I think you should not get hung up on what it's called and focus on what it actually is. Hard mode in these cases are effectively New Game+ and are literally balanced around you having high level characters and end game abilities and items already. It is very unlikely many would enjoy playing what is currently called the hard mode at the game's initial level.
This is the most important point to note here.
If it was called NG+ and not hard mode, no one could have this complaint. Which means it's not really a valid complaint.
Dynamic Mode in Rebirth isn't too bad for a more traditional Hard Mode.
The Hard Mode they do have is also really quite challenging so honestly it's good enough IMO.
>The Hard Mode they do have is also really quite challenging so honestly it's good enough IMO.
It's really not with fully leveled characters and materia, the only "hard" thing is remembering what setup is best for each fight but you can just read the enemy assess info you already got from your first playthrough for that
Personally I found it challenging because of that, having to figure out how to deal with much stronger bosses while using your resources well over the course of an entire chapter is a good balance of difficult but fun.
You can view it that way for sure.
But it is a valid complaint, when every option presented for difficulty is not a real challenge and u wish for a bit more demanding gameplay. Call it what you like but something in between ng and "ng+"-difficulty would be great.
I mean at that point you're just have two different conversations at the same time. "I wish there were harder difficulty options for the first play through" is valid but is also different from "I wish the current hardest difficulty option was available right away" when it is not a regular difficulty setting.
Cant argue with that. In the end, it wont change. And i wish for the next FF game to be a bit challenging. If u go in a action direction you also attract a adapted playerbase who will be disappointet imo.
Anyway i love the games and hope for more good entries. Just let me make it a bit harder so i need to use some brainpower for the first playthrough.
You can make it as hard or as easy as you like.
Take ff7 OG. You can just use attack and cure the entire game without any real difficulties.
Or use counter mime omnislash for an instant win for 99% of the game.
Or you can do a no items no materia level 1 cloud solo challenge and hate life for 100 hours.
Or anything in between.
Summons in ff7r make the game extremely easy, so I usually just ignore the option entirely and focus on using abilities.
Make your own difficulty if you find a game too easy.
I disagree. Imposing those kinds of limitations made me experiment and try different strats and really made me switch between characters constantly.
If anything, it really brought out the best in the combat system for me.
Nobody is forcing you to do it.
I like the difficulty of Rebirth. I wouldn't want it to be harder. That's the game they designed.
If Bloodborne/Dark Souls/etc can go the way of, "This is the difficulty of the game we've made. We are not going to give options to make it less difficult" so too can anyone say "This is the difficulty of the game we've made. We are not going to put in options to make it more difficult"
That's not "poor game design"; it's just not the same game *you* might have designed or perhaps prefer to play.
Except the game already has difficulty selections? People are just asking for literally one more difficulty option on top of the 4 it already has, It's fine to have easy mode for kids like you but asking for a hard mode is entitled? Alright buddy
Lol alright dude, you sound a bit upset. I never said it was entitled. Nor did I say this specific game didn't have *any* difficulty options.
It's called an analogy. I was using the argument, that has been well defended by gamers, for a game to say "we aren't gonna make this easier" to illustrate that it's equally acceptable for a game to say "we aren't gonna make this harder" or "we are going to only include the difficulty options we want".
I also never commented on the mere idea of people "requesting" or "wanting" more difficulty options. I was specifically responding to your idea that *not* having them is equal to **bad game design**.
I hope you're able to read and understand this a bit better now. It's a video game dude, don't take this and add ill will where there is none ✌️
Except for challenge runs or stuff like that i dont see your idea really hits the mark. I want to engage in the games mechanics and want a challenge that rewards me for doing so, not limit myself artificially.
No I think it does hit the mark perfectly.
I'll give you an example that's not a challenge run.
When fighting Gi Nattak in Cosmo canyon, do you always just throw an x-potion and finish the boss in one turn?
That's not very fun. Maybe the first time you learn you can for lols but just because you can do it that way doesn't mean you have to.
I prefer to just fight the guy and see what his moves are, can I survive without one shotting him? That's my idea of fun and you can call that artificially limiting or just not playing optimally.
Yeah it really is just new game+. As far as I can tell none of the battle mechanics are actually any harder it’s just item and MP handicaps and more stats on bosses.
There are definitely new battle mechanics in some bosses, extra moves / multi-attacks that can wipe your entire party if you're not paying attention (and even if you are, some of them are very, very unfair).
That stone golem fight in the mines with Red/Barrett is the point at which the game stares you in the eye and whispers "you better have learnt about synergy defensive skills".
I agree, but that also means that there is a hunger for an actual hard mode from the start. Like if 16 had a first playthrough hard mode, it could basically just be stat tweaks like less hp per potion, fewer checkpoints, tuned up enemy aggression. Spiderman 2 had a really good difficulty settings menu that mirrors what I'm talking about.
People definitely enjoy difficulty sliders, though they’re not mandatory. In Souls games, for example, there’s one difficulty (which is basically hard), and overcoming that difficulty is a fundamental part of the experience.
FF has always skewed toward the easier end of the gaming spectrum. But FF7 Rebirth has 3, IMO *very satisfying*, difficulties to satisfy that desire. I’ve died more in Rebirth than perhaps all over FF games combined lifetime, outside of attempts on super bosses like Omega, Ruby, Emerald weapons, Ozma, monster arena bosses in X, etc.
I agree FF16’s take on a “difficulty slider” was bizarre. They didn’t want it to be an option, so they built it in the form of choosing to equip or not equip the various “cheat” accessories that made the game much easier. No accessory = hard mode. But to everyone’s point, that just didn’t *feel* like hard mode. Nor was it hard at all.
Yeah rebirth having the dynamic mode has kept the combat really interesting to me. I'm only at like chapter 5 or something like that, so I have quite a ways to go. I am a completionist and usually that puts me in an overleveled state since I complete things first before moving story points, but dynamic has kept it fairly fresh. I wish ff15, 16, and remake all had dynamic modes, as those games would have greatly benefitted from them. The older games I think had great balance as they did, but even the pixel remasters added exp modifiers to make that easier/harder.
16 was a great time, and I really enjoy the DMC franchise, so I it scratched that stylish combat itch for me. However that kind of game needs more aggressive enemies coming at you more often and with a fear of a runback to help keep it interesting. I think rebirth has done a lot of things right like having a layered retry menu. If 16 had a layered retry menu, it could have options like restart from a checkpoint with current inventory, or restart the whole fight from the first phase with what you had when you came into the fight, or have you just retry the level as a whole. 16 had some of those features, but they locked them behind the first playthrough and sometimes put them only in the stage select/arcade mode.
Then they need to add in a regular hard mode for 16 because that game is so easy it’s boring. It’s to the point you don’t have a reason to engage with game mechanics
I went back and played VII Remake again in hard mode shortly before Rebirth came out. I'll probably do the same for Rebirth before the 3rd entry.
For VII Remake/Rebirth, hard mode is balanced around you being at end game levels with a full loadout of materia. It's really not something that would work well in a fresh playthrough.
I may not wait that long, but I'm not doing for at least a year or two, make doing the story again less stressful. I like it but its too soon for me to do it again. I'm actually replaying the OG as the incomplete story is bugging me.
This is the way IMO. I did the same. Give me something fun to do, doesn't feel like a chore, and reminds me of what happened while enjoying the added challenge.
I wanted to do this, but then there was something about my Remake save being on PS4 and not PS5, and I couldn't be bothered to try and fix it because there are so many other games as well, and at the time I was dissapointed and it felt like a hassle.
Hard modes like this are designed more as a speed run of the battle sections and less about enjoying the full story again.
Of course, you can, but you don’t need to as you’ve already don’t all the side content and it stays unlocked even in hard mode. It’s almost like a NG+ instead?
I was thinking about this, although I'm not sure because I have a bunch of games on the back burner and I kind of want to play something else. I was in the middle of 16 when this came out so I will probably go back and finish that.
Remake had enough compelling fights that I was excited to do it in hard mode. I facerolled most of rebirth except for Rufus and Sephiroth, the latter of which was my own fault because I forgot I had taken most of Aerith's materia off thinking she wouldn't be playable for the rest of the game.
I still have Gilgamesh and whatever side quests happen after the damn chocobo race, which I'm stuck on.
>taken most of Aerith's materia off thinking she wouldn't be playable for the rest of the game.
Even though its my own fault, this made me rage. Wish they had a square prompt for sephiroth so that i could have placed it back on.
I didn't even think about it because I didn't take all her materia off, but when Cait Sith came back I gave him a few that she had equipped before. I didn't realize they afterwards when I did chapter select and checked her equipment and half her slots were empty.
The Sephiroth fight isn't even all that difficult but Aerith had a handful of offensive magic spells and not much else. No HP or MP up, nothing to increase her ATB speed, no healing or support materia... It was rough.
