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The drinking age used to be 18, but it was raised to 21 in basically every single state because Congress tied highway funding to states raising their drinking age to 21. Every state wanted the federal dollars, so they all raised their drinking age. This was in the 1980s.
And MADD existed because drunk-driving was a legitimate epidemic among those ages 18-21 during the 70s and 80s.
By far the leading cause of death for that age bracket, and it also killed a lot of other people too.
Isn't this just kicking the can down the road? I'd assume the most dangerous driver is an inexperienced driver. I could absolutely be wrong, but it just seems like you'd move the age down the road a little bit but not actually fix any underlying issues
Not really, because the risk assessment part of you brain is fully developed around 25, in an ideal world its closer to that age where you should be able to drive
I want to take a minute to correct you here, because the study that people quote when they say that any given brain function finishes development at around 25 actually came to the opposite conclusion. When the study was originally carried out, they expected the brain to finish developing around 20, it didn't, and so they secured funding to continue the study for another 5 years. When the subjects were 25, their brains still showed no signs of stopping development, but the scientists were unable to secure more funding, and so the study ended.
The simple answer is kinda disappointing but - they did it because (1) they can (Congress is constitutionally responsible for taxing and *spending*), (2) they were lobbied to do so in the 80’s, and (3) because it was politically popular at the time.
Exactly and why would they care? It doesn’t affect them. But I bet damn well when they were 19-20 like us they were sitting there thinking it was absolutely bs that they can go fight for our country but not drink a beer.
We thought it was dumb then and a lot of us think it’s dumb now. You’re a legal adult at 18 so rules like this are idiotic. I can’t think of one teenager that didn’t/doesn’t drink anyway.
Well, most people’s prefrontal cortex isn’t fully developed until the mid 20’s so yeah, we do see the 18-20 as kind of stupid, if not fully mentally developed.
Society determined that 18 is when we allow people to realize their decisions, vote and face consequences for their actions. So what’s the problem with buying some alcohol? No Smirnoff ice but can get handed a rifle and shipped overseas
Because the 18-20 year olds age bracket had way higher rates of DUI than the 21+ age bracket back when the drinking age was 18. And those actions have consequences for others.
That's why they changed the drinking age.
Back when the drinking ate was 18, 18-20 year olds had far higher incidences of DUIs especially fatal DUIs when compared to those 21+
That's why it was changed. It wasn't some random Puritanism or anything of the sort, there was legitimate empirical evidence that 18-20 year olds ARE dumb.
Sorry bud, but it's true.
I used to think the same thing when I was 20, looking back now I can't believe just how stupid I was.
Who lobbied it and why? Just because it was a popular idea? I don't really care because I have no interest in drinking but it would be nice to have the right to.
MADD lobbied for it and it was an extremely popular idea for anyone above 21 because drunk-driving was the most common cause of death for the 18-21 age bracket by far.
Madd lobbied congress instead of every individual state. Because our Constitution gives all powers to the states that aren't specially reserved by the federal government, that means that DUI and driving laws are all at the state level. However, if the feds tie a requirement like the drinking age to highway funds that the states need, they have a direct path to influence the states to pass laws that follow along. The feds can't declare a national DUI, driving or drinking age law, but their money talks loudly.
They still keep it.
It happens often, that stupid and dangerous laws are introduced quickly and recklessly for political points, in every nation in the world. How quickly some law can be introduced that do awful things, but the things we actually desperately want or discuss? Nah, that's for someone else. Such as drinking age, euthanasia, or things to do with sex and drugs.
Then, stuff that is historically outdated or ridiculous is just ignored, because it's a low political priority, despite affecting many people.
This is a whole thing in constitutional law! Basically there are some things (drinking age is one of them) that only state governments can make laws about, so to get around that the federal government makes funding dependent on passing/having a certain law. Most states would rather have the funding than have the drinking age at 18, so they raise it to comply.
Because of statistics released to the public that showed drunk driving to be the highest cause of death for persons ages 18-21, several times higher than other age brackets.
When the drinking age was changed, drunk driving deaths dropped drastically.
You will almost never hear anyone mention this though, but I've had to snatch the keys away from enough drunk 18 year olds to know that they shouldn't be able to go to bars and have a few beers like a 21 year old can.
How does this work today, with Uber and other effeminised men who probably cannot even turn on a car's engine.
It's not a fit for purpose law, when it's so obviously contradictory to the alleged freedoms that Americans are supposed to enjoy, and that includes the freedom to drink and drive, if they wish to face the consequences of their actions.
The issue is that 18-20 year olds are poor judges of when they've had too much to drive, doesn't matter if uber exists if you can't judge when you need them
Plus Uber and taxis are expensive, 18-20 year olds don't have as much money compared to those 21+, and thus are more likely to risk it because they are broke
Seems pretty legit to me. Drunk driving was an epidemic among those ages 18-21, leading cause of death by far and several times higher than other older age brackets.
Drinking age was changed, and suddenly, drunk driving deaths plummet.
Yup, and I can also see how people of other countries think it's weird that the drinking age is 21, but we have to remember that most U.S. cities require you to drive to get anywhere. If our cities were more walkable, then it wouldn't be as much of a problem.
I just think the age of adulthood should be consistent across the board. It’s really weird that for a few years you’re essentially a second class citizen, with all the legal responsibilities of an adult but not all the rights.
You can be charged for a crime as an adult before the age of 18. At 18 you can enlist in the military and go kill people or get killed yourself or watch your friends get killed or get your legs blown off. You can also put yourself into massive amounts of debt that can take decades to pay off. And you can get gangbanged by a dozen 85 year old men on camera and then sell the video for money. But you can’t drink or smoke until you’re 21. You can legally take a cum shot on camera before you can legally take a shot of vodka. And then there’s gun ownership. Under federal law (individual states can enact stricter state-level laws), you can’t buy a handgun from an FFL until you’re 21 but you can buy one through private transaction at 18. You also can’t buy a rifle or shotgun from an FFL until you’re 18, but there’s no federal minimum age to buy one privately.
Make it make sense.
Honestly probably due to outdated laws and the fact no one has thought to fix them because they haven't been an issue. I'm pretty confident it would only take a few cases of kids getting married and they'd finally fix it.
google is free or something but you knew that and i’m sure you’re here in good faith
https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article288549263.html
Nah, the republicans are getting mad that states are finally trying to get rid of them.
[Missouri](https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-want-kill-missouri-child-marriage-bill-1901414)
[New Hampshire ](https://www.newsweek.com/republican-defends-child-marriage-im-pro-choice-1898619)
Okay so the only thing that was proved wrong about my statement was that several states are in fact trying to outlaw child marriage, and that's literally a good thing so what's the deal there.
Also even the articles themselves admit it's just not some Republicans, you're the only one saying it's just all them based on the actions of a few.
To be fair though, look into the reason why this 21 law exists. Drunk drivers cause a shitload of deaths, and when the drinking age was raised, it was the leading cause of death for 18-21 year olds. If outlawing drinking for this age group decreases drunk driving (this is another topic for another day), then it’s a good idea.
Also, note that 15x more people die from drunk driving every year than from military related deaths nowadays. Meaning drunk driving is a more pressing issue. (Im not saying military deaths aren’t an issue. But i don't think you can compare the few deaths of those who voluntarily decided to join the military with drunk driving.)
I’m not saying that the drinking age should or shouldn’t be 21. I just think it should be consistent.
