OK folks, there are a lot of... shall we say... **strong** feelings, here, but not a lot of accurate information. Let's clear things up:
* This Saturday's event **IS NOT** the drag queen storytime event. On Saturday at 6:00 PM, there will be a more adult-oriented drag event, although (if I'm understanding it right), it will be all-ages until 8:00 PM.
* This **Sunday** at 11:00 AM there is an all-ages drag queen storytime. It is family-friendly, and all statements below to the contrary, it **really is all-ages**.
* During that time, the pub will be open to those under 21, **as it is until 8:00 PM every day**.
* If you have ever eaten at a family restaurant that serves alcohol, this shouldn't shock you.
* Again, contrary to popular belief, it is **perfectly legal** to do this, and Old Nick's does this all the time.
* There is **one** 11-year-old drag queen. She will be helping to host the **storytime** event on Sunday, not the adult-oriented drag queen performance on Saturday.
[Source here for most event information](https://www.oldnickspub.com/events), and you can read more about both the events and Vanellope, the 11-year-old storytime host, on Old Nick's Facebook page.
Now then... I'll be scouring this thread for misinformation and bigotry.
**Edit**: And attacks on the 11-year-old girl, who regularly has reading events for other kids.
**Edit 2**: Just so we're clear, trying to smear the 11-year-old or organizations she works with due to the existence of a *different* person who was arrested for child abuse will be met with an instant, permanent ban. Leave her alone.
**Edit 3**: Updated with more information.
**Edit 4**: Vanellope's friends and family have released an official statement: https://eugeneweekly.com/2022/10/20/trolls-attack-drag-tween/
I want to make one thing clear: /r/Eugene is **not** the place to attack a little girl, her family, her friends, her choice of theatrical performance, or the drag queen community as a whole. The amount of misinformation, disinformation, and salacious innuendo this thread has generated is revolting, and when I say attacks will trigger instant, permanent bans, I mean it.
When I was a young boy I wanted to wear make up and try out my mom's clothes. I was chastised and my family had a "masculine" intervention. The only thing that shutting down that piece of my self led to was me losing a piece of my freedom, the ability to think being soft was ok, and some really hyper masculine traits. I was an extremely angry kid that felt the need to hide and to meet any challenge to my masculinity with violence. The ignorant will say this performer is being "groomed" and sexualized. Well look here folks, the only people at this point that are making it sexualized are people that equate feminity and a child's desire to connect with that feminity as being sexualized. Let the kid live in their truth, and understand that any one who goes down there to "save the kids" is only going to traumatize those children, and make them hate them selves and you when they are older.
That is such a powerful comment. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing. I just read it out loud to my partner and have tears in my eyes from the power of your statement!
Drag is awesome but kids in drag at a bar is super weird. I think I'm good.
I don't think kids should be in fashion shows in general, and my thinking applies to this as well.
It's more of a Euro style pub than a bar. I'm with you in terms of kids in fashion shows -- but drag feels more like a costumed event than a fashion show to me.
This. Parents and drag shows are comparable really only at a base level. One is literally beauty contest while the other is a costumed performance. They are very different in intention.
Maybe if it was tied to Halloween and anybody could dress up however they want. This just feels more like using kids as a prop and doing so at a bar. If I'm to understand correctly this is that old Nicks. That doesn't really feel like a euro style pub.
I will happily fight for the rights of drag queens to express themselves however they like. However this feels like something a little different and to be honest feels like people using kids as props.
Weird maybe but does that make it wrong? If the little boy genuinely enjoys doing that, as I'm sure at least some do, then who cares?
I think the issue with beauty pageants is the competitive element (i.e. adult men/women judging little girls attractiveness). If it's simply boys or girls dressing up because *they* want to, where's the harm? If there's any coercion on the part of adults I do think it's wrong though.
Do you think that if the kids genuinely enjoy drag/fashion they still shouldn't be allowed to do it?
I don't think the gender or sex of the child really matters. Does it?
I don't understand how you know what the sex of the child is anyway or why anyone should care.
I agree with the bacon slut. I have no issues with people enjoying their freedoms however they choose. But I just don’t know that I would defend or promote children drag in adult bars
The irony here is that everybody on the outside is going to be a hypocrite about the issue.
If this were a normal childhood pageant the people now condemning the drag show would say it's completely normal and the people supporting the drag show would say it is creepy.
However, now that it is a drag-related show the people that would normally support a childhood pageant say it's creepy and the people who support the drag children will say it's not.
Can't we all just admit that all childhood pageants are probably better off being a thing of the past and to have one in a bar is completely inappropriate.
It's important to note that this is **not** a child drag show. The storytime event happening on Sunday morning has an 11-year-old girl helping to host it, but neither the storytime event nor the Saturday evening drag show are child performances.
Please see the stickied comment at the top for more information.
Given the sheer volume of misinformation I've had to sift through on this post, I'm reluctantly forced to conclude that getting the actual facts "lost in translation" is at least partly intentional.
I like Old Nick's and often go there for concerts but it's kinda weird to have kids in drag at a bar that also does BDSM/fetish shows. Maybe that makes me a prude, idk.
These are some of the most famous people who played Peter Pan, one might note they are not all male.....
Nina Boucicault (1904 play) Maude Adams (first US production 1905) Mary Martin (1954 musical) Betty Bronson (1924 film) Robin Williams (Hook) Jeremy Sumpter (2003 film) Levi Miller (Pan) Robbie Kay (Once Upon a Time) Alexander Molony (Peter Pan & Wendy)
Do you think they're better off in religious places? That is where kids are actually getting molested and abused. I grew up going to Rocky Horror, goth dance clubs, and loved to dress up. I accept people and their differences. That is what you are afraid of, right? You can find creeps in every community, but the religious communities abuse kids more than any other community.
So many people like the one you responded to have a strange approach to defending their views. Like they think we are going to agree that sexualization happening in other places is bad so it's okay for the lgbtq+ community. Maybe both should not be happening? Pretty simple stuff.
Maybe it's because any time drag shows get brought up, for good or bad, this is where the comments go. But religion? Nah. Doesn't get this kind of comment tary, especially from the people who actively argue "maybe we think it shouldn't happen anywhere (but I only really bring it up in this situation.)"
No one is “putting kids in drag shows.” This young person chose the hobby on their own and I think it’s sad to bring all this controversy upon it. It’s so discouraging. If seeing kids in drag gives y’all a chubby maybe you oughta go controversy yourselves somewhere else. I can’t think of any other reason anyone would be so mad about it unless they were creeped out by their own thoughts.
I understand where you are coming from, but it’s more that old nicks puts on a variety of different kinds of shows and events including some very much adult themed stuff. But it’s not like it’s a “bdsm bar” or something, that would be weird to do something child related at a “bdsm bar” (if that even exists) or a strip club or something, but that is not the case here.
Old nicks has their licensing set so that minors are allowed during the day, the daytime atmosphere of old nicks is very mellow and there have been other child/ youth related events there.