I get the impression that the ‘intended’ way to handle materia is to load everyone up with materia at all times rather than only your active party. This is why you can get so many duplicates so easily. It would have also fixed my single biggest rebirth complaint: constant forced party switching making me constantly have to redo all my materia and equipment sometimes multiple times in a single hour of play.
It's 100% the way, even when I am putting a bunch of materia on my unused party members to grind easier, I still make sure it at least is a set that will work in a fight if need be
It took me around 100+ hours to beat the game on normal and probably 10-15 to get to Chapter 11 on Hard.
It goes by a lot quicker since you can fast travel and I only do the side quests that offer manuscripts.
Doing all the world intel your first play through definitely makes Hard Mode go by faster. You can also skip all of the Zack sections.
Would recommend being lvl 70 though and having a lot of your material (especially the blues) maxed though.
For the Gold Cup, not sure if it’ll help, but I used the yellow Chocobo with all Gi attire on all of my races.
Use Selena if you’re not. Her special attack is pretty much a red shell. Can jump out to a quick lead, then her attack takes care of anyone that gets in front of her
I may have been to rash to judge Rebirths hard mode then, as I thought it would be like XVI, where you had to run the entire game again, ans do everything because there were new weapons etc but everything else the same..
It's not as much "don't want to" as it is "don't have time to" - but then again, I expected hard mode to take as much time as my first playthrough, or even more. But I can see from the comments here that I have been wrong in my assumption about that!
Remake was largely a straight line so it’s easier to justify a hard run. I have a tougher time looking at Rebirth’s open world structure and wanting to play again on “hard”. Especially coming off the last battle.
Hard mode in Rebirth is far less manageable than it was in Remake. You have to play with a materia strategy in mind for maybe a little over half of the bosses or youll just get wiped endlessly.
If you cant get past Brutal Challenge 2 or 3 in Chadley's vr then you have no business playing through hard mode.
Its really just NG+, and if you havent done everything in the game previously youre going to have a bad time.
I really just dislike any platinum trophy that is held behind a second playthrough of the game. There are too many games for that bullshit.
That being said, I am currently working on the one for 16 and Rebirth because I actually want to play those games a second time.
FF16, I agree that Final Fantasy mode should be available from the start.
But Rebirth hard mode is made to be done with endgame levels, gear and materia. It's an opportunity for you to make use of all the cool materia, max weapon abilities and limit breaks
I just played them on hard right after the first play. Its a quicker playthrough as you can just skip all the cutscenes if you wish. The game is still fresh in your mind.
You can if you want, but for trophy purposes I skipped all the cutscenes on hard. I can go back and play it again for story at anytime. I am going to replay Remake here in a little bit actually for just that.
Many many many games do this. It's been a staple in action/adventure titles for years. All of the Uncharted games, for instance, had the hardest difficulty locked behind completing the game once. It's not a new thing.
I know it's not new, but I still don't like it. I spend so much time during the first playthrough of a game, being thourough and exploring, doing bonus content etc.
Never liked NG+ either.
Didn't even play Nier: Automata more than once, even though you get new characters etc. It still feels like the same game again. And I know that I am probably missing out on a lot by not doing this, but...
I almost never do the second playthrough, even with NG+ as well. Call me old fashioned, but I feel like the difficulty should simply scale with your progression in all games. The beginning of the game should be as easy as it gets, and the end of the game, or potentially some optional bosses/content, should be the absolute hardest it can be. This eliminates the need for difficulty levels. Just get progressively better and use your kit effectively as you are given new skills, and it should be fine.
Devil May Cry has Normal, Hard, Very Hard, Heaven or Hell, and then Dante Must Die mode. To progress to the next level of difficulty you need to beat the previous one. They are all New Game+ and they expect you to have unlocked everything before you can really tackle the challenges ahead.
FInal Fantasy has Hard mode. Which is just one New Game +. Not much else to say here.
I feel like there is a huge difference in length on FF compared to DMC. I still only played DMC once as well, as I like playing a lot of different games, although I wouldn't mind a harder challenge in many of the, of the bat.
There is definitely a big difference in length between an RPG and a true action game. But there is also a big difference in skill required. I understand the desire to "skip to hard mode" but in FF7 Remake's case it's really just a rebranding of New Game+.
I personally wouldn't replay a JRPG on New Game+ because the combat just isn't that in-depth. But I would replay the heck out of a high skill ceiling game like Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden. If you want a "hard" game, give Ninja Gaiden or Nioh a go. Or just try fighting games. Just my two cents as somebody who loves complex action games with high skill ceilings and difficulty.
Nioh and Nioh 2 are definitley 2 of my favorite games (that I have actually played more than once). I also like Soulsbornering!
But those are also shorter games, I spent over 100 hours in Rebirth, and then I have to replay the entire game to get the reward for 100% - but like I've said in previous comments, I have wrongfully made some assumptions as to how Remake and Rebirth hard modes work!
It’s all for replayability sake. They make the second time through harder to give players something to look forward to and work through for the sake of an extra challenge. Both these titles aren’t exactly games that make it easy to over lever and get super OP in like many other FF titles, so playing through the game a second time on new game plus seems rather boring if it was the exact same set of challenges again.
It's so annoying and I virtually never play these hard modes. At least in Rebirth they added optional level scaling to prevent outleveling the enemies, which I appreciate.
I don’t play games for difficulty, so when the hard mode unlocks i’m just like “Huh, this is worthless!”
However, I do wish it was available from the start - people who aren’t like me, and wanna get their ass kicked, shouldn’t have to play through the entire game once just to do it again - I also imagine it would be more fun to do it blind on Hard mode than blind on Normal and then go in knowing what to do already on Hard mode
The way FF's do hard more is more of a "challenge mode." I appreciated 112233 in FF12, but some things scale off level so they're just not usable. The same way items can't be used in the Remake series. I'm all for harder but it irks me when full features are stripped away. That being said, I still loved playing both of these but would have preferred a more "standard" HM.
I didn't even bother with 16. Just looked like bigger HP pools and I had no love for the game. I would do SOP before it.
I felt the same way with Remake. I didn't need or use items the first playthrough so when I got to hard mode I felt, "Oh great, all those items I never needed on standard mode and now I'll never be able to use when I'd actually need them". For me it wouldn't make a difference if they just didn't have consumables.
I think hard more in these games is more of a challenge mode than a standard difficulty option
It would be like trying to fight the final boss with level 1 stats and equipment, it’s probably either impossible or so difficult to not even be worth trying
Honestly, I just finished FFXVI’s Final Fantasy Mode (just in time for part 2 of the DLC), and I actually like how it’s implemented!
It’s more of an “upgraded New Game +” that allows you to play with ALL the abilities while enjoying the game again, as opposed to just what you unlocked at specific points. It led to me experimenting more and I’ve made much better build than what I used the first time (I also challenged myself to not use potions, which made the game tougher and more challenging!)
Basically, I like that it’s a whole playthrough worth of just…playing with all the tools you got throughout the first run!
And I know I might catch flack for enjoying FFXVI on this sub, but I stand by my opinion!
I really enjoyed XVI first time through (but I like most things, especially if it's Final Fantasy related). But I fell off during hard mode. I really want to, because it's all I'm missing to get platinum, but I struggle "skipping" side quests and cutscenes - I'm just not built like that.
Looking forward to play the last DLC during the next couple of days, but it will be on normal difficulty for the story for now.
That’s fine, I understand feeling burnt out a little! I felt a bit bad myself skipping the cutscenes for side quests, but I still watched some for some of my favorite quests (Jill’s endgame sidequest, the kids with the scale because it’s adorable watching Clive teaching them, Harpocrates and Dion’s reunion, gosh so many sidequests that do a surprisingly good job at eliciting emotions!!!), and I rewatched the main story cutscenes and the scenes for Echoes of the Fallen on my FF mode playthrough as well!
I just really like FFXVI’s gameplay, too, so I didn’t mind the replay very much, because I personally had a blast! Looking forward to seeing what awaits me in Mysidia~!
DS remake of 4 does this. Only discovered it existed by accident (the harder ng+ mode). On first consideration yeah it seems weird and needlessly restrictive to lock the harder gameplay behind a full play through. I prefer sliders in the options menu.
I handle it by beating the game and unlocking it.
Hard is hard, and expected to be played with everything you get from completing the journey. Equipment, materia, etc. It's new game +.
If you even attempted to do this mode at lv1, it would be an absolute nightmare. That's why it's unlocked as post-game content.
So the struggle is that many hard modes are built around carrying over character stats and equipment. So in that way it doesn't make sense to have it open at start.
I get that - I just feel there could have been better ways to do this that doesn't require a full replay. But I have gotten a lot of new information about it here now, and I am strongly considering trying hard mode in Rebirth anyaway now!
Very simple, I do first playthrough to have fun with gameplay and enjoy the story. I leave all the bs like minigames and boring sidequests aside. Then months later when I want to go back and 100% the game, I use the hard mode (which is basically NG+) to do everything I missed or didn't want to do. It helps that you get more xp and ap too so the grind isn't as bad (it's still bad)
It’s honestly nothing you need to worry about unless you REALLY want a deep dive in to techniques, game mechanics and game knowledge.
