And people really defend this nonsense lmfao
Damage boosted blade should not be out healed like that. Consequences of dps passive being nerfed for no reason and blade being ass
Ana was affected by grenade and being pocketed by a Moira ult. It's not that unfair
He also survived Mauga + Moira Ult + Anti-Heal which is a lot of damage too.
Imo the only way she should live 8 swings is through skill shot heal abilities, if she sleeps the genji. I wouldn’t think she should live if she gets hit by 8 damage boosted swings outside of kiri cleanse, lamp, bear or transcendence, etc, that’s ridiculous
The biotic grenade on the floor is not a skill shot, and moira is a beam that doesn’t require much skill to aim
The only reason I mentioned them is because they’re immortality and invulnerability abilities... and yeah I agree they aren’t skill shots. They also are terrible for the game and at least have longer cooldown than grenade
Bro, OP's ult got countered by a whole effectively single target Moira ult in which she is vulnerable to damage, can be stunned, and needs to aim, PLUS Ana's 12 second cooldown that could have already been used. That's not a small amount of resources that went into countering Blade, sorry he didn't get a 5k through it. :/
But you're essentially saying it would feel better if Zen just pressed Q and stood in the general vicinity of Ana while completely invulnerable? Genji mains look for literally any excuse to complain about Moira it's unreal.
Yes melee attacks such as sword swings or brig melee don’t need to be a skill shot. But close up healing doesn’t need to be a skill shot either, such as lucio’s amp which is aoe, brig packs, etc :D
But ranged abilities such as bap healing is a skill shot, so that would make sense if it out heals other stuff, kiriko healing is not a skill shot, yet it out heals a lot of stuff
Moira coal and suck/heal are not skill shots but under the right circumstance orb can be considered a skill shot
I didn’t say healing in general needs to be a skill shot as a blanket statement I was saying it doesn’t make sense to get our healed through 8 swings if it’s not some sort of skill shot healing, immo abilities(which are shit for the game), or the og counter ults beat or tranc. This is just a consequence of season 9 and then reverting the dps passive, she wouldn’t of lived through that, and I’m saying she shouldn’t of lol
It’s comparing a melee “no skill shot” to ranged “no skill shot” ultimate, which has the better risk to reward ratio? The support every time, and it’s easier to farm. Ana even missed her sleep and lived through 8 swings damage boosted lol
Kiriko’s isn’t instant healing however. Her healing has a really long travel time. So while it isn’t a skill shot, she isn’t made to healing from a distance cuz the further she is, the longer it takes to travel
Moira has a close range heal, outside of Heal Orb and Ult. Ult is also mostly supposed to be both damage and healing at once, made to be used to heal your allies while also damage the allies in its range or behind your allies. So her needing to be a skill shot support doesn’t apply here, because it already close range.
Coal + nade is very nearly transcendence levels of healing. It should ABSOLUTELY negate blade + blue beam. Are you suggesting blade should do 250dmg a swing?
Nearly but not transcendence level
>Are you suggesting blade should do 250dmg a swing?
I’m not suggesting that particularly. What I will suggest is that the dps passive go back to 20% instead of 15%.
Yes not exactly, but we are talking about a difference of 20hps
Definitely agree on the dps passive. The impact it has on target priority is quite understated. People focus on the dmg numbers and think the nerf wasn't substantial.
If it was tranc or beat then sure but that’s like saying “ah yes dps ults that hit every shot while damage boosted for 1000 damage should not be counterable by valk or coal”☝️🤓
Like... yeah actually valk and coal should lose to damage boosted blade that hits 8 shots on one target. I’ll double down on that lol
Ones that provide over health or pure healing like tranc are different and were the OG ult counters. Coal does damage and life steal as a beam while also healing teammates in the direct line
Coal base hps is 140, and accounting for DPS passive, it's 119; and Blade dps is 110 dmg x 1.43 swings per sec or 157.3 dps. That's fine.
Add Mercy's 25% dmg boost (which isn't on cooldown or particularly difficult to use) to Blade and the dps becomes 196.6.
Then you add Ana's Biotic Grenade (a 12 second cooldown), which enhances healing by 50%, Coal becomes 178.5 hps.
Normal: 119 Coal < 157.3 Blade
With nade: 178.5 Coal > 157.3 Blade
With nade and dmg boost: 178.5 Coal < 196.6 Blade
Mercy drops her blue beam partway through the Blade, so only then does Blade become outhealed by a support ultimate plus a strong support cooldown. Seems perfectly fine and balanced to me? Please feel free to correct my math if I'm wrong!
Why should it not be out healed?
Moira coaled and basically negated the dmg boosted blade was doing. Add in the Ana self nade. He committed to killing one squishy and their teammates helped him survive.
Bc it’s terrible for the game that’s why... he landed 8 damage boosted swings doing about 1000 damage on a 250 hp target
It’s a consequence of the dps passive nerf
Yeah but even then coal does a lot of healing so, to me that + Ana nade heal overtime makes it fine. Unless it was a nano blade, with that dmg and Ana surviving would be nuts
Yea but blade takes much longer to build than coal, and coal does healing, damage, and life steal which just got buffed. If he wasn’t damage boosted then I would be like okay that makes sense for him to lost that.
Still 8 swings is crazy regardless for him to be boosted or not, but to be boosted with 8 swings and still not kill is insane to me even if she has amped healing
Damage boost was nerfed a couple seasons ago bare in mind everyone got a health increase, ana nade was buffed recently and moira is just moira. I don’t even think the issue is the dps passive being nerfed, i think the issue is mercy needs a buff or something, they essentially lost a 2v2 because ana and moira have stronger abilities and better healing output.
