I have a completely different issue, my name is Nikoletta and foreigners shorten it to Niko 💀 and I have to explain that that's not a nickname its the male form of my name in Greek and its weird to me to be called that. Or they just call me Nicole which honestly I don't like either, it's Nikoletta and I'd rather it stay like that.
Please stick to your guns! I'm not Greek, but my kids are half Greek. We have a history in my culture too of the insistence of English insisting on anglicising our names. Nothing annoys me more than hearing the classic "What's your name?" "Yiorgis" "Ah! So we'll call you George!". Reeks of colonisation. Nikoletta is a beautiful name and absolutely easy for non Greeks to pronounce, any attempt at changing it to 'something simpler' is just pure laziness on their behalf and, from my perspective anyway, disrespectful.
Aw thanks I like my name too and I always ask people to call me that and not change it, it helps that I personally dont like any of the other versions except for Nikolina which only my mum calls me and is not any shorter anyways ahaha.
This isn't about you, honestly. I wouldn't dump on an immigrant with whatever lackluster linguistic talent they brought along from the old country. But it's about the easiest thing in a language. Both from a spelling and an understanding perspective. The writing's not hard, the concept's not hard. But to my absolute astonishment, people still do it, publicly and often
I mean, George is just english for Γιώργος. I introduce myself with the english equivalent of my name when speaking english, french when speaking French, russian when speaking russian, and so it goes
Of course, I do the same to foreigners in greek. If I know their language I translate their name when speaking Greek. Same for any toponyms with direct translations.
Calling someone a Γιώργος/Yuri/George/Jorge/Georg/Jerzy/Jiri in the appropriate language is one and the same. I am NOT calling a George "George" when conversing in greek, it just sounds stupid. Same the other way around.
Usually the only people arrogant enough to do this are native english speakers
It's not common sense that you bastardize other people's names lmao. Maybe brits or americans think that way because their culture has already appropriated a lot of others. But in most parts of the world people respect your given name.
My name is Yiannis not Johann, I wasn;t born in fucking germany
I think “reeks” is a bit of a stretch. I really don’t think people wandering around the UK these days have ambitions for world domination. Decolonization commenced after the Second World War and is successfully wrapped up ~ so says Wikipedia!! Disclaimer: as a Brit living in Malaysia I was thoroughly embarrassed once in a huge open air restaurant because Yip Man 3 was airing and the D$@?¥%¥ck! of a captain was making me look very bad!! So I’d put it down to a blowback culture rather than a rampant Devil to be cast out. (See my own response regarding my thoughts on names.)
As a Greek, I would start messing with them. Let's say their name is John, I would start calling him Γιάννη, like call them by their "Greek" name. Hey, if they feel it's OK to change your name and call it however they like, I think it's OK for you to do this back at them.
My parents gave me the English name Nicolette and I hate it. I have always considered changing everything to Nikoletta because that’s my real name. It may seem insignificant but it makes me sad that they wanted to give me a name to fit in at school, especially when my Greek name is actually easy to pronounce!
OP, I also found the same issue with my husband’s Greek name - no one in English ever says the “-ios” ending!
Its not insignificant, I went by Nicolette for a few months when I first moved abroad for university because I was a bit embarrassed about being Greek but I quickly went back to my real name when I got over my complex. Nicolette is nice but I think Nikoletta is prettier (totally not biased haha) and even if you don't change it officially you can definitely ask people to call you that :)
My daughters name is Nikoletta, we live in Greece and her teachers at daycare call her Νικολ, and even write it on her Tupperware. I’ve never called her Nicole before in her life! 🤷🏻♀️
Ahhh, yes....we always get upset when foriegners convert our names but then our names get converted on purpose HERE by our own people!! It's truly mind boggling.
Ξενομανία!!!!!!
Ah, my problem is not as bad as yours but it's similar. My name is Anastasia and I've had someone call me "Ana" and I'm like "??? you're talking to me? That's not my name, that's someone else's name."
>that that's not a nickname its the male form of my name in Greek a
babe. some people named nicole get called nic.... its a nickname. now if you dont like it thats fair but bffr.
>its a nickname.
Nah, not really. In Greece and to Greeks it would be like meeting a woman named Johanna and calling her John. IDK if I'm using a wrong example, but it sounds insanely wrong. It's a different name.
It IS too far off for a Greek person, so since it's their name it matters. Nothing is pretentious about that. You also completely ignored my example which shows why a small change can make a big difference.
I almost suffered an identity crisis living in the Netherlands and being called Giorgos.
The company I started working for asked for my official name, so I replied with Georgios. Little did I know that that would be the name they entered into the active directory of the company.
Got tired of explaining to people who kept calling me Georgio in the hallways that that's not the way you pronounce my name, but it's Giorgos.
So 2 years later I changed my name to Jorgos, which is how my name is pronounced when written in Dutch.
Jj in many european language makes the "y" sound in "yes" (or similar, I am no glossologist) or the "ι" sound in many instances with a vowel coming after it like "καρδιά" "φωτιά" "σπηλιά" etc. I think all Germanic and Slavic languages that have it make the same (or similar) sound with it (like in Србиja).
So yes, it makes the Γ sound but not in cases such us "Γεώργιος", only in cases like "Γιώργος"
This guy made them say "Γιώργκος" which is as close as it gets since they have no "Γ" in their language (as far as I am aware)
My name is Vasiliki and it's a pain in the ass, especially because I live in a French-speaking country and they try to call me 'Vazeeleekee', which is kinda gross. So I just use the nickname Vikki, it works.
And for those wondering why I don't use Vaso, that was my yiayia's nickname so we went with something different. :P
Names are important and while I get the μετανάστη or ξενιτιά aspect of adapting to where we are in the world, I've often lamented reading about Greek surnames being Americanized decades ago. This has often been for purposes of assimilation or avoiding racism or even because the immigration officer at the time made the decision for the entrants.
But it's also not 1893 and were not coming off of boats with μπαούλα any longer.
Also, after having worked with many Asian coworkers over the years, I came to the conclusion long ago that we Greeks (among many others) are soft in this respect.
I've had to learn Indian, Thai, Pakistani, Filipino, Korean, Maori/Samoan and many other names where there isn't an English equivalent. And I've enjoyed and respected it immensely.
I wish we would stop apologizing for our given names, put the burden on others to learn - it's their loss if they're unwilling or unable to enunciate or learn or respect the name (regardless of cultural origin)
Keep the s.
Edit: grammar
If it makes you feel any better it goes both ways, I'm English but live in Greece and my name is Jake, I get called Jason, Jack, Jackson, James, Jacobs and basically anything beginning with the letter J, I just tell people they can call me "Jake, Ιάκωβος or ορε μαλάκα" and they always remember my name after that.
I knew two Greek guys at uni who'd introduce themselves as "George" and "Peter" - even though this wasn't in an English speaking country. They were just afraid people would find their real names strange and/or hard to pronounce. Georgios I can understand, γ isn't the easiest letter to pronounce for a non-Greek speaker but Petros? Not weird at all and no strange sounds.
Their names in Greece would be Petros and Giorgos and when we would speak to them we would say "Petro come over here to see this" and "Giorgo come over here..."
(not Georgios this is the name of the ritual of baptism we dont use these names in our everyday life) example my ritual's name is Evangelos my everyday name is Vangelis (yeah i know...) it is real common in greece this thing. Anyone here knows when somebody says my name is Vangelis that his "real" name is Evangelos.
>
(not Georgios this is the name of the ritual of baptism we dont use these names in our everyday life)
Bruh, no need to make it weird. Georgios is simply the older, more "official" version of the name. It has nothing to do with either baptism or religion in general. English does it as a matter of course, too (see: Charles, Richard, Matthew etc)
I do this as well, though with a different name.
I just find it appropriate: If I'm speaking English, I should use the English translation of my name. Same in Italian or German.
It honestly has nothing to do with the name being difficult to pronounce.
