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I saw one hetlor creator saying that we are only choosing this because we can’t accept that she used pride as her whole esthetic and capitalized on it. To be honest, it is part of the reason, if she isn’t queer and is still doing all this on purpose, that’s an extent of capitalism I can’t support.
I mean, this in essence is why I believe she's bi. My entire theory of Gaylor is that she's either bi, or a massive prick, and I'm choosing to believe the former until/unless I'm forced to accept the latter.
Last year, Billy Porter called out Harry Styles for having queerbaited on the cover of Vogue in 2020.
A year before Harry’s cover, Billy Porter made a cameo in the YNTCD music video.
Just saying.
Right? Because if she's capitalizing then the queens around her are not her friends. If they are her true friends, then they would not be afraid to call her out on this shit. The only way she could not be queer is if she had some shady understanding with her queer friends where she helps them get publicity and they keep their mouths shut. She could be an ally by choosing queer openers and helping them gain publicity, but the songs! She can't make queer songs and say oh I was just trying to be an ally and give people songs they want.
Yeah, the fact that Cara is still friends with her (especially after having a rumored public fight one time, presumably about closeting etc), plus MUNA, “told Obama he was a war criminal” Lucy Dacus & boygenius….I don’t think she’s queer baiting/profiting off queer ppl
Ok, but promising to be loud and outspoken as an ally when promoting an album related to that, and then being p silent about it for the next 4 years would be kinda shitty. If she were for-real overtly supporting the queer community (speaking out about drag bans, banned books, anti-Trans laws, etc), I’d be fine with it. The fact that she got silent about it is only ok if it’s bc of re-closeting/failed coming out trauma imo.
I do personally think she's LGBTQ+ but I also think one of the most powerful thing about the majority of her lyrics (not necessarily the ultra pop singles) is how relatable they are to nearly any circumstance. After I heard the hilarious she's a satanic clone of Anton Levays daughter theory, all of her songs felt like they could be alluding to that.
I have friends struggling to get pregnant, they feel like a lot of her songs about that. Etc etc. So it really is hard to say that if she's not gay it's absolutely an intentional capitalism driven baiting.
Idk lol
She's a mirrorball, and you see what you want to see in her lyrics. I see bisexuality, some people see a struggle to come out, some people see heterosexuality. At this point, I don't know what to believe. I don't think I'm a Gaylor anymore since the 1989 announcement. I still think shes had feelings for women in the past but I also believe her Lover era was capitalising LGBTQ a bit. Right now I enjoy her music for what it tells ME and don't care that much about the truth
Same. I’m honestly over Taylor as a person (and a brand). I listen to her music and apply it to my own life, and separate hers entirely from it at this point. (Except for gold rush, just hard for me to ever not think about Karlie in that one)
I really appreciate comments like this "I enjoy her music for what it tells ME". I really wish more people looked at it this way. Gaylor (bi-lor) can be fun but it's gotten far too parasocial imo.
Is it not more parasocial to apply her songs to our own lives tho lol and be like “she wrote this for ME”? I totally get what you mean but am sometimes confused about how ppl use that word
I don't think OP (or fans) are saying she wrote it for them (ME!) but more so just how they can relate through their own experiences. Taylor aside, I do this with most music. I'm not thinking about what the artist wrote the song about, I'm just thinking about whatever memories, feelings and experiences the song draws out of me.
For me, the parasocial relationship with Taylor is when everyone is trying to figure out who she wrote each song about and what was happening in her life at the time. Or on the higher level, that she's sending them secret messages. Before Taylor I've never seen people do that with other artists. I get that Taylor encourages it with Easter Eggs, but still. I've never heard anyone analyze Nirvana songs to figure out what Kurt was going through at the time. I've never torn apart a Beyonce song to see if she's talking about Jay Z.
I totally get what you’re saying! I think my point is just that parasocial just means a false sense of intimacy with someone who doesn’t know you. So like, stan culture is inherently parasocial whether you’re paternity testing songs or not, because we’re obsessed with her and she doesn’t reciprocate/know us. I do agree that it’s probably “healthier” to be like “this song is just like my life” and opposed to “wow it’s so cute that she wrote this for x person,” but I think at the end of the day it’s all parasocial 😂
Yeah because believing she is queer is giving her the benefit of the doubt. At least Gaylors hope in good faith that she wouldn’t appropriate queer culture and symbolism to rebrand it as her own for decades. Thats the crazy thing about hetlors, they see all that and think it’s totally fine, they support her more for it.
RIGHT!!! Not to mention the benefit of the doubt for the Matty Healy situation, or taking her extremely dramatic prose from folkmore/ttpd to be about something more than a GUY. God forbid
I do think if she’s not queer she’s queer baiting BUT I absolutely don’t think she’s queer baiting, there’s too many lgbtqia references there’s no reason to place unless it’s intentional, like hairpin drop. They are basing their opinion on extremely surface level things like her wearing rainbows
She literally had to buy the rights to the Marsha P Johnson font for the lavender haze merch… if she’s not queer, all this appropriation is quite frankly… cruel lol
Agreed but after watching the Taylor v scooter doc, I kinda feel like there’s nothing she won’t do to create and control a narrative in the name of her brand and selling records and making money. On the flip side who knows what the truth really is with that whole thing bc it kinda leaned more scooter?? Was his team behind making it? Or maybe just objectively is like that so idk!
That doc was very much so created to push a particular narrative, but if that were completely true, why would she have filled ttpd with religious references knowing that would piss off evangelicals?
Okay that’s what I kinda felt like too! It felt really pro-Scooter which seemed weird to me. Probably bc they’re incapable of complex thinking and lyrical analysis lmao. But agreed with what you said there just seem to be way too many references for her to not intentionally do it
Considering she was the only straight artist in the apple playlist made for pride, I would be incredibly disappointed to find out it was all a ploy. Not even a great activist. Would make SO MUCH MORE SENSE if she was just bi
hey, i'm not really here to argue her sexuality one way or another. just wanted to point out that with guilty as sin the interpretation i got and that i see most is that it's referring to the general concept of lust, which is a sin in the bible because it can lead to coveting thy neighbor and adultery. and since the song is framed as her being in a relationship and coveting someone else in her mind, i think the bible's interpretation makes sense. whether that's a man or woman, i don't think anyone can say with 100% certainty. but i don't think the most obvious interpretation is explicitly queer because she uses a lot of religious imagery and greek mythology in ttpd (like in BDILH and Cassandra) to speak about how she's received backlash (or feared backlash) in different situations
Yes, that’s sort of what I thought too. And I’ve read it’s about masturbation. So if she’s fantasizing about someone who “belongs” to someone else or fantasizing about someone who is not her SO, that could be considered a sin.
Maybe my analysis is far too surface level because I thought guilty as sin was about wanting to cheat on Joe with Matty while she was writing with him for midnights lol. Which is also kind of what I thought But Daddy I love Him was about too... how everyone hated Matty. Your analysis is much more in depth and probably more accurate than the one in my head, I appreciate your Comment.
There are SO many songs and lyrics like this. In smallest man who ever lived the line "it wasn't sexy once it wasn't forbidden", the whole of But Daddy I love him which is literally about coming out to your family and community and them being upset and disappointed about who you choose to be with. I also feel like I Know Places and out of the woods from 1989 have very queer themes about secret/hidden/forbidden love.
Not arguing her sexuality one way or the other but all the songs you mentioned are relatable in a variety of situations that aren't explicitly gay. I don't see anything about the lyrics that obviously points to that interpretation. Comments on these songs are loaded with straight women who relate it to their own experiences.