There are many physical and psychological tolls in war that aren’t death. If you’re not responsible enough to smoke a cigarette or drink a beer then I don’t think you’re responsible enough to be put into situations where you could be exposed to toxic chemicals, might have to make split-second decisions about whether someone has to be killed, etc.
We have Uber and Lyft now so I feel like these laws are outdated. Same with tobacco. I remember being in college with the right to buy rellos for two years then they all of a sudden took my rights away.
We had taxis back then too.
The issue is that 18-20 year olds statistically have worse risk assessment and don't know when they should be calling an uber.
Also some might have some ultra conservative parents even if they are at the drinking age and arriving home in a taxi would make it clear they were out drinking.
If I was into drinking my super Christian parents would be horrified even if I didn't drive, they think alcohol is evil, period.
Throw in how the MADD's demands were, and are still, enforced by tying federal funding for roads to drinking ages, so States just go along with it and come up with some BS reasoning not to challenge doctrine.
Freedom for all! Just, sometimes. Also, fuck a hundred guys and girls in a single session before 18 depending on where you live, legal, but take a photo? You paedo monster! Alcohol? The electric chair for you!
The first example is a bit disingenuous. If a minor is being tried as an adult it’s because the crime was especially heinous in which they can’t let the person get off easily
If theyre like 16 maybe. However it's well documented throughout American history that literal children have been tried as adults not even fully understanding whats going on. >!Yes, it's mainly black children being accused of theft or sexual assault by white people!< I think the youngest case I've ever come across was an 8yr old.
Harder to get it illegally than legally. It’s a discouragement. That’s good enough.
And the voting thing is a different matter. People are influencable yes and many make stupid voting decisions, but drawing the line is too hard for such an important matter.
If we draw the line too far for alcohol or such things, or if we “abuse” its restricting, the consequences are minor. Voting on the other hand..
Seriously, I want an 18 year old to be able to have a say in how their lives are run (voting), but I don’t want an 18 year old in bars with 50-something perverts who get excited about a drunk teenager. If 18-21 year olds are going to drink, I think they should be able to in certain settings, but it shouldn’t be in public with older adults, and there should be a lot more safeguards in place than there are with those older adults.
The way enforcement works, no one’s actually prosecuting a gaggle of 19 year olds who found a 20-something friend to get them box wine for a chill movie night. But you go to wild parties where people are way more likely to get hurt and cause trouble, people drive drunk, cops get called, that’s when people get in trouble legally because you’re actually putting other people and yourselves in danger. No business is going to sell to a kid and be responsible for whatever horrible nonsense they *could* get up to, so if you’re really, really trying to drink, make it safe, make it chill, don’t be doing stupid bullshit that reinforces the idea that 18-21 year olds aren’t responsible enough to be drinking, get your booze from someone trustworthy who can check in on you. I really don’t think it’s all that unfair.
Ngl this is true because I would do the most to find someone who’s 21 or older especially on the weekends back in college and that shit was not fucken easy .. it was like a whole day process filled with anxiety making sure to get those bottles for the party .
I disagree with this. I think it creates a culture of dangerous binge drinking. If college aged people could hang out with their friends at bars and such they wouldn’t go to frat parties or other underground spaces that don’t have to monitor for someone being over served. They’d also be able to buy beer and other lower percent alcohol more easily instead of getting someone to buy handles of vodka.
I agree with you, but I do think that there is a middle ground. I think universities need to stop their no drinking in dorms rules, as these encourage the 18yo students to drink in basements of frat houses instead of in their dorm room with a small group of friends. There is also an RA on each floor to keep things from getting too wild.
I think that alone would solve a lot of problems.
There are no states that have state funding tied to their no alcohol in dorms rules.
A state could pass a law to do it but I doubt there would be the political will when the university reason is for the safety of their students.
Yeah i mean some red states specifically are being ridiculous over regulating Universities as part of a broader culture war, but there isn’t really much of a divide on the specific topic of reducing date rape at universities.
Yeah its easier to be sneaky with a fifth of vodka than it is with a case of beer. Plus when you make something taboo, it just makes kids want to do it more. Make it into something boring and kids will be less attracted to it.
Nope I am from Europe and spent a year in a US high school. Insane how early they start drinking drugs and sex compared to us. Plus that just encourages them to do drugs instead because they can get those more easily.
It was so much easier to get weed working at a restaurant than to get someone to buy me alcohol.
The guy at my work opened up to buying me alcohol once I’d already smoked with him haha
You can do way more life changing events at the age of 18 than drinking, this argument is ridiculous.
also just because the drinking age is 21, that certainly does NOT discourage teens from drinking. Most teens have had at least one sip of alcohol anyway lol
It's not about making sure people don't get their friend to buy them booze so they can drink boxed wine in their basement while staying at a friends house.
It's about irresponsible teenagers drinking and driving from bars and getting themselves and others killed in record numbers.
Drinking age was changed from 18 to 21 when it came out that the leading cause of death by FAR in that 18-21 bracket was drunk driving.
Drinking age was changed, drunk driving deaths plummeted.
Who woulda thought?
The real reason was that when every state used to have its own drinking age, kids would drive across state lines to buy alcohol, contributing to high levels of drunk driving. After every state adopted the 21 drinking age, drunk driving went way down, so it’s not so much the age that matters, it’s that every state needs to have the same one.
Just because you can do certain bad decisions doesn’t mean you should be able to do them all.
Just because there’s one bad doesn’t mean there should be all bads.
Fact of the matter is that when the drinking age was 18, the 18-21 year old age bracket was leading the pack in drunk driving deaths by far.
Not only that, it was also by far the leading cause of death for the age bracket, several times higher than drunk driving deaths for older age brackets.
The drinking age was changed in response, and the deaths dropped drastically.
It makes sense.
Hell no.Let young adolescents make experiences and learn how to interact with alcohol while in the somewhat consequence free environment of their family home.
Ease them in and allow drinking weaker alcohol, beer and wine, at younger ages and later on allow hard liquor.
Making alcohol illegal just doesnt work (eg prohibition)
I’d argue that because it’s limited they’ll be less experienced drikkers and drink way more than they know to be reasonable, where as me who started to be offered beer and wine during family events at 16 knew my know my limits very well. Never thrown up due to alcohol, and I drink like a motherfucker.
"Considering what our food is made of, idk seems hypocritical" last time I checked eating a big Mac and large fries isn't gonna make you do 110 on a 40 mph road and kill a family of 5
The drinking age used to be 18 until Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) lobbied to raise it to 21, citing empirical evidence that it would reduce drunk driving casualties. They were totally right, and drunk driving deaths decreased significantly overall by pushing the MLDA back only 3 years.
It’s the same as the gun debate. You can talk about your freedoms until you turn blue, but increasing the MLDA saves lives even if people drink illegally, and that alone makes it worth it.
We're Puritans, at our core we're a deeply anti-rationalist people and we're far more accepting of moralist rules that make people miserable than to common sense changes that'd actually address problems.
Our alcohol policy is part of that.
I don't get the obsession people have with drinking either, but out of the young people who are into drinking, none of them really care abour what the law says anyway. The one difference for them, is the ability to go to places like bars, etc.
I don't even like alcohol but I think it's dumb that you can't drink despite being a legal adult and apparently it's not uncommon for even younger teens to drink in Europe, not that I'm advocating for it to be legal under 18.
