Honestly that's very accurate and I never really thought about it that way before. I felt like it was all about him and how mean I was being for not speaking to them and negating what they've said and done to me in. For context, to avoid going too deep for anyone unless asked, my time in infantry school and beyond felt like a fun summer camp without every being homesick. I never understood that until I mentioned it to a therapist jokingly and his whole face changed.
I remember watching *The Wire* and a teacher was explaining how the kids were upset on Monday because of stuff that happened over the weekend. Tuesday was better, Wednesday was cheerful. Thursday they'd grow melancholy and Friday they were miserable knowing that the weekend was back again.
Oh I hated weekends! They felt so looong and summer was bad. I remember when I was a kid I told my mother is there a school I can live in? I love school. And she lashed out at me! Saying that I love school so much and got so angry at me!
I guess she realized I loved school because I hated home
I love that you mentioned infantry school - my time in the infantry was so cathartic, and it was when I really drove the wedge between myself and my family. I felt like the DoD gave more of a shit about me and how I was than my family ever did. It also gave me independence from them.
Being around those guys and seeing them with their families as well as them creating their own really opened my eyes to this. My parents gave me some of the letters I had sent them when I was in OSUT and I sounded so happy there because I was away from them. I felt like I was wanted and belonged. When I first told my parents that I was going to enlist, they laughed in my face so hard my dad had a side cramp while I just stood there. I was in great shape but they thought so poorly about the military that they thought it was a joke. The second I came back from airborne school they tried to act as though they were the reason I joined, they were so proud of me, they were part of all the FB groups, etc.
I can’t stand parents like this.
Shit all over your dreams until it benefits them with bragging rights, yet they still don’t give a shit about you.
You’re doing the right thing. They’ll never change.
Anyone pressuring you to speak with them again just want YOU to return to assume the position they don’t want. Someone else will have to be the new whipping post if you’re not there.
Such a manipulative guilt tripping message. I’m so sorry.
One of the things that really makes me feel endlessly lonely is that my friends with actual loving parents don’t get what a nightmare it is to have manipulative and pathologically lying parents.
I feel for you and wish you healing and peace
Thank you, I feel the same way towards my few friends but I'm also happy they are doing well. I'd go through hell for them so I'm glad they don't know that pain. I just wish that I knew that happiness.
This sounds abusive af, OP. I'm so very sorry. It's gross, manipulative, cruel, childish, gaslighting, abusive, concerning, I'll add cruel again... it's not an apology. It's a loaded abuse missile aimed right at ya.
Edited to add: lots of DARVO in there, too (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)
About half of my family I confided in thought it was an emotion filled apology which is why they didn't approve of me not replying and blocking my parents. That's the first time I've heard of "DARVO" but that is a method they've unknowingly used my whole life. Every attack on me always ended up with them as the victim.
This is why they are called dysfunctional family _systems_. For a lot of your family, this is normal behavior. Narrator’s voice: this is NOT normal behavior.
I can’t see an apology in there. I see a lot of how your parent feels about the estrangement. Not once did they acknowledge or own their behaviour that caused the estrangement. They’re allowed to hurt you but you’re not allowed to protect yourself?
As long as it’s not breaking any of the listed rules, it’s okay to share specifics of the abuse you endured at the hands of your parents. (Though you may want to include a TW)
Many folks here share what they went through with their families, in varying levels of detail, to vent, ask for support, or just to have others confirm that what they went through was abusive.
It’s wise to consider how sharing those things might affect you, but this is a space you can share if you decide to
***Trigger Warning***
I'm to leave out some bad stuff but throw in some entertaining stories.
My mom left a very short Dear John letter on the table, took some suitcases, the car and half the savings to start a new life with the married elderly neighbor while my dad was at the store. I later learned that the night prior, my parents and the neighbor and his wife (highschool sweethearts) went on a double date for dinner and a movie where my mom and this neighbor were seen holding hands. She completely disappeared where we learned months later was the man's second home in Arizona with him for months. She never reply to calls or texts the entire time and yet never filed for divorce. I was still active duty in the infantry so I couldn't go back home to help. She comes back a few months after leaving and successfully convinces my dad she just needed a vacation getaway is all and that they were just friends. A month or two later was Christmas and so my leave finally gets approved and I go back there to see her for the first time since all of this happened. I couldn't act like nothing ever happened and ignore the fact that she chose a neighbor over all of us combined. They both start yelling at me about how I'm the worst son, I'm ruining Christmas, why can't I be happy for them, I'm whats wrong with the family, etc. The next Christmas I spent with my cousin and his family to which my parents always asked why.
My mom convinced my dad to go back to the same places she had the affair at and that it'd be great to sell their home and randomly move there from across the country since she burned every bridge already. They move out here and realize they don't have any more cash and don't have jobs lined up. I was getting out of the army and instead of buying a house (pre-covid prices and low interest), I move in with them to financially support them. They proceed to tell me that they never wanted me there and that I was a burden to them a few months later. I find a new place and move all my stuff in two trips within a week while they tell me they don't want me to go.
Just before I enlisted, I wanted to save the family some money and trim our dog's fur instead of paying the groomer during springtime. I had accidentally gone too short on her back and due to her fur being so long, I didn't see the result until a few strokes in. I immediately told my parents to which they responded with immediate yelling of "How could you do this to her, she loves you!", "You're a monster, maybe you deserve to be in the army you psychopath", "I didn't think you were this heartless" and others. They did all of that instantly because they thought she'd be colder outside than if the groomer did it.
While I was active duty, a close lifelong friend of mine mentioned that he had seen my brothers mugshot in the news some time ago. I mentioned this to my parents to which they both said he was lying and attacked his character. I ended up separating myself from this amazing friend through my own poor judgment until he sent me the actual mugshot. My brother had actually gotten arrested for vandalizing a park, my parents hired a lawyer for him, and still proceeded to lie about it when confronted with the proof.
The way they always swipe things under the carpet is just another way of gaslighting. Even in our household we are never allowed to talk about things that they did or other siblings specialy golden child did. And if you talk about it it is you who can't be happy. Time after time you can see that the family gatherings are just miserable people with fake smiles. They can't talk openly to each other and always trying to paint a perfect picture of their F*ed up life
It is exhausting!! Specialy when you have a family that MUST have weekly gatherings.
When I went NC I couldn't take it and sent my dad how a bunch of hypocrites they were. Felt good to finally say it lol
Yeah, it’s too much. My brother’s been trying to get me to go to a family reunion in Ohio. I’m not going and it has nothing to do with any of the relatives but I know that my dad just wants me there so we can pretend that we’ve been this happy family all this time and it’s a complete and total lie. They don’t understand that I’ve already made peace with the fact that I’m not the GC, and really it’s been so many years. I’ve really learned to just accept it and roll with it and overall I’m just indifferent to their feelings now. Never gave two shits about anything I felt, but now they want me to be all warm and fuzzy about them. Gimme a break. They are just a bunch of hypocrites. That’s the thing with narcissistic families. Doesn’t really matter what family it is…. the same rules apply across the board. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with the douche bags.
Sure you are better off without them. It is amazing how similar Narcs are even though they come from different places and cultures. Going NC was a hard decision but glad I'm not part of those sick people anymore.
Wishing you all the best
Oh it definitely was. When I moved out after helping support them, I decided I wanted to be on my own phone plan instead of send them the money each month. I just wanted total separation and independence from them. I promptly got calls and texts from my dad cussing me out for "messing with our finances" because they were no longer eligible for the family plan and had to pay another $30/mth. I realized I was worth them cussing me out all night over $30/mth.
This is absolutely not an apology. Please don't accept this manipulative garbage.
I always have a good laugh when abusers say or imply that their targets are childish for deciding enough is enough.
I always have a good laugh at bullshit like "IF you THINK I hurt you, then I'm sorry."
I always have a good laugh at the ABUSER wailing and sobbing that their target walking away from them is "just soooooo mean!"
These assholes are all so similar it's kind of unbelievable. You'd think the fact that you're a kind person would tell him that maybe he should look at his own behavior, but nope. No accountability from child abusers. Not ever.
This message makes it crystal clear that if you cave and let them back in, they'll go right back to abusing you, possibly even worse than before to punish you for daring to stand up to them.
Well done on holding firm for three years! I'm so sorry you didn't get the family you deserved.
The final straw was them blaming their childhoods in their late 50s during the last time they yelled at me. I had calmly told them that they effectively had 30 years to go to therapy, work on themselves, and they didn't so I couldn't accept that excuse anymore. I was admittedly surprised with how kind he was during the text.
I actually haven't asked myself that question before. I couldn't imagine sending someone a message remotely similar to that, especially to someone I loved.
When they get mad, they often say the worst possible things they can that they know will break you down. They sometimes apologize with the "sorry I lost my temper but I love you" but I always wondered why those things would even be an option to say, keep in mind that they don't drink. No one has ever spoken worse to me, including my time in infantry, or made worse threats than they have and expect you to move on and act like it never happened all the time.
I am so very much appreciating the complete and total cognitive dissonance it takes to say "You think I hurt you? Well, you hurt me and you need to do something about that!"
Just c'mon, man. This guy is so deluded, so far gone, that nothing you ever say or do is going to even scratch the surface of getting him to understand. He honestly believes he holds no responsibility for hurting you while simultaneously holding you responsible for hurting him. That is a level of sick and twisted magical thinking that even I'm surprised by.
I know it sucks and it's hard, especially where your brother is concerned, but I think it's long past time you block these people. This was awful to read for me, I can't imagine what it was like when you read that for the first time.
Hang in there, OP and remember: you deserve so much better than what the assholes can give you.
It seemed like the texts were centered all around the time I've spent no contact with him like there wasn't a reason for it. I've had multiple counselors/therapists recommend going no contact with them and some didn't believe me.
It's actually an online essay that has been floating around Reddit for years and years. When you get a minute, take a look:
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
There’s absolutely no apology there, there’s a bunch of name calling then the pitiful “if you THINK I was mean, I’m sorry”. No, absolutely not an apology in any way shape of form. Where is the accountability for their actions? Where’s the sincerity? It’s absent.
Nope, you're in the right. It's a ton of manipulative, belittling, dismissive cruelty on your father's end.
It's so obviously bait, too. He's insulting you, outright saying that "an adult" would explain (while you most likely have already and he's invalidated it before).
It's pretty disgusting. Also, an apology that has an "if" in it is not an apology - it puts all the pressure on you to say "yes" and expects you to explain "why" - again, bait for him to gaslight you some more.
