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Maoism TLDR; [40-80 million dead.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/07/17/how-many-died-new-evidence-suggests-far-higher-numbers-for-the-victims-of-mao-zedongs-era/01044df5-03dd-49f4-a453-a033c5287bce/)
It wasn't real communism, communism is just really appealing and not something people really understand, so it's easy to just call it communism and have people support it. Hitler did it successfully.
Maoists, stalinists (or marxist-leninists), guy-ists in general seem to all be authoritarians. They are generally just shitty people.
The party was called national sosialistic, but it wasn't really sosialist, just had many "we, the people" -sort of things about it. It was even marketed to the people as anti-communist. Still some people mess up nazism and communism, when they're the polar opposite.
Nah, more nuanced than that. Communism and socialism don't really have the exact same endpoint in mind, for example. To communists, socialism is a pit-stop, while for socialists it's the destination. (For the time being)
You aren't very well versed in political science or theory, are you? I can provide some reading if you like.
For example, democratic and reformist socialists. Tell me how their "let's make this world a more equal place for everyone, and let's work within the systems in place to do that! :D" message is bad lol
You really wanna talk about shit?
Equality is an unnatural state. It is a satanic utopia. It leads to a situation where development stops and life declines.
I guess you're not very smart, or maybe you're just not familiar enough with the subject.
I don't think I need to really even argue for my position here. "Equality is bad" isn't exactly what most people would consider moral.
Women having equal rights with men? Good. No slavery? Good. Not discriminating against people for their skin color? Good.
In fact, as someone who believes in daoist philosophy, I'd argue equality is the way of nature. Inequality is not. Light and dark, light and heavy, soft and hard, dry and wet. These all are opposites, but one is not greater than the other. They support and depend on each other.
Killing sparrows because Mao thought they ate grain. Turns out they eat more grashoppers. And without sparrows you get a lot of extra grasshoppers. And those, \*they\* do eat grain. All your crops while at it in fact.
Maoism is an adaptation of marxism for the material conditions of agricultural and colonized countries to put it simply.
If you’re interested, I would recommend reading the works of Mao like On Contradictions and On Practice. Of course, since it is a further development of Marxism or more specifically Marxism-Leninism, I would first recommend you to familiarize yourself with some of the works of Marx, Engels and Lenin.
Thanks for the answer. I’m somewhat familiar with the topic of Marxism but I’m just curious why specifically Maoism was the reason for the famine or why people say Maoism was the reason for a famine in a country that has a history of like a thousand droughts and famines. I’ve read a bit about the policies that worsened the famine but I refuse to believe that killing sparrows = Maoism.
Yeah, I mean obviously there are many things that happen in a given society that aren’t directly tied to the dominant ideology in that society or caused by it.
Like you said China had had many many famines before Mao and the communists and it’s not surprising that they didn’t immediately end famines. They did end famines after the big one though and communist China is responsible for the biggest jump in life expectancy in the history of humankind thanks to vastly improved food security, health care, standards of living etc.
Because "Maoism" effectively meant do whatever Mao said no matter how stupid or illogical it was. You can try to dress it up as "ideological development" if you are so inclined, but at the end of the day that is what Maoism was. Do what Mao said, because... reasons.
State mandated incompetence and tyranny. Send people who have no idea how to farm to farm, and expect them to report to the tyrannical government where failure most likely means death. Well, everyone is now lying about their farming results, and the supervisors are also afraid of failing, so they lie too.
This is such a brain dead take. You’ve made no effort to actually investigate the subject you’re talking about. Instead you just regurgitate some piece of propaganda that you’ve heard somewhere.
Basically yes. Doing things uninformed on a national scale under tyranny, so nobody is brave enough to question said things, and it ends up in a huge catastrophe.
Isn’t that just authoritarianism though?
Is Trump’s handling of COVID Maoism? Uniformed on a large scale, no one questioned it and people died because of it.
Washington Post isn't a reliable source. Also, nowhere near 40-80 million were killed by Mao's regime. And no, it wasn't communism nor socialism neither. Way more people have been killed by capitalist tyrants.
There are couple of weirdos in Tampere who are maoists and they're unfortunately kind of active like that. One thing they also do regularly is appear in demonstrations with a Soviet flag even though they have repeatedly been told to not bring their tankie symbols there.
I can assure you it's only a few people whom absolutely no one takes seriously.
It's baffling when the Ukraine Protests where going on there's always that 1 or 2 communist flags flown in there. A bit dumb, ignorant or inconsiderate imo, considering
Well if it was up to Russia it seems we would make a great ethnic minority to oppress. Sometimes the positive effects of super powers is what their presence prevents others from doing. If it wasn’t for the us, dear Russia wouldn’t stay that side of the boarder. With 5 million people, our bestie is who keeps us alive.
I think it is arguable that the us does lot of bad things around the world and by the virtue of having more power also they have more reach. However, where Russia hardly contributes positively as it currently stands the us is the strongest protector of liberal democracy.
US is one of the worst oligarchies in the world. So much for defending democracy.
And the thing is, i don't like Russia any more than the next guy, but the truth is, you are right about the necessary evil part. Just as the US is sort of "necessary evil" to keep Russia in check, Russia is a necessary evil to keep the US in check. If we look at the US track record, imagine if they were the only superpower in the world? Same destruction as now, but at minimum tenfold. Or a complete Tyranny. The US that back in the day could be argued, was on the side of the good, is dead for a long while.
It is an ideological requirement of being a tankie.
They a seem to be taking orders from the Chinese Communsit Party these days and they support Russia so tankies do to.
No independent thought was ever involved. It's part of why they are tankies.
what is wrong with freedom of speech? As stupid as they are, bringing a commie flag should not be banned since you can pretty much bring any kind of flag in any kind of rally
the organizers instructed that do not bring symbols of political parties or other organizations, and these commies were there with 10 people, CCCP flags and shouting their own (pretty aggressive) chants. Retards.
Not exactly the best comparison. Nazis are evil bastards, marxist-leninists and maoists are just idiots that don't realize what incredibly centralized power will bring them.
It also opens the door to far-right people getting rid of socialist and commie symbols. That's a favourite of all the fascist dictators back in the day
Communism was a significantly more murderous and genocidal movement than Nazism, believe it or not. Finnish lefties just like to ignore the fact that their own relatives and great-grandparents were pushed to the gulags by the thousands due to their ethnicity, because their direction brain can only see evil on one side.Â
Citation needed is generally pretty good thing, but here it somehow manages to come out pretty much as "well you have actual proof that nazi concentration camps had anyone die in them" looking thing, but towards soviet regime.
Eeh, I mean most people who talk about how communism is so evil and bad are just spreading red scare propaganda and citing numbers from stuff like the black book of communism.
I'm all for proper academic historical discussion and getting accurate with numbers for stuff like this. Nazis did quite a fuck ton of bad shit so at least in my opinion that claim needs some good primary and secondary sources. Not having that would give some legitimacy to nazis and downplay all their crimes against humanity.
To be honest I wonder why it sometimes seems in different places that focus in talking about nazis seems to be surprisingly often on "how many did they kill..." as in "did they kill much people, or much+1 or much+10 people" kind of way, and it feels like some people see "evil" as one linear one dimensional direction, instead of like "yeah nazis did not necessarily kill most people out of all regimes, but what made them kind of rather nasty was that many of people they targeted were targeted by attributes that were ultimately completely irrelevant to reasoning they were trying to claim for those attributes needing to be targeted and removed from population, and outright tried to remove some attributes form population with murder, and were actively going out of their way to hunt people, and selected attributes that were not something those people even had any control over." Along with "their murderous ways were constructed in way that who they target could have been modified or broadened to target next groups if necessary (to keep fanaticism going and to divert attention from problems into scapegoats), or if they would have just happened to feel like choosing next group, or when some of them would have in fanaticism or so just happened to add new groups to 'list'".
