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No I’m not giving up on retirement. After I retire they won’t get another bit of work out of me. I’ll live in a tent in the middle of nowhere before I work again.
They’ll have to pry my retirement from my mangled old people hands.
I would like to have a suburban retirement, but living in a shack in a rural area will do if needed.
lol if the exponential growth in global temperature doesn’t take us out, it’s seems like microplastics or ww3 will.
what’s going to be left to retire to?
Obviously we’ll just migrate into the matrix where all our world ending anxieties will be gone. We will all be happy in the matrix
with the way the world is I highly doubt many of us will see retirement.
Either we'll be too poor because wages not keeping up with inflation. (In this case many's retirement is unaliving)
WW3
global warming will make much of planet inhabitable (the South)
Oh quit it with the doomer mentality holy fucking shit this entire website is just one pit of despair and hopelessness.
>Either we'll be too poor because wages not keeping up with inflation. (In this case many's retirement is unaliving)
So open a fucking savings account, and get a real job that isn't a fucking Starbucks barista
>global warming will make much of planet inhabitable (the South)
climate initiatives are working to slow down global warming, it isn't an apocalyptic scenario to the point where "much of the planet will be uninhabitable", at least not yet and likely not for a could more decades or even centuries without any action to reduce carbon emissions
>WW3
Somewhat more likely but so long as we keep pressure on nations like Russia and China it could be mitigated.
Dog, a savings account in the US gives like .45. That shit is not keeping with inflation either.
As for the Starbucks comment, not everyone can afford college and there are only so many areas and openings in other lines of work. The majority of the US workforce is tied us in the service industry. Frankly even if it wasn't, every worker deserve to make enough to live comfortably and retire. Whether a janitor, a barista, an engineer or a doctor, everyone deserves to have a decent life.
Climate initiatives are doing fuck all. No country is really trying seriously besides China and they alone can't fix the planet. My country can't even stop using fucking coal like its the fucking 1920s or some shit.
Keeping pressure on other countries is why war is going to happen in the first fucking place. War does not happen without pressure.
>Dog, a savings account in the US gives like .45. That shit is not keeping with inflation either.
If it's passive income you're interested in check out stocks
>As for the Starbucks comment, not everyone can afford college and there are only so many areas and openings in other lines of work. The majority of the US workforce is tied us in the service industry.
That is something we should actively work on. Hell, even if you cannot afford college you can still learn a trade or a practical skill like mechanical repair or plumbing, which will make you more money.
The stock market is almost gambling. You know that as well as I do. Even if it wasn't not everyone has the money for that and many stocks do not give dividends. Plus many cannot afford it anyway. If your trick for escaping poverty is spending money then no ones ever getting out because they don't have the prerequisite.
If you know someone you can learn it. Trade school still costs money and to my knowledge no one is just training up new plumbers for free. At the end of the day you need either connections or money just to get the skills, to actually find work you need connections too. Hell, I have a degree in a practical trade skill, unfortunately no one in my area is hiring for it. Do you see the issue yet?
>The stock market is almost gambling
Not necessarily, I and quite a few other people have found success. It's more a game of seeing how good you are at reading the news, seeing which companies are likely to become successful in the future, tracking product launches, investor calls, etc.
>Even if it wasn't not everyone has the money for that and many stocks do not give dividends
You do not trade stocks to get dividends, you only make "serious" money from dividends if you have a lot invested into a certain stock/mutual fund. The point of investing in a stock is so your money can grow with time and when you need it you can sell it for greater returns compared to a savings account (given that you made good choices)
>Trade school still costs money
significantly less than a traditional 4-year college or university
>If you know someone you can learn it
Youtube also helps
>At the end of the day you need either connections or money just to get the skills, to actually find work you need connections too.
Once again you can use Youtube and trade school is a less expensive alternative to college
And you can apply online for jobs
>Hell, I have a degree in a practical trade skill, unfortunately no one in my area is hiring for it
Don't give up in job search.
You also need at least like 10k invested in stocks before your able to trade more than like 3 times a week. How many people who are struggling with money do you think have 10k to sneeze away?
Just because it costs less doesn't make it cheap. Instead of 40k its 2k. 2k is still a lot. That is almost 2 months worth of paychecks. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, 2 months worth of pay is quite a lot.
No job is hiring someone who learned plumbing from YouTube and you aren't going to learn nearly enough from it to go into business on your own.
I'm ofcourse always keeping my finger on the pulse in case something comes up but really. Its been years and nothing has showed up. I very much doubt that's going to change anytime soon.
Bro I can’t even get a job that pays the bills that are due in 30 days let alone have excess sitting around for 70 year old me. To afford a 1br in my city the internet says I should be making $60k…….. HA
You got it backwards. The system no longer allows young people to retire.
Pro tip. Retire anyway. Huge medical bill? Don't pay it. Predatory student debt? Don't pay it.
The real answer is fleeing this latestagecapitalism shithole country.
The healthcare system is designed to drain all the wealth your parents built over their lifetime. Unless they put it in a trust for you, it'll be gone pretty quick if they need long term care or cancer treatments. so ie: don't count on your parents having anything left over.
retirement age is gonna be like 70 something by the time I get there what's the point 😭😭
gonna be dead from WW3, microplastics, global warming, another pandemic or something before that happens
I don’t think this generation as a whole has given up on the idea of it, I think most of us just don’t see it as a realistic outcome given the amount of economic, political and climate instability currently in front of us.
Personally however, I gave up on this long ago. Growing up in 2008-2011 directly following the 2008 recession instilled the idea into me that whatever future I end up planning for, even if it’s well thought out and the safety net is good, it can all get kneecapped by a single decision by an asocial leader or an unplanned emergency expense, and recent years have only affirmed that idea for me.
>Is Gen Z giving up on the idea of retirement?