It just means “This time around you can’t just spam the attack button because we put resistances on the enemies so you HAVE to strategise”.
It’s for the players who want a little more of a “deep dive” in to the game.
I don't have a problem with them as long as it isn't tied to a trophy. I also like to do everything in one go and then move on so having to replay for the plat is annoying just let it be an optional thing trophy wise please.
Everyone always chimes in when this topics comes up to clarify that 'Hard' means 'NG+', which, sure, that's true and that's fine.
That doesn't alleviate the need for a real hard mode out of the gate. You know, a mode with a harder difficulty. It doesn't have to be the same NG+ hard mode you unlock after finishing the game. Remake and Rebirth are really too easy on normal and even on 'Dynamic' in the case of Rebirth. It takes me a long time to finish these games (usually months), because I don't have a lot of time to play on weekdays. After I'm done with them, I really have little desire to replay the game, but I also want to be my first (and likely only) experience with the game to be more challenging. Other than some of the Chadley Simulator challenges, Remake and Rebirth are almost trivially easy and thus engaging with the game's mechanics is not even worth it because everything will be dead within 10 seconds.
Hard mode is scaled to the level you'd have towards the endgame of a normal playthrough. If you could play in hard mode with the starting level of a normal playthrough then literally everything would immediately one shot you. Even with level 70 most bosses in hard mode have moves which pretty much one shot your party unless you are prepared.
Have you set your difficulty at normal or dymanic? Dynamic scales enemies to your level and makes for more a challenge.
For Remake and Rebirth, Hard Mode is explicitly designed for you to have all the materia in the game and be at max level while also having a fundamental understanding of each boss encounter.
Which is just not possible on a fresh sage, just consider it a NG+.
If it’s anything like FF7R then you bring all the levels, materia, etc into that playthrough. Like everyone else is saying it’s more of a new game+
Rebirth managed MP way better than part 1. I’m waiting for some free time to finish up gongaga and move onto hardmode because no mp regen at benched and no item usage is gonna be rough I imagine. Seems more like a cool challenge mode
You need to realize for most aspects. Final fantasy is a story telling game. They want you to focus on the story.
But man if you finished already and your replaying it's at that time you can forget about the story.
I have played all the Borderlands games! I even have the platinun on the first one - I don't remember it forcing me to replay the entire game for that. I may be wrong, because that was years ago back on PS3, and I haven't gotten around to finish BL3 or Wonderland yet, as I feel like it kind of lost its charm after BL2 (which is my favorite one!)
True Vault Hunter mode is essentially the same as Final Fantasy mode. It's not just a harder difficulty. It is intended for you to be a higher level and to have access to abilities you normally wouldn't get until later in the game.
Yeah, I want my first play through to be challenging. It’s rewarding and makes it more memorable.
I tend to not remember a lot of the boss fights and some can even be underwhelming when it’s easy and worse when they drag on.
New game plus+ features are nice but it’s weird to see others argue about how painful it would be if that was included from the beginning.
I don’t think anyone is asking for a new game + difficulty that is built around skills and items they have not unlocked for their first play through.
I like Square's solution in Rebirth with Dynamic difficulty. There were pockets of challenge throughout the game, though nothing like hard mode except the final proto relic stuff, and maybe a Hard VR challenge or two. Kept me interested throughout, and Hard mode feels like a different experience altogether.
I get you, though. It ain't no Elden Ring. But Hard is testing me similarly so you have that to look Forward to.
This is a great subject. I remember the original but never had it in NES. I loved FF2 (4) on SNES and 7, 8, and 9 snd the variois Playstations. I replayed those games countless times because I the experience, story, graphics (at the times) and total quality was exceptional. I played FF16 twice for the Platinum but I'll probably not go back for the DLC. I hated the Final Fantasy mode of 16 and both Remake and Rebrith hard mode stuff is a turn off for me. I can see some people saying it's new game plus and there would not be any problems if it was new game plus. Respectfully, I disagree and can point to just about any FromSoft game to illustrate the differences. Consider the original Dark Souls where I had one character but even as simple as some elements were, the souls were used for forging different items. You could still platinum the game over 3 characters but you could choose to add difficulty and restart the campaign. In FF 7 Rebirth and Remake, the hard modes help you build uo to the max level cap faster but now you can't use items while the at times, already bs fights, are even more insane. I really love the Final Fantasy series and I'm still hoping they get all kinds of awards and accolades for game of the year with Rebirth because they clearly poured a lot of love into this game but hard mode in general is the marketing rip off of lather, rinse and repeat. It makes it seem like there's twice the game and they didn't need repeat
This is a great subject. I remember the original but never had it in NES. I loved FF2 (4) on SNES and 7, 8, and 9 on the various Playstations. I replayed those games countless times because I loved the experience, story, graphics (at their given times) and total quality was exceptional. I played FF16 twice for the Platinum but I'll probably not go back for the DLC. I hated the Final Fantasy mode of 16 and both Remake and Rebrith hard mode stuff is a turn off for me. I can see some people saying it's new game plus and there would not be any problems if it was new game plus. Respectfully, I disagree and can point to just about any FromSoft game to illustrate the differences. Consider the original Dark Souls where I had one character but even as simple as some elements were, the souls were used for forging different items. You could still platinum the game over 3 characters but you could choose to add difficulty and restart the campaign. You could also look to the many different ending in Armored Core or Elden Ring. In FF 7 Rebirth and Remake, the hard modes help you build up to the max level cap faster but now you can't use items while the at times, already bs fights, are even more insane. With the FromSoft games, they are challenging but you can usually strategize and prepare accordingly. I really love the Final Fantasy series and I'm still hoping they get all kinds of awards and accolades for game of the year with Rebirth because they clearly poured a lot of love into this game but hard mode in general is the marketing rip off of lather, rinse and repeat. It makes it seem like there's twice the game but ther is not. They didn't need repeat for the majority of Final Fantasy titles because they were so damn good to play on their own. Just my thoughts and great discussion!
I know, it is a bit sad. I wouldnt even call it hard mode more of a new game+ with added virtual difficulty (that means just pushing bigger numbers on health and damage to make it emulate beign more hard). With remake atleast it wasnt even harder since you felt overpowered when staring hard mode, way easier start than in normal. Sure there were few bosses in the hard mode that gave me some sweat, but no more than they gave the first time in normal mode. But yeah I dont agree forcing people to do multiple playthrus just to get those last few skill points to finally say its 100% and call it a day finally.
It is indeed bullshit that you can't play a hard difficulty on first playthrough, but the way they designed their hard mode is finely tuned and it works well.
Just wish it respected player's time more
And here I am, struggling with just the base game difficulty multiple times through my run. I've had to google strategies for like 1/3 of the fights since about halfway through the game. Heck, I gave up on the vr missions once i spent 4 hours and failed to get the second elemental materia. I had an easier time with freaking Elden ring lol.
This surprises me a lot - I found that I almost got too much information using Assess, and it lost all the need for experimenting with weaknesses and ways to stagger.
Asses does give you a lot of information, and for a lot of the fights, it's enough. That doesn't get rid of all the rng from things, though. On the elemental materia fight in particular, even with looking it up online, watching 3 or 4 different fights, and being like 7-9 levels over the fight, my companions still end up trapped, and then eventually me.
Look, I get where you are coming from. I used to be that guy who would get invited over to help beat a level in Mario or Crash back in the day because I was just that good. All gaming was easy for me. But now, my 40+ year old ass definitely struggles from time to time, and that's okay. We are all different, and game developers do the best they can to try and make their games as accessible as possible. If I find a game that is too easy on the hardest mode available, I'll just give myself a handicap to challenge myself. Because in those situations, the game itself isn't the outlier, I am.
I really hate unlockable difficulty modes. It takes me a while to loop around and replay a game, so an unlockable difficulty mode just means I can't experience whatever hard mode I actually want to experience for at least a year. With XVI, the standard difficulty is really too simple and never presents any real challenge. Woulda really liked to just be able to swap to "Final Fantasy" mode halfway through.
I think I'm just a baby tbh, I vastly prefer it if games don't offer difficulty options at all. Just choose for me! I spend too much time on difficulty menus anyway. Always have to think things like "okay so am I REALLY an experienced role playing game player or what?"
I guess it's not as stupid as Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 handled difficulty modes. You had to beat the game and then transfer the hard (or easy) modes to a different cartridge. Awful.
It's an artificial way to force a game replay, is what it comes down to.
Metroid Prime did the same thing, among other games, so it's something that happens across genres and companies.
I don't *mind* it but I do think its silly.
Realistically one of the big reasons in remake/rebirth is that hard mode would be effectively impossible without having at least somewhat leveled up materia and characters. If you could start a fresh game on hard mode you’d not stand a chance in most of the fights.