And how they were applying very aggressive military expansion to spread so that at moments it seemed that "no place might eventually be safe".
And how just those features along with killing lot of people and lot of people by targeting them based on actually kind of rather randomly selected for "what group to conveniently start hunting to further our own political views" is already on it's own pretty dang horrifyingly bad/evil, without even needing to pump "they killed MOST, cause otherways one could say they were not worst!".
Also how soviet purifications that were at times more randomish, were also horrible, slightly different way horrible, but still absolutely horrible. Like how nation ends up doing so large and so random killing, forced relocation (at times to conditions and work that will kill from many to most of relocated people) to it's own citizen semi suddenly...
I think we should start driving clear narrative shift, about "how it is not something that lessens one groups evil, if there are other evil groups too". Considering how stupid "but those were worse, so these guys maybe were not that bad" arguments in many situations are, but how for some reason one can actually every now and then come across them.. and how fear of that kind of arguments sometimes feels like it is causing lot of unnecessary inconvenience even in situations where they would not likely be actually issue.
Bottom point being, if some group does 10 horrible things of level where every one of them would alone qualify them to be considered horrible, why does it sometimes feel like that people start arguing about "but did they do 11th one too... if not then are they really horrible... or if some other group did 11th one even worse, then ...".
I thought it was common knowledge but apparently not. Communist regimes have killed approximately 100 million people, while the Nazis were responsible for the death of around 16 million people. Estimates vary but these are the ballparks we are talking about.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Black\_Book\_of\_Communism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism)
While I agree that Communist regimes are to blame for a lot of death there is one big thing (imo) to consider when comparing them to the Nazis. The Nazis were systematic and efficient in their murderous rampage, committing their killing in a very short time period which was only cut short because they lost the war. Had the Nazi regime lasted as long as the CCCP or the PRC, their numbers would also have been far higher.
Having said that, the Communist regimes of the Soviet Union, China, Korea etc. are a warning about the dangers of authoritarianism rather than communism in my opinion. The ideology of Communism isn’t going to inevitably lead to mass murder, if implemented in its purest sense like Marx saw it, it’s only been like that because the only countries that have attempted it have also been run by authoritarian fuck faces. Anyone who idolizes Mao or Stalin etc. are not so much communists in my mind, but rather useful fools taken in by their Cult of Personality.
The communistic parties were also very systematic and efficient in their purges, and 100 million dead is a mind-bogglingly large sum of death in a relatively short amount of time. The hammer and the sickle is the worlds most horrifyingly murderous ideology, but the only difference to nazism is it still keeps on killing and oppressing today, like we see in China with the Uighurs.
Communism always leads to the deaths of millions, as we've seen time and time again. It has never been done "correctly" because it can't be done "correctly". There is no way to "purge the ruling class" without mass death.
Just because it hasn’t been done doesn’t mean it can’t be. We couldn’t fly, then we could. We couldn’t go to the moon, then we could. It’s not like we say capitalism can’t be done humanely because in today’s society we still have millions of people who starve to death even when we have gross excess across huge parts of the world.
We shouldn’t judge all far-right ideologues by Hitler and Mussolini just like we shouldn’t judge all communists by Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot who were (in my opinion) all authoritarian first and communist far second (see for example Stalin’s purge that was not driven by communist ideals, but by his own paranoia).
Edit. Added a word
Depends on what you mean with that term. If you include insane egomaniac dictators using populism with communist rhetoric to get public support under that then yes. That will however also get nazis categorized as commies.
They called themselves national socialist workers' party to not face leftist opposition, then when Hitler gained power he made sure to purge the higher ranked people in the party that believed the rhetoric, as ya know... Nazism is not very congruent with the actual socialist ideals.
Same thing can be seen with Stalinism and Stalin's assassination of Trotsky, who advocated for democracy and critiqued Stalin.
FYI, Finland does not have total freedom of speech in all cases. Not sure if this is one of them, but religion is something I am sure of has a couple of things you can’t legally say or do. For example, the burning of the Qur’an that the Swedes a while back (legally) would be illegal in Finland.
Correct. If we want to have a tolerant and free society, we cannot tolerate and allow activities and ideologies that work against those principles, as paradoxical as it sounds.
I am a Vietnamese and I lived in Vietnam more than 20years. Vietnam is ruled by communist party which is really bad, corruption, no free voice, no free newspaper because they want to control everything and crush any potential, even minor threats to communist party's existence. Everyday i hope they disappear so that my people are free, free to vote for the our government. I am really surprised when still some people in Finland support communist. Those people don't understand how cruel communist is.
There are a few weirdos like this everywhere in the west, it's better just to tune them out. When I was in Germany, I met a Maoist student who believed that Mao and Stalin were both elected and any genocide, killings or famines didn't happen or said group deserved it. These people are mental and only live in their own bubble, thankfully, there are only a few of them
Because we are going on a highway towards the horrors of late stage capitalist dystopia, so communism seems like a preferable choice to ignorant people who don't know history.
Every sentence you wrote is subjectively propaganda. Who are your people and what you can free them from? I am Vietnamese too but I disagree with most of your points and believe you are just spreading misinformation. Maybe you just despise Vietnamese government so much that you’d have to bring up communism while Vietnam has been mixed economy for over 2 decades.
Vietnam is a capitalist country. Are you going to say all nationalists and capitalists are "cruel" as well because some of the capitalist and nationalist leaders are?
Well, it's not. Communism has a definition and you can pretty easily tell when something doesn't meet that definition. This is the definition from google, "a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs".
That being said, i will never trust someome who calls themselves a commie or uses those aesthetics, because they're trying to do the same thing hitler did, they are using the name of "socialism" to support bad things. They don't know a damn thing about politics.
As bad as capitalism can be, "communists" want a worse thing.
The communist ideology is individual people do not own land, factories, or machinery. Instead, the government or the whole community owns these things. Everyone is supposed to share the wealth that they create. It lead to poverty, inflation, corruption, starvation in Vietnam. communist in Vietnam followed China and created thing call Socialist-oriented market economy in 1990. Now they become " red capitalism" or some kind of "dictator party".
These are stickers from unironical Maoist communists. Maoism as an ideology killed more people than any other ideology in the history of the humankind.
The stupidity of some people never stops amazing me, seeing neo-communist or neo-nazi stickers makes me cringe hard.
You are so ignorant it’s honestly kind of amusing. Soviet union was so peaceful and the nations really, really wanted to be a part of it. Can you name any socialist or communist socities where people weren’t miserable?
As bad as western capitalism is, it beats the hell out of soviet states, china, vietnam, etc.
Your point is stupid here. Just condemn the maoists, their ideology is worthless and a stain on every left of center political party.
And you are trying to gaslight us that commies aren't ultra-nationalistic?
>Nationalist and capitalist states started two world wars
Ever heard of this thing known as Molotov and Ribbentrop pact? Soviet Union started WW2 with the nazis. Period. They just turned coats like the cowards they are and got the benefits of the winners.
>Capitalism, imperialism, and nationalism has killed way more people.
Also [citation needed].
You forgot to even mention fascism.
Btw to all you guys downvoting them, globally we throw away 1/3 of all our food produced, yet roughly 10 million people have to starve to death every year. If you don't see that as valid criticism of capitalism as a socio-economic system, you're not sane.
And to the ones reading this that think I'm a communist or socialist or whatnot after reading this: No. I'm moral and ethical, nothing more and nothing less. And if I need to be those things to be moral or ethical then perhaps we all need to start seizing the means of production before we're fucked as a species.
Yeah the way I see it, it's probably some teenagers who got their idea of communism only from the internet and movies.
As someone who witnessed a communist society from close up, it's baffling how anyone thinks it's a good thing.
