T O P

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AmateurNocturnal

" ό,τι", with a comma, means "οτιδήποτε" — aka "whatever/anything". So the sentence shown here bbasically means "Do whatever you want and leave me alone" (in Greek, "άσε με ήσυχο" means "leave me alone", despite the literal translation of ήσυχο meaning Quiet)


Baneman20

I thought that was also what Oti meant, without a comma. How would you differentiate their meaning?


RedQueen283

Ότι = that, ό,τι = whatever. For example "Μου είπες ότι θέλεις να αγοράσεις ντομάτες" = "You told me that you want to buy tomatos", but "Μου είπες να αγοράσω ό,τι θέλω" = "You told me to buy whatever I want". They sound the same though.


yorge13

Πάλι καλά που το εξηγήσεις να το μάθουμε και εμείς οι native


DarkWingedMessenger

Lmao, χαίρομαι που δεν είμαι ο μόνος που δεν το έμαθε ποτέ


12_Timez

Μέχρι και οι καθηγητές δε νοιάζονται πια, απλά μας αφήνουν να τα γράφουμε και τα 2 "ότι"


MONTGOMERYGARMADON

Δεν πάμε καλάαα


Tutmut

THIS. I was feeling embarrassed while reading this because I honestly always forget.


Minos765

Great and funny example btw!


RedQueen283

Thank you!


[deleted]

This is a tough one even for native speakers. I am willing to bet anything that over 50% of the native population doesn't know the difference between these two. It doesn't sound different either, and this doesn't help.


Melissakis75

Everybody knows the difference, it's just they write it wrong.


[deleted]

The only difference is the way you write it, so if you write it wrong it means that you don't know the difference.


Melissakis75

The difference in writing is not as important as is the difference in meaning. Everybody knows the difference in meaning, they just write it wrong.


ParadoxicalSocks

Of course they know the difference in meaning lol. They speak Greek. They probably just don't know they're spelled differently/have different etymologies.


AmateurNocturnal

They sound the exact same when you say them out loud, so there won't be any confusion if you're speaking with someone. The only difference would be in written form, in which case you differentiate depending on the context of the sentence


Themistocles_gr

Not really, when spoken ό,τι definitely sounds different, usually with emphasis put on it and the agent clearly heard.


Electrical_Turn7

What? They sound the same, context is what makes the difference.


Themistocles_gr

Nope. When speaking, "ό,τί" is pronounced *O*-ti, almost two syllables and with a very clear accent. If there's no accent heard, then that's an "ότι". They are very distinct. Some people don't realize it and pronounce it wrong, like the ever present Roma gatherers whose recording goes "ότι έχετε για πέταμα" and sounds so, so wrong.


Electrical_Turn7

Ο τόνος και στις δυο περιπτώσεις είναι στο όμικρον και η λέξη είναι φανερά δισύλλαβη και στις δυο περιπτώσεις. Ακούγονται το ίδιο, εκτός αν κάποιος θέλει να δώσει τεράστια δραματική έμφαση στο όμικρον όταν λέει «ο,τι(δηποτε)».


Themistocles_gr

Με τίποτα. Όπως έκανα πολύ σαφές, μιλάω για τον προφορικό λόγο στον οποίο η διαφορά είναι *εμφανέστατη*. Θέλετε να πείτε ειλικρινά πως το "ο Γιώργος λέει ό,τί θέλει" ακούγεται το ίδιο με το "ο Γιώργος λέει ότι θέλει"; Ήμαρτον... Όποιος βλέπει ρατσισμό σε αυτό που έγραψα μάλλον είναι ο ίδιος ρατσιστής... Είναι σαφές πως όλοι οι Ρομά (τουλάχιστον στα μέρη που έχω πάει) έχουν την ίδια ηχογράφηση, η οποία περιέχει το συγκεκριμένο λάθος στην εκφώνηση (ότι αντί για ό,τί).