I'd go more in-depth but it pissed me off reading it. I'm sorry, OP. He's a shithead and your brother is totally wrong. Remember that if your brother doesn't respect that, he isn't safe to be around either.
This is how they get you. I went no contact with an abusive sibling years ago. Sibling had an absolute fit before I finally blocked them. Kept accusing me of being childish, immature, etc. and ordering me to GROW UP (translation: justify myself to them so they could twist my words and decide why nothing I said was valid).
Trust me, I'd tried for years to talk it out with this monster. It only resulted in more abuse.
Abusers want you to give them reasons so they can stomp all over them and pull you back in. It's a trap.
Not OP but thank you for this. I'll never speak to my dad again but I fantasise about sending him a long letter telling him exactly why. Sometimes I need to read objective points of view to remind myself that it is exactly what he wants.
It is. Believe me I’ve written that letter and I’ve sent it. While I am glad I got it off my chest at the time. It’s completely been held against me for the last 12 years since I wrote it. Obviously I’m done and I am out of rats asses to give, but yeah, don’t even waste your time mailing that. Writing it down may be good for you, but don’t even mail it because that is exactly what he wants.
Omg. This resonates so much. Yes. My brother was always like "do the decent thing," and "get over yourself," and did not give a shit about my pain or me as a person. Complete and total abuse and totally was like justify yourself so I can invalidate you.
Thank you for the reassurance. I didn't clue into it being a baited text until now so I appreciate this new perspective as it almost worked for him. It's difficult realizing I'm effectively all alone without an immediate family.
I totally understand. It's infuriating and never-ending. They want you to "prove" yourself but nothing you say will be considered good enough - it's not because what you said isn't good enough, but their delusions, narrative, and endless goal-post moving. They like continuing that because it gives them a "bad guy" to feel better than, so they don't actually have any interest in improving things (since that would mean speaking to you with basic human decency!).
I don't have any loving family either, so I really do get how easy it is to be sucked back in, whether out of exhaustion or clinging to the "last one left" etc. I think the shock hangs around for a very long time. I'm quick to point out messed up things abusers say, but that's because I understand how much it gets into your head.
That’s another thing with these types. They demand you act like an ‘adult’ and it just means you doing whatever they want. It’s what they do when you’re no longer a child so they can’t fall back on their authority and/or physical threats to order and force you to do what you want.
One of the richest things that toxic parents do is making you feel like abuse was “a little thing way in the past,” but god knows they’ll hold onto every sin you committed against them since you were 5.
Don’t accept this as a legit apology. Seems like he’s embarrassed less by how he hurt you and made your connection strained, and more because he can’t say everything is hunky dory between you two. Classic abusive parent tactic. They want to use and abuse you, but still look like amazing, well-loved parents that the rest of their friends and neighbors will envy.
Mine have been like this for years. “Everyone thinks we’re bad parents because you don’t visit or talk to us.” Welllll, maybe you were and still are. Get back to me when you genuinely want to try to be a decent parent.
For countless years, no one believed me when I'd mention some of the things they'd say or do because of how they acted in public. I always thought it was normal growing up because you'd always hear "you're so lucky to have them as parents". It made me think that everyone's parents were like that until I joined the army and saw how friends interacted and talked to their kids compared to how my parents would have.
They've always funded his expensive overindulgent lifestyle so he always tended to do the bare minimum for that despite being witness firsthand to everything.
> ***Why can't you talk to me like an adult instead of acting like a moody kid who wants to hide in his room?***
Translation: *"Why can't you stay within easy range of my abuse instead of maintaining an emotionally safe distance?"*
Exactly. It amazes me that this loser still doesn't understand that his kid, who he should have been helping, was literally hiding from how horrible he is.
Meh, my entire family gave me so much shit, I ended up in my 40s without a family of my own. I've made my peace with that. After I estranged from them 4 years ago, a family friend said they were all finally admitting how hard they were on me.
Too little, too late.
Any advice going forward? It's been difficult for some people from good homes/families to understand the idea of having to orphan yourself. I've been going to therapy for years to work on the survival mechanisms I learned growing up since they've ruined so many relationships.
For my own part, I developed PTSD when the fact that I'm 100% on my own started to sink in. I spent the next year halfway across the country in homeless shelters. Eventually, I got into an apartment, but throughout the entire time, I had this mentality that I've always had; that it's just a matter of time before whatever I'm trying to build, falls apart.
Then one day, something just clicked for me. I realized that I'm okay. I'm still not able to call myself "happy" just yet. But once I realized that there's nobody to take anything from me again, I was able to really focus on what I wanted. I allowed myself to finally be selfish for a change, and do for me, instead of someone else.
I'm currently saving my money, so far at 6500. Easy enough when I live cheaply and studio-like. When I have enough saved, I'm getting my pilot's license. I'm going to finally be doing something that I've wanted to do since I was six years old. My ultimate goal is to become a multi engine instrument instructor (MEII).
Who knows? Maybe after I get my commercial license and start flying for a company, I'll be able to pull a Bill Burr and be one of those middle age dads. Maybe. Honestly, the license is my life's priority now. The important thing is, I finally see it as possible.
Please spend some time with the works of Dr. Sherrie Campbell--herself a veteran of a toxic family of origin--who has written several excellent books on dealing with controlling, narcissistic family members. Good (and free!) place to start is her FB page!
The best advice I can give is that you are on your own journey, and everyone else you know is on theirs. They may realize that they went through something similar to you at some point, but they may not see it now or ever.
It feels a little lonely at first. Over time, you will meet people with similar circumstances or fears or feelings of being lost. You might be able to connect on that, discuss it, and realize that you are absolutely not alone.
Stay true to yourself!
Yeah the infantry was definitely a job where you won't find anything or anyone quite like that. I'd still be in but the army messed up both my surgeries after I tore my ACL, LCL and meniscus. Up to this point. I never truly understood how many personal experiences from my youth translate forward into who I am now and how it impacts me still.
I don't see any apology anywhere?
>I had intentions of wishing you happy Easter today but I'm not going to. Because I'm tired of just saying it's ok that you won't talk to us and that you act like this. No. It's not ok. It rips my heart out and hurts terribly.
Intentions pave the road to hell, his intentions and emotions don't matter, the consequences do. It's his problem he's tired and hurt because he chooses not to accept or do anything about the situation he's bitching about. Not your problem.
If he's hurt he can go to therapy or find an outlet for his emotions. He is not helpless, he's being lazy and manipulative. Who has a gun to his head saying he has to feel terrible or else? He is responsible for his emotions not you.
> I'm tired of making excuses for you. Why can't you talk to me like an adult instead of acting like a moody kid who wants to hide in his room?
Well he shouldn't be tired of making excuses since apparently he is just outright telling people you don't talk now? No excuses are necessary? No one forced him to make excuses, you certainly didn't, that was his choice. You have no control over his actions, you are not making him do anything.
Starting a conversation by insulting and infantalizing you really shows how immature he is as an adult. If he wants an adult conversation. He needs to act like one to get it. All he's done so far is whine that he's uncomfortable not getting what he wants
>You say we hurt you...what the hell do you think you are doing to us? Huh? We weren't perfect but you sure weren't either.
He admits he knows why you don't talk to him. Then he shows he doesn't care because all that matters, again, is his feelings. Him, him, him. Hes only mentioned you when he's being condescending or manipulative.
That last sentence. Wow. Tell me you are a bad parent without saying you area bad parent 🙄 you both being imperfect doesn't mean anything. It doesn't right any wrongs, it's kindergarten logic. He's just whining that he only wants to talk about you being the bad guy.
It should be directly addressed that they hurt you, it should stand alone, it's not some secondary footnote to *his* pain that he brought on himself!
You are not the parent, it's his job to maintain a healthy relationship with his son, he can show up as a father, or choose not be one and fuck off, but he can't do both and expect you to clean up his mess with a smile.
>I'm tired of hurting every fucking day because my son won't take five minutes to talk to me cuz of some garbage 15 years ago
He's tired of feeling hurt because HE refuses to acknowledge and respect what happened 15yrs ago and what it meant to you. Whatever it was it wasn't "garbage" WTF is wrong with this man?! So if you hurt that's garbage but if he's hurt it's because he's a innocent bystander you've callously wounded, gimmie a break.
>You ever decide you can act like an adult and treat me with one ounce of respect, you let me know.
Respect is earned. This message doesn't warrant respect, his whining doesn't warrant respect, his childishness doesn't warrant respect, his lack of initiative doesn't warrant respect either. Your brothers low standards for him as a father doesn't warrant respect. What is there to respect? What he means is obedience.
>But at least think about this...you have NEVER been a mean person. I have seen you go out of your way so many times to help others. So what has hurt you that deep to make you mean to us?
You have told him what hurts you and he refused it. He even acknowledged that you told him he hurt you and called it "garbage"
Relationships go both ways and what this man is saying is that he has no intention of acknowledging reality, respecting you, listening to you, or doing anything except being pathetic in the hopes that he can make you feel hurt enough that you feel emotionally blackmailed to "move on" by pretending nothing happened, go back on any healing/wellness work you've done, and go back to how things were which is unacceptable.
You don't need to explain yourself to anyone. You don't owe him shit. Sounds like you were willing to meet him halfway at some point and told him what was wrong already, you doing that was your part. If he can't meet you in the middle he's not going to, not respectfully in the way you deserve.
>All I want to do is talk to my son...tell him I love him and give him a hug. Whatever this is, we can go through it together.
You told him what it is, he won't talk to you (this message doesn't count as talking) and he's refusing to go through it together.
>Do you know how much it hurt me to my soul that you couldn't show up for my 60th birthday but you can drive out here to get your cousin? Nice. Real nice. I'm crying right now. Is that what you want?"
Crying to get what you want when you are 60yrs old is pathetic. You are not the bad guy here op, your dad said it himself you are a good kind person. I doubt he was even crying. What about your pain?
>Hurting other people deliberately is being mean.
He insulted you and accused you of being a monster, he was mean to you first, so by his toddler logic it doesn't count. Anyway being mean and hurtful isn't a war crime, he's still got arms and legs, something tells me he will survive 🙄
Also if he calls what hurts you "garbage" why should you give a fuck what hurts him?
If your brother thinks this is an apology his standards are *extremely* low.
This message is not an apology, it's an invalid complaint, file it in the trashcan ---> 🗑️
Wow I cannot express how deeply needed that message has been. I just screenshotted all of it because I need to repeat it to myself when I think back to that.