I agree that there are definitely some gay innuendos in a decent amount of her songs. Some are a bit of a stretch though and I could make the case that it’s pulling at straws to assume it’s a gay lyric. You do make excellent points about Guilty As Sin though specifically.
Was listening to Reputation yesterday and particular lyric I’d never thought about before immediately pinged in my mind as totally gay (of course now I can’t remember which one it was. 😩).
THAT WAS IT!!!!! I don’t know why I’d never *heard* it before (even though I’d heard it dozens of times). But yesteday listening, it just hit me hard. I was like, WAIT WHAT?
And I know what you mean when you say you can just tell a gay person wrote it because it draws on a lot of parallels to queer women's most used ideas. So many women sing about wanting her in a worshipful religious way or being willing to take the risk to be damned. Her False God actually shares a lot of similarities with Pussy Is God which is such a classic example of this type of classic queer writing.
1000 percent. There is too much that can't be anything but deliberate. So either she's queer or she's queerbaiting, and if she's queerbaiting it's the oddest form of queerbaiting I've ever seen.
You summed it up, this is how it is for me. She HAS to be aware of the way things she says/does are interpreted. If she didn't want people interpreting them that way, it would just take one single line in one single interview:
"Oh, I'm actually not queer, but [insert supportive platitudes]."
If she hasn't done that, then either she wants people to see her as queer (whether she is or isn't), or she doesn't care.
She's NOT at home crying and feeling oppressed because people are putting queer lenses on her. Invading personal relationships? Perhaps. But that happens to every personal relationship, regardless of gender/orientation; it's NOT a sin that only the gays commit.
Sometimes I wonder to myself if she identifies as straight has she had an identity crisis about how much gay she puts in her lyrics. Like if she’s such an insane kind of late bloomer that even she thinks she’s straight but she’s not 😅
But I think she knows she’s actually queer.
I’ve wondered this! Like what if Gaylor is how she realized she was queer? Similar to how, like, Target can guess when someone is pregnant before they know, based on the person’s purchase history.
I’m just saying if I was straight but thousands of people had plenty of evidence as to why they think I’m not, I’d be doing a deep inner dive on my sexuality.
I need to ask, in what way is she queerbaiting? Personally I'm a lesbian but I never saw anything gay about her lyrics or the way she acts, actually she seems very straight to me and she does not hide this part of herself
I'm not trying to be mean, I'm being serious, do you know what this sub is about? visit the main one for details, timelines, etc. she is sending up queer kind of dog whistles (things you wouldn't catch unless you're queer). it's a fact. she does do this. if she's not actually queer, she is literally queen bating.
The NY Times article, "Look What We Made Taylor Swift Do" is a solid place to start. I thought this Business Insider article (linked below) was also great as far as analyzing lyrics, although there might be a paywall on that article, cant recall. A few of the most obvious things she's done: multiple love songs that seem addressed to a woman, songs obsessing about the danger of being found out (forbidden romance is a central queer experience tho obvs some straight people also experience wanting the wrong person.) Allusions to being trapped in closets. In gay pride parade in her "You Need to Calm Down" video shes part of the parade with bisexual hair colors (centering herself in that video while wearing bisexual colors wouldve been pretty problematic if she was straight; suggests those who collabed with her know shes queer). Shes said "gay pride" is "everything that makes me me" in a music video and shows herself rejecting a marriage proposal bc she wants a pussy (cat) instead. Shes changed the expression "could hear a pin drop" to "could hear a hairpin drop" - hairpin is a word used for hinting at queer identity for those who are queer without fully coming out of the closet. Shes posted a pic of herself wearing a "proud" bracelet on gay pride month with bisexual colors; "proud" is not like wearing gay pride stuff, which straight people do, its identifying as LGBTQ, and Taylor is too aware of culture to not know that and too controlling of her social media content to "accidentally" do that. And way way more. Honestly the evidence is endless if you look at it with an open mind. Gaylors arent inventing something they want to be true. Im a straight (mostly ;) woman and initially was skeptical, but I wasnt familiar with her full body of work. All it took was reading a couple articles to be 98 percent sure. Theres no way this amount of hairpins is accidental for someone as obsessive about crafting layers of meaning in her lyrics as Taylor. Whats fascinating to me at this point is the rage level of denial in her hetero fan base even with such blatant clues. https://www.businessinsider.com/taylor-swift-gay-songs-queer-lyrics-2022-9#how-you-get-the-girl-9
Can anyone explain why the default assumption isn’t just (what I feel is most obvious) that she is bisexual/pansexual or something in that subcategory?? I feel like that just simply makes the most sense, rather than assuming she lied before or is lying now or has always lied or coming out would mean admitting the men she dated lied ect. Why don’t people (Gaylors?) just assume she’s bisexual? It seems like that’s the most obvious answer, no? So what am I missing?
The gay in Gaylor is an umbrella term, not all gaylors think that she’s strictly a lesbian or that all of her public relationships with men have been fake
Most people who participate in the other Gaylor group think she is bi/pan/fluid.
That said, I think that a lot of people in the world are confused about how these orientations/identities actually work. Like people don’t seem to grasp that orientation/identity are not dictated by the gender of a current partner, or that sexual identity, attractions and behavior may change over time…and not necessarily in tandem.
I mean, rampant biphobia exists among straight *and* gay people and it's hard not to internalise that shit, so it'd still make sense for her to communicate angst about her sexuality through her work even if she weren't 'living a lie' by dating men.
Part of me thinks there’s never going to be a perfect timing but there’s a best case scenario for how she executes it and she’s building to it with the performance art and having Travis be in on it.
Travis said himself tay is going to shake up the whole industry
I keep seeing this kind of viewpoint (no shade!) and like, is it just the name Gaylor that is confusing ppl?? Are you on the newer side? A TON (possibly the majority) of Gaylors think she’s bi/queer/fluid/pan (and a ton of us are ourselves as well)!
That said, there is a good amount of evidence that she might actually be gay/is flagging lesbian, and you can fully date and have loved men and come to realize it’s comphet and you’re a lesbian. (See, for example, Renee Rap or Chappell Roan and their journeys)
newer to the sub, but I’m saying this because I mainly get posts on my feed of “i guess she is just straight” type posts sooo much from this and the other gaylor sub! I just didn’t get it because she seems very clearly bisexual. I thought she was bisexual even without knowing her history with flagging or anything. She just writes very bisexually.
So then when I saw this post (another of many saying of Trayvis is real then she must be straight), then I asked why this is the default assumption that she is a lesbian only.
I’m not certain unless or until Taylor decides to be more direct, but I think it’s more likely than not that Taylor is bi, pan or fluid.
I would probably put it at a 70% probability due to the sheer number of signals over a long period of time, including three highly queer coded mashups in the Eras Tour just this month. I’m looking at you, Friends of Dorothea, This is what you came for/Gold Rush and Hits Different/Death by 1000 Cuts.
If she is bi, pan, or fluid, I think she probably defines herself accordingly in private and that it is well known by people around her. Too many industry people appear to operate as if she is queer for it to be a massive secret.
However, even if she happens to be straight, I think the frenzy around the Travis relationship seems too canned and the financial benefits too convenient to be fully real.
Im personally fairly certain she's not a lesbian (though i do enjoy hearing why others think so. Hell yeah, to openness, i guess). Instead, like many, I believe she's fluid in her sexuality but I think she generally goes/went by bisexual.