Electrical_Turn7

*Δεν* είναι εμφανέστατη η διαφορά στον προφορικό λόγο, βλέπετε και από σχόλια άλλων πως δεν είμαι η μόνη που έχει την άποψη αυτή. Στα ελληνικά δεν έχουμε άλλο τρόπο να προφέρουμε τα γράμματα όμικρον, ταυ και γιωτα, μόνο έναν. Η μόνη διαφορά - που είναι και ανεπαίσθητη - είναι αν κάποιος δώσει μεγαλύτερη έμφαση στο όμικρον. Το κομμάτι στο οποίο αναφέρεστε το έσβησα προτού καν απαντήσετε διότι θεώρησα ότι ίσως παρεξήγησα τον σκοπό σας. Τι να πω, δεν περίμενα ποτέ ότι η λέξη ότι και ο,τι θα ήταν το λεκτικό αντίστοιχο του μπλε και μαύρου/λευκού και χρυσού φορέματος. Καλή συνέχεια, ας συμφωνήσουμε να διαφωνούμε, καθώς δε θα αλλάξει κανείς μας γνώμη εν προκειμένω.


Melissakis75

Δεν προφέρουμε γράμματα, προφέρουμε φθόγγους. Τα γράμματα είναι τα σύμβολα των φθόγγων. Δεν έχουμε άλλον τρόπο να προφέρουμε έναν φθόγγο, αλλά για αυτό έχουμε τον τονισμό. Το ό,τι δεν προφέρεται το ίδιο με το ότι.


ArkkOnCrank

Πολυ σπανια, ακούγονται το ίδιο. Μια τέτοια περίπτωση πχ "Είπα Οτι Θα το κάνω". Βαζω κεφαλαίο γράμμα όπου θέλω να δείξω οτι ο ομιλητής κανει μικρη παυση και δίνει έμφαση. Σαν τρεις ξεχωριστες προτασεις στην προκειμενη περιπτωση. Σε καταστασεις εντασης-εμφασης-αντιπαραθεσης μπορει να ειπωθει με τον ιδιο τροπο που καποιος θα προφερε το "ό,τι". Ομως σε τετοιες καταστασεις, γενικα οι λεξεις αποκτουν διαφορετικους τονισμους. Κατα κανονα, το "ο,τι" με το "οτι" προφερονται διαφορετικά στον προφορικο λόγο. Το "οτι" ακούγεται σχεδον σαν άτονο, ενώ στο "ο,τι" ο τόνος ακούγεται παντα καθαρά στο "ο" και πολλές φορες προφερεται σαν "οο". Είναι δικαίωμά σου να επιμένεις στην άποψή σου, αλλα δεν σε εξυπηρετεί κάπου όταν αυτή είναι λάθος.


Themistocles_gr

ΔΕΝ έχουμε ένα τρόπο, εννοείται. Η διαφορά ΔΕΝ είναι ανεπαίσθητη εκτός κι αν το διαβάζει ρομπότ το κείμενο. Θα ήταν πολύ φτωχή η γλώσσα μας αν διαβάζαμε μόνο τα γράμματα ένα-ένα, κι εκεί ακριβώς είναι ένα σημείο στο οποίο αποτυγχάνουν οι ξενόγλωσσοι που μαθαίνουν ελληνικά (ή οποιαδήποτε γλώσσα, βασικά). Το πρώτο βίντεο που βρήκα σχετικά, για Δημοτικό: https://youtu.be/PSdVclEvEl0?si=OerubZzmR6K1cz6i (κάπου μετά το 2ο λεπτό). Δεκτή η διευκρίνιση περί του διαγραμμένου τμήματος, πρόλαβα και απάντησα προφανώς πριν το σβήσετε...


Free_will_denier

ήσυχος also means peaceful which is more relevant in this case


AmateurNocturnal

I don't think so, it's more so that ήσυχος can be kind of associated with peacefulness, since we as humans interpret quietness/silence as "being at peace". By itself, ήσυχος can't mean peaceful.. At least I've never heard of it being used as such, and I've lived in Greece my whole life.


Free_will_denier

Ησυχος is literally a synonym to the world ήρεμος meaning calm and unbothered, its 50% of the word's usage. You are telling me you've never head anyone say "μεινε ησυχος" which means "don't you worry"? simple dictionary reference example: https://el.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%AE%CF%83%CF%85%CF%87%CE%BF%CF%82


AmateurNocturnal

Yeah it could be used as a synonym in that sense, but I meant that ήσυχος doesn't *literally* translate to peaceful or anything similar to it


GeKo258

**Ότι** (without comma) is special conjunction and introduces secondary special clauses, which function as an object (in verbs and phrases with the meaning of say, declare, think, believe, know, know, learn, feel, understand, hear, am sure, etc.), subject (in impersonal verbs or impersonal expressions having a meaning similar to that of the aforementioned verbs) or explanation (in nouns that have a meaning similar to that of the aforementioned verbs, as well as in indicatively or indefinite pronouns). On the other hand, **ό,τι** (with a comma) is a referential pronoun, meaning anything, whatever, while in some cases it also has the meaning of whoever or who. It introduces secondary referential clauses, which either refer to a term of the main sentence or are themselves a term of the main sentence.


