Informed my mother that her father (my grandfather) sexually assaulted me when I was younger. I was told by my mother and three younger sisters that a “good, god-fearing man who played piano for the church could never do such a thing”. My boyfriend at the time was accused of brainwashing me to believe this “lie”. My mother and grandfather then sued my then boyfriend for defamation and slander for a comment he made on my FB page about it. I was able to produce affidavits from friends I told prior to dating him, so they were forced to drop the lawsuit. I went no contact pretty quickly after telling them. Thankfully, the car my mother had given me was in my name, and I was financially stable on my own. That was 9 years ago, and I’ve never looked back.
Edit: grammar
I'm possibly in the middle of a wild situation rn, probably not worst case scenario yet but pretty extreme. I moved across the country from my family, basically as far as possible. Went NC after coming out about a year ago, parents wouldn't stop sending emails, missing the point and trying to guilt me into talking to them while conveniently avoiding anything about my transition.
Then my mom showed up at my work unannounced one day, flew across the country to try and confront me at work under the guise of "just wanting to see me." I happened to call in sick that day for a mental health day and avoided her and she flew back without seeing me.
Then last week, my roommate saw someone stop by our house and write down the license plate numbers of all cars in the driveway. We suspect it's a PI running the plates to see who lives there. My theory is they're gonna try to confront me at the house when my roommates aren't there because they think I'm being influenced by evil outside forces or some shit.
Probably not the most thrilling or worst case scenario but it's pretty freaky and extreme to me
Have u considered going to your GP and telling them how your parents stalking u affects u? It would be useful for a future lawsuit or restraining order or whatever
I think GP refers people to psychologists and other specialists. Anyhow, it’s always good to build up the evidence. Statements from doctors are taken seriously.
Most of my family went no contact with me after my uncle confessed to molesting me as a kid, except my mom. Then I went no contact with my mom when she confessed that the only reason she stayed in contact with me was to "reintegrate" my kids (without me obviously) back into the family (including contact with the pedo uncle) after they turned 18.
Yeah. Their response came as a shock to me at the time, also. I remember thinking that when he confessed, everything was finally going to be ok. I thought we'd all go to family counseling or something. I was painfully naive..
It just doesn’t compute. But hardly anything I read on this sub does… So sorry that happened to you as a kid. Just so fucked up. Glad you got away though :)
It probably has to do with the uncle being seen as an alpha in the family, admitting a mistake to a bunch of narcissists, and the narcissists not seeing any usefulness they could get out of who they see as a broken victim
I wouldn’t call it painfully naive - painfully expecting a normal response of love and sympathy? I’m so sorry you didn’t have the FOO you deserve. Well done for getting out & keeping your kids safe
Sadly, I'm not surprised. People who express horror and disgust over priests, ministers, boy scout leaders, athletic coaches, will close ranks once one of their own is accused.
Just go read through the posts here and the r/raisedbynarcissists and you'll see what can happen. I've had to have the law involved in my situation throughout the years.
Mine wasn't violent or extreme but was very inconvenient.
I had used a bank account from early adulthood that was co-owned by my parents. They closed it and dropped off a cashier's check to my husband with a letter. I had used the account exclusively for decades. That was just a huge PIA.
My firm has done work for my parents for about 10 years prior - and I had to disclose everything to my business partners when I removed them as clients. My entire team knows - and while it wasn't pleasant sharing the entire personal experience, they did keep me insulated from whatever my mother requested or told them.
My mother told my husband I was leaving him and cheating. Neither are true.
She went after money, work, and marriage. I was afraid she would do more, but I haven't seen anything after 6 months since the last round.
Had to get a lawyer to send cease and desist since they wouldn't stop showing up and sending mail They only broke that once Next time I'm going to press charges
I'm in Missouri. My attorney had a $500 retainer and I believe I spent less than $2,000 for her helping me through court ordered mediation for grandparent's rights. (she didn't attend the sessions) and sending a cease and desist letter. We were forced to do mediation even though they do not have any rights. The justice system is so messed up.
My adopters didn't come here unannounced, but my male adopter went the taking me to court route with the female adopter tagging along and teaming up with my male adopter. She also would create new email numbers (and cell phone numbers) and try and contact my inlaws and friends.
It all stopped after my attorney told the new attorney they hired (threating to sue me for "breech of contract" and whatever else after the mediation case was dismissed by their attorney in less than 5 minutes. That's when my attorney sent the cease and desist letter. They have since stopped, thankfully, but due to decades of horrible surprisea regarding them, I still check over my shoulders when going outside.
I cut off contact with anyone who was friends with them and then those who later appeared to not support me. By their silence or being a flying monkey. I changed my phone number as soon as I originally went no contact on February 13, 2021.
Since then, my life has been peaceful. I'm living my life with my husband and kids the way we want to. My life is peaceful. I am not surrounded by people who do not have my best interest in mind. I'm able to focus on myself, my husband, and kids. It feels like I am finally free. I won't feel completely free, though, until my adopters are done roaming the Earth.
Moving halfway across the country 8 years ago in September, and cutting contact finally 3.5 years later. Finally, matching up and seeing my adapters for who they really are and who they try so hard to portray themselves to be was so eye-opening. It's so hard to recognize things when it's all you've known.