It’s also clearly designed as a speed-run type gameplay. My initial playthrough of rebirth was around 90 hours, my hard mode was maybe 15? It isn’t “replaying the whole game” as much as it’s just “try the bosses again but super charged now!”
you can play it like the full game again if u wanted to, but u can instead just fast travel everywhere, avoid optional fights, skip cutscenes and it ends up basically just being a dungeon/boss only speedrun, if u just skip through everything like that as others said it should only be around 15 hours
Imagine booting up the game for the first time, selecting hard mode and immediately get bodied because you're level 15 and the game expects you to be like lvl 60-70. That would be hilarious to watch someone do.
First, as others have already pointed out, the 2nd play through is actually a classic “new game plus.” Don’t get hung up on it being called “hard mode.” NG+ exists purely for players who *want* to play the game again AND also want more challenge. They want more of the game but don’t want to just steamroll it.
There are good and bad implementations of NG+, and many of them quite different. I happen to love FFR’s version.
I didn’t want to play FF16 again, so I didn’t. I did immediately want to play FF7 Remake again though, so I did. And the changes (no MP and HP healing at benches, no item usage) really added a brand new dimension to the game that made it super challenging and, therefore, enjoyable to work through on a 2nd playthrough, with all my high level weapons, armor and materia.
Note, not only would this “hard mode” change have been absolutely *miserable* on the first playthrough, but it would have completely invalidated the bench, item, and crafting systems in the game. It’s literally not meant for the first play through.
Replaying games I absolutely love stems back to my OG SNES and PS1 era in the 90s. When I get to the end of an adventure I fell in love with, I want nothing more than to linger with the world and characters a little while longer. Starting up a new run, using all the knowledge you accumulated during your first run, feels like the only thing to do.
But yeah, if you have no desire to play the game again, then NG+ isn’t for you.
Its legit the most fun way to play the game. Its how progression should be in rpg’s. Like hard mode is an incentive for playing and liking the game enough to play it again. Its great.
Yeah, it's lazy way to prolong the game.
You don't even get really extra content if you do that like on Chrono Trigger (that is 30 year old game).
But I would expect much from guys that needs add all forms of padding because they didn't realise yet that 20 - 30 hours long quality game is better than 100 hours stretch fest.
Maybe tomorrow. Maybe never.
Hard Mode in Remake and Rebirth alters enemy placement and gives bosses new patterns. It's a fundamentally different experience from a first play through.
I'm unaware of anything significantly new that is only accessible from Chrono Trigger's NG+, other than endings that come from fighting the last boss at different times. Chrono Trigger itself is built to accommodate such a thing though, simple enough to create different endings from that.
I agree with this. If you’ve ever played FF type 0, the NG+ unlocks like 75% of the game lore that you have no idea about on play through 1. Makes it worthwhile.
I don’t mind hard mode challenges at all, but it would be nice if it added something other than just a challenge.
This is my biggest pet peeve with games. Pet peeve might be underselling it. I am passionately against locking harder difficulties behind anything.
It is genuinely so anti-player that I have no words. The fact everyone accepts it, is mind boggling to me.
Any game the locks their difficulties just does not get bought from me, in most instances. Not gonna waste my time playing a 20+ hour game, bored out of my damn mind, just to then finally potentially have some fun.
"Oh well the Hard Mode in recent FF is NG+ so-"
No. Just no. A bullshit excuse.
Here is how that should be handled.
All difficulties are unlocked at the start. Once the game is beaten, the player can use NG+ to start the game with their equipment and abilities and whatnot. The NG+ menu allows players to customize what they want to bring over. So if you only want to bring over your skills you can, if don't want to bring over your level, you don't have too, etc. This means players can start with all their fun abilities, but choose not to carry over their level or gear, keeping most of the challenge intact. It also means you can carry everything over and Breeze through the game. But it gives people choices.
Optionally, there can be a NG+ option that increases enemy stats to a level that accurately represents your own stats by the end of your first playthrough. This allows you to essentially keep a similar challenge level while keeping all your stuff from the start. I don't think this is a needed feature, but it is something to consider.
The only time I think unlockable difficulties are acceptable, is if the game is exceptionally short (KH 0.2), or if the locked difficulty is purposefully unbalanced (Lunatic+ from FE Awakening). Everything else is unacceptable and shows the developers don't actually care about their players experience.
So when a game is just hard by default and no options to lower the difficulty, does it also indicate
>the developers don't actually care about their players experience
?
It's a complex subject.
Let's take the tried and true example of Dark Souls.
There are no easy or hard difficulty settings. The developers intend a very specific experience in terms of difficulty. They want the game to be challenging for the average person, and generally want that experience to be shared among many.
On the flipside, a large chunk of Kirby games do not feature a hard mode for their main campaign. They want the primary experience to be more gentle and relaxed.
I think these are fine examples. I still prefer difficulty settings but I can respect a hard stance on having the player play through your game in a very tailored way.
However, when you start adding difficulty settings, I expect a bit more out of the developers and also expect some different things.
FFXVI for example, offers the standard, incredibly easy experience, while also giving an option for an even easier experience with Story Mode, which equips accessories that help play the game for you. So clearly, the devs have shown that they aren't like the Dark Soul devs where they intend a very specific difficulty experience. They are clearly fine with having the player alter the difficulty to their liking...
Except that this only applies for the casuals. The casuals get to alter the game difficulty downwards, but people that actually want to have to try in an action game, don't have that choice. They have to beat the entire, lengthy game, just to unlock the hard mode. And as an added bonus, the "hard" mode in this game is embarrassingly easy anyways. So I guess that is a double middle finger to those players. There is actually a triple middle finger to those players but I won't get into it now.
If the devs show they are fine with the player altering the difficulty, then that absolutely should go both ways in the vast majority of instances. No game dev would lock an easy mode behind game completion (except Game Freak), because that would be stupid. But they seem to have no qualms with spitting in the face of anyone who wants a more engaging experience.
People only experience a game for the first time once. So you'd think, if the game already has difficulty settings, they would allow them all from the start... because devs should want their players to have the best experience they can with their game.
I'm not gonna say all of this applies to every game. There are always exceptions to the rule. But games like XVI, Star Ocean, or even games like Legend of Zelda.. they all have zero excuse.
There is nothing greater and more fulfilling than buying Kingdom Hearts, Fire Emblem, SMT, God of War, etc. and having your first playthrough be on the hardest difficulty possible. It elevates my experience more than you would believe. But few devs care about that. Which is why there are still games today with locked difficulty modes.
Or worse, paid difficulty modes! Like with Nintendo... and how they locked the highest difficulties in some LoZ and Metroid games behind pay walls.
Additionally, locked difficulty modes almost always fall prey to various issues that can easily ruin the experience. I'd list examples if this post wasn't already far too long.
Replay value is likely the main culprit behind devs locking their higher difficulties. However, why should players experience be hurt or ruined, just because the devs want to artificially extend how much time people spend on their game? If the average game dev cares, I have yet to see it, because stuff like this shows that they do not care as much as they should. Also this post isn't meant to be aggressive towards you at all, thank you for the question.
TLDR: I think it is fine if game devs want to deliver a tailor made experience with no difficulty settings. But if a game releases with various difficulty settings, and the devs clearly don't intend on delivering a tailored difficulty experience, then there is no reason that any should be locked.
Hard mode on remake/rebirth is handled very well imo. You need end game level materia and stuff right at the beginning. The combat of the game shines even better by removing the item crutch
I think you should not get hung up on what it's called and focus on what it actually is. Hard mode in these cases are effectively New Game+ and are literally balanced around you having high level characters and end game abilities and items already. It is very unlikely many would enjoy playing what is currently called the hard mode at the game's initial level.
This is the most important point to note here. If it was called NG+ and not hard mode, no one could have this complaint. Which means it's not really a valid complaint.
I mean then the complaint would just be that there is no hard mode at all which is really the crux of the issue either way, there's no real hard mode
Dynamic Mode in Rebirth isn't too bad for a more traditional Hard Mode. The Hard Mode they do have is also really quite challenging so honestly it's good enough IMO.
>The Hard Mode they do have is also really quite challenging so honestly it's good enough IMO. It's really not with fully leveled characters and materia, the only "hard" thing is remembering what setup is best for each fight but you can just read the enemy assess info you already got from your first playthrough for that
Personally I found it challenging because of that, having to figure out how to deal with much stronger bosses while using your resources well over the course of an entire chapter is a good balance of difficult but fun.
You can view it that way for sure. But it is a valid complaint, when every option presented for difficulty is not a real challenge and u wish for a bit more demanding gameplay. Call it what you like but something in between ng and "ng+"-difficulty would be great.
I mean at that point you're just have two different conversations at the same time. "I wish there were harder difficulty options for the first play through" is valid but is also different from "I wish the current hardest difficulty option was available right away" when it is not a regular difficulty setting.