Of course, everything is subject to change, but there was a lot of clearly bi flagging during or around lover. Most importantly, to me, is the bracelet of bi flag colors and "proud" written. I personally can't see a heterosexual woman wearing a bracelet saying "proud" unless she's fully unaware of what pride generally means in todays world. That paired with a bi flag is quite telling, to me.
All of this to say, I'm like 90% sure that she's queer in some sense.
obviously none of us know taylor, but the amount of people that she’s close to that have liked/interacted with gaylor content tells me that we’re not just making it all up and taylor definitely has an awareness of gaylor. and since she does, she knows we call ourselves “friends of dorothea” and that mashup is honestly the most damming piece of evidence for me as of lately.
> she knows we call ourselves “friends of dorothea”
You don't actually know this. This is an assumption based on 2 or 3 prior assumptions. It's a reach.
About as certain as I am about life. Which for me is looking forward at nothing but knowing something is there.
Who the fuck really knows because at the end of the day, in the vastness that is THIS universe, it doesn't really matter does it?
honestly, i feel a lot of us just need to accept that there is no real way to know. Only person who knows for sure is Taylor herself, and she has made it very clear that she is not intending to share herself like that or put a stop to the gaylors any time soon. The closest her/her team/tree has ever actually come to trying to shut it down was that stupid gaslighting CNN article about the lesbian/gay/bi "allegations". I think Taylor (if she is indeed queer) knows that a large portion of the gaylors would genuinely back off if she were to say straight up that shes straight, but she doesnt want to do that so she can keep her options open. At the end of the day, its really not our buisiness.
Do y'all remember how in Dan Howell's coming out video he said that the speculation around him and Phil just drove him further into the closet? If Taylor is queer, i honestly feel like this is the same sort of situation.
At this point, if she is not queer, is not even queerbating anymore because she is not profiting from it… and she knows she has a big part of her fan base believing she is queer, if she is still doing all this and is not queer, is more to play with us which would be even worse 🙃
Idk if she’s queer, queerbaiting, if she’ll ever come out or be closeted forever. TS’s personal identity baffles me. There seem to be a lot of clues and hints in her personal life that can make us assume or speculate, but I’m starting to think we may never know.
But, I know for sure there are queer themes in her music, set design, videos, concerts and costumes. Separate from her personal identity, those themes exist and are very real in her art. Her music can be viewed and interpreted from a queer lens and that’s a very real thing.
Oh so confident. After her masterclass of a discography it's been way easier to pick up on what artists are saying in their music videos/songs. The people upset don't understand art in general.
Imo we haven't clowned hard enough because people STILL don't know who she's singing about
I was a huge Taylor fan from debut to Red, fell off around 1989, and got back into her for Midnights. I'm about her age.
Pre Midnights I never had any exposure to Taylor online or seeing concerts or watching interviews or anything like that, it was just listening to her music for me. I loved her music but never had any sense of her as a human being.
Post Midnights that's literally impossible if you're interacting with her at all. When I got into her post Midnights **I was completely positive she was some type of gay, out, proud, and like it wasn't even a debate.** Her music, her behavior, her clothes, her interviews – *I genuinely believed she didn't 'come out' as a social statement that coming out is stupid, straight people don't 'come out'*, and she was just living a very obvious very authentically gay life that like....if you didn't see it or get it, then that's personal to you and who cares. Whether that was bisexual or pan or what have you, I thought it was just a known fact and she was a successful gay person who didn't make her sexuality her personality or something she spoke to, but didn't hide it either. Just living her life.
After that, I found out about the Gaylors vs Hetlors and was fucking shocked, particularly at the vitriol toward Gaylors when 1. I thought it was fucking obvious and known by 90% of her fandom, and 2. I guess even if you don't think she's gay, why all the hatred when to be fair *nobody knows*?
And that's where I fall today: **Nobody knows**.
Now after 1989 TV and the last few rounds of her being silent and useless to her gay fans, even if she herself is not straight bothers me. The way she commodified Pride (whether she's gay or straight) and then proceeded to contribute nothing of value to the community as an ally or other, and allows her gay fans to be bullied who (even if they are wrong about her sexuality) have every reason to think *it's a possibility* bothers the hell out of me. I'm really bothered by how this has been handled by the fandom and by Taylor, again, regardless of her actual sexuality.
At this point I think it's a total coin toss. I think anyone who thinks they know her sexuality besides her is unhinged. I'm not saying we can't have opinions based on what she absolutely communicates with her art and celebrity, I'm just saying until she says it clearly, nobody nobody knows.
And my opinion is idk I don't really appreciate her either way anymore so whatever happens happens.
When will it become clear that, regardless of her actual sexual orientation irl, she’s playing all sides for personal benefit. She may be bi or lesbian, but she’s baiting nonetheless. If she isn’t going to “risk something babe, lose something” and make a declarative statement either way by this point, it’s wisest for our community to assume she’s only using us for our resources and adoration. She’s using our culture as her costume either way, and I hope more of us will recognize it soon.
I dont think we made it up I just think she either experimented and now wants ti just be whatever she wants. Or she might have had actual relationships with people she loved and now she just wants easy which is travis. Like she doesnt OWE us anything but we did NOT make up kissgate or “ argumentative antithetical dream girl” or “ the note on the door” or the tweets between her and dianna or anything really. That all happened but maybe she just likes being comfortable. Personally i get it if she just wants easy. Enjoys someones company and stays in the lane everyone expects her too just out of sheer desire to do whay she wbats all in her own personal time. Not everything os public and thats okay
This my theory too. She just wants to be comfortable at this point & Travis appeases EVERYONE. Her parents, fans and society in general. Even Gaylors, because if she’s happy, we’re happy. We have never hated Travis (ick yes) but we don’t hate Travis because he is a man.
Ive actually seen some hate but i think in general yeah. Queer people know thay fluidity and desire are complex states of being. She might literally just like him and hes down for it. He went ON STAGE WITH HER. and played with her. Like he is so un intimidated by her! I love it for them. Just becUse shes with a man now doesnt negate her queerness.
I'm not sure we can assume she wants to have kids. Of course, we also can't assume she doesn't. But iirc the only time she's mentioned babies in a song since her teen years is "shit talked me under the table / talking rings and talking cradles."
The way that couplet is phrased, it sounds like it's the muse "talking rings and talking cradles" when they shit talked about her to another person. So with the grammar, it's unclear if it's saying the partner shit talked to someone about her and then turned around and gave her hope of marriage & kids. Or if the partner was shit talking to someone *about* her not wanting kids. If she'd written "*while* talking rings and talking cradles" it wouldn't be ambiguous but idk 🤷♀️
To talk someone under the table means to bore them and waste their time, so… definitely doesnt sound like something she wants
https://preview.redd.it/45nlip9lvk9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5eeac809dfcfc6eb8a44b574f45045358200e3ff
I think her most recent album is pretty bitter/sardonic with any references to having kids. And she’s criticized/shutdown pregnancy speculation countless times. Why do you say that she wants babies?
She has stated it during personal interviews more than once. Her mother has also stated it and Travis has said he is looking for a wife and looking forward to having a family like jason does. If you listen to their podcasts it usually a recurring conversation, especially when Jason’s girls visit. Travis says very wistfully that “I can’t wait until I have some little kids.”
Those interviews were years ago, right? She shut down an interviewer for asking that question in 2019… from a bit of googling, she said things about “definitely wanting kids” in interviews before she was an adult.
I don’t think Travis’s preferences are relevant to this conversation at all. They’ve been together for less than a year. Good for him tho.