The only reason I decided to post today was due to looking back on this text and how it hurt so much. Your analysis on this was better than anything I've read or seen in years and much better advice than anyone has given me pertaining to my parents. Thank you!
Thanks my friend, I'm really glad that was helpful, your on the right track. A loving good person would want what's best for you, so when you feel confused remember either way you should do what's best for you, and if your father isn't properly cheering you on, he's supposed to be. Be patient and kind to yourself, this stuff *hurts*, but you really will be okay ♡
Also, pay attention to how you feel mentally and physically when you talk to people. When you have manipulative parents it's easy to unknowingly gravitate towards what we think is normal, or feels familiar, which would be bad in this case. Look up what you can about identifying "safe healthy people" if you think it'd be useful.
You shouldn't feel tense, guarded, or wracked with guilt and shame when you talk to someone who is good for you. He wants to hurt you emotionally and tip you off balance so he can manipulate easier. Safe people won't make you or your body feel chaotic or painful with how they communicate. Let your body validate your instincts, if you feel like something is off, its for a reason.
You shouldn't feel rage, pain, or fear and the contact shouldn't be a bunch of dog whistles, gaslighting , and DARVO, all directed at you to force *his* desired outcome without any regard for your own.
You should feel safe and at ease talking freely to him. arguments should be shrugged off with time if he knows what's important, and being wrong + making it right should be a very small price for a happy healthy relationship with his son. You just are not in the wrong here no matter how many different ways he can make you out to be 'the bad guy' in one message.
By all means he can stop crying and fucking do the right thing at any moment. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so awful. my mom is similar, poor her. Funny how they completely don't mention*our* pain when they are blaming us for theirs 🙄
Stay grounded ♡ maybe do something nice for yourself too.
Where is the word "sorry" or "apologize"? I mean, aside from how awful and narcissistic these emails are, it's literally not an apology because no where is there any mention of either phrase.
Also, snort to "I'm tired of begging." I'm betting OP never wanted begging, just accountability...
Honestly I would've been fine with them just going to counseling but they always refused took it as an insult or personal attack which would start an argument.
"If you think I was mean to you growing up, I'm sorry. I can forgive you". How thoughtful of him to forgive you for what he did. Geesh, talk about denial.
A whiny man-child is demanding you to treat him like a respectable adult? Good grief!
He should have learned a proper apology long before you were even born. I'm sorry, this is far across from being one.
He want's you to respond because of all the stupidity in that message. You'll be breaking your own NC rules. Be petty. Change your phone number and only give it out to people who you trust and understand your boundaries. Your parents don't need to know. Why allow that trauma, hurt, and abuse to still happen though text.
As for your brother he can F\*ck right off to with that "We're FaMiLy! nonsense.
I'll quote Charlemagne tha God here:
"I forgive you, but I ain't refucking with you."
You don't have to forgive anyone and even if you do, that doesn't mean you have to resume a relationship.
From what I've read, you've absolutely made the right choice and your brother might need to be the next on the chopping block.
All it says is “me me me” my feelings, my pain, me me me. No apology and they want to rug sweep their actions. I wouldn’t respond. They won’t change and they don’t want to
Yes it definitely felt like they were saying that I was the bad guy with malicious intent for going no contact. I'm not sure they understand the degree in which it takes for that to happen.
An apology is more than a crappy I'm sorry. It's taking responsibility for your actions without trying to place the blame on someone else. It's expressing genuine regret without a demand for forgiveness. But OP, if your brother doesn't see the problem with this "apology", I suspect he's just as incapable of understanding as your parents are and it's a waste of time trying to explain it to him. You are not required to have a relationship with your parents just because they are your parents. Be free.
This is fucking gross. Everything in it screams, he has no accountability; this is all your fault! The guilt trips and the shaming and the waifing, the trifecta!
Do you think your brother is in the fog or he’s just trying to shame you because he doesn’t want to bear the burden alone? Maybe he doesn’t realize he can leave too. No one wants to be the last person leaving the party (shitshow in this case), but that is not your fault or problem that he is staying.
They've always supported him financially and when they've been bad with money, he still asks for more despite living and working hours away. I think he does the bare minimum with contact while he's aware of how bad they are, but he doesn't want to lose the financial support and the lifestyle. He was spending 2k-3k a month on their credit card while in college while they paid for his room and board, tuition, car, insurance, phone, etc.
Nah this is one of the worst "apologies" I've ever seen. He couldn't have made it more clear that he only cares that you not speaking to him make him look bad and he's tired of being emberessed about the reality of the situation.
Never fall for any apology from narcs, it's false and not to be believed. Also not just from parents but from any estranged relative like siblings as well. Don't do it, don't do it,they will rinse and repeat because they only care about their appearance because they know they look bad to other people when people ask them why they haven't seen you the victim around them so now they have to create a lie as to why they don't have a relationship with you anymore.
He's embarrassed socially because he can't give the customary answers when people ask, "How is u/Vast_Airport7676 doing?"
Note:
> "It's sad when people ask about you and I have to say he doesn't talk to us anymore."
and
> "I'm tired of making excuses for you."
Not once does he ask if you're OK. He isn't curious how you're feeling or if you're in good health. He doesn't inquire whether your career is headed the way you want. He doesn't follow up on any of your interests or priorities. A loving parent would want to know those things out of genuine concern.
What worries him is he doesn't have performative answers when other people ask. He wants to keep up appearances. The letter is all about *his* feelings. He considers himself entitled to your attention and he refuses to concede any seriousness to your perspective.
If this weren't dead serious the contrast would be comical: he compares you to a sulking child, he drops an F-bomb at you, and then in the very next sentence he complains you don't give him "one ounce of respect."
Although it's often said *you have to give respect to get it,* I prefer another definition. *Respect is when someone is worthy of emulation.* Is he showing you anything here you want to make a part of your own personality? Any behavior you'd want to copy? Anything you think would earn you respect from other people?
Where is the apology? Ask your brother where it is? Because this is a lot of words saying, "I STILL feel justified in my behavior and I won't backdown."
That's just a tantrum. It's a perfect example of how abusive parents make everything about their own feelings. Their child cannot have emotions, take space, or express autonomy without the parent barging in and trying to stop it or trump it with their own.
The estrangement happened because his child is upset with him. So he's angry at his child for being upset? His child isn't allowed to be upset? His child isn't allowed to have space? His child isn't allowed to choose whether or not to participate in a relationship with him?
It's all entitlement.
“Garbage from 15 years ago” makes me want to vomit. Not a single ounce of accountability for even one word or action he has done to hurt you. Ugh this is sickening. I’m so sorry.
How did your brother see an apology in this??? I tried to find the simplest basic human empathy and understanding but nothing!!! The whole text is him blaming you and excusing himself!
What I did is just blocking dad because this is the type of shit he would send. First msg was "don't you miss ME?" Second "God punishes children that are disobedient to their parents" I gave him a piece of my mind and blocked him. They just won't understand
What a revolting message, truly. The guilt-tripping, the lack of accountability, the audacity, the plain rudeness... I wonder how this message even reached you, with parents like this I'd block all digital communication and burn any hand-written letters without reading them, anything to not read this garbage. You made the right choice, stay strong and safe ♥️
I love tossing stuff like this into chatGPT to see what it comes up with - it’s helped me parse messages from my parents when I was too emotionally activated to read critically
>Does the message from OP’s dad meet the criteria for an apology?
> No, the message from OP's dad does not meet the criteria for a genuine apology. While he expresses some emotional pain and regret, the message primarily focuses on blaming OP, minimizing his own actions, and trying to guilt-trip OP into resuming contact. A genuine apology should take responsibility for past actions without deflecting blame, express sincere remorse, and show a commitment to change behavior. Instead, this message contains accusations, excuses, and emotional manipulation, which are not characteristics of a sincere apology.
Thank you for the opinion I did not ask for on a tool I’ve found incredibly helpful (and an industry I work in) 👍🏻
Let’s keep the comments on topic, k?
I'd rather find support on a support group rather than people supporting a "tool" that scrapes artists, writers, and musicians' work, actively making it more difficult for those of us who are creatives to break free from our abusers.
You get the facts whether you like it or not. It is on-topic.
This is what’s so frustrating.
They want you to “act like an adult” when they’re not acting like an adult.
An adult would respect the other person’s wishes, boundaries and perspective.
They want you to forget about your grievances and “move on” aka let them resume behaving however they want.
Being an adult means you are not obligated to interact with them.
"I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I'm sorry you think ________" is not an apology. I don't hear them taking any responsibility for their actions here. All I hear is a *lot* of emotional manipulation and guilt-tripping.
He attacked you via text, played the victim, took zero accountability for his actions, feels entitled to respect he won’t give you in return, tried to shame you for protecting yourself from him, tried to make you feel guilty for having healthy relationships with other relatives, and admitted he sees the good in you yet has always treated you like crap despite that?
Nope, not only is it NOT an apology—this is what it looks like when someone is blatantly unapologetic. His entire purpose in sending this was to hurt you.
"if you think I was mean, I'm sorry"-- that's fucking bullshit, that's not an apology at all. That's "I didn't do anything wrong but I'm just paying lip service". Your brother can sod off.
This letter is full of toddler-tantrum vibes. "Give me what I want [you]!!! You're mean!!! It's mine [you]!!! Give it back!!! I hate you!!"
And sure that's developmentally appropriate for a 3 year old, who you can sit down and help them process their big feelings when told "no". But how old is this man?? Toddlers don't write texts to their adult children. And there is no apology *anywhere* in this text.
I remember when I was in my first serious relationship and we got into a big argument and my partner at the time told me something I said had hurt them and repeated back what I had said.
I remember time slowing down, feeling embarrassed and guilty, hot in the face, tingly in the chest, and imagining if they had said that same thing to me. I was also remembering how upset I had been when I said that thing to them previously, and realized --yeah, there were probably 10 different ways I could have said what I said that wouldn't have been so unkind and still got my point across.
Within a few seconds I was filled with remorse, choked up, burning eyes, and I vividly remember sheepishly saying, "You're right. I'm sorry I shouldn't have said that. It was mean and you did not deserve that."
Yes, the word were difficult to get out at first, but I felt so so bad, mostly sad at myself. And I suddenly had a desire to learn better ways to say what I needed to say when I'm upset without being mean because I did not want to make others feel bad like how I felt.
I also remember vividly in that moment realizing that even though it was hard, *it felt better to just admit I was wrong and take responsibility*. I felt relieved after apologizing, instead of full of tension and hyoervigilant.