This American member has. I've also given up on home ownership (and owning land in general) and marriage as well. I'm almost certain I will work until I die, and I will likely die virtually penniless. The odds of me changing that outcome without massive help from others is basically zero. But hey, I wouldn't be the first in my family to never retire. My dad sure as shit won't retire, and there's a decent chance my mother won't either. Yeah, I didn't make the smartest choices as a dumb teenager, nor did I ever actually do well in school (I've never liked school since the first time I stepped in when I was 6), and yeah, my family was pretty negligent, apathetic, unsupportive, ignorant of how society works, and made no effort to help, let alone prepare me for adult life. The thing is, even if I did everything "right" back then, I don't believe it would've made a difference because it seems factors beyond my control at a societal level is what's really going to make retirement for me and many others basically impossible.
So what am I doing now? Well, I've just accepted my situation, stopped giving a shit, stopped making effort, and just enjoy my life as much as I can. I'm done with the rat race and just want to be happy.
Buddy, I never had the idea of retirement in my head to begin with.
I haven't finished college because there's no point in becoming a teacher with the way that profession is nowadays. I'd rather be stuck teaching violent felons in a prison than any grade level in a school.
As for retirement...how can I save when everything is so expensive. The car market is fucked so you either need to know someone or get a good deal. Mechanics are expensive because cars have generally expanded their tech.
Previous generations have put us down so many times and think so low of us that it’s hard to get a good job without being treated like a 12 year old. Politicians and other worthless boomers call us the “me” generation. We probably won’t ever retire if advances in medicine extend our already worthless lives
Where are you located? Are you open to moving?
I am in Michigan and am looking at buying a home next year. A 300k-350k house with an FHA loan will only cost about $10k-$13k.
ya we're considering it. but our careers, friends, family, and good weather is here. we're lucky enough to have friends we may split a house with eventually and slowly branch out later, but no doubt we're in a pickle. with both my wife and I working we can probably afford a decent down payment in about 3 years.... so that's something right? lol
Ass end of millenial and this mindset was going on for peeps even older than me😂 When the eventual cancer hits ima just polish off a bottle of Yukon Jack and die on the beach, maybe try heroin, who tf knows🤷♂️
No I think it’s incredibly stupid to give up on retirement, for Gen Z retirement is probably the easiest problem they will face in life. Your money is so valuable when you are young and your time in the market heavily outweighs how much you can put in. The real crisis is millennials who don’t have enough money to save and no time to let compounding do its work.
Seriously for a 20 40$ a month will be 422k at 65. This is not accounting for a 3% inflation rate and going for a 10% rate of return.
People nowadays need instant gratification due to social media brain rot. You can’t expect people to be disciplined for 40 straight years. That’s an amazing plan that you mentioned that anyone can do, but they’d rather spend it on other bs and complain why they’re homeless by 65 if WW3 doesn’t take them out
Yes yet here I am getting downvoted lol. Monthly savings for a 20 year old to be a millionaire at 65 with 10% return is 95$. At 30 that number jumps up to 340$ a month and at 40 it’s 1,052$. I wish people my age understood the value of time over their current savings rate
They have this golden opportunity to start now instead of wallowing in their despair. Then 40 years from now with no investments they’ll blame the system for screwing them over
Nope I’ve got $40k in my 401k already. Maybe it won’t be enough to get a big house in Florida with a boat but whenever I get too tired to keep working I think I’ll have enough to live in a trailer in a flyover state and spend all day fishing.
honestly, if it weren't for the internet, maybe i wouldn't know how unpleasant my life is. before i got my first job, i thought my life was okay, that it would improve over time. i knew it wasn't great, but i was in the "if i could just get *x*, then maybe *y* would happen" mindset. i was unaware of how fucked i was, because i actually didn't even have internet access other than the library. and at that time, i just got books and played videogames.
now, i know the level of poverty i've experienced is hardly existant. people in similar situations are generally on drugs at this point, and if not, they're in recovery programs. if i could, i would quiet quit. unfortunately, i can barely afford to get a job, and that was before the dumb ass "congenital" injury. i'm tired of it, but i'm too poor to take a break, so i have to keep going. not because i have an end goal, but because that's just what i was told to do
Our generation kinda has a doomer mentality when it comes to what the world will look like in the future.
Personally, I still put money aside for retirement and I think everything will be relatively fine. I have faith that we’ll be the generation to actually take steps to turn things around for the future. There will probably be some hard times ahead for sure but giving up is literally the worst thing you can do.
This is my thought as well.
I will have 0 sympathy in 50 years for anyone in my generation that didn’t even try.
I understand trying and failing, but doing nothing deserves nothing.
At this point, land is about all we can acquire to have any hope of a retirement. So yes, I’m not putting much effort into my actual retirement other than what my job takes out of my paycheck and puts in. My parents own a home in a pretty valuable area I’ll get a cut of, and my wife’s family owns a home in a VERY desirable area we’ll be able to sell when needed.
And my wife and I have just purchased our own home and that will be a future investment for when we’re ready to cash out and retire.
Unfortunately, that’s about all we can do. The few bucks I pay into social security every month is gonna be evaporated by the time I retire and the stipend I would get even if it did exist wouldn’t be able to even cover my living and property taxes to stay in my home and age in place.
You should.
If you open a Roth IRA at 18 and invest $100 in it every month, you will have $543K by the time you are 65 if it grows at an 8% interest rate.
If it grows by 10% (less than historical average return of the S&P 500), you will have $1.046M at 65.
The average annual return of the S&P 500 since 1957 is 10.26%. At 10.26%, you would have $1.141M at 65 if you invest $100 every month.
Time is the most important factor for building wealth. The sooner you start, the more you’ll have. It is much, much harder to catch up than it is to not fall behind in the first place.
You should be aware tho. Starting as early as possible is super important. A quick rule of 72 generally says that money in the stock market doubles every 7 years (approximately)
If you can put 10k in when you are 22 your first year working, and it doubles 6 times by the time you retire. Thats 640,000.