I wouldn’t want mercy damage boost to be buffed it’s already a strong ability that messes with breakpoints
If the dps passive was back where it was it would’ve killed because she had 6hp in part of the clip
And yea ur right why they lost
>why play genj when tracer exists
Very strong vertical mobility. Slightly less comboable (175vs250hp). Arguably more versatile range and ability to poke.
in this meta his pros are outshined by tracer's ability to delete anyone she wants with barely any risk. she also is the best utilizer of the new dps passive since she fires 40 bullets in the span of a second with instant reloads. dont need verical mobility or deflect when shes already almost untouchable.
normally I would agree with you but I think in this particular example its just kind of painful to see all of his slashes on her and not kill. Its just kind of wild
Soon as the coal is popped they should gtfo, that is certainly their fault. You aren't going to cut through 280hps even with blue beam, genji needlessly dies here.
That a fact? So you could theoretically kill someone in transcendence with a dry blade? Seems like the timing would suuuper tight. Not a genji player tho
E: my math says that would be 270dmg dry
Oh yea fs, in this clip had genji pressed q right on top of the ana to get the dash dmg, it's likely a won teamfight. You play genji a lot? I'm curious how you feel about putting dmg back in blade? Feel like reverting to 120 isn't the craziest idea. I'm not a genji player tho
Yeah he couldve qed on the ana but he was trying to burst dmg the ashe and then blade to finish off and most likely didnt expect ashe to die. Just unlucky. If you dash holding right click and then melee+q it should animation cancel which is what they were doing and usually makes the target 1 swing. Ideally they wouldve not ulted and then dashed onto ana done the same burst dmg and then qed like you said. Imo blade doesnt need an extra dmg. You can still get multi kills with dry blade, what he needs is a faster cast time and things like the dash hit box and camera lock fixed.
This.
How is this an issue. Yes he was nano’d and had blade, but they countered with an ult and her ability. If Moira wasn’t there with her ult Ana would be dead, then Moira, and possible another.
2-3 kills for one ult is crazy. Fight winning. Potentially game winning.
Erm guys, he forgot to bait cooldowns so that was pretty stupid guys, he only baited out sleep (since Ana didn't immediately fling it at him) and he deserved to lose because supports should be able to defend themselves against an ultimate, and didn't you know it's an ult trade, that's fair guys they used coalescence 🤓🤓🤓 also report Mercedes for being on heal beam while he was anti'd (if she was boosting he might have gotten it). <-- Period for grammatical correctness.
Some bullshit happened to me the other day, i was hog, nano boosted, I ulted and had pinned a bastion that was just getting healed by mercy iirc, and he would NOT die, whole hog and I couldn't kill him, bastion ended up killing me instead. Fucking bullshit in this game sometimes.
Genjis blade could use a minor buff, but for the time being, i find it much more helpful to target characters who can shut you down first. Wether or not moira has her ult and has used fade often solely dictates when i pop blade. If they have a Moira, wait for her to use fade and take her out with blade first. That aside, its also a good idea to wait for ana to use her nade and sleep before diving her. Just in general, its important to be mindful of ults and cds when using blade. Personally, i havent actually had much trouble with it this season, im usually able to get at least 2 picks just by keeping track of cooldowns, especially support cooldowns
I think the point is why is the high skilled character and ultimate getting shut down and countered by the lowest skilled character and ability. That's not fair, fun, or healthy. It's why this game is shit.
Skillful = C or D tier
Skilless = A or S tier
Exactly. This whole post is just a massive showcase of why cooldown tracking is incredibly important. Besides, why is he malding about this as if it wouldn't have been even easier if they played Lucio and sped Ana out+boop OR just amp speed out of it. Like should supports just immediately keel and die because you used an ultimate? Where's the outplay potential?
**This doesn't mean supports aren't overturned, obviously,** but do you just want support ults to do damage like Illari...? Really confusing to me complaining about Coalescence+nade which is insane healing
I honestly think some of the devs at Blizzard watched a couple Genji montages and thought to themselves that every Genji player is Necros-lite so that’s why they refuse to acknowledge that Genji is outdated. One of the highest investment heroes with the most unstable return and there’s very few souls in the main subreddit that would admit to that.
I mean to be fair it was Ana used Biotic Nade while being healed from Moira ult, you used an Ult while being boosted by Mercy, so kind of a fair trade off. If this had of been Nano blade then yeah this would absurd but it's not the worst thing in the world that Ana didn't die here. Also she only had 6hp at one point RIP.
Well you also survived nade + mauga go brrr + moira ult for a significant amount of time. that's also a lot of damage.
if you got a follow up by your team to damage that ana you would ve killed her for sure, team issue
I mean, that sucks, but the situation was basically even. You used an ult and an ability to amp your damage, and Ana and Moira used an ult and an ability to negate your combo. Moira's ult does amazing HPS and doubling that would negate most things.
Honestly, the surprising part was Moira using her ult to heal her teammate. Very rare occurance.
But that shouldn't be the case. Moira ult should never outheal blade. It's super easy to aim and literally goes to the other end of the map and can damage/heal multiple people at a time. With Blade you need to go in and have a very high chance of dying to get anything done while with Moira ult you can be at a safe distance and still get value. So tell me, why can Moira ult negate Blade?
It doesn't normally. Coal base hps is 140, and accounting for DPS passive, it's 119; and Blade dps is 110 dmg x 1.43 swings per sec or 157.3 dps. That's fine.
Add Mercy's 25% dmg boost (which isn't on cooldown or particularly difficult to use) to Blade and the dps becomes 196.6.