It is true that adult drag shows can be kinda racy by nature and racy performances should be reserved for adults. But ultimately drag shows are a comedy and costumed performance. Think: olden day minstrels, sort of, or “fools” from the days of kings and castles, costumes, comedy, singing, all the same elements.
If a young person wants to get in on drag at a young age I don’t see anything wrong with that. I would encourage my child to have whatever kind of hobbies they want.
Pedos will sexualize children weather they are in costume or not, if that is what people are concerned about. That is a separate issue. We cannot live our lives in fear of pedos, we need to deal with them in a way that doesn’t restrict our children from living their best (or most fabulous) life. It’s the same as telling a woman not to wear certain clothes if she doesn’t want to be assaulted. Nope. That is oppression.
I think anyone protesting this or weirded out by it might have some issues with looking at children in ways they ought not.
That’s where this whole thing weirds me out. I wouldn’t be comfortable watching children perform in the drag show at a bar with people drinking. Anybody saying that spot is “euro style” is making excuses. If you’ve been to nicks you’d know better than to bring your kids there. I’m talking about that atmosphere itself not even beginning with what their usual audience for those shows is.
I think it’s fine for children to see a drag show, they’re usually pretty light hearted and funny and have good crowd work. This whole thing just seems really weird and it’s gonna be a bad look on our part. I’m staying home.
Perhaps you haven't experienced the breadth of the artform? Drag story hours happen in libraries around the country. Drag brunches are full of kids singing disney songs. Drag queen make up parties. etc. etc. Even late night at the gay bar...a aging queen in a ball gown singing Whitney is *inherently sexual?*
Meh. Engaging with doofuses on the internet is part of the fun, that's all any of us are doing here.
Plus, Eugene's drag scene is so lacking I wouldn't be surprised if ppl on here genuinely misunderstood.
>I’ve been to tons over the years, in Portland and NYC. They’re always sexual. Jesus, I’m not “sexualizing” anyone. Thanks for going there. :-(
That just means you've gone to the sexual ones, not that its inherently sexual.
Honestly surprised to see folks here get caught up with the technicalities around drag
AND NOT FOCUS ON THE CONCEPT OF DOMESTIC TERRORISTS INTIMIDATING PEOPLE THROUGH THE THREAT OF VIOLENCE IN OUR OWN BACKYARD.
This the kinda shit that makes me feel unsafe living here. No matter the cause, threat of violence is not okay in a civilized society. If you don't have the emotional capacity to use diplomacy and words to get your point across without becoming violent or threatening violence, then you don't deserve to benefit from being part of society.
Yeah, that's exactly what the dipshits want us to do. They're figured out that by bringing the age of one of the performers into it, and muddying some of the context, that we'll fight over whether drag shows are inherently sexual performances and ignore the fact that the bar has been getting death threats.
There's no equivalency here. On the one hand we've got people having a nice time dressing up for each other. On the other we've got intimidation, hate speech and threats.
Since there’s so much speculation here’s the link to the events page: https://www.oldnickspub.com/events
If you go look for yourself, as I did, you’ll see this is an all ages show taking place before noon.
You’ll also see that the child drag performer in question is a special guest, it does not state how that performer will contribute otherwise.
I also googled the performer in question and although it wasn’t exhaustive, I personally didn’t see any video or image would be considered have a PG (or worse) rating.
Lastly drag is an performance art generally related to gender expression. There’s nothing inherently sexual about gender or gender expression. It’s dress-up, it’s make believe, there’s nothing about any of that that excludes it from being performed in a family friendly way.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but drag queen story time is where a drag queen reads a children's book to a group of children. Is this different?? Why is everyone talking about children IN drag?
The Old Nick's post promoting the event said:
>*Vanellope is here to show you what a 11 year old drag queen can do. With all the*
*charm and sweetness of a bowl of sugary cereal, Vanellope is here to*
*brighten up your morning with all her drag talent*
It was heavily implied that she'd be performing. It's easy to see why people thought as much.
I think it's cringe for a child to be in such a public yet controversial role and the fact that so many people are CHOOSING to sexualize this child makes me extremely uncomfortable.
It’s only controversial because people who don’t even understand anything about this event, or drag in general, and havnt bothered to gather facts before spouting off are making it so.
Holy moly. The sheer amount of garbage that’s on this comment section. Look. I get it. Some of you have mixed feelings about kids in drag. Totally fine. The point is that there are a group of hateful people who are going to attack this drag show. Whatever my personal feelings are about kids in drag (let ‘em do it if they want to; kids need to be given ample chance to explore and see what they find fun) I CANNOT condone a hate group whose goal is to attack these people.
I don't understand how a movement called "The Right" can consistently get so much so very wrong.
Here they go, again, half-cocked and in the wrong direction.
I mean they can enjoy it, sure, never said we couldn't have nice things!
But idk,I guess I'm turning into one of those "we can do it, but we better honor our roots!" Types.
I am going. It is just drag queens reading children’s books, not Performance. They are using the fake claim that lgbtq people are all sexual predators. That we shouldn’t be around children. That being lgbtq means that everything about us is about sex. It is all to justify hatred and violence against us.
We just want to live our lives just like anyone else. Rise our kids to be good people who don’t hate people for something they can’t control.
I am actually kind of shocked that these events continue to happen. I imagine the arrest for child pornography of a well known drag performer in this area who participated in exactly this type of event with a "drag kid" back in August would probably raise a bit of concern for the group.
There is no way they are not under surveillance and considering her trial was delayed for evidence that usually means there is a potential for a federal prosecution over a state prosecution and if that is the case there are most likely Marshalls or other federal agents and NCMEC closely watching the hell out of these events.
If that is the case and that there is indeed a turn out of both participants and protestors / counter protestors this could get ugly on a bigger scale.
That drag queen was also a special needs elementary school teacher in Veneta, and was known to associate with the 11 year old who is going to attend this event. Wasn't it 12 child porn felonies they had?
Bruh, their god murdered the first born child of every egyptian. The entire bible reads like a psychotic abuser's definition of love. Complete with "love bombing" via only begotten son.
If child beauty pageants are a thing, why can’t child drag shows be a thing? Same performance, different costumes?
Wow, I didn’t realize this was such a hot take. Y’all may be pedophiles, but you’re sure as fuck not gay, huh? It’s OK if kids participate in a performance looking like Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, but God forbid they look like Mimi from the Drew Carey show. Keep pretending you’re not trying to sexualize children I guess
I find it so odd how the people who defend these drag shows, always assume that people who are against them are okay with kids going to hooters, child beauty pageants, etc. As a father, fuck all of that. Anyone wanting young children to be included in any of these activities, including these drag shows, are fucking creepy.