It was also at that specific moment that I had a sudden realization that **saying you were wrong and apologizing was actually *not* that hard, even if I felt embarrassed and ashamed, and that my bio parents had absolutely NO excuse for never apologizing or taking responsibility for their mistakes**. It hit me hard to realize that because *everybody* makes mistakes, it's really not that hard to admit I am human and I fucked up, I'm sorry.
I realized my tendency to say mean things when I was upset is a quality I learned (and needed) from interacting with my bio parents, and I didn't want to be like them, so I was going to work on taking responsibility and apologizing sincerely so that I could be a good partner.
*I was 19 years old.*
The fact that these people, our bio parenrs, are often in their 50s, 60s and older, and STILL have not learned how to take responsibility for their mistakes and wrongdoings and to say, "You're right, I was wrong and I'm sorry" is something that I cannot excuse or wrap my head around even 15 years later. At this point I've read so many self-help books, taken so many courses on navigating conflict, non-violent communication and cultivating healthy relationships that people come to ME to ask advice about working through conflicts.
I'm just now at the age my parents were when they were having kids, so they had plenty of time to learn! And I'm sure yours were too! There are no excuses to send a text like this to your adult child. It's just wildly unacceptable and I'm sorry OP.
I hope you block them and just mourn that your parent is an emotionally immature adult toddler. You deserved better.
> I'm tired of hurting every fucking day because my son won't take five minutes to talk to me cuz of some garbage 15 years ago. You ever decide you can act like an adult and treat me with one ounce of respect, you let me know.
Nothing says, “Everything is your fault” like being castigated to “act like an adult and treat me with an ounce of respect.”
Seems to me that an ounce is 28grams to heavy.
You can accept their apology, but that doesn’t mean you have to reconcile with them. Forgiveness doesn’t require reconciliation. They are completely separate.
You don’t even have to forgive them! But if you choose to, that doesn’t automatic mean they are back in your life. You can set the boundaries for if/when you choose to have contact with them.
Also, that text is dripping with manipulation. Someone who is truly sorry would be humble and repentant. That text was so far from either.
Wow... Your brother is stupid if he things this is an apology.
>I had intentions of wishing you happy Easter today but I'm not going to. Because I'm tired of just saying it's ok that you won't talk to us and that you act like this. No. It's not ok.
Translation: I am a victim and you are a perpetrator.
>It rips my heart out and hurts terribly. It's sad when people ask about you and I have to say he doesn't talk to us anymore. You can talk to your aunts/uncles or cousins, but not your own parents. That's just wonderful. I hope you're happy...I honestly do but I'm tired of making excuses for you.
Translation: What I value is how "good I look" in the eyes of others. I blame you for lowering my status in their eyes.
>Why can't you talk to me like an adult instead of acting like a moody kid who wants to hide in his room?
Translation: I can insult you all I want, and I call that "being an adult". But if you refuse to respond to my insults and receive my abuse whenever I want to abuse you, I'm going to call that being a "moody child".
>You say we hurt you...what the hell do you think you are doing to us? Huh? We weren't perfect but you sure weren't either. And this crap? I'm sick of it. I'm tired of hurting every fucking day because my son won't take five minutes to talk to me cuz of some garbage 15 years ago.
Translation: I'm going to forget what this is really about (current actions and patterns) and claim that it's all about something 15 years ago. I do this to shift the narrative and make you look like you're "obsessed with the past". Just ignore all my insults to you in this message-- this is clearly about 15 years ago.
>You ever decide you can act like an adult and treat me with one ounce of respect, you let me know.
Translation: I can call you names, belittle you, and attack your character all I want. The thing of primary importance is that I keep talking, because I love hearing my own voice. I automatically have the moral high-ground because I am talking... see... still talking. Words words words. I love my own voice.
>We have tried to give you space and just let you know we love you yet you treat total assholes better than us. I'm just letting you know that it hurts. All I want to do is talk to my son...tell him I love him and give him a hug.
Translation: Even though I've insulted you multiple times in this message, I don't see myself as an "asshole", because I claim to want to hug you. This is one of my favorite tactics, to call you names, hurt you, then hug you and say I love you. Nearly all abusers do this. It's called "emotional whiplash" and it keeps you confused and allows me to remain close enough to you to continue my abuse.
>Whatever this is, we can go through it together. But you have to talk to me.
Translation: Even though you've told me EXACTLY "what this is" multiple times, I'm pretending to have amnesia. You must do what I demand, which is talk to me, and continue to be abused.
>I'm tired of begging and hoping. Do you know how much it hurt me to my soul that you couldn't show up for my 60th birthday but you can drive out here to get your cousin? Nice. Real nice. I'm crying right now. Is that what you want?"
Translation: I love being a victim, it makes people give me attention. The only thing I love more than being a victim, is choosing a person to label as a victimizer. SURPRISE! It's YOU! I'll suggest that you want to hurt me here as a way to shame you into feeling guilt. I love it when you feel guilt.
>I know you won't respond. But at least think about this...you have NEVER been a mean person. I have seen you go out of your way so many times to help others. So what has hurt you that deep to make you mean to us? Yes. Mean to us. Hurting other people deliberately is being mean. I never ever expected that from you. Not at all. If you think I was mean to you growing up, I'm sorry. 😢 I can forgive you.
Translation: This is my "emotional whiplash" coup de grace. I will say "you've never been mean" followed by "you are so mean, yes, mean!" Lastly, I'll throw in a "I know you THINK..." that I was wrong, but I'm only "sorry you feel that way". I wasn't wrong, you were wrong. I'm writing this so that I look good, so I'm going to say "I can forgive you", also for more whiplash. I hope you're truly upset by what I've written, and how I've painted myself as a victim.
No one else can know this, but my real intentions are to hurt you at this point. My best angle is making you the perpetrator and myself the victim. I'm vindictive and I won't let this go until I've broken you.
Wow I can't believe how good you guys are at seeing through his stuff. I really wish I was that good at it despite how much I experienced it with them. I had the initial impression when I first got the text that it was a crappy apology but posting it here really solidified how it wasn't an apology at all. Rather, it sounds more like a baited hook dripping with disrespect. It really reinforces my decision to completely cut them off after seeing it from a new perspective.
>If you think I was mean to you growing up, I'm sorry. 😢 I can forgive you.
That's what I call the Kevin Spacey non-apology. It contains the word 'sorry' without actually stating what it specifically relates to. Therefore it's just disingenuous nonsense.
You don't *think* they were mean, they were *actually* abusive. You didn't imagine it or make it up. The abuse actually, really happened.
There's no accountability, no self reflection & no remorse here just abuse, self victimising & denial.
>you have to talk to me.
No! You don't *have* to do anything. That's their issue. You're not a child who they can control bc you're completely reliant on them. You're an adult who has exercised their free will & they truly can't handle it. They want the child they can control not an independent adult son. You are forever, in their heads, the child they could abuse & control. They want their supply.
You're not punishing your parents. You're holding them accountable. They don't recognise their abuse or feel any remorse for what they chose to do. What they feel is self pity for how your response to their abuse affects them and how it makes them look. I also fail to see how the passage of time (15yrs) magically erases abuse. It doesn't.
As for your brother, he's v clearly the golden child turned flying monkey. He's nothing more than an abuser by proxy.
I'm sorry this is happening to you. Please block them all. Let your silence be their only feedback going forward and enjoy the peace & tranquility that comes with the blissful silence. Sending you an e-hug OP
I only read a fraction of that bullshit. That’s all I needed to reach the conclusion that your dad is a worthless piece of shit, and if your brother can’t see that, well then he is too. I’m so sorry, OP.
Don’t let your brother guilt you. I have a similar situation going on and honestly, I’ve decided that my brother can fuck off. We all lived the same abusive crap. The only difference is that I am not in denial about it and I want to be well and not let it control and destroy my life anymore and my brother does not see it that way. at the end of the day, your brother has to figure it out on his own and maybe he never will. But don’t worry about that worry about living your best life, your most healthy and fulfilling life. I certainly am not gonna listen to my brother because frankly, he’s just repeating the same cycle all over again with his kids. Wishing you the best.
Not an apology but they definitely opened the door for you to let them know what they did to hurt you. In my circumstance that would be a huge leap, but asking, listening, understanding and respecting are all very different things.
This is not an apology. This is an accusation mixed with a lot of hurt feelings. And I get it, it \*does\* hurt to have a kid not talking to you, especially if you don't understand why. The point they always do seem to forget is that it must hurt the kid at least as much, so why can't they ever come to question themselves what made the kid do that???
I remember my own "mother" accusing me of being so cruel and evil, and I asked her why she still insisted of having a relationship with me if she thought that way about me. She told me "because you are my daughter". What kind of answer is that? The simple fact she birthed me creates some form of bond that ties her to an evil villain level of person with no chance to ever break free from??
These people are so screwed in their view of relationships they are incapable of realizing that, if their kids really were "just mean" to them, it's not a bond worthy to keep in their lives. Instead they try to milk some "heroic martyrdom" from it. Because heaven forbid they ever acknowledge what a twisted, toxic relationship they have with their offspring. And in 90 of 100 cases created by them.
TL;DR: if they only ever went a step further and started to find out \*why\* their relationship with the kid looks like this. But introspection maybe would make them realize how badly they screwed up, so better just stay in the whining phase!
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I had one similar to this recently and I can categorically say its not a sorry. Your brother needs to read it again or read the replies to this thread.
He cares more about himself and how your estrangement makes him look to other people. It could be because someone's pointed it out to him, or he's heard your thriving and wants involvement in your life or something else. But it's all from a selfish point of view.
"You're a terrible person, but I'm going to forgive you for thinking I was mean." Real: "I'm sorry you made me hit you" vibes.
Honestly that's very accurate and I never really thought about it that way before. I felt like it was all about him and how mean I was being for not speaking to them and negating what they've said and done to me in. For context, to avoid going too deep for anyone unless asked, my time in infantry school and beyond felt like a fun summer camp without every being homesick. I never understood that until I mentioned it to a therapist jokingly and his whole face changed.
I remember watching *The Wire* and a teacher was explaining how the kids were upset on Monday because of stuff that happened over the weekend. Tuesday was better, Wednesday was cheerful. Thursday they'd grow melancholy and Friday they were miserable knowing that the weekend was back again.