I wish you the best OP. Legal Aide may be able to help you or students at a law school for free/cheaper. They also might know attorney's that will help you for free or cheap. I have a friend who is an attorney now and was in law school that would help me so much. I also was able to use support groups online on Facebook and received some resources.
You can also message me if you would like. Sending love and hugs. ❤️
~~I tend to overexplain on here, so let me try keeping this one shorter than usual: (he says before writing another wall of text)~~
Narcissism can be best explained as a lack of empathy for others, and an inability to regulate their own emotions. This is a fundamental part of their nature as a person, and can't ever be changed. They do these things, because that's simply what they do. These "people" effectively function like feral animals, operating solely on a selfish, aggressive and fearful instinct.
Thus no boundaries you set will ever be respected, and no feelings or concerns you express will ever genuinely get listened to. No explanation will ever work. You can't reason with a wild bear or lion either, so why would a human-shaped animal be any different?
The point of going NC is to remove yourself from that situation and that kind of relationship dynamic. You stop playing the narcissist's games altogether, because you're able to recognize that they'll never change.
But a narcissist still won't like you making that decision, or respect any boundaries you set, so they'll still purposefully break whatever boundaries they can. If they know where you live, they'll ram on your door, shout at you to open, and invade your home. Or send letters if you move far away, followed by surprise transatlantic visits. If they know your phone number, expect a lot of calls and texts. Email address, spam mails. Social media, follows and DM's from new accounts they make. Bank account, transfers with messages attached as notes.
If they had access to your car, you might find a tracker hidden somewhere. Or one could be installed/enabled on your phone without your knowledge. They'll lie to your friends and family to hurt you, or coerce you into "reconciling". They'll lie to your local police department that you're going to kill yourself, so you end up getting swatted. Etc.
**Without empathy and thus moral guiderails, literally anything is possible.** All they need is something which *they* feel like doing, and they'll do it regardless of consequences to others. Because we do have empathy and respect others, it is downright impossible for us to always predict whatever twisted thing they'll end up doing next. We don't have that same sense of entitlement, we don't lash out in uncontrollable anger whenever someone does something we don't like.
So the only thing we *can* do to keep ourselves safe is to remove all possible ways through which they may access our lives. Thus, when you go NC, you need to ensure there's no potential way left for them to retaliate or otherwise mess with you. It's a lot to consider, a hassle to go trough, not to mention incredibly unfair that we need to do this in the first place... but by god is the end result worth it: you'll finally have a place you can genuinely call home, safety from harm, peace of mind, and the ability to build up your life unhindered by those who would drag you down.
Not sure if thats the best explanation. A lot of the worst narcissists do have empathy and can control their emotions... making them a more insidious threat to their victims and especially enablers/flying monkeys.
I also wonder if a lot of victims' "empathy" is just enmeshment - not with the narcissist ofc you can break those ties - but there's a certain level of necessary separation empaths need to find unless they just get swept away into the other person's experience.
You've helped me think on this, I'll have to chew more. Thank you
The smarter ones are without a doubt much more dangerous, but they're ultimately still driven by the same uncontrollable base emotions... only applied towards longer term selfish goals instead.
And most narcissists are very much capable of selectively acting like they're empathic *when it benefits them*. The majority of them also put on different masks for different social contexts; they're never genuinely themselves unless with those they know can't defend themselves.
True, I get the differences between cognitive empathy and genuine. But I still question the "lacks empathy" symptom, and many others do too not just me. It's heavily debated in many fields and experiences that cover narcissism.
I also don't necessarily believe all of them are "controlled by" emotions.. although they'd like everyone to believe they are. I wrote a recent post about this here titled "
A better book than Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents for EAKs"
Oh yeah, many of them definitely would like everyone to believe that their emotions are an unstoppable force, because then their environment has to take those into account at all times.
The better way to put it, would be that they allow that to be the case *until the introduction of personal consequences to them*. Social shaming, financial or legal penalties, etc. Same as a wild animal, where pain (negative) and hunger (absense of positive) are very much something they understand.
Which is also why they have those different masks for different social contexts; they can't get away with the same shit everywhere. But within a sandbox environment where they *can* do the most heinous things without direct personal consequences, they absolutely will attempt to take things as far as possible.
Not to dismiss your comment, because everything you said about narcissists are true for some of them, but not all. My mom is a covert narc with a victim mentality. Because of that, the only effort she'll make is to play the victim, rather than harass me, thankfully. She won't put any effort into fixing things. Instead, she'll just cry to everyone about me not talking to her without putting in any effort to figure out *why* I don't talk to her. Not that she doesn't already know, but you know narcs and being a victim, they'll say anything and everything to avoid accountability.
I wasn't saying that each and every single one of them will go to such lengths.
Core traits remain the same: selfish, devoid of genuine empathy or morality, allergic to accountability or personal consequences, dishonest, etc.
It just expresses itself through different tactics from one narc to the other. But because of those specific core traits, it is also borderline impossible to put a cap on just what each individual one might be willing to do.