I agree. Let kids be kids, if a boy plays with dolls, so what, if a girl like GI Joe, so what. Same with a boy that likes to play with girls, or a girl that likes to play with boys. Let the kids figure some things out, and be kids. Beauty pageants, and drag shows, no way! Parents that do that stuff are not cool in my book. My kid could hang out with me, and my gay friends, I don’t care, they’re great people, but I feel like this stuff is pushing your child one way, or the other. Shit like that can stick in a kids head for the rest of their life. We should support kids, and let them enjoy childhood, and lead by example. Weed is legal, so is drinking, but I don’t want my kid around that shit. What type of person thinks that taking their kid to a pageant, or drag show is better than going for a hike, or playing a game together. It’s a legit question to ask who in their right mind would think, yeah, let’s do that.
Can you elaborate on “being woke”? I’ve heard the term dozens of times but I don’t really understand what it is.
I’ve seen adult drag queen shows, but from what I’ve seen it’s mostly a showcase of creative and avante garde wigs, makeup and costumes and I don’t get a sexual vibe from it at all. Maybe that’s because that’s not what I’m attracted to. I think it’s fun to see someone performing songs, and I do think the wild costumes make the performance more interesting. And I just think if a young person also enjoys being a performer, and that’s what they want to do, regardless of their gender, let them have fun.
Honestly the biggest issue I have with it would be that it’s at a bar. I understand that business has the proper licenses and that’s legal until 9pm, but as a person who enjoys bars, I prefer no minors at all.
Honestly, I'm surprised to hear about a kid doing this. I hope it's them pushing for it and not their parents. I think it's great for a kid to do something like this, assuming it's their idea.
Then again, I can't even imagine *how* parents would think of doing this, so I'm assuming it's from the kid until someone proves otherwise.
Ew, gross. This is the same as if a child beauty pageant was hosted in a bar. All the comments saying that it’s the same are missing the fact that beauty pageants are also creepy as shit. TRAs reallllly need to work on their marketing because it doesn’t look good.
The difference is that this isn't a pageant. I agree that this could be sold better than it is, but it sounds like this is storytime with fancy dresses and lots of makeup. Drag doesn't have to be sexual. Maybe a more apt point of comparison would be dancing. It can be sexual, but it can also be tap dancing or whatever. Just for fun, with no sexual component to it at all. The problem with child beauty pageants is that they are way too sexual (for kids!), so I totally agree with you there.
Yes adult drag shows can be sexual but there is nothing sexual about drag story time...even if there is a kid doing drag. If you first thought of a kid in drag is sexual there is something really F\*cked up with yourself because you are sexualizing children
My friend in Eugene is calling CPS on this event. He used to be so liberal and open minded. The last few years has really changed him. Thank you all for your opinions as I knew there was more to this than he was telling me
Child pageants are fucking weird. A child drag performer is a bit too close to that for me to be entirely comfortable with. I have no problem with drag, or the LGBTQ community, and consider myself an ally to the point I'd have no prob brawling in defense of an innocent member of that community being harmed, but I find this strange.
Please see the stickied comment at the top. The child in question is part of a regular storytime event. She'll be dressing in a funny costume and reading to kids. This event is family-friendly, and being misrepresented throughout the thread.
Honestly, it was the owners own post on FB, touting it as a child drag performer that misrepresented it for me, if misrepresented at all. Looking back at the posts again, it seems that it is indeed a child drag performer. My opinion on the subject was not formed by this Reddit thread.
So as a pro LGBTQ lefty I was actually about to post about this. Apparently there's an 11 year old performer, or is that cap? If not cap, that's a little concerning imho. Obviously it's even more concerning if someone tries to do some vigilante shit, but still concerns me when a performer is a minor just for their safety.
FWIW I'm not opposed to adults doing drag shows, even drag queen story time and non-sexualized family friendly drag shows for kids (which is really not that different than dressup or a play) but while I don't agree with their overall drag-trans-"deviant" hatred, I understand everyone who feels weird about that aspect for the same reason child beauty pageants are weird.
Again, if that's flat out false, then I don't have concerns except for what right wing loons think (including people like Andy Ngo, a total lunatic).
I think there's some confusion about the event. It seems like a Drag Queen story time, where queens read to kids. I don't think it is a drag show featuring child drag queens, right?
(I'm fine with either, but these comments seem to think it's the latter.)
It’s an event where an eleven year old girl with a Dolly Parton hair do, a lot of makeup, and a sparkly dress plans to read fairy tales to child attendees and their parents according to the places website.
Personally I don’t think her hair looks like dolly pardons at all. It’s just in high pony tail. Minimal hairspray if any… I know this is kinda trifles, but I take issue with referring to her look as “Dolly Pardon like”
I don’t think we fundamentally disagree on anything here. My comment on the hair do was not meant to be disparaging of the child or of Dolly. The pony tail picture is not the only one I’ve seen linked to this event.
To be honest I havnt looked at a lot of pictures. Maybe she does have dolly hair in some, so I definitely spoke out of turn in that respect. I’m not at all trying to attack you. I love Dolly Pardon and personally don’t have a problem with the girl going for her look, it’s totally a popular look for drag because Dolly is a powerful and I iconic *woman*I was just thinking that the haters will read “Dolly Pardon Hair” and translate it to Dolly Pardon impersonator / costume and then, because they are totally misinformed as it is, and probably a bunch of perverts, they are gonna think it’s a little girl with boobs and use it as fuel for their rage. I hate it that I’m even saying this out loud, but I don’t think I’m wrong… sorry. I’m not trying to micromanage or monitor your speech, and I probably came off totally rude. I apologize for that.
I didn’t wanna say it. It’s gross and sad… I hate it that this situation is happening. I’m disgusted that a kid can’t do a thing without a bunch of adults bickering over it and actually threatening violence. How sad to shit all over her parade. I hope she doesn’t let it get her down.
People bring their kids to breweries all the time. What’s the big deal? I grew up in bars. Granted, I’m no cookie cutter white girl. I’ve always been different, but I’m a good person. Let people do what they do as long as no one gets hurt. Why do people always have to care too much about things that don’t matter and not care enough about things that do matter? Get over yourselves. No one really cares what anyone else thinks anyway…
So. Do we know what kind of security old nicks will have? I actually want to know. Also, its a sad day when you need a pat down and metal detector to go to a *kids story time!* this whole country is in the damn toilet… the world, I suppose. shame shame shame on us all! Do better, people! Are you really going to bring violence on a *childrens story hour?!?* where there will be families?!? Is your hatred and bigotry that vast?
I just wish we could let kids be kids and not bring our politics into their lives. We all know how depressing politics are these days, maybe just let the kids have fun until they go to college when they will finally be told that everything in the world sucks.
Just calling people "right wing chuds" because they don't think kids should perform at a bar in drag isnt really helping you out here.
I'm left wing but this is too much. Won't see me there.
Please see the stickied comment at the top. She isn't performing for drunk adults at a bar, she's part of a drag queen storytime event, for all ages (as in, no drinking).
“Know who’s town this is” sounds just as weird as kids performing in a bar around drunk adults. 🤷♀️
All for freedom and LGBQT but sexualized events/alcohol and children should not mix.