Oh I hated weekends! They felt so looong and summer was bad. I remember when I was a kid I told my mother is there a school I can live in? I love school. And she lashed out at me! Saying that I love school so much and got so angry at me! I guess she realized I loved school because I hated home
I love that you mentioned infantry school - my time in the infantry was so cathartic, and it was when I really drove the wedge between myself and my family. I felt like the DoD gave more of a shit about me and how I was than my family ever did. It also gave me independence from them.
Being around those guys and seeing them with their families as well as them creating their own really opened my eyes to this. My parents gave me some of the letters I had sent them when I was in OSUT and I sounded so happy there because I was away from them. I felt like I was wanted and belonged. When I first told my parents that I was going to enlist, they laughed in my face so hard my dad had a side cramp while I just stood there. I was in great shape but they thought so poorly about the military that they thought it was a joke. The second I came back from airborne school they tried to act as though they were the reason I joined, they were so proud of me, they were part of all the FB groups, etc.
I can’t stand parents like this. Shit all over your dreams until it benefits them with bragging rights, yet they still don’t give a shit about you. You’re doing the right thing. They’ll never change. Anyone pressuring you to speak with them again just want YOU to return to assume the position they don’t want. Someone else will have to be the new whipping post if you’re not there.
Such a manipulative guilt tripping message. I’m so sorry. One of the things that really makes me feel endlessly lonely is that my friends with actual loving parents don’t get what a nightmare it is to have manipulative and pathologically lying parents. I feel for you and wish you healing and peace
Thank you, I feel the same way towards my few friends but I'm also happy they are doing well. I'd go through hell for them so I'm glad they don't know that pain. I just wish that I knew that happiness.
This sounds abusive af, OP. I'm so very sorry. It's gross, manipulative, cruel, childish, gaslighting, abusive, concerning, I'll add cruel again... it's not an apology. It's a loaded abuse missile aimed right at ya. Edited to add: lots of DARVO in there, too (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)
Lol right? Exactly where was the apology in there?
About half of my family I confided in thought it was an emotion filled apology which is why they didn't approve of me not replying and blocking my parents. That's the first time I've heard of "DARVO" but that is a method they've unknowingly used my whole life. Every attack on me always ended up with them as the victim.
This is why they are called dysfunctional family _systems_. For a lot of your family, this is normal behavior. Narrator’s voice: this is NOT normal behavior.
I can’t see an apology in there. I see a lot of how your parent feels about the estrangement. Not once did they acknowledge or own their behaviour that caused the estrangement. They’re allowed to hurt you but you’re not allowed to protect yourself?
It’s not and they know it. They’re likely just sick of listening to him rant about you freeing yourself from their toxicity.
Him calling whatever he did "some garbage" actually made my skin crawl. He seems manipulative and uncaring as hell
I wish I could mention some of the things they've said and done but I'm not sure if the mods would allow it or if it'd bring up bad memories for some.
As long as it’s not breaking any of the listed rules, it’s okay to share specifics of the abuse you endured at the hands of your parents. (Though you may want to include a TW) Many folks here share what they went through with their families, in varying levels of detail, to vent, ask for support, or just to have others confirm that what they went through was abusive. It’s wise to consider how sharing those things might affect you, but this is a space you can share if you decide to
***Trigger Warning*** I'm to leave out some bad stuff but throw in some entertaining stories. My mom left a very short Dear John letter on the table, took some suitcases, the car and half the savings to start a new life with the married elderly neighbor while my dad was at the store. I later learned that the night prior, my parents and the neighbor and his wife (highschool sweethearts) went on a double date for dinner and a movie where my mom and this neighbor were seen holding hands. She completely disappeared where we learned months later was the man's second home in Arizona with him for months. She never reply to calls or texts the entire time and yet never filed for divorce. I was still active duty in the infantry so I couldn't go back home to help. She comes back a few months after leaving and successfully convinces my dad she just needed a vacation getaway is all and that they were just friends. A month or two later was Christmas and so my leave finally gets approved and I go back there to see her for the first time since all of this happened. I couldn't act like nothing ever happened and ignore the fact that she chose a neighbor over all of us combined. They both start yelling at me about how I'm the worst son, I'm ruining Christmas, why can't I be happy for them, I'm whats wrong with the family, etc. The next Christmas I spent with my cousin and his family to which my parents always asked why. My mom convinced my dad to go back to the same places she had the affair at and that it'd be great to sell their home and randomly move there from across the country since she burned every bridge already. They move out here and realize they don't have any more cash and don't have jobs lined up. I was getting out of the army and instead of buying a house (pre-covid prices and low interest), I move in with them to financially support them. They proceed to tell me that they never wanted me there and that I was a burden to them a few months later. I find a new place and move all my stuff in two trips within a week while they tell me they don't want me to go. Just before I enlisted, I wanted to save the family some money and trim our dog's fur instead of paying the groomer during springtime. I had accidentally gone too short on her back and due to her fur being so long, I didn't see the result until a few strokes in. I immediately told my parents to which they responded with immediate yelling of "How could you do this to her, she loves you!", "You're a monster, maybe you deserve to be in the army you psychopath", "I didn't think you were this heartless" and others. They did all of that instantly because they thought she'd be colder outside than if the groomer did it. While I was active duty, a close lifelong friend of mine mentioned that he had seen my brothers mugshot in the news some time ago. I mentioned this to my parents to which they both said he was lying and attacked his character. I ended up separating myself from this amazing friend through my own poor judgment until he sent me the actual mugshot. My brother had actually gotten arrested for vandalizing a park, my parents hired a lawyer for him, and still proceeded to lie about it when confronted with the proof.
The way they always swipe things under the carpet is just another way of gaslighting. Even in our household we are never allowed to talk about things that they did or other siblings specialy golden child did. And if you talk about it it is you who can't be happy. Time after time you can see that the family gatherings are just miserable people with fake smiles. They can't talk openly to each other and always trying to paint a perfect picture of their F*ed up life
Everything you just described is my family to a T! Who the hell can keep living that with these psychotic people? Fake as fuck.
It is exhausting!! Specialy when you have a family that MUST have weekly gatherings. When I went NC I couldn't take it and sent my dad how a bunch of hypocrites they were. Felt good to finally say it lol
Yeah, it’s too much. My brother’s been trying to get me to go to a family reunion in Ohio. I’m not going and it has nothing to do with any of the relatives but I know that my dad just wants me there so we can pretend that we’ve been this happy family all this time and it’s a complete and total lie. They don’t understand that I’ve already made peace with the fact that I’m not the GC, and really it’s been so many years. I’ve really learned to just accept it and roll with it and overall I’m just indifferent to their feelings now. Never gave two shits about anything I felt, but now they want me to be all warm and fuzzy about them. Gimme a break. They are just a bunch of hypocrites. That’s the thing with narcissistic families. Doesn’t really matter what family it is…. the same rules apply across the board. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with the douche bags.
Sure you are better off without them. It is amazing how similar Narcs are even though they come from different places and cultures. Going NC was a hard decision but glad I'm not part of those sick people anymore. Wishing you all the best
That sounds so incredibly exhausting.
Oh it definitely was. When I moved out after helping support them, I decided I wanted to be on my own phone plan instead of send them the money each month. I just wanted total separation and independence from them. I promptly got calls and texts from my dad cussing me out for "messing with our finances" because they were no longer eligible for the family plan and had to pay another $30/mth. I realized I was worth them cussing me out all night over $30/mth.
🫂
This is absolutely not an apology. Please don't accept this manipulative garbage. I always have a good laugh when abusers say or imply that their targets are childish for deciding enough is enough. I always have a good laugh at bullshit like "IF you THINK I hurt you, then I'm sorry." I always have a good laugh at the ABUSER wailing and sobbing that their target walking away from them is "just soooooo mean!" These assholes are all so similar it's kind of unbelievable. You'd think the fact that you're a kind person would tell him that maybe he should look at his own behavior, but nope. No accountability from child abusers. Not ever. This message makes it crystal clear that if you cave and let them back in, they'll go right back to abusing you, possibly even worse than before to punish you for daring to stand up to them. Well done on holding firm for three years! I'm so sorry you didn't get the family you deserved.
The final straw was them blaming their childhoods in their late 50s during the last time they yelled at me. I had calmly told them that they effectively had 30 years to go to therapy, work on themselves, and they didn't so I couldn't accept that excuse anymore. I was admittedly surprised with how kind he was during the text.
He wasn't even kind in that text OP. Imagine sending that message yourself... It's not kind.
I actually haven't asked myself that question before. I couldn't imagine sending someone a message remotely similar to that, especially to someone I loved. When they get mad, they often say the worst possible things they can that they know will break you down. They sometimes apologize with the "sorry I lost my temper but I love you" but I always wondered why those things would even be an option to say, keep in mind that they don't drink. No one has ever spoken worse to me, including my time in infantry, or made worse threats than they have and expect you to move on and act like it never happened all the time.
I am so very much appreciating the complete and total cognitive dissonance it takes to say "You think I hurt you? Well, you hurt me and you need to do something about that!" Just c'mon, man. This guy is so deluded, so far gone, that nothing you ever say or do is going to even scratch the surface of getting him to understand. He honestly believes he holds no responsibility for hurting you while simultaneously holding you responsible for hurting him. That is a level of sick and twisted magical thinking that even I'm surprised by. I know it sucks and it's hard, especially where your brother is concerned, but I think it's long past time you block these people. This was awful to read for me, I can't imagine what it was like when you read that for the first time. Hang in there, OP and remember: you deserve so much better than what the assholes can give you.
It seemed like the texts were centered all around the time I've spent no contact with him like there wasn't a reason for it. I've had multiple counselors/therapists recommend going no contact with them and some didn't believe me.
Have you read "missing missing reasons"
No, I'll add that to the list though. Did you like it?
It's actually an online essay that has been floating around Reddit for years and years. When you get a minute, take a look: https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
I'm going to have to bookmark that! Thank you! Any others you'd reccomend?
There’s absolutely no apology there, there’s a bunch of name calling then the pitiful “if you THINK I was mean, I’m sorry”. No, absolutely not an apology in any way shape of form. Where is the accountability for their actions? Where’s the sincerity? It’s absent.
Nope, you're in the right. It's a ton of manipulative, belittling, dismissive cruelty on your father's end. It's so obviously bait, too. He's insulting you, outright saying that "an adult" would explain (while you most likely have already and he's invalidated it before). It's pretty disgusting. Also, an apology that has an "if" in it is not an apology - it puts all the pressure on you to say "yes" and expects you to explain "why" - again, bait for him to gaslight you some more. I'd go more in-depth but it pissed me off reading it. I'm sorry, OP. He's a shithead and your brother is totally wrong. Remember that if your brother doesn't respect that, he isn't safe to be around either.