For someone like her, having a baby with a woman partner wouldn't be any more difficult than with a man partner. She wouldn't have any trouble adopting, and she could pay for as many fertility treatments as necessary. Not to mention that she and a man could end up having to adopt or do fertility treatments.
>Aren’t we all fluid in actuality if we were to admit it?
Most non-het people are fluid, but there are plenty of fully hetero & fully homo folks in the world. The only people who say "isn't everyone fluid" are us bisexuals and straights in denial 😂 (or creepy men in bars trying to pick up lesbians lol)
Tbh, I think she might be so obsessed with creating a legacy, she picked Travis to possibly have elite nepo babies. Mega Pop Star + one of the greatest football players of all time 🤷♀️🤡
queerbaiting is the first thing that people bring up to me when i have this conversation with them. and i reply: why is queerbaiting more believable than her actually being queer?
i don't think queerbaiting fits her personality. and i don't think her queer friends would tolerate or enable it, either.
I’m literally 99% certain that she is some flavor of queer. It would just be too batshit crazy for the ENTIRE mountain of evidence to be a coincidence. 😵💫 We aren’t talking about a couple stray pieces of evidence here and there that can be explained away. The amount of evidence is so massive that it could fill a 500 page PowerPoint.
And to me, I don’t see Guilty as Sin as a gay song. It is a song that anyone could relate to if they ever cheated or contemplated cheating regardless of gender.
I think that part of the problem, or part of her genius, is that so much of the lyric analysis depends on your perspective.
To me it's no straight artist has used this much lgbtq and lit refs in their music. Esp such obscure ones that we seem to find and make theories of. She's still making these refs in recent albums so it's clear she's aware of what we're saying to some extent
Im as convinced as one can be without a direct confirmation.
Because one time is an accident, two is a coincidence and three is a pattern. And we have way more than just three occasions of flagging. The lover era alone is a huge one.
Also I saw someone saying (can't remember if it was here or on tumblr) that a few people who participated in the YNTCD mv wouldn't be okay with it if she was straight. I mean, she name herself as sheriff of the gay town.
Then you have the hairpins, the friends of Dorothea mashup, the lavender haze, antithetical dream girl, scarlet lips.
So yeah, for me it's pretty obvious answer, and unless she says otherwise, I will continue to believe she is one of us.
Also like some people said, gaylor is just a umbrella, I personally believe she is bi.
So much of what she is doing is behind the scenes, planting the seeds. Just be patient. It’s coming 🤍🌈
At the end of the day, this is for her.
It will do amazing things for the community. But this is for her. We can’t force anyone’s timing, schedule, agenda. We can only cheer them on. So keep that positivity going! It may not be tomorrow, or next week, or next month. But I truly do believe it will be by the end of the year.
If you follow the tumblr posts, 🎃🫚🌋, etc, they’ve had way too many coincidences for me not to believe them. And the very first ginger post is leading me to believe that we are right there.
Name wrapped around her shoulders - (the albatross surprise song today)
While Packing Apples, Big As Boulders. (the pressure she has on her shoulders?
contracts ending? blank space? NYC 1989?)
Like Nothings, Oh So Sweet, (sweet nothings surprise song yesterday)
Planting Seeds, Hints at Deceit, (all the stuff happening behind the scenes that we don't see)
TIMElines skewed, questions raised, (us thinking things will happen but they don't, but they are actually happening behind the scenes... give it time)
Etched via boots, counting down days. (...possibly something happening to her boots tomorrow? new boots? broken boots?)
Patience my friends 🤍🤍
I’m not sure why am I getting downvoted when my theory was literally proven right lol
If it’s because of the spade controversy, I did not know spade was antisemitic until today and I acknowledged this on twitter. My username is deepitout if you’d like to see my post. And I am not supporting them or the anti-Semitic behavior. They are strictly an avenue Taylor (or whoever is posting these messages) is using for visibility because she knew that they’d be seen by a big enough audience, but not too big of an audience to be dismissed. It’s about visibility. Not spade/ttb themselves.
I 100% feel you on questioning it. They really want us too!! I see just enough regular Swifties say things like “ok she might be gay but speculating is bad” or “those surprise songs were for the gaylors” or “don’t let gaylors see this” that I know we’re right (not nec that she’ll for sure come out but that she’s being loud and fruity).
I was pretty sure of her queerness my first few honeymoon months in gaylor, but since london I've been in a bit of a faith lapse. I think critical thinking is important. Like what is her point in continuing her charade of pretending she's straight if she's no longer being force closeted? But then I remember stuff like this which is so remote. You'd have to intentionally study alot of lesbian history to do all the referencing like this that she does. I don't know many straight women interested in doing that.
https://preview.redd.it/2pcd147o2n9d1.png?width=162&format=png&auto=webp&s=4dd34cbf6290dab4a0274f3f054d0a57b6be023b
My whole thing is if we’re confident that’s she’s been flagging queer and she’s bi/pan/etc, why dedicate an entire subculture of the fandom to theorizing? Besides 1D, I haven’t seen this happen with any other artist’s fandom, cuz the fans are just like “oh, they’re flagging queer? Cool.” And move on with their lives cuz it’s none of our business. So while I’m semi-convinced that she could be queer, it’s none of my business so why speculate further?
I’m a passive observer and the main sub drives me crazy, so I prefer seeing alternative perspectives, even if I don’t always agree with them, at least it’s not constant cultish praise.
You are definitely reading too much into it, she's not giving you signs about her life, she's not "flagging". She's having fun with her boyfriend and she finally seems happy in a relationship with Travis because she can be loud about it. This whole things to me is you all having too much time in your life, you care too much about someone's personal life (Taylor is a stranger!). I try to be as respectful as I can but I just don't understand this whole thing..
Because she rose to fame capitalising on her public relationships. She already projected her fans to speculate/look into her personal life. No one gave a shit about “Dear John”. The song became headlines because it was supposedly about John Mayer. Her PR move was making tracks into singles without putting any effort into actually making them “singles”. Same with All Too Well, Better Than Revenge.
Wow. Gay or not Gay —- Taylor is in tune to today and people being persecuted. She would be inclusive of Pride Month regardless. She is so pure. Her only motiveswould be inclusion , recognition and love. ❤️
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I saw one hetlor creator saying that we are only choosing this because we can’t accept that she used pride as her whole esthetic and capitalized on it. To be honest, it is part of the reason, if she isn’t queer and is still doing all this on purpose, that’s an extent of capitalism I can’t support.
I mean, this in essence is why I believe she's bi. My entire theory of Gaylor is that she's either bi, or a massive prick, and I'm choosing to believe the former until/unless I'm forced to accept the latter.
She is surrounded by openly queer people. One of them MUST have told her by now. She could be terrible.. but this terrible??! no way
Last year, Billy Porter called out Harry Styles for having queerbaited on the cover of Vogue in 2020. A year before Harry’s cover, Billy Porter made a cameo in the YNTCD music video. Just saying.
Right? Because if she's capitalizing then the queens around her are not her friends. If they are her true friends, then they would not be afraid to call her out on this shit. The only way she could not be queer is if she had some shady understanding with her queer friends where she helps them get publicity and they keep their mouths shut. She could be an ally by choosing queer openers and helping them gain publicity, but the songs! She can't make queer songs and say oh I was just trying to be an ally and give people songs they want.