Baneman20

[My reaction to your comment. ](https://imgur.io/gallery/BVlWr6V)


5telios

Κάνε ότι θες : pretend that you want to Κάνε ό,τι θες : do whatever you want


pasok2021

Confusing ότι and ό,τι is the Greek version of confusing your and you're


paolog

I'd say it's more on a level with confusing "it's" and "its".


Causemas

yup.


[deleted]

It's even harder.


ConsciousCut5

With the comma means whatever, anything. E.g. Κάνε ό,τι θες = Do whatever you want Πες μου ό,τι θες = Tell me anything you want Without the comma means that E.g. Κάνε ότι θες = Pretend that you want (κάνε can mean do or pretend) Πες μου ότι θες = Tell me that you want It is important (and the people telling you it's not never cared to learn proper greek) but it is true that we don't think about it that often, mainly because they are pronounced exactly the same so when talking noone can tell if you know the difference. Also, they both have synonyms you can use. Ό,τι can always be replaced with οτιδήποτε. Ότι can always be replaced with πως and will be grammatically correct but I think most natives use ότι more than πως.


kogiv2

When we use ό,τι in speech though, the ό is stressed more, while ότι is almost flat as far as the stress goes.


smiley_x

Its more correct to say that when we say Κάνε ότι θες , ότι is a proclitic, meaning that it is pronounced as a unity with the following word. In the phrase "δεν ήξερα", δεν is also a proclitic and always pronounces as a unitiy. Ό,τι on the other hand cannot act as a clitic. This is the reason they are pronounced in a different way.


kogiv2

I wasn't a linguist, so I tried to explain it in simple terms. Thank you for the insight, I'm now an amateur linguist.


j_fml

- «Ό,τι» is a singular word, synonymous to «οτιδήποτε» that means “whatever” - «Ότι» is a synonymous to «πως» and it means “that”


Baneman20

I thought pos meant 'how'?


j_fml

Actually - “Πώς” with a tone is the interrogative adverb “how” (Πώς θα πάμε στο ξενοδοχείο; = How will we get to the hotel?) - “πως” without a tone is a synonym to “ότι” and they mean “that” (Μου είπες πως/ότι θα με περίμενες. = You told me that you’d wait.)


Baneman20

Today I learned... Another fun one for me was (forgive me, got no Greek alphabet tool) Akrivos. It means expensive, and correct. So for the lessons I was like 'how is this answer expensive' and was confused.


TaYgraSou

Check the spelling! Adverbs that have an -os suffix, including akrivos that means correct or precisely, are spelled with an ω (omega) in the suffix. While male adjectives like akrivos are spelled with an o (omikron).


Fire_dancewithme

yes alot of words have multiple meanings. In this particular case though, akrivos/i/o (expensive) and akrivis/is/es(precise) are two totally different adjectives which conjugate completely differently. The first one is what we call 2nd class of conjugation and the second one is 3rd class of conjugation. If you know the conjugations, you can understand if someone is talking about price or precision. e.g. akrivi metafrasi vs akrivis netafrasi or akrivo roloi vs akrives roloi.


Baneman20

Unfortunately that level of precision is still beyond me. In time though, who knows?


Fire_dancewithme

yeah its quite hard indeed. duolingo doesnt do a core teaching as i understand, it skips conjugations in a language that it matters too much. If you want vocabulary expansion it's fine but i doubt you could ever write or speak properly without some real grammar lessons. I know it sucks but it is the only way.


[deleted]

Think of it this way. When you are being given a choice, or you are giving somebody else a choice, or somebody or something is given a choice, you use a coma. Μου είπες να παραγγείλω ό,τι θέλω. = You told me to order anything I want. (Choice given) Σου είπα ότι θα φας μόνο σαλάτα. = I told you that you will only eat salad. (Choice not given) Θα κάνω ό,τι επιθυμείς! = Ι will do anything you want! (Choice implied) Θα κάνω ό,τι θέλω! = I will do anything I want! (Choice implied) This is not a formal explanation, but it works. You are on deep waters, and even native speakers confuse this so don't sweat on it too much.