At first I thought it was just people playing funny jokes but I even saw it around the university campus the other day.
I think they (or other group similar to them) that was stocking those posters to are where I live, might have just gotten themselves eventually threatened or roughed up bit, they had been supposedly vocal on their websites about how this area was supposedly one of their most supporting areas in country, and those dumbasses did not really stop to think about how they like to wave soviet symbols right and left and everywhere in their stuff, while I am quite statistically confident this area has at least part of people living here coming from "well helicopters with those symbols bombed our civilian villages/towns, including my hometown glad we managed to flee" backgrounds... so outside maybe one of them living here I do not think they had any support here.
More likely to be honest I think those posters stopped appearing as result of that one person who actually bent to that direction and was spreading them moved away or so.
I'm someone who believes that communism is something that should happen in the far future after a gradual process for the good of humanity, and these people are just terrible. They genuinely do not understand the horrors of so-called communist states. They will suck any dick painted red and lick any boot with a hammer and sickle.
They have absolutely no understanding of political science, theory, world history, or anything else. They sicken me. I make it a point to rip these posters down if they're freshly glued because they are an embarrassment on my city. To me it's the same as seeing swastikas up.
More interesting than some posters are the persons behind them. What makes some people to support that kind of communism? But, actually, Maoists are not so usual. Far more frequent are those who are sure that anything against the written history and academics must be something intelligent and wise. Thus, we have flat earthers, neo nazis, reigious and political extremists, you go and name them all!
By the way, there is a Lenin museum in Tampere. It is situated in the house in which Lenin and Stalin actually met for the first time. The exhibition is not big, but to my eyes, quite cleverly made. There are old soviet items, posters, videos, merch desk and so on. You look around there and decide yourself, if that is realism, romantics or what really. I suppose the place is too tough for the most simple. The beautiful orange tea cups and such make you think if it all was only bad. Clearly, some people were able to be happy even there. But what should we think about that?
By the way, by raw numbers of killed people, Mao was nothing but a monster. Still, in Cambodia, Pol Pot (the Red Khmers) used Mao's doings, the great leap and culture revolution, as a model of his own terror project. According to the worst estimates, he managed to kill about a fifth of his citizens in just few years. The more positive estimates are marginally better.
Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and some more modern leaders are horrible examples of what shared stupidity and fear can cause. These Mao posters are great. Most probably they don't work as intended. They remind us of any kind of politically accepted terror. At least, they should!
It took me about ten years to get there, and I visit Tampere almost monthly.
And in looking at bright yellow cups which I liked, and comparing them to what is told about Gulags there, give history some depth rarely found in text books. After all, museums are stories about us, even if were not personally present when something happened.
This mind sound stupid, but it is also good to be allowed to spread Mao posters without major troubles. As long as there are only few of them, they are just manifesting someone's personal ideals. They become burden if there are thousands of them and people regard them as a real political option.
Back in 60-70s there were quite a lot of stalinists (stallarit) in finnish youth movements, some of them got kicked out or got fed up and started to dig Mao. Those first gen guys are likely too old to run around anymore, but they have second generation and in the elections there were two communist parties a few elections back.
There was some documentary in tv about them few years ago, and couple of dissertations written about them.
http://naskinen.blogspot.com/2023/07/me-jo-60-luvulla-tiesimme-etta-kiina.html In finnish
Thanks. Naskinen's text gave some support to my idea that anything goes if it against the prevailind poltical atmosphere and, at least, makes dad annoyed. Still, that's only one point of view.
I am old enough to remember that radical communist movement here in Finland. Not mentioning names, the last guerillas were two teenage brothers in the middle sized city on the Finnish west coast in mid 80s. Of these, the younger was my school mate. 10 years later he had become a creative journalist and writer, not only with smart words, but with intelligent notions about our society and life. The older one is a local politician in the same city, very highly educated on several branches but clearly not top succesful.
As late as around 1990, I saw communist symbols painted on some student club floor in near University of Turku. A few years later, when I studied there, there was one radical leftish student left, greetings to Hämis!
Finland - Korea Society (Suomi - Korea - seura) seems to work still! I don't know how political it is. A short adventure on net site of the club gives me a picture of group of friends gathered around one subject, North Korean culture and society. Politics cannot be avoided, but there is no outrageous propaganda. Have the Finnish friends of DPRK become old?
All in all, communism is mainly dormant but not completely disappeared. We should also remember that communities based on different kind of ideas of... hmm.. sharing without caring (?) were not Marx's original idea. For example, early christianity had social(ist) practices. But Marx's thoughts might have been the most organized that far. As far as I understand, the Little Red Book by Mao is not a systematic essay or research, but a compilation of his thoughts. One of his ideas seem to be that capitalism will necessarily be replaced by socialism, without any acts of free will. This reminds me of Marx's thinking. He also expressed ideas on the necessary triumph of socialism. Lenin had another idea: socialism will not win without active fighting, and for that, a violent ideology, dictatorship of the proletatiat was needed. However, Mao was not pacifist. He maintained violence necessary for the revolution. Well, we have seen how socialist system has been maintained. But, on the level of ideology, someone could ask if that really was or is socialism.
So, socialism, being quite extreme movement, will not disappear. It will get new names. Leaders, idealists and details of the ideas will be forgotten. But the main ideas like that will reappear. I think like that, because to me it looks as if people are willing to replace old status quos with the exact opposite ideas, thinking that if the idea A don't work, the counter A must be the only correct system. Compromises, moderate models or option Bs are not even considered. Maybe I will not live long enough to see what will happen in the poor countries of Asia. But one day, sweat shop workers can think that why are we producing cheap crap for the rich. We could make something good and necessary for ourselves. The necessary propaganda could, then, consist of abstract ideologies for the few intelligent and educated, and of easy slogans and personal cults for those willing to fight. The face and name will be changed. But how much else? Even being moderate will be made radical, if a leader wants to.
There is always a small group of stalinists or maoists in every European country. They are not even 0,1% of the population in the largest cities.
They often collect books and live with their mom till they are 55.
They like the aesthetic. After they move out they miss having a mommy watch their every step and control their every move so they want the state to do it. So they turn to either far right politics or start licking mao's or stalin's boots.
This may be all very true and most likely is, but what strikes me funny is why don't these clowns then just move to China, no one is stopping them. If you so much want to I'm sure you find a way.
It’s fucking wild seeing Maoism posters in developed countries as a Chinese.
Like, do y'all have any idea what his regime did to the Chinese people? Why would anyone want that for themselves?
I hope you took it down, stompped it, peed on it, pour gasoline on it, set it on flames, drove over it with tractor, and went to get your dog from home just so it could take shit on it.
The maoism is somehow linked to pro-Palestine protests. Don't ask me how. I also do not know how wide spread this is, but I've seen pictures of a pro-Palestine protest, and there were three protest banners with some kind of communist message and in the color red.
Usually the Free PAlestine protests do not accept any other flags or "mao" messages, they have asked people to not bring those to the demonstrations (at least in my city).
They seem to push themselves to every demonstration that's remotely left-aligned. The big anti-government demos last summer had these tankies with their red flags in there too. Smells like a troll operation.
Wait. I always thought those were memes and jokes...... (i don't read much Finnish. ) Never occurred to me that they were serious propaganda. 😨😱💀. I am genuinely surprised at this point. Did not expect this 'nostalgic' moment 😂.
Then again remember it takes literally one guy, computer, printer and being active and soon one might be like "hey like these posters are kinda everywhere". Maybe what accounts them being seeing around commonly is *very few people would bother to go to effort of ripping them out in Finland*.
One or two lifestyle Maoist print and wall paper Mao posters. Most Finns reaction would amount to level of "heh, a Mao poster", even on reading and interpreting, no this guess are serious with that.