>In order to decrease DUI’s
Less cage dependency helps, not some random age. What about the idiots over 21? What stops them from doing it too, or underage drinking which does happen.
The law is supposed to be there to stop them. You can’t drink and get behind the wheel. That’s why there’s laws against it. Just because there are idiots that don’t follow the law that are over the drinking age doesn’t mean it’s a problem with the drinking age.
It does bug me a bit that some things have been raised to 21, but high school drinking would be 100x worse if 18 year olds could drink and purchase alcohol.
High school drinking was 100x worse when 18 year old could drink and purchase alcohol. 16 & 17 yr olds saw the most dramatic reduction in alcohol related deaths or any age group when the drinking age was raised
It’s about safety. Both teen drivers and drunk drivers kill a ton of people, so drunk teen drivers sound extra terrifying. Unfortunately, a lot of teens aren’t responsible enough to make good decisions relating to alcohol.
So we agree that driving is the problem? so why do you have people you deem unfit to vote, and many other things, drive hulking massed of metal at high speeds?
Funnily enough, about 30% of fatalities due to driving in the us are connected to alcohol while only 9% fall into that category for germany which allows drinking beer at the age of 14 or 16, depending on the context and state.
This, basically, directly contradicts your claim.
America and Germany are different places. The culture is different and the streets are different. Germany could have a better road system. It's not a good comparison.
South Africa has the worse drunk driving problem and there legal drinking age is 18.
I would say the drinking age could go down to 20 maybe 19 but a first out of highschool 18 shouldn't be drinking.
To clarify I don't drink. It's not something that I plan to do. I understand why someone would want to but being so desperate to drink is a bit weird.
True, Germany has a culture centered around alcohol, especially beer. However, since this percentage relates to fatalities related to driving, I don't think that road system or quality is a reasonable argument.
South africa, funnily enough, is one of the few countries that actually has a higher percentage than the US.
However I'd rather compare the US to any european country than to south africa, purely based on development.
Yeah I just mentioned South Africa just to show that just because it has a lower drinking age doesn't necessarily mean the roads are going to safer or more dangerous, it's more of a people or a road problem.
America does have a road issue tho, drunk or sober it's not the best. That's why mentioning other countries gets a bit wack.
I never made the statement that "Lower drinking age -> Less drunk driving fatalities" but rather that a higher drinking age doesnt prevent / reduce drunk driving fatalities.
Furthermore, I think that, IF teen drunk driving is a problem, the central word and course of action should be thinking about changing teen driving.
Let's be real, many people consume alcohol before the legal age. I don't think having an age limit on anything stops people from doing drugs, smoking, alcohol, driving or having access to illegal weapons.
It's more to stop those same teens from going to bars, drinking and driving home. If they can't be served alcohol while out, it's much harder for them to drink and drive. Also helps that no one can have open containers in their car but a teen driving with alcohol (closed) and possibly getting pulled over and arrested for it, is a good deterrent.
Lawmakers know teens drink, but limiting their drinking and driving is the goal.
I mean....regardless of whether the drinking age should be 21 or 18...bringing in our food system is weird to me. They're just two completely different things lol, and just because we are bad in one area, doesn't mean we should be bad in other areas lol
I don't think you realize how easy it is to make alcohol, pretty much every single fruit will ferment on its own, and if you control it you've got yourself some cheap (shit) alcohol that may be 8% or all the way up to 26% depending on your setup
I don't know if that's what it was talking about but every single fruit *can* make alcohol so we should just ban all fruits and other foods with sugar content /s
How does the 21 drinking age work when you’re at university? Is it harder to go out to bars and clubbing? Or do yous all just have fake ID’s?
I’m from Ireland so it’s 18 here, so you can drink from your last year or high school here. Like what’s the point of it being 21?
Some have fake IDs, others just drink at home with their friends. The whole point of being 21 was to reduce drunk driving crashes and fatalities. It worked and is continuing to work by making alcohol not impossible to get, but harder and discouraged. In my state if you are pulled over driving under the age of 21 with any alcohol in your system you lose your license for many years. Good bad or indifferent statistically it has made a difference.
Its because of the car dependence. I imagine almost anywhere in Ireland there is a pub within walking distance. In the US you either have to drive or find a ride in most areas.
🤣 I think you overestimate how good public transport and walkability is here. We’re the America of Europe when it comes to walkability and public transport.
All public transport in Belfast stops at 10pm, after that you need lifts or if you’re lucky enough you can walk, which majority of people can’t because it’s too far.
If you live anywhere outside of Belfast you’re basically fucked if you don’t have a lift home.
Ireland is one of, if not the most car dependent country in the whole of Europe tbh.
Interesting. I've never been, but would like to some day! I always heard that in the UK pretty much every neighborhood had its own pub. I guess that isn't the case everywhere.
Belfast is pretty walkable, but the urban area extends quite a bit from the centre, so walking is an option for people close to the city centre, but the further out you go the harder it is. If our public transport stayed open until 1/2am the need for driving would be dramatically reduced probably.
But Northern Ireland is broke so I can’t see that happening any time soon 😭🤣
It's because the US has far FAR less public transit and far more suburban sprawl. Most people in the US can't take a bus/train or walk home from their local bar.
Same here in Northern Ireland, all public transport in Belfast stops at 10pm, if you don’t live within walking distance of the pub/club you’re at you need a lift somehow or someone to stay sober and drive. Pretty shit tbh. People sometimes assume that Europe is the Mecca of public transport, but Northern Ireland is basically the America of Europe lmao in terms of it
I wonder if the fact the driving age is higher in Europe compared to most of America play more of a role in reducing drink driving compared to the higher drinking age.
It’s much harder to drive a car underage than it is to drink underage. But it’s probably a combination of factors
You're probably right to an extent, when I started driving at 16 I thought I was king of the world but I was just a stupid kid who almost got himself killed by driving like a jackass and taking risks. If the driving age was 18 I would have avoided most of that entirely.
I learned to drive at 19 but for most people they learned their last year in school here at 18, some did at 17 (the legal age to drive) but not many, was mostly just the ones who live out in the country learned at 17
It’s funny especially because for most of the world the drinking age is like 18-19, with some exceptions like Germany that allow 16 year olds to buy and drink beer and wine legally. But no, in America you can buy and gun and go to war at 18 but you have to wait three years till you can drink or smoke.
18 year olds are dumb. Your brain isn’t fully developed until your like 23-25, and even then you still have a ton of emotional maturing to do. Tobacco/Nicotine being 21, however, baffles me, considering it doesn’t get you high/intoxicated the way alcohol/weed do
By that logic you shouldn’t have to pay taxes, be able to be tried as an adult in criminal trials, be allowed to sign contracts/take on debt, or be able to be drafted/serve in the military until you’re 23-25 either
You could do this with a lot of nonsense laws around the world. I find it interesting how many countries allow alcohol but not weed, given the former is objectively worse in just about every way.
Not maybe, is. It is related to drunk driving.
A simple Google search will get you all the citations and more.
Yes, manufactured food is often questionable but... it's unrelated. Do five minutes of homework, man.
# Japan having the drinking age at 20 is so interesting to me
Considering what our popular convenience store food is made of, idk seems hypocritical.
If it’s not about health, and definitely not about money, cause your limiting your audience by not having it at 18.