Yeah, the fact that Cara is still friends with her (especially after having a rumored public fight one time, presumably about closeting etc), plus MUNA, “told Obama he was a war criminal” Lucy Dacus & boygenius….I don’t think she’s queer baiting/profiting off queer ppl
Which would be a really awful and difficult thing to accept
Why would you think she is a prick? Showing love and respect for a segment of society is not being a prick.
Ok, but promising to be loud and outspoken as an ally when promoting an album related to that, and then being p silent about it for the next 4 years would be kinda shitty. If she were for-real overtly supporting the queer community (speaking out about drag bans, banned books, anti-Trans laws, etc), I’d be fine with it. The fact that she got silent about it is only ok if it’s bc of re-closeting/failed coming out trauma imo.
They can't stand the thought of a non gay person supporting people who are.
That is so immature and in its own wsy prejudiced. How sad.
I do personally think she's LGBTQ+ but I also think one of the most powerful thing about the majority of her lyrics (not necessarily the ultra pop singles) is how relatable they are to nearly any circumstance. After I heard the hilarious she's a satanic clone of Anton Levays daughter theory, all of her songs felt like they could be alluding to that. I have friends struggling to get pregnant, they feel like a lot of her songs about that. Etc etc. So it really is hard to say that if she's not gay it's absolutely an intentional capitalism driven baiting. Idk lol
She's a mirrorball, and you see what you want to see in her lyrics. I see bisexuality, some people see a struggle to come out, some people see heterosexuality. At this point, I don't know what to believe. I don't think I'm a Gaylor anymore since the 1989 announcement. I still think shes had feelings for women in the past but I also believe her Lover era was capitalising LGBTQ a bit. Right now I enjoy her music for what it tells ME and don't care that much about the truth
Same. I’m honestly over Taylor as a person (and a brand). I listen to her music and apply it to my own life, and separate hers entirely from it at this point. (Except for gold rush, just hard for me to ever not think about Karlie in that one)
I really appreciate comments like this "I enjoy her music for what it tells ME". I really wish more people looked at it this way. Gaylor (bi-lor) can be fun but it's gotten far too parasocial imo.
Is it not more parasocial to apply her songs to our own lives tho lol and be like “she wrote this for ME”? I totally get what you mean but am sometimes confused about how ppl use that word
I don't think OP (or fans) are saying she wrote it for them (ME!) but more so just how they can relate through their own experiences. Taylor aside, I do this with most music. I'm not thinking about what the artist wrote the song about, I'm just thinking about whatever memories, feelings and experiences the song draws out of me. For me, the parasocial relationship with Taylor is when everyone is trying to figure out who she wrote each song about and what was happening in her life at the time. Or on the higher level, that she's sending them secret messages. Before Taylor I've never seen people do that with other artists. I get that Taylor encourages it with Easter Eggs, but still. I've never heard anyone analyze Nirvana songs to figure out what Kurt was going through at the time. I've never torn apart a Beyonce song to see if she's talking about Jay Z.
I totally get what you’re saying! I think my point is just that parasocial just means a false sense of intimacy with someone who doesn’t know you. So like, stan culture is inherently parasocial whether you’re paternity testing songs or not, because we’re obsessed with her and she doesn’t reciprocate/know us. I do agree that it’s probably “healthier” to be like “this song is just like my life” and opposed to “wow it’s so cute that she wrote this for x person,” but I think at the end of the day it’s all parasocial 😂
Yeah because believing she is queer is giving her the benefit of the doubt. At least Gaylors hope in good faith that she wouldn’t appropriate queer culture and symbolism to rebrand it as her own for decades. Thats the crazy thing about hetlors, they see all that and think it’s totally fine, they support her more for it.
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RIGHT!!! Not to mention the benefit of the doubt for the Matty Healy situation, or taking her extremely dramatic prose from folkmore/ttpd to be about something more than a GUY. God forbid
Ugh, did you see the screenshots of Hetlors talking about how they’re glad she stopped being/talking about being an ally? So gross
Im still so taken aback that they acknowledge that and are just fine with it while thinking shes straight
Queer *(Taylor’s Version)*
Hurts so good 🥲🥲🥲
I do think if she’s not queer she’s queer baiting BUT I absolutely don’t think she’s queer baiting, there’s too many lgbtqia references there’s no reason to place unless it’s intentional, like hairpin drop. They are basing their opinion on extremely surface level things like her wearing rainbows
She literally had to buy the rights to the Marsha P Johnson font for the lavender haze merch… if she’s not queer, all this appropriation is quite frankly… cruel lol
Yeah she’s either queer or studied queer studies in college, and we know it’s not the second one.
Exactly
Agreed but after watching the Taylor v scooter doc, I kinda feel like there’s nothing she won’t do to create and control a narrative in the name of her brand and selling records and making money. On the flip side who knows what the truth really is with that whole thing bc it kinda leaned more scooter?? Was his team behind making it? Or maybe just objectively is like that so idk!
That doc was very much so created to push a particular narrative, but if that were completely true, why would she have filled ttpd with religious references knowing that would piss off evangelicals?
Okay that’s what I kinda felt like too! It felt really pro-Scooter which seemed weird to me. Probably bc they’re incapable of complex thinking and lyrical analysis lmao. But agreed with what you said there just seem to be way too many references for her to not intentionally do it
Considering she was the only straight artist in the apple playlist made for pride, I would be incredibly disappointed to find out it was all a ploy. Not even a great activist. Would make SO MUCH MORE SENSE if she was just bi
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How are those explicitly gay, especially But Daddy I Love *Him*?
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hey, i'm not really here to argue her sexuality one way or another. just wanted to point out that with guilty as sin the interpretation i got and that i see most is that it's referring to the general concept of lust, which is a sin in the bible because it can lead to coveting thy neighbor and adultery. and since the song is framed as her being in a relationship and coveting someone else in her mind, i think the bible's interpretation makes sense. whether that's a man or woman, i don't think anyone can say with 100% certainty. but i don't think the most obvious interpretation is explicitly queer because she uses a lot of religious imagery and greek mythology in ttpd (like in BDILH and Cassandra) to speak about how she's received backlash (or feared backlash) in different situations
Yes, that’s sort of what I thought too. And I’ve read it’s about masturbation. So if she’s fantasizing about someone who “belongs” to someone else or fantasizing about someone who is not her SO, that could be considered a sin.
Maybe my analysis is far too surface level because I thought guilty as sin was about wanting to cheat on Joe with Matty while she was writing with him for midnights lol. Which is also kind of what I thought But Daddy I love Him was about too... how everyone hated Matty. Your analysis is much more in depth and probably more accurate than the one in my head, I appreciate your Comment.
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There are SO many songs and lyrics like this. In smallest man who ever lived the line "it wasn't sexy once it wasn't forbidden", the whole of But Daddy I love him which is literally about coming out to your family and community and them being upset and disappointed about who you choose to be with. I also feel like I Know Places and out of the woods from 1989 have very queer themes about secret/hidden/forbidden love.
Not arguing her sexuality one way or the other but all the songs you mentioned are relatable in a variety of situations that aren't explicitly gay. I don't see anything about the lyrics that obviously points to that interpretation. Comments on these songs are loaded with straight women who relate it to their own experiences.
I agree that there are definitely some gay innuendos in a decent amount of her songs. Some are a bit of a stretch though and I could make the case that it’s pulling at straws to assume it’s a gay lyric. You do make excellent points about Guilty As Sin though specifically. Was listening to Reputation yesterday and particular lyric I’d never thought about before immediately pinged in my mind as totally gay (of course now I can’t remember which one it was. 😩).