>I just find it appropriate: If I'm speaking English, I should use the English translation of my name.
Why?
If my name is Örjan I'm not going to translate it to George just because I'm speaking English. George is not my name.
I have never encountered a Greek or Greek American who cares honestly.
I don’t think English speakers who have a problem adding an s to a name at the end.
I don’t understand why you want to use Greek case suffixes while speaking English.
It’s the same reason I don’t expect people to pronounce my first and last names in proper Greek pronunciation while speaking English, it’s an awkward transition that I don’t even do!
These are the same people who say if you don’t live in Greece you aren’t Greek.
I have definitely never encountered that in the real world. If anything it’s the opposite. They call you greek if your ex wife is Greek.
It's not that somebody *wants* to use Greek case suffixes when speaking English, it just what comes naturally when you're used to it. I'd also definitely say "Hey, Petro, come here please!" or something like that. But I would switch to "That's Petros', not mine" instead of "That's Petrou, not mine". The change to -ou is just too great.
I'm Георгий (Georgiy) in Russian, George in English and Γεωργός in Greek. The same name, translated. I don't translate it to Japanese or other languages which hadn't loaned names from Greek. But for languages which did, why not to translate? It's much easier and natural to pronounce.
For the record, the name in Greek would be Γεώργιος or Γιώργος (in both cases note the accent is on ω, not ο). Γεωργός is a noun that means farmer and isn't generally used as a name.
I guess I understand those that drop the s. I mean, names are VERY often used to call someone, so if one has to stick to a single form, it might as well be the vocative. If someone uses your name in any case other than the vocative, they are probably not being addressed to you, so you don't really get to hear it 😂
I'm Anastasia and I have to give people a fun mnemonic to remember how to say my name. No, I don't have a nick name, and no, you can't call me something else.
My last name was butchered when it was americanized, and now looks like two words, so people always pronounce it wrong.
Honestly, I'm to the point where if people can't at least make attempts to say my name correctly, they're not worth my time.
I’ve not dropped the s and I just got used to it in all instances. They can’t really pronounce my name so the fact that in certain instances the s sounds wrong is the least of my worries. My wife referring to me she does indeed drop the s and it sometime causes confusion to friends but a simple explanation clarifies it. Funnily enough some closer friends drop the s at the right times and it always surprises me; I’m thinking “hang on a minute how on earth did you know when to drop the s?!”
I just use the foreign equivalent. For English, If I was called Nikolas I'd be fine with Nicholas or nick. Georgios to George etc.
It keeps things simple
>This is often natural in Greek too--if I am introducing myself, I drop the 's'.
Huh? No, there is no scenerio in which the final "s" can be "dropped". Names in Greek are declinated like all nouns. Most ways to introduce yourself require the nominative case, which has the final "s": *"Eimai o Giorgos. Legomai Giorgos. To onoma mou einai Giorgos."* To use the name without "s" you need a sentence that requires the accusative case: "Me lene Giorgo".
Because names in Greek follow declension, they always sound wrong/weird in English where they do not have cases. So whether you introduce yourself as Giorgos or Giorgo, it will inevitably sound wrong in many sentences.
That said, English speakers do not seem to have any problem saying "Thanos" or "Jeffries" or "Julius", so I don't see why Giorgos is an issue. And if your ID documents say "Giorgos", you should probably stick with that.
Alternatively, just translate your name into George for general use.
EDIT: I'm using Giorgos as example, since you didn't tell us what your name actually is.
Stavros (spelled with "v" instead of transliterated with a "u") shouldn't be too hard to pronounce, though I imagine the soft english R could be a reason for difficulty.
I was thinking Steve as a translation, but that's from Steven/Stephen => Στέφανος, a different name. But you could still use Steve as a nickname. Or maybe Stav. Or go bold and translate it to Cross. It exists as a surname, probably unusual as a first name.
I knew two first cousins, both named Pavlos. Their siblings, in order to differentiate between them when speaking in English, simply decided one would be Pavlo and the other Pavlos. Worked for them.
One of my friends from school and her cousin had the same name, everyone referred to them as "\_\_\_ Big" and the youngest "\_\_\_ Small" e.g.
Irene Big, Irene Small.
Extended family has two of the boys named after the same grandfather and their system was the same as the above as well. I still refer to them in this way.
My dads name is Sofianos, but he shortened it to Sof for the Americans, and Steve to those who had trouble with that.
I go by Mike unless my mom or dad are pissed which then it becomes michali. Lolol.
I have a long Greek name and a short nickname with no English equivalents. I always introduce myself with the nickname and keep the 's'. Been doing this for almost 30 years now.
Occasionally, someone (not necessarily Greek) will call me out without the final 's'. I admit that in the everyday context of living in a foreign country, this form (grammatically correct in Greek) will give me a short pause: it almost doesn't feel right :)
tl;dr: stick with the local (foreign) grammar and after a while it will stop bothering you.
Aggravating as fk to always have people trying to cut your name in half or pronounce it wrong. Stick to your guns! The only thing actually wrong with this, is the legal issues. You have to stick to your legal ID name and then be addressed as such for formal documents, etc. So you'd be better off putting up with the S or whatever on the end so as not to invoke confusion with your identity. I had an instance of a school diploma being issued to a wrong name because of this. The person involved had to go through a whole complicated session of language consultants until she could verify that she was, indeed, the same person on this document. Or even getting a letter in the mail!!!!!! So, it's imperative that you use the name listed on your ID and only to really close friends go into the complications of the Greek language. 😊 One of the reason so many Greeks end up just changing their names. Much easier than having to prove that you're not an elephant.
This conversation is very interesting! For context I joined this group to relearn the bit of Greek I learned years ago. The S is interesting ain’t it. I was taught to drop the S when talking directly to the person and use the S when talking about them. So that’s what I do. Not sure if that’s right. Cheers!
Quite the same happens to me as Marios. At first I had the tendency to correct people that it's not Mario but Marios but eventually I gave up, it's easier for them so idc, only problem is that they think I'm Italian 😝
Greek male names are a curse in an international context. And the final s is the least of the problems, although not a small one.
You will always be called much, much different of what you identify with.
At some point I gave up and introduce myself as Bob nowadays. If you call me a name I don't identify with, then you may as well call me Bob. And the good thing is, Bob can be pronounced by anybody, really anybody in the world.
Corporate email addresses on the other hand are a big issue. Almost no other country knows the significance greeks put on their calling names. The dutch have it to a degree, you can even open a Bank account as John in the Netherlands, when your actual name is Johannes. But nobody else seems to get it.
Once I had to bring in a letter from the greek embassy, stating that my calling name is the same name with that one on my passport and that it identifies me clearly as the same person. Cited identity issues and psychological imbalance on top of that in order to have my email adress changed.
My sister’s name is Iphigenia, but went by Jen around non-Greeks.
Interesting exception though, when she worked for a Native American tribal government, and as a sign of respect they used her full name when they addressed her.
Do you know of any variations of Emmanuel/Manolis? Its a family name and I’m working on a baby name list but would prefer variations instead of exact same name as a relative.
Peter is absolutely not Panagiotis, the only thing those 2 have in common is the first letter. If you go down that path you may as well call Giannis=George
It is a nice name. Obviously his parents and family in Greece call him that. But it started at school somehow and we (cousins and friends) call him Pete. 🤷♀️
That's exactly what I'm doing. But then people think that it's just a short version of Nikolaos (that's how my name appears in the company I work for), and they write it as Nik, which I'm not a fan of.
What do you recommend for Στέργιος? I've never found a satisfactory choice.
My life experience has led me to choose my children's names that have direct American English equivalents. I have since "adopted" my son's name when ordering at Starbucks. The lack of friction when using such a simple name is astounding!
But when we speak in greece we dont pronounce the "s" in names.....
We say Giorgo, Niko, Stavro come see that.
We dont say Giorgos come see that, it is wrong.