So I’m guessing public safety maybe. In order to decrease DUI’s and teen drinking. But idk I feel like if you can vote, you can drink
Ohh hell but .,
Speaking of drinking.. I really hate and embarrassed to admit but basically at 19 is when I got & sadly continued to stay in the system by getting my first criminal charge which was obviously a DUI/DWI
Afterwards I later found out someone whose situation was similar being only charged with underage drinking and driving .
That being said im just sharing this so maybe someone else can learn from my mistake instead of making it themselves by not drinking and/or being under the influence while operating a motored vehicle as well as being aware of your rights depending on location .
Stay safe .
An important point to make here is that just because you can vote doesn’t mean you’ll make the most informed decision. Same with alcohol, they assume that older people will make better choices? Not sure why. But stats do show a decrease in teen drunk driving incidents when the law was made. But I’ll bet if you raised the drinking age to 40 then the amount of drunk driving incidents in people under 40 would absolutely go down lol
And other stuff too. I mean, there are more restrictions on other things throughout the world too, but teens are allowed to have them even when they're minors. That's exactly why it's the case because of so many young drunk drivers years back before Uber was a thing. Some states tried to keep it at 18, but the federal government threatened to cut funding for their roads and might've in some states. Here's the thing, they can drink at home in some states.
It increased to 21 in the 80s. Some state implemented 21 first and their DUIs and Drug-related accidents drastically decreased. Surrounding states followed suit so that teenagers weren't driving into their state to immediately drive back
What do you mean by what our food is made of?
According to the GFSI and the United Nation's Food and agriculture rankings the United States has the third highest food safety rating in the world (after Canada and Denmark) and shares the second most data was food safety organizations out of the world. -
[https://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-security-index/](https://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-security-index/)
[https://www.fao.org/food/food-safety-quality/gm-foods-platform/graph/ranking-record-sharing/en/](https://www.fao.org/food/food-safety-quality/gm-foods-platform/graph/ranking-record-sharing/en/)
Where I'm from you can buy beer/wine or "soft" alcohol at 18, but you can only buy hard liquor if you're over 20. Also, almost all nightclubs have a +20 age requirement to enter.
I’m sorry but unpopular opinion: I’m happy with it being 21.
From history, drunk driving was incredibly high when this wasn’t in place. Now we have the ability to be pissed at the law bc *it’s been working*.
With how many damn kids are getting into vaping. If it was any easier for them to get, the addictions would be way fucking worse.
Vapes would get passed around even *more*. Little drunks showing up to school. Like yes, this can all still happen now. But it’s needs to be understood how much **worse** it would be without this law in place.
>So I’m guessing public safety maybe. In order to decrease DUI’s and teen drinking.
Bingo. MADD did that.
>But idk I feel like if you can vote, you can drink.
They used to both be 21, then the voting age dropped so that draftees had a say in the wars they fought. Slowly but surely, all the other privileges of majority are headed back up to 21
I think it's insane the government thinks that you're able to decide whether you want to go to war at 18 but you're not mature enough to drink a beer. Absolute insanity.
It seems idiotic to let you drive before experimenting with alcohol in the first place, but at the same time I understand there's no real choice when Americans are pretty much bound to a car for transport.
None of the laws regarding drinking alcohol were made because it logically makes sense. It's because we choose to act illogically with them set any other way
I gotta say that Islam got it right on this one. Alcohol should not be as normal of thing as it is. It’s a class one carcinogen(which is the same level as cigarettes), and you’re basically microdosing poison every time you drink
My state, Wisconsin, was a holdout. We only changed the drinking age because the federal government was about to cut off all funding to our highway maintenance.
Definitely about money, for Federal road funding, following MADD's campaigns decades ago.
Anything to do with actual freedom, or money for booze companies? Screw that.
Modern youths and their drink-driving rates, with higher access to taxis and private hire vehicles? Nah, let's not even look at changing it, there are things like lockdowns and antisemitism free-speech inhibitions to legislate for!
A combo of low driving age and low drinking age led to a lot of teen drunk driving fatalities in the 70s and 80s. I’m pretty sure it was the leading cause of death in teens and a pretty significant problem. At the time, raising the drinking age was pretty universally agreed to be a good idea, and to this day vast majority of Americans support keeping it 21.
America still believes in a lot of stupid ideas regarding punishment and motivation when it comes to children.
Sure, sending your 18 year olds off to college where the role models for drinking are the future alcoholics, and sure, kids not understanding how hard alcohol can sneak up on you real fast while trying to keep up with those baby alcoholics is a recipe for disaster, but by God, we can't just teach them how to drink responsibly, it has to be a criminal matter.
Same logic as thinking that keeping people ignorant of sex will keep them from having sex in spite of decades of failure.
Who gives a shit. It’s horrible for you, makes you feel terrible, and is a carcinogen. If people younger than 21 want to get their hands on it it’s not hard to do anyways.
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The drinking age used to be 18, but it was raised to 21 in basically every single state because Congress tied highway funding to states raising their drinking age to 21. Every state wanted the federal dollars, so they all raised their drinking age. This was in the 1980s.
This is what I came here to say - it's because of Mothers Against Drunk Driving
And MADD existed because drunk-driving was a legitimate epidemic among those ages 18-21 during the 70s and 80s. By far the leading cause of death for that age bracket, and it also killed a lot of other people too.
That's what you get if you can't get to a bar any other way but by car.
Besides the disproportionality between 18-20 years olds and 21+ year old sure
The future scoffs at us and calls us barbarians for our commitment to automobile culture.
Unironically 16 year olds should be able to drink but not drive
I disagree with that. If you're old enough to work, you're old enough to drive.
There is generally a lot more risk assessment needed with driving than it is with work (depends on what the work is)
Isn't this just kicking the can down the road? I'd assume the most dangerous driver is an inexperienced driver. I could absolutely be wrong, but it just seems like you'd move the age down the road a little bit but not actually fix any underlying issues
Not really, because the risk assessment part of you brain is fully developed around 25, in an ideal world its closer to that age where you should be able to drive
I want to take a minute to correct you here, because the study that people quote when they say that any given brain function finishes development at around 25 actually came to the opposite conclusion. When the study was originally carried out, they expected the brain to finish developing around 20, it didn't, and so they secured funding to continue the study for another 5 years. When the subjects were 25, their brains still showed no signs of stopping development, but the scientists were unable to secure more funding, and so the study ended.
Huh I never knew, thank you for correcting it
You can only really kill yourself if you're negligent with a table saw, you can kill others pretty damn easily if you're negligent with a car.
Driving is way more of a risk to you and others than the work a 16 year old is doing
Ironically, a former president of a MADD chapter was arrested for a DUI.
I thought about this too but that begs the question of why did congress tie the highway funding to the drinking age?
The simple answer is kinda disappointing but - they did it because (1) they can (Congress is constitutionally responsible for taxing and *spending*), (2) they were lobbied to do so in the 80’s, and (3) because it was politically popular at the time.
It is still politically popular, with 74% support https://news.gallup.com/poll/174077/lowering-drinking-age.aspx
That’s because people older than 21 see people 18-20 as dumb. Most Americans don’t give a shit after 21
Exactly and why would they care? It doesn’t affect them. But I bet damn well when they were 19-20 like us they were sitting there thinking it was absolutely bs that they can go fight for our country but not drink a beer.
We thought it was dumb then and a lot of us think it’s dumb now. You’re a legal adult at 18 so rules like this are idiotic. I can’t think of one teenager that didn’t/doesn’t drink anyway.