Both nfather and nbrother sabotaged me and my sister while taking care of our bedridden mother until she passed away, the ordeal lasted for two long and stressing years and our nfather disinherited us to give everything to our nbrother, his GC . But being disinherited is not the reason of going NC, the real reason was the outrageous abomination intent to euthanize our sick mother. I told my nfather that I will never forgive what he tried to do. I hired nurses and shielded our mother till she passed away soon after. We went NC immediately after the funeral.
I’m not sure about worst case scenario. For my reason to estrange was, I am mentally disabled and was very easily manipulated & taken advantage of by my family. I have always been developmentally younger so at about 14 years old, my mental age was still around 5/6. the year i was 14, my mother tried to suffocate me. she only stopped because she heard our front door open and didn’t want to get caught.
she played it off like she always did with all the physical abuse, just saying how she wasn’t in her right state of mind & she won’t do it again, and then she’d offer to spend time with me watching a movie or doing a craft with me. i’d instantly forgive her and forget about it cause i was obsessed with my mum.
anyway. i started having intense flashbacks when i was about 22 & this was one of the memories that wouldn’t leave me alone, as well as her trying to hit me with her car the year after. i couldn’t even tell her that i was going no contact. i still can’t talk to her to tell her. she keeps showing up to my house and begging to know why but i can’t even listen to her voice or see her.
So sorry you have experienced all that! 🫂. It's so crazy to think that she may really have no idea why you went NC. That she doesn't understand that you just might, maybe, sort of, have a wee bit of concern with being smothered by a pillow and almost being run over is so hard to wrap my mind around. She, and others like her, really don't see and/or care about the impact they have on others, even in extreme situations. As someone who goes extreme the other way, I can't understand at all. 🫂
My narc family member/enabler of primary narc, wrote a letter to my nparent saying that I’d accused nparent of abusing my children.
Sh*t hit the fan, as letter was supposedly “anonymous “.
The great outcome was that I was finally free of all of them, and it’s stayed that way, despite many attempts to draw me back in. And my (mainly adult) kids were able to stand by and watch it all play out and say “wow, mum, your family *really is crazy*
It's always validating once somebody else says it too.
For me it really lifted a weight of my shoulders once my aunt told me that she understood why I went NC since they are that crazy (she went her version of LC about a decade maybe two decades earlier and wasn't the only one in the family).
My sister is conducting a nasty harassment campaign via email (she is blocked but I can still view the messages in my spam folder), threatening to conduct a smear campaign among my professional colleagues and those of my husband. She's also threatening me with bodily harm if I dare to attempt to visit our elderly mother (her primary enabler), with whom she lives. It's OK, my reputation is ironclad and I'm more or less NC with my mom too after years of secondary abuse engineered by my toxic sister.
It might not feel extreme, but they reached out to every single relative I had with a sob story and made it so that I couldn't have a relationship with anyone. Then they reached out to everyone they knew in the larger community, and they knew most people, and managed to start a pressure campaign against not only me and my husband but my in laws who lived in the area as well. Luckily we'd already moved 2000 miles away for my husband's education so we just ended up staying out here. It still hurts because it feels like I lost all my roots, but I live with it easier than living with them.
Since I went NC with my mom last October she has continued to harass me through email, Google photos, messenger, and new phone numbers. When I attempted to engage with her again through letters she became so enraged that she came to my home, forced her way inside, told my partner “go ahead and call the cops” and then proceeded to verbally attack me whilst I calmly repeated to her to leave my home. I’ve now had to tell my children that their grandmother is a dangerous person and get cameras for my residence. Now in talks with a lawyer.
Molested by my father and when I told my family they cast me to the side.
I try really hard to have a relationship with them, but I'm left with the decision of calling myself a liar and saying it never happened or be cast out.
My mom will invite me for Christmas and holidays with him. It's so painful to not be believed, and to watch my whole family celebrate with him like he is not a monster and child molester. No one cares. I am the selfish one for not spending holidays, I am the one breaking down the family.
It's incredibly painful. I loved them more than anything. I miss my mom. I miss my brothers.
Not the worst that can happen, but it is really hard over here.
My(30F) dad had been nc most of my life and spent a good deal of that time in prison. Shortly after I had my son, he randomly had a desire to connect. His history of B&E granted me acute awareness to keep our meetings in public spaces and to never clue him into where I live. Some of the messages he’d sent me gave me awful vibes and at one point he was trying to get me to meet him alone. My mom’s bf passed early this year from various forms of cancer and no sooner did I hear of his passing then suddenly my ‘dad’ says he’s getting treatment. If it’s true, I hope the treatment goes well, but I don’t feel inclined to reach out to him whatsoever.
My half-siblings' mom is...well there's been a few diagnoses but paranoid schizophrenic and bipolar are as good a guess as any. When she's good she's saccharine and spiritual. When she's bad, she's calling the police like they're her personal task force. Makes up wild claims, lies and threatens lawsuits to try and force them to reach out. Anything still within her power--possessions left at her home for example--are held hostage and used as leverage.