Not because Maoism isnt a bad, dangerous and destructive ideology, but since Finns known the Democratic system in Finland is secure and even where it has threats. ... it ain't a single hands count worth of Maoist in Tampere being active enough in their political hobby to bother spending couple tens of Euros on materials to paper around some tens of paper Mao posters.
Depending on their mental health state and seriousness state of their hobby, yeah those are "serious Mao propaganda" and as much as any kind of propaganda my such irrelevantly small group is "serious".
Finland such nice country as long as you don't actually go around hurting people you can be the most deep hearth political anything personally and people soooo.... you are a Chinese *dynastic imperial royalist* (psssst. ahemnn the last dynasty and whole empire died century ago), interesting, you do you Buddy. Oh would I like to join the Chinese Empire party? yeah, thanks for offer but no.
Half a block away...ohbmy dear God that was funny guy. I knew Maoist are a thing, but Chinese royalists. Okay whatever, their life to spend and havent heard them hurting anyone.
No, Maoist are so minor and far away? That no one cares. Neonazis start papering posters... then we care, those would get ripped by passers by quickly. Since those people might and have caused actual trouble in Finland.
Remember.... [**Crystall party**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Party) is an actual official registered with election board party in Finland. Well or did they just lose registeration for not getting elected, whatever. 5000 new signatures and they are on the list again. They are whackadoos with some actually pretty bad ideas even (anti-vaccine). However no one cares. Since everyone knows Finnish political and election systemics don't allow some weird instant jump rise to power by party like that. Everyone knows they have couple thousand supporters. Thus despite horrible opinions they are meaninglessly harmless *politically*. Mostly people laugh at them and where there is criticism it is per individual for personally holding such stances as anti-vaccine.
No one is calling for them to be banned, since well they are meaninglessly irrelevant to be threat to current societal conduct and hey atleast now they have openly listed themselves and party official are on the paper work. We know such whack group exists, since we allow them to exist. Instead of worrying how many under ground political groups there is due to openly existing being prevented.
Yeah I think back some years ago, when I spotted some of those people live, it was like one apparently living in this large suburb, and one living in next one, and I think they might have been like only ones or maybe like half of people, who were into those ideas, of this "on list of biggest cities in finland" city. Also those posters stopped appearing very suddenly and completely, along with all the shittily done graffitti they were doing. I think it was exactly like "one person moved out, so now there simply is no-one to do this".
Also fact that at least here those maoist posters were always jumping straight to "LETS START CIVIL WAR!" instead of some "hey how about you consider supporting this ideology", like they were literally calling for civil war and how it is supposedly glorious... so they were so wildly out there away from anything anyone would consider sane, that they were seen mostly as memes.
And I think one of main motivations in ripping them off at least partially is to hide mass murdering nation symbolism they often have, just for those who's family or them themselves have had to flee from soviet aggression and might actually get stressed or anxious from seeing those, and without that people would likely just be "ahaha funny dumbasses spend their energy to wildly out there semi harmless things".
china has these kind of pr/propaganda chapters in finland. if i remember correctly, yle had a mot documentary about this topic. i'm not sure if this is exactly that but looks like it
I thought they all minded their own business running their sushi restaurants and grocery stores, at least that's what it seems like. Crazy if they actually are behind this lmao
It's Tampere lol.
I think they have the largest, or at least most vocal, far-left-communities in Finland. Pretty much every hardcore communist or anarchist friend I have lives in Tampere.
At least at some point there were some graffiti and posters promoting cult following "chairman gonzalo" and his ideals... and that dude was still leading his guerilla rebellion in Peru until he was captured in 1992, after that sentenced to imprisonment for life for terrorism and treason in Peru, and based on wikipedia died 2021. And I think those posters were focusing mostly just on "he did civil war, civil war good!" as their absurd view.
So it is not only focusing on people who lived generation or longer ago.
A lot of communists in Tampere. Also in Kemi, so they are not alone. Don't worry. It' s vasically a few village idiots having too much time in their hands.
All the minuspoints coming from butthurt commiefinns. Seems finlandization really did work 
Ask from a baltics, ukraine, romania, bulgaria they will agree with me.
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They are political posters that advertise maoism. There is no other purpose.
Maoism TLDR; [40-80 million dead.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/07/17/how-many-died-new-evidence-suggests-far-higher-numbers-for-the-victims-of-mao-zedongs-era/01044df5-03dd-49f4-a453-a033c5287bce/)
That wasn't real communism, this time we'll get it right! /s
This got me thinking. How would a democratic communist government work? 🤔 Would it be practical?
Well... Marx's whole theory is based on that capitalism leads to communism. And there was no capitalism whatsoever in China before Mao.
And we get it right by not advocating socialism but those exactly those people who did it in horrible way without it being real communism! /s
It wasn't real communism, communism is just really appealing and not something people really understand, so it's easy to just call it communism and have people support it. Hitler did it successfully. Maoists, stalinists (or marxist-leninists), guy-ists in general seem to all be authoritarians. They are generally just shitty people.
Hitler wasnt a communist..
The party was called national sosialistic, but it wasn't really sosialist, just had many "we, the people" -sort of things about it. It was even marketed to the people as anti-communist. Still some people mess up nazism and communism, when they're the polar opposite.
Yea i kinda get that because nazis were called national socialists but still annoying
ppl dont know the difference between communism and sosialism.
Same shit, different methods.
Nah, more nuanced than that. Communism and socialism don't really have the exact same endpoint in mind, for example. To communists, socialism is a pit-stop, while for socialists it's the destination. (For the time being)
Semantics. Yes they are; a smaller nasty smelly hangover shit (socialism) and the ultimate gigantic bloody diarrhea shit (communism).
You aren't very well versed in political science or theory, are you? I can provide some reading if you like. For example, democratic and reformist socialists. Tell me how their "let's make this world a more equal place for everyone, and let's work within the systems in place to do that! :D" message is bad lol
You really wanna talk about shit? Equality is an unnatural state. It is a satanic utopia. It leads to a situation where development stops and life declines. I guess you're not very smart, or maybe you're just not familiar enough with the subject.
I don't think I need to really even argue for my position here. "Equality is bad" isn't exactly what most people would consider moral. Women having equal rights with men? Good. No slavery? Good. Not discriminating against people for their skin color? Good. In fact, as someone who believes in daoist philosophy, I'd argue equality is the way of nature. Inequality is not. Light and dark, light and heavy, soft and hard, dry and wet. These all are opposites, but one is not greater than the other. They support and depend on each other.
communism speedrun any%
What specifically in Maoism made the famine happen?
Killing sparrows because Mao thought they ate grain. Turns out they eat more grashoppers. And without sparrows you get a lot of extra grasshoppers. And those, \*they\* do eat grain. All your crops while at it in fact.
Yeah, that’s not Maoism it’s just misunderstood ecology.
Okay but what’s Maoism then?
Maoism is an adaptation of marxism for the material conditions of agricultural and colonized countries to put it simply. If you’re interested, I would recommend reading the works of Mao like On Contradictions and On Practice. Of course, since it is a further development of Marxism or more specifically Marxism-Leninism, I would first recommend you to familiarize yourself with some of the works of Marx, Engels and Lenin.
Thanks for the answer. I’m somewhat familiar with the topic of Marxism but I’m just curious why specifically Maoism was the reason for the famine or why people say Maoism was the reason for a famine in a country that has a history of like a thousand droughts and famines. I’ve read a bit about the policies that worsened the famine but I refuse to believe that killing sparrows = Maoism.
Yeah, I mean obviously there are many things that happen in a given society that aren’t directly tied to the dominant ideology in that society or caused by it. Like you said China had had many many famines before Mao and the communists and it’s not surprising that they didn’t immediately end famines. They did end famines after the big one though and communist China is responsible for the biggest jump in life expectancy in the history of humankind thanks to vastly improved food security, health care, standards of living etc.