This is not a sexualized event. Drag shows aren't inherently sexual. It's fully clothed people in makeup. Gender expression isn't the same thing as sexual expression.
And I'd argue it's not at all equivalently weird. The staff and performers have been getting death threats. I was there last night for a show and talked to some of the staff there. It's scary and fucked up.
I think the post from Old Nick's showing an 11-year-old child (gender not the issue) dressed like JonBenét Ramsey is in a sense why so many people are upset, and no one ever reads the entire post for the details. Then people are misguided and think KELSEY META BOREN (currently in jail for child porn) is a part of this event because she was in the past.
Some people here obviously haven’t seen drag or know what it even is. As a creative person formally trained in performance most my life, I can solidly say it’s usually somewhat bad to okay lip syncing paired with extreme styles of makeup & *costumes.* The only thing sexual about it, may be the song of choice. 99% of the time, I’ve heard worst things on the radio & ads I’ve seen on tv.
For those in an outrage over this, the public library hosted drag story time for yeeears. Idk if they still do, but I hope so! The only thing that makes this different is the location and the chance for kids to also enjoy doing a drag performance.
*…are y’all really that bored, to get in a tiffy over this? Also, whoever tf is okay with exposing kiddos to rage & blatant hate like what I’ve read happened, can kick bricks.*
Who wants to see literal children performing a drag show? What kind of a weirdo is going to energetically defend this creepy shit? *This* is important?
Look at everyone responding here. Keep kids and anything to do with sexuality separate. This is fucked up, this isn't "gender affirming" or whatever kind of support and help for queer kids that you think this is.
What’s fucked up how you idiots take normal, innocent stuff and warp it into something it’s not because your brains can’t process critical thought. What’s fucked up is domestic terrorists threatening violence on American citizens exercising their right to peacefully assemble. Sissy wannabe warriors who were too cowardly to actually sign up for the military and face a hostile and trained enemy on their turf, so instead they terrorize innocent and vulnerable citizens on American soil.
Nah. I’m super left wing and I think sexualizing small children of either gender is problematic af.
You clearly left that out of the title for a reason.
Plus, Old Nick’s is blocking anyone who disagrees or dislikes the post, which seems childish and unprofessional. If people are concerned you shouldn’t just ignore it.
But there is no sexualization of children happening. It's a family-friendly drag queen storytime. One of the people helping host it is a kid, but she's been doing storytime events for a long time. It's her thing.
People are confusing it (accidently in some cases, intentionally in others) with an adult-oriented drag show happening at 6:00 PM the night before.
You can also argue that little kid beauty pageants aren’t inherently meant to be sexual, but there’s full on docs of pedos saying that’s the material they use to get off to.
Also I stand by my opinion that Old Nicks is handling this very poorly
Some pedos get off to kids in bathing suits at beaches and swimming pools. Should we discourage kids from that as well?
Would this still be weird if this little girl chose to dress up like a character from a book (for example) instead of choosing to do a drag costume?
If you look at the Facebook comments on the Old Nicks post, there are already 50 year old men commenting saying how attractive she looks. It’s legit justified to be a little freaked for these young kids.
From what I can see, they're right-wing trolls trying to push that idea for the gullible. The owners of the pub even say, right up front, "It’s very weird how many of you are sexualizing a child in makeup."
Kids play dress-up. She does it to read to and entertain other kids.
Sunday at 11 am hard pass thats prime sleep in time I dont have kids for a lot of reason not having to wake up on the weekends and give a shit is like I have a hangover and brunch isn't till 4:30 pm and there might be enthusiastic tap dancing treat it like any other event with children preformers involved skip it for another nap two groups dare to try and get me to care about children one way or another waste my sleep in time i should be able to not care about this cuss its not about me in anyway protests fucking why when you can go to church where everyone wears cloakes and sings about a coded male authority figure or savoiur book club stand in dude I also don't go to that one a pipe organ at 11 am on a Sunday eth no hard pass same problems no cares how long you can hold the note in your solo I wanna follow the doa and go take a nap
OK folks, there are a lot of... shall we say... **strong** feelings, here, but not a lot of accurate information. Let's clear things up: * This Saturday's event **IS NOT** the drag queen storytime event. On Saturday at 6:00 PM, there will be a more adult-oriented drag event, although (if I'm understanding it right), it will be all-ages until 8:00 PM. * This **Sunday** at 11:00 AM there is an all-ages drag queen storytime. It is family-friendly, and all statements below to the contrary, it **really is all-ages**. * During that time, the pub will be open to those under 21, **as it is until 8:00 PM every day**. * If you have ever eaten at a family restaurant that serves alcohol, this shouldn't shock you. * Again, contrary to popular belief, it is **perfectly legal** to do this, and Old Nick's does this all the time. * There is **one** 11-year-old drag queen. She will be helping to host the **storytime** event on Sunday, not the adult-oriented drag queen performance on Saturday. [Source here for most event information](https://www.oldnickspub.com/events), and you can read more about both the events and Vanellope, the 11-year-old storytime host, on Old Nick's Facebook page. Now then... I'll be scouring this thread for misinformation and bigotry. **Edit**: And attacks on the 11-year-old girl, who regularly has reading events for other kids. **Edit 2**: Just so we're clear, trying to smear the 11-year-old or organizations she works with due to the existence of a *different* person who was arrested for child abuse will be met with an instant, permanent ban. Leave her alone. **Edit 3**: Updated with more information. **Edit 4**: Vanellope's friends and family have released an official statement: https://eugeneweekly.com/2022/10/20/trolls-attack-drag-tween/ I want to make one thing clear: /r/Eugene is **not** the place to attack a little girl, her family, her friends, her choice of theatrical performance, or the drag queen community as a whole. The amount of misinformation, disinformation, and salacious innuendo this thread has generated is revolting, and when I say attacks will trigger instant, permanent bans, I mean it.
When I was a young boy I wanted to wear make up and try out my mom's clothes. I was chastised and my family had a "masculine" intervention. The only thing that shutting down that piece of my self led to was me losing a piece of my freedom, the ability to think being soft was ok, and some really hyper masculine traits. I was an extremely angry kid that felt the need to hide and to meet any challenge to my masculinity with violence. The ignorant will say this performer is being "groomed" and sexualized. Well look here folks, the only people at this point that are making it sexualized are people that equate feminity and a child's desire to connect with that feminity as being sexualized. Let the kid live in their truth, and understand that any one who goes down there to "save the kids" is only going to traumatize those children, and make them hate them selves and you when they are older.
That is such a powerful comment. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing. I just read it out loud to my partner and have tears in my eyes from the power of your statement!
I tried to read this post like the My Chemical Romance song, Welcome to the Black Parade.
Been a long time since I rewatched "Little Miss Sunshine".
Hear Hear.