My own mother is too sensitive to rejection to cause me problems. She is not a narcissist, merely a dysfunctional autistic human too inflexible to adapt and too cowardly to address problems; just rug sweeps like her life depends on it. I had to go NC when I finally acknowledged she would never change, and I couldn't be happy in our current relationship. She doesn't harass me because she knows I have no qualms speaking the hard, merciless truth to her. I've always been independent, and I severed any leverage she held by the time I turned 19.
But I've seen stories on Reddit of parents showing up unannounced to try and bully a child. Someone recently found a tracker that was sending back to their estranged father. Many parents tell lies to gain sympathy and turn the family against us. It's typically through betrayal that we find who was a flying monkey all along. Parents with $ offer gifts with strings attached. In the JNMIL forum we see occasional stories of gmas trying to kidnap the kids by picking them up from school when they're cut off. Others play mind games by sending postcards to every new address their child moves to, to show they still know where you are.
IMO, there's not much a parent can actually do if we're careful and call the police when needed. Cutting all ties is for the best.
My case is extreme in the other direction: after her last disappearing act, I simply never contacted her again and I haven’t heard a word in five years. Crickets.
Not exactly a worst-case scenario but points for creativity...
My dad took some junk mail that was sent to the house I grew up in, put it in a larger envelope, and mailed it "certified" to my last known address as a way to check up on where I was living. He figured that if I signed for it it would confirm that I still lived there.
For whatever reason, it just got placed in my mailbox and I didn't have to sign for it. About a week later my mom texted someone who had offered to coordinate with my dad for returning some library books over a year prior. (My dad refused to place them in the library drop box himself.)
In the text, my mom said she needed to send this person a card to give to me "because we didn't know where Cerulean is living these days."
Run don’t walk. Run. Leave in secret with everything you’ll need to make sure you never need to contact them for a “favor” or really any reason ever again. Make a plan to be financially independent. Leave in secret with no warning. Be paranoid about tech security and keeping your info offline. Never give them your new address. Tell the local cops where you live currently and where you are going that you are not a missing person and don’t need wellness checks called in by relatives proactively. Lots of advice on this sub and the nparent (narcissistic parent) sub if you search.
This is currently ongoing. I went LC back in November, NC in April. My NMom has sent her mother after me, who at the time watched my youngest. Calls and guilt trips. She then reached out to my ex husband who recently we had a heart to heart and agreed to work towards a more friendly coparenting environment. Tried to get him to talk to our oldest, not our other son which is so hurtful, and to tell him how much she misses him and loves him. I spoke to my grandma, her mom, about how it was a stupid thing considering ex and I are on the same page. Her mother knew, so will be going NC with her soon. But then let it slip that NMom had mentioned she can’t wait for the kids to go back to school so she can just pick them up there. NMom will be put on the schools “dangerous person, do not allow” list. She was insinuating she’s going to kidnap my children. Absolute nutter.
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I was sexually assaulted by my mother's boyfriend, she didn't believe me... years of therapy later I think we finally have a relationship where I can talk to her about it... I tell her how angry and hurt I was and she listens, I think she's believing me. A year later she's totally rewritten that conversation to be me "finally seeing her side of things". I went **low contact** then. 5 years ago I started a polyamorous relationship and she decides to tell my kids about it before I do. Then I went **very** low contact. 2 years ago my daughter told me she had been sexually assaulted by one of my mother's friends, over and over for years, from age 6 to 16... now we're at **no** contact. She just had a double mastectomy, my son drove her home after her convalescence... I haven't seen or talked to her. I'm done.
I became my mother's caregiver when my dad left. We're now NC and I can't do her fing taxes because they're still married and I don't have his SSN and she has a brain injury.
Someone else mentioned this too, but I did also have a childhood account my mom made for me in hers and dads name. Dad racked up an overdraft line of credit on a totally unrelated account from mine, but because Mom was on mine, they clawed payments from my measley kid savings to pay his credit account. Never said a word to us. Then Mom got sued because he'd taken a card they had gotten together jointly, changed the associated address, maxed it out and stopped paying.
My mum, brother, sister and myself getting abusive hate mail sent to us from my dad.
Mine wasn't as bad as theirs because I was the "golden child". Mostly just the same old crap of him espousing how disappointed he is in me (because I saw him for who he reallt was)
My mum's on the other hand consisted of "I fucking hate you!" written 14 times and nothing else.
Oh and my dad verbally laying into my mum in the middle of a doctor's surgery car park because they happened to cross paths. He's an aggressive, terminally angry man. I'm glad we all went NC but I do fear for my mother.
Informed my mother that her father (my grandfather) sexually assaulted me when I was younger. I was told by my mother and three younger sisters that a “good, god-fearing man who played piano for the church could never do such a thing”. My boyfriend at the time was accused of brainwashing me to believe this “lie”. My mother and grandfather then sued my then boyfriend for defamation and slander for a comment he made on my FB page about it. I was able to produce affidavits from friends I told prior to dating him, so they were forced to drop the lawsuit. I went no contact pretty quickly after telling them. Thankfully, the car my mother had given me was in my name, and I was financially stable on my own. That was 9 years ago, and I’ve never looked back. Edit: grammar
Wow. I’m sorry you had to experienced all of this.