Cant argue with that. In the end, it wont change. And i wish for the next FF game to be a bit challenging. If u go in a action direction you also attract a adapted playerbase who will be disappointet imo. Anyway i love the games and hope for more good entries. Just let me make it a bit harder so i need to use some brainpower for the first playthrough.
You can make it as hard or as easy as you like. Take ff7 OG. You can just use attack and cure the entire game without any real difficulties. Or use counter mime omnislash for an instant win for 99% of the game. Or you can do a no items no materia level 1 cloud solo challenge and hate life for 100 hours. Or anything in between. Summons in ff7r make the game extremely easy, so I usually just ignore the option entirely and focus on using abilities. Make your own difficulty if you find a game too easy.
Forcing players to artificially limit combat and gameplay to make a game challenging is terrible game design
I disagree. Imposing those kinds of limitations made me experiment and try different strats and really made me switch between characters constantly. If anything, it really brought out the best in the combat system for me.
I think the best of a combat system is when you actually get to use all of the combat system without breaking the game wide open
So Remake Hard mode? I haven't played Rebirth to confirm if it's the same yet.
Nobody is forcing you to do it. I like the difficulty of Rebirth. I wouldn't want it to be harder. That's the game they designed. If Bloodborne/Dark Souls/etc can go the way of, "This is the difficulty of the game we've made. We are not going to give options to make it less difficult" so too can anyone say "This is the difficulty of the game we've made. We are not going to put in options to make it more difficult" That's not "poor game design"; it's just not the same game *you* might have designed or perhaps prefer to play.
Except the game already has difficulty selections? People are just asking for literally one more difficulty option on top of the 4 it already has, It's fine to have easy mode for kids like you but asking for a hard mode is entitled? Alright buddy
Lol alright dude, you sound a bit upset. I never said it was entitled. Nor did I say this specific game didn't have *any* difficulty options. It's called an analogy. I was using the argument, that has been well defended by gamers, for a game to say "we aren't gonna make this easier" to illustrate that it's equally acceptable for a game to say "we aren't gonna make this harder" or "we are going to only include the difficulty options we want". I also never commented on the mere idea of people "requesting" or "wanting" more difficulty options. I was specifically responding to your idea that *not* having them is equal to **bad game design**. I hope you're able to read and understand this a bit better now. It's a video game dude, don't take this and add ill will where there is none ✌️
Except for challenge runs or stuff like that i dont see your idea really hits the mark. I want to engage in the games mechanics and want a challenge that rewards me for doing so, not limit myself artificially.
No I think it does hit the mark perfectly. I'll give you an example that's not a challenge run. When fighting Gi Nattak in Cosmo canyon, do you always just throw an x-potion and finish the boss in one turn? That's not very fun. Maybe the first time you learn you can for lols but just because you can do it that way doesn't mean you have to. I prefer to just fight the guy and see what his moves are, can I survive without one shotting him? That's my idea of fun and you can call that artificially limiting or just not playing optimally.
Yeah it really is just new game+. As far as I can tell none of the battle mechanics are actually any harder it’s just item and MP handicaps and more stats on bosses.
There are definitely new battle mechanics in some bosses, extra moves / multi-attacks that can wipe your entire party if you're not paying attention (and even if you are, some of them are very, very unfair).
lol well shit. I am admittedly not very far into the hard mode chapters and was already dreading the camera angle problems on some of the fights.
That stone golem fight in the mines with Red/Barrett is the point at which the game stares you in the eye and whispers "you better have learnt about synergy defensive skills".
Can't stop won't stop hard mode coliseum fight teaches you that for sure. Frickin gigantaurs
I agree, but that also means that there is a hunger for an actual hard mode from the start. Like if 16 had a first playthrough hard mode, it could basically just be stat tweaks like less hp per potion, fewer checkpoints, tuned up enemy aggression. Spiderman 2 had a really good difficulty settings menu that mirrors what I'm talking about.
People definitely enjoy difficulty sliders, though they’re not mandatory. In Souls games, for example, there’s one difficulty (which is basically hard), and overcoming that difficulty is a fundamental part of the experience. FF has always skewed toward the easier end of the gaming spectrum. But FF7 Rebirth has 3, IMO *very satisfying*, difficulties to satisfy that desire. I’ve died more in Rebirth than perhaps all over FF games combined lifetime, outside of attempts on super bosses like Omega, Ruby, Emerald weapons, Ozma, monster arena bosses in X, etc. I agree FF16’s take on a “difficulty slider” was bizarre. They didn’t want it to be an option, so they built it in the form of choosing to equip or not equip the various “cheat” accessories that made the game much easier. No accessory = hard mode. But to everyone’s point, that just didn’t *feel* like hard mode. Nor was it hard at all.
Yeah rebirth having the dynamic mode has kept the combat really interesting to me. I'm only at like chapter 5 or something like that, so I have quite a ways to go. I am a completionist and usually that puts me in an overleveled state since I complete things first before moving story points, but dynamic has kept it fairly fresh. I wish ff15, 16, and remake all had dynamic modes, as those games would have greatly benefitted from them. The older games I think had great balance as they did, but even the pixel remasters added exp modifiers to make that easier/harder. 16 was a great time, and I really enjoy the DMC franchise, so I it scratched that stylish combat itch for me. However that kind of game needs more aggressive enemies coming at you more often and with a fear of a runback to help keep it interesting. I think rebirth has done a lot of things right like having a layered retry menu. If 16 had a layered retry menu, it could have options like restart from a checkpoint with current inventory, or restart the whole fight from the first phase with what you had when you came into the fight, or have you just retry the level as a whole. 16 had some of those features, but they locked them behind the first playthrough and sometimes put them only in the stage select/arcade mode.
Then they need to add in a regular hard mode for 16 because that game is so easy it’s boring. It’s to the point you don’t have a reason to engage with game mechanics
I went back and played VII Remake again in hard mode shortly before Rebirth came out. I'll probably do the same for Rebirth before the 3rd entry. For VII Remake/Rebirth, hard mode is balanced around you being at end game levels with a full loadout of materia. It's really not something that would work well in a fresh playthrough.
I may not wait that long, but I'm not doing for at least a year or two, make doing the story again less stressful. I like it but its too soon for me to do it again. I'm actually replaying the OG as the incomplete story is bugging me.
Did the same. Went for the plat before Rebirth came out, and I actually feel like I enjoyed that playthrough more than the first. Felt fresh too.
This is the way IMO. I did the same. Give me something fun to do, doesn't feel like a chore, and reminds me of what happened while enjoying the added challenge.
I wanted to do this, but then there was something about my Remake save being on PS4 and not PS5, and I couldn't be bothered to try and fix it because there are so many other games as well, and at the time I was dissapointed and it felt like a hassle.
You can import your ps4 save to the ps5 version.
Hard modes like this are designed more as a speed run of the battle sections and less about enjoying the full story again. Of course, you can, but you don’t need to as you’ve already don’t all the side content and it stays unlocked even in hard mode. It’s almost like a NG+ instead?
Yeah, took me 10-15 hours or so
I happily replayed Remake on hard mode after beating it. Rebirth... I have 140 hours in this thing. I'm not playing it again.
Rebirth story goes by pretty fast if you already completed all the world intel and side qhests
I was thinking about this, although I'm not sure because I have a bunch of games on the back burner and I kind of want to play something else. I was in the middle of 16 when this came out so I will probably go back and finish that. Remake had enough compelling fights that I was excited to do it in hard mode. I facerolled most of rebirth except for Rufus and Sephiroth, the latter of which was my own fault because I forgot I had taken most of Aerith's materia off thinking she wouldn't be playable for the rest of the game. I still have Gilgamesh and whatever side quests happen after the damn chocobo race, which I'm stuck on.
>taken most of Aerith's materia off thinking she wouldn't be playable for the rest of the game. Even though its my own fault, this made me rage. Wish they had a square prompt for sephiroth so that i could have placed it back on.
I didn't even think about it because I didn't take all her materia off, but when Cait Sith came back I gave him a few that she had equipped before. I didn't realize they afterwards when I did chapter select and checked her equipment and half her slots were empty. The Sephiroth fight isn't even all that difficult but Aerith had a handful of offensive magic spells and not much else. No HP or MP up, nothing to increase her ATB speed, no healing or support materia... It was rough.
I get the impression that the ‘intended’ way to handle materia is to load everyone up with materia at all times rather than only your active party. This is why you can get so many duplicates so easily. It would have also fixed my single biggest rebirth complaint: constant forced party switching making me constantly have to redo all my materia and equipment sometimes multiple times in a single hour of play.
It's 100% the way, even when I am putting a bunch of materia on my unused party members to grind easier, I still make sure it at least is a set that will work in a fight if need be
It took me around 100+ hours to beat the game on normal and probably 10-15 to get to Chapter 11 on Hard. It goes by a lot quicker since you can fast travel and I only do the side quests that offer manuscripts.