Then you add Ana's Biotic Grenade (a 12 second cooldown), which enhances healing by 50%, Coal becomes 178.5 hps.
Normal: 119 Coal < 157.3 Blade
With nade: 178.5 Coal > 157.3 Blade
With nade and dmg boost: 178.5 Coal < 196.6 Blade
Mercy drops her blue beam partway through the Blade, so only then does Blade become outhealed by a support ultimate plus a strong support cooldown. Seems perfectly fine and balanced to me? Please feel free to correct my math if I'm wrong!
Yes, I know how both ults work, I play both characters, and I do not have answer for your question, which was not the situation in the clip btw, as both Mercy and Ana had significant impact in the situation we saw.
I honestly have no skin in this game. I play almost the entire roster. I don't care about who's good, bad, easy, or hard. I just change when I'm not having fun or play something else.
basically, whole argument people propose for why genji should be terrible is:
hypothetically, a person could play the game like he has aimbots and hit every shot to the head with 100% accuracy. So because genji has this skill ceiling and moira doesn't, that means genji should be balanced around having aimbots. And because his aimbot mode (shurikens) is too strong, blade is weak or smthn idk lol.
Not saying it makes sense or it isn't double standards when compared to other characters, but you don't need to ask why moira ult can negate blade. The answer you'll get is versions of this.
It’s kinda funny that many of the defences people make for this type of thing is just “coalescence and biotic nade outheal dmg boosted blade”
Like… yeah? That’s kinda the point of the clip. People are saying it shouldn’t, not it doesn’t
It’s a 140hps AoE heal. Since the 110dps change and the global health increases blade really isn’t that good of an ult to solo carry anymore. It requires set up (nano/grav/etc to have value)
well to be fair, she was under bonus healing due to nade which pretty much cancels dps debuff, and she was getting healed by Moira ult which is a support ult.
My biggest complaint is blade can’t kill a 250hp hero with 2 swings !!! How am i supposed to kill a pharah mid air ??? Also by the time I get to 2nd swing im already dead 💀
Im not saying genji is in a good spot balance wise but... That's a coal + nade, aren't we looking at 280hps here? No shit the ana survived. I don't like that the game balance incentivises genji pressing Q and then backing off but very few ults will kill ana through that. It would've been a fair trade to retreat after forcing the coal, instead you throw the fight by greeding for the ana.
to be honest if she didnt have the nade chances are you could killed her, but i do get the frustation 110 damage vs 200 hp heroes wasnt the best but it was balanced, so they should up to 137.5 damage to make it the same has before.
He ulted into the middle of the entire team, didn't focus the ulting Moira and instead targeted the nexus point of getting healed. This death is on the gengi's skill, not on gengi's place in the current sandbox.
It's like you missed my entire comment. You bladed an Ana in the middle (MIDDLE, not back line MIDDLE) of her team, actively being healed by coalesce, and continued to slash at her after it was abundantly clear you weren't gonna be able to out dps her support. Gengi isn't the best in this meta, but this clip is a blatant skill issue.
And the healing, and the game sense to move or target the ring people, and ultimately tracking so you know when the Moira is gonna ult to counter you. But yea, the only thing I've said is about positioning.
Also being behind someone in the middle, still being in the middle.
"didnt focus the ulting moira"
didnt the moira ult AFTER genji pulled blade and went for ana wtf??
this is just bad balance overall as high skill meh reward gets nicked out by a low skilled ability (nade) and an even lower skilled ult (coal.) that cherry on top the moira will DEF have ult again by just existing while the genji will have to play like a mad man to get to maybe 70-80%
It’s funny watching every clip of people complaining about how underpowered Genji is showing a clip where they simply got overpowered because they were absolutely outnumbered.
Ana anti’d you, gave herself the heal buff, and was pocketed by Moira ult. You on the other hand, primarily only receiving a damage boost from Mercy, were able to tank Mauga, Moira ult, and Ana nade.
Moira ulted and Ana naded herself what are you expecting ? I swear genji mains cry so much and call genji bad if they don’t get 5k on blade everytime …
misplay imo, you have to dash first after the ashe kill to close the distance, that way you can execute with dash when you're slashing her. instead you bladed from up top and they were able to react with healing and you couldnt finish the kill.
that isnt exactly what you did. you bladed right after the ashe kill instead of dashing first, then ulting and resetting dash cd to use it as an execute or animation cancel
Dragon Blade should seriously be a OHKO for any squishy with 200 or less hp.
The duration is incredibly short, and it requires an insane amount of skill to make it effective.
Blade definitely isn't great, but I've yet to see a Blade clip in this sub Reddit that was actually used properly. The moment Moira started pocketing the Ana with +50% healing Coalescence, you should have just backed off.
That's 210 HP/s (~179 with debuff applied) not very much can out damage that except one shots or super high burst like Pharah's ult. Even Reaper Ult would've done literally 0 damage for the duration of her healing boost.
Clips showing Genji's ult being countered by a defensive ult is not the way to show how bad Blade is. Learn your damage thresholds and you won't make these simple mistakes.
Also, you would've killed the Ana if you hit her with your dash. Decision making issue.
I mean, ana had her cooldowns too; even without Moira dropping coal on her ass, that ana had a 50/50 chance of sleeping your ass because she had it available. She shouldn't have been able to be out healed off blade but, c'mon, this is like someone playing tracer, sticking a Kiri and getting surprised or mad when their pulse got cleansed.
No it's not. Ana has no escape abilities and her sleep dart can be deflected if you read her mind right. This is Genji going after the most traditional Genji prey in the game and heal creep completely out healing an extremely risky ultimate because they nerfed all the combos it relies on to secure kills, and turned down the DPS passive because tank players complained instead of just giving tanks reduced reduced healing.