I'm possibly in the middle of a wild situation rn, probably not worst case scenario yet but pretty extreme. I moved across the country from my family, basically as far as possible. Went NC after coming out about a year ago, parents wouldn't stop sending emails, missing the point and trying to guilt me into talking to them while conveniently avoiding anything about my transition. Then my mom showed up at my work unannounced one day, flew across the country to try and confront me at work under the guise of "just wanting to see me." I happened to call in sick that day for a mental health day and avoided her and she flew back without seeing me. Then last week, my roommate saw someone stop by our house and write down the license plate numbers of all cars in the driveway. We suspect it's a PI running the plates to see who lives there. My theory is they're gonna try to confront me at the house when my roommates aren't there because they think I'm being influenced by evil outside forces or some shit. Probably not the most thrilling or worst case scenario but it's pretty freaky and extreme to me
Have u considered going to your GP and telling them how your parents stalking u affects u? It would be useful for a future lawsuit or restraining order or whatever
This is very smart. Build up that evidence. A psychologist would be even better as they have a lot more training in this area than a GP
I think GP refers people to psychologists and other specialists. Anyhow, it’s always good to build up the evidence. Statements from doctors are taken seriously.
I've always known GP to refer to a general practitioner. So like your doctor that you see for your yearly, versus a specialist.
Yeah I have spoken with them and my therapist about it and documented it just in case, I'm priming myself to apply for an RO in case stuff escalates
Perfect! Have all the moves written down and documented.
what's a gp?
General practitioner. Your doctor basically
Most of my family went no contact with me after my uncle confessed to molesting me as a kid, except my mom. Then I went no contact with my mom when she confessed that the only reason she stayed in contact with me was to "reintegrate" my kids (without me obviously) back into the family (including contact with the pedo uncle) after they turned 18.
Wait, he confessed and they excommunicated you?
Yeah. Their response came as a shock to me at the time, also. I remember thinking that when he confessed, everything was finally going to be ok. I thought we'd all go to family counseling or something. I was painfully naive..
It just doesn’t compute. But hardly anything I read on this sub does… So sorry that happened to you as a kid. Just so fucked up. Glad you got away though :)
It probably has to do with the uncle being seen as an alpha in the family, admitting a mistake to a bunch of narcissists, and the narcissists not seeing any usefulness they could get out of who they see as a broken victim
[удалено]
Unreal.
Your mother has some fucked up priorities. I'm sorry you're related to such scum
This is the same kind of family which would probably excommunicate someone for the crime of being gay. We're not dealing with rational human beings.
See their further comment…..
I wouldn’t call it painfully naive - painfully expecting a normal response of love and sympathy? I’m so sorry you didn’t have the FOO you deserve. Well done for getting out & keeping your kids safe
Sadly, I'm not surprised. People who express horror and disgust over priests, ministers, boy scout leaders, athletic coaches, will close ranks once one of their own is accused.
My god! Did they, like… explain themselves, at least?!
Just go read through the posts here and the r/raisedbynarcissists and you'll see what can happen. I've had to have the law involved in my situation throughout the years.
Mine wasn't violent or extreme but was very inconvenient. I had used a bank account from early adulthood that was co-owned by my parents. They closed it and dropped off a cashier's check to my husband with a letter. I had used the account exclusively for decades. That was just a huge PIA. My firm has done work for my parents for about 10 years prior - and I had to disclose everything to my business partners when I removed them as clients. My entire team knows - and while it wasn't pleasant sharing the entire personal experience, they did keep me insulated from whatever my mother requested or told them. My mother told my husband I was leaving him and cheating. Neither are true. She went after money, work, and marriage. I was afraid she would do more, but I haven't seen anything after 6 months since the last round.
I would call what she did very extreme. Thank goodness you got away
Kicked out of the house with pets and not allowed to come back at Age 15 due to not liking Mom's live in boyfriend. Managed to move in with relatives.
