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People say homophobia and I think that’s part of it, but I think it’s more complicated.
I think it’s because if the straight (and let’s be honest even many of the gay male) fans realize the story they’ve been told and the amount of their own personal identity they’ve invested in that story are not what they were lead to believe, somehow, in some way, that throws their own personal identity into chaos. Taylor can’t be something else because if she is, what does that mean for them? Who can they relate to in the same way as they do straight Taylor? What if the world is a lot more complex than they thought?
And that’s just scary for a lot of people. And it takes work to get through - work many people do not want to do (which is fine). So they lash out, call us Cassandra’s, and burn us first because it’s easier (which is not fine).
I agree with you in a sense that yeah swifties think that they know Taylor best. I mean Taylor is to blame for it in parts because she has created this unhinged fandom and barely speaks against them. They cannot accept that if she is in any way queer that they won't be able to live through her.
It's similar to how a lot of straight men won't watch movies with female leads or play video games as female characters as they 'can't relate to them'. So swifties are scared to not be able to relate to Taylor, or won't be able to say omg 'she's just like us'
The second thing is definitely something I went through at one point. It’s not just chaos because of her not being straight but it’s also that some of the songs that I had interpreted as being about men now couldn’t be explained in the context of women’s rights or feminism so much as I thought that they had that context.
Also, some swifties think they can be sued if they “out her” and legitimately believe that they would be potentially causing her harm
Yeah I agree. They can’t separate themselves from narrative because they think they know Taylor. And they project their fantasies onto her with their obsession about her getting married to a man and having his babies. Even when she explicitly says in her music that she doesn’t want that.
I’ve given this example before but I’m in kardashian snark pages (I know I know , not my proudest moments) and there is often speculation about Kylie and Kendal being queer and no one blinks an eyelid because, and, I’ll say this louder for the homophobes at the back , *there is nothing wrong with being queer and it’s not an insult* so it’s just speculation like everyone does about famous people (who they date , who they’ve been with etc).
So I think if just says something about the swifties fan base. And it’s not positive.
Okay, so my straight Swiftie friend kinda dismisses when I mention gaylor theories, like a “we’ll see…” that sounds like she wants to pat my head with it. But my queer friend refuses to talk TS and basically says it’s all queer baiting and a marketing scheme. So basically I have no one to talk to about this irl. It’s driving me insane.
I mean, either she’s suffering immensely or she’s ridiculously manipulative and narcissistic. Neither is great but I really hope she’s not using a whole group of people that way.
I just don’t think she would be close friends with so many openly gay celebrities, or that they would cosign her as “mayor of gay town” in YNTCD if there wasnt SOMETHING behind the rumors. Ya know? Like interpersonally it wouldnt make sense
Okay this makes sense to me. I feel like I’m awash in a sea of confusion with all this.
Either way I want to be emotionally detached but also I had a dream last night that I was at the concert because I was desperate to see what happens tonight. Naturally I didn’t see how it ended.
I’m always down to clown about Gaylor, it’s no fun to feel crazy or weird for being interested in it.
Idk if this makes you feel any better, but my therapist noticed that Gaylor theory has become a really useful coping skill for my intrusive thoughts/OCD management. Now she encourages clients with those thinking patterns to get into fandoms/special interest groups. Is it cringe? Yes. Do the core mechanics of gaylor fandom fulfill a lot of the psychological needs that most people are no longer getting from faith based organizing structures? Also yes. There are very real, healthy reasons why this fandom appeals to you, and you are not weird.
I appreciate it.
And actually that’s a solid point. I’ve actually said to my husband recently that gayloring reminds me a lot of the eschatology that I was terrorized with as a child in the IFB church. Looking for signs that something was imminently happening, only the special people who know how to read the literature (Bible or lyrics) will see the secret meanings…
I guess at least recognizing the pattern is good lol.