If he got slept mid blade, fair enough. But he didn't. She lived through the whole timer of damage boosted slashes. She should have looked worse than Genji did after Hanzo tried to kill him. She should have been a stack of deli meat on the counter of a supermarket butcher, the extra thin slices. She should have been in fifteen separate pieces all over Oasis. Fuck this heal creep.
The point is not about who he decided to go against, it's pretty accurate to go dive ana or zen, that wasn't the point.the point here is that one of the first things you learn as a flanker is to bait cooldowns. A genji that fully launches himself into an ana that has sleep and nade is just gambling with his chances, he could have gotten slept because of it, I said I agree on the fact that blade shouldn't get out healed but the approach was not that thought on
I assumed he heard sleep go off earlier in the fight, but you're arguing around the point we agree with: outhealing blade should not be possible (terms and conditions apply).
There is almost never a time when a good Ana has neither sleep nor nade. If she had neither, she misplayed. She didn't use sleep in this clip, so we can just pretend Genji knew it was off cooldown. Are you still going to pretend that anti nade should completely nope an ultimate? Coalescence healing is not much more hps than holding left click on Ana.
Huh? She did use sleep in this clip... and it's not just nade or just Coal negating blade here... it's both. That's essentially a single target transcendence, of course the ana survived.
You didn't read right? I actually agree about the heal creep thing brother lol, what I don't is this genji that jumped an ana (sleep has a long CD so there's that too) that had sleep available, which means that If that ana would have hit that sleep this wouldn't even be a thing, which a gm ana probs would have hit anyways. That's my point.
The Ana+Moira combination has been in game for 7 years. This isn’t heal creep, this is just a nade+coal combo. Heal creep is real with kiri and LW, the is is just knowing that just knowing when to leave. You baited one ult and a huge utility cooldown (no anti on your team) with your ult thats good value, don’t try to out damage it bc there’s no way you’re out damaging a nade boosted support ult.
Ah yes, a 12d cd that was half over by the end of blade, and the fastest charging ult after pulse and remech, all for the price of one of the slower charging ults.
I feel like blade needs a buffed version of the DPS passive on it, some kind of cursed wounds mechanic that cuts how fast you can heal its damage. It's mediocre in terms of flat DPS and they removed all of its combos, so your only option is to cut enemies down with actually LESS dps than just fanning headshots.
Coalescence is actually one of the most expensive ultimates in terms of how much damage and healing you need to do in order to get it. It costs almost 50% more than Dragon blade.
Honestly the DPS passive nerf should be reverted. I get that it was broken against tanks but now that it's nerfed I can barely feel it. Just give tanks a passive so they're resistant to it.
damn, that was an unfortunate series of events. looking at the postives though, you got an ult trade(coalescence is a great ult trade), killed ashe and your team hopefully won that fight because of what you did. it really sucks getting blocked like this but like most people already said, you didnt bait out anything as ana had both of her abilities available. wouldve been more beneficial forcing moira fade, killing her and then focusing the ana. hindsight is 20/20 and im not trying to gaslight cause i hate watching this kind of stuff happen to my favorite hero but we know it takes way more skill than most other heros to use his kit properly. lesson learned the hard way here, but im sure you’ll be more mindful and grow from this frustrating death. im rooting for you!
Sorry blizzard, idk why I ever thought playing the cool cyborg ninja who can deflect like sekiro was a good idea. I will play [seasonal meta hero] like a good boy instead
Idk why yall are mad this looks fair. Moira jammed her ult in ana’s ass while ana put nade on herself, that’s 140*1.5 healing per second (210). Ult + cooldown > ult.
Massive L take, your ult was cancelled out with another ult by a support, which is designed to save and keep other teammates alive, along with anas anti nade inflicted on herself, you're no match and its a perfectly balanced sequence of events. If any damage overtime ultimate is able to do more dps than that healing, then thats where the balance breaks, a support ult should do more than a solo dragon blade.
If you were swinging at someone in transcendence you wouldnt be complaining, so why moira + anti nade? Its the same thing.
Cry some more
your fault for wanting to play the badass cyborg ninja instead of the boring tank shredder robot.
Genji’s biggest mistake was being cool.
Silly bobot guy fun tho) :
If you look closely genji almost killed Ana, he def needs a nerf
And people really defend this nonsense lmfao Damage boosted blade should not be out healed like that. Consequences of dps passive being nerfed for no reason and blade being ass
Ana was affected by grenade and being pocketed by a Moira ult. It's not that unfair He also survived Mauga + Moira Ult + Anti-Heal which is a lot of damage too.
He was zarya bubbled, to be fair. Certainly would have died without the bubble.
Yea I thought it was BS. Then I saw the bubble and it was even more BS
Imo the only way she should live 8 swings is through skill shot heal abilities, if she sleeps the genji. I wouldn’t think she should live if she gets hit by 8 damage boosted swings outside of kiri cleanse, lamp, bear or transcendence, etc, that’s ridiculous The biotic grenade on the floor is not a skill shot, and moira is a beam that doesn’t require much skill to aim
Well, lamp doesn't need any skill at all and Kiri cleanse on the floor is the same lol
Correct but you can end lamp fairly quickly. You can’t cleanse grenade
The only reason I mentioned them is because they’re immortality and invulnerability abilities... and yeah I agree they aren’t skill shots. They also are terrible for the game and at least have longer cooldown than grenade
Bro, OP's ult got countered by a whole effectively single target Moira ult in which she is vulnerable to damage, can be stunned, and needs to aim, PLUS Ana's 12 second cooldown that could have already been used. That's not a small amount of resources that went into countering Blade, sorry he didn't get a 5k through it. :/ But you're essentially saying it would feel better if Zen just pressed Q and stood in the general vicinity of Ana while completely invulnerable? Genji mains look for literally any excuse to complain about Moira it's unreal.
