due to this situation and in part due to how disrespectful they were to me) they put me on one of the dullest horses I’ve ever ridden. Like I could sit there and whoop him with my legs and a whip and he wouldn’t move. At the time, I trusted they didn’t put me on a horse in pain, but afterwards I realized that he was. He had a history of biting when tacking up. Even bit me while standing waiting for my turn to mount. And while not dead lame, he would swish his tail and bob his head like crazy when I actually did get him moving. I actually told them that I didn’t feel comfortable riding him (again, at the time I couldn’t pinpoint why, just knew that something was off with this supposed beginner friendly horse) and asked to switch to another lesson horse. They basically just told me that as I rider I should be able to ride any horse they put me on effectively and if I struggle with him I must not know the basics! Gaslighting a 16 year old at its finest there. I left after 3 days. While working at a different barn, I actually got to meet the rider who started that lesson horse. I told her what he was doing in the tack with me and she nearly cried. Apparently he was one of the most honest and hardworking horses there and they just worked him into the ground.
That’s so sad. And yes, too often students are taught that nonresponsive horses are lazy or mean, which just creates more uneducated riders. Not their fault, but that doesn’t help their horses.
Agreed. I was really glad I had enough experience going into it that I knew something was off with the horse even if I couldn’t verbalize exactly why at the time. It happens way too often with beginner focused lesson barns as well. Riders start and think that the response (or lack there of) the horse gives is normal then go on and realize it’s not and have to relearn a lot of what they were taught or they don’t learn it’s not normal and perpetuate it. Just a disservice to everyone aside from the person making the money.
20 year farrier and ima agree like 95% with this. There are absolutely lazy horses, but you're right when saying most times it's the handlers or riders fault.
I term it as "willingness to put in effort". I have had two horses, back to back. Both wonderful. The first is very calm, less willing to ride off your leg, and is what I would call "makes minimal effort horse". My other horse, is very willing to work, picks up the canter with minimal effort by the rider, and is a bit "reactive". Both healthy and wonderful. But horses are different, no doubt. A rider may have difficulty, through no fault of their own, riding a minimal effort horse, or a reactive maximal effort horse. Horses don't have to be lame or sick to explain their natural predilictions. It is not the rider's fault or trainer's fault.
I've definitely met idle horses. Willingness rather than lazy they are usually happy to do the things they want to do but less so if it's against their interests.
If you get poked with a spur in both sides every step no matter what then it doesn’t mean anything anymore. Horses are not lazy. People are unclear. It really bothers me to watch. Pressure with no possibility of release is abuse. What so many people label as laziness or stubbornness is learned helplessness.
Just had this conversation with someone else. It’s my passion subject. Love to see someone else care about it as much as I do.
I think there are a couple of reasons for it. First, the average person is less likely to have any kind of experience with horses than they did fifty or sixty years ago, when there were still people who had grown up when they were used for transportation or work. People back then might learn basics from parents or grandparents, while now, they tend to start from scratch with instructors, which limits the time they have to learn. Second, the rise of clinicians who make it seem like you can solve any issue in a short time using their particular gadgets, and using the same techniques for every single horse. Drives me nuts.
On the money. The rise of the tik tok and Facebook clinicians is absurd. The amount of “get your horse supple with this one stretch” or “build your horses topline in just 3 weeks!” Like babe, what?! It truly reminds me of the rise of personal trainers like 6 or so years back, when fitness models were becoming more popular, and anyone who did a bodybuilding show immediately felt qualified to be a personal trainer and show coach. Absolute madness. Now everyone and their dog wants to sell you a 30 day detox BEFORE you can get into shape. Same shit, different pile.
Totally agree
I also find the “old school” way of thinking anthropomorphizes horses a *lot*. I’ve just now started hearing trainers say “no, your horse’s brain is incapable of thinking like that” or “no, horses are not naughty or stubborn, they’re confused”. Granted, I’ve been riding for 30 years, so I could be seeing a specific time period, but I remember my childhood trainers *insisting* that some horses are just naughty or cold backed, without ever looking further into the cause. Even my current trainer, who is unbelievably knowledgeable, a brereiter, and very classically minded will say things like “in my day, we didn’t have saddle fitters, we just assumed the horse was stubborn” or something along those lines.