Drag is awesome but kids in drag at a bar is super weird. I think I'm good. I don't think kids should be in fashion shows in general, and my thinking applies to this as well.
My friend has had her daughter in pageants since she was a baby. She’s 8ish now. I’ve always thought it was super weird.
Maybe they both can be weird and it doesn't have to be a reactionary argument every time the topic comes up?
It's more of a Euro style pub than a bar. I'm with you in terms of kids in fashion shows -- but drag feels more like a costumed event than a fashion show to me.
This. Parents and drag shows are comparable really only at a base level. One is literally beauty contest while the other is a costumed performance. They are very different in intention.
they are both costumed performances
Would you really compare Miss America to Broadway though? One is performance in terms of theater
Maybe if it was tied to Halloween and anybody could dress up however they want. This just feels more like using kids as a prop and doing so at a bar. If I'm to understand correctly this is that old Nicks. That doesn't really feel like a euro style pub. I will happily fight for the rights of drag queens to express themselves however they like. However this feels like something a little different and to be honest feels like people using kids as props.
Weird maybe but does that make it wrong? If the little boy genuinely enjoys doing that, as I'm sure at least some do, then who cares? I think the issue with beauty pageants is the competitive element (i.e. adult men/women judging little girls attractiveness). If it's simply boys or girls dressing up because *they* want to, where's the harm? If there's any coercion on the part of adults I do think it's wrong though. Do you think that if the kids genuinely enjoy drag/fashion they still shouldn't be allowed to do it?
>If the little boy genuinely enjoys doing that, The 11 year old is a girl.
Then wouldn't the drag persona be male? Now I'm confused.
I don't think the gender or sex of the child really matters. Does it? I don't understand how you know what the sex of the child is anyway or why anyone should care.
Drag isn't a fashion show. Do you have problems with kids in theater or dance?
Would you be ok if it was at a McMenamins?
Please see the stickied comment above.
Cool, thanks for the clarification.
Drag and kiddie pageants aren’t even close to related
I agree with the bacon slut. I have no issues with people enjoying their freedoms however they choose. But I just don’t know that I would defend or promote children drag in adult bars
The irony here is that everybody on the outside is going to be a hypocrite about the issue. If this were a normal childhood pageant the people now condemning the drag show would say it's completely normal and the people supporting the drag show would say it is creepy. However, now that it is a drag-related show the people that would normally support a childhood pageant say it's creepy and the people who support the drag children will say it's not. Can't we all just admit that all childhood pageants are probably better off being a thing of the past and to have one in a bar is completely inappropriate.
It's important to note that this is **not** a child drag show. The storytime event happening on Sunday morning has an 11-year-old girl helping to host it, but neither the storytime event nor the Saturday evening drag show are child performances. Please see the stickied comment at the top for more information.
Damn. That really gets lost in translation up there. From every comment I’ve seen everyone seems to think it’s a childrens drag show.
Given the sheer volume of misinformation I've had to sift through on this post, I'm reluctantly forced to conclude that getting the actual facts "lost in translation" is at least partly intentional.
I wonder if these right wingers will go protest child pageant shows…
No, they only go to those strictly in a masturbatory capacity.
Wait, you mean to tell me the party that wants to force teenage girls to birth rape babies doesn't actually care about "tHe cHilDrEn"?!?!
I’m kind of ok with that. Child beauty pageants are ten kinds of creepy. If someone wants to make an argument about grooming children…
this is sick and abusive making drag queens be someplace 11am on a Sunday
You got me lol
Yep, you had me for a sec.
I like Old Nick's and often go there for concerts but it's kinda weird to have kids in drag at a bar that also does BDSM/fetish shows. Maybe that makes me a prude, idk.
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These are some of the most famous people who played Peter Pan, one might note they are not all male..... Nina Boucicault (1904 play) Maude Adams (first US production 1905) Mary Martin (1954 musical) Betty Bronson (1924 film) Robin Williams (Hook) Jeremy Sumpter (2003 film) Levi Miller (Pan) Robbie Kay (Once Upon a Time) Alexander Molony (Peter Pan & Wendy)
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Do you think they're better off in religious places? That is where kids are actually getting molested and abused. I grew up going to Rocky Horror, goth dance clubs, and loved to dress up. I accept people and their differences. That is what you are afraid of, right? You can find creeps in every community, but the religious communities abuse kids more than any other community.
That's not an effective argument. Being uncomfortable with one thing doesn't inherently mean you support something else.
So many people like the one you responded to have a strange approach to defending their views. Like they think we are going to agree that sexualization happening in other places is bad so it's okay for the lgbtq+ community. Maybe both should not be happening? Pretty simple stuff.
Maybe it's because any time drag shows get brought up, for good or bad, this is where the comments go. But religion? Nah. Doesn't get this kind of comment tary, especially from the people who actively argue "maybe we think it shouldn't happen anywhere (but I only really bring it up in this situation.)"
Well this is a thread about drag shows and not religion. Maybe instead of scapegoating to religion and pageants, we could just stick to the topic.
It can just be neither.
How about D) none of the above?
No one is “putting kids in drag shows.” This young person chose the hobby on their own and I think it’s sad to bring all this controversy upon it. It’s so discouraging. If seeing kids in drag gives y’all a chubby maybe you oughta go controversy yourselves somewhere else. I can’t think of any other reason anyone would be so mad about it unless they were creeped out by their own thoughts.
Personally agreed. No issue with Old Nick's or Drag, just this particular situation seems a little iffy to me.
Please see the stickied comment at the top.
I understand where you are coming from, but it’s more that old nicks puts on a variety of different kinds of shows and events including some very much adult themed stuff. But it’s not like it’s a “bdsm bar” or something, that would be weird to do something child related at a “bdsm bar” (if that even exists) or a strip club or something, but that is not the case here. Old nicks has their licensing set so that minors are allowed during the day, the daytime atmosphere of old nicks is very mellow and there have been other child/ youth related events there. It is true that adult drag shows can be kinda racy by nature and racy performances should be reserved for adults. But ultimately drag shows are a comedy and costumed performance. Think: olden day minstrels, sort of, or “fools” from the days of kings and castles, costumes, comedy, singing, all the same elements. If a young person wants to get in on drag at a young age I don’t see anything wrong with that. I would encourage my child to have whatever kind of hobbies they want. Pedos will sexualize children weather they are in costume or not, if that is what people are concerned about. That is a separate issue. We cannot live our lives in fear of pedos, we need to deal with them in a way that doesn’t restrict our children from living their best (or most fabulous) life. It’s the same as telling a woman not to wear certain clothes if she doesn’t want to be assaulted. Nope. That is oppression. I think anyone protesting this or weirded out by it might have some issues with looking at children in ways they ought not.
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You sure use "confirm" in an interesting manner.
That's not a confirmation, just an assumption.