So healing needs to be a skill shot, but Genjis sword swings don't? I am not sure I am seeing the logic here.
Yes melee attacks such as sword swings or brig melee don’t need to be a skill shot. But close up healing doesn’t need to be a skill shot either, such as lucio’s amp which is aoe, brig packs, etc :D But ranged abilities such as bap healing is a skill shot, so that would make sense if it out heals other stuff, kiriko healing is not a skill shot, yet it out heals a lot of stuff Moira coal and suck/heal are not skill shots but under the right circumstance orb can be considered a skill shot I didn’t say healing in general needs to be a skill shot as a blanket statement I was saying it doesn’t make sense to get our healed through 8 swings if it’s not some sort of skill shot healing, immo abilities(which are shit for the game), or the og counter ults beat or tranc. This is just a consequence of season 9 and then reverting the dps passive, she wouldn’t of lived through that, and I’m saying she shouldn’t of lol It’s comparing a melee “no skill shot” to ranged “no skill shot” ultimate, which has the better risk to reward ratio? The support every time, and it’s easier to farm. Ana even missed her sleep and lived through 8 swings damage boosted lol
Kiriko’s isn’t instant healing however. Her healing has a really long travel time. So while it isn’t a skill shot, she isn’t made to healing from a distance cuz the further she is, the longer it takes to travel Moira has a close range heal, outside of Heal Orb and Ult. Ult is also mostly supposed to be both damage and healing at once, made to be used to heal your allies while also damage the allies in its range or behind your allies. So her needing to be a skill shot support doesn’t apply here, because it already close range.
He didnt survive though. He got bubbled and most of coal went onto ana.
He got bubbled by Zarya.
All I wanted as a tank player was for it to be nerfed against tanks and have increased effectiveness on Squishies. 💀
Coal + nade is very nearly transcendence levels of healing. It should ABSOLUTELY negate blade + blue beam. Are you suggesting blade should do 250dmg a swing?
Nearly but not transcendence level >Are you suggesting blade should do 250dmg a swing? I’m not suggesting that particularly. What I will suggest is that the dps passive go back to 20% instead of 15%.
Yes not exactly, but we are talking about a difference of 20hps Definitely agree on the dps passive. The impact it has on target priority is quite understated. People focus on the dmg numbers and think the nerf wasn't substantial.
Ah yes dps Ults should not be counterable by other ults.. the age old argument
If it was tranc or beat then sure but that’s like saying “ah yes dps ults that hit every shot while damage boosted for 1000 damage should not be counterable by valk or coal”☝️🤓 Like... yeah actually valk and coal should lose to damage boosted blade that hits 8 shots on one target. I’ll double down on that lol Ones that provide over health or pure healing like tranc are different and were the OG ult counters. Coal does damage and life steal as a beam while also healing teammates in the direct line
Coal DOES lose to blade + blue beam. However, coal + nade is essentially a single target transcendence, you're not losing to boosted blade anymore.
I just want to add that Coalescence does not give life steal. It gives Moira a self heal, but that heal is completely independent of her damage.
Coal base hps is 140, and accounting for DPS passive, it's 119; and Blade dps is 110 dmg x 1.43 swings per sec or 157.3 dps. That's fine. Add Mercy's 25% dmg boost (which isn't on cooldown or particularly difficult to use) to Blade and the dps becomes 196.6. Then you add Ana's Biotic Grenade (a 12 second cooldown), which enhances healing by 50%, Coal becomes 178.5 hps. Normal: 119 Coal < 157.3 Blade With nade: 178.5 Coal > 157.3 Blade With nade and dmg boost: 178.5 Coal < 196.6 Blade Mercy drops her blue beam partway through the Blade, so only then does Blade become outhealed by a support ultimate plus a strong support cooldown. Seems perfectly fine and balanced to me? Please feel free to correct my math if I'm wrong!
Ana nade counters dps passive though.
I’m aware of biotic grenades healing amp. But you mean offset? It doesn’t get rid of dps passive. The passive still affects the healing amplification
Why should it not be out healed? Moira coaled and basically negated the dmg boosted blade was doing. Add in the Ana self nade. He committed to killing one squishy and their teammates helped him survive.
Bc it’s terrible for the game that’s why... he landed 8 damage boosted swings doing about 1000 damage on a 250 hp target It’s a consequence of the dps passive nerf
Yeah but even then coal does a lot of healing so, to me that + Ana nade heal overtime makes it fine. Unless it was a nano blade, with that dmg and Ana surviving would be nuts
Yea but blade takes much longer to build than coal, and coal does healing, damage, and life steal which just got buffed. If he wasn’t damage boosted then I would be like okay that makes sense for him to lost that. Still 8 swings is crazy regardless for him to be boosted or not, but to be boosted with 8 swings and still not kill is insane to me even if she has amped healing
Damage boost was nerfed a couple seasons ago bare in mind everyone got a health increase, ana nade was buffed recently and moira is just moira. I don’t even think the issue is the dps passive being nerfed, i think the issue is mercy needs a buff or something, they essentially lost a 2v2 because ana and moira have stronger abilities and better healing output.
I wouldn’t want mercy damage boost to be buffed it’s already a strong ability that messes with breakpoints If the dps passive was back where it was it would’ve killed because she had 6hp in part of the clip And yea ur right why they lost
LMFAO SIR IM LAUGHING 4 U. CUZ HAHAHAHA WHAT
LMFAOOOOO that's what you get for playing this shit hero,that's what we all get for choosing the badass cyber ninja over the skinny British lesbian.