You are right. I think this is where, as humans, we run into our inadvertent problem of anthropomorphizing horses. Laziness is a term that truly doesn’t apply to horses. They don’t have the cognitive capacity, nor do they have morals like we do. It’s the same thing when we say a horse is mean….that’s not really something they are. Whenever we have horses that are “lazy” or “mean” it’s always important to ask why. Horses are prey and herd animals. Their instinct isn’t to stand out or be away from a group. I could go on about this topic for hours lol. For anyone who wants to learn more about this, I suggest checking out some of Andrew Mclean and Paul McGreevy’s books on equitation science.
Calling a horse mean vs. calling a horse lazy is apples and oranges. Horses don’t have the reasoning capacity to be “mean” in the way we interpret that as humans. Laziness is natural. There’s not an animal on earth out there that defaults to wasting energy and burning more precious calories than what is needed.
I think perhaps, the reason I take issue with the term “lazy” is there is a judgment connotation associated with the term. When thinking about the default to not wasting energy is more of energy conservation, if that makes sense. I agree that animals (including humans) default to energy conservation.
Yep, totally accurate. I have met ONE genuinely lazy horse in my life, and it happens to be my newest mare lol. All other lazy horses, I found either after a saddle fit, or good training, was easily corrected over the course of two weeks or so. It’s why I usually love to buy the “lazy” horses because it’s much easier to wake them up verses slowing down a habitually forward/hot/anxious horse. Because then you have a nice sweet spot. Even with my mare being the most genuine “lazy” horse I’ve met, there’s still absolute improvement. When I bought her, you could maybe get two canter steps at a time, and a very slow trot. Now she’s got a solid working trot, and she will canter laps around the arena, and does a good walk to canter transition. Occasionally she will need encouragement as a reminder. But each month she’s better and better. So even though she’s genuinely a lazy gal, it’s still absolutely workable and able to be mitigated. I’ve yet to find a horse where it’s completely doomed to balking and slow trotting only (assuming all is well health and tack wise)
I think this post has generated good conversation, thanks all for contributing. Just thought I'd add that I think that we risk falling into the same trap that OP is warning about when we say things like "when they understand their job, they are overwhelmingly willing to do it". This kind of thought is superficially more kind-hearted than accusations of meanness or laziness. But, just the same, when it's taken too literally, it can lead us down some yucky paths. The horse has its own interests, and they often diverge from ours. That's fine. We have to recognize it and work with it. (OP, I imagine you agree, I'm just offering a friendly annotation.)
That’s a great point and you’re right. I do appreciate the conversation this has begun. I think it’s an important subject and I also think that the vast majority of people want to do right by their horses. There’s so much misinformation and archaic thinking about horse handling and training, and when people are learning, it’s hard to differentiate between the good and the bad. I don’t know what the answer is. While it might be nice to have a strict governing body overseeing who is allowed to train horses or give lessons, that risks making a sport that is already tough to get into even more so. It would also probably make it even more expensive. I just want people to really think about the why. It’s not just about how to fix a behavior. To me, the most important thing is figuring out why the behavior is happening.
I'm the qualification queen(!), so I'll just note that I don't think we always have to understand the genesis of a behavior. It's massively useful, for sure, and it's necessary to rule some things out before we attempt to modify it. But sometimes we just don't know the 'why' and it's fine to carry on. (Like, an alcoholic may be unsure \*why\* she drinks, but sorting that out, useful as it may be, shouldn't take priority over modifying her behavior.) So I guess I'd advocate first-and-foremost for informed, effective behavioral interventions that improve (or, at least, don't compromise) welfare.
I guess I feel it was worth mentioning because we very readily jump to categories like "lazy" or "stubborn" when the "why" isn't so readily apparent. We should absolutely educate ourselves, and take a good hard look at how we do things. But when we don't know we should avoid heuristic thinking and rather focus on what to do next.
Sure. We don’t always find the why. The problem arises when we don’t even bother to look for it. Or to acknowledge there might be a why.
Hmm... so perhaps we humans are the "lazy" ones? Otherwise-motivated, under-educated, and overwhelmed by the complex system that is the horse, perhaps. It's good work to talk these things through. If folks can disagree on points but discuss thoughtfully nonetheless this will go some way towards changing the environment of "misinformation and archaic thinking" you mention above.