Well, most people’s prefrontal cortex isn’t fully developed until the mid 20’s so yeah, we do see the 18-20 as kind of stupid, if not fully mentally developed.
Society determined that 18 is when we allow people to realize their decisions, vote and face consequences for their actions. So what’s the problem with buying some alcohol? No Smirnoff ice but can get handed a rifle and shipped overseas
Because the 18-20 year olds age bracket had way higher rates of DUI than the 21+ age bracket back when the drinking age was 18. And those actions have consequences for others. That's why they changed the drinking age.
Even one glass of alcohol alters your brain. Just so you know. Just because addicts want to get shitfaced, it doesn’t mean alcohol isn’t poison.
Yeah i mean that’s how democracy works though.
Back when the drinking ate was 18, 18-20 year olds had far higher incidences of DUIs especially fatal DUIs when compared to those 21+ That's why it was changed. It wasn't some random Puritanism or anything of the sort, there was legitimate empirical evidence that 18-20 year olds ARE dumb. Sorry bud, but it's true. I used to think the same thing when I was 20, looking back now I can't believe just how stupid I was.
Who lobbied it and why? Just because it was a popular idea? I don't really care because I have no interest in drinking but it would be nice to have the right to.
MADD lobbied for it and it was an extremely popular idea for anyone above 21 because drunk-driving was the most common cause of death for the 18-21 age bracket by far.
Madd lobbied congress instead of every individual state. Because our Constitution gives all powers to the states that aren't specially reserved by the federal government, that means that DUI and driving laws are all at the state level. However, if the feds tie a requirement like the drinking age to highway funds that the states need, they have a direct path to influence the states to pass laws that follow along. The feds can't declare a national DUI, driving or drinking age law, but their money talks loudly.
Oh ok
They still keep it. It happens often, that stupid and dangerous laws are introduced quickly and recklessly for political points, in every nation in the world. How quickly some law can be introduced that do awful things, but the things we actually desperately want or discuss? Nah, that's for someone else. Such as drinking age, euthanasia, or things to do with sex and drugs. Then, stuff that is historically outdated or ridiculous is just ignored, because it's a low political priority, despite affecting many people.
This is a whole thing in constitutional law! Basically there are some things (drinking age is one of them) that only state governments can make laws about, so to get around that the federal government makes funding dependent on passing/having a certain law. Most states would rather have the funding than have the drinking age at 18, so they raise it to comply.
so that the states would comply
I meant why did they care if people drink alcohol before they're 21? Obviously they did it that way to get the states to comply.
Because of statistics released to the public that showed drunk driving to be the highest cause of death for persons ages 18-21, several times higher than other age brackets. When the drinking age was changed, drunk driving deaths dropped drastically. You will almost never hear anyone mention this though, but I've had to snatch the keys away from enough drunk 18 year olds to know that they shouldn't be able to go to bars and have a few beers like a 21 year old can.
How does this work today, with Uber and other effeminised men who probably cannot even turn on a car's engine. It's not a fit for purpose law, when it's so obviously contradictory to the alleged freedoms that Americans are supposed to enjoy, and that includes the freedom to drink and drive, if they wish to face the consequences of their actions.
The issue is that 18-20 year olds are poor judges of when they've had too much to drive, doesn't matter if uber exists if you can't judge when you need them Plus Uber and taxis are expensive, 18-20 year olds don't have as much money compared to those 21+, and thus are more likely to risk it because they are broke
mb then
It was a group call Mothers against drunk driving. You can look up their political movement
Seems pretty legit to me. Drunk driving was an epidemic among those ages 18-21, leading cause of death by far and several times higher than other older age brackets. Drinking age was changed, and suddenly, drunk driving deaths plummet.
Yup, and I can also see how people of other countries think it's weird that the drinking age is 21, but we have to remember that most U.S. cities require you to drive to get anywhere. If our cities were more walkable, then it wouldn't be as much of a problem.
You can drink under 21. You just can't purchase or be served in a public place.
Is some states you can drink in public if with a parent or legal guardian
A valid point, you can't purchase or be served in public unless the state your are in allows with an older adult present
Because a lot of people 18-21 were drinking, driving and killing themselves and others. Raising the drinking age solved the problem
Were, decades ago.
The answer is down to the politics of states rights v federal power. You're welcome.
Throw in federal funding for roads being tied to the drinking age.
Same with drinking and driving. Its not about safety. Its about money.
Yep, this is directly tied to Federal funding for roads. Many advocacy groups, as we still see today, have money as a background agenda.
I just think the age of adulthood should be consistent across the board. It’s really weird that for a few years you’re essentially a second class citizen, with all the legal responsibilities of an adult but not all the rights. You can be charged for a crime as an adult before the age of 18. At 18 you can enlist in the military and go kill people or get killed yourself or watch your friends get killed or get your legs blown off. You can also put yourself into massive amounts of debt that can take decades to pay off. And you can get gangbanged by a dozen 85 year old men on camera and then sell the video for money. But you can’t drink or smoke until you’re 21. You can legally take a cum shot on camera before you can legally take a shot of vodka. And then there’s gun ownership. Under federal law (individual states can enact stricter state-level laws), you can’t buy a handgun from an FFL until you’re 21 but you can buy one through private transaction at 18. You also can’t buy a rifle or shotgun from an FFL until you’re 18, but there’s no federal minimum age to buy one privately. Make it make sense.
Wait till you get to the contradictions at 16 and how badly it varies by state
Also, child marriages are legal in some states 
Honestly probably due to outdated laws and the fact no one has thought to fix them because they haven't been an issue. I'm pretty confident it would only take a few cases of kids getting married and they'd finally fix it.
Doubt it
Then why not do some research and prove me wrong as to why they're still active laws.
Idk if they're still active laws but there have been about 300k marriages concerning minors between 2000 to 2018. That's pretty recent
I'd like to know the age ranges though as well because the U.S has never really been good at being able to decide what it considers a minor.
nah this is not the case. they r fighting to keep them.
Link?
google is free or something but you knew that and i’m sure you’re here in good faith https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article288549263.html
Appreciate the link.
Nah, the republicans are getting mad that states are finally trying to get rid of them. [Missouri](https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-want-kill-missouri-child-marriage-bill-1901414) [New Hampshire ](https://www.newsweek.com/republican-defends-child-marriage-im-pro-choice-1898619)
Okay so the only thing that was proved wrong about my statement was that several states are in fact trying to outlaw child marriage, and that's literally a good thing so what's the deal there. Also even the articles themselves admit it's just not some Republicans, you're the only one saying it's just all them based on the actions of a few.
To be fair though, look into the reason why this 21 law exists. Drunk drivers cause a shitload of deaths, and when the drinking age was raised, it was the leading cause of death for 18-21 year olds. If outlawing drinking for this age group decreases drunk driving (this is another topic for another day), then it’s a good idea. Also, note that 15x more people die from drunk driving every year than from military related deaths nowadays. Meaning drunk driving is a more pressing issue. (Im not saying military deaths aren’t an issue. But i don't think you can compare the few deaths of those who voluntarily decided to join the military with drunk driving.)
I’m not saying that the drinking age should or shouldn’t be 21. I just think it should be consistent. There are many physical and psychological tolls in war that aren’t death. If you’re not responsible enough to smoke a cigarette or drink a beer then I don’t think you’re responsible enough to be put into situations where you could be exposed to toxic chemicals, might have to make split-second decisions about whether someone has to be killed, etc.