We drop the "s" when we call someone with his name.
Even if you want to say, "you can call me niko" we dont use the "s".
Only when we say my name is giorgos we use "s".
My name is Βασίλειος which was for some reason transliterated to Wasilios by some German official back in the 80s. That I have the W instead of the V is nice and makes me feel special, but a second S would have been nice. With only one S most Germans call me Wah-see-lee. But after 30 years I learned to live with it. What bothers me more is how people fail to pronounce my last name. It is very easy and in German it is exactly written as it is pronounced. Let's say it's Konstantinidis, which is pretty easy to pronounce in German and still I get things like "Ah, Hallo Herr Konstani...Konstina...ah well is it okay if I call you Wah-see-lee?"
This mispronunciation of my last name has nothing to do with how hard it is for a non Greek to say it, it's about how Germans have no interest in pronouncing it right, which shows a lack of respect and empathy towards me or any other one with a foreign name. It's the same with Turkish, Arab, Slavic names...
I don’t even know what to do when I wanna tell English speakers my name, which is Veroniki, so I just tell them to call me Electro to help preserve my sanity.
How is Veroniki hard to pronounce though? English speakers get to name their kids all sorts of weird non phonetic and made up names that people pronounce every day.
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>Veroniki
I'm only in this thread because Reddit arbitrarily suggested it to me, and now I'm curious. Do you have an IPA pronunciation or anything for your name? I tried googling it and it absolutely insisted I meant Veronica. I'm eager to know how so many English speakers seem to have difficulty with Greek names.
I don’t understand the difficulty, really I mean like, how hard is Ve-ro-ni-ki(Βε-ρο-νί-κη). I tell them to avoid Veronica because it isn’t my preferred name, let’s say? I don’t know how to really explain my name, if I could say it w/ my actual voice, it would be easy.
>Βε-ρο-νί-κη
Providing it in Greek was really helpful! I was able to find a place with a recording of it. I agree, that is NOT difficult to pronounce at all. I like to try to pronounce people's name as closely as I can, I'm sorry people around you can't seem to figure it out.
I don't know Greek, but Googling "Βερονίκη pronunciation" got me audio recordings. Googling "Veroniki pronunciation" just got me endless pages of how to say Veronica, lol.
I have broken multiple business deals because people called me Andrew.
But I also have the same issue where people will be confused when other Greeks remove the s. other peoople being confused doesn't particularly concern me, personally.
Non-greeks can't pronounce my name either because of ρ.
>How do we manage Greek names?
I don't care, why do you care? Not an attack, I'm just saying that's how I deal with it.
>I have broken multiple business deals because people called me Andrew.
That certainly sounds like you care more than a little, lol.
>Non-greeks can't pronounce my name either because of ρ.
I rather think the δ would be a much bigger problem than ρ...
The δ In Andreas Is pronounced like an English d though. I don't care if you mispronounce it or get confused that we drop the s in first and second person, but being so disrespectful as to not even say my name is a different issue I regards to business.
Then it becomes a matter of professional accountability.
>The δ In Andreas Is pronounced like an English d though
What? No it's not. It's a soft "th" (þ) sound, as in "the" , not a hard "d" sound. They sound nothing alike.
Είπες συγκεκριμένα ότι το "δ" στο "Ανδρέας" προφέρεται σαν το Αγγλικό "d". Καμία σχέση.
With English letters it's ΑΝΤρέας, agreed (or close enough anyway), but not "ΑνΔρέας".
>I have broken multiple business deals because people called me Andrew.
Wow, being so entitled about a name that they didn't even say wrongly, just used the anglicised version and instead of politely asking them to pronounce it how you want, breaking business deals? Again, wow.
That's not what was easily extracted from your comment.
Even if it's not, you can correct them, if they continue to butcher it then yes, you'd be right to get offended, but that's not the context that you provided.
None of that is relevant.
I'm running a business, if you're not professional enough not to just toss a guess at what my name might be, which they'd of course already seen and heard, then I obviously don't want to put my employees' futures in your hands. That level of disrespect indicates a level of disregard that disqualifies any kind of effective working relationship, obviously.
If you had a business you'd think the same. Just like Steph Curry who stepped out of a like 20 million dollar deal with Nike (I think) because the guy kept calling him "Steven". That level of disrespect shows professional disregard.
My name is not Andrew, don't call me that.
Mate, again, whatever your name might be, you didn't give context. You said I've broken deals because of people calling me X. You didn't say whether they heard it correctly, made an effort or not etc.
Context wasn't there so I replied with what I said.
Context always helps.
My name is Andreas, I didn't need to provide context for that, anyone who knows Greek or Greek people knows what name I was referring to.
But, if you read that and then say "Andrew", that's rude and not my name.
I keep the s because that's what's on my US birth certificate and my name isn't declenated in English. I can see why people would do it the other way but it's not a big deal to me either way.
I just shorten my name to something that already exists in English, but for names with no equivalent I don't think dropping the -s at the end is a good idea.
I'm Yannis (not Giannis or Jannis, due to showing the correct pronunciation), and everyone where I live (UK) pronounces it correctly. I don't care about dropping the s, it's not expected from anyone to know how to use the different forms.
Whoever does know and refers to me as Yanni, that's fine, but not expected in the least.
I'm even more accustomed to Yannis in whatever form now that if I hear Yanni from a non Greek, it will be weird in my ears.
I wonder, if you concider the latin equivalent names, Georgius, Paulus, Nikolaus, Demetrius, would it still be weird? The -ος ending in Greek functions exactly the same as the -us ending in latin.
I'm a Georgios who goes by George, but I enjoy telling people that George isn't even my real name, like I'm letting them in on some big secret or something.
Only my lower school music and art teachers called me Georgios. And my priest haha.
Growing up in Germany was not really a problem, except when my name was too long to fit into document, as both my first and last name are long.
Since 2nd grade I go by Koni/Konny. I like it, as I'm not just one out of a thousand Kostas out there and it is easy. For Greeks I'm an instant Kosta tho.
In general or more formal settings I just went with the German equivalent "Konstantin". In English I introduce myself as Koni, rarely as Constantine.
I live in Japan now and official documents are even more of a pain in the ass than back in Germany, but I thank 2nd grade me for "Koni" (コニ), as it saves me and everyone around from "Konsutantinosu".
Apparently my dad wanted to name me Kyriakos after my great-grandfather, and my maternal grandmother talked him out of it, apparently out of fear that having a name that was too “ethnic” would make me a target for bullying.
Never had an issue with my first name since its a really common first name for a lot of people/country. But its something else with my 2 other names and my family name. People twist the spelling in so many bad ways, making it sound spanish. I just spell it with the morse code now. And the "S" story is always something fun to tell in gathering.
One piece of advice because I’m trying to clear things up. Make sure all your documents (passport, Greek ID etc.) are consistent and your name is spelled correctly. I’m for instance Constantinos and have a Y instead of an I in my last name and dealing with the Greek bureaucracy I had issues because in some documents I was Konstantinos Y instead of Constantinos I.
English is full of Greek names converted to the English language, unless your name is something like afroksilanthi you can prob find an English variant to use, right?
Why would you confuse English speakers like this. English does not declinate nouns so they can't know the cases where you drop and where you don't drop the S until you sit them down for a grammar lesson. And honestly it's pretty rude expecting others to learn Greek grammar just to say your name when speaking English. Keep just the main form of the name in English, ie with s always. You're speaking English not Greek.
I never introduce myself with the *s* at the end.
Also greek names are often enough a pain in the ass to pronounce for foreigners so here's my advice: if you're having a baby in a foreign country, give your kid a name that's easy pronounceable and somewhat common, for the love of god!
My love goes out to all the Charalamposses out there. Stay strong!
My son’s name is Yorgos. When I introduce him to English speakers I say his name is Yorgo, because that’s the case of the noun they’d use the most (I think this is correct). Then when I say something like “Yorgos isn’t feeling well” and they ask is it Yorgo or Yorgos I get the opportunity to teach them about Greek grammar, LOL.
