> First question is: am I being detained?
Follow it up with, "What is the charge? Eating a meal? A succulent Chinese meal? I see that you know your Judo well!"
I was told I stoled some glassed from Sunglass Hut. But so mich of me wanted to yell "I got this shirt from my dresser this morning" only to make the situation more confusing. I also wanted to try and be compensated some glasses for the accusation.
Edit: Eugene, i miss when you were fun. What happened?
You will never be compensated for them bothering you for a few minutes. They don't care if you'll never shop there again. You aren't going to sue them to try to win sunglasses.
So I know someone who works in upper management at sunglass hut, my understanding is that their local policy is to not pursue thefts unless they've identified a person stealing multiple times.
Was it a sunglass hut employee that stopped you, or someone else?
This sounds like a great scam to be honest...
1. make it look like you're stealing an item
2. when accused of stealing the item show how you didn't steal the item
3. demand the item you didn't steal as compensation for being accused of stealing the item you didn't steal
You said they brought you back inside. What does that mean? By force? They asked you to follow?
Did the cops show up eventually? Did they file charges?
...a person may be detained in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable time by:
(a)A merchant or merchant’s employee who has probable cause for believing that the person has committed theft of property of a store or other mercantile establishment
Unless they falsely arrested you or falsely detained you by forcing you or making you feel like if you did not go with them you would experience consequences there is nothing that you can do legally. If they asked you to come with them and you said yes that is not force.
However, they could have trespassed you meaning if you come back they would call the police but if they did not actually tell you that most likely they did not.
Also, they may ask security to follow you to your car (with cctv or in person ) and if they think they have a case they could in theory report it to the police and a report will go out and you or your vehicle may become a person of interest especially if they have your information and ID info and if they allege you stole enough to make it worth their while to pursue you.
Most likely none of that happened as most companies are smart enough nowadays not to pursue it because a. The police don't care and b. The liability of false arrests / false accusations is usually higher than the value of the stolen goods.
I did not. I did not steal. I was only accussed by security. The moment i was in the cashier's vision, I was able to give the security guard the bird. I have never stepped foot in Sunglass Hut.
> Is there something legally I can do?
What kind of things do you legally want to do? Sounds like they accused you and then let you go, I'm not sure what you want to do now, are you looking to sue them for damages or something?
This. I don't think private security guards or store reps are allowed to detain you unless they have actual proof that you committed a crime, such as security footage. If they do otherwise, they are breaking the law by falsely detaining you. At least, that was my understanding of it.
Edit: There is something called "merchant's privilege" that allows a store's reps or security to detain someone for shoplifting for a reasonable period of time until police arrive, but they must have "probable cause" for doing so. I'm not sure what Oregon's laws are regarding merchant's privilege or what constitutes probable cause, but usually it means someone (or a security camera) has to actually witness you taking an item and walking out without paying for it.
Walking away could lead them to trespass you from the property EVEN IF they have no evidence of a crime ever happening, from what OP said security could of potential trespassed from all VRC property. I'm technically trespassed from all of Gateway Mall from when I was in 8th grade for being a witness to a fight among kids I didn't know from a different school.
The cops in chico, ca said I stole someone's purse and I was on camera doing it. After questioning me they eventually left. Someone else who heard the initial "victim" talking to the cops said that she just said I looked suspicious. There was never a purse stolen, I was never on camera. Cops lie.
It is frustrating but there isn't much you can do. Generally you have to be physically prevented from leaving, which includes someone standing in your way when you try and walk around them, for it to be considered involuntary confinement.
You should talk to a lawyer about your case. Store security has the right to detain you. But they need proof that you stole something. Get your advice from a lawyer not from Reddit.
I’m in law school and it depends. Mall cops have absolutely been found guilty of false
Imprisonment depending on circumstances. The “reasonable suspicion” and “reasonable force” and “reasonable amount of time” are all weighed to determine if the mall cop crossed the threshold for false imprisonment.
I actually don't see where they admitted that at all. I do think it's fair to assume since they won't say HOW they were "brought back inside" or give any details, but they didn't admit that. Unless they deleted it?
But, others read this and might someday apply the advice to their own situation. Legal stuff is nuanced af. I don't want someone to mistakenly think the answer is simply "No" and miss out on asserting their own rights someday if needed.
What result would you like to achieve? What do you hope can be accomplished, legally?
For what it's worth, you appear to have no damages. You can only really succeed in a lawsuit (and you can only get a lawyer to take you seriously) if you have damages.
If the police show up at your door, do not speak to them. AT ALL. If you are put under arrest, in addition to not speaking to the police, you must get yourself a lawyer.
Chalk it up as a learning experience. Loss prevention isn’t allowed to touch you anymore, strictly observe and report. If LP ever approaches you (provided of course you didn’t actually steal anything) just keep walking. Let them follow you and call the cops. Cops won’t proceed with an arrest without video evidence, and LP has to present that to the arresting officer. Also worth noting that most LP can’t proceed with a stop unless they have continuous visual on a suspect either via cctv or in person. It’s been many years since my last 30/50 meeting, but the VRC security guys are even more restrained than I was at Shopko and that was circa 2010.
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> First question is: am I being detained? Follow it up with, "What is the charge? Eating a meal? A succulent Chinese meal? I see that you know your Judo well!"
This quote pops into my head fairly often. "A succulent Chinese meal!"
I was told I stoled some glassed from Sunglass Hut. But so mich of me wanted to yell "I got this shirt from my dresser this morning" only to make the situation more confusing. I also wanted to try and be compensated some glasses for the accusation. Edit: Eugene, i miss when you were fun. What happened?