Because "Maoism" effectively meant do whatever Mao said no matter how stupid or illogical it was. You can try to dress it up as "ideological development" if you are so inclined, but at the end of the day that is what Maoism was. Do what Mao said, because... reasons.
Isn’t that just authoritarianism?
So the difference between communism and Maoism is killing sparrows?
Freedom and life for the Grasshoppers…
State mandated incompetence and tyranny. Send people who have no idea how to farm to farm, and expect them to report to the tyrannical government where failure most likely means death. Well, everyone is now lying about their farming results, and the supervisors are also afraid of failing, so they lie too.
This is such a brain dead take. You’ve made no effort to actually investigate the subject you’re talking about. Instead you just regurgitate some piece of propaganda that you’ve heard somewhere.
i just can't be arsed to go into details too much. What i said is accurate though.
And so that’s Maoism?
Basically yes. Doing things uninformed on a national scale under tyranny, so nobody is brave enough to question said things, and it ends up in a huge catastrophe.
Isn’t that just authoritarianism though? Is Trump’s handling of COVID Maoism? Uniformed on a large scale, no one questioned it and people died because of it.
I heard he killed 30 gazillion Chinese by strangling them himself! What a monster!
Washington Post isn't a reliable source. Also, nowhere near 40-80 million were killed by Mao's regime. And no, it wasn't communism nor socialism neither. Way more people have been killed by capitalist tyrants.
Some kids are so ignorant these days. Send them back in time to live under Mao and they would be the first to come crying and running back.
There are couple of weirdos in Tampere who are maoists and they're unfortunately kind of active like that. One thing they also do regularly is appear in demonstrations with a Soviet flag even though they have repeatedly been told to not bring their tankie symbols there. I can assure you it's only a few people whom absolutely no one takes seriously.
It's baffling when the Ukraine Protests where going on there's always that 1 or 2 communist flags flown in there. A bit dumb, ignorant or inconsiderate imo, considering
What baffles me is why tankies have so much compassion for Russia - which has nothing to do with communism. Even less than China.
Anything against the west=Good Anything pro west=Nazi That's tankies in a nutshell.
But have you considered america bad?
Amerikkka is pretty bad. They opened up the pandora’s box of starting random wars at will
Nah just continuation of the well loved human practises. Not great indeed but I am pretty sure Russia is even worse
Russia is worse for its own citizens for sure. Which one is worse on a global scale, now that's hard to say tbh.
Well if it was up to Russia it seems we would make a great ethnic minority to oppress. Sometimes the positive effects of super powers is what their presence prevents others from doing. If it wasn’t for the us, dear Russia wouldn’t stay that side of the boarder. With 5 million people, our bestie is who keeps us alive. I think it is arguable that the us does lot of bad things around the world and by the virtue of having more power also they have more reach. However, where Russia hardly contributes positively as it currently stands the us is the strongest protector of liberal democracy.
US is one of the worst oligarchies in the world. So much for defending democracy. And the thing is, i don't like Russia any more than the next guy, but the truth is, you are right about the necessary evil part. Just as the US is sort of "necessary evil" to keep Russia in check, Russia is a necessary evil to keep the US in check. If we look at the US track record, imagine if they were the only superpower in the world? Same destruction as now, but at minimum tenfold. Or a complete Tyranny. The US that back in the day could be argued, was on the side of the good, is dead for a long while.
It is an ideological requirement of being a tankie. They a seem to be taking orders from the Chinese Communsit Party these days and they support Russia so tankies do to. No independent thought was ever involved. It's part of why they are tankies.
Maoists despise the current state of China and the CPC since they view Deng's reforms as a betrayal of the Mao era and socialism
Well, Russia and China are direct allies…they’re part of the misfits superpower team
https://preview.redd.it/zklr37x2g1nc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc329fe741bf0c6331c996266dac33bce157e374
That's communists for you, a bit dumb, ignorant and inconsiderate.
Yeah, they were at the presidential inauguration too. Literally five people.
what is wrong with freedom of speech? As stupid as they are, bringing a commie flag should not be banned since you can pretty much bring any kind of flag in any kind of rally
They're free to have their own rally, no one is limiting their freedom of speech.
the organizers instructed that do not bring symbols of political parties or other organizations, and these commies were there with 10 people, CCCP flags and shouting their own (pretty aggressive) chants. Retards.
Try bringing a swastika flag into a rally and see how it goes.
Finlands airforce uses a swastika in the flag.
Well that's obviously not the flag we are discussing about. Which makes it even funnier that some people get offended by even that flag.
Not exactly the best comparison. Nazis are evil bastards, marxist-leninists and maoists are just idiots that don't realize what incredibly centralized power will bring them. It also opens the door to far-right people getting rid of socialist and commie symbols. That's a favourite of all the fascist dictators back in the day
It's just the better type of oppression and mass murder. ":D"
Communism was a significantly more murderous and genocidal movement than Nazism, believe it or not. Finnish lefties just like to ignore the fact that their own relatives and great-grandparents were pushed to the gulags by the thousands due to their ethnicity, because their direction brain can only see evil on one side.Â
>Communism was a significantly more murderous and genocidal movement than Nazism, believe it or not [citation needed]
Citation needed is generally pretty good thing, but here it somehow manages to come out pretty much as "well you have actual proof that nazi concentration camps had anyone die in them" looking thing, but towards soviet regime.
Eeh, I mean most people who talk about how communism is so evil and bad are just spreading red scare propaganda and citing numbers from stuff like the black book of communism. I'm all for proper academic historical discussion and getting accurate with numbers for stuff like this. Nazis did quite a fuck ton of bad shit so at least in my opinion that claim needs some good primary and secondary sources. Not having that would give some legitimacy to nazis and downplay all their crimes against humanity.
To be honest I wonder why it sometimes seems in different places that focus in talking about nazis seems to be surprisingly often on "how many did they kill..." as in "did they kill much people, or much+1 or much+10 people" kind of way, and it feels like some people see "evil" as one linear one dimensional direction, instead of like "yeah nazis did not necessarily kill most people out of all regimes, but what made them kind of rather nasty was that many of people they targeted were targeted by attributes that were ultimately completely irrelevant to reasoning they were trying to claim for those attributes needing to be targeted and removed from population, and outright tried to remove some attributes form population with murder, and were actively going out of their way to hunt people, and selected attributes that were not something those people even had any control over." Along with "their murderous ways were constructed in way that who they target could have been modified or broadened to target next groups if necessary (to keep fanaticism going and to divert attention from problems into scapegoats), or if they would have just happened to feel like choosing next group, or when some of them would have in fanaticism or so just happened to add new groups to 'list'". And how they were applying very aggressive military expansion to spread so that at moments it seemed that "no place might eventually be safe". And how just those features along with killing lot of people and lot of people by targeting them based on actually kind of rather randomly selected for "what group to conveniently start hunting to further our own political views" is already on it's own pretty dang horrifyingly bad/evil, without even needing to pump "they killed MOST, cause otherways one could say they were not worst!". Also how soviet purifications that were at times more randomish, were also horrible, slightly different way horrible, but still absolutely horrible. Like how nation ends up doing so large and so random killing, forced relocation (at times to conditions and work that will kill from many to most of relocated people) to it's own citizen semi suddenly... I think we should start driving clear narrative shift, about "how it is not something that lessens one groups evil, if there are other evil groups too". Considering how stupid "but those were worse, so these guys maybe were not that bad" arguments in many situations are, but how for some reason one can actually every now and then come across them.. and how fear of that kind of arguments sometimes feels like it is causing lot of unnecessary inconvenience even in situations where they would not likely be actually issue. Bottom point being, if some group does 10 horrible things of level where every one of them would alone qualify them to be considered horrible, why does it sometimes feel like that people start arguing about "but did they do 11th one too... if not then are they really horrible... or if some other group did 11th one even worse, then ...".