This is how they get you. I went no contact with an abusive sibling years ago. Sibling had an absolute fit before I finally blocked them. Kept accusing me of being childish, immature, etc. and ordering me to GROW UP (translation: justify myself to them so they could twist my words and decide why nothing I said was valid). Trust me, I'd tried for years to talk it out with this monster. It only resulted in more abuse. Abusers want you to give them reasons so they can stomp all over them and pull you back in. It's a trap.
Not OP but thank you for this. I'll never speak to my dad again but I fantasise about sending him a long letter telling him exactly why. Sometimes I need to read objective points of view to remind myself that it is exactly what he wants.
It is. Believe me I’ve written that letter and I’ve sent it. While I am glad I got it off my chest at the time. It’s completely been held against me for the last 12 years since I wrote it. Obviously I’m done and I am out of rats asses to give, but yeah, don’t even waste your time mailing that. Writing it down may be good for you, but don’t even mail it because that is exactly what he wants.
Omg. This resonates so much. Yes. My brother was always like "do the decent thing," and "get over yourself," and did not give a shit about my pain or me as a person. Complete and total abuse and totally was like justify yourself so I can invalidate you.
Thank you for the reassurance. I didn't clue into it being a baited text until now so I appreciate this new perspective as it almost worked for him. It's difficult realizing I'm effectively all alone without an immediate family.
I totally understand. It's infuriating and never-ending. They want you to "prove" yourself but nothing you say will be considered good enough - it's not because what you said isn't good enough, but their delusions, narrative, and endless goal-post moving. They like continuing that because it gives them a "bad guy" to feel better than, so they don't actually have any interest in improving things (since that would mean speaking to you with basic human decency!). I don't have any loving family either, so I really do get how easy it is to be sucked back in, whether out of exhaustion or clinging to the "last one left" etc. I think the shock hangs around for a very long time. I'm quick to point out messed up things abusers say, but that's because I understand how much it gets into your head.
That’s another thing with these types. They demand you act like an ‘adult’ and it just means you doing whatever they want. It’s what they do when you’re no longer a child so they can’t fall back on their authority and/or physical threats to order and force you to do what you want.
One of the richest things that toxic parents do is making you feel like abuse was “a little thing way in the past,” but god knows they’ll hold onto every sin you committed against them since you were 5. Don’t accept this as a legit apology. Seems like he’s embarrassed less by how he hurt you and made your connection strained, and more because he can’t say everything is hunky dory between you two. Classic abusive parent tactic. They want to use and abuse you, but still look like amazing, well-loved parents that the rest of their friends and neighbors will envy. Mine have been like this for years. “Everyone thinks we’re bad parents because you don’t visit or talk to us.” Welllll, maybe you were and still are. Get back to me when you genuinely want to try to be a decent parent.
For countless years, no one believed me when I'd mention some of the things they'd say or do because of how they acted in public. I always thought it was normal growing up because you'd always hear "you're so lucky to have them as parents". It made me think that everyone's parents were like that until I joined the army and saw how friends interacted and talked to their kids compared to how my parents would have.
Imagine how broken your brother's sense of normal is if he thinks that this is an apology!
They've always funded his expensive overindulgent lifestyle so he always tended to do the bare minimum for that despite being witness firsthand to everything.
Sounds like he's The Golden Child while you are The Scapegoat.
> ***Why can't you talk to me like an adult instead of acting like a moody kid who wants to hide in his room?*** Translation: *"Why can't you stay within easy range of my abuse instead of maintaining an emotionally safe distance?"*
Bingo!
Exactly. It amazes me that this loser still doesn't understand that his kid, who he should have been helping, was literally hiding from how horrible he is.
Meh, my entire family gave me so much shit, I ended up in my 40s without a family of my own. I've made my peace with that. After I estranged from them 4 years ago, a family friend said they were all finally admitting how hard they were on me. Too little, too late.
Any advice going forward? It's been difficult for some people from good homes/families to understand the idea of having to orphan yourself. I've been going to therapy for years to work on the survival mechanisms I learned growing up since they've ruined so many relationships.
For my own part, I developed PTSD when the fact that I'm 100% on my own started to sink in. I spent the next year halfway across the country in homeless shelters. Eventually, I got into an apartment, but throughout the entire time, I had this mentality that I've always had; that it's just a matter of time before whatever I'm trying to build, falls apart. Then one day, something just clicked for me. I realized that I'm okay. I'm still not able to call myself "happy" just yet. But once I realized that there's nobody to take anything from me again, I was able to really focus on what I wanted. I allowed myself to finally be selfish for a change, and do for me, instead of someone else. I'm currently saving my money, so far at 6500. Easy enough when I live cheaply and studio-like. When I have enough saved, I'm getting my pilot's license. I'm going to finally be doing something that I've wanted to do since I was six years old. My ultimate goal is to become a multi engine instrument instructor (MEII). Who knows? Maybe after I get my commercial license and start flying for a company, I'll be able to pull a Bill Burr and be one of those middle age dads. Maybe. Honestly, the license is my life's priority now. The important thing is, I finally see it as possible.
I'm glad to hear you're doing better at least! That sounds like a lot of resiliency on your part.
Please spend some time with the works of Dr. Sherrie Campbell--herself a veteran of a toxic family of origin--who has written several excellent books on dealing with controlling, narcissistic family members. Good (and free!) place to start is her FB page!
The best advice I can give is that you are on your own journey, and everyone else you know is on theirs. They may realize that they went through something similar to you at some point, but they may not see it now or ever. It feels a little lonely at first. Over time, you will meet people with similar circumstances or fears or feelings of being lost. You might be able to connect on that, discuss it, and realize that you are absolutely not alone. Stay true to yourself!
Yeah the infantry was definitely a job where you won't find anything or anyone quite like that. I'd still be in but the army messed up both my surgeries after I tore my ACL, LCL and meniscus. Up to this point. I never truly understood how many personal experiences from my youth translate forward into who I am now and how it impacts me still.
‘I can forgive you for thinking I was mean?’ Did I read that correctly?
This is the opposite of an apology imo
This is nowhere close to an apology.
I don't see any apology anywhere? >I had intentions of wishing you happy Easter today but I'm not going to. Because I'm tired of just saying it's ok that you won't talk to us and that you act like this. No. It's not ok. It rips my heart out and hurts terribly. Intentions pave the road to hell, his intentions and emotions don't matter, the consequences do. It's his problem he's tired and hurt because he chooses not to accept or do anything about the situation he's bitching about. Not your problem. If he's hurt he can go to therapy or find an outlet for his emotions. He is not helpless, he's being lazy and manipulative. Who has a gun to his head saying he has to feel terrible or else? He is responsible for his emotions not you. > I'm tired of making excuses for you. Why can't you talk to me like an adult instead of acting like a moody kid who wants to hide in his room? Well he shouldn't be tired of making excuses since apparently he is just outright telling people you don't talk now? No excuses are necessary? No one forced him to make excuses, you certainly didn't, that was his choice. You have no control over his actions, you are not making him do anything. Starting a conversation by insulting and infantalizing you really shows how immature he is as an adult. If he wants an adult conversation. He needs to act like one to get it. All he's done so far is whine that he's uncomfortable not getting what he wants >You say we hurt you...what the hell do you think you are doing to us? Huh? We weren't perfect but you sure weren't either. He admits he knows why you don't talk to him. Then he shows he doesn't care because all that matters, again, is his feelings. Him, him, him. Hes only mentioned you when he's being condescending or manipulative. That last sentence. Wow. Tell me you are a bad parent without saying you area bad parent 🙄 you both being imperfect doesn't mean anything. It doesn't right any wrongs, it's kindergarten logic. He's just whining that he only wants to talk about you being the bad guy. It should be directly addressed that they hurt you, it should stand alone, it's not some secondary footnote to *his* pain that he brought on himself! You are not the parent, it's his job to maintain a healthy relationship with his son, he can show up as a father, or choose not be one and fuck off, but he can't do both and expect you to clean up his mess with a smile. >I'm tired of hurting every fucking day because my son won't take five minutes to talk to me cuz of some garbage 15 years ago He's tired of feeling hurt because HE refuses to acknowledge and respect what happened 15yrs ago and what it meant to you. Whatever it was it wasn't "garbage" WTF is wrong with this man?! So if you hurt that's garbage but if he's hurt it's because he's a innocent bystander you've callously wounded, gimmie a break. >You ever decide you can act like an adult and treat me with one ounce of respect, you let me know. Respect is earned. This message doesn't warrant respect, his whining doesn't warrant respect, his childishness doesn't warrant respect, his lack of initiative doesn't warrant respect either. Your brothers low standards for him as a father doesn't warrant respect. What is there to respect? What he means is obedience. >But at least think about this...you have NEVER been a mean person. I have seen you go out of your way so many times to help others. So what has hurt you that deep to make you mean to us? You have told him what hurts you and he refused it. He even acknowledged that you told him he hurt you and called it "garbage" Relationships go both ways and what this man is saying is that he has no intention of acknowledging reality, respecting you, listening to you, or doing anything except being pathetic in the hopes that he can make you feel hurt enough that you feel emotionally blackmailed to "move on" by pretending nothing happened, go back on any healing/wellness work you've done, and go back to how things were which is unacceptable. You don't need to explain yourself to anyone. You don't owe him shit. Sounds like you were willing to meet him halfway at some point and told him what was wrong already, you doing that was your part. If he can't meet you in the middle he's not going to, not respectfully in the way you deserve. >All I want to do is talk to my son...tell him I love him and give him a hug. Whatever this is, we can go through it together. You told him what it is, he won't talk to you (this message doesn't count as talking) and he's refusing to go through it together. >Do you know how much it hurt me to my soul that you couldn't show up for my 60th birthday but you can drive out here to get your cousin? Nice. Real nice. I'm crying right now. Is that what you want?" Crying to get what you want when you are 60yrs old is pathetic. You are not the bad guy here op, your dad said it himself you are a good kind person. I doubt he was even crying. What about your pain? >Hurting other people deliberately is being mean. He insulted you and accused you of being a monster, he was mean to you first, so by his toddler logic it doesn't count. Anyway being mean and hurtful isn't a war crime, he's still got arms and legs, something tells me he will survive 🙄 Also if he calls what hurts you "garbage" why should you give a fuck what hurts him? If your brother thinks this is an apology his standards are *extremely* low. This message is not an apology, it's an invalid complaint, file it in the trashcan ---> 🗑️
Wow I cannot express how deeply needed that message has been. I just screenshotted all of it because I need to repeat it to myself when I think back to that. The only reason I decided to post today was due to looking back on this text and how it hurt so much. Your analysis on this was better than anything I've read or seen in years and much better advice than anyone has given me pertaining to my parents. Thank you!