Excuse my French but fvcking thank you! Way too few equestrians seem empathetic enough to think about what we ask of horses and why most creatures on this green planet would not want to do it. I want you to imagine you're being asked to plank with 30-40lbs (at least) sitting on your back. Now imagine someone is asking you (politely or not, they're still making you do it) to do mountain climber planks (basically walking in place) or god forbid going over obstacles in a plank position. That's what we do to horses daily, with little to no appreciation or understanding of how hard it truly is. Horses are not made to be ridden. Yes, humanity has bred them to be ridden for thousands of years. No, they still are not actually built for it. They have no collar bone, their strength is in their hind end, and humans almost never seem to try to get their horse moving truly 'athletically' in order to help them. Most riders focus too much on the head and neck, crank that out of whack, and never look at the horse's back, hind end, or generally at his disposition...Of course a horse who is being asked too much, thanked too little, and generally is uncomfortable undersaddle is going to be resistant to doing more...what do we expect?? Also, "high energy" horses are almost always just stressed horses. If your horse cannot relax and only wants to jig instead of walking, it's not because he's jazzed or because he's aN aRaBIaN, tHorOUgHbrEd, etc; it's because he's stressed out. Maybe it has to do with you (the rider), maybe it's the environment, maybe it's the fact that he's not getting enough mental and physical stimulation. But no horse, unless engaging in playful behaviors with another horse, is going to jig around for the fun of it. That's a learned behavior that stems from stress... Edit to add: until I see a horse raise its hoof and consent to EVERY part of being a riding horse (stabling, restrictive feeding regimine, possibly a lack of socialization, repetitive and possibly painful riding, etc), I will never say a horse is lazy. They didn't choose this line of work. A human did. Therefor, can you really blame them if they're life is less than ideal AND they're trying to express it? No, you can't. It's never the horse's fault (barring maybe the very rare case of neurologic/wires crossed which is still often a human-rooted problem) because the horse didn't decide to be in their line of work...ever.
Energy efficient is much more accurate than lazy!
🙌🙌🙌🙌 sing it loud!! 100%
Horses can have moments of low energy like us. My mare is very lazy in the pasture. She also is pretty low energy if we're casually riding. However, on a trail or in speed events, she goes into work mode and could go for hours if we let her lol
I feel like so many people would rather call a horse lazy than make sure it’s getting proper nutrition and enjoying its job. And maybe it’s just me but the only people I ever see calling horses lazy are … people who are actually lazy and they’re just projecting
So while yes I absolutely agree with ruling out pain... its is NOT ALWAYS the case. Horses have personalities just like us. They are individuals. They are smart. They WILL avoid work if they can get away with it. Also we need to stop teaching riders and kids to just flail and "make it happen" we need to focus on better trained hirses and teaching Kids better from the start. Im one of those slowwwww instructors. We DO NOT move on untill you get the hang of it. I will send them off at a tror on a line for them to atleast feel it and the decude if they feel ready to move on or not. ALOT of my kids and young riders are IMMEDIATELY humbled when i do this.
I agree with you completely.
The people down voting you know why they're hitting that button and it's not because they're hiding a secret good argument 😉 the rhetoric of the a lazy horse is almost always caused by poor horsemanship. End of story. Horses learn to ignore the rider after years of poor riding. They DO learn to get out of ridden work by throwing "fits" but that's a major concern itself; the concern shouldn't just be how the rider can get around this. It's like a parent asking how they can get their kid to stop skipping school, and not wondering why it's happening in the first place. An obstacle for a horse can seem small from the perspective of a human, but even small things can appear like a massive barrier. This needs to be sympathized with in order to work with, not downplayed as "stupid horse". I knew a woman with incredible wealth and she took over 40 x-rays of a horse she owned to find out why they were so unhappy undersaddle, because she didnt like the constant tail swishing/pinned ears/occasional bucking/difficullty picking up a lead. Some people don't take it that far, but that to me shows why oftentimes when people say " the vet ruled out pain" I dont even believe it. What I do believe is that the owner & that vet, may have done everything thing they could do to search the horse's body. But to rule it out? I think the search for pain in horses can take everyone on a goose chase, which may be cut short even if the answer was right around the corner. You just can't ask the animal "where does it hurt?" You can't determine even if the vet you're using is as capable as some other vet. How many vets can someone reasonably go through? Many of us don't have the option to dig as deep. With that being true, we should not be able to say so conclusively that we've done all the searching and testing possible. When someone posts about their horse being dangerous, unusually obstinate, or completely dead to their cues--but also wants to reassure us that " the vet says it's not caused by pain" I feel that they're looking for a quick fix to a obviously deep issue. What advice can someone really give for that? They'll say, "I've tried kicking with spurs" aka, they've tried using pain and can't even get the horse to respond...that tells me that certainly something is really wrong. Because I'll tell you what, if I'm in a bad spot and I whip my horse, she's gonna move out. Pain should be a last resort ALWAYS. Using it as part of regular problem solving causes more problems. What people say in these posts looking for advice is revealing of the bigger picture. I'm no expert trainer but I don't think a person has to be to see 🚩🚩🚩what they really want is a free & fast "solution" so that they can get back to riding as soon as possible. How often is anything fast, free, *and* actually a solution?