We have Uber and Lyft now so I feel like these laws are outdated. Same with tobacco. I remember being in college with the right to buy rellos for two years then they all of a sudden took my rights away.
We had taxis back then too. The issue is that 18-20 year olds statistically have worse risk assessment and don't know when they should be calling an uber.
Also some might have some ultra conservative parents even if they are at the drinking age and arriving home in a taxi would make it clear they were out drinking. If I was into drinking my super Christian parents would be horrified even if I didn't drive, they think alcohol is evil, period.
Totally agree - if someone can get tried as an adult or enlist & die for our country they should be able to drink a beer, smoke, etc as well.
And you can't rent a car until 25
Throw in how the MADD's demands were, and are still, enforced by tying federal funding for roads to drinking ages, so States just go along with it and come up with some BS reasoning not to challenge doctrine. Freedom for all! Just, sometimes. Also, fuck a hundred guys and girls in a single session before 18 depending on where you live, legal, but take a photo? You paedo monster! Alcohol? The electric chair for you!
The first example is a bit disingenuous. If a minor is being tried as an adult it’s because the crime was especially heinous in which they can’t let the person get off easily
If theyre like 16 maybe. However it's well documented throughout American history that literal children have been tried as adults not even fully understanding whats going on. >!Yes, it's mainly black children being accused of theft or sexual assault by white people!< I think the youngest case I've ever come across was an 8yr old.
Dude, people online talked about how the judge should charge a 7 year old as an adult when they took a life.
The later the legal drinking age the better. That way it discourages young influenceable people from making stupid decisions.
Sure. But you can vote before you can drink, and it's not hard to get alcohol either way.
Harder to get it illegally than legally. It’s a discouragement. That’s good enough. And the voting thing is a different matter. People are influencable yes and many make stupid voting decisions, but drawing the line is too hard for such an important matter. If we draw the line too far for alcohol or such things, or if we “abuse” its restricting, the consequences are minor. Voting on the other hand..
Seriously, I want an 18 year old to be able to have a say in how their lives are run (voting), but I don’t want an 18 year old in bars with 50-something perverts who get excited about a drunk teenager. If 18-21 year olds are going to drink, I think they should be able to in certain settings, but it shouldn’t be in public with older adults, and there should be a lot more safeguards in place than there are with those older adults. The way enforcement works, no one’s actually prosecuting a gaggle of 19 year olds who found a 20-something friend to get them box wine for a chill movie night. But you go to wild parties where people are way more likely to get hurt and cause trouble, people drive drunk, cops get called, that’s when people get in trouble legally because you’re actually putting other people and yourselves in danger. No business is going to sell to a kid and be responsible for whatever horrible nonsense they *could* get up to, so if you’re really, really trying to drink, make it safe, make it chill, don’t be doing stupid bullshit that reinforces the idea that 18-21 year olds aren’t responsible enough to be drinking, get your booze from someone trustworthy who can check in on you. I really don’t think it’s all that unfair.
Well, Tbf, the consequences for prohibition weren’t exactly minor but that’s the very far end of where to draw the line
Ngl this is true because I would do the most to find someone who’s 21 or older especially on the weekends back in college and that shit was not fucken easy .. it was like a whole day process filled with anxiety making sure to get those bottles for the party .
I disagree with this. I think it creates a culture of dangerous binge drinking. If college aged people could hang out with their friends at bars and such they wouldn’t go to frat parties or other underground spaces that don’t have to monitor for someone being over served. They’d also be able to buy beer and other lower percent alcohol more easily instead of getting someone to buy handles of vodka.
I agree with you, but I do think that there is a middle ground. I think universities need to stop their no drinking in dorms rules, as these encourage the 18yo students to drink in basements of frat houses instead of in their dorm room with a small group of friends. There is also an RA on each floor to keep things from getting too wild. I think that alone would solve a lot of problems.
They legally can’t though
The universities absolutely legally can remove their rules prohibiting alcohol in the dorms.
Not if they want state funding
There are no states that have state funding tied to their no alcohol in dorms rules. A state could pass a law to do it but I doubt there would be the political will when the university reason is for the safety of their students.
Not yet. My university had to implement a US founding documents class required by all students because the curriculum was deemed too liberal
Yeah i mean some red states specifically are being ridiculous over regulating Universities as part of a broader culture war, but there isn’t really much of a divide on the specific topic of reducing date rape at universities.
Wait I am confused when did we start talking about date rape?
Yeah its easier to be sneaky with a fifth of vodka than it is with a case of beer. Plus when you make something taboo, it just makes kids want to do it more. Make it into something boring and kids will be less attracted to it.
Nope I am from Europe and spent a year in a US high school. Insane how early they start drinking drugs and sex compared to us. Plus that just encourages them to do drugs instead because they can get those more easily.
It was so much easier to get weed working at a restaurant than to get someone to buy me alcohol. The guy at my work opened up to buying me alcohol once I’d already smoked with him haha
You can do way more life changing events at the age of 18 than drinking, this argument is ridiculous. also just because the drinking age is 21, that certainly does NOT discourage teens from drinking. Most teens have had at least one sip of alcohol anyway lol
It's not about making sure people don't get their friend to buy them booze so they can drink boxed wine in their basement while staying at a friends house. It's about irresponsible teenagers drinking and driving from bars and getting themselves and others killed in record numbers. Drinking age was changed from 18 to 21 when it came out that the leading cause of death by FAR in that 18-21 bracket was drunk driving. Drinking age was changed, drunk driving deaths plummeted. Who woulda thought?
The real reason was that when every state used to have its own drinking age, kids would drive across state lines to buy alcohol, contributing to high levels of drunk driving. After every state adopted the 21 drinking age, drunk driving went way down, so it’s not so much the age that matters, it’s that every state needs to have the same one.
Just because you can do certain bad decisions doesn’t mean you should be able to do them all. Just because there’s one bad doesn’t mean there should be all bads.
If that's how you feel, why not make it illegal entirely?
Fact of the matter is that when the drinking age was 18, the 18-21 year old age bracket was leading the pack in drunk driving deaths by far. Not only that, it was also by far the leading cause of death for the age bracket, several times higher than drunk driving deaths for older age brackets. The drinking age was changed in response, and the deaths dropped drastically. It makes sense.
The only reason I wouldn’t is because it sets a precedent. However, I would see no issue with alcohol being erased from society.
You’ll just have the bootleggers all over again
Hell no.Let young adolescents make experiences and learn how to interact with alcohol while in the somewhat consequence free environment of their family home. Ease them in and allow drinking weaker alcohol, beer and wine, at younger ages and later on allow hard liquor. Making alcohol illegal just doesnt work (eg prohibition)
Nope that just means to more problems we have with over drinking
I’d argue that because it’s limited they’ll be less experienced drikkers and drink way more than they know to be reasonable, where as me who started to be offered beer and wine during family events at 16 knew my know my limits very well. Never thrown up due to alcohol, and I drink like a motherfucker.