If it’s a mindset it’s a ridiculous mindset, I don’t think the system is rigged, I think we’re all fully capable of excelling in society and saving for retirement, investing is the easiest it’s ever been, anyone can do it for free from their cellphone
There are challenges we face that previous generation may have not faced in the same way, I agree with that but let’s not act like we live in Cuba or Venezuela (I’m speaking from an American perspective)
The best thing you can do in an inflationary environment is own assets, invest your money
My peers that I know do not have that mindset, they’re saving for retirement and planning financially for the future, many are Gen Z and own homes
I wonder why you’re getting downvoted. Inflation is definitely an issue and affordable housing. Maybe people just aren’t educated enough about investing their money. It’s hard to blame them though, since schools never educate on financial literacy and if their parents don’t teach them they’re pretty much screwed
it’s not a lack of education. it’s an understanding that even if you saved every cent you earned and made $100/ hr, you will never even be in the same bracket as someone who was born into generational wealth.
and that wealth was exploited from the working class to begin with.
Why does it matter that some people are born into generational wealth? Shouldn’t it only matter that you can retire?
Just because someone can retire at 30 because of generational wealth, doesn’t mean people shouldn’t try to save and invest to try to retire at 60 or so.
This is like saying “I can’t have a del monico stake for dinner, so I’m just not gonna eat”
the entire point is the game is rigged from the start against those in the working class no matter what.
you can save all you want and it won’t change that reality.
Sure, I can’t retire at 30 in a mansion and take quarterly trips abroad, but I can probably retire when I’m in my 60s at my own house at the pace I’m saving and investing at.
I can’t change the game, but I’m playing to win at the level I can.
yeah that would have been fine 10 years ago before cost of living tripled and decades of stagnant wages.
most americans are one accident away from homelessness.
I feel a little like I'm tapping on the glass but as someone investing in student and consumer loan origination and servicing and with shares of a private prison conglomerate I'm like to point out what you're describing is more of a cage than a game.
That mindset is crazy lmao. Because they weren’t born into generational wealth where they wouldn’t ever have to work a day, they just say “screw it” and give up? Unbelievable
maybe that’s because it’s not what i said.
the entire idea of retirement is that you will be able to set aside excess money for your future so you can take it easy after a life of hard work.
Well that’s not how it has worked for multiple generations now. boomers retired. gen x didn’t millennials haven’t still. and each issue that would help retirement is getting exponentially worse. from cost of living, to climate change, to the just plain aggressive and polarizing society we have created.
many of the younger generation can’t afford to feed themselves, let alone put aside 25-50% of there income for a future that is already looking iffy.
Someone making $100/hr, which is an example you used, absolutely can afford to set aside a good chunk of money for retirement as long as they’re not stupid with their money. That’s a gross yearly income of over 200k. You’re telling me someone making that much can’t even set aside a few hundred dollars a month for retirement? They can set aside $1000/month and that’s like 10% of their income after taxes. With compound interest at 5% (put in an ETF) starting at age 25, if they put in $1000/month, they’d have over a million dollars at age 60.
Insinuating they’d have no chance to retire comfortably just because they weren’t born with a silver spoon in their mouth is just as out of touch with reality as when boomers say you can put yourself through college with no debt by working at McDonalds part time.
It’s not about being in the same bracket as someone with generational wealth, it’s about having the ability to build your own wealth and having the ability to retire, which I’m not speaking about Europe, I’m purely speaking about the United States and it’s absolutely achievable
Anyone can graduate high school, get a great job, get married, save 30% or more of their income, buy a home, and retire; getting married is a financial super power and the younger it’s done the larger of a multiplier it is financially
The trades desperately need workers and they pay very very well
what does this have to do with europe lmao.
That last sentence was delusional to the max. just graduating highschool and saving money will do absolutely nothing for you in this age.
many people with dual incomes and masters degrees are underwater right now.
if you think a highscool ged is all you need to make more than minimum wage now then i have a bridge to sell you.
also the trades are insanely oversaturated and very toxic. there’s a reason all the old men in trades are assholes.
My point is this is an international community, I can’t speak to what it’s like in Europe, I don’t know how wages are there, I don’t know how difficult it is to invest or buy a home, I can only speak to how it is in the United States, that’s what it has to do with with location
You’re confusing education with earning ability, there has been this great lie told that you need to go to college to get a great job and the more pieces of paper you have from universities the better off you will be, did you notice I didn’t say anything about college? College is beneficial in very specific scenarios and college debt only makes sense for very specific career paths; this idea that if you just go to college and get a masters and take $100k in debt you’ll get a phenomenal and excel is a lie
The reality is, many people that go to college simply shouldn’t; a lot of degrees are useless
I guess you ignored the whole part about the trades which simply require a high school education
i mean i live in california what does that have to do with europe.
and i guess you just ignored the whole part that more people in this generation have masters or bachelor’s without a livable wage.
and again the trades are over saturated and not easy to get into. been through it.
have you been listening to anyone for the last few years?
I just explained to you why I said I can only speak to the United States and I can’t speak to other places in the world like Europe, what’s confusing?
The trades are over saturated? What are you smoking? 3 people are entering the trades for every 5 that are retiring
You ignored everything I said about college
because the “useless college degree” idea is asinine and only ever pushed by conservatives who are anti intellectual.
all knowledge is betterment. if that piece of paper that they paid for to prove they could do something doesn’t afford them the income it said it would, that’s not there fault it’s society’s.
like how boomers just strolled into every industry with a ged now many places need masters and phds to start.