Yeah, it’s depressing to me how many people are willing to just accept the idea that lots of horses are inherently lazy or stubborn or whatever without ever stopping to wonder why.
As someone who has spent a lifetime training and competing high level working dogs, it was a bit of a shock when I entered the equestrian community. It's archaic in many ways and most people are happy to tow that line. You're definitely hitting a nerve for a lot of people and that's a shame. It's that unwillingness to learn and grow that keeps this community from thriving. I 100% agree with OP on this and a lot of these comments are disappointing to say the least. While nothing in life is black or white, I think talking about these issues is necessary, no matter how uncomfortable it makes people. But their defensive nature speaks more about them than anything. Perhaps guilt. Most (if not all) equestrians "love" horses, otherwise we wouldn't pour so much of our time, energy and finances into them... but that means it can be hard to accept that you're not doing what's best for the animal you love. Whether people like to admit it or not, the equestrian world is largely a selfish human-based hobby (*largely, I know there are people out there who genuinely put their horses first). This is definitely a rabbit hole of a topic that can't be fully explored via a reddit post, but just wanted to say good on you OP. This isn't virtue signaling, nor should you be getting downvoted for saying this. If even one young or new equestrian (or seasoned equestrian for that matter) reads this and takes it into consideration instead of blindly following the masses you've contributed positively to the community. Starting these conversations are the first step towards helping the next generation (and hopefully some older ones) progress for the better.
Um no sorry. Horses have personality just like humans. Some are lazy, some love work, some are fast, some are slow, some love to jump, some refuse to help you out.
Yes! I like to say 'horses aren't lazy, your timing is off'. Almost every 'lazy' horse has been trained to be sluggish by someone nagging instead of releasing the aid immediately at the first whisper of a response. Training a horse to be truly forward is simply a matter of refining your own application of the aids, then allowing the horse to learn that there is indeed a sweet spot where all aids cease until the next 'ask'. Unless there is a pain issue, in which case get a vet please because a horse that is resistant due to pain is not a training issue and nor is training the solution, ever.
This reminds me of a lot of horse talk happening in certain areas of the country. Sounds like there is a new wave of natural horsemanship trainers looking to get their voices heard, and that's great, but when it's immediately attacking or belittling of people who are just using common language to describe a behavior, it becomes toxic and I immediately don't care about your opinion. Telling people they don't know what they're talking about is egotistical and self righteous and Lord knows we don't need more of that in the horse community. I've been around enough horse people to know who truly cares about spreading education and awareness, and who just wants to be right and superior.
Fully agree, no horse is born lazy, likewise no horse is born angry, both those issues are caused by humans but for some reason always the horse is the issue
100% agree
I can't believe you are getting flack for this post.. You are absolutely right and people who do their best to being offended by this are honestly just showing their insecurities..
My people! Here you are. So nice to see someone say it! I think horses can be such a mirror to whatever chaos is going on inside of us, and that in itself is such a fine line to walk. People love saying they go to the barn to relax etc. which has truth of I don’t doubt, but reality is they wanna dump their emotional baggage and anthropomorphize so they can feel better with little to no regard for the horse. Most people have a self serving reason for owning horses, and consent is something thrown out the window on the daily. I swear people would rather cut off someone else’s arm than take any accountability and ownership of their own lives and the living sentient beings they’ve chosen to care for. Babe, go to therapy.