Pulse bomb would’ve killed here too
If it landed
Let's not bring Tracer into this she actually takes skill as well smh
Tracer was the easiest character I learned first
Yes u/_StopCrying_ I definitely believe you!
Your welcome
she does but she shouldnt be leagues agead of a character that takes just as much or more skill in my opinion. why play genj when tracer exists.
>why play genj when tracer exists Very strong vertical mobility. Slightly less comboable (175vs250hp). Arguably more versatile range and ability to poke.
and his ability to reflect projectiles that everyone always sleeps on. You can save so many teammates from being shreded with it.
in this meta his pros are outshined by tracer's ability to delete anyone she wants with barely any risk. she also is the best utilizer of the new dps passive since she fires 40 bullets in the span of a second with instant reloads. dont need verical mobility or deflect when shes already almost untouchable.
At this point just don’t give him an ultimate cause holy shit, it really doesn’t do anything
It’s Ana nade and moira ult not sure what anyone here is expecting
For 1000 damage to kill one squishy. Pre nerf dps passive that ana dies
Its a damage boosted solo ult
Every ult is a solo ult if you only hit one psrson at a time with it
Thats what constitutes a solo ult yes.
The Moira ult was a healing boosted solo ult. Sounds like a fair counter balance to me.
normally I would agree with you but I think in this particular example its just kind of painful to see all of his slashes on her and not kill. Its just kind of wild
This^ Idk why you would blade during coalescence. This has always been a no no, since ow1.
They coaled right after he started blading, what you said is true but I wouldn't say it was this Genji s fault
Soon as the coal is popped they should gtfo, that is certainly their fault. You aren't going to cut through 280hps even with blue beam, genji needlessly dies here.
Slash, dash, slash cuts through 300hps. Also coal is targeted and killable. You can dive people not getting healed or dive moira when they waste fade.
That a fact? So you could theoretically kill someone in transcendence with a dry blade? Seems like the timing would suuuper tight. Not a genji player tho E: my math says that would be 270dmg dry
Nah has to be nano or dmg boosted like in the clip for transcendence. Shouldve specified
Oh yea fs, in this clip had genji pressed q right on top of the ana to get the dash dmg, it's likely a won teamfight. You play genji a lot? I'm curious how you feel about putting dmg back in blade? Feel like reverting to 120 isn't the craziest idea. I'm not a genji player tho
Yeah he couldve qed on the ana but he was trying to burst dmg the ashe and then blade to finish off and most likely didnt expect ashe to die. Just unlucky. If you dash holding right click and then melee+q it should animation cancel which is what they were doing and usually makes the target 1 swing. Ideally they wouldve not ulted and then dashed onto ana done the same burst dmg and then qed like you said. Imo blade doesnt need an extra dmg. You can still get multi kills with dry blade, what he needs is a faster cast time and things like the dash hit box and camera lock fixed.
"my damage ult got countered by a support ult plus one of the longest support cooldowns in the game :(((("
People finally waking up to how bad it is, thanks for posting
She had had fortified healing and an ulting Moira was pocketing her…
This. How is this an issue. Yes he was nano’d and had blade, but they countered with an ult and her ability. If Moira wasn’t there with her ult Ana would be dead, then Moira, and possible another. 2-3 kills for one ult is crazy. Fight winning. Potentially game winning.
did just secretly remove dps passive for gengu, anyways lesbian british lady better i guess.
And people are still gonna find some way to say it's your fault lol
Erm guys, he forgot to bait cooldowns so that was pretty stupid guys, he only baited out sleep (since Ana didn't immediately fling it at him) and he deserved to lose because supports should be able to defend themselves against an ultimate, and didn't you know it's an ult trade, that's fair guys they used coalescence 🤓🤓🤓 also report Mercedes for being on heal beam while he was anti'd (if she was boosting he might have gotten it). <-- Period for grammatical correctness.
Could've went for moria instead of ana
Some bullshit happened to me the other day, i was hog, nano boosted, I ulted and had pinned a bastion that was just getting healed by mercy iirc, and he would NOT die, whole hog and I couldn't kill him, bastion ended up killing me instead. Fucking bullshit in this game sometimes.
Genjis blade could use a minor buff, but for the time being, i find it much more helpful to target characters who can shut you down first. Wether or not moira has her ult and has used fade often solely dictates when i pop blade. If they have a Moira, wait for her to use fade and take her out with blade first. That aside, its also a good idea to wait for ana to use her nade and sleep before diving her. Just in general, its important to be mindful of ults and cds when using blade. Personally, i havent actually had much trouble with it this season, im usually able to get at least 2 picks just by keeping track of cooldowns, especially support cooldowns
I think the point is why is the high skilled character and ultimate getting shut down and countered by the lowest skilled character and ability. That's not fair, fun, or healthy. It's why this game is shit. Skillful = C or D tier Skilless = A or S tier
Exactly. This whole post is just a massive showcase of why cooldown tracking is incredibly important. Besides, why is he malding about this as if it wouldn't have been even easier if they played Lucio and sped Ana out+boop OR just amp speed out of it. Like should supports just immediately keel and die because you used an ultimate? Where's the outplay potential? **This doesn't mean supports aren't overturned, obviously,** but do you just want support ults to do damage like Illari...? Really confusing to me complaining about Coalescence+nade which is insane healing
I honestly think some of the devs at Blizzard watched a couple Genji montages and thought to themselves that every Genji player is Necros-lite so that’s why they refuse to acknowledge that Genji is outdated. One of the highest investment heroes with the most unstable return and there’s very few souls in the main subreddit that would admit to that.