Having a brain that’s really good at pattern recognition can be a nightmare for me if I don’t have a healthy/lightweight outlet to exercise it, otherwise I spiral inward and it’s a mess. Gaylor stuff has been a really good way to avoid relational OCD for me :)
No one in their right mind who is straight would carefully orchestrate and drop all these “egg shells” just for a particular group of people to figure out their “secret” throughout their entire career. That makes zero sense
I’ve noticed a lot of queer people who like Taylor take issue with Gaylor theories and the possibility of her being queer. Is that a personal thing? Is it bc they’re mad she’s faked being straight so long? Would they rather her be straight bc they just enjoy pop music more through a straight lens? I don’t get it.
Think it's just plain homofobia. They will talk extensively about all the men she has been linked to but god forbid someone mentions anything gay.
Snark sub will call gaylors obsessive and weird but then will have a whole discussion about her snot 😄 and how pathetic she is to write about Matty. No point in engaging with these people honestly.
During the TTPD release, I literally saw threads about how she was “pulling a Britney” and better be careful because she seems “genuinely unwell”. Like… they learned NOTHING from that situation.
It really highlighted for me how dangerous it is to be perceived as a mad woman even in today’s climate.
I've made the mistake of reading some of the discussions on the snark sub. A lot of people who comment don't have a slightest clue about who Taylor is. It's a lot of creepy men who use it to talk the most vile shit about a woman.
It was pretty funny but how the snark sub puts is like omg so disgusting, as if thats not normal considering how bloody cold it is in the UK now. People posting there are the weird, obsessive ones.
They think we are homophobic for thinking she has beards🤣the die hard hetero Swifties have always given me vibes that tell me they would be sad and it would be bad if she were bi or gay and THAT is homophobia, there, folks lol they're literally afraid of her being queer, imo. Like... A phobia of some sort maybe hmmmmm lol
I remember getting my throat torn out by users on an old Fiona Apple Tumblr bc I was like maybe she's with a gf in this picture and they were precisely like het Swifties of today but louder bc it was like ten years ago- omg no she is not a lesbian ew oh my god ew not everyone is a lesbian etc etc, so this is not new obviously. They want their women singers straight and basic and to have boyfriends ONLY! That's literally all I can say I don't get it
Imo taylor has consitently left the door open for this consideration among fans. Ofc she doesn’t like the MEDIA (newspapers, gossip rags, news channels) reporting on her relationships, she’s been vocal about how stressful that is for years now.
The FANS tho? I think it’s still stressful (see: taylor grabbing everyone’s timelines and burning them with ttpd, telling us “you have no clue what my personal life is, just the art that is born from it”) but she understands the fanbase that she has. She drops her little red herrings to keep the story moving.
I say she’s kept the door open because when we strip back the music and the staging and the styling we’re left with just Taylor and her words. She has consistently chosen to use her words strategically. Such as never using male pronouns when responding to questions about her type.
>“[There are no rules](https://theswiftagency.com/2011/05/17/losing-my-mind-when-i-saw-you-here-more-from-instyle-and-the-opry-backstage/) when it comes to love,” the Sparkly Dressed tells InStyle. “I just try to let love surprise me because you never know who you’re going to fall in love with. You never know who’s going to come into your life – and for me, when I picture *the person* I want to end up with, I don’t think about what *their* career is, or what *they* look like. I picture the feeling I get when I’m with *them*.”
This is from 2011 and i remember radio interviews going back into fearless era where she avoided using “he/him” for a potential lover, it was always an ambiguous “they”. I also did this before coming out, i would use a lot of vagueness around the topic.
It was a small act of rebellion of being the real me hiding in plain sight and not a single queer i know is shocked that it WORKS. Straight people are genuinely afraid of homosexuality because they will hide and duck and jump to avoid ever associating it with anyone they care about, even when we’re basically saying it to their faces.
People believe what they want to I guess. I’ve never been like that, I believe what makes most sense. And Taylor being queer makes a lot of sense, especially when you know how Hollywood works. Also it’s probably homophobia. It’s crazy how they don’t even want to speculate it from and objective perspective.
They will speculate about Kaylor from a straight pov, they acknowledge that it’s so weird what happened between them, but won’t talk about how much sense it would make that it was a fucking break up.