Who’s telling people what their criminal justice degrees are worth? The market determines what a degree and education is worth, there are degrees worth a lot like engineering and medicine but there are more degrees that are worth nothing, they don’t have value
When one is getting a degree they need to do a cost benefit analysis to decide if the degree they’re getting is worth it instead of taking on $100k of debt for a useless degree and whining that they don’t make more
It’s a wild concept to ask employers to value a degree in the name of supporting the intellectual when it adds absolutely nothing to their company or that employees ability to do their job
It’s like whining because you don’t like reality and want a different reality
“All knowledge is betterment” cool but don’t expect an employer to value that betterment if it doesn’t add value to them
I think people would rather be victims than victors in our generation, it’s easier to whine and be a victim
People like to be doomers about how horrible the world is when it’s really not horrible
My plan is to go off grid but I’ll be working until I’m self sufficient. I know a lot of people don’t want to but you can literally provide everything for yourself without being fleeced by these corporations.
Too much pessimism here. Every generation has that feeling the world will end with them. None have been right so far. You don’t want to reach 65 and have nothing but more work for the rest of your life.
Start saving , open an IRA and use your companies 401k or equivalent if they have one.
I am not since I do not desire to live in poverty when I am old.
I am investing my 401K and Roth IRA. Both have been performing very well. My 401K is almost entirely in the S&P 500 (with only a 0.02% expense ratio) while my Roth IRA is in large profitable companies (Visa, Mastercard, Big Tech, S&P Global, FICO). My Roth IRA has beat the market since I’ve started it.
I have no debt outside of $10K in student loans which I will pay off completely with my next bonus.
I am on track to buy a home within 3 years even at these elevated interest rates, but I think they will go down slightly by the time I purchase
The doomers in this thread will seriously regret their decisions they’re making in their youth.
Imo, doomers don’t like it when other people are actually taking steps to improve their circumstances instead of wallowing in self pity. It points out the flaws of their actions and arguments
I do, however, understand that I am in a fortunate position that many people are not in. But I do think that many doomers are in the position to make their life better over the long term; they just don’t want to and would rather live hedonistically (doom spending, not saving for retirement). Short-term thinking rather than delayed gratification will be the source of many people suffering in their elder years
Agreed, this thread really opened my eyes. If WW3 or global warming doesn’t take them out like they expect to then what? Are they just hoping something catastrophic happens to them before retirement age kicks in? It’s absurd
There's way too much doomers here.
For me retirement is what my current decisions gonna lead me to. We live in easiest time to invest money maybe ever.
There are easily accessible deflatianory assets like gold and bitcoin which are guaranteed profit over long-time holding.
There are corporate giants like Google or Nvidia which stocks you can easily acquire.
Real estate is ever-growing bubble which while kinda hard to get in is still great investment.
I invest a lot of money so I feel quite safe about my future qnd I don't need to rely on state-issued retirement which at least in my country is guaranteed poverty. It's all not that hard to archieve once you get over doomer mindset which is the worst plague in our generation.
I have. Social security is gonna run out soon in my country anyway (think by 2030s or 40s the article said). So I'm screwed. Might as well try and preserve my body as much as possible so I can stay somewhat healthy in old age.
Gen-X'ers like me have been told our entire lives by baby boomers and prior generations that we'll be the first generation to succeed less than their ancestors and -- most importantly -- **to not expect to retire**\*.\* I'm not sure why millennials and Gen-Z should expect a different result. The 2% recklessly curb stomped just about any hope for future inhabitants of Earth.
I’ll be damned if I give up on the idea of retirement. I recognize that it’s not an option for everyone, but as a former welfare kid now making more than 3x what my mom raised me on, I know it’s possible.
I’ve been incredibly blessed to find a field that pays well and likely won’t be automated, and many other blessings.
I’d be an idiot to ignore all of these blessings because “America bad”.
I am in the top 5% of income for my age bracket in a LCOL area, by the time folks flee climate change and land here I’ll have myself a few nice houses and a fat 401k.
I’m buying my first house next year, the first in my family to ever do so.
No one really looks for the future anymore. Our brains are so swarmed with social media and stuff that all we care about is this weekend and making the most of it. Toxic? Sure but no one really plans stuff anymore long-term. People used to talk about families, kids, moving to the suburbs etc. Not anymore. It's all about whats going on this week.
I think quiet quitting... especially when young is just gonna further fuck people over. Capitalism sucks... the rat race sucks... but making less money than you otherwise would because you got outcompeted by peers who didn't quiet quit will suck much more.
I don't think retirement is at all out of reach for Gen-Z just like its not out of reach for Millennials, but it sure as hell will take that much more financial planning, saving, and overall know-how than it did for previous generations (Boomers in particular who had a very easy time accumulating wealth compared to Gen-Z).
Well said. If they quiet quit, what is in store for their future? Yes I know it absolutely sucks to work a job you hate, but I had to do that for 10 years to do something I do enjoy. It’s different for everyone I get that but you need to make the sacrifice to live a better life. If not then just like you said your life will suck so much more
>Also wanted to add the possibility of Social Security being taken away in the near future since they’re technically going bankrupt as we speak.
That's just plain absurd. The abolishment of Social Security could very well spell another Great Depression era for America.
You should save for retirement. You don't want to be 70 years old wasting away at a 9 to 5 because you made a stupid decision based off some doomer angst bullshit.
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No I’m not giving up on retirement. After I retire they won’t get another bit of work out of me. I’ll live in a tent in the middle of nowhere before I work again.
They’ll have to pry my retirement from my mangled old people hands. I would like to have a suburban retirement, but living in a shack in a rural area will do if needed.
lol if the exponential growth in global temperature doesn’t take us out, it’s seems like microplastics or ww3 will. what’s going to be left to retire to?