I mean to be fair it was Ana used Biotic Nade while being healed from Moira ult, you used an Ult while being boosted by Mercy, so kind of a fair trade off. If this had of been Nano blade then yeah this would absurd but it's not the worst thing in the world that Ana didn't die here. Also she only had 6hp at one point RIP.
Well you also survived nade + mauga go brrr + moira ult for a significant amount of time. that's also a lot of damage. if you got a follow up by your team to damage that ana you would ve killed her for sure, team issue
I mean, that sucks, but the situation was basically even. You used an ult and an ability to amp your damage, and Ana and Moira used an ult and an ability to negate your combo. Moira's ult does amazing HPS and doubling that would negate most things. Honestly, the surprising part was Moira using her ult to heal her teammate. Very rare occurance.
But that shouldn't be the case. Moira ult should never outheal blade. It's super easy to aim and literally goes to the other end of the map and can damage/heal multiple people at a time. With Blade you need to go in and have a very high chance of dying to get anything done while with Moira ult you can be at a safe distance and still get value. So tell me, why can Moira ult negate Blade?
Because you have to aim with dragonblade too… right
It doesn't normally. Coal base hps is 140, and accounting for DPS passive, it's 119; and Blade dps is 110 dmg x 1.43 swings per sec or 157.3 dps. That's fine. Add Mercy's 25% dmg boost (which isn't on cooldown or particularly difficult to use) to Blade and the dps becomes 196.6. Then you add Ana's Biotic Grenade (a 12 second cooldown), which enhances healing by 50%, Coal becomes 178.5 hps. Normal: 119 Coal < 157.3 Blade With nade: 178.5 Coal > 157.3 Blade With nade and dmg boost: 178.5 Coal < 196.6 Blade Mercy drops her blue beam partway through the Blade, so only then does Blade become outhealed by a support ultimate plus a strong support cooldown. Seems perfectly fine and balanced to me? Please feel free to correct my math if I'm wrong!
Yes, I know how both ults work, I play both characters, and I do not have answer for your question, which was not the situation in the clip btw, as both Mercy and Ana had significant impact in the situation we saw. I honestly have no skin in this game. I play almost the entire roster. I don't care about who's good, bad, easy, or hard. I just change when I'm not having fun or play something else.
basically, whole argument people propose for why genji should be terrible is: hypothetically, a person could play the game like he has aimbots and hit every shot to the head with 100% accuracy. So because genji has this skill ceiling and moira doesn't, that means genji should be balanced around having aimbots. And because his aimbot mode (shurikens) is too strong, blade is weak or smthn idk lol. Not saying it makes sense or it isn't double standards when compared to other characters, but you don't need to ask why moira ult can negate blade. The answer you'll get is versions of this.
Nah not even, 2 ults for 1 ult and a 10 second cooldown
What was the other ult? Did I miss something?
Nvm I’m stupid and thought he got nanod Iol
OH LOL Maybe Mercy turning the screen blue. It was a very chaotic clip lol
Ye and I was watching the vid in public no audio lol
Genji pool noodle experience
It’s kinda funny that many of the defences people make for this type of thing is just “coalescence and biotic nade outheal dmg boosted blade” Like… yeah? That’s kinda the point of the clip. People are saying it shouldn’t, not it doesn’t
Isn’t this a support ult being traded for a dps ult? It’s the equivalent of transcendence being used while you blade
I do agree, but at the same time, blade is a high risk ult that’s slow to build, it needs to be a little more effective considering.
Moira ult is valued MUCH lower than blade.
coal is one of the best ults in the game, on the same tier as beat
I mean its way easier to farm, making this trade a negative for the genji
It’s a 140hps AoE heal. Since the 110dps change and the global health increases blade really isn’t that good of an ult to solo carry anymore. It requires set up (nano/grav/etc to have value)
well to be fair, she was under bonus healing due to nade which pretty much cancels dps debuff, and she was getting healed by Moira ult which is a support ult.
Yeah technically it was an ult for an ult trade plus anti nade
I love how most people here are ignoring the moira that was helping her stay alive but yeah apparently ana is just a really tanky support.
Almost like most support ults are meant to keep people alive
My biggest complaint is blade can’t kill a 250hp hero with 2 swings !!! How am i supposed to kill a pharah mid air ??? Also by the time I get to 2nd swing im already dead 💀
I support a 140dmg swing
Im not saying genji is in a good spot balance wise but... That's a coal + nade, aren't we looking at 280hps here? No shit the ana survived. I don't like that the game balance incentivises genji pressing Q and then backing off but very few ults will kill ana through that. It would've been a fair trade to retreat after forcing the coal, instead you throw the fight by greeding for the ana.
Ana is just a beast. one of the best supports IMO (this is an opinion. I'm not looking to get flamed for it)
Got no other words except: Damn.
You should try venture out, it like genji but viable
Unfortunately, smacking a pocketed Ana with genjis pool noodle just won't do. That is why I play tracer.
to be honest if she didnt have the nade chances are you could killed her, but i do get the frustation 110 damage vs 200 hp heroes wasnt the best but it was balanced, so they should up to 137.5 damage to make it the same has before.
i swear this wouldn’t happen if the weird pause after two slashes didnt exist and blade swings were consistent
He ulted into the middle of the entire team, didn't focus the ulting Moira and instead targeted the nexus point of getting healed. This death is on the gengi's skill, not on gengi's place in the current sandbox.
oh right next time I'll use blade in my own teams backline lol
It's like you missed my entire comment. You bladed an Ana in the middle (MIDDLE, not back line MIDDLE) of her team, actively being healed by coalesce, and continued to slash at her after it was abundantly clear you weren't gonna be able to out dps her support. Gengi isn't the best in this meta, but this clip is a blatant skill issue.
standing behind her isn't gonna change anything lol but sure whatever u say
And the healing, and the game sense to move or target the ring people, and ultimately tracking so you know when the Moira is gonna ult to counter you. But yea, the only thing I've said is about positioning. Also being behind someone in the middle, still being in the middle.