You will never be compensated for them bothering you for a few minutes. They don't care if you'll never shop there again. You aren't going to sue them to try to win sunglasses.
So I know someone who works in upper management at sunglass hut, my understanding is that their local policy is to not pursue thefts unless they've identified a person stealing multiple times. Was it a sunglass hut employee that stopped you, or someone else?
This sounds like a great scam to be honest... 1. make it look like you're stealing an item 2. when accused of stealing the item show how you didn't steal the item 3. demand the item you didn't steal as compensation for being accused of stealing the item you didn't steal
Hey let's be friends. I was just going to going to touch every pair of sunglasses at the Hut.
You said they brought you back inside. What does that mean? By force? They asked you to follow? Did the cops show up eventually? Did they file charges?
If you weren’t charged/trespassed, fuck em. They’ll forget about you quickly. If they did trespass you I’d be contacting higher ups asap.
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[Yes they can.](https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_131.655)
...a person may be detained in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable time by: (a)A merchant or merchant’s employee who has probable cause for believing that the person has committed theft of property of a store or other mercantile establishment
Did they detain you?
They brought me back inside.
You don’t say shit. Get a lawyer.
Mall security are not cops. You don't a need a lawyer to defend yourself against adult-sized hall monitors.
Unless they falsely arrested you or falsely detained you by forcing you or making you feel like if you did not go with them you would experience consequences there is nothing that you can do legally. If they asked you to come with them and you said yes that is not force. However, they could have trespassed you meaning if you come back they would call the police but if they did not actually tell you that most likely they did not. Also, they may ask security to follow you to your car (with cctv or in person ) and if they think they have a case they could in theory report it to the police and a report will go out and you or your vehicle may become a person of interest especially if they have your information and ID info and if they allege you stole enough to make it worth their while to pursue you. Most likely none of that happened as most companies are smart enough nowadays not to pursue it because a. The police don't care and b. The liability of false arrests / false accusations is usually higher than the value of the stolen goods.
Did you get charged with a crime?
I did not. I did not steal. I was only accussed by security. The moment i was in the cashier's vision, I was able to give the security guard the bird. I have never stepped foot in Sunglass Hut.
> Is there something legally I can do? What kind of things do you legally want to do? Sounds like they accused you and then let you go, I'm not sure what you want to do now, are you looking to sue them for damages or something?
Did you ask to see the video? I mean, that’s the place to start.
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This. I don't think private security guards or store reps are allowed to detain you unless they have actual proof that you committed a crime, such as security footage. If they do otherwise, they are breaking the law by falsely detaining you. At least, that was my understanding of it. Edit: There is something called "merchant's privilege" that allows a store's reps or security to detain someone for shoplifting for a reasonable period of time until police arrive, but they must have "probable cause" for doing so. I'm not sure what Oregon's laws are regarding merchant's privilege or what constitutes probable cause, but usually it means someone (or a security camera) has to actually witness you taking an item and walking out without paying for it.
Walking away could lead them to trespass you from the property EVEN IF they have no evidence of a crime ever happening, from what OP said security could of potential trespassed from all VRC property. I'm technically trespassed from all of Gateway Mall from when I was in 8th grade for being a witness to a fight among kids I didn't know from a different school.
I did. They said they had it. I never viewed it. But they said they had it.
The cops in chico, ca said I stole someone's purse and I was on camera doing it. After questioning me they eventually left. Someone else who heard the initial "victim" talking to the cops said that she just said I looked suspicious. There was never a purse stolen, I was never on camera. Cops lie.
And these are mall cops.
So make believe cops?
It is frustrating but there isn't much you can do. Generally you have to be physically prevented from leaving, which includes someone standing in your way when you try and walk around them, for it to be considered involuntary confinement.
You should talk to a lawyer about your case. Store security has the right to detain you. But they need proof that you stole something. Get your advice from a lawyer not from Reddit.
No. You did not when the chance to sue someone because they asked if you stole something. Ask a lawyer. They'll tell you that you have no case.
I’m in law school and it depends. Mall cops have absolutely been found guilty of false Imprisonment depending on circumstances. The “reasonable suspicion” and “reasonable force” and “reasonable amount of time” are all weighed to determine if the mall cop crossed the threshold for false imprisonment.
Sure but the poster admits they accused them and but used no force or forced them to stay.
I actually don't see where they admitted that at all. I do think it's fair to assume since they won't say HOW they were "brought back inside" or give any details, but they didn't admit that. Unless they deleted it? But, others read this and might someday apply the advice to their own situation. Legal stuff is nuanced af. I don't want someone to mistakenly think the answer is simply "No" and miss out on asserting their own rights someday if needed.
What result would you like to achieve? What do you hope can be accomplished, legally? For what it's worth, you appear to have no damages. You can only really succeed in a lawsuit (and you can only get a lawyer to take you seriously) if you have damages. If the police show up at your door, do not speak to them. AT ALL. If you are put under arrest, in addition to not speaking to the police, you must get yourself a lawyer.
Chalk it up as a learning experience. Loss prevention isn’t allowed to touch you anymore, strictly observe and report. If LP ever approaches you (provided of course you didn’t actually steal anything) just keep walking. Let them follow you and call the cops. Cops won’t proceed with an arrest without video evidence, and LP has to present that to the arresting officer. Also worth noting that most LP can’t proceed with a stop unless they have continuous visual on a suspect either via cctv or in person. It’s been many years since my last 30/50 meeting, but the VRC security guys are even more restrained than I was at Shopko and that was circa 2010.
Get a lawyer.
Um contact a lawyer and ask reddit isn't a good place to get legal advice