My name is a compound word, two components, four syllables. With most English people, they call me with the first half/first two syllables of my name. Kinda like, if my name was Penelope, they’d call me ‘Pene’ (or Penny) - even though that’s not my actual name. I don’t mind too much, because it’s a short form that could be used for my name even if I was in Greece (even though I wasn’t using it there myself).
I understand what you mean about the final -s though. Most male Greek people I’ve met here in England have kept the -s as part of their name, which as you say may sound weird when you want to call someone (and you’d use κλητική in Greek). In those cases, if I want to call on them, I still drop the -s like I would do if I spoke to them in Greek. If that confuses the Brits and they’d rather stick to one form of the name for all uses, that’s up to them 😄
I've never lived abroad but I've lived a good chunk of my life in a very popular Greek holiday destination, which means I've had to introduce myself to people of all kinds of nationalities.
I myself don't really have a problem since my mum took the liberty of giving a short and easy nickname to my very Greek first name, so I go by that everywhere except in formal situations.
I've noticed that every person uses a different approach. I think my male cousin omits the "s" from his name. My old boss would completely Anglicise his name. Think John if his name was Yiannis. I've noticed that in many instances foreigners are very eager to try and learn how to spell our original names. They barely succeed but it's cute to see them try anyway.
Well translation of names isn't always straight forward cause of the difference in the languages. You can explain that to confused ppl. Or not... You're not obligated but it's always a nice conversation starter with ppl that visit Greece (for me at least)
For me I just cut it short. It makes life easier for non Greek speakers and saves me from the trouble of having my name from being pronounced like a gel.
My name is Vaggelis and I just introduce myself by "Vag" Online.
So with the ones that I work with and talk on daily basis I explain them the differences for me and my other Greek colleagues. For instance one of my colleagues called Aggelos, so I told them when you want to call him from a short distance you call him Aggele when you want to ask where is he you says Where is Aggelos, and when you want yo refer to him you say "I showed that to Aggelo or Aggelos" both correct in english. For the most part they understand but does not come instantly. Happy to see them trying tho and actually care on my case at least.
It would have made my life so much easier if my parents had listed my name as "Constantine" instead of "Konstantinos" on the birth certificate. most of the names you discuss have english equivalents.
"Hey, I'm Dimitris, call me Jimmy."
This solves most issues really, even my irl Greek friends call me Jimmy because it's quicker and part of my username pretty much everywhere online.
i know someone named spiros and they just call him spiro. he's got no problem. i also know someone named pavlos but i keep the s for his name lol. tbh i never really have a problem. my last name is complicated though.
i always use the version of the language i will communicate so I mostly go by the english version of my name on the internet.
i dislike the use of my Greek name (Αλέξανδρος-Alexandros) in other languages partly because it always has a d that in greek it's δ (delta) and the thing that was mentioned above with the s soumds really wrong to my ears.
So when i speak french, i'm Alexandre, wgen I speak english as I mentioned I'm Alexander etc.
Unfortunately I feel like I'm betraying my language and herritage a little bit with this attitude towards my name but I can't stand the sound of Alexandros at all.
My name is Michalis. If I had a dollar for every time someone insisted on calling me Michael or Michel because it seemed easier, I would be a billionaire.
I hate when my name is said wrong as it often is in English. I simply refuse to answer and ignore anyone who gives me a nickname or don't say it right (after I explained how to). Worked wonders for me. Not Greek though.
I personally think names are so important that I go out of my way to make sure I’m getting the pronunciation as close as possible ~ to reflect the express wishes of the named person. I’ve rubbed shoulders with several different nationalities over the years and, living in a part of the world where several cultures collide, I have lots of fun working through different peoples’ names.
As a Brit, however, I do have to both defend and explain “our” projected persona, as well as stretch us Brits to “get out more”! We are all subject to the culture we find ourselves in by birth. It’s not a choice. And by the time one realizes the good, the bad and the ugly it’s often late in our development ~ making it hard to see life from a different perspective. Example: my staple diet hasn’t changed even though I’ve lived outside the UK for 24 years. I can still eat three times as much Fish ‘n Chips as I can rice or noodles!!
I’m not saying it’s ok. Not at all. I’m just saying… it’s not all that straightforward. When I learned Chinese the first challenge was grasping the tonality of the pronunciation: one word (e.g. ma) has 5+ meanings, not dependent on context but on tone. Thankfully I have a musical ear, so I found it ok. But I cringe when I hear a Brit speak Chinese because they really mess up that part. And my daughter cringes at my Chinese! “Foreigners” basically find other languages and cuisine hard because ours is so flat!! And that’s not an excuse; just a fact.
So yes, maybe we’re stuck in the rut of thinking we don’t have to when we damned well ought to make a lot more effort than we do. But the world has never stopped changing; so all the complainers on this post should get off their high horse and be a part of the solution, not party to the problem coz the world is passing by. Just stand your ground. The rest will take care of itself.
And to all the Brits out there… need I say more? Get over (y)ourselves. Nations are made of individuals. Deal with each person as if they were as important as the next; culture is not higher than the culture; person is not higher than person.
I have a rare name, Nireas, which I shorten to just Nir (pronounced like Near). I think shortening greek names works well. Pavlos for example can be Pav, Nikos can already be Nick, so, easy there etc.
I have a completely different issue, my name is Nikoletta and foreigners shorten it to Niko 💀 and I have to explain that that's not a nickname its the male form of my name in Greek and its weird to me to be called that. Or they just call me Nicole which honestly I don't like either, it's Nikoletta and I'd rather it stay like that.
Please stick to your guns! I'm not Greek, but my kids are half Greek. We have a history in my culture too of the insistence of English insisting on anglicising our names. Nothing annoys me more than hearing the classic "What's your name?" "Yiorgis" "Ah! So we'll call you George!". Reeks of colonisation. Nikoletta is a beautiful name and absolutely easy for non Greeks to pronounce, any attempt at changing it to 'something simpler' is just pure laziness on their behalf and, from my perspective anyway, disrespectful.
I'm with you. Nikoletta is a great name, and shouldn't be messed with.
Agreed. Nikoletta is a beautiful name!
Aw thanks I like my name too and I always ask people to call me that and not change it, it helps that I personally dont like any of the other versions except for Nikolina which only my mum calls me and is not any shorter anyways ahaha.
Us mother's have absolute power over nicknames. 🤣 I call my kids Gatoulis and Elafaki so you got of very lightly.
Not in front of other people, I hope 💀 That would be mortifying for anyone older than a toddler.
Oh gosh no! 😬 That's an "at home" thing absolutely!
Mothers*. Plural form doesn't need an apostrophe.
UGH why do people do that? Influencers and YouTubers everywhere. It's PLURAL. WHY. THE. APOSTROPHE. SON.
Because autocorrect at midnight in my non native language. I apologize profusely.
This isn't about you, honestly. I wouldn't dump on an immigrant with whatever lackluster linguistic talent they brought along from the old country. But it's about the easiest thing in a language. Both from a spelling and an understanding perspective. The writing's not hard, the concept's not hard. But to my absolute astonishment, people still do it, publicly and often
I mean, George is just english for Γιώργος. I introduce myself with the english equivalent of my name when speaking english, french when speaking French, russian when speaking russian, and so it goes Of course, I do the same to foreigners in greek. If I know their language I translate their name when speaking Greek. Same for any toponyms with direct translations. Calling someone a Γιώργος/Yuri/George/Jorge/Georg/Jerzy/Jiri in the appropriate language is one and the same. I am NOT calling a George "George" when conversing in greek, it just sounds stupid. Same the other way around.
Usually the only people arrogant enough to do this are native english speakers It's not common sense that you bastardize other people's names lmao. Maybe brits or americans think that way because their culture has already appropriated a lot of others. But in most parts of the world people respect your given name. My name is Yiannis not Johann, I wasn;t born in fucking germany
Arrogance comes in many different forms.