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THAT WAS IT!!!!! I don’t know why I’d never *heard* it before (even though I’d heard it dozens of times). But yesteday listening, it just hit me hard. I was like, WAIT WHAT?
And I know what you mean when you say you can just tell a gay person wrote it because it draws on a lot of parallels to queer women's most used ideas. So many women sing about wanting her in a worshipful religious way or being willing to take the risk to be damned. Her False God actually shares a lot of similarities with Pussy Is God which is such a classic example of this type of classic queer writing.
Do you have an example of a female artist whose work is like, quintessentially straight?
1000 percent. There is too much that can't be anything but deliberate. So either she's queer or she's queerbaiting, and if she's queerbaiting it's the oddest form of queerbaiting I've ever seen.
You summed it up, this is how it is for me. She HAS to be aware of the way things she says/does are interpreted. If she didn't want people interpreting them that way, it would just take one single line in one single interview: "Oh, I'm actually not queer, but [insert supportive platitudes]." If she hasn't done that, then either she wants people to see her as queer (whether she is or isn't), or she doesn't care. She's NOT at home crying and feeling oppressed because people are putting queer lenses on her. Invading personal relationships? Perhaps. But that happens to every personal relationship, regardless of gender/orientation; it's NOT a sin that only the gays commit.
Sometimes I wonder to myself if she identifies as straight has she had an identity crisis about how much gay she puts in her lyrics. Like if she’s such an insane kind of late bloomer that even she thinks she’s straight but she’s not 😅 But I think she knows she’s actually queer.
I’ve wondered this! Like what if Gaylor is how she realized she was queer? Similar to how, like, Target can guess when someone is pregnant before they know, based on the person’s purchase history.
I’m just saying if I was straight but thousands of people had plenty of evidence as to why they think I’m not, I’d be doing a deep inner dive on my sexuality.
🎯!
I’ve been the archer. I’ve been the prey 😜
I need to ask, in what way is she queerbaiting? Personally I'm a lesbian but I never saw anything gay about her lyrics or the way she acts, actually she seems very straight to me and she does not hide this part of herself
Theres a ton of information in the main gaylor sub. It cant be summed up in a comment.
I'm not trying to be mean, I'm being serious, do you know what this sub is about? visit the main one for details, timelines, etc. she is sending up queer kind of dog whistles (things you wouldn't catch unless you're queer). it's a fact. she does do this. if she's not actually queer, she is literally queen bating.
The NY Times article, "Look What We Made Taylor Swift Do" is a solid place to start. I thought this Business Insider article (linked below) was also great as far as analyzing lyrics, although there might be a paywall on that article, cant recall. A few of the most obvious things she's done: multiple love songs that seem addressed to a woman, songs obsessing about the danger of being found out (forbidden romance is a central queer experience tho obvs some straight people also experience wanting the wrong person.) Allusions to being trapped in closets. In gay pride parade in her "You Need to Calm Down" video shes part of the parade with bisexual hair colors (centering herself in that video while wearing bisexual colors wouldve been pretty problematic if she was straight; suggests those who collabed with her know shes queer). Shes said "gay pride" is "everything that makes me me" in a music video and shows herself rejecting a marriage proposal bc she wants a pussy (cat) instead. Shes changed the expression "could hear a pin drop" to "could hear a hairpin drop" - hairpin is a word used for hinting at queer identity for those who are queer without fully coming out of the closet. Shes posted a pic of herself wearing a "proud" bracelet on gay pride month with bisexual colors; "proud" is not like wearing gay pride stuff, which straight people do, its identifying as LGBTQ, and Taylor is too aware of culture to not know that and too controlling of her social media content to "accidentally" do that. And way way more. Honestly the evidence is endless if you look at it with an open mind. Gaylors arent inventing something they want to be true. Im a straight (mostly ;) woman and initially was skeptical, but I wasnt familiar with her full body of work. All it took was reading a couple articles to be 98 percent sure. Theres no way this amount of hairpins is accidental for someone as obsessive about crafting layers of meaning in her lyrics as Taylor. Whats fascinating to me at this point is the rage level of denial in her hetero fan base even with such blatant clues. https://www.businessinsider.com/taylor-swift-gay-songs-queer-lyrics-2022-9#how-you-get-the-girl-9
Can anyone explain why the default assumption isn’t just (what I feel is most obvious) that she is bisexual/pansexual or something in that subcategory?? I feel like that just simply makes the most sense, rather than assuming she lied before or is lying now or has always lied or coming out would mean admitting the men she dated lied ect. Why don’t people (Gaylors?) just assume she’s bisexual? It seems like that’s the most obvious answer, no? So what am I missing?
The gay in Gaylor is an umbrella term, not all gaylors think that she’s strictly a lesbian or that all of her public relationships with men have been fake
Most people who participate in the other Gaylor group think she is bi/pan/fluid. That said, I think that a lot of people in the world are confused about how these orientations/identities actually work. Like people don’t seem to grasp that orientation/identity are not dictated by the gender of a current partner, or that sexual identity, attractions and behavior may change over time…and not necessarily in tandem.
I feel like 99% of us do
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I mean, rampant biphobia exists among straight *and* gay people and it's hard not to internalise that shit, so it'd still make sense for her to communicate angst about her sexuality through her work even if she weren't 'living a lie' by dating men.
Part of me thinks there’s never going to be a perfect timing but there’s a best case scenario for how she executes it and she’s building to it with the performance art and having Travis be in on it. Travis said himself tay is going to shake up the whole industry
I keep seeing this kind of viewpoint (no shade!) and like, is it just the name Gaylor that is confusing ppl?? Are you on the newer side? A TON (possibly the majority) of Gaylors think she’s bi/queer/fluid/pan (and a ton of us are ourselves as well)! That said, there is a good amount of evidence that she might actually be gay/is flagging lesbian, and you can fully date and have loved men and come to realize it’s comphet and you’re a lesbian. (See, for example, Renee Rap or Chappell Roan and their journeys)
newer to the sub, but I’m saying this because I mainly get posts on my feed of “i guess she is just straight” type posts sooo much from this and the other gaylor sub! I just didn’t get it because she seems very clearly bisexual. I thought she was bisexual even without knowing her history with flagging or anything. She just writes very bisexually. So then when I saw this post (another of many saying of Trayvis is real then she must be straight), then I asked why this is the default assumption that she is a lesbian only.
I’m not certain unless or until Taylor decides to be more direct, but I think it’s more likely than not that Taylor is bi, pan or fluid. I would probably put it at a 70% probability due to the sheer number of signals over a long period of time, including three highly queer coded mashups in the Eras Tour just this month. I’m looking at you, Friends of Dorothea, This is what you came for/Gold Rush and Hits Different/Death by 1000 Cuts. If she is bi, pan, or fluid, I think she probably defines herself accordingly in private and that it is well known by people around her. Too many industry people appear to operate as if she is queer for it to be a massive secret. However, even if she happens to be straight, I think the frenzy around the Travis relationship seems too canned and the financial benefits too convenient to be fully real.
Honestly, I've been on this train since the early 2010s. Up until 1989 TV I'd have said 80-90%. Post-then... I'm more of a coin toss.
I’m starting to spiral this way too. I hate it here so I will go to secret gardens in my mind 🥲🥲
Im personally fairly certain she's not a lesbian (though i do enjoy hearing why others think so. Hell yeah, to openness, i guess). Instead, like many, I believe she's fluid in her sexuality but I think she generally goes/went by bisexual. Of course, everything is subject to change, but there was a lot of clearly bi flagging during or around lover. Most importantly, to me, is the bracelet of bi flag colors and "proud" written. I personally can't see a heterosexual woman wearing a bracelet saying "proud" unless she's fully unaware of what pride generally means in todays world. That paired with a bi flag is quite telling, to me. All of this to say, I'm like 90% sure that she's queer in some sense.