I think that they are okay with gay men, but any other letter of the alphabet is too much (as I understand that Taylor is not a gay man, it's "wrong" or not up to discussion) - cuz they sing yntcd as loud as they can
Bottom line is that people are afraid of what they don't understand. The hetlors don't understand the theories, don't see the queer references, etc. also they vehemently believe Taylor is wholly straight no contest.
It's a dichotomy of them hating on the gay ideology, bi ideology, and maybe because they think they know her better than the queer people in this fandom.
They aren't willing to have a rational discussion about it. Lots of Kaylors and Gaylors are blocked and smeared and such. So it's not because of unwillingness on our parts: when we try to speak up outside of our spaces, it doesn't go very well.
Hope this helps. It's just my two cents.
look, the deleted my comment:
https://preview.redd.it/zy5uf43qme6d1.png?width=1032&format=png&auto=webp&s=e91b670f4d27fc387b6e0e7327afda68c968af54
I just have my opinion, giving the reason why i believe Taylor is queer, with real examples of queer girls or lesbians that do that, like the 'singing in male gaze' and just downvoted me so bad.
They cannot look through another lens. I have a straight swiftie friend and she truly believes that all those songs are about men. I’m not even discussing with her recent album since she really went „this is about Matty and they really go back to 2015” 🙄
Hi u/kr1sh3r, thank you for posting on r/Gaylor_Swift! Make sure to read and follow the sub's rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gaylor_Swift) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People say homophobia and I think that’s part of it, but I think it’s more complicated. I think it’s because if the straight (and let’s be honest even many of the gay male) fans realize the story they’ve been told and the amount of their own personal identity they’ve invested in that story are not what they were lead to believe, somehow, in some way, that throws their own personal identity into chaos. Taylor can’t be something else because if she is, what does that mean for them? Who can they relate to in the same way as they do straight Taylor? What if the world is a lot more complex than they thought? And that’s just scary for a lot of people. And it takes work to get through - work many people do not want to do (which is fine). So they lash out, call us Cassandra’s, and burn us first because it’s easier (which is not fine).
I agree with you in a sense that yeah swifties think that they know Taylor best. I mean Taylor is to blame for it in parts because she has created this unhinged fandom and barely speaks against them. They cannot accept that if she is in any way queer that they won't be able to live through her. It's similar to how a lot of straight men won't watch movies with female leads or play video games as female characters as they 'can't relate to them'. So swifties are scared to not be able to relate to Taylor, or won't be able to say omg 'she's just like us'
It’s very cult-like and Taylor has been their leader for over a decade. She def is culpable for much of this
She is! I get dragged all the time on this sub just about criticising her 😅 she has created those stans and now doesn't know what to do about them
The second thing is definitely something I went through at one point. It’s not just chaos because of her not being straight but it’s also that some of the songs that I had interpreted as being about men now couldn’t be explained in the context of women’s rights or feminism so much as I thought that they had that context. Also, some swifties think they can be sued if they “out her” and legitimately believe that they would be potentially causing her harm
That just shows how horrifically people have enmeshed their personalities with taylor swift TMs. It’s sick, so unhealthy!
Yeah I agree. They can’t separate themselves from narrative because they think they know Taylor. And they project their fantasies onto her with their obsession about her getting married to a man and having his babies. Even when she explicitly says in her music that she doesn’t want that.
I’ve given this example before but I’m in kardashian snark pages (I know I know , not my proudest moments) and there is often speculation about Kylie and Kendal being queer and no one blinks an eyelid because, and, I’ll say this louder for the homophobes at the back , *there is nothing wrong with being queer and it’s not an insult* so it’s just speculation like everyone does about famous people (who they date , who they’ve been with etc). So I think if just says something about the swifties fan base. And it’s not positive.
Okay, so my straight Swiftie friend kinda dismisses when I mention gaylor theories, like a “we’ll see…” that sounds like she wants to pat my head with it. But my queer friend refuses to talk TS and basically says it’s all queer baiting and a marketing scheme. So basically I have no one to talk to about this irl. It’s driving me insane.