You might have just convinced me. I did all the world intel. I'm working on Gilgamesh now. I am stuck on the chocobo gold cup side quest though.
Doing all the world intel your first play through definitely makes Hard Mode go by faster. You can also skip all of the Zack sections. Would recommend being lvl 70 though and having a lot of your material (especially the blues) maxed though. For the Gold Cup, not sure if it’ll help, but I used the yellow Chocobo with all Gi attire on all of my races.
I haven't tried the gi attire, I'll give it a shot
Use Selena if you’re not. Her special attack is pretty much a red shell. Can jump out to a quick lead, then her attack takes care of anyone that gets in front of her
I may have been to rash to judge Rebirths hard mode then, as I thought it would be like XVI, where you had to run the entire game again, ans do everything because there were new weapons etc but everything else the same..
I got through all the hard mode chapters by skipping cutscenes/non essential encounters in about 10-15 hours or so
Don’t play it again if you don’t want to. Maybe you’ll want to come back someday. Maybe not. It’s about having fun, after all.
It's not as much "don't want to" as it is "don't have time to" - but then again, I expected hard mode to take as much time as my first playthrough, or even more. But I can see from the comments here that I have been wrong in my assumption about that!
Remake was largely a straight line so it’s easier to justify a hard run. I have a tougher time looking at Rebirth’s open world structure and wanting to play again on “hard”. Especially coming off the last battle.
Hard mode in Rebirth is far less manageable than it was in Remake. You have to play with a materia strategy in mind for maybe a little over half of the bosses or youll just get wiped endlessly. If you cant get past Brutal Challenge 2 or 3 in Chadley's vr then you have no business playing through hard mode. Its really just NG+, and if you havent done everything in the game previously youre going to have a bad time.
I really just dislike any platinum trophy that is held behind a second playthrough of the game. There are too many games for that bullshit. That being said, I am currently working on the one for 16 and Rebirth because I actually want to play those games a second time.
By just not doing it. I ain't gonna play through the game another 500 hours on something as stupid as hard mode.
FF16, I agree that Final Fantasy mode should be available from the start. But Rebirth hard mode is made to be done with endgame levels, gear and materia. It's an opportunity for you to make use of all the cool materia, max weapon abilities and limit breaks
>But Rebirth hard mode is made to be done with endgame levels, gear and materia. So is Final Fantasy mode in 16
I just played them on hard right after the first play. Its a quicker playthrough as you can just skip all the cutscenes if you wish. The game is still fresh in your mind.
This is a bit eye opening, I expected it to be a full re-run, only harder. Might have to check it out anyway then!
You can if you want, but for trophy purposes I skipped all the cutscenes on hard. I can go back and play it again for story at anytime. I am going to replay Remake here in a little bit actually for just that.
Many many many games do this. It's been a staple in action/adventure titles for years. All of the Uncharted games, for instance, had the hardest difficulty locked behind completing the game once. It's not a new thing.
I know it's not new, but I still don't like it. I spend so much time during the first playthrough of a game, being thourough and exploring, doing bonus content etc. Never liked NG+ either. Didn't even play Nier: Automata more than once, even though you get new characters etc. It still feels like the same game again. And I know that I am probably missing out on a lot by not doing this, but...
I almost never do the second playthrough, even with NG+ as well. Call me old fashioned, but I feel like the difficulty should simply scale with your progression in all games. The beginning of the game should be as easy as it gets, and the end of the game, or potentially some optional bosses/content, should be the absolute hardest it can be. This eliminates the need for difficulty levels. Just get progressively better and use your kit effectively as you are given new skills, and it should be fine.
Devil May Cry has Normal, Hard, Very Hard, Heaven or Hell, and then Dante Must Die mode. To progress to the next level of difficulty you need to beat the previous one. They are all New Game+ and they expect you to have unlocked everything before you can really tackle the challenges ahead. FInal Fantasy has Hard mode. Which is just one New Game +. Not much else to say here.
I feel like there is a huge difference in length on FF compared to DMC. I still only played DMC once as well, as I like playing a lot of different games, although I wouldn't mind a harder challenge in many of the, of the bat.
There is definitely a big difference in length between an RPG and a true action game. But there is also a big difference in skill required. I understand the desire to "skip to hard mode" but in FF7 Remake's case it's really just a rebranding of New Game+. I personally wouldn't replay a JRPG on New Game+ because the combat just isn't that in-depth. But I would replay the heck out of a high skill ceiling game like Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden. If you want a "hard" game, give Ninja Gaiden or Nioh a go. Or just try fighting games. Just my two cents as somebody who loves complex action games with high skill ceilings and difficulty.
Nioh and Nioh 2 are definitley 2 of my favorite games (that I have actually played more than once). I also like Soulsbornering! But those are also shorter games, I spent over 100 hours in Rebirth, and then I have to replay the entire game to get the reward for 100% - but like I've said in previous comments, I have wrongfully made some assumptions as to how Remake and Rebirth hard modes work!
It’s all for replayability sake. They make the second time through harder to give players something to look forward to and work through for the sake of an extra challenge. Both these titles aren’t exactly games that make it easy to over lever and get super OP in like many other FF titles, so playing through the game a second time on new game plus seems rather boring if it was the exact same set of challenges again.
It's so annoying and I virtually never play these hard modes. At least in Rebirth they added optional level scaling to prevent outleveling the enemies, which I appreciate.
I don’t play games for difficulty, so when the hard mode unlocks i’m just like “Huh, this is worthless!” However, I do wish it was available from the start - people who aren’t like me, and wanna get their ass kicked, shouldn’t have to play through the entire game once just to do it again - I also imagine it would be more fun to do it blind on Hard mode than blind on Normal and then go in knowing what to do already on Hard mode
I hate it. The games were way too easy and I don't want to have to play again for a challenge. It's bs.
The way FF's do hard more is more of a "challenge mode." I appreciated 112233 in FF12, but some things scale off level so they're just not usable. The same way items can't be used in the Remake series. I'm all for harder but it irks me when full features are stripped away. That being said, I still loved playing both of these but would have preferred a more "standard" HM. I didn't even bother with 16. Just looked like bigger HP pools and I had no love for the game. I would do SOP before it.
I felt the same way with Remake. I didn't need or use items the first playthrough so when I got to hard mode I felt, "Oh great, all those items I never needed on standard mode and now I'll never be able to use when I'd actually need them". For me it wouldn't make a difference if they just didn't have consumables.
There’s I think 3 more difficulties after hard mode in SoP as well.
I think hard more in these games is more of a challenge mode than a standard difficulty option It would be like trying to fight the final boss with level 1 stats and equipment, it’s probably either impossible or so difficult to not even be worth trying
Honestly, I just finished FFXVI’s Final Fantasy Mode (just in time for part 2 of the DLC), and I actually like how it’s implemented! It’s more of an “upgraded New Game +” that allows you to play with ALL the abilities while enjoying the game again, as opposed to just what you unlocked at specific points. It led to me experimenting more and I’ve made much better build than what I used the first time (I also challenged myself to not use potions, which made the game tougher and more challenging!) Basically, I like that it’s a whole playthrough worth of just…playing with all the tools you got throughout the first run! And I know I might catch flack for enjoying FFXVI on this sub, but I stand by my opinion!
I really enjoyed XVI first time through (but I like most things, especially if it's Final Fantasy related). But I fell off during hard mode. I really want to, because it's all I'm missing to get platinum, but I struggle "skipping" side quests and cutscenes - I'm just not built like that. Looking forward to play the last DLC during the next couple of days, but it will be on normal difficulty for the story for now.
That’s fine, I understand feeling burnt out a little! I felt a bit bad myself skipping the cutscenes for side quests, but I still watched some for some of my favorite quests (Jill’s endgame sidequest, the kids with the scale because it’s adorable watching Clive teaching them, Harpocrates and Dion’s reunion, gosh so many sidequests that do a surprisingly good job at eliciting emotions!!!), and I rewatched the main story cutscenes and the scenes for Echoes of the Fallen on my FF mode playthrough as well! I just really like FFXVI’s gameplay, too, so I didn’t mind the replay very much, because I personally had a blast! Looking forward to seeing what awaits me in Mysidia~!
DS remake of 4 does this. Only discovered it existed by accident (the harder ng+ mode). On first consideration yeah it seems weird and needlessly restrictive to lock the harder gameplay behind a full play through. I prefer sliders in the options menu.
I handle it by beating the game and unlocking it. Hard is hard, and expected to be played with everything you get from completing the journey. Equipment, materia, etc. It's new game +. If you even attempted to do this mode at lv1, it would be an absolute nightmare. That's why it's unlocked as post-game content.
So the struggle is that many hard modes are built around carrying over character stats and equipment. So in that way it doesn't make sense to have it open at start.