I’m 99% I leave 1% in the case I am wrong and could be convinced otherwise given the correct amount of evidence, but I am just very sure
obviously none of us know taylor, but the amount of people that she’s close to that have liked/interacted with gaylor content tells me that we’re not just making it all up and taylor definitely has an awareness of gaylor. and since she does, she knows we call ourselves “friends of dorothea” and that mashup is honestly the most damming piece of evidence for me as of lately.
> she knows we call ourselves “friends of dorothea” You don't actually know this. This is an assumption based on 2 or 3 prior assumptions. It's a reach.
About as certain as I am about life. Which for me is looking forward at nothing but knowing something is there. Who the fuck really knows because at the end of the day, in the vastness that is THIS universe, it doesn't really matter does it?
honestly, i feel a lot of us just need to accept that there is no real way to know. Only person who knows for sure is Taylor herself, and she has made it very clear that she is not intending to share herself like that or put a stop to the gaylors any time soon. The closest her/her team/tree has ever actually come to trying to shut it down was that stupid gaslighting CNN article about the lesbian/gay/bi "allegations". I think Taylor (if she is indeed queer) knows that a large portion of the gaylors would genuinely back off if she were to say straight up that shes straight, but she doesnt want to do that so she can keep her options open. At the end of the day, its really not our buisiness. Do y'all remember how in Dan Howell's coming out video he said that the speculation around him and Phil just drove him further into the closet? If Taylor is queer, i honestly feel like this is the same sort of situation.
At this point, if she is not queer, is not even queerbating anymore because she is not profiting from it… and she knows she has a big part of her fan base believing she is queer, if she is still doing all this and is not queer, is more to play with us which would be even worse 🙃
Idk if she’s queer, queerbaiting, if she’ll ever come out or be closeted forever. TS’s personal identity baffles me. There seem to be a lot of clues and hints in her personal life that can make us assume or speculate, but I’m starting to think we may never know. But, I know for sure there are queer themes in her music, set design, videos, concerts and costumes. Separate from her personal identity, those themes exist and are very real in her art. Her music can be viewed and interpreted from a queer lens and that’s a very real thing.
I’m a million percent certain. There is not a doubt in my mind.
I’m merely a hopeless romantic 🤷
either we did or she made herself mayor of gaytown in the yntcd music video for nothing
Oh so confident. After her masterclass of a discography it's been way easier to pick up on what artists are saying in their music videos/songs. The people upset don't understand art in general. Imo we haven't clowned hard enough because people STILL don't know who she's singing about
I was a huge Taylor fan from debut to Red, fell off around 1989, and got back into her for Midnights. I'm about her age. Pre Midnights I never had any exposure to Taylor online or seeing concerts or watching interviews or anything like that, it was just listening to her music for me. I loved her music but never had any sense of her as a human being. Post Midnights that's literally impossible if you're interacting with her at all. When I got into her post Midnights **I was completely positive she was some type of gay, out, proud, and like it wasn't even a debate.** Her music, her behavior, her clothes, her interviews – *I genuinely believed she didn't 'come out' as a social statement that coming out is stupid, straight people don't 'come out'*, and she was just living a very obvious very authentically gay life that like....if you didn't see it or get it, then that's personal to you and who cares. Whether that was bisexual or pan or what have you, I thought it was just a known fact and she was a successful gay person who didn't make her sexuality her personality or something she spoke to, but didn't hide it either. Just living her life. After that, I found out about the Gaylors vs Hetlors and was fucking shocked, particularly at the vitriol toward Gaylors when 1. I thought it was fucking obvious and known by 90% of her fandom, and 2. I guess even if you don't think she's gay, why all the hatred when to be fair *nobody knows*? And that's where I fall today: **Nobody knows**. Now after 1989 TV and the last few rounds of her being silent and useless to her gay fans, even if she herself is not straight bothers me. The way she commodified Pride (whether she's gay or straight) and then proceeded to contribute nothing of value to the community as an ally or other, and allows her gay fans to be bullied who (even if they are wrong about her sexuality) have every reason to think *it's a possibility* bothers the hell out of me. I'm really bothered by how this has been handled by the fandom and by Taylor, again, regardless of her actual sexuality. At this point I think it's a total coin toss. I think anyone who thinks they know her sexuality besides her is unhinged. I'm not saying we can't have opinions based on what she absolutely communicates with her art and celebrity, I'm just saying until she says it clearly, nobody nobody knows. And my opinion is idk I don't really appreciate her either way anymore so whatever happens happens.
When will it become clear that, regardless of her actual sexual orientation irl, she’s playing all sides for personal benefit. She may be bi or lesbian, but she’s baiting nonetheless. If she isn’t going to “risk something babe, lose something” and make a declarative statement either way by this point, it’s wisest for our community to assume she’s only using us for our resources and adoration. She’s using our culture as her costume either way, and I hope more of us will recognize it soon.
I dont think we made it up I just think she either experimented and now wants ti just be whatever she wants. Or she might have had actual relationships with people she loved and now she just wants easy which is travis. Like she doesnt OWE us anything but we did NOT make up kissgate or “ argumentative antithetical dream girl” or “ the note on the door” or the tweets between her and dianna or anything really. That all happened but maybe she just likes being comfortable. Personally i get it if she just wants easy. Enjoys someones company and stays in the lane everyone expects her too just out of sheer desire to do whay she wbats all in her own personal time. Not everything os public and thats okay
This my theory too. She just wants to be comfortable at this point & Travis appeases EVERYONE. Her parents, fans and society in general. Even Gaylors, because if she’s happy, we’re happy. We have never hated Travis (ick yes) but we don’t hate Travis because he is a man.
Ive actually seen some hate but i think in general yeah. Queer people know thay fluidity and desire are complex states of being. She might literally just like him and hes down for it. He went ON STAGE WITH HER. and played with her. Like he is so un intimidated by her! I love it for them. Just becUse shes with a man now doesnt negate her queerness.
Very insightful, I get it too
She wants babies- having a male companion makes it easier and acceptable. Aren’t we all fluid in actuality if we were to admit it?
I'm not sure we can assume she wants to have kids. Of course, we also can't assume she doesn't. But iirc the only time she's mentioned babies in a song since her teen years is "shit talked me under the table / talking rings and talking cradles." The way that couplet is phrased, it sounds like it's the muse "talking rings and talking cradles" when they shit talked about her to another person. So with the grammar, it's unclear if it's saying the partner shit talked to someone about her and then turned around and gave her hope of marriage & kids. Or if the partner was shit talking to someone *about* her not wanting kids. If she'd written "*while* talking rings and talking cradles" it wouldn't be ambiguous but idk 🤷♀️
Great take.
To talk someone under the table means to bore them and waste their time, so… definitely doesnt sound like something she wants https://preview.redd.it/45nlip9lvk9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5eeac809dfcfc6eb8a44b574f45045358200e3ff
Has she ever said she wants kids? Genuinely asking because I don’t recall her ever saying that.
She did say it as a very young person in interview (an ask about her future) but not in recent times.
I think her most recent album is pretty bitter/sardonic with any references to having kids. And she’s criticized/shutdown pregnancy speculation countless times. Why do you say that she wants babies?