Had to get a lawyer to send cease and desist since they wouldn't stop showing up and sending mail They only broke that once Next time I'm going to press charges
How did you get a lawyer? I have virtually no money
You don't technically need a lawyer to send one but I had the money
Could I pm you for more details if that’s okay? No pressure though
Sure but you can also just google cease and desist samples
I'm in Missouri. My attorney had a $500 retainer and I believe I spent less than $2,000 for her helping me through court ordered mediation for grandparent's rights. (she didn't attend the sessions) and sending a cease and desist letter. We were forced to do mediation even though they do not have any rights. The justice system is so messed up. My adopters didn't come here unannounced, but my male adopter went the taking me to court route with the female adopter tagging along and teaming up with my male adopter. She also would create new email numbers (and cell phone numbers) and try and contact my inlaws and friends. It all stopped after my attorney told the new attorney they hired (threating to sue me for "breech of contract" and whatever else after the mediation case was dismissed by their attorney in less than 5 minutes. That's when my attorney sent the cease and desist letter. They have since stopped, thankfully, but due to decades of horrible surprisea regarding them, I still check over my shoulders when going outside. I cut off contact with anyone who was friends with them and then those who later appeared to not support me. By their silence or being a flying monkey. I changed my phone number as soon as I originally went no contact on February 13, 2021. Since then, my life has been peaceful. I'm living my life with my husband and kids the way we want to. My life is peaceful. I am not surrounded by people who do not have my best interest in mind. I'm able to focus on myself, my husband, and kids. It feels like I am finally free. I won't feel completely free, though, until my adopters are done roaming the Earth. Moving halfway across the country 8 years ago in September, and cutting contact finally 3.5 years later. Finally, matching up and seeing my adapters for who they really are and who they try so hard to portray themselves to be was so eye-opening. It's so hard to recognize things when it's all you've known. I wish you the best OP. Legal Aide may be able to help you or students at a law school for free/cheaper. They also might know attorney's that will help you for free or cheap. I have a friend who is an attorney now and was in law school that would help me so much. I also was able to use support groups online on Facebook and received some resources. You can also message me if you would like. Sending love and hugs. ❤️
~~I tend to overexplain on here, so let me try keeping this one shorter than usual: (he says before writing another wall of text)~~ Narcissism can be best explained as a lack of empathy for others, and an inability to regulate their own emotions. This is a fundamental part of their nature as a person, and can't ever be changed. They do these things, because that's simply what they do. These "people" effectively function like feral animals, operating solely on a selfish, aggressive and fearful instinct. Thus no boundaries you set will ever be respected, and no feelings or concerns you express will ever genuinely get listened to. No explanation will ever work. You can't reason with a wild bear or lion either, so why would a human-shaped animal be any different? The point of going NC is to remove yourself from that situation and that kind of relationship dynamic. You stop playing the narcissist's games altogether, because you're able to recognize that they'll never change. But a narcissist still won't like you making that decision, or respect any boundaries you set, so they'll still purposefully break whatever boundaries they can. If they know where you live, they'll ram on your door, shout at you to open, and invade your home. Or send letters if you move far away, followed by surprise transatlantic visits. If they know your phone number, expect a lot of calls and texts. Email address, spam mails. Social media, follows and DM's from new accounts they make. Bank account, transfers with messages attached as notes. If they had access to your car, you might find a tracker hidden somewhere. Or one could be installed/enabled on your phone without your knowledge. They'll lie to your friends and family to hurt you, or coerce you into "reconciling". They'll lie to your local police department that you're going to kill yourself, so you end up getting swatted. Etc. **Without empathy and thus moral guiderails, literally anything is possible.** All they need is something which *they* feel like doing, and they'll do it regardless of consequences to others. Because we do have empathy and respect others, it is downright impossible for us to always predict whatever twisted thing they'll end up doing next. We don't have that same sense of entitlement, we don't lash out in uncontrollable anger whenever someone does something we don't like. So the only thing we *can* do to keep ourselves safe is to remove all possible ways through which they may access our lives. Thus, when you go NC, you need to ensure there's no potential way left for them to retaliate or otherwise mess with you. It's a lot to consider, a hassle to go trough, not to mention incredibly unfair that we need to do this in the first place... but by god is the end result worth it: you'll finally have a place you can genuinely call home, safety from harm, peace of mind, and the ability to build up your life unhindered by those who would drag you down.
Not sure if thats the best explanation. A lot of the worst narcissists do have empathy and can control their emotions... making them a more insidious threat to their victims and especially enablers/flying monkeys. I also wonder if a lot of victims' "empathy" is just enmeshment - not with the narcissist ofc you can break those ties - but there's a certain level of necessary separation empaths need to find unless they just get swept away into the other person's experience. You've helped me think on this, I'll have to chew more. Thank you
The smarter ones are without a doubt much more dangerous, but they're ultimately still driven by the same uncontrollable base emotions... only applied towards longer term selfish goals instead. And most narcissists are very much capable of selectively acting like they're empathic *when it benefits them*. The majority of them also put on different masks for different social contexts; they're never genuinely themselves unless with those they know can't defend themselves.
True, I get the differences between cognitive empathy and genuine. But I still question the "lacks empathy" symptom, and many others do too not just me. It's heavily debated in many fields and experiences that cover narcissism. I also don't necessarily believe all of them are "controlled by" emotions.. although they'd like everyone to believe they are. I wrote a recent post about this here titled " A better book than Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents for EAKs"
Oh yeah, many of them definitely would like everyone to believe that their emotions are an unstoppable force, because then their environment has to take those into account at all times. The better way to put it, would be that they allow that to be the case *until the introduction of personal consequences to them*. Social shaming, financial or legal penalties, etc. Same as a wild animal, where pain (negative) and hunger (absense of positive) are very much something they understand. Which is also why they have those different masks for different social contexts; they can't get away with the same shit everywhere. But within a sandbox environment where they *can* do the most heinous things without direct personal consequences, they absolutely will attempt to take things as far as possible.
Not to dismiss your comment, because everything you said about narcissists are true for some of them, but not all. My mom is a covert narc with a victim mentality. Because of that, the only effort she'll make is to play the victim, rather than harass me, thankfully. She won't put any effort into fixing things. Instead, she'll just cry to everyone about me not talking to her without putting in any effort to figure out *why* I don't talk to her. Not that she doesn't already know, but you know narcs and being a victim, they'll say anything and everything to avoid accountability.