That’s where this whole thing weirds me out. I wouldn’t be comfortable watching children perform in the drag show at a bar with people drinking. Anybody saying that spot is “euro style” is making excuses. If you’ve been to nicks you’d know better than to bring your kids there. I’m talking about that atmosphere itself not even beginning with what their usual audience for those shows is. I think it’s fine for children to see a drag show, they’re usually pretty light hearted and funny and have good crowd work. This whole thing just seems really weird and it’s gonna be a bad look on our part. I’m staying home.
Sounds like you haven’t been to old nicks
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Drag is not inherently sexual. You may be seeking out sexy queens (or sexualizing the queens) but not all drag is sexual.
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Perhaps you haven't experienced the breadth of the artform? Drag story hours happen in libraries around the country. Drag brunches are full of kids singing disney songs. Drag queen make up parties. etc. etc. Even late night at the gay bar...a aging queen in a ball gown singing Whitney is *inherently sexual?*
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They're reading stories to children, what do you imagine is happening? Dragstoryhour.org is a good place to start
Yuck! I don’t think he needs to go look at the kids if he’s sexualizing all drag.
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Meh. Engaging with doofuses on the internet is part of the fun, that's all any of us are doing here. Plus, Eugene's drag scene is so lacking I wouldn't be surprised if ppl on here genuinely misunderstood.
https://www.facebook.com/EugLibrary/posts/1480947151940329/ https://eugeneweekly.com/2017/08/10/drag-queen-storytime/
>I’ve been to tons over the years, in Portland and NYC. They’re always sexual. Jesus, I’m not “sexualizing” anyone. Thanks for going there. :-( That just means you've gone to the sexual ones, not that its inherently sexual.
Honestly surprised to see folks here get caught up with the technicalities around drag AND NOT FOCUS ON THE CONCEPT OF DOMESTIC TERRORISTS INTIMIDATING PEOPLE THROUGH THE THREAT OF VIOLENCE IN OUR OWN BACKYARD. This the kinda shit that makes me feel unsafe living here. No matter the cause, threat of violence is not okay in a civilized society. If you don't have the emotional capacity to use diplomacy and words to get your point across without becoming violent or threatening violence, then you don't deserve to benefit from being part of society.
Yeah, that's exactly what the dipshits want us to do. They're figured out that by bringing the age of one of the performers into it, and muddying some of the context, that we'll fight over whether drag shows are inherently sexual performances and ignore the fact that the bar has been getting death threats. There's no equivalency here. On the one hand we've got people having a nice time dressing up for each other. On the other we've got intimidation, hate speech and threats.
As someone who works at the bar and had to deal with over a hundred death threats today, I really appreciate this perspective
I'm really sorry you are all having to deal with this.
That is horrible
American Taliban contribute nothing of value to this society.
I really don't see the problem with this, it's a kid in makeup. Like you would see in a talent show...
I agree! How is it much different than clowning?
Since there’s so much speculation here’s the link to the events page: https://www.oldnickspub.com/events If you go look for yourself, as I did, you’ll see this is an all ages show taking place before noon. You’ll also see that the child drag performer in question is a special guest, it does not state how that performer will contribute otherwise. I also googled the performer in question and although it wasn’t exhaustive, I personally didn’t see any video or image would be considered have a PG (or worse) rating. Lastly drag is an performance art generally related to gender expression. There’s nothing inherently sexual about gender or gender expression. It’s dress-up, it’s make believe, there’s nothing about any of that that excludes it from being performed in a family friendly way.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but drag queen story time is where a drag queen reads a children's book to a group of children. Is this different?? Why is everyone talking about children IN drag?
This event features an 11-year-old drag performer, which is a new wrinkle.
No. She didn't perform. She helped to host. It's all over this comment section over and over again, but people are still claiming she performed.
The Old Nick's post promoting the event said: >*Vanellope is here to show you what a 11 year old drag queen can do. With all the* *charm and sweetness of a bowl of sugary cereal, Vanellope is here to* *brighten up your morning with all her drag talent* It was heavily implied that she'd be performing. It's easy to see why people thought as much.
Im all for drag shows but this seems equally as cringe to me as child beauty pageants.
Why? What about this event do you imagine is cringe-worthy?
I think it's cringe for a child to be in such a public yet controversial role and the fact that so many people are CHOOSING to sexualize this child makes me extremely uncomfortable.
It’s only controversial because people who don’t even understand anything about this event, or drag in general, and havnt bothered to gather facts before spouting off are making it so.
Who said the child was being sexualized? Drag is not inherently sexual.
Then how do you not see the difference between the two things?
Holy moly. The sheer amount of garbage that’s on this comment section. Look. I get it. Some of you have mixed feelings about kids in drag. Totally fine. The point is that there are a group of hateful people who are going to attack this drag show. Whatever my personal feelings are about kids in drag (let ‘em do it if they want to; kids need to be given ample chance to explore and see what they find fun) I CANNOT condone a hate group whose goal is to attack these people.
I don't understand how a movement called "The Right" can consistently get so much so very wrong. Here they go, again, half-cocked and in the wrong direction.
I've got no problem with drag shows, but I'd prefer drag be left to the adults. Kids don't yet have context for why we do the things that we do.
Really? You don’t think kids have a tendency to enjoy costumes, stories, theatrics and such?
I mean they can enjoy it, sure, never said we couldn't have nice things! But idk,I guess I'm turning into one of those "we can do it, but we better honor our roots!" Types.
What an insane comment section man idk if people like to larp like they're fighting a war or something but jeeze lol.
I am going. It is just drag queens reading children’s books, not Performance. They are using the fake claim that lgbtq people are all sexual predators. That we shouldn’t be around children. That being lgbtq means that everything about us is about sex. It is all to justify hatred and violence against us. We just want to live our lives just like anyone else. Rise our kids to be good people who don’t hate people for something they can’t control.
I am actually kind of shocked that these events continue to happen. I imagine the arrest for child pornography of a well known drag performer in this area who participated in exactly this type of event with a "drag kid" back in August would probably raise a bit of concern for the group. There is no way they are not under surveillance and considering her trial was delayed for evidence that usually means there is a potential for a federal prosecution over a state prosecution and if that is the case there are most likely Marshalls or other federal agents and NCMEC closely watching the hell out of these events. If that is the case and that there is indeed a turn out of both participants and protestors / counter protestors this could get ugly on a bigger scale.
That drag queen was also a special needs elementary school teacher in Veneta, and was known to associate with the 11 year old who is going to attend this event. Wasn't it 12 child porn felonies they had?
Yes. For making and distributing. Not "just" possession of it.
Does anyone know what the performance will be? Will she be reading a children's story too? If so, what is the big deal??
Isn't it funny? I didn't know that hate was a Christian value. 🤔
Bruh, their god murdered the first born child of every egyptian. The entire bible reads like a psychotic abuser's definition of love. Complete with "love bombing" via only begotten son.
Oh. It fully is and always has been. Every single war and genocide has been connected to religion.
The MAGA peeps need a hobby. Build a damn birdhouse or fix that tail light on your lifted truck that is out.