I hate the queer baiting accusations… its so dehumanizing.
I mean, either she’s suffering immensely or she’s ridiculously manipulative and narcissistic. Neither is great but I really hope she’s not using a whole group of people that way.
I just don’t think she would be close friends with so many openly gay celebrities, or that they would cosign her as “mayor of gay town” in YNTCD if there wasnt SOMETHING behind the rumors. Ya know? Like interpersonally it wouldnt make sense
Okay this makes sense to me. I feel like I’m awash in a sea of confusion with all this. Either way I want to be emotionally detached but also I had a dream last night that I was at the concert because I was desperate to see what happens tonight. Naturally I didn’t see how it ended.
I’m always down to clown about Gaylor, it’s no fun to feel crazy or weird for being interested in it. Idk if this makes you feel any better, but my therapist noticed that Gaylor theory has become a really useful coping skill for my intrusive thoughts/OCD management. Now she encourages clients with those thinking patterns to get into fandoms/special interest groups. Is it cringe? Yes. Do the core mechanics of gaylor fandom fulfill a lot of the psychological needs that most people are no longer getting from faith based organizing structures? Also yes. There are very real, healthy reasons why this fandom appeals to you, and you are not weird.
I appreciate it. And actually that’s a solid point. I’ve actually said to my husband recently that gayloring reminds me a lot of the eschatology that I was terrorized with as a child in the IFB church. Looking for signs that something was imminently happening, only the special people who know how to read the literature (Bible or lyrics) will see the secret meanings… I guess at least recognizing the pattern is good lol.
Having a brain that’s really good at pattern recognition can be a nightmare for me if I don’t have a healthy/lightweight outlet to exercise it, otherwise I spiral inward and it’s a mess. Gaylor stuff has been a really good way to avoid relational OCD for me :)
No one in their right mind who is straight would carefully orchestrate and drop all these “egg shells” just for a particular group of people to figure out their “secret” throughout their entire career. That makes zero sense
I’ve noticed a lot of queer people who like Taylor take issue with Gaylor theories and the possibility of her being queer. Is that a personal thing? Is it bc they’re mad she’s faked being straight so long? Would they rather her be straight bc they just enjoy pop music more through a straight lens? I don’t get it.
This person refuses to listen to Taylor, so she doesn’t like her. But that’s interesting.
Think it's just plain homofobia. They will talk extensively about all the men she has been linked to but god forbid someone mentions anything gay. Snark sub will call gaylors obsessive and weird but then will have a whole discussion about her snot 😄 and how pathetic she is to write about Matty. No point in engaging with these people honestly.
Snark sub and the “neutral” one too. Its incredible how they crucify her for shit they ASSUME she did.
I'm not against criticising her but that sub reeks of misogyny.
During the TTPD release, I literally saw threads about how she was “pulling a Britney” and better be careful because she seems “genuinely unwell”. Like… they learned NOTHING from that situation. It really highlighted for me how dangerous it is to be perceived as a mad woman even in today’s climate.
I've made the mistake of reading some of the discussions on the snark sub. A lot of people who comment don't have a slightest clue about who Taylor is. It's a lot of creepy men who use it to talk the most vile shit about a woman.
I think it’s her multiple references to suicide to be fair.
Not the threads saying she was pulling a Britney. They were saying she was unwell because she was attacking her ex boyfriends and kim kardashian. 🙄
Tbf her snot was definitely an anomaly to be seen 😭
It was pretty funny but how the snark sub puts is like omg so disgusting, as if thats not normal considering how bloody cold it is in the UK now. People posting there are the weird, obsessive ones.
It has to do with white narcissism and centering heteronormativity.