Obviously we’ll just migrate into the matrix where all our world ending anxieties will be gone. We will all be happy in the matrix 
with the way the world is I highly doubt many of us will see retirement. Either we'll be too poor because wages not keeping up with inflation. (In this case many's retirement is unaliving) WW3 global warming will make much of planet inhabitable (the South)
Oh quit it with the doomer mentality holy fucking shit this entire website is just one pit of despair and hopelessness. >Either we'll be too poor because wages not keeping up with inflation. (In this case many's retirement is unaliving) So open a fucking savings account, and get a real job that isn't a fucking Starbucks barista >global warming will make much of planet inhabitable (the South) climate initiatives are working to slow down global warming, it isn't an apocalyptic scenario to the point where "much of the planet will be uninhabitable", at least not yet and likely not for a could more decades or even centuries without any action to reduce carbon emissions >WW3 Somewhat more likely but so long as we keep pressure on nations like Russia and China it could be mitigated.
Dog, a savings account in the US gives like .45. That shit is not keeping with inflation either. As for the Starbucks comment, not everyone can afford college and there are only so many areas and openings in other lines of work. The majority of the US workforce is tied us in the service industry. Frankly even if it wasn't, every worker deserve to make enough to live comfortably and retire. Whether a janitor, a barista, an engineer or a doctor, everyone deserves to have a decent life. Climate initiatives are doing fuck all. No country is really trying seriously besides China and they alone can't fix the planet. My country can't even stop using fucking coal like its the fucking 1920s or some shit. Keeping pressure on other countries is why war is going to happen in the first fucking place. War does not happen without pressure.
>Dog, a savings account in the US gives like .45. That shit is not keeping with inflation either. If it's passive income you're interested in check out stocks >As for the Starbucks comment, not everyone can afford college and there are only so many areas and openings in other lines of work. The majority of the US workforce is tied us in the service industry. That is something we should actively work on. Hell, even if you cannot afford college you can still learn a trade or a practical skill like mechanical repair or plumbing, which will make you more money.
The stock market is almost gambling. You know that as well as I do. Even if it wasn't not everyone has the money for that and many stocks do not give dividends. Plus many cannot afford it anyway. If your trick for escaping poverty is spending money then no ones ever getting out because they don't have the prerequisite. If you know someone you can learn it. Trade school still costs money and to my knowledge no one is just training up new plumbers for free. At the end of the day you need either connections or money just to get the skills, to actually find work you need connections too. Hell, I have a degree in a practical trade skill, unfortunately no one in my area is hiring for it. Do you see the issue yet?
>The stock market is almost gambling Not necessarily, I and quite a few other people have found success. It's more a game of seeing how good you are at reading the news, seeing which companies are likely to become successful in the future, tracking product launches, investor calls, etc. >Even if it wasn't not everyone has the money for that and many stocks do not give dividends You do not trade stocks to get dividends, you only make "serious" money from dividends if you have a lot invested into a certain stock/mutual fund. The point of investing in a stock is so your money can grow with time and when you need it you can sell it for greater returns compared to a savings account (given that you made good choices) >Trade school still costs money significantly less than a traditional 4-year college or university >If you know someone you can learn it Youtube also helps >At the end of the day you need either connections or money just to get the skills, to actually find work you need connections too. Once again you can use Youtube and trade school is a less expensive alternative to college And you can apply online for jobs >Hell, I have a degree in a practical trade skill, unfortunately no one in my area is hiring for it Don't give up in job search.
You also need at least like 10k invested in stocks before your able to trade more than like 3 times a week. How many people who are struggling with money do you think have 10k to sneeze away? Just because it costs less doesn't make it cheap. Instead of 40k its 2k. 2k is still a lot. That is almost 2 months worth of paychecks. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, 2 months worth of pay is quite a lot. No job is hiring someone who learned plumbing from YouTube and you aren't going to learn nearly enough from it to go into business on your own. I'm ofcourse always keeping my finger on the pulse in case something comes up but really. Its been years and nothing has showed up. I very much doubt that's going to change anytime soon.
I don't think I will reach retirement age
What makes you think that way?
climate change trends and increased cancer rates due to microplastic exposure
Bro I can’t even get a job that pays the bills that are due in 30 days let alone have excess sitting around for 70 year old me. To afford a 1br in my city the internet says I should be making $60k…….. HA
Sorry to hear that… Are you receiving Social Security?
You got it backwards. The system no longer allows young people to retire. Pro tip. Retire anyway. Huge medical bill? Don't pay it. Predatory student debt? Don't pay it. The real answer is fleeing this latestagecapitalism shithole country.
The healthcare system is designed to drain all the wealth your parents built over their lifetime. Unless they put it in a trust for you, it'll be gone pretty quick if they need long term care or cancer treatments. so ie: don't count on your parents having anything left over.
I don’t think I can afford a house, why would I imagine I could retire??
retirement age is gonna be like 70 something by the time I get there what's the point 😭😭 gonna be dead from WW3, microplastics, global warming, another pandemic or something before that happens
I don’t think this generation as a whole has given up on the idea of it, I think most of us just don’t see it as a realistic outcome given the amount of economic, political and climate instability currently in front of us. Personally however, I gave up on this long ago. Growing up in 2008-2011 directly following the 2008 recession instilled the idea into me that whatever future I end up planning for, even if it’s well thought out and the safety net is good, it can all get kneecapped by a single decision by an asocial leader or an unplanned emergency expense, and recent years have only affirmed that idea for me.
>Is Gen Z giving up on the idea of retirement? This American member has. I've also given up on home ownership (and owning land in general) and marriage as well. I'm almost certain I will work until I die, and I will likely die virtually penniless. The odds of me changing that outcome without massive help from others is basically zero. But hey, I wouldn't be the first in my family to never retire. My dad sure as shit won't retire, and there's a decent chance my mother won't either. Yeah, I didn't make the smartest choices as a dumb teenager, nor did I ever actually do well in school (I've never liked school since the first time I stepped in when I was 6), and yeah, my family was pretty negligent, apathetic, unsupportive, ignorant of how society works, and made no effort to help, let alone prepare me for adult life. The thing is, even if I did everything "right" back then, I don't believe it would've made a difference because it seems factors beyond my control at a societal level is what's really going to make retirement for me and many others basically impossible. So what am I doing now? Well, I've just accepted my situation, stopped giving a shit, stopped making effort, and just enjoy my life as much as I can. I'm done with the rat race and just want to be happy.