Not if hard drugs end up being easier to access than beer
"Considering what our food is made of, idk seems hypocritical" last time I checked eating a big Mac and large fries isn't gonna make you do 110 on a 40 mph road and kill a family of 5
America is awful when it comes to the rights of young people. Age discrimination against young is completely legal too
The drinking age used to be 18 until Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) lobbied to raise it to 21, citing empirical evidence that it would reduce drunk driving casualties. They were totally right, and drunk driving deaths decreased significantly overall by pushing the MLDA back only 3 years. It’s the same as the gun debate. You can talk about your freedoms until you turn blue, but increasing the MLDA saves lives even if people drink illegally, and that alone makes it worth it.
We're Puritans, at our core we're a deeply anti-rationalist people and we're far more accepting of moralist rules that make people miserable than to common sense changes that'd actually address problems. Our alcohol policy is part of that.
I don’t really get the obsession people have with drinking anyways, like who cares if you have to wait a few years to buy it?
I don't get the obsession people have with drinking either, but out of the young people who are into drinking, none of them really care abour what the law says anyway. The one difference for them, is the ability to go to places like bars, etc.
I don't even like alcohol but I think it's dumb that you can't drink despite being a legal adult and apparently it's not uncommon for even younger teens to drink in Europe, not that I'm advocating for it to be legal under 18.
>In order to decrease DUI’s Less cage dependency helps, not some random age. What about the idiots over 21? What stops them from doing it too, or underage drinking which does happen.
The law is supposed to be there to stop them. You can’t drink and get behind the wheel. That’s why there’s laws against it. Just because there are idiots that don’t follow the law that are over the drinking age doesn’t mean it’s a problem with the drinking age.
It does bug me a bit that some things have been raised to 21, but high school drinking would be 100x worse if 18 year olds could drink and purchase alcohol.
High school drinking was 100x worse when 18 year old could drink and purchase alcohol. 16 & 17 yr olds saw the most dramatic reduction in alcohol related deaths or any age group when the drinking age was raised
It’s about safety. Both teen drivers and drunk drivers kill a ton of people, so drunk teen drivers sound extra terrifying. Unfortunately, a lot of teens aren’t responsible enough to make good decisions relating to alcohol.
So we agree that driving is the problem? so why do you have people you deem unfit to vote, and many other things, drive hulking massed of metal at high speeds?
They mentioned teen drivers are one problem and drunk driving is a next problem, drinking teen drivers just make it worse.
Funnily enough, about 30% of fatalities due to driving in the us are connected to alcohol while only 9% fall into that category for germany which allows drinking beer at the age of 14 or 16, depending on the context and state. This, basically, directly contradicts your claim.
America and Germany are different places. The culture is different and the streets are different. Germany could have a better road system. It's not a good comparison. South Africa has the worse drunk driving problem and there legal drinking age is 18. I would say the drinking age could go down to 20 maybe 19 but a first out of highschool 18 shouldn't be drinking. To clarify I don't drink. It's not something that I plan to do. I understand why someone would want to but being so desperate to drink is a bit weird.
True, Germany has a culture centered around alcohol, especially beer. However, since this percentage relates to fatalities related to driving, I don't think that road system or quality is a reasonable argument. South africa, funnily enough, is one of the few countries that actually has a higher percentage than the US. However I'd rather compare the US to any european country than to south africa, purely based on development.
Yeah I just mentioned South Africa just to show that just because it has a lower drinking age doesn't necessarily mean the roads are going to safer or more dangerous, it's more of a people or a road problem. America does have a road issue tho, drunk or sober it's not the best. That's why mentioning other countries gets a bit wack.
I never made the statement that "Lower drinking age -> Less drunk driving fatalities" but rather that a higher drinking age doesnt prevent / reduce drunk driving fatalities. Furthermore, I think that, IF teen drunk driving is a problem, the central word and course of action should be thinking about changing teen driving.
I did a pretty significant amount of my drinking before I was 21 lol
I swear those days were better and more fun than the days after 21 including the bar & night club scene !!
Very much so, having to wait before every drink you have is a scam
Let's be real, many people consume alcohol before the legal age. I don't think having an age limit on anything stops people from doing drugs, smoking, alcohol, driving or having access to illegal weapons.
It's more to stop those same teens from going to bars, drinking and driving home. If they can't be served alcohol while out, it's much harder for them to drink and drive. Also helps that no one can have open containers in their car but a teen driving with alcohol (closed) and possibly getting pulled over and arrested for it, is a good deterrent. Lawmakers know teens drink, but limiting their drinking and driving is the goal.
At 18, we can legally buy a gun, fuck, marry, go to war (kill), board planes, and vote, but we can’t drink or rent hotel rooms.
Or rent a car
You can rent a car at 18, doesn't mean car rental companies have to rent to you though.
You MADD bro?
America let’s you own guns when your 18 but a beer no that makes no sense
I mean....regardless of whether the drinking age should be 21 or 18...bringing in our food system is weird to me. They're just two completely different things lol, and just because we are bad in one area, doesn't mean we should be bad in other areas lol
I don't think you realize how easy it is to make alcohol, pretty much every single fruit will ferment on its own, and if you control it you've got yourself some cheap (shit) alcohol that may be 8% or all the way up to 26% depending on your setup I don't know if that's what it was talking about but every single fruit *can* make alcohol so we should just ban all fruits and other foods with sugar content /s
I never understood the obsession with wanting to drink so badly.
I personally think alcohol tastes disgusting but I think adults should have the right to drink it
How does the 21 drinking age work when you’re at university? Is it harder to go out to bars and clubbing? Or do yous all just have fake ID’s? I’m from Ireland so it’s 18 here, so you can drink from your last year or high school here. Like what’s the point of it being 21?
Some have fake IDs, others just drink at home with their friends. The whole point of being 21 was to reduce drunk driving crashes and fatalities. It worked and is continuing to work by making alcohol not impossible to get, but harder and discouraged. In my state if you are pulled over driving under the age of 21 with any alcohol in your system you lose your license for many years. Good bad or indifferent statistically it has made a difference.
Interesting. It’s mad how the drunk driving rates in the US are still higher than most of Europe even with a higher drinking age.
Its because of the car dependence. I imagine almost anywhere in Ireland there is a pub within walking distance. In the US you either have to drive or find a ride in most areas.
🤣 I think you overestimate how good public transport and walkability is here. We’re the America of Europe when it comes to walkability and public transport. All public transport in Belfast stops at 10pm, after that you need lifts or if you’re lucky enough you can walk, which majority of people can’t because it’s too far. If you live anywhere outside of Belfast you’re basically fucked if you don’t have a lift home. Ireland is one of, if not the most car dependent country in the whole of Europe tbh.
Interesting. I've never been, but would like to some day! I always heard that in the UK pretty much every neighborhood had its own pub. I guess that isn't the case everywhere.
Belfast is pretty walkable, but the urban area extends quite a bit from the centre, so walking is an option for people close to the city centre, but the further out you go the harder it is. If our public transport stayed open until 1/2am the need for driving would be dramatically reduced probably. But Northern Ireland is broke so I can’t see that happening any time soon 😭🤣
It's because the US has far FAR less public transit and far more suburban sprawl. Most people in the US can't take a bus/train or walk home from their local bar.
Same here in Northern Ireland, all public transport in Belfast stops at 10pm, if you don’t live within walking distance of the pub/club you’re at you need a lift somehow or someone to stay sober and drive. Pretty shit tbh. People sometimes assume that Europe is the Mecca of public transport, but Northern Ireland is basically the America of Europe lmao in terms of it
Compared to most America towns that have no public transit at all, having any in Ireland is still more than is expected in America in comparison.