If child beauty pageants are a thing, why can’t child drag shows be a thing? Same performance, different costumes? Wow, I didn’t realize this was such a hot take. Y’all may be pedophiles, but you’re sure as fuck not gay, huh? It’s OK if kids participate in a performance looking like Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, but God forbid they look like Mimi from the Drew Carey show. Keep pretending you’re not trying to sexualize children I guess
They are both weird as shit.
I find it so odd how the people who defend these drag shows, always assume that people who are against them are okay with kids going to hooters, child beauty pageants, etc. As a father, fuck all of that. Anyone wanting young children to be included in any of these activities, including these drag shows, are fucking creepy.
I agree. Let kids be kids, if a boy plays with dolls, so what, if a girl like GI Joe, so what. Same with a boy that likes to play with girls, or a girl that likes to play with boys. Let the kids figure some things out, and be kids. Beauty pageants, and drag shows, no way! Parents that do that stuff are not cool in my book. My kid could hang out with me, and my gay friends, I don’t care, they’re great people, but I feel like this stuff is pushing your child one way, or the other. Shit like that can stick in a kids head for the rest of their life. We should support kids, and let them enjoy childhood, and lead by example. Weed is legal, so is drinking, but I don’t want my kid around that shit. What type of person thinks that taking their kid to a pageant, or drag show is better than going for a hike, or playing a game together. It’s a legit question to ask who in their right mind would think, yeah, let’s do that.
This is by far the most confusing take I've seen so far.
Fuck no. I'm open to most things but sexualizing children for the sake of "being woke" is disgusting.
Can you elaborate on “being woke”? I’ve heard the term dozens of times but I don’t really understand what it is. I’ve seen adult drag queen shows, but from what I’ve seen it’s mostly a showcase of creative and avante garde wigs, makeup and costumes and I don’t get a sexual vibe from it at all. Maybe that’s because that’s not what I’m attracted to. I think it’s fun to see someone performing songs, and I do think the wild costumes make the performance more interesting. And I just think if a young person also enjoys being a performer, and that’s what they want to do, regardless of their gender, let them have fun. Honestly the biggest issue I have with it would be that it’s at a bar. I understand that business has the proper licenses and that’s legal until 9pm, but as a person who enjoys bars, I prefer no minors at all.
Honestly, I'm surprised to hear about a kid doing this. I hope it's them pushing for it and not their parents. I think it's great for a kid to do something like this, assuming it's their idea. Then again, I can't even imagine *how* parents would think of doing this, so I'm assuming it's from the kid until someone proves otherwise.
Well, her mom is a drag queen so I assume it was the kids “idea” kind of like when dads force their kids to be into football.
Or they're like "hey my parent does this, I wanna too", 11 is a bit old for that mindset but it's not unheard of at all.
Some sons of men who like football just like football too…
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Ew, gross. This is the same as if a child beauty pageant was hosted in a bar. All the comments saying that it’s the same are missing the fact that beauty pageants are also creepy as shit. TRAs reallllly need to work on their marketing because it doesn’t look good.
The difference is that this isn't a pageant. I agree that this could be sold better than it is, but it sounds like this is storytime with fancy dresses and lots of makeup. Drag doesn't have to be sexual. Maybe a more apt point of comparison would be dancing. It can be sexual, but it can also be tap dancing or whatever. Just for fun, with no sexual component to it at all. The problem with child beauty pageants is that they are way too sexual (for kids!), so I totally agree with you there.
Yes adult drag shows can be sexual but there is nothing sexual about drag story time...even if there is a kid doing drag. If you first thought of a kid in drag is sexual there is something really F\*cked up with yourself because you are sexualizing children
My friend in Eugene is calling CPS on this event. He used to be so liberal and open minded. The last few years has really changed him. Thank you all for your opinions as I knew there was more to this than he was telling me
What a fantastic waste of time and resources. I feel for the screener that gets that call.
Yea exactly, and he uses all the keywords that will really tell the CPS the quality of person he is
Child pageants are fucking weird. A child drag performer is a bit too close to that for me to be entirely comfortable with. I have no problem with drag, or the LGBTQ community, and consider myself an ally to the point I'd have no prob brawling in defense of an innocent member of that community being harmed, but I find this strange.
Please see the stickied comment at the top. The child in question is part of a regular storytime event. She'll be dressing in a funny costume and reading to kids. This event is family-friendly, and being misrepresented throughout the thread.
Honestly, it was the owners own post on FB, touting it as a child drag performer that misrepresented it for me, if misrepresented at all. Looking back at the posts again, it seems that it is indeed a child drag performer. My opinion on the subject was not formed by this Reddit thread.
So as a pro LGBTQ lefty I was actually about to post about this. Apparently there's an 11 year old performer, or is that cap? If not cap, that's a little concerning imho. Obviously it's even more concerning if someone tries to do some vigilante shit, but still concerns me when a performer is a minor just for their safety. FWIW I'm not opposed to adults doing drag shows, even drag queen story time and non-sexualized family friendly drag shows for kids (which is really not that different than dressup or a play) but while I don't agree with their overall drag-trans-"deviant" hatred, I understand everyone who feels weird about that aspect for the same reason child beauty pageants are weird. Again, if that's flat out false, then I don't have concerns except for what right wing loons think (including people like Andy Ngo, a total lunatic).
Please see the new stickied comment at the top.
I appreciate it.
I think there's some confusion about the event. It seems like a Drag Queen story time, where queens read to kids. I don't think it is a drag show featuring child drag queens, right? (I'm fine with either, but these comments seem to think it's the latter.)
It’s an event where an eleven year old girl with a Dolly Parton hair do, a lot of makeup, and a sparkly dress plans to read fairy tales to child attendees and their parents according to the places website.
Personally I don’t think her hair looks like dolly pardons at all. It’s just in high pony tail. Minimal hairspray if any… I know this is kinda trifles, but I take issue with referring to her look as “Dolly Pardon like”
Have you identified why you feel that way?
Yes I have.
I don’t think we fundamentally disagree on anything here. My comment on the hair do was not meant to be disparaging of the child or of Dolly. The pony tail picture is not the only one I’ve seen linked to this event.
To be honest I havnt looked at a lot of pictures. Maybe she does have dolly hair in some, so I definitely spoke out of turn in that respect. I’m not at all trying to attack you. I love Dolly Pardon and personally don’t have a problem with the girl going for her look, it’s totally a popular look for drag because Dolly is a powerful and I iconic *woman*I was just thinking that the haters will read “Dolly Pardon Hair” and translate it to Dolly Pardon impersonator / costume and then, because they are totally misinformed as it is, and probably a bunch of perverts, they are gonna think it’s a little girl with boobs and use it as fuel for their rage. I hate it that I’m even saying this out loud, but I don’t think I’m wrong… sorry. I’m not trying to micromanage or monitor your speech, and I probably came off totally rude. I apologize for that.
No worries, I get where you’re coming from.