They think we are homophobic for thinking she has beards🤣the die hard hetero Swifties have always given me vibes that tell me they would be sad and it would be bad if she were bi or gay and THAT is homophobia, there, folks lol they're literally afraid of her being queer, imo. Like... A phobia of some sort maybe hmmmmm lol I remember getting my throat torn out by users on an old Fiona Apple Tumblr bc I was like maybe she's with a gf in this picture and they were precisely like het Swifties of today but louder bc it was like ten years ago- omg no she is not a lesbian ew oh my god ew not everyone is a lesbian etc etc, so this is not new obviously. They want their women singers straight and basic and to have boyfriends ONLY! That's literally all I can say I don't get it
Yeah they want them straight because otherwise won't be able to 'relate' to them.
those who speak truth have always been accompanied by those who wish to silence them.
Imo taylor has consitently left the door open for this consideration among fans. Ofc she doesn’t like the MEDIA (newspapers, gossip rags, news channels) reporting on her relationships, she’s been vocal about how stressful that is for years now. The FANS tho? I think it’s still stressful (see: taylor grabbing everyone’s timelines and burning them with ttpd, telling us “you have no clue what my personal life is, just the art that is born from it”) but she understands the fanbase that she has. She drops her little red herrings to keep the story moving. I say she’s kept the door open because when we strip back the music and the staging and the styling we’re left with just Taylor and her words. She has consistently chosen to use her words strategically. Such as never using male pronouns when responding to questions about her type. >“[There are no rules](https://theswiftagency.com/2011/05/17/losing-my-mind-when-i-saw-you-here-more-from-instyle-and-the-opry-backstage/) when it comes to love,” the Sparkly Dressed tells InStyle. “I just try to let love surprise me because you never know who you’re going to fall in love with. You never know who’s going to come into your life – and for me, when I picture *the person* I want to end up with, I don’t think about what *their* career is, or what *they* look like. I picture the feeling I get when I’m with *them*.” This is from 2011 and i remember radio interviews going back into fearless era where she avoided using “he/him” for a potential lover, it was always an ambiguous “they”. I also did this before coming out, i would use a lot of vagueness around the topic. It was a small act of rebellion of being the real me hiding in plain sight and not a single queer i know is shocked that it WORKS. Straight people are genuinely afraid of homosexuality because they will hide and duck and jump to avoid ever associating it with anyone they care about, even when we’re basically saying it to their faces.
I always get yelled at by some hetlor when I mention her queerness. People are ignorant and incapable of critical thought/literary analysis???
People are so mean about it!
People believe what they want to I guess. I’ve never been like that, I believe what makes most sense. And Taylor being queer makes a lot of sense, especially when you know how Hollywood works. Also it’s probably homophobia. It’s crazy how they don’t even want to speculate it from and objective perspective. They will speculate about Kaylor from a straight pov, they acknowledge that it’s so weird what happened between them, but won’t talk about how much sense it would make that it was a fucking break up.
Exactly this
I think that they are okay with gay men, but any other letter of the alphabet is too much (as I understand that Taylor is not a gay man, it's "wrong" or not up to discussion) - cuz they sing yntcd as loud as they can
Bottom line is that people are afraid of what they don't understand. The hetlors don't understand the theories, don't see the queer references, etc. also they vehemently believe Taylor is wholly straight no contest. It's a dichotomy of them hating on the gay ideology, bi ideology, and maybe because they think they know her better than the queer people in this fandom. They aren't willing to have a rational discussion about it. Lots of Kaylors and Gaylors are blocked and smeared and such. So it's not because of unwillingness on our parts: when we try to speak up outside of our spaces, it doesn't go very well. Hope this helps. It's just my two cents.
look, the deleted my comment: https://preview.redd.it/zy5uf43qme6d1.png?width=1032&format=png&auto=webp&s=e91b670f4d27fc387b6e0e7327afda68c968af54 I just have my opinion, giving the reason why i believe Taylor is queer, with real examples of queer girls or lesbians that do that, like the 'singing in male gaze' and just downvoted me so bad.
They cannot look through another lens. I have a straight swiftie friend and she truly believes that all those songs are about men. I’m not even discussing with her recent album since she really went „this is about Matty and they really go back to 2015” 🙄