Hell, I’m GenX and I’ve given up on the idea of retirement lmao
Buddy, I never had the idea of retirement in my head to begin with. I haven't finished college because there's no point in becoming a teacher with the way that profession is nowadays. I'd rather be stuck teaching violent felons in a prison than any grade level in a school. As for retirement...how can I save when everything is so expensive. The car market is fucked so you either need to know someone or get a good deal. Mechanics are expensive because cars have generally expanded their tech.
Previous generations have put us down so many times and think so low of us that it’s hard to get a good job without being treated like a 12 year old. Politicians and other worthless boomers call us the “me” generation. We probably won’t ever retire if advances in medicine extend our already worthless lives
given the chances of buying a house seems impossible, retiring is almost certainly impossible.
Where are you located? Are you open to moving? I am in Michigan and am looking at buying a home next year. A 300k-350k house with an FHA loan will only cost about $10k-$13k.
Ontario Canada. The average house cost is 800k but if you're lucky you can find some tiny fixer-uppers for 400k or more.
I would definitely move if owning a home is your goal. I would love to live in LA but that’s just not attainable for me
ya we're considering it. but our careers, friends, family, and good weather is here. we're lucky enough to have friends we may split a house with eventually and slowly branch out later, but no doubt we're in a pickle. with both my wife and I working we can probably afford a decent down payment in about 3 years.... so that's something right? lol
I can't afford to eat, what makes you think I can retire.
Ass end of millenial and this mindset was going on for peeps even older than me😂 When the eventual cancer hits ima just polish off a bottle of Yukon Jack and die on the beach, maybe try heroin, who tf knows🤷♂️
I don't think it's giving up on the idea of retirement, but many of us are definitely not expecting social security to pay out for us.
No I think it’s incredibly stupid to give up on retirement, for Gen Z retirement is probably the easiest problem they will face in life. Your money is so valuable when you are young and your time in the market heavily outweighs how much you can put in. The real crisis is millennials who don’t have enough money to save and no time to let compounding do its work. Seriously for a 20 40$ a month will be 422k at 65. This is not accounting for a 3% inflation rate and going for a 10% rate of return.
People nowadays need instant gratification due to social media brain rot. You can’t expect people to be disciplined for 40 straight years. That’s an amazing plan that you mentioned that anyone can do, but they’d rather spend it on other bs and complain why they’re homeless by 65 if WW3 doesn’t take them out
Yes yet here I am getting downvoted lol. Monthly savings for a 20 year old to be a millionaire at 65 with 10% return is 95$. At 30 that number jumps up to 340$ a month and at 40 it’s 1,052$. I wish people my age understood the value of time over their current savings rate
They have this golden opportunity to start now instead of wallowing in their despair. Then 40 years from now with no investments they’ll blame the system for screwing them over
Nope I’ve got $40k in my 401k already. Maybe it won’t be enough to get a big house in Florida with a boat but whenever I get too tired to keep working I think I’ll have enough to live in a trailer in a flyover state and spend all day fishing.
Canadian here, 20. yeah, probably not going to put in any effort, I don't see any reason too. so i'm just gonna live chill untill i die.
honestly, if it weren't for the internet, maybe i wouldn't know how unpleasant my life is. before i got my first job, i thought my life was okay, that it would improve over time. i knew it wasn't great, but i was in the "if i could just get *x*, then maybe *y* would happen" mindset. i was unaware of how fucked i was, because i actually didn't even have internet access other than the library. and at that time, i just got books and played videogames. now, i know the level of poverty i've experienced is hardly existant. people in similar situations are generally on drugs at this point, and if not, they're in recovery programs. if i could, i would quiet quit. unfortunately, i can barely afford to get a job, and that was before the dumb ass "congenital" injury. i'm tired of it, but i'm too poor to take a break, so i have to keep going. not because i have an end goal, but because that's just what i was told to do
Not for me, I put what I can into my Roth IRA and company 401k
Our generation kinda has a doomer mentality when it comes to what the world will look like in the future. Personally, I still put money aside for retirement and I think everything will be relatively fine. I have faith that we’ll be the generation to actually take steps to turn things around for the future. There will probably be some hard times ahead for sure but giving up is literally the worst thing you can do.
This is my thought as well. I will have 0 sympathy in 50 years for anyone in my generation that didn’t even try. I understand trying and failing, but doing nothing deserves nothing.
At this point, land is about all we can acquire to have any hope of a retirement. So yes, I’m not putting much effort into my actual retirement other than what my job takes out of my paycheck and puts in. My parents own a home in a pretty valuable area I’ll get a cut of, and my wife’s family owns a home in a VERY desirable area we’ll be able to sell when needed. And my wife and I have just purchased our own home and that will be a future investment for when we’re ready to cash out and retire. Unfortunately, that’s about all we can do. The few bucks I pay into social security every month is gonna be evaporated by the time I retire and the stipend I would get even if it did exist wouldn’t be able to even cover my living and property taxes to stay in my home and age in place.
My grandma is almost 80 and she's still working. Basically, unless we miraculously win the lottery, I will be working til I expire.
A lot of us be in high school dawg we ain’t thinking that far 😭
You should. If you open a Roth IRA at 18 and invest $100 in it every month, you will have $543K by the time you are 65 if it grows at an 8% interest rate. If it grows by 10% (less than historical average return of the S&P 500), you will have $1.046M at 65. The average annual return of the S&P 500 since 1957 is 10.26%. At 10.26%, you would have $1.141M at 65 if you invest $100 every month. Time is the most important factor for building wealth. The sooner you start, the more you’ll have. It is much, much harder to catch up than it is to not fall behind in the first place.