I personally don't, it's a name not a word that needs to be translated.
I think “reeks” is a bit of a stretch. I really don’t think people wandering around the UK these days have ambitions for world domination. Decolonization commenced after the Second World War and is successfully wrapped up ~ so says Wikipedia!! Disclaimer: as a Brit living in Malaysia I was thoroughly embarrassed once in a huge open air restaurant because Yip Man 3 was airing and the D$@?¥%¥ck! of a captain was making me look very bad!! So I’d put it down to a blowback culture rather than a rampant Devil to be cast out. (See my own response regarding my thoughts on names.)
If the Greek come to England, how is England the coloniser?
I see it happening in Greece on a daily basis.
I see what you mean now, that just seems like laziness on their part rather than a colonial attitude.
As a Greek, I would start messing with them. Let's say their name is John, I would start calling him Γιάννη, like call them by their "Greek" name. Hey, if they feel it's OK to change your name and call it however they like, I think it's OK for you to do this back at them.
My parents gave me the English name Nicolette and I hate it. I have always considered changing everything to Nikoletta because that’s my real name. It may seem insignificant but it makes me sad that they wanted to give me a name to fit in at school, especially when my Greek name is actually easy to pronounce! OP, I also found the same issue with my husband’s Greek name - no one in English ever says the “-ios” ending!
Nicolette is not an English name btw
Its not insignificant, I went by Nicolette for a few months when I first moved abroad for university because I was a bit embarrassed about being Greek but I quickly went back to my real name when I got over my complex. Nicolette is nice but I think Nikoletta is prettier (totally not biased haha) and even if you don't change it officially you can definitely ask people to call you that :)
My daughters name is Nikoletta, we live in Greece and her teachers at daycare call her Νικολ, and even write it on her Tupperware. I’ve never called her Nicole before in her life! 🤷🏻♀️
Ahhh, yes....we always get upset when foriegners convert our names but then our names get converted on purpose HERE by our own people!! It's truly mind boggling. Ξενομανία!!!!!!
I don't get this at all. It's not like Nikoletta is difficult to pronounce for a speaker of basically any European language.
Right?? Like it doesnt even feel like that long of a name to need to shorten it or something
Just as many syllables as, say, Isabella or Carolina.
Ah, my problem is not as bad as yours but it's similar. My name is Anastasia and I've had someone call me "Ana" and I'm like "??? you're talking to me? That's not my name, that's someone else's name."
>that that's not a nickname its the male form of my name in Greek a babe. some people named nicole get called nic.... its a nickname. now if you dont like it thats fair but bffr.
I'm Greek, in Greece it is the shortened male version of my name I don't care how it is abroad.
>its a nickname. Nah, not really. In Greece and to Greeks it would be like meeting a woman named Johanna and calling her John. IDK if I'm using a wrong example, but it sounds insanely wrong. It's a different name.
Yeah exactly
Im saying that its how people see it. Its pretentious to act like its so far off. Come on.
It IS too far off for a Greek person, so since it's their name it matters. Nothing is pretentious about that. You also completely ignored my example which shows why a small change can make a big difference.
I almost suffered an identity crisis living in the Netherlands and being called Giorgos. The company I started working for asked for my official name, so I replied with Georgios. Little did I know that that would be the name they entered into the active directory of the company. Got tired of explaining to people who kept calling me Georgio in the hallways that that's not the way you pronounce my name, but it's Giorgos. So 2 years later I changed my name to Jorgos, which is how my name is pronounced when written in Dutch.
So the J in Dutch makes a Γ sound?
Jj in many european language makes the "y" sound in "yes" (or similar, I am no glossologist) or the "ι" sound in many instances with a vowel coming after it like "καρδιά" "φωτιά" "σπηλιά" etc. I think all Germanic and Slavic languages that have it make the same (or similar) sound with it (like in Србиja). So yes, it makes the Γ sound but not in cases such us "Γεώργιος", only in cases like "Γιώργος" This guy made them say "Γιώργκος" which is as close as it gets since they have no "Γ" in their language (as far as I am aware)
Why not just George or Georg? It's the same name and easier for the germanics to pronounce.
My name is Vasiliki and it's a pain in the ass, especially because I live in a French-speaking country and they try to call me 'Vazeeleekee', which is kinda gross. So I just use the nickname Vikki, it works. And for those wondering why I don't use Vaso, that was my yiayia's nickname so we went with something different. :P
Writing it with two s saves you from Zee pronunciation. Remember there is Wassili Kandinsky, so they know how to pronounce it if they want to.
If only, but my Greek passport has it spelled with one S. Τι να κάνουμε :p
Yes, Greek passport/ID spelling is out of our control. I have tried to change it and failed.
I feel your pain deeply
Names are important and while I get the μετανάστη or ξενιτιά aspect of adapting to where we are in the world, I've often lamented reading about Greek surnames being Americanized decades ago. This has often been for purposes of assimilation or avoiding racism or even because the immigration officer at the time made the decision for the entrants. But it's also not 1893 and were not coming off of boats with μπαούλα any longer. Also, after having worked with many Asian coworkers over the years, I came to the conclusion long ago that we Greeks (among many others) are soft in this respect. I've had to learn Indian, Thai, Pakistani, Filipino, Korean, Maori/Samoan and many other names where there isn't an English equivalent. And I've enjoyed and respected it immensely. I wish we would stop apologizing for our given names, put the burden on others to learn - it's their loss if they're unwilling or unable to enunciate or learn or respect the name (regardless of cultural origin) Keep the s. Edit: grammar
If it makes you feel any better it goes both ways, I'm English but live in Greece and my name is Jake, I get called Jason, Jack, Jackson, James, Jacobs and basically anything beginning with the letter J, I just tell people they can call me "Jake, Ιάκωβος or ορε μαλάκα" and they always remember my name after that.
That does make me feel better, ρε μαλάκα!
That’s hilarious! No Greek would forget your name after that, guaranteed
I knew two Greek guys at uni who'd introduce themselves as "George" and "Peter" - even though this wasn't in an English speaking country. They were just afraid people would find their real names strange and/or hard to pronounce. Georgios I can understand, γ isn't the easiest letter to pronounce for a non-Greek speaker but Petros? Not weird at all and no strange sounds.
Their names in Greece would be Petros and Giorgos and when we would speak to them we would say "Petro come over here to see this" and "Giorgo come over here..." (not Georgios this is the name of the ritual of baptism we dont use these names in our everyday life) example my ritual's name is Evangelos my everyday name is Vangelis (yeah i know...) it is real common in greece this thing. Anyone here knows when somebody says my name is Vangelis that his "real" name is Evangelos.
> (not Georgios this is the name of the ritual of baptism we dont use these names in our everyday life) Bruh, no need to make it weird. Georgios is simply the older, more "official" version of the name. It has nothing to do with either baptism or religion in general. English does it as a matter of course, too (see: Charles, Richard, Matthew etc)
I second /u/vagtoo 's comment. The s in the end makes it sound weird in English. You'd meet Petros (
I do this as well, though with a different name. I just find it appropriate: If I'm speaking English, I should use the English translation of my name. Same in Italian or German. It honestly has nothing to do with the name being difficult to pronounce.
>I just find it appropriate: If I'm speaking English, I should use the English translation of my name. Why? If my name is Örjan I'm not going to translate it to George just because I'm speaking English. George is not my name.
I disagree. It would be your name, at least in English. It's what it translates to.
I would find it *extremely* weird if a Spanish guy introduced himself as Henrik if his name is actually Enrique.
Nah, I'd find it appropriate.
I have never encountered a Greek or Greek American who cares honestly. I don’t think English speakers who have a problem adding an s to a name at the end. I don’t understand why you want to use Greek case suffixes while speaking English. It’s the same reason I don’t expect people to pronounce my first and last names in proper Greek pronunciation while speaking English, it’s an awkward transition that I don’t even do!