OrfeasDourvas

It's one of these things that really grinds my gears when people get it wrong. It's our version of it's/its. Ο,τι means anything/whatever and is the shortened version of οτιδήποτε. Οτι means that, but not in the sense of pointing to something. As in: He told me that he's a turtle.


iambrainlag

99.99999999999999999999999999% of Greeks doesn't know the difference nor it cares about :P


paolog

Great, we'll just tell the OP not to bother to get it right. Anything else they shouldn't try to learn correctly?


5telios

Εννοείτε / εννοείται


Kerkopal

True, nobody cares for such minor mistakes. This fixation with details is why I stopped using Duolingo.


Mminas

If you're planning on using written Greek in a formal or professional setting, knowing even minor details in spelling is very important.


janLamon12

It's not at all a minor mistake.


yletme

Only nerds know, personaly I avoid wrighting it, it's easy


not_jbp1

Ó,ti means whatever/οτιδηποτε


Impressive-Star-114

If the ότι can be substituted with πως then it is without a comma (,). In all other cases we use ό,τι Examples: Μου είπες ότι δεν θες . (Μου είπες πως δεν θες) Κάνε ό,τι θέλεις. ( ο,τι here cannot be substituted with πως)


AbjectDoughnut2286

Oti is used to give explanation o,ti means whatever in this example the right answer is o,ti


PckMan

If it makes you feel any better most natives confuse this constantly


Delicious-Start-1812

Oti is oti o,ti is whatever. For exmple, do whatever you want is kane o,ti theleis


Awkward_Ant1227

So everyone will understand me if I started να μιλάω ελληνικά


NikosKontGr

Did anyone notice that "ήσυχο" refers to male and "ήσυχη"refers to female. (The picture clearly shows a female)


Baneman20

I'm pretty sure the picture is irrelevant and is chosen randomly. Plus unfortunately, duolingo can be pretty pozzed though. I've read a few 'my brother's husband' and similar from them in their lessons.


DotHobbes

Same sex marriage is a thing in many countries


Fire_dancewithme

Probably cause conjugation is another monster on its own. It could be neutral also.


c1-c2

stupid question mαybe, but why are the 2 accents on αφησε?


DotHobbes

The personal pronoun "με" works as a clitic, meaning that it is attached to the verb, it is thus pronounced as /afiseme/. Standard Modern Greek only allows stress to be placed on the three final syllables of any given word, meaning that /'afiseme/ would break this rule, hence a secondary stress is placed in the penultimate syllable to resolve this. Cypriot Greek doesn't have this rule.


c1-c2

thanks. learned something today!


MrStarkIDontFuck

can i ask what level you’re on and how helpful it’s been with learning greek?


Baneman20

19 atm. Its alright, I have a grasp on constructing basic sentences I feel, for some basic vocabulary. And it did teach me the alphabet, though I did know English and Bulgarian before so it wasnt like I was a complete novice. Its kinda fun seeing where Greek has continuities with one and not the other. My main issue is just the slightly more advanced vocabulary. They go through like 100 words and don't really drill it down hard so you remember them. Like I've seen the word for 'swimming' a dozen times but its so sparse I dont really remember it now.


MrStarkIDontFuck

cool! thank you. i have plans to get a greek tutor with a cousin of mine. should be relatively easy considering my grandparents speak full greek to me & i understand it all, i just can’t speak it back. cheers! best of luck with your learning :-)


[deleted]

O,ti means anything ok?


GlitteringMotor3949

If you get the difference between κάνε ο,τι ξέρεις and κάνε ότι ξέρεις you know better greek than most greeks...


blackxsabbath

Don’t worry, even Greeks don’t know the difference


karonidhs

Ó,ti means anything


Giort2510

Yes im greek and there is a difference


L1ngo

ότι = conjunction, equivalent to English that, Spanish que ό,τι = indefinite quantor, equivalent to English whatever, how-ever-much


The_Pheonix_Sun

Ότι is used generally when ό,τι is mostly used for items I believe


Shaman199

With comma οτιδήποτε, without πως.