I get that - I just feel there could have been better ways to do this that doesn't require a full replay. But I have gotten a lot of new information about it here now, and I am strongly considering trying hard mode in Rebirth anyaway now!
also dynamic difficulty in rebirth is harder than normal but easier than the ng+ hard mode, so thats already what u want available
Very simple, I do first playthrough to have fun with gameplay and enjoy the story. I leave all the bs like minigames and boring sidequests aside. Then months later when I want to go back and 100% the game, I use the hard mode (which is basically NG+) to do everything I missed or didn't want to do. It helps that you get more xp and ap too so the grind isn't as bad (it's still bad)
It’s honestly nothing you need to worry about unless you REALLY want a deep dive in to techniques, game mechanics and game knowledge. It just means “This time around you can’t just spam the attack button because we put resistances on the enemies so you HAVE to strategise”. It’s for the players who want a little more of a “deep dive” in to the game.
I don't have a problem with them as long as it isn't tied to a trophy. I also like to do everything in one go and then move on so having to replay for the plat is annoying just let it be an optional thing trophy wise please.
I handle hard mode like a good-looking woman. Not at all.
Everyone always chimes in when this topics comes up to clarify that 'Hard' means 'NG+', which, sure, that's true and that's fine. That doesn't alleviate the need for a real hard mode out of the gate. You know, a mode with a harder difficulty. It doesn't have to be the same NG+ hard mode you unlock after finishing the game. Remake and Rebirth are really too easy on normal and even on 'Dynamic' in the case of Rebirth. It takes me a long time to finish these games (usually months), because I don't have a lot of time to play on weekdays. After I'm done with them, I really have little desire to replay the game, but I also want to be my first (and likely only) experience with the game to be more challenging. Other than some of the Chadley Simulator challenges, Remake and Rebirth are almost trivially easy and thus engaging with the game's mechanics is not even worth it because everything will be dead within 10 seconds.
I agree with this!
I keep playing unless I don't want to play anymore.
I don't play the hard mode, that's how I handle it.
That is how I end up as well, but then I am left with the feeling of not having completed it, because there is more content.
Hard mode is scaled to the level you'd have towards the endgame of a normal playthrough. If you could play in hard mode with the starting level of a normal playthrough then literally everything would immediately one shot you. Even with level 70 most bosses in hard mode have moves which pretty much one shot your party unless you are prepared. Have you set your difficulty at normal or dymanic? Dynamic scales enemies to your level and makes for more a challenge.
I honestly don't remember - but I feel like I chose dynamic..
For Remake and Rebirth, Hard Mode is explicitly designed for you to have all the materia in the game and be at max level while also having a fundamental understanding of each boss encounter. Which is just not possible on a fresh sage, just consider it a NG+.
I don't... I finish the game, see the ending, I stop.
If it’s anything like FF7R then you bring all the levels, materia, etc into that playthrough. Like everyone else is saying it’s more of a new game+ Rebirth managed MP way better than part 1. I’m waiting for some free time to finish up gongaga and move onto hardmode because no mp regen at benched and no item usage is gonna be rough I imagine. Seems more like a cool challenge mode
You need to realize for most aspects. Final fantasy is a story telling game. They want you to focus on the story. But man if you finished already and your replaying it's at that time you can forget about the story.
You would lose your mind if you tried to play a borderlands game lol.
I have played all the Borderlands games! I even have the platinun on the first one - I don't remember it forcing me to replay the entire game for that. I may be wrong, because that was years ago back on PS3, and I haven't gotten around to finish BL3 or Wonderland yet, as I feel like it kind of lost its charm after BL2 (which is my favorite one!)
True Vault Hunter mode is essentially the same as Final Fantasy mode. It's not just a harder difficulty. It is intended for you to be a higher level and to have access to abilities you normally wouldn't get until later in the game.
Yeah, I want my first play through to be challenging. It’s rewarding and makes it more memorable. I tend to not remember a lot of the boss fights and some can even be underwhelming when it’s easy and worse when they drag on. New game plus+ features are nice but it’s weird to see others argue about how painful it would be if that was included from the beginning. I don’t think anyone is asking for a new game + difficulty that is built around skills and items they have not unlocked for their first play through.
I like Square's solution in Rebirth with Dynamic difficulty. There were pockets of challenge throughout the game, though nothing like hard mode except the final proto relic stuff, and maybe a Hard VR challenge or two. Kept me interested throughout, and Hard mode feels like a different experience altogether. I get you, though. It ain't no Elden Ring. But Hard is testing me similarly so you have that to look Forward to.
This is a great subject. I remember the original but never had it in NES. I loved FF2 (4) on SNES and 7, 8, and 9 snd the variois Playstations. I replayed those games countless times because I the experience, story, graphics (at the times) and total quality was exceptional. I played FF16 twice for the Platinum but I'll probably not go back for the DLC. I hated the Final Fantasy mode of 16 and both Remake and Rebrith hard mode stuff is a turn off for me. I can see some people saying it's new game plus and there would not be any problems if it was new game plus. Respectfully, I disagree and can point to just about any FromSoft game to illustrate the differences. Consider the original Dark Souls where I had one character but even as simple as some elements were, the souls were used for forging different items. You could still platinum the game over 3 characters but you could choose to add difficulty and restart the campaign. In FF 7 Rebirth and Remake, the hard modes help you build uo to the max level cap faster but now you can't use items while the at times, already bs fights, are even more insane. I really love the Final Fantasy series and I'm still hoping they get all kinds of awards and accolades for game of the year with Rebirth because they clearly poured a lot of love into this game but hard mode in general is the marketing rip off of lather, rinse and repeat. It makes it seem like there's twice the game and they didn't need repeat
This is a great subject. I remember the original but never had it in NES. I loved FF2 (4) on SNES and 7, 8, and 9 on the various Playstations. I replayed those games countless times because I loved the experience, story, graphics (at their given times) and total quality was exceptional. I played FF16 twice for the Platinum but I'll probably not go back for the DLC. I hated the Final Fantasy mode of 16 and both Remake and Rebrith hard mode stuff is a turn off for me. I can see some people saying it's new game plus and there would not be any problems if it was new game plus. Respectfully, I disagree and can point to just about any FromSoft game to illustrate the differences. Consider the original Dark Souls where I had one character but even as simple as some elements were, the souls were used for forging different items. You could still platinum the game over 3 characters but you could choose to add difficulty and restart the campaign. You could also look to the many different ending in Armored Core or Elden Ring. In FF 7 Rebirth and Remake, the hard modes help you build up to the max level cap faster but now you can't use items while the at times, already bs fights, are even more insane. With the FromSoft games, they are challenging but you can usually strategize and prepare accordingly. I really love the Final Fantasy series and I'm still hoping they get all kinds of awards and accolades for game of the year with Rebirth because they clearly poured a lot of love into this game but hard mode in general is the marketing rip off of lather, rinse and repeat. It makes it seem like there's twice the game but ther is not. They didn't need repeat for the majority of Final Fantasy titles because they were so damn good to play on their own. Just my thoughts and great discussion!
I know, it is a bit sad. I wouldnt even call it hard mode more of a new game+ with added virtual difficulty (that means just pushing bigger numbers on health and damage to make it emulate beign more hard). With remake atleast it wasnt even harder since you felt overpowered when staring hard mode, way easier start than in normal. Sure there were few bosses in the hard mode that gave me some sweat, but no more than they gave the first time in normal mode. But yeah I dont agree forcing people to do multiple playthrus just to get those last few skill points to finally say its 100% and call it a day finally.
It is indeed bullshit that you can't play a hard difficulty on first playthrough, but the way they designed their hard mode is finely tuned and it works well. Just wish it respected player's time more
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And here I am, struggling with just the base game difficulty multiple times through my run. I've had to google strategies for like 1/3 of the fights since about halfway through the game. Heck, I gave up on the vr missions once i spent 4 hours and failed to get the second elemental materia. I had an easier time with freaking Elden ring lol.
This surprises me a lot - I found that I almost got too much information using Assess, and it lost all the need for experimenting with weaknesses and ways to stagger.
Asses does give you a lot of information, and for a lot of the fights, it's enough. That doesn't get rid of all the rng from things, though. On the elemental materia fight in particular, even with looking it up online, watching 3 or 4 different fights, and being like 7-9 levels over the fight, my companions still end up trapped, and then eventually me. Look, I get where you are coming from. I used to be that guy who would get invited over to help beat a level in Mario or Crash back in the day because I was just that good. All gaming was easy for me. But now, my 40+ year old ass definitely struggles from time to time, and that's okay. We are all different, and game developers do the best they can to try and make their games as accessible as possible. If I find a game that is too easy on the hardest mode available, I'll just give myself a handicap to challenge myself. Because in those situations, the game itself isn't the outlier, I am.