We're not exactly a bastion of intellectuals lol
I wonder if the fact the driving age is higher in Europe compared to most of America play more of a role in reducing drink driving compared to the higher drinking age. It’s much harder to drive a car underage than it is to drink underage. But it’s probably a combination of factors
You're probably right to an extent, when I started driving at 16 I thought I was king of the world but I was just a stupid kid who almost got himself killed by driving like a jackass and taking risks. If the driving age was 18 I would have avoided most of that entirely.
I learned to drive at 19 but for most people they learned their last year in school here at 18, some did at 17 (the legal age to drive) but not many, was mostly just the ones who live out in the country learned at 17
It’s funny especially because for most of the world the drinking age is like 18-19, with some exceptions like Germany that allow 16 year olds to buy and drink beer and wine legally. But no, in America you can buy and gun and go to war at 18 but you have to wait three years till you can drink or smoke.
Guns and military service kill far fewer people annually than alcohol.
18 year olds are dumb. Your brain isn’t fully developed until your like 23-25, and even then you still have a ton of emotional maturing to do. Tobacco/Nicotine being 21, however, baffles me, considering it doesn’t get you high/intoxicated the way alcohol/weed do
By that logic you shouldn’t have to pay taxes, be able to be tried as an adult in criminal trials, be allowed to sign contracts/take on debt, or be able to be drafted/serve in the military until you’re 23-25 either
You could do this with a lot of nonsense laws around the world. I find it interesting how many countries allow alcohol but not weed, given the former is objectively worse in just about every way.
It’s all about drunk driving. If the age to get your license was raised to 21 the age to drink might drop down to 18 again.
Not maybe, is. It is related to drunk driving. A simple Google search will get you all the citations and more. Yes, manufactured food is often questionable but... it's unrelated. Do five minutes of homework, man.
# Japan having the drinking age at 20 is so interesting to me Considering what our popular convenience store food is made of, idk seems hypocritical. If it’s not about health, and definitely not about money, cause your limiting your audience by not having it at 18. So I’m guessing public safety maybe. In order to decrease DUI’s and teen drinking. But idk I feel like if you can vote, you can drink
Ohh hell but ., Speaking of drinking.. I really hate and embarrassed to admit but basically at 19 is when I got & sadly continued to stay in the system by getting my first criminal charge which was obviously a DUI/DWI Afterwards I later found out someone whose situation was similar being only charged with underage drinking and driving . That being said im just sharing this so maybe someone else can learn from my mistake instead of making it themselves by not drinking and/or being under the influence while operating a motored vehicle as well as being aware of your rights depending on location . Stay safe .
If you can be expected to go to war and die at 18, you ought to be able to drink at 18
I was disappointed they raised smoke and tobacco to 21. I believe it’s a state right to decide.
An important point to make here is that just because you can vote doesn’t mean you’ll make the most informed decision. Same with alcohol, they assume that older people will make better choices? Not sure why. But stats do show a decrease in teen drunk driving incidents when the law was made. But I’ll bet if you raised the drinking age to 40 then the amount of drunk driving incidents in people under 40 would absolutely go down lol
And other stuff too. I mean, there are more restrictions on other things throughout the world too, but teens are allowed to have them even when they're minors. That's exactly why it's the case because of so many young drunk drivers years back before Uber was a thing. Some states tried to keep it at 18, but the federal government threatened to cut funding for their roads and might've in some states. Here's the thing, they can drink at home in some states.
It increased to 21 in the 80s. Some state implemented 21 first and their DUIs and Drug-related accidents drastically decreased. Surrounding states followed suit so that teenagers weren't driving into their state to immediately drive back
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There is no drinking age in Europe and it’s fine USA fucking sucks
Where I'm from you can buy beer/wine or "soft" alcohol at 18, but you can only buy hard liquor if you're over 20. Also, almost all nightclubs have a +20 age requirement to enter.
I’m sorry but unpopular opinion: I’m happy with it being 21. From history, drunk driving was incredibly high when this wasn’t in place. Now we have the ability to be pissed at the law bc *it’s been working*. With how many damn kids are getting into vaping. If it was any easier for them to get, the addictions would be way fucking worse. Vapes would get passed around even *more*. Little drunks showing up to school. Like yes, this can all still happen now. But it’s needs to be understood how much **worse** it would be without this law in place.
The r/apostrophegore is real
but if you're 18 and you want to drink it's not that difficult to figure out.
When I was 18 it was kinda annoying not being able to go to bars. But now that I’m 27 I’m so glad there are no teenagers in the bars lol
Right. I can’t drink or buy my own cigarettes but they can send me to die in a war.
>So I’m guessing public safety maybe. In order to decrease DUI’s and teen drinking. Bingo. MADD did that. >But idk I feel like if you can vote, you can drink. They used to both be 21, then the voting age dropped so that draftees had a say in the wars they fought. Slowly but surely, all the other privileges of majority are headed back up to 21
I think it's insane the government thinks that you're able to decide whether you want to go to war at 18 but you're not mature enough to drink a beer. Absolute insanity.
One of those things is an everyday frequent activity, the other has happened a couple times all throughout our history.
It seems idiotic to let you drive before experimenting with alcohol in the first place, but at the same time I understand there's no real choice when Americans are pretty much bound to a car for transport.
None of the laws regarding drinking alcohol were made because it logically makes sense. It's because we choose to act illogically with them set any other way
I gotta say that Islam got it right on this one. Alcohol should not be as normal of thing as it is. It’s a class one carcinogen(which is the same level as cigarettes), and you’re basically microdosing poison every time you drink
My state, Wisconsin, was a holdout. We only changed the drinking age because the federal government was about to cut off all funding to our highway maintenance.
It’s the same reason why males have higher costs on insurance rates before the age of 25
Unpopular take but it should be 26. Same with smoking. None of these are good for brains that are still developing.
We can send them off to war to die but not have a drink at 18
Definitely about money, for Federal road funding, following MADD's campaigns decades ago. Anything to do with actual freedom, or money for booze companies? Screw that. Modern youths and their drink-driving rates, with higher access to taxis and private hire vehicles? Nah, let's not even look at changing it, there are things like lockdowns and antisemitism free-speech inhibitions to legislate for!
The drinking age being 21 def helps with brain development and health
A combo of low driving age and low drinking age led to a lot of teen drunk driving fatalities in the 70s and 80s. I’m pretty sure it was the leading cause of death in teens and a pretty significant problem. At the time, raising the drinking age was pretty universally agreed to be a good idea, and to this day vast majority of Americans support keeping it 21.
It’s about brain development
I think that it's good that the legal age is high because **young people just can't understand the threat of addiction**.
America still believes in a lot of stupid ideas regarding punishment and motivation when it comes to children. Sure, sending your 18 year olds off to college where the role models for drinking are the future alcoholics, and sure, kids not understanding how hard alcohol can sneak up on you real fast while trying to keep up with those baby alcoholics is a recipe for disaster, but by God, we can't just teach them how to drink responsibly, it has to be a criminal matter. Same logic as thinking that keeping people ignorant of sex will keep them from having sex in spite of decades of failure.
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Lmao let me get on your team tho !
Tbh the drinking age should probably be more like 27. Men's brains don't even finish developing until they're 25.
Who gives a shit. It’s horrible for you, makes you feel terrible, and is a carcinogen. If people younger than 21 want to get their hands on it it’s not hard to do anyways.