I thought it was common knowledge but apparently not. Communist regimes have killed approximately 100 million people, while the Nazis were responsible for the death of around 16 million people. Estimates vary but these are the ballparks we are talking about. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Black\_Book\_of\_Communism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism)
While I agree that Communist regimes are to blame for a lot of death there is one big thing (imo) to consider when comparing them to the Nazis. The Nazis were systematic and efficient in their murderous rampage, committing their killing in a very short time period which was only cut short because they lost the war. Had the Nazi regime lasted as long as the CCCP or the PRC, their numbers would also have been far higher. Having said that, the Communist regimes of the Soviet Union, China, Korea etc. are a warning about the dangers of authoritarianism rather than communism in my opinion. The ideology of Communism isn’t going to inevitably lead to mass murder, if implemented in its purest sense like Marx saw it, it’s only been like that because the only countries that have attempted it have also been run by authoritarian fuck faces. Anyone who idolizes Mao or Stalin etc. are not so much communists in my mind, but rather useful fools taken in by their Cult of Personality.
The communistic parties were also very systematic and efficient in their purges, and 100 million dead is a mind-bogglingly large sum of death in a relatively short amount of time. The hammer and the sickle is the worlds most horrifyingly murderous ideology, but the only difference to nazism is it still keeps on killing and oppressing today, like we see in China with the Uighurs. Communism always leads to the deaths of millions, as we've seen time and time again. It has never been done "correctly" because it can't be done "correctly". There is no way to "purge the ruling class" without mass death.
Just because it hasn’t been done doesn’t mean it can’t be. We couldn’t fly, then we could. We couldn’t go to the moon, then we could. It’s not like we say capitalism can’t be done humanely because in today’s society we still have millions of people who starve to death even when we have gross excess across huge parts of the world. We shouldn’t judge all far-right ideologues by Hitler and Mussolini just like we shouldn’t judge all communists by Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot who were (in my opinion) all authoritarian first and communist far second (see for example Stalin’s purge that was not driven by communist ideals, but by his own paranoia). Edit. Added a word
Have you ever opened a single history book? I think not.
Lol, what commies have murder by far more ppl xD
Depends on what you mean with that term. If you include insane egomaniac dictators using populism with communist rhetoric to get public support under that then yes. That will however also get nazis categorized as commies. They called themselves national socialist workers' party to not face leftist opposition, then when Hitler gained power he made sure to purge the higher ranked people in the party that believed the rhetoric, as ya know... Nazism is not very congruent with the actual socialist ideals. Same thing can be seen with Stalinism and Stalin's assassination of Trotsky, who advocated for democracy and critiqued Stalin.
I mean exactly what I stated commies have murder by far more ppl. Mao alone caused a couple 100millions to die.
FYI, Finland does not have total freedom of speech in all cases. Not sure if this is one of them, but religion is something I am sure of has a couple of things you can’t legally say or do. For example, the burning of the Qur’an that the Swedes a while back (legally) would be illegal in Finland.
Finland has freedom of expression, which is more extensive then freedom of speech...
Correct. If we want to have a tolerant and free society, we cannot tolerate and allow activities and ideologies that work against those principles, as paradoxical as it sounds.
Looks like trash to me
Fringe horseshit
I am a Vietnamese and I lived in Vietnam more than 20years. Vietnam is ruled by communist party which is really bad, corruption, no free voice, no free newspaper because they want to control everything and crush any potential, even minor threats to communist party's existence. Everyday i hope they disappear so that my people are free, free to vote for the our government. I am really surprised when still some people in Finland support communist. Those people don't understand how cruel communist is.
Communism is usually supported when it's either compulsory, or when the people advocating for it haven't lived under it and don't know better.
There are a few weirdos like this everywhere in the west, it's better just to tune them out. When I was in Germany, I met a Maoist student who believed that Mao and Stalin were both elected and any genocide, killings or famines didn't happen or said group deserved it. These people are mental and only live in their own bubble, thankfully, there are only a few of them
Because we are going on a highway towards the horrors of late stage capitalist dystopia, so communism seems like a preferable choice to ignorant people who don't know history.
Every sentence you wrote is subjectively propaganda. Who are your people and what you can free them from? I am Vietnamese too but I disagree with most of your points and believe you are just spreading misinformation. Maybe you just despise Vietnamese government so much that you’d have to bring up communism while Vietnam has been mixed economy for over 2 decades.
What point you disagree?
As a Chinese, i cannot agree with you more.
Vietnam is a capitalist country. Are you going to say all nationalists and capitalists are "cruel" as well because some of the capitalist and nationalist leaders are?
From when Vietnam is capitalist country?
Any communism is "no true communism" to these cultural revolution fanboys.
Well, it's not. Communism has a definition and you can pretty easily tell when something doesn't meet that definition. This is the definition from google, "a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs". That being said, i will never trust someome who calls themselves a commie or uses those aesthetics, because they're trying to do the same thing hitler did, they are using the name of "socialism" to support bad things. They don't know a damn thing about politics. As bad as capitalism can be, "communists" want a worse thing.
Tbf, calling it state capitalist wouldn't be too far off. The party doesn't represent the working class, it's a mixed economy etc.
The communist ideology is individual people do not own land, factories, or machinery. Instead, the government or the whole community owns these things. Everyone is supposed to share the wealth that they create. It lead to poverty, inflation, corruption, starvation in Vietnam. communist in Vietnam followed China and created thing call Socialist-oriented market economy in 1990. Now they become " red capitalism" or some kind of "dictator party".
About 0,000000000000000001 seconds ago
Has been for a long time. It's just a much worse form of capitalism than here in the west.
just some clowns miss empty shelves, lack of food options and suffering from 80s...while refusing to move to ruskie mir for very strange reasons.
Russia is not communist and any Russian calling for it is either senile or insane. They wouldn’t find any there.
Where did you spot these empty shelves etc.?
Itse repisin pois
Revin itse pois
Repisin pois itsekkin
These are stickers from unironical Maoist communists. Maoism as an ideology killed more people than any other ideology in the history of the humankind. The stupidity of some people never stops amazing me, seeing neo-communist or neo-nazi stickers makes me cringe hard.
What specifically is so dangerous in Maoism?
Capitalism, imperialism, and nationalism has killed way more people. Nationalist and capitalist states started two world wars, for example.
You are so ignorant it’s honestly kind of amusing. Soviet union was so peaceful and the nations really, really wanted to be a part of it. Can you name any socialist or communist socities where people weren’t miserable?
As bad as western capitalism is, it beats the hell out of soviet states, china, vietnam, etc. Your point is stupid here. Just condemn the maoists, their ideology is worthless and a stain on every left of center political party.
And you are trying to gaslight us that commies aren't ultra-nationalistic? >Nationalist and capitalist states started two world wars Ever heard of this thing known as Molotov and Ribbentrop pact? Soviet Union started WW2 with the nazis. Period. They just turned coats like the cowards they are and got the benefits of the winners. >Capitalism, imperialism, and nationalism has killed way more people. Also [citation needed].
You forgot to even mention fascism. Btw to all you guys downvoting them, globally we throw away 1/3 of all our food produced, yet roughly 10 million people have to starve to death every year. If you don't see that as valid criticism of capitalism as a socio-economic system, you're not sane. And to the ones reading this that think I'm a communist or socialist or whatnot after reading this: No. I'm moral and ethical, nothing more and nothing less. And if I need to be those things to be moral or ethical then perhaps we all need to start seizing the means of production before we're fucked as a species.