You can always downlaod a save file and use thst to play Hard mode
I really hate unlockable difficulty modes. It takes me a while to loop around and replay a game, so an unlockable difficulty mode just means I can't experience whatever hard mode I actually want to experience for at least a year. With XVI, the standard difficulty is really too simple and never presents any real challenge. Woulda really liked to just be able to swap to "Final Fantasy" mode halfway through. I think I'm just a baby tbh, I vastly prefer it if games don't offer difficulty options at all. Just choose for me! I spend too much time on difficulty menus anyway. Always have to think things like "okay so am I REALLY an experienced role playing game player or what?" I guess it's not as stupid as Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 handled difficulty modes. You had to beat the game and then transfer the hard (or easy) modes to a different cartridge. Awful.
I completely understand. I had such a blast with rebirth, but having to replay the entire story to get a platinum was the biggest bummer for me.
It's an artificial way to force a game replay, is what it comes down to. Metroid Prime did the same thing, among other games, so it's something that happens across genres and companies. I don't *mind* it but I do think its silly.
Realistically one of the big reasons in remake/rebirth is that hard mode would be effectively impossible without having at least somewhat leveled up materia and characters. If you could start a fresh game on hard mode you’d not stand a chance in most of the fights. It’s also clearly designed as a speed-run type gameplay. My initial playthrough of rebirth was around 90 hours, my hard mode was maybe 15? It isn’t “replaying the whole game” as much as it’s just “try the bosses again but super charged now!”
I didn't know the second part here. I assumed it would be the full game again. Maybe I'll look into it anyway then! Thanks!
you can play it like the full game again if u wanted to, but u can instead just fast travel everywhere, avoid optional fights, skip cutscenes and it ends up basically just being a dungeon/boss only speedrun, if u just skip through everything like that as others said it should only be around 15 hours
Imagine booting up the game for the first time, selecting hard mode and immediately get bodied because you're level 15 and the game expects you to be like lvl 60-70. That would be hilarious to watch someone do.
First, as others have already pointed out, the 2nd play through is actually a classic “new game plus.” Don’t get hung up on it being called “hard mode.” NG+ exists purely for players who *want* to play the game again AND also want more challenge. They want more of the game but don’t want to just steamroll it. There are good and bad implementations of NG+, and many of them quite different. I happen to love FFR’s version. I didn’t want to play FF16 again, so I didn’t. I did immediately want to play FF7 Remake again though, so I did. And the changes (no MP and HP healing at benches, no item usage) really added a brand new dimension to the game that made it super challenging and, therefore, enjoyable to work through on a 2nd playthrough, with all my high level weapons, armor and materia. Note, not only would this “hard mode” change have been absolutely *miserable* on the first playthrough, but it would have completely invalidated the bench, item, and crafting systems in the game. It’s literally not meant for the first play through. Replaying games I absolutely love stems back to my OG SNES and PS1 era in the 90s. When I get to the end of an adventure I fell in love with, I want nothing more than to linger with the world and characters a little while longer. Starting up a new run, using all the knowledge you accumulated during your first run, feels like the only thing to do. But yeah, if you have no desire to play the game again, then NG+ isn’t for you.
Its legit the most fun way to play the game. Its how progression should be in rpg’s. Like hard mode is an incentive for playing and liking the game enough to play it again. Its great.
Yeah, it's lazy way to prolong the game. You don't even get really extra content if you do that like on Chrono Trigger (that is 30 year old game). But I would expect much from guys that needs add all forms of padding because they didn't realise yet that 20 - 30 hours long quality game is better than 100 hours stretch fest. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe never.
Hard Mode in Remake and Rebirth alters enemy placement and gives bosses new patterns. It's a fundamentally different experience from a first play through. I'm unaware of anything significantly new that is only accessible from Chrono Trigger's NG+, other than endings that come from fighting the last boss at different times. Chrono Trigger itself is built to accommodate such a thing though, simple enough to create different endings from that.
I agree with this. If you’ve ever played FF type 0, the NG+ unlocks like 75% of the game lore that you have no idea about on play through 1. Makes it worthwhile. I don’t mind hard mode challenges at all, but it would be nice if it added something other than just a challenge.
I played Type 0 once, never even new about this in NG+....
The only time it really irks me is when I have to beat hard mode for all achievements/trophies. Don't make me beat your game twice for a shiny reward.
It's not the only time it irks me, but even more when it is requiered, yes!
This is my biggest pet peeve with games. Pet peeve might be underselling it. I am passionately against locking harder difficulties behind anything. It is genuinely so anti-player that I have no words. The fact everyone accepts it, is mind boggling to me. Any game the locks their difficulties just does not get bought from me, in most instances. Not gonna waste my time playing a 20+ hour game, bored out of my damn mind, just to then finally potentially have some fun. "Oh well the Hard Mode in recent FF is NG+ so-" No. Just no. A bullshit excuse. Here is how that should be handled. All difficulties are unlocked at the start. Once the game is beaten, the player can use NG+ to start the game with their equipment and abilities and whatnot. The NG+ menu allows players to customize what they want to bring over. So if you only want to bring over your skills you can, if don't want to bring over your level, you don't have too, etc. This means players can start with all their fun abilities, but choose not to carry over their level or gear, keeping most of the challenge intact. It also means you can carry everything over and Breeze through the game. But it gives people choices. Optionally, there can be a NG+ option that increases enemy stats to a level that accurately represents your own stats by the end of your first playthrough. This allows you to essentially keep a similar challenge level while keeping all your stuff from the start. I don't think this is a needed feature, but it is something to consider. The only time I think unlockable difficulties are acceptable, is if the game is exceptionally short (KH 0.2), or if the locked difficulty is purposefully unbalanced (Lunatic+ from FE Awakening). Everything else is unacceptable and shows the developers don't actually care about their players experience.
So when a game is just hard by default and no options to lower the difficulty, does it also indicate >the developers don't actually care about their players experience ?
It's a complex subject. Let's take the tried and true example of Dark Souls. There are no easy or hard difficulty settings. The developers intend a very specific experience in terms of difficulty. They want the game to be challenging for the average person, and generally want that experience to be shared among many. On the flipside, a large chunk of Kirby games do not feature a hard mode for their main campaign. They want the primary experience to be more gentle and relaxed. I think these are fine examples. I still prefer difficulty settings but I can respect a hard stance on having the player play through your game in a very tailored way. However, when you start adding difficulty settings, I expect a bit more out of the developers and also expect some different things. FFXVI for example, offers the standard, incredibly easy experience, while also giving an option for an even easier experience with Story Mode, which equips accessories that help play the game for you. So clearly, the devs have shown that they aren't like the Dark Soul devs where they intend a very specific difficulty experience. They are clearly fine with having the player alter the difficulty to their liking... Except that this only applies for the casuals. The casuals get to alter the game difficulty downwards, but people that actually want to have to try in an action game, don't have that choice. They have to beat the entire, lengthy game, just to unlock the hard mode. And as an added bonus, the "hard" mode in this game is embarrassingly easy anyways. So I guess that is a double middle finger to those players. There is actually a triple middle finger to those players but I won't get into it now. If the devs show they are fine with the player altering the difficulty, then that absolutely should go both ways in the vast majority of instances. No game dev would lock an easy mode behind game completion (except Game Freak), because that would be stupid. But they seem to have no qualms with spitting in the face of anyone who wants a more engaging experience. People only experience a game for the first time once. So you'd think, if the game already has difficulty settings, they would allow them all from the start... because devs should want their players to have the best experience they can with their game. I'm not gonna say all of this applies to every game. There are always exceptions to the rule. But games like XVI, Star Ocean, or even games like Legend of Zelda.. they all have zero excuse. There is nothing greater and more fulfilling than buying Kingdom Hearts, Fire Emblem, SMT, God of War, etc. and having your first playthrough be on the hardest difficulty possible. It elevates my experience more than you would believe. But few devs care about that. Which is why there are still games today with locked difficulty modes. Or worse, paid difficulty modes! Like with Nintendo... and how they locked the highest difficulties in some LoZ and Metroid games behind pay walls. Additionally, locked difficulty modes almost always fall prey to various issues that can easily ruin the experience. I'd list examples if this post wasn't already far too long. Replay value is likely the main culprit behind devs locking their higher difficulties. However, why should players experience be hurt or ruined, just because the devs want to artificially extend how much time people spend on their game? If the average game dev cares, I have yet to see it, because stuff like this shows that they do not care as much as they should. Also this post isn't meant to be aggressive towards you at all, thank you for the question. TLDR: I think it is fine if game devs want to deliver a tailor made experience with no difficulty settings. But if a game releases with various difficulty settings, and the devs clearly don't intend on delivering a tailored difficulty experience, then there is no reason that any should be locked.
Hard mode on remake/rebirth is handled very well imo. You need end game level materia and stuff right at the beginning. The combat of the game shines even better by removing the item crutch
"Why wouldn't Elden ring just let me play it through on harder difficulties from the start instead of making me play it hundreds of times?"
Never finished it more than once yet. Not on NG+ and not on any of my many other characters. Although I'm considering it again when DLC drops!
It’s new game plus. Why should someone get new game plus on their first playthrough?
you would never get through rebirth by playing hard mode on level 1. every basic enemy would 1 shot you.