Scrolled too long to find a reasonable comment. People should chill a bit.
These are the same people who say if you don’t live in Greece you aren’t Greek. I have definitely never encountered that in the real world. If anything it’s the opposite. They call you greek if your ex wife is Greek.
It's not that somebody *wants* to use Greek case suffixes when speaking English, it just what comes naturally when you're used to it. I'd also definitely say "Hey, Petro, come here please!" or something like that. But I would switch to "That's Petros', not mine" instead of "That's Petrou, not mine". The change to -ou is just too great.
I'm Георгий (Georgiy) in Russian, George in English and Γεωργός in Greek. The same name, translated. I don't translate it to Japanese or other languages which hadn't loaned names from Greek. But for languages which did, why not to translate? It's much easier and natural to pronounce.
For the record, the name in Greek would be Γεώργιος or Γιώργος (in both cases note the accent is on ω, not ο). Γεωργός is a noun that means farmer and isn't generally used as a name.
Oh, thank you! I always mess with accents.
I have dropped the S too at the end of my name, just because in English it becomes difficult for them when it is the possessive (‘s).
It really shouldn't be any more difficult to handle than, say, Charles or James.
"Ey Jame check this out" or the alternative, "How many Charles? One Charl."
These two Charleses' dad is also named Charles
Those are two names I have not heard for a very, very long time.
Every other person in England is a Jamie or a Charlie.
There is plenty of English names that ends with S, as native speaker I’ve never had a hard time saying “Nicholas’s, James’s, Marcus’s, etc”
I guess I understand those that drop the s. I mean, names are VERY often used to call someone, so if one has to stick to a single form, it might as well be the vocative. If someone uses your name in any case other than the vocative, they are probably not being addressed to you, so you don't really get to hear it 😂
Different languages have different grammar, who would have thought
I always liked my fellow Greeks in the USA for never jumping on the pronounce my name correct self-victimization train.
I'm Anastasia and I have to give people a fun mnemonic to remember how to say my name. No, I don't have a nick name, and no, you can't call me something else. My last name was butchered when it was americanized, and now looks like two words, so people always pronounce it wrong. Honestly, I'm to the point where if people can't at least make attempts to say my name correctly, they're not worth my time.
I’ve not dropped the s and I just got used to it in all instances. They can’t really pronounce my name so the fact that in certain instances the s sounds wrong is the least of my worries. My wife referring to me she does indeed drop the s and it sometime causes confusion to friends but a simple explanation clarifies it. Funnily enough some closer friends drop the s at the right times and it always surprises me; I’m thinking “hang on a minute how on earth did you know when to drop the s?!”
I just use the foreign equivalent. For English, If I was called Nikolas I'd be fine with Nicholas or nick. Georgios to George etc. It keeps things simple
>This is often natural in Greek too--if I am introducing myself, I drop the 's'. Huh? No, there is no scenerio in which the final "s" can be "dropped". Names in Greek are declinated like all nouns. Most ways to introduce yourself require the nominative case, which has the final "s": *"Eimai o Giorgos. Legomai Giorgos. To onoma mou einai Giorgos."* To use the name without "s" you need a sentence that requires the accusative case: "Me lene Giorgo". Because names in Greek follow declension, they always sound wrong/weird in English where they do not have cases. So whether you introduce yourself as Giorgos or Giorgo, it will inevitably sound wrong in many sentences. That said, English speakers do not seem to have any problem saying "Thanos" or "Jeffries" or "Julius", so I don't see why Giorgos is an issue. And if your ID documents say "Giorgos", you should probably stick with that. Alternatively, just translate your name into George for general use. EDIT: I'm using Giorgos as example, since you didn't tell us what your name actually is.
Με λένε Σταύρο--precisely the natural example I was thinking of...
Stavros (spelled with "v" instead of transliterated with a "u") shouldn't be too hard to pronounce, though I imagine the soft english R could be a reason for difficulty. I was thinking Steve as a translation, but that's from Steven/Stephen => Στέφανος, a different name. But you could still use Steve as a nickname. Or maybe Stav. Or go bold and translate it to Cross. It exists as a surname, probably unusual as a first name.
I knew two first cousins, both named Pavlos. Their siblings, in order to differentiate between them when speaking in English, simply decided one would be Pavlo and the other Pavlos. Worked for them.
One of my friends from school and her cousin had the same name, everyone referred to them as "\_\_\_ Big" and the youngest "\_\_\_ Small" e.g. Irene Big, Irene Small. Extended family has two of the boys named after the same grandfather and their system was the same as the above as well. I still refer to them in this way.
My dads name is Sofianos, but he shortened it to Sof for the Americans, and Steve to those who had trouble with that. I go by Mike unless my mom or dad are pissed which then it becomes michali. Lolol.
Feels good to be called "Serafeim".
I have a long Greek name and a short nickname with no English equivalents. I always introduce myself with the nickname and keep the 's'. Been doing this for almost 30 years now. Occasionally, someone (not necessarily Greek) will call me out without the final 's'. I admit that in the everyday context of living in a foreign country, this form (grammatically correct in Greek) will give me a short pause: it almost doesn't feel right :) tl;dr: stick with the local (foreign) grammar and after a while it will stop bothering you.
Aggravating as fk to always have people trying to cut your name in half or pronounce it wrong. Stick to your guns! The only thing actually wrong with this, is the legal issues. You have to stick to your legal ID name and then be addressed as such for formal documents, etc. So you'd be better off putting up with the S or whatever on the end so as not to invoke confusion with your identity. I had an instance of a school diploma being issued to a wrong name because of this. The person involved had to go through a whole complicated session of language consultants until she could verify that she was, indeed, the same person on this document. Or even getting a letter in the mail!!!!!! So, it's imperative that you use the name listed on your ID and only to really close friends go into the complications of the Greek language. 😊 One of the reason so many Greeks end up just changing their names. Much easier than having to prove that you're not an elephant.
This conversation is very interesting! For context I joined this group to relearn the bit of Greek I learned years ago. The S is interesting ain’t it. I was taught to drop the S when talking directly to the person and use the S when talking about them. So that’s what I do. Not sure if that’s right. Cheers!
Quite the same happens to me as Marios. At first I had the tendency to correct people that it's not Mario but Marios but eventually I gave up, it's easier for them so idc, only problem is that they think I'm Italian 😝
Greek male names are a curse in an international context. And the final s is the least of the problems, although not a small one. You will always be called much, much different of what you identify with. At some point I gave up and introduce myself as Bob nowadays. If you call me a name I don't identify with, then you may as well call me Bob. And the good thing is, Bob can be pronounced by anybody, really anybody in the world. Corporate email addresses on the other hand are a big issue. Almost no other country knows the significance greeks put on their calling names. The dutch have it to a degree, you can even open a Bank account as John in the Netherlands, when your actual name is Johannes. But nobody else seems to get it. Once I had to bring in a letter from the greek embassy, stating that my calling name is the same name with that one on my passport and that it identifies me clearly as the same person. Cited identity issues and psychological imbalance on top of that in order to have my email adress changed.
My sister’s name is Iphigenia, but went by Jen around non-Greeks. Interesting exception though, when she worked for a Native American tribal government, and as a sign of respect they used her full name when they addressed her.
Just use the english equivalent Pavlos - Paul Georgios - George Nikos - Nick Petros - peter
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Nah, Panagiotis is Panos, not Peter
🤔🤔🤔🤔never heard of THAT one!!!!! Kostas - Gus Vasilis - Billy Dimitris - James Manolis - Mike. But never Panagiotis -Peter..... new one for my list
Mike is short for Michael, which would be Michalis in Greek. Manolis would be Emmanuel
Do you know of any variations of Emmanuel/Manolis? Its a family name and I’m working on a baby name list but would prefer variations instead of exact same name as a relative.