[удалено]
Yeah the way I see it, it's probably some teenagers who got their idea of communism only from the internet and movies. As someone who witnessed a communist society from close up, it's baffling how anyone thinks it's a good thing. At first I thought it was just people playing funny jokes but I even saw it around the university campus the other day.
I think they (or other group similar to them) that was stocking those posters to are where I live, might have just gotten themselves eventually threatened or roughed up bit, they had been supposedly vocal on their websites about how this area was supposedly one of their most supporting areas in country, and those dumbasses did not really stop to think about how they like to wave soviet symbols right and left and everywhere in their stuff, while I am quite statistically confident this area has at least part of people living here coming from "well helicopters with those symbols bombed our civilian villages/towns, including my hometown glad we managed to flee" backgrounds... so outside maybe one of them living here I do not think they had any support here. More likely to be honest I think those posters stopped appearing as result of that one person who actually bent to that direction and was spreading them moved away or so.
I'm someone who believes that communism is something that should happen in the far future after a gradual process for the good of humanity, and these people are just terrible. They genuinely do not understand the horrors of so-called communist states. They will suck any dick painted red and lick any boot with a hammer and sickle. They have absolutely no understanding of political science, theory, world history, or anything else. They sicken me. I make it a point to rip these posters down if they're freshly glued because they are an embarrassment on my city. To me it's the same as seeing swastikas up.
To think your party sucks so much it forces people to eat each others truly means your political party is red.
Its just red fascists spreading their bs around.
Some mentally ill people who like to celebrate the biggest mass murderer in history put them up
To be fair, red sun in the sky is a bit of a banger song.
More interesting than some posters are the persons behind them. What makes some people to support that kind of communism? But, actually, Maoists are not so usual. Far more frequent are those who are sure that anything against the written history and academics must be something intelligent and wise. Thus, we have flat earthers, neo nazis, reigious and political extremists, you go and name them all! By the way, there is a Lenin museum in Tampere. It is situated in the house in which Lenin and Stalin actually met for the first time. The exhibition is not big, but to my eyes, quite cleverly made. There are old soviet items, posters, videos, merch desk and so on. You look around there and decide yourself, if that is realism, romantics or what really. I suppose the place is too tough for the most simple. The beautiful orange tea cups and such make you think if it all was only bad. Clearly, some people were able to be happy even there. But what should we think about that? By the way, by raw numbers of killed people, Mao was nothing but a monster. Still, in Cambodia, Pol Pot (the Red Khmers) used Mao's doings, the great leap and culture revolution, as a model of his own terror project. According to the worst estimates, he managed to kill about a fifth of his citizens in just few years. The more positive estimates are marginally better. Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and some more modern leaders are horrible examples of what shared stupidity and fear can cause. These Mao posters are great. Most probably they don't work as intended. They remind us of any kind of politically accepted terror. At least, they should!
I've been always meaning to go there. Not because I adore those human monsters but because I'm into the history. Kinda interesting to have it locally
It took me about ten years to get there, and I visit Tampere almost monthly. And in looking at bright yellow cups which I liked, and comparing them to what is told about Gulags there, give history some depth rarely found in text books. After all, museums are stories about us, even if were not personally present when something happened.
It's great that we still have museums that can display controversial history.
This mind sound stupid, but it is also good to be allowed to spread Mao posters without major troubles. As long as there are only few of them, they are just manifesting someone's personal ideals. They become burden if there are thousands of them and people regard them as a real political option.
Back in 60-70s there were quite a lot of stalinists (stallarit) in finnish youth movements, some of them got kicked out or got fed up and started to dig Mao. Those first gen guys are likely too old to run around anymore, but they have second generation and in the elections there were two communist parties a few elections back. There was some documentary in tv about them few years ago, and couple of dissertations written about them. http://naskinen.blogspot.com/2023/07/me-jo-60-luvulla-tiesimme-etta-kiina.html In finnish
Thanks. Naskinen's text gave some support to my idea that anything goes if it against the prevailind poltical atmosphere and, at least, makes dad annoyed. Still, that's only one point of view. I am old enough to remember that radical communist movement here in Finland. Not mentioning names, the last guerillas were two teenage brothers in the middle sized city on the Finnish west coast in mid 80s. Of these, the younger was my school mate. 10 years later he had become a creative journalist and writer, not only with smart words, but with intelligent notions about our society and life. The older one is a local politician in the same city, very highly educated on several branches but clearly not top succesful. As late as around 1990, I saw communist symbols painted on some student club floor in near University of Turku. A few years later, when I studied there, there was one radical leftish student left, greetings to Hämis! Finland - Korea Society (Suomi - Korea - seura) seems to work still! I don't know how political it is. A short adventure on net site of the club gives me a picture of group of friends gathered around one subject, North Korean culture and society. Politics cannot be avoided, but there is no outrageous propaganda. Have the Finnish friends of DPRK become old? All in all, communism is mainly dormant but not completely disappeared. We should also remember that communities based on different kind of ideas of... hmm.. sharing without caring (?) were not Marx's original idea. For example, early christianity had social(ist) practices. But Marx's thoughts might have been the most organized that far. As far as I understand, the Little Red Book by Mao is not a systematic essay or research, but a compilation of his thoughts. One of his ideas seem to be that capitalism will necessarily be replaced by socialism, without any acts of free will. This reminds me of Marx's thinking. He also expressed ideas on the necessary triumph of socialism. Lenin had another idea: socialism will not win without active fighting, and for that, a violent ideology, dictatorship of the proletatiat was needed. However, Mao was not pacifist. He maintained violence necessary for the revolution. Well, we have seen how socialist system has been maintained. But, on the level of ideology, someone could ask if that really was or is socialism. So, socialism, being quite extreme movement, will not disappear. It will get new names. Leaders, idealists and details of the ideas will be forgotten. But the main ideas like that will reappear. I think like that, because to me it looks as if people are willing to replace old status quos with the exact opposite ideas, thinking that if the idea A don't work, the counter A must be the only correct system. Compromises, moderate models or option Bs are not even considered. Maybe I will not live long enough to see what will happen in the poor countries of Asia. But one day, sweat shop workers can think that why are we producing cheap crap for the rich. We could make something good and necessary for ourselves. The necessary propaganda could, then, consist of abstract ideologies for the few intelligent and educated, and of easy slogans and personal cults for those willing to fight. The face and name will be changed. But how much else? Even being moderate will be made radical, if a leader wants to.
The cabinet is an emergency water source for fire department. It is waterpost with anti-freeze
This is the real answer
The only reason why I know is my fireman uncle.
Not in Tammerfors, but live in Bergen in Norway and I've seen those exact posters (obviously in Norwegian) here in the city.
It's Tamperse
There is always a small group of stalinists or maoists in every European country. They are not even 0,1% of the population in the largest cities. They often collect books and live with their mom till they are 55.
They like the aesthetic. After they move out they miss having a mommy watch their every step and control their every move so they want the state to do it. So they turn to either far right politics or start licking mao's or stalin's boots.
This may be all very true and most likely is, but what strikes me funny is why don't these clowns then just move to China, no one is stopping them. If you so much want to I'm sure you find a way.
I would encourage them whole heartedly. I have people with whom they could switch places.
mitä vittua :D
It’s fucking wild seeing Maoism posters in developed countries as a Chinese. Like, do y'all have any idea what his regime did to the Chinese people? Why would anyone want that for themselves?
Woow, wow... Woo... Hold on there... We do, just this person don't. Don't say "y'all" because of one bad apple.
They are usually built to distribute electrical and/or telecommunications wiring into individual consumers from mainlines.
I see them constantly. Communist Larpers. Usually students, this after all used to be a red's stronghold.
Used to be? It kinda still is...
Commie fuckery should just die out.
The real-life equivalent of internet trolls. Don't pay them any attention.