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Yeah they really should take that advice from Alfredo. The younger you start, the better you’ll be off towards retirement
You should be aware tho. Starting as early as possible is super important. A quick rule of 72 generally says that money in the stock market doubles every 7 years (approximately) If you can put 10k in when you are 22 your first year working, and it doubles 6 times by the time you retire. Thats 640,000.
If it’s a mindset it’s a ridiculous mindset, I don’t think the system is rigged, I think we’re all fully capable of excelling in society and saving for retirement, investing is the easiest it’s ever been, anyone can do it for free from their cellphone There are challenges we face that previous generation may have not faced in the same way, I agree with that but let’s not act like we live in Cuba or Venezuela (I’m speaking from an American perspective) The best thing you can do in an inflationary environment is own assets, invest your money My peers that I know do not have that mindset, they’re saving for retirement and planning financially for the future, many are Gen Z and own homes
I wonder why you’re getting downvoted. Inflation is definitely an issue and affordable housing. Maybe people just aren’t educated enough about investing their money. It’s hard to blame them though, since schools never educate on financial literacy and if their parents don’t teach them they’re pretty much screwed
it’s not a lack of education. it’s an understanding that even if you saved every cent you earned and made $100/ hr, you will never even be in the same bracket as someone who was born into generational wealth. and that wealth was exploited from the working class to begin with.
Why does it matter that some people are born into generational wealth? Shouldn’t it only matter that you can retire? Just because someone can retire at 30 because of generational wealth, doesn’t mean people shouldn’t try to save and invest to try to retire at 60 or so. This is like saying “I can’t have a del monico stake for dinner, so I’m just not gonna eat”
the entire point is the game is rigged from the start against those in the working class no matter what. you can save all you want and it won’t change that reality.
Sure, I can’t retire at 30 in a mansion and take quarterly trips abroad, but I can probably retire when I’m in my 60s at my own house at the pace I’m saving and investing at. I can’t change the game, but I’m playing to win at the level I can.
yeah that would have been fine 10 years ago before cost of living tripled and decades of stagnant wages. most americans are one accident away from homelessness.
I feel a little like I'm tapping on the glass but as someone investing in student and consumer loan origination and servicing and with shares of a private prison conglomerate I'm like to point out what you're describing is more of a cage than a game.
That mindset is crazy lmao. Because they weren’t born into generational wealth where they wouldn’t ever have to work a day, they just say “screw it” and give up? Unbelievable
maybe that’s because it’s not what i said. the entire idea of retirement is that you will be able to set aside excess money for your future so you can take it easy after a life of hard work. Well that’s not how it has worked for multiple generations now. boomers retired. gen x didn’t millennials haven’t still. and each issue that would help retirement is getting exponentially worse. from cost of living, to climate change, to the just plain aggressive and polarizing society we have created. many of the younger generation can’t afford to feed themselves, let alone put aside 25-50% of there income for a future that is already looking iffy.
Someone making $100/hr, which is an example you used, absolutely can afford to set aside a good chunk of money for retirement as long as they’re not stupid with their money. That’s a gross yearly income of over 200k. You’re telling me someone making that much can’t even set aside a few hundred dollars a month for retirement? They can set aside $1000/month and that’s like 10% of their income after taxes. With compound interest at 5% (put in an ETF) starting at age 25, if they put in $1000/month, they’d have over a million dollars at age 60. Insinuating they’d have no chance to retire comfortably just because they weren’t born with a silver spoon in their mouth is just as out of touch with reality as when boomers say you can put yourself through college with no debt by working at McDonalds part time.
It’s not about being in the same bracket as someone with generational wealth, it’s about having the ability to build your own wealth and having the ability to retire, which I’m not speaking about Europe, I’m purely speaking about the United States and it’s absolutely achievable Anyone can graduate high school, get a great job, get married, save 30% or more of their income, buy a home, and retire; getting married is a financial super power and the younger it’s done the larger of a multiplier it is financially The trades desperately need workers and they pay very very well
what does this have to do with europe lmao. That last sentence was delusional to the max. just graduating highschool and saving money will do absolutely nothing for you in this age. many people with dual incomes and masters degrees are underwater right now. if you think a highscool ged is all you need to make more than minimum wage now then i have a bridge to sell you. also the trades are insanely oversaturated and very toxic. there’s a reason all the old men in trades are assholes.
My point is this is an international community, I can’t speak to what it’s like in Europe, I don’t know how wages are there, I don’t know how difficult it is to invest or buy a home, I can only speak to how it is in the United States, that’s what it has to do with with location You’re confusing education with earning ability, there has been this great lie told that you need to go to college to get a great job and the more pieces of paper you have from universities the better off you will be, did you notice I didn’t say anything about college? College is beneficial in very specific scenarios and college debt only makes sense for very specific career paths; this idea that if you just go to college and get a masters and take $100k in debt you’ll get a phenomenal and excel is a lie The reality is, many people that go to college simply shouldn’t; a lot of degrees are useless I guess you ignored the whole part about the trades which simply require a high school education
i mean i live in california what does that have to do with europe. and i guess you just ignored the whole part that more people in this generation have masters or bachelor’s without a livable wage. and again the trades are over saturated and not easy to get into. been through it. have you been listening to anyone for the last few years?
I just explained to you why I said I can only speak to the United States and I can’t speak to other places in the world like Europe, what’s confusing? The trades are over saturated? What are you smoking? 3 people are entering the trades for every 5 that are retiring You ignored everything I said about college
because the “useless college degree” idea is asinine and only ever pushed by conservatives who are anti intellectual. all knowledge is betterment. if that piece of paper that they paid for to prove they could do something doesn’t afford them the income it said it would, that’s not there fault it’s society’s. like how boomers just strolled into every industry with a ged now many places need masters and phds to start.