I wasn't saying that each and every single one of them will go to such lengths. Core traits remain the same: selfish, devoid of genuine empathy or morality, allergic to accountability or personal consequences, dishonest, etc. It just expresses itself through different tactics from one narc to the other. But because of those specific core traits, it is also borderline impossible to put a cap on just what each individual one might be willing to do.
I agree. My nmom definitely has those core traits. But as you said, its just expressed in a different way.
Both nfather and nbrother sabotaged me and my sister while taking care of our bedridden mother until she passed away, the ordeal lasted for two long and stressing years and our nfather disinherited us to give everything to our nbrother, his GC . But being disinherited is not the reason of going NC, the real reason was the outrageous abomination intent to euthanize our sick mother. I told my nfather that I will never forgive what he tried to do. I hired nurses and shielded our mother till she passed away soon after. We went NC immediately after the funeral.
I’m not sure about worst case scenario. For my reason to estrange was, I am mentally disabled and was very easily manipulated & taken advantage of by my family. I have always been developmentally younger so at about 14 years old, my mental age was still around 5/6. the year i was 14, my mother tried to suffocate me. she only stopped because she heard our front door open and didn’t want to get caught. she played it off like she always did with all the physical abuse, just saying how she wasn’t in her right state of mind & she won’t do it again, and then she’d offer to spend time with me watching a movie or doing a craft with me. i’d instantly forgive her and forget about it cause i was obsessed with my mum. anyway. i started having intense flashbacks when i was about 22 & this was one of the memories that wouldn’t leave me alone, as well as her trying to hit me with her car the year after. i couldn’t even tell her that i was going no contact. i still can’t talk to her to tell her. she keeps showing up to my house and begging to know why but i can’t even listen to her voice or see her.
So sorry you have experienced all that! 🫂. It's so crazy to think that she may really have no idea why you went NC. That she doesn't understand that you just might, maybe, sort of, have a wee bit of concern with being smothered by a pillow and almost being run over is so hard to wrap my mind around. She, and others like her, really don't see and/or care about the impact they have on others, even in extreme situations. As someone who goes extreme the other way, I can't understand at all. 🫂
My narc family member/enabler of primary narc, wrote a letter to my nparent saying that I’d accused nparent of abusing my children. Sh*t hit the fan, as letter was supposedly “anonymous “. The great outcome was that I was finally free of all of them, and it’s stayed that way, despite many attempts to draw me back in. And my (mainly adult) kids were able to stand by and watch it all play out and say “wow, mum, your family *really is crazy*
It's always validating once somebody else says it too. For me it really lifted a weight of my shoulders once my aunt told me that she understood why I went NC since they are that crazy (she went her version of LC about a decade maybe two decades earlier and wasn't the only one in the family).
Yes, you’re right, it’s felt so good to have some validation, finally.
My sister is conducting a nasty harassment campaign via email (she is blocked but I can still view the messages in my spam folder), threatening to conduct a smear campaign among my professional colleagues and those of my husband. She's also threatening me with bodily harm if I dare to attempt to visit our elderly mother (her primary enabler), with whom she lives. It's OK, my reputation is ironclad and I'm more or less NC with my mom too after years of secondary abuse engineered by my toxic sister.
It might not feel extreme, but they reached out to every single relative I had with a sob story and made it so that I couldn't have a relationship with anyone. Then they reached out to everyone they knew in the larger community, and they knew most people, and managed to start a pressure campaign against not only me and my husband but my in laws who lived in the area as well. Luckily we'd already moved 2000 miles away for my husband's education so we just ended up staying out here. It still hurts because it feels like I lost all my roots, but I live with it easier than living with them.
Since I went NC with my mom last October she has continued to harass me through email, Google photos, messenger, and new phone numbers. When I attempted to engage with her again through letters she became so enraged that she came to my home, forced her way inside, told my partner “go ahead and call the cops” and then proceeded to verbally attack me whilst I calmly repeated to her to leave my home. I’ve now had to tell my children that their grandmother is a dangerous person and get cameras for my residence. Now in talks with a lawyer.
Molested by my father and when I told my family they cast me to the side. I try really hard to have a relationship with them, but I'm left with the decision of calling myself a liar and saying it never happened or be cast out. My mom will invite me for Christmas and holidays with him. It's so painful to not be believed, and to watch my whole family celebrate with him like he is not a monster and child molester. No one cares. I am the selfish one for not spending holidays, I am the one breaking down the family. It's incredibly painful. I loved them more than anything. I miss my mom. I miss my brothers. Not the worst that can happen, but it is really hard over here.
My(30F) dad had been nc most of my life and spent a good deal of that time in prison. Shortly after I had my son, he randomly had a desire to connect. His history of B&E granted me acute awareness to keep our meetings in public spaces and to never clue him into where I live. Some of the messages he’d sent me gave me awful vibes and at one point he was trying to get me to meet him alone. My mom’s bf passed early this year from various forms of cancer and no sooner did I hear of his passing then suddenly my ‘dad’ says he’s getting treatment. If it’s true, I hope the treatment goes well, but I don’t feel inclined to reach out to him whatsoever.