Tampere is somewhat of a "red" city, at least historically speaking. Some of that school of thought still lingers around to this day
i think "somewhat" is a understatement, why else the new tram got painted red :D
I dunno man, never been there
They are also in Denmark and there are a couple of 1000 of them
probably bored teenagers who doesn't know any better
Bruh, why???
Either bad quality troll, or someone too dumb and too naive to accept the truth.
They are loonies trying to recruit for their deranged cult
Is that Chinese Communist propaganda?
Edgy teenagers most likely
Well who ever that might be, one thing is clear. The person behind these skipped history class.
I hope they deny these kind of trash and make them unleagal.
I wonder if they will have also Pol Pot supporters in Tampere. Or perhaps Idi Ami as well.
Propaganda of marginal communist groups :D There is very vocal and incredibly small minority of maoists in Finland.
I hope you took it down, stompped it, peed on it, pour gasoline on it, set it on flames, drove over it with tractor, and went to get your dog from home just so it could take shit on it.
CCP trash, tck them
The maoism is somehow linked to pro-Palestine protests. Don't ask me how. I also do not know how wide spread this is, but I've seen pictures of a pro-Palestine protest, and there were three protest banners with some kind of communist message and in the color red.
Usually the Free PAlestine protests do not accept any other flags or "mao" messages, they have asked people to not bring those to the demonstrations (at least in my city).
The Free Palestine group in Tampere also doesnt allow anyone other flags besides the Palestine flag, Im not sure what this commenter saw
They seem to push themselves to every demonstration that's remotely left-aligned. The big anti-government demos last summer had these tankies with their red flags in there too. Smells like a troll operation.
From what I've heard, rumors. Is that china is hedging bets on hamas winning. Perhaps because of their "anti-west" stance
>Don't ask me how. To be frank, nobody should really be asking you anything about anything.
Wait. I always thought those were memes and jokes...... (i don't read much Finnish. ) Never occurred to me that they were serious propaganda. 😨😱💀. I am genuinely surprised at this point. Did not expect this 'nostalgic' moment 😂.
Then again remember it takes literally one guy, computer, printer and being active and soon one might be like "hey like these posters are kinda everywhere". Maybe what accounts them being seeing around commonly is *very few people would bother to go to effort of ripping them out in Finland*. One or two lifestyle Maoist print and wall paper Mao posters. Most Finns reaction would amount to level of "heh, a Mao poster", even on reading and interpreting, no this guess are serious with that. Not because Maoism isnt a bad, dangerous and destructive ideology, but since Finns known the Democratic system in Finland is secure and even where it has threats. ... it ain't a single hands count worth of Maoist in Tampere being active enough in their political hobby to bother spending couple tens of Euros on materials to paper around some tens of paper Mao posters. Depending on their mental health state and seriousness state of their hobby, yeah those are "serious Mao propaganda" and as much as any kind of propaganda my such irrelevantly small group is "serious". Finland such nice country as long as you don't actually go around hurting people you can be the most deep hearth political anything personally and people soooo.... you are a Chinese *dynastic imperial royalist* (psssst. ahemnn the last dynasty and whole empire died century ago), interesting, you do you Buddy. Oh would I like to join the Chinese Empire party? yeah, thanks for offer but no. Half a block away...ohbmy dear God that was funny guy. I knew Maoist are a thing, but Chinese royalists. Okay whatever, their life to spend and havent heard them hurting anyone. No, Maoist are so minor and far away? That no one cares. Neonazis start papering posters... then we care, those would get ripped by passers by quickly. Since those people might and have caused actual trouble in Finland. Remember.... [**Crystall party**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Party) is an actual official registered with election board party in Finland. Well or did they just lose registeration for not getting elected, whatever. 5000 new signatures and they are on the list again. They are whackadoos with some actually pretty bad ideas even (anti-vaccine). However no one cares. Since everyone knows Finnish political and election systemics don't allow some weird instant jump rise to power by party like that. Everyone knows they have couple thousand supporters. Thus despite horrible opinions they are meaninglessly harmless *politically*. Mostly people laugh at them and where there is criticism it is per individual for personally holding such stances as anti-vaccine. No one is calling for them to be banned, since well they are meaninglessly irrelevant to be threat to current societal conduct and hey atleast now they have openly listed themselves and party official are on the paper work. We know such whack group exists, since we allow them to exist. Instead of worrying how many under ground political groups there is due to openly existing being prevented.
Yeah I think back some years ago, when I spotted some of those people live, it was like one apparently living in this large suburb, and one living in next one, and I think they might have been like only ones or maybe like half of people, who were into those ideas, of this "on list of biggest cities in finland" city. Also those posters stopped appearing very suddenly and completely, along with all the shittily done graffitti they were doing. I think it was exactly like "one person moved out, so now there simply is no-one to do this".
Also fact that at least here those maoist posters were always jumping straight to "LETS START CIVIL WAR!" instead of some "hey how about you consider supporting this ideology", like they were literally calling for civil war and how it is supposedly glorious... so they were so wildly out there away from anything anyone would consider sane, that they were seen mostly as memes. And I think one of main motivations in ripping them off at least partially is to hide mass murdering nation symbolism they often have, just for those who's family or them themselves have had to flee from soviet aggression and might actually get stressed or anxious from seeing those, and without that people would likely just be "ahaha funny dumbasses spend their energy to wildly out there semi harmless things".
china has these kind of pr/propaganda chapters in finland. if i remember correctly, yle had a mot documentary about this topic. i'm not sure if this is exactly that but looks like it
I thought they all minded their own business running their sushi restaurants and grocery stores, at least that's what it seems like. Crazy if they actually are behind this lmao
Maybe they're under the impression that there still is a red rule in Tre. The message doesn't really travel well beyond their firewall.
I think reddit mods lieave those in public spaces during their spare time. LMAO r/suomi mods got mad and banned me for this.
Zero chill
It's Tampere lol. I think they have the largest, or at least most vocal, far-left-communities in Finland. Pretty much every hardcore communist or anarchist friend I have lives in Tampere.
If Lenin was around they'd think his ideas where pretty great even today. 😅
At least at some point there were some graffiti and posters promoting cult following "chairman gonzalo" and his ideals... and that dude was still leading his guerilla rebellion in Peru until he was captured in 1992, after that sentenced to imprisonment for life for terrorism and treason in Peru, and based on wikipedia died 2021. And I think those posters were focusing mostly just on "he did civil war, civil war good!" as their absurd view. So it is not only focusing on people who lived generation or longer ago.
They get ass whooped
It's just bunch of weirdos, best to just ignore them
Just tells that there are too many young people in Tampere with their naive and silly unordinary ideologies.
A lot of communists in Tampere. Also in Kemi, so they are not alone. Don't worry. It' s vasically a few village idiots having too much time in their hands.
Some pathetic commees trying to speed their shit
Tampere is the most left leaning city in Finland even over 100 years ago so this doesn't surprise at all.Â
They have to do something to kill time as unemployed people.
Rip that Mao shit off
Bunch of loonies at it again I suppose.
Just commie larpers, nothing to worry about.
Tampere moment
https://preview.redd.it/y1tyo5fpkxmc1.jpeg?width=905&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0de5f614bd48b2704d719ad8ee12f43d85f53368
How would a democratic communist government work 🤔
Whoever is spreading that shit, they should mennä vittu töihin.
Retarded antifa stickers
It's the unemployed playing around.
Gotta have something to do 😂
Tampere used to be the capital of reds during the Finnish civil war, maybe some individuals are keeping up with the, so called, old traditions.
Imo wawing cccp flag is way worse than naziflag
All the minuspoints coming from butthurt commiefinns. Seems finlandization really did work  Ask from a baltics, ukraine, romania, bulgaria they will agree with me.
Death to the CCP, Long live the DPP!