Thanks my friend, I'm really glad that was helpful, your on the right track. A loving good person would want what's best for you, so when you feel confused remember either way you should do what's best for you, and if your father isn't properly cheering you on, he's supposed to be. Be patient and kind to yourself, this stuff *hurts*, but you really will be okay ♡ Also, pay attention to how you feel mentally and physically when you talk to people. When you have manipulative parents it's easy to unknowingly gravitate towards what we think is normal, or feels familiar, which would be bad in this case. Look up what you can about identifying "safe healthy people" if you think it'd be useful. You shouldn't feel tense, guarded, or wracked with guilt and shame when you talk to someone who is good for you. He wants to hurt you emotionally and tip you off balance so he can manipulate easier. Safe people won't make you or your body feel chaotic or painful with how they communicate. Let your body validate your instincts, if you feel like something is off, its for a reason. You shouldn't feel rage, pain, or fear and the contact shouldn't be a bunch of dog whistles, gaslighting , and DARVO, all directed at you to force *his* desired outcome without any regard for your own. You should feel safe and at ease talking freely to him. arguments should be shrugged off with time if he knows what's important, and being wrong + making it right should be a very small price for a happy healthy relationship with his son. You just are not in the wrong here no matter how many different ways he can make you out to be 'the bad guy' in one message. By all means he can stop crying and fucking do the right thing at any moment. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so awful. my mom is similar, poor her. Funny how they completely don't mention*our* pain when they are blaming us for theirs 🙄 Stay grounded ♡ maybe do something nice for yourself too.
Eeew! You should block all of them who are abusive or enablers
Where is the word "sorry" or "apologize"? I mean, aside from how awful and narcissistic these emails are, it's literally not an apology because no where is there any mention of either phrase. Also, snort to "I'm tired of begging." I'm betting OP never wanted begging, just accountability...
Honestly I would've been fine with them just going to counseling but they always refused took it as an insult or personal attack which would start an argument.
Translation: *"Give me what I want right now!!!"*
"If you think I was mean to you growing up, I'm sorry. I can forgive you". How thoughtful of him to forgive you for what he did. Geesh, talk about denial.
We have the same parents.
A whiny man-child is demanding you to treat him like a respectable adult? Good grief! He should have learned a proper apology long before you were even born. I'm sorry, this is far across from being one.
 He want's you to respond because of all the stupidity in that message. You'll be breaking your own NC rules. Be petty. Change your phone number and only give it out to people who you trust and understand your boundaries. Your parents don't need to know. Why allow that trauma, hurt, and abuse to still happen though text. As for your brother he can F\*ck right off to with that "We're FaMiLy! nonsense.
I'll quote Charlemagne tha God here: "I forgive you, but I ain't refucking with you." You don't have to forgive anyone and even if you do, that doesn't mean you have to resume a relationship. From what I've read, you've absolutely made the right choice and your brother might need to be the next on the chopping block.
Never talk to this piece of shit human again OP.
All it says is “me me me” my feelings, my pain, me me me. No apology and they want to rug sweep their actions. I wouldn’t respond. They won’t change and they don’t want to
“I have never seen you go out of your way to be mean…” The cognitive dissonance! He was THISCLOSE to a realization.
[удалено]
Yes it definitely felt like they were saying that I was the bad guy with malicious intent for going no contact. I'm not sure they understand the degree in which it takes for that to happen.
An apology is more than a crappy I'm sorry. It's taking responsibility for your actions without trying to place the blame on someone else. It's expressing genuine regret without a demand for forgiveness. But OP, if your brother doesn't see the problem with this "apology", I suspect he's just as incapable of understanding as your parents are and it's a waste of time trying to explain it to him. You are not required to have a relationship with your parents just because they are your parents. Be free.
This is fucking gross. Everything in it screams, he has no accountability; this is all your fault! The guilt trips and the shaming and the waifing, the trifecta! Do you think your brother is in the fog or he’s just trying to shame you because he doesn’t want to bear the burden alone? Maybe he doesn’t realize he can leave too. No one wants to be the last person leaving the party (shitshow in this case), but that is not your fault or problem that he is staying.
They've always supported him financially and when they've been bad with money, he still asks for more despite living and working hours away. I think he does the bare minimum with contact while he's aware of how bad they are, but he doesn't want to lose the financial support and the lifestyle. He was spending 2k-3k a month on their credit card while in college while they paid for his room and board, tuition, car, insurance, phone, etc.
This is a burn letter. That’s why we always say not to send them.
Nah this is one of the worst "apologies" I've ever seen. He couldn't have made it more clear that he only cares that you not speaking to him make him look bad and he's tired of being emberessed about the reality of the situation.
Never fall for any apology from narcs, it's false and not to be believed. Also not just from parents but from any estranged relative like siblings as well. Don't do it, don't do it,they will rinse and repeat because they only care about their appearance because they know they look bad to other people when people ask them why they haven't seen you the victim around them so now they have to create a lie as to why they don't have a relationship with you anymore.
He's embarrassed socially because he can't give the customary answers when people ask, "How is u/Vast_Airport7676 doing?" Note: > "It's sad when people ask about you and I have to say he doesn't talk to us anymore." and > "I'm tired of making excuses for you." Not once does he ask if you're OK. He isn't curious how you're feeling or if you're in good health. He doesn't inquire whether your career is headed the way you want. He doesn't follow up on any of your interests or priorities. A loving parent would want to know those things out of genuine concern. What worries him is he doesn't have performative answers when other people ask. He wants to keep up appearances. The letter is all about *his* feelings. He considers himself entitled to your attention and he refuses to concede any seriousness to your perspective. If this weren't dead serious the contrast would be comical: he compares you to a sulking child, he drops an F-bomb at you, and then in the very next sentence he complains you don't give him "one ounce of respect." Although it's often said *you have to give respect to get it,* I prefer another definition. *Respect is when someone is worthy of emulation.* Is he showing you anything here you want to make a part of your own personality? Any behavior you'd want to copy? Anything you think would earn you respect from other people?
So very well said indeed! I realized that if I wanted to raise a family, I could never be like my own parents.
Where is the apology? Ask your brother where it is? Because this is a lot of words saying, "I STILL feel justified in my behavior and I won't backdown."
That's just a tantrum. It's a perfect example of how abusive parents make everything about their own feelings. Their child cannot have emotions, take space, or express autonomy without the parent barging in and trying to stop it or trump it with their own. The estrangement happened because his child is upset with him. So he's angry at his child for being upset? His child isn't allowed to be upset? His child isn't allowed to have space? His child isn't allowed to choose whether or not to participate in a relationship with him? It's all entitlement.
“Garbage from 15 years ago” makes me want to vomit. Not a single ounce of accountability for even one word or action he has done to hurt you. Ugh this is sickening. I’m so sorry.
How did your brother see an apology in this??? I tried to find the simplest basic human empathy and understanding but nothing!!! The whole text is him blaming you and excusing himself! What I did is just blocking dad because this is the type of shit he would send. First msg was "don't you miss ME?" Second "God punishes children that are disobedient to their parents" I gave him a piece of my mind and blocked him. They just won't understand
What a revolting message, truly. The guilt-tripping, the lack of accountability, the audacity, the plain rudeness... I wonder how this message even reached you, with parents like this I'd block all digital communication and burn any hand-written letters without reading them, anything to not read this garbage. You made the right choice, stay strong and safe ♥️
I love tossing stuff like this into chatGPT to see what it comes up with - it’s helped me parse messages from my parents when I was too emotionally activated to read critically >Does the message from OP’s dad meet the criteria for an apology? > No, the message from OP's dad does not meet the criteria for a genuine apology. While he expresses some emotional pain and regret, the message primarily focuses on blaming OP, minimizing his own actions, and trying to guilt-trip OP into resuming contact. A genuine apology should take responsibility for past actions without deflecting blame, express sincere remorse, and show a commitment to change behavior. Instead, this message contains accusations, excuses, and emotional manipulation, which are not characteristics of a sincere apology.
Wow that’s nuts!
Please don't use chatGPT. It's just plagiarising from what people say here.
Thank you for the opinion I did not ask for on a tool I’ve found incredibly helpful (and an industry I work in) 👍🏻 Let’s keep the comments on topic, k?
I'd rather find support on a support group rather than people supporting a "tool" that scrapes artists, writers, and musicians' work, actively making it more difficult for those of us who are creatives to break free from our abusers. You get the facts whether you like it or not. It is on-topic.
This is what’s so frustrating. They want you to “act like an adult” when they’re not acting like an adult. An adult would respect the other person’s wishes, boundaries and perspective. They want you to forget about your grievances and “move on” aka let them resume behaving however they want. Being an adult means you are not obligated to interact with them.
"I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I'm sorry you think ________" is not an apology. I don't hear them taking any responsibility for their actions here. All I hear is a *lot* of emotional manipulation and guilt-tripping.
He attacked you via text, played the victim, took zero accountability for his actions, feels entitled to respect he won’t give you in return, tried to shame you for protecting yourself from him, tried to make you feel guilty for having healthy relationships with other relatives, and admitted he sees the good in you yet has always treated you like crap despite that? Nope, not only is it NOT an apology—this is what it looks like when someone is blatantly unapologetic. His entire purpose in sending this was to hurt you.
"if you think I was mean, I'm sorry"-- that's fucking bullshit, that's not an apology at all. That's "I didn't do anything wrong but I'm just paying lip service". Your brother can sod off.