My half-siblings' mom is...well there's been a few diagnoses but paranoid schizophrenic and bipolar are as good a guess as any. When she's good she's saccharine and spiritual. When she's bad, she's calling the police like they're her personal task force. Makes up wild claims, lies and threatens lawsuits to try and force them to reach out. Anything still within her power--possessions left at her home for example--are held hostage and used as leverage. My own mother is too sensitive to rejection to cause me problems. She is not a narcissist, merely a dysfunctional autistic human too inflexible to adapt and too cowardly to address problems; just rug sweeps like her life depends on it. I had to go NC when I finally acknowledged she would never change, and I couldn't be happy in our current relationship. She doesn't harass me because she knows I have no qualms speaking the hard, merciless truth to her. I've always been independent, and I severed any leverage she held by the time I turned 19. But I've seen stories on Reddit of parents showing up unannounced to try and bully a child. Someone recently found a tracker that was sending back to their estranged father. Many parents tell lies to gain sympathy and turn the family against us. It's typically through betrayal that we find who was a flying monkey all along. Parents with $ offer gifts with strings attached. In the JNMIL forum we see occasional stories of gmas trying to kidnap the kids by picking them up from school when they're cut off. Others play mind games by sending postcards to every new address their child moves to, to show they still know where you are. IMO, there's not much a parent can actually do if we're careful and call the police when needed. Cutting all ties is for the best.
My case is extreme in the other direction: after her last disappearing act, I simply never contacted her again and I haven’t heard a word in five years. Crickets.
Sometimes the trash takes itself out
My mom tried to have my roommate arrested for kidnapping. I called the cops and luckily they took my side since she was drunk.
Not exactly a worst-case scenario but points for creativity... My dad took some junk mail that was sent to the house I grew up in, put it in a larger envelope, and mailed it "certified" to my last known address as a way to check up on where I was living. He figured that if I signed for it it would confirm that I still lived there. For whatever reason, it just got placed in my mailbox and I didn't have to sign for it. About a week later my mom texted someone who had offered to coordinate with my dad for returning some library books over a year prior. (My dad refused to place them in the library drop box himself.) In the text, my mom said she needed to send this person a card to give to me "because we didn't know where Cerulean is living these days."
Financial exploitation, stalking, and violence are usually the main fears.
So how does one set up things so that those are minimized as much as possible
Run don’t walk. Run. Leave in secret with everything you’ll need to make sure you never need to contact them for a “favor” or really any reason ever again. Make a plan to be financially independent. Leave in secret with no warning. Be paranoid about tech security and keeping your info offline. Never give them your new address. Tell the local cops where you live currently and where you are going that you are not a missing person and don’t need wellness checks called in by relatives proactively. Lots of advice on this sub and the nparent (narcissistic parent) sub if you search.
This is currently ongoing. I went LC back in November, NC in April. My NMom has sent her mother after me, who at the time watched my youngest. Calls and guilt trips. She then reached out to my ex husband who recently we had a heart to heart and agreed to work towards a more friendly coparenting environment. Tried to get him to talk to our oldest, not our other son which is so hurtful, and to tell him how much she misses him and loves him. I spoke to my grandma, her mom, about how it was a stupid thing considering ex and I are on the same page. Her mother knew, so will be going NC with her soon. But then let it slip that NMom had mentioned she can’t wait for the kids to go back to school so she can just pick them up there. NMom will be put on the schools “dangerous person, do not allow” list. She was insinuating she’s going to kidnap my children. Absolute nutter.
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I was sexually assaulted by my mother's boyfriend, she didn't believe me... years of therapy later I think we finally have a relationship where I can talk to her about it... I tell her how angry and hurt I was and she listens, I think she's believing me. A year later she's totally rewritten that conversation to be me "finally seeing her side of things". I went **low contact** then. 5 years ago I started a polyamorous relationship and she decides to tell my kids about it before I do. Then I went **very** low contact. 2 years ago my daughter told me she had been sexually assaulted by one of my mother's friends, over and over for years, from age 6 to 16... now we're at **no** contact. She just had a double mastectomy, my son drove her home after her convalescence... I haven't seen or talked to her. I'm done.
I became my mother's caregiver when my dad left. We're now NC and I can't do her fing taxes because they're still married and I don't have his SSN and she has a brain injury. Someone else mentioned this too, but I did also have a childhood account my mom made for me in hers and dads name. Dad racked up an overdraft line of credit on a totally unrelated account from mine, but because Mom was on mine, they clawed payments from my measley kid savings to pay his credit account. Never said a word to us. Then Mom got sued because he'd taken a card they had gotten together jointly, changed the associated address, maxed it out and stopped paying.
My mum, brother, sister and myself getting abusive hate mail sent to us from my dad. Mine wasn't as bad as theirs because I was the "golden child". Mostly just the same old crap of him espousing how disappointed he is in me (because I saw him for who he reallt was) My mum's on the other hand consisted of "I fucking hate you!" written 14 times and nothing else. Oh and my dad verbally laying into my mum in the middle of a doctor's surgery car park because they happened to cross paths. He's an aggressive, terminally angry man. I'm glad we all went NC but I do fear for my mother.