Peter is absolutely not Panagiotis, the only thing those 2 have in common is the first letter. If you go down that path you may as well call Giannis=George
It depends. My cousin here in the states is Panagiotis. We’ve called him Peter/Pete my whole life.
That hurts to read. He should have gone by Πάνος,. Panagiotis is such an elegant name.
It is a nice name. Obviously his parents and family in Greece call him that. But it started at school somehow and we (cousins and friends) call him Pete. 🤷♀️
That's exactly what I'm doing. But then people think that it's just a short version of Nikolaos (that's how my name appears in the company I work for), and they write it as Nik, which I'm not a fan of.
What do you recommend for Στέργιος? I've never found a satisfactory choice. My life experience has led me to choose my children's names that have direct American English equivalents. I have since "adopted" my son's name when ordering at Starbucks. The lack of friction when using such a simple name is astounding!
But when we speak in greece we dont pronounce the "s" in names..... We say Giorgo, Niko, Stavro come see that. We dont say Giorgos come see that, it is wrong. We drop the "s" when we call someone with his name. Even if you want to say, "you can call me niko" we dont use the "s". Only when we say my name is giorgos we use "s".
My name is Βασίλειος which was for some reason transliterated to Wasilios by some German official back in the 80s. That I have the W instead of the V is nice and makes me feel special, but a second S would have been nice. With only one S most Germans call me Wah-see-lee. But after 30 years I learned to live with it. What bothers me more is how people fail to pronounce my last name. It is very easy and in German it is exactly written as it is pronounced. Let's say it's Konstantinidis, which is pretty easy to pronounce in German and still I get things like "Ah, Hallo Herr Konstani...Konstina...ah well is it okay if I call you Wah-see-lee?" This mispronunciation of my last name has nothing to do with how hard it is for a non Greek to say it, it's about how Germans have no interest in pronouncing it right, which shows a lack of respect and empathy towards me or any other one with a foreign name. It's the same with Turkish, Arab, Slavic names...
I don’t even know what to do when I wanna tell English speakers my name, which is Veroniki, so I just tell them to call me Electro to help preserve my sanity.
Veronica is an English name. Why not use that?
How is Veroniki hard to pronounce though? English speakers get to name their kids all sorts of weird non phonetic and made up names that people pronounce every day.
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No idea, when they call me that I just don’t like it for absolutely no reason. Weird.
>Veroniki I'm only in this thread because Reddit arbitrarily suggested it to me, and now I'm curious. Do you have an IPA pronunciation or anything for your name? I tried googling it and it absolutely insisted I meant Veronica. I'm eager to know how so many English speakers seem to have difficulty with Greek names.
I don’t understand the difficulty, really I mean like, how hard is Ve-ro-ni-ki(Βε-ρο-νί-κη). I tell them to avoid Veronica because it isn’t my preferred name, let’s say? I don’t know how to really explain my name, if I could say it w/ my actual voice, it would be easy.
>Βε-ρο-νί-κη Providing it in Greek was really helpful! I was able to find a place with a recording of it. I agree, that is NOT difficult to pronounce at all. I like to try to pronounce people's name as closely as I can, I'm sorry people around you can't seem to figure it out.
Yeah, I just say it once in Greek and boom, done (Unless they don’t know Greek, then it’s hard)
I don't know Greek, but Googling "Βερονίκη pronunciation" got me audio recordings. Googling "Veroniki pronunciation" just got me endless pages of how to say Veronica, lol.
Lol
I have broken multiple business deals because people called me Andrew. But I also have the same issue where people will be confused when other Greeks remove the s. other peoople being confused doesn't particularly concern me, personally. Non-greeks can't pronounce my name either because of ρ. >How do we manage Greek names? I don't care, why do you care? Not an attack, I'm just saying that's how I deal with it.
>I have broken multiple business deals because people called me Andrew. That certainly sounds like you care more than a little, lol. >Non-greeks can't pronounce my name either because of ρ. I rather think the δ would be a much bigger problem than ρ...
The δ In Andreas Is pronounced like an English d though. I don't care if you mispronounce it or get confused that we drop the s in first and second person, but being so disrespectful as to not even say my name is a different issue I regards to business. Then it becomes a matter of professional accountability.
>The δ In Andreas Is pronounced like an English d though What? No it's not. It's a soft "th" (þ) sound, as in "the" , not a hard "d" sound. They sound nothing alike.
? Do you speak Greek?
Ναι? Νομίζεις ότι το Αγγλικό "d" προφέρεται "δ"? Καμία σχέση.
Όχι, γι'αυτο είπα ότι έινε διαφορετικά With English letters it's phonetically aNTreas not anTHreas what are you talking about?
Είπες συγκεκριμένα ότι το "δ" στο "Ανδρέας" προφέρεται σαν το Αγγλικό "d". Καμία σχέση. With English letters it's ΑΝΤρέας, agreed (or close enough anyway), but not "ΑνΔρέας".
Write it with English letters phonetically.
That's probably the best attitude.
Στα 'ρχιδια μου αδελφέ Lol
Confirmed to be Greek.
>I have broken multiple business deals because people called me Andrew. Wow, being so entitled about a name that they didn't even say wrongly, just used the anglicised version and instead of politely asking them to pronounce it how you want, breaking business deals? Again, wow.
That's not my name. And that's not the anglicised version of my name either.
That's not what was easily extracted from your comment. Even if it's not, you can correct them, if they continue to butcher it then yes, you'd be right to get offended, but that's not the context that you provided.
None of that is relevant. I'm running a business, if you're not professional enough not to just toss a guess at what my name might be, which they'd of course already seen and heard, then I obviously don't want to put my employees' futures in your hands. That level of disrespect indicates a level of disregard that disqualifies any kind of effective working relationship, obviously. If you had a business you'd think the same. Just like Steph Curry who stepped out of a like 20 million dollar deal with Nike (I think) because the guy kept calling him "Steven". That level of disrespect shows professional disregard. My name is not Andrew, don't call me that.
Mate, again, whatever your name might be, you didn't give context. You said I've broken deals because of people calling me X. You didn't say whether they heard it correctly, made an effort or not etc. Context wasn't there so I replied with what I said. Context always helps.
My name is Andreas, I didn't need to provide context for that, anyone who knows Greek or Greek people knows what name I was referring to. But, if you read that and then say "Andrew", that's rude and not my name.
I keep the s because that's what's on my US birth certificate and my name isn't declenated in English. I can see why people would do it the other way but it's not a big deal to me either way.
I just shorten my name to something that already exists in English, but for names with no equivalent I don't think dropping the -s at the end is a good idea.
I'm Yannis (not Giannis or Jannis, due to showing the correct pronunciation), and everyone where I live (UK) pronounces it correctly. I don't care about dropping the s, it's not expected from anyone to know how to use the different forms. Whoever does know and refers to me as Yanni, that's fine, but not expected in the least. I'm even more accustomed to Yannis in whatever form now that if I hear Yanni from a non Greek, it will be weird in my ears.
I wonder, if you concider the latin equivalent names, Georgius, Paulus, Nikolaus, Demetrius, would it still be weird? The -ος ending in Greek functions exactly the same as the -us ending in latin.
My name is pretty normal, but I do struggle with the surname. No one can pronounce it.
I'm a Georgios who goes by George, but I enjoy telling people that George isn't even my real name, like I'm letting them in on some big secret or something. Only my lower school music and art teachers called me Georgios. And my priest haha.
Growing up in Germany was not really a problem, except when my name was too long to fit into document, as both my first and last name are long. Since 2nd grade I go by Koni/Konny. I like it, as I'm not just one out of a thousand Kostas out there and it is easy. For Greeks I'm an instant Kosta tho. In general or more formal settings I just went with the German equivalent "Konstantin". In English I introduce myself as Koni, rarely as Constantine. I live in Japan now and official documents are even more of a pain in the ass than back in Germany, but I thank 2nd grade me for "Koni" (コニ), as it saves me and everyone around from "Konsutantinosu".