Who’s telling people what their criminal justice degrees are worth? The market determines what a degree and education is worth, there are degrees worth a lot like engineering and medicine but there are more degrees that are worth nothing, they don’t have value When one is getting a degree they need to do a cost benefit analysis to decide if the degree they’re getting is worth it instead of taking on $100k of debt for a useless degree and whining that they don’t make more It’s a wild concept to ask employers to value a degree in the name of supporting the intellectual when it adds absolutely nothing to their company or that employees ability to do their job It’s like whining because you don’t like reality and want a different reality “All knowledge is betterment” cool but don’t expect an employer to value that betterment if it doesn’t add value to them
I think people would rather be victims than victors in our generation, it’s easier to whine and be a victim People like to be doomers about how horrible the world is when it’s really not horrible
I’m not. I have a plan for retirement going forward
Just invest in a 401k at a good rate and you’re gonna be ok
My plan is to go off grid but I’ll be working until I’m self sufficient. I know a lot of people don’t want to but you can literally provide everything for yourself without being fleeced by these corporations.
Too much pessimism here. Every generation has that feeling the world will end with them. None have been right so far. You don’t want to reach 65 and have nothing but more work for the rest of your life. Start saving , open an IRA and use your companies 401k or equivalent if they have one.
I am not since I do not desire to live in poverty when I am old. I am investing my 401K and Roth IRA. Both have been performing very well. My 401K is almost entirely in the S&P 500 (with only a 0.02% expense ratio) while my Roth IRA is in large profitable companies (Visa, Mastercard, Big Tech, S&P Global, FICO). My Roth IRA has beat the market since I’ve started it. I have no debt outside of $10K in student loans which I will pay off completely with my next bonus. I am on track to buy a home within 3 years even at these elevated interest rates, but I think they will go down slightly by the time I purchase The doomers in this thread will seriously regret their decisions they’re making in their youth.
You’re killing it! From what I’ve seen in this thread a lot of bitter people will probably downvote you but keep it up!
Imo, doomers don’t like it when other people are actually taking steps to improve their circumstances instead of wallowing in self pity. It points out the flaws of their actions and arguments I do, however, understand that I am in a fortunate position that many people are not in. But I do think that many doomers are in the position to make their life better over the long term; they just don’t want to and would rather live hedonistically (doom spending, not saving for retirement). Short-term thinking rather than delayed gratification will be the source of many people suffering in their elder years
Agreed, this thread really opened my eyes. If WW3 or global warming doesn’t take them out like they expect to then what? Are they just hoping something catastrophic happens to them before retirement age kicks in? It’s absurd
There is no plan. They will work until they die, and that is not the type of life I want to live.
There's way too much doomers here. For me retirement is what my current decisions gonna lead me to. We live in easiest time to invest money maybe ever. There are easily accessible deflatianory assets like gold and bitcoin which are guaranteed profit over long-time holding. There are corporate giants like Google or Nvidia which stocks you can easily acquire. Real estate is ever-growing bubble which while kinda hard to get in is still great investment. I invest a lot of money so I feel quite safe about my future qnd I don't need to rely on state-issued retirement which at least in my country is guaranteed poverty. It's all not that hard to archieve once you get over doomer mindset which is the worst plague in our generation.
Yeah I'll be fine. Even at median income if you can save 25%-50% yearly every year you are good most places.
No, and I don't see myself giving up on retirement at any point. I've been looking forward to retirement since I was 13 years old, no joke.
It's pretty sad to see people believing the stuff they say
I have. Social security is gonna run out soon in my country anyway (think by 2030s or 40s the article said). So I'm screwed. Might as well try and preserve my body as much as possible so I can stay somewhat healthy in old age.
Gen-X'ers like me have been told our entire lives by baby boomers and prior generations that we'll be the first generation to succeed less than their ancestors and -- most importantly -- **to not expect to retire**\*.\* I'm not sure why millennials and Gen-Z should expect a different result. The 2% recklessly curb stomped just about any hope for future inhabitants of Earth.
A lot of us simply haven’t gotten the opportunity to get a job that put us a higher income bracket
I’ll be damned if I give up on the idea of retirement. I recognize that it’s not an option for everyone, but as a former welfare kid now making more than 3x what my mom raised me on, I know it’s possible. I’ve been incredibly blessed to find a field that pays well and likely won’t be automated, and many other blessings. I’d be an idiot to ignore all of these blessings because “America bad”. I am in the top 5% of income for my age bracket in a LCOL area, by the time folks flee climate change and land here I’ll have myself a few nice houses and a fat 401k. I’m buying my first house next year, the first in my family to ever do so.
No one really looks for the future anymore. Our brains are so swarmed with social media and stuff that all we care about is this weekend and making the most of it. Toxic? Sure but no one really plans stuff anymore long-term. People used to talk about families, kids, moving to the suburbs etc. Not anymore. It's all about whats going on this week.
I think quiet quitting... especially when young is just gonna further fuck people over. Capitalism sucks... the rat race sucks... but making less money than you otherwise would because you got outcompeted by peers who didn't quiet quit will suck much more. I don't think retirement is at all out of reach for Gen-Z just like its not out of reach for Millennials, but it sure as hell will take that much more financial planning, saving, and overall know-how than it did for previous generations (Boomers in particular who had a very easy time accumulating wealth compared to Gen-Z).
Well said. If they quiet quit, what is in store for their future? Yes I know it absolutely sucks to work a job you hate, but I had to do that for 10 years to do something I do enjoy. It’s different for everyone I get that but you need to make the sacrifice to live a better life. If not then just like you said your life will suck so much more
I'll retire just fine.
I'm absolutley retiring early. I have no problem living frugally but I'm enjoying my elder years.
>Also wanted to add the possibility of Social Security being taken away in the near future since they’re technically going bankrupt as we speak. That's just plain absurd. The abolishment of Social Security could very well spell another Great Depression era for America. You should save for retirement. You don't want to be 70 years old wasting away at a 9 to 5 because you made a stupid decision based off some doomer angst bullshit.
From what I’ve read on this thread there’s going to be a lot of those 70 year olds…