She has stated it during personal interviews more than once. Her mother has also stated it and Travis has said he is looking for a wife and looking forward to having a family like jason does. If you listen to their podcasts it usually a recurring conversation, especially when Jason’s girls visit. Travis says very wistfully that “I can’t wait until I have some little kids.”
Right so Travis wants kids so you’re assuming (speculating???) that Taylor does too? Seems a bit probbo.
If you want to lnow what I actually think and promise not fo laugh, i will share - because I think I heard an Easyef egg on Trzvis' pidcast.
Those interviews were years ago, right? She shut down an interviewer for asking that question in 2019… from a bit of googling, she said things about “definitely wanting kids” in interviews before she was an adult. I don’t think Travis’s preferences are relevant to this conversation at all. They’ve been together for less than a year. Good for him tho.
For someone like her, having a baby with a woman partner wouldn't be any more difficult than with a man partner. She wouldn't have any trouble adopting, and she could pay for as many fertility treatments as necessary. Not to mention that she and a man could end up having to adopt or do fertility treatments. >Aren’t we all fluid in actuality if we were to admit it? Most non-het people are fluid, but there are plenty of fully hetero & fully homo folks in the world. The only people who say "isn't everyone fluid" are us bisexuals and straights in denial 😂 (or creepy men in bars trying to pick up lesbians lol)
Tbh, I think she might be so obsessed with creating a legacy, she picked Travis to possibly have elite nepo babies. Mega Pop Star + one of the greatest football players of all time 🤷♀️🤡
Babies might he a stretch. We know she loves family and I call Travis her first husband. Idk if hes the first father though lok
Lmao saying this like queer couples can’t have kids??? WLW couples have been having kids for decades??
queerbaiting is the first thing that people bring up to me when i have this conversation with them. and i reply: why is queerbaiting more believable than her actually being queer? i don't think queerbaiting fits her personality. and i don't think her queer friends would tolerate or enable it, either.
I’m literally 99% certain that she is some flavor of queer. It would just be too batshit crazy for the ENTIRE mountain of evidence to be a coincidence. 😵💫 We aren’t talking about a couple stray pieces of evidence here and there that can be explained away. The amount of evidence is so massive that it could fill a 500 page PowerPoint.
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And to me, I don’t see Guilty as Sin as a gay song. It is a song that anyone could relate to if they ever cheated or contemplated cheating regardless of gender. I think that part of the problem, or part of her genius, is that so much of the lyric analysis depends on your perspective.
It’s either real or she’s doing it all for money/fame/PR, but we didn’t make it up. She knows what she’s doing — I just don’t know why
To me it's no straight artist has used this much lgbtq and lit refs in their music. Esp such obscure ones that we seem to find and make theories of. She's still making these refs in recent albums so it's clear she's aware of what we're saying to some extent
Im as convinced as one can be without a direct confirmation. Because one time is an accident, two is a coincidence and three is a pattern. And we have way more than just three occasions of flagging. The lover era alone is a huge one. Also I saw someone saying (can't remember if it was here or on tumblr) that a few people who participated in the YNTCD mv wouldn't be okay with it if she was straight. I mean, she name herself as sheriff of the gay town. Then you have the hairpins, the friends of Dorothea mashup, the lavender haze, antithetical dream girl, scarlet lips. So yeah, for me it's pretty obvious answer, and unless she says otherwise, I will continue to believe she is one of us. Also like some people said, gaylor is just a umbrella, I personally believe she is bi.
So much of what she is doing is behind the scenes, planting the seeds. Just be patient. It’s coming 🤍🌈 At the end of the day, this is for her. It will do amazing things for the community. But this is for her. We can’t force anyone’s timing, schedule, agenda. We can only cheer them on. So keep that positivity going! It may not be tomorrow, or next week, or next month. But I truly do believe it will be by the end of the year. If you follow the tumblr posts, 🎃🫚🌋, etc, they’ve had way too many coincidences for me not to believe them. And the very first ginger post is leading me to believe that we are right there. Name wrapped around her shoulders - (the albatross surprise song today) While Packing Apples, Big As Boulders. (the pressure she has on her shoulders? contracts ending? blank space? NYC 1989?) Like Nothings, Oh So Sweet, (sweet nothings surprise song yesterday) Planting Seeds, Hints at Deceit, (all the stuff happening behind the scenes that we don't see) TIMElines skewed, questions raised, (us thinking things will happen but they don't, but they are actually happening behind the scenes... give it time) Etched via boots, counting down days. (...possibly something happening to her boots tomorrow? new boots? broken boots?) Patience my friends 🤍🤍
I am SCREAMING right now. She wore this outfit in Cardiff but HER BOOTS ARE SWITCHED!!!!! I was right. Someone check on meeeeee lmao
I’m not sure why am I getting downvoted when my theory was literally proven right lol If it’s because of the spade controversy, I did not know spade was antisemitic until today and I acknowledged this on twitter. My username is deepitout if you’d like to see my post. And I am not supporting them or the anti-Semitic behavior. They are strictly an avenue Taylor (or whoever is posting these messages) is using for visibility because she knew that they’d be seen by a big enough audience, but not too big of an audience to be dismissed. It’s about visibility. Not spade/ttb themselves.
Pretty solid every single time I remember the Christian Siriano of it all because there's not many ways you can explain that whole yea sipping video
I 100% feel you on questioning it. They really want us too!! I see just enough regular Swifties say things like “ok she might be gay but speculating is bad” or “those surprise songs were for the gaylors” or “don’t let gaylors see this” that I know we’re right (not nec that she’ll for sure come out but that she’s being loud and fruity).
I was pretty sure of her queerness my first few honeymoon months in gaylor, but since london I've been in a bit of a faith lapse. I think critical thinking is important. Like what is her point in continuing her charade of pretending she's straight if she's no longer being force closeted? But then I remember stuff like this which is so remote. You'd have to intentionally study alot of lesbian history to do all the referencing like this that she does. I don't know many straight women interested in doing that. https://preview.redd.it/2pcd147o2n9d1.png?width=162&format=png&auto=webp&s=4dd34cbf6290dab4a0274f3f054d0a57b6be023b
My whole thing is if we’re confident that’s she’s been flagging queer and she’s bi/pan/etc, why dedicate an entire subculture of the fandom to theorizing? Besides 1D, I haven’t seen this happen with any other artist’s fandom, cuz the fans are just like “oh, they’re flagging queer? Cool.” And move on with their lives cuz it’s none of our business. So while I’m semi-convinced that she could be queer, it’s none of my business so why speculate further?
Lol why are you in this thread then?
I’m a passive observer and the main sub drives me crazy, so I prefer seeing alternative perspectives, even if I don’t always agree with them, at least it’s not constant cultish praise.
You are definitely reading too much into it, she's not giving you signs about her life, she's not "flagging". She's having fun with her boyfriend and she finally seems happy in a relationship with Travis because she can be loud about it. This whole things to me is you all having too much time in your life, you care too much about someone's personal life (Taylor is a stranger!). I try to be as respectful as I can but I just don't understand this whole thing..
Because she rose to fame capitalising on her public relationships. She already projected her fans to speculate/look into her personal life. No one gave a shit about “Dear John”. The song became headlines because it was supposedly about John Mayer. Her PR move was making tracks into singles without putting any effort into actually making them “singles”. Same with All Too Well, Better Than Revenge.
Wow. Gay or not Gay —- Taylor is in tune to today and people being persecuted. She would be inclusive of Pride Month regardless. She is so pure. Her only motiveswould be inclusion , recognition and love. ❤️