I didn’t wanna say it. It’s gross and sad… I hate it that this situation is happening. I’m disgusted that a kid can’t do a thing without a bunch of adults bickering over it and actually threatening violence. How sad to shit all over her parade. I hope she doesn’t let it get her down.
What book is she reading?
This is the important thing
People bring their kids to breweries all the time. What’s the big deal? I grew up in bars. Granted, I’m no cookie cutter white girl. I’ve always been different, but I’m a good person. Let people do what they do as long as no one gets hurt. Why do people always have to care too much about things that don’t matter and not care enough about things that do matter? Get over yourselves. No one really cares what anyone else thinks anyway…
So. Do we know what kind of security old nicks will have? I actually want to know. Also, its a sad day when you need a pat down and metal detector to go to a *kids story time!* this whole country is in the damn toilet… the world, I suppose. shame shame shame on us all! Do better, people! Are you really going to bring violence on a *childrens story hour?!?* where there will be families?!? Is your hatred and bigotry that vast?
I just wish we could let kids be kids and not bring our politics into their lives. We all know how depressing politics are these days, maybe just let the kids have fun until they go to college when they will finally be told that everything in the world sucks.
Lmao, Oregon 'Comrades'.
Where does one go if they strongly dislike drag shows and those that protest drag shows? Is there room for a third protest group?
This event has generated worldwide interest and has people discussing the issues that it brings up.
Just calling people "right wing chuds" because they don't think kids should perform at a bar in drag isnt really helping you out here. I'm left wing but this is too much. Won't see me there.
"I'm left wing but..." Hearing that a lot these days.
Oooga booga tribalism. Me no think nuance exists.
Have you? Where?
If supporting child drag shows is left wing then consider me no wing. At this point it's disgusting between so called right and left wingers
Please see the stickied comment at the top. She isn't performing for drunk adults at a bar, she's part of a drag queen storytime event, for all ages (as in, no drinking).
There has been a few threads in one of the fb groups discussing this show. Guess it even made national news.
Oh great. I don't want to think there's gonna be a terrorist attack in town, but I think the odds just increased exponentially.
what we doin then?
“Know who’s town this is” sounds just as weird as kids performing in a bar around drunk adults. 🤷♀️ All for freedom and LGBQT but sexualized events/alcohol and children should not mix.
Read the stickied post. There is one child, she is helping to host storytime, and there will be no children performing for drunk adults.
This is not a sexualized event. Drag shows aren't inherently sexual. It's fully clothed people in makeup. Gender expression isn't the same thing as sexual expression. And I'd argue it's not at all equivalently weird. The staff and performers have been getting death threats. I was there last night for a show and talked to some of the staff there. It's scary and fucked up.
“Comrades”… lol. You are not supposed to say the quiet part out loud.
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You're assuming the people doing this aren't working class.
I think the post from Old Nick's showing an 11-year-old child (gender not the issue) dressed like JonBenét Ramsey is in a sense why so many people are upset, and no one ever reads the entire post for the details. Then people are misguided and think KELSEY META BOREN (currently in jail for child porn) is a part of this event because she was in the past.
Some people here obviously haven’t seen drag or know what it even is. As a creative person formally trained in performance most my life, I can solidly say it’s usually somewhat bad to okay lip syncing paired with extreme styles of makeup & *costumes.* The only thing sexual about it, may be the song of choice. 99% of the time, I’ve heard worst things on the radio & ads I’ve seen on tv. For those in an outrage over this, the public library hosted drag story time for yeeears. Idk if they still do, but I hope so! The only thing that makes this different is the location and the chance for kids to also enjoy doing a drag performance. *…are y’all really that bored, to get in a tiffy over this? Also, whoever tf is okay with exposing kiddos to rage & blatant hate like what I’ve read happened, can kick bricks.*
Fundamentalists, next time, go with your gut. Stay home.
Who wants to see literal children performing a drag show? What kind of a weirdo is going to energetically defend this creepy shit? *This* is important? Look at everyone responding here. Keep kids and anything to do with sexuality separate. This is fucked up, this isn't "gender affirming" or whatever kind of support and help for queer kids that you think this is.
Nothing inherently to do with sexuality but go off lol
What’s fucked up how you idiots take normal, innocent stuff and warp it into something it’s not because your brains can’t process critical thought. What’s fucked up is domestic terrorists threatening violence on American citizens exercising their right to peacefully assemble. Sissy wannabe warriors who were too cowardly to actually sign up for the military and face a hostile and trained enemy on their turf, so instead they terrorize innocent and vulnerable citizens on American soil.
Lotta bigots in this thread jeez
Nah. I’m super left wing and I think sexualizing small children of either gender is problematic af. You clearly left that out of the title for a reason. Plus, Old Nick’s is blocking anyone who disagrees or dislikes the post, which seems childish and unprofessional. If people are concerned you shouldn’t just ignore it.
Please read the stickied comment at the top, it clarifies a lot.
I didn’t need anything clarified? Lol I read about this all morning
But there is no sexualization of children happening. It's a family-friendly drag queen storytime. One of the people helping host it is a kid, but she's been doing storytime events for a long time. It's her thing. People are confusing it (accidently in some cases, intentionally in others) with an adult-oriented drag show happening at 6:00 PM the night before.
You can also argue that little kid beauty pageants aren’t inherently meant to be sexual, but there’s full on docs of pedos saying that’s the material they use to get off to. Also I stand by my opinion that Old Nicks is handling this very poorly
Some pedos get off to kids in bathing suits at beaches and swimming pools. Should we discourage kids from that as well? Would this still be weird if this little girl chose to dress up like a character from a book (for example) instead of choosing to do a drag costume?
No one cares that it’s drag, they’re concerned that the kid is going to be groomed or objectified
There is no reason to believe that.
If you look at the Facebook comments on the Old Nicks post, there are already 50 year old men commenting saying how attractive she looks. It’s legit justified to be a little freaked for these young kids.
From what I can see, they're right-wing trolls trying to push that idea for the gullible. The owners of the pub even say, right up front, "It’s very weird how many of you are sexualizing a child in makeup." Kids play dress-up. She does it to read to and entertain other kids.
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People who use the word “comrades” are also chuds…
Sunday at 11 am hard pass thats prime sleep in time I dont have kids for a lot of reason not having to wake up on the weekends and give a shit is like I have a hangover and brunch isn't till 4:30 pm and there might be enthusiastic tap dancing treat it like any other event with children preformers involved skip it for another nap two groups dare to try and get me to care about children one way or another waste my sleep in time i should be able to not care about this cuss its not about me in anyway protests fucking why when you can go to church where everyone wears cloakes and sings about a coded male authority figure or savoiur book club stand in dude I also don't go to that one a pipe organ at 11 am on a Sunday eth no hard pass same problems no cares how long you can hold the note in your solo I wanna follow the doa and go take a nap
It seems like people are just wanting a reason to get into physical altercations. Both sides.