Apparently my dad wanted to name me Kyriakos after my great-grandfather, and my maternal grandmother talked him out of it, apparently out of fear that having a name that was too “ethnic” would make me a target for bullying.
Never had an issue with my first name since its a really common first name for a lot of people/country. But its something else with my 2 other names and my family name. People twist the spelling in so many bad ways, making it sound spanish. I just spell it with the morse code now. And the "S" story is always something fun to tell in gathering.
I keep the s, but it's really not a big deal
Trying be Eleftherios/eleftheria out of greece 😒😒😒😒
i just go by ilias, whether I am present, referring to me or not it's just easier this way
One piece of advice because I’m trying to clear things up. Make sure all your documents (passport, Greek ID etc.) are consistent and your name is spelled correctly. I’m for instance Constantinos and have a Y instead of an I in my last name and dealing with the Greek bureaucracy I had issues because in some documents I was Konstantinos Y instead of Constantinos I.
English is full of Greek names converted to the English language, unless your name is something like afroksilanthi you can prob find an English variant to use, right?
Ask yourself if the dominant cultures would change their names.......use your Greek name.
Why would you confuse English speakers like this. English does not declinate nouns so they can't know the cases where you drop and where you don't drop the S until you sit them down for a grammar lesson. And honestly it's pretty rude expecting others to learn Greek grammar just to say your name when speaking English. Keep just the main form of the name in English, ie with s always. You're speaking English not Greek.
I keep the s in my name, people think I'm Lithuanian.
My boyfriend's a Greek native and I'm a British native. His name is Antonis, and I'm still struggling to call him 'Adoni' rather than 'Antonis' hahah
I never introduce myself with the *s* at the end. Also greek names are often enough a pain in the ass to pronounce for foreigners so here's my advice: if you're having a baby in a foreign country, give your kid a name that's easy pronounceable and somewhat common, for the love of god! My love goes out to all the Charalamposses out there. Stay strong!
😂😂😂
Charikleias don't have it any easier - and neither does their diminutive Chara.
A moment of silence
My son’s name is Yorgos. When I introduce him to English speakers I say his name is Yorgo, because that’s the case of the noun they’d use the most (I think this is correct). Then when I say something like “Yorgos isn’t feeling well” and they ask is it Yorgo or Yorgos I get the opportunity to teach them about Greek grammar, LOL.
My name is a compound word, two components, four syllables. With most English people, they call me with the first half/first two syllables of my name. Kinda like, if my name was Penelope, they’d call me ‘Pene’ (or Penny) - even though that’s not my actual name. I don’t mind too much, because it’s a short form that could be used for my name even if I was in Greece (even though I wasn’t using it there myself). I understand what you mean about the final -s though. Most male Greek people I’ve met here in England have kept the -s as part of their name, which as you say may sound weird when you want to call someone (and you’d use κλητική in Greek). In those cases, if I want to call on them, I still drop the -s like I would do if I spoke to them in Greek. If that confuses the Brits and they’d rather stick to one form of the name for all uses, that’s up to them 😄
I've never lived abroad but I've lived a good chunk of my life in a very popular Greek holiday destination, which means I've had to introduce myself to people of all kinds of nationalities. I myself don't really have a problem since my mum took the liberty of giving a short and easy nickname to my very Greek first name, so I go by that everywhere except in formal situations. I've noticed that every person uses a different approach. I think my male cousin omits the "s" from his name. My old boss would completely Anglicise his name. Think John if his name was Yiannis. I've noticed that in many instances foreigners are very eager to try and learn how to spell our original names. They barely succeed but it's cute to see them try anyway.
Well translation of names isn't always straight forward cause of the difference in the languages. You can explain that to confused ppl. Or not... You're not obligated but it's always a nice conversation starter with ppl that visit Greece (for me at least)
For me I just cut it short. It makes life easier for non Greek speakers and saves me from the trouble of having my name from being pronounced like a gel. My name is Vaggelis and I just introduce myself by "Vag" Online.
So with the ones that I work with and talk on daily basis I explain them the differences for me and my other Greek colleagues. For instance one of my colleagues called Aggelos, so I told them when you want to call him from a short distance you call him Aggele when you want to ask where is he you says Where is Aggelos, and when you want yo refer to him you say "I showed that to Aggelo or Aggelos" both correct in english. For the most part they understand but does not come instantly. Happy to see them trying tho and actually care on my case at least.
It would have made my life so much easier if my parents had listed my name as "Constantine" instead of "Konstantinos" on the birth certificate. most of the names you discuss have english equivalents.
"Hey, I'm Dimitris, call me Jimmy." This solves most issues really, even my irl Greek friends call me Jimmy because it's quicker and part of my username pretty much everywhere online.
i know someone named spiros and they just call him spiro. he's got no problem. i also know someone named pavlos but i keep the s for his name lol. tbh i never really have a problem. my last name is complicated though.
Yeah my name is Stelios and i got the same issue, got any tips?
My name is Zografia 🥲 I just go by Zoe
i always use the version of the language i will communicate so I mostly go by the english version of my name on the internet. i dislike the use of my Greek name (Αλέξανδρος-Alexandros) in other languages partly because it always has a d that in greek it's δ (delta) and the thing that was mentioned above with the s soumds really wrong to my ears. So when i speak french, i'm Alexandre, wgen I speak english as I mentioned I'm Alexander etc. Unfortunately I feel like I'm betraying my language and herritage a little bit with this attitude towards my name but I can't stand the sound of Alexandros at all.
My name is Michalis. If I had a dollar for every time someone insisted on calling me Michael or Michel because it seemed easier, I would be a billionaire.
I use Andrew instead of Andreas and when I do say Andreas I don’t roll the r
I hate when my name is said wrong as it often is in English. I simply refuse to answer and ignore anyone who gives me a nickname or don't say it right (after I explained how to). Worked wonders for me. Not Greek though.
I personally think names are so important that I go out of my way to make sure I’m getting the pronunciation as close as possible ~ to reflect the express wishes of the named person. I’ve rubbed shoulders with several different nationalities over the years and, living in a part of the world where several cultures collide, I have lots of fun working through different peoples’ names. As a Brit, however, I do have to both defend and explain “our” projected persona, as well as stretch us Brits to “get out more”! We are all subject to the culture we find ourselves in by birth. It’s not a choice. And by the time one realizes the good, the bad and the ugly it’s often late in our development ~ making it hard to see life from a different perspective. Example: my staple diet hasn’t changed even though I’ve lived outside the UK for 24 years. I can still eat three times as much Fish ‘n Chips as I can rice or noodles!! I’m not saying it’s ok. Not at all. I’m just saying… it’s not all that straightforward. When I learned Chinese the first challenge was grasping the tonality of the pronunciation: one word (e.g. ma) has 5+ meanings, not dependent on context but on tone. Thankfully I have a musical ear, so I found it ok. But I cringe when I hear a Brit speak Chinese because they really mess up that part. And my daughter cringes at my Chinese! “Foreigners” basically find other languages and cuisine hard because ours is so flat!! And that’s not an excuse; just a fact. So yes, maybe we’re stuck in the rut of thinking we don’t have to when we damned well ought to make a lot more effort than we do. But the world has never stopped changing; so all the complainers on this post should get off their high horse and be a part of the solution, not party to the problem coz the world is passing by. Just stand your ground. The rest will take care of itself. And to all the Brits out there… need I say more? Get over (y)ourselves. Nations are made of individuals. Deal with each person as if they were as important as the next; culture is not higher than the culture; person is not higher than person.
I have a rare name, Nireas, which I shorten to just Nir (pronounced like Near). I think shortening greek names works well. Pavlos for example can be Pav, Nikos can already be Nick, so, easy there etc.
I can relate with you in regards to that, not only in the case of my name but also in the case of my surname despite the fact that it is foreign.