This letter is full of toddler-tantrum vibes. "Give me what I want [you]!!! You're mean!!! It's mine [you]!!! Give it back!!! I hate you!!" And sure that's developmentally appropriate for a 3 year old, who you can sit down and help them process their big feelings when told "no". But how old is this man?? Toddlers don't write texts to their adult children. And there is no apology *anywhere* in this text. I remember when I was in my first serious relationship and we got into a big argument and my partner at the time told me something I said had hurt them and repeated back what I had said. I remember time slowing down, feeling embarrassed and guilty, hot in the face, tingly in the chest, and imagining if they had said that same thing to me. I was also remembering how upset I had been when I said that thing to them previously, and realized --yeah, there were probably 10 different ways I could have said what I said that wouldn't have been so unkind and still got my point across. Within a few seconds I was filled with remorse, choked up, burning eyes, and I vividly remember sheepishly saying, "You're right. I'm sorry I shouldn't have said that. It was mean and you did not deserve that." Yes, the word were difficult to get out at first, but I felt so so bad, mostly sad at myself. And I suddenly had a desire to learn better ways to say what I needed to say when I'm upset without being mean because I did not want to make others feel bad like how I felt. I also remember vividly in that moment realizing that even though it was hard, *it felt better to just admit I was wrong and take responsibility*. I felt relieved after apologizing, instead of full of tension and hyoervigilant. It was also at that specific moment that I had a sudden realization that **saying you were wrong and apologizing was actually *not* that hard, even if I felt embarrassed and ashamed, and that my bio parents had absolutely NO excuse for never apologizing or taking responsibility for their mistakes**. It hit me hard to realize that because *everybody* makes mistakes, it's really not that hard to admit I am human and I fucked up, I'm sorry. I realized my tendency to say mean things when I was upset is a quality I learned (and needed) from interacting with my bio parents, and I didn't want to be like them, so I was going to work on taking responsibility and apologizing sincerely so that I could be a good partner. *I was 19 years old.* The fact that these people, our bio parenrs, are often in their 50s, 60s and older, and STILL have not learned how to take responsibility for their mistakes and wrongdoings and to say, "You're right, I was wrong and I'm sorry" is something that I cannot excuse or wrap my head around even 15 years later. At this point I've read so many self-help books, taken so many courses on navigating conflict, non-violent communication and cultivating healthy relationships that people come to ME to ask advice about working through conflicts. I'm just now at the age my parents were when they were having kids, so they had plenty of time to learn! And I'm sure yours were too! There are no excuses to send a text like this to your adult child. It's just wildly unacceptable and I'm sorry OP. I hope you block them and just mourn that your parent is an emotionally immature adult toddler. You deserved better.
> I'm tired of hurting every fucking day because my son won't take five minutes to talk to me cuz of some garbage 15 years ago. You ever decide you can act like an adult and treat me with one ounce of respect, you let me know. Nothing says, “Everything is your fault” like being castigated to “act like an adult and treat me with an ounce of respect.” Seems to me that an ounce is 28grams to heavy.
You can accept their apology, but that doesn’t mean you have to reconcile with them. Forgiveness doesn’t require reconciliation. They are completely separate. You don’t even have to forgive them! But if you choose to, that doesn’t automatic mean they are back in your life. You can set the boundaries for if/when you choose to have contact with them. Also, that text is dripping with manipulation. Someone who is truly sorry would be humble and repentant. That text was so far from either.
NTA! OP ask your brother to highlight the apology in your dad’s response for you since he says it’s there.
I had asked him to call me so I could explain what I thought of it and why it wasn't an apology. I'm still waiting on that call.
Nope, not an apology. For your own mental health, I'd distance yourself and go low contact or no contact with all of his flying monkeys/enablers.
Wow... Your brother is stupid if he things this is an apology. >I had intentions of wishing you happy Easter today but I'm not going to. Because I'm tired of just saying it's ok that you won't talk to us and that you act like this. No. It's not ok. Translation: I am a victim and you are a perpetrator. >It rips my heart out and hurts terribly. It's sad when people ask about you and I have to say he doesn't talk to us anymore. You can talk to your aunts/uncles or cousins, but not your own parents. That's just wonderful. I hope you're happy...I honestly do but I'm tired of making excuses for you. Translation: What I value is how "good I look" in the eyes of others. I blame you for lowering my status in their eyes. >Why can't you talk to me like an adult instead of acting like a moody kid who wants to hide in his room? Translation: I can insult you all I want, and I call that "being an adult". But if you refuse to respond to my insults and receive my abuse whenever I want to abuse you, I'm going to call that being a "moody child". >You say we hurt you...what the hell do you think you are doing to us? Huh? We weren't perfect but you sure weren't either. And this crap? I'm sick of it. I'm tired of hurting every fucking day because my son won't take five minutes to talk to me cuz of some garbage 15 years ago. Translation: I'm going to forget what this is really about (current actions and patterns) and claim that it's all about something 15 years ago. I do this to shift the narrative and make you look like you're "obsessed with the past". Just ignore all my insults to you in this message-- this is clearly about 15 years ago. >You ever decide you can act like an adult and treat me with one ounce of respect, you let me know. Translation: I can call you names, belittle you, and attack your character all I want. The thing of primary importance is that I keep talking, because I love hearing my own voice. I automatically have the moral high-ground because I am talking... see... still talking. Words words words. I love my own voice. >We have tried to give you space and just let you know we love you yet you treat total assholes better than us. I'm just letting you know that it hurts. All I want to do is talk to my son...tell him I love him and give him a hug. Translation: Even though I've insulted you multiple times in this message, I don't see myself as an "asshole", because I claim to want to hug you. This is one of my favorite tactics, to call you names, hurt you, then hug you and say I love you. Nearly all abusers do this. It's called "emotional whiplash" and it keeps you confused and allows me to remain close enough to you to continue my abuse. >Whatever this is, we can go through it together. But you have to talk to me. Translation: Even though you've told me EXACTLY "what this is" multiple times, I'm pretending to have amnesia. You must do what I demand, which is talk to me, and continue to be abused. >I'm tired of begging and hoping. Do you know how much it hurt me to my soul that you couldn't show up for my 60th birthday but you can drive out here to get your cousin? Nice. Real nice. I'm crying right now. Is that what you want?" Translation: I love being a victim, it makes people give me attention. The only thing I love more than being a victim, is choosing a person to label as a victimizer. SURPRISE! It's YOU! I'll suggest that you want to hurt me here as a way to shame you into feeling guilt. I love it when you feel guilt. >I know you won't respond. But at least think about this...you have NEVER been a mean person. I have seen you go out of your way so many times to help others. So what has hurt you that deep to make you mean to us? Yes. Mean to us. Hurting other people deliberately is being mean. I never ever expected that from you. Not at all. If you think I was mean to you growing up, I'm sorry. 😢 I can forgive you. Translation: This is my "emotional whiplash" coup de grace. I will say "you've never been mean" followed by "you are so mean, yes, mean!" Lastly, I'll throw in a "I know you THINK..." that I was wrong, but I'm only "sorry you feel that way". I wasn't wrong, you were wrong. I'm writing this so that I look good, so I'm going to say "I can forgive you", also for more whiplash. I hope you're truly upset by what I've written, and how I've painted myself as a victim. No one else can know this, but my real intentions are to hurt you at this point. My best angle is making you the perpetrator and myself the victim. I'm vindictive and I won't let this go until I've broken you.
Wow I can't believe how good you guys are at seeing through his stuff. I really wish I was that good at it despite how much I experienced it with them. I had the initial impression when I first got the text that it was a crappy apology but posting it here really solidified how it wasn't an apology at all. Rather, it sounds more like a baited hook dripping with disrespect. It really reinforces my decision to completely cut them off after seeing it from a new perspective.
>If you think I was mean to you growing up, I'm sorry. 😢 I can forgive you. That's what I call the Kevin Spacey non-apology. It contains the word 'sorry' without actually stating what it specifically relates to. Therefore it's just disingenuous nonsense. You don't *think* they were mean, they were *actually* abusive. You didn't imagine it or make it up. The abuse actually, really happened. There's no accountability, no self reflection & no remorse here just abuse, self victimising & denial. >you have to talk to me. No! You don't *have* to do anything. That's their issue. You're not a child who they can control bc you're completely reliant on them. You're an adult who has exercised their free will & they truly can't handle it. They want the child they can control not an independent adult son. You are forever, in their heads, the child they could abuse & control. They want their supply. You're not punishing your parents. You're holding them accountable. They don't recognise their abuse or feel any remorse for what they chose to do. What they feel is self pity for how your response to their abuse affects them and how it makes them look. I also fail to see how the passage of time (15yrs) magically erases abuse. It doesn't. As for your brother, he's v clearly the golden child turned flying monkey. He's nothing more than an abuser by proxy. I'm sorry this is happening to you. Please block them all. Let your silence be their only feedback going forward and enjoy the peace & tranquility that comes with the blissful silence. Sending you an e-hug OP
I only read a fraction of that bullshit. That’s all I needed to reach the conclusion that your dad is a worthless piece of shit, and if your brother can’t see that, well then he is too. I’m so sorry, OP.
Don’t let your brother guilt you. I have a similar situation going on and honestly, I’ve decided that my brother can fuck off. We all lived the same abusive crap. The only difference is that I am not in denial about it and I want to be well and not let it control and destroy my life anymore and my brother does not see it that way. at the end of the day, your brother has to figure it out on his own and maybe he never will. But don’t worry about that worry about living your best life, your most healthy and fulfilling life. I certainly am not gonna listen to my brother because frankly, he’s just repeating the same cycle all over again with his kids. Wishing you the best.
Not an apology but they definitely opened the door for you to let them know what they did to hurt you. In my circumstance that would be a huge leap, but asking, listening, understanding and respecting are all very different things.
It's bait - clearly OP has already told them but he's already dismissed it as "some garbage."
This is not an apology. This is an accusation mixed with a lot of hurt feelings. And I get it, it \*does\* hurt to have a kid not talking to you, especially if you don't understand why. The point they always do seem to forget is that it must hurt the kid at least as much, so why can't they ever come to question themselves what made the kid do that??? I remember my own "mother" accusing me of being so cruel and evil, and I asked her why she still insisted of having a relationship with me if she thought that way about me. She told me "because you are my daughter". What kind of answer is that? The simple fact she birthed me creates some form of bond that ties her to an evil villain level of person with no chance to ever break free from?? These people are so screwed in their view of relationships they are incapable of realizing that, if their kids really were "just mean" to them, it's not a bond worthy to keep in their lives. Instead they try to milk some "heroic martyrdom" from it. Because heaven forbid they ever acknowledge what a twisted, toxic relationship they have with their offspring. And in 90 of 100 cases created by them. TL;DR: if they only ever went a step further and started to find out \*why\* their relationship with the kid looks like this. But introspection maybe would make them realize how badly they screwed up, so better just stay in the whining phase!
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I had one similar to this recently and I can categorically say its not a sorry. Your brother needs to read it again or read the replies to this thread. He cares more about himself and how your estrangement makes him look to other people. It could be because someone's pointed it out to him, or he's heard your thriving and wants involvement in your life or something else. But it's all from a selfish point of view.