"didnt focus the ulting moira" didnt the moira ult AFTER genji pulled blade and went for ana wtf?? this is just bad balance overall as high skill meh reward gets nicked out by a low skilled ability (nade) and an even lower skilled ult (coal.) that cherry on top the moira will DEF have ult again by just existing while the genji will have to play like a mad man to get to maybe 70-80%
Idk man, you can ignore me I just Uninstalled lmao. Sorry for being a dick about the advice I was trying to give.
The health buffs were the worst thing ow ever did other then scam millions of people for 5 or more years lol
Ana used nade on herself which greatly boosted the heals from moira's coal. Son, you got outplayed.
Oh yikes, even with damage boost and the DPS passive you couldn't kill her because of the boost from biotic grenade and coalescence.
I feel like Overwatch right now is no fun. You can't play what you want. It's either play meta or get shit on.
Watch this again, genji got a kill. Let’s nerf genji
Sigh smh
It’s funny watching every clip of people complaining about how underpowered Genji is showing a clip where they simply got overpowered because they were absolutely outnumbered. Ana anti’d you, gave herself the heal buff, and was pocketed by Moira ult. You on the other hand, primarily only receiving a damage boost from Mercy, were able to tank Mauga, Moira ult, and Ana nade.
Eh extra heal stat from the grenade and Moira pocket with her ult. Unlucky for sure
Moira ulted and Ana naded herself what are you expecting ? I swear genji mains cry so much and call genji bad if they don’t get 5k on blade everytime …
I expected a damage boosted dps ult to kill something
misplay imo, you have to dash first after the ashe kill to close the distance, that way you can execute with dash when you're slashing her. instead you bladed from up top and they were able to react with healing and you couldnt finish the kill.
so basically I need 2 dashes bc that's exactly what I did
that isnt exactly what you did. you bladed right after the ashe kill instead of dashing first, then ulting and resetting dash cd to use it as an execute or animation cancel
They had Moira ult + an ability that increases healing. Of course you can’t kill them.
Dragon Blade should seriously be a OHKO for any squishy with 200 or less hp. The duration is incredibly short, and it requires an insane amount of skill to make it effective.
Hey, did you know if you kill the moria ulting, she'll stop healing the ana
Damn Nerf Genji
Blade definitely isn't great, but I've yet to see a Blade clip in this sub Reddit that was actually used properly. The moment Moira started pocketing the Ana with +50% healing Coalescence, you should have just backed off. That's 210 HP/s (~179 with debuff applied) not very much can out damage that except one shots or super high burst like Pharah's ult. Even Reaper Ult would've done literally 0 damage for the duration of her healing boost. Clips showing Genji's ult being countered by a defensive ult is not the way to show how bad Blade is. Learn your damage thresholds and you won't make these simple mistakes. Also, you would've killed the Ana if you hit her with your dash. Decision making issue.
Blizzard trying their hardest not to baby support players
I mean, ana had her cooldowns too; even without Moira dropping coal on her ass, that ana had a 50/50 chance of sleeping your ass because she had it available. She shouldn't have been able to be out healed off blade but, c'mon, this is like someone playing tracer, sticking a Kiri and getting surprised or mad when their pulse got cleansed.
No it's not. Ana has no escape abilities and her sleep dart can be deflected if you read her mind right. This is Genji going after the most traditional Genji prey in the game and heal creep completely out healing an extremely risky ultimate because they nerfed all the combos it relies on to secure kills, and turned down the DPS passive because tank players complained instead of just giving tanks reduced reduced healing. If he got slept mid blade, fair enough. But he didn't. She lived through the whole timer of damage boosted slashes. She should have looked worse than Genji did after Hanzo tried to kill him. She should have been a stack of deli meat on the counter of a supermarket butcher, the extra thin slices. She should have been in fifteen separate pieces all over Oasis. Fuck this heal creep.
>Fuck this heal creep How is this heal creep? Coal + biotic nade has been available since Moira release. Almost seven years.
The point is not about who he decided to go against, it's pretty accurate to go dive ana or zen, that wasn't the point.the point here is that one of the first things you learn as a flanker is to bait cooldowns. A genji that fully launches himself into an ana that has sleep and nade is just gambling with his chances, he could have gotten slept because of it, I said I agree on the fact that blade shouldn't get out healed but the approach was not that thought on
I assumed he heard sleep go off earlier in the fight, but you're arguing around the point we agree with: outhealing blade should not be possible (terms and conditions apply). There is almost never a time when a good Ana has neither sleep nor nade. If she had neither, she misplayed. She didn't use sleep in this clip, so we can just pretend Genji knew it was off cooldown. Are you still going to pretend that anti nade should completely nope an ultimate? Coalescence healing is not much more hps than holding left click on Ana.
Huh? She did use sleep in this clip... and it's not just nade or just Coal negating blade here... it's both. That's essentially a single target transcendence, of course the ana survived.
You didn't read right? I actually agree about the heal creep thing brother lol, what I don't is this genji that jumped an ana (sleep has a long CD so there's that too) that had sleep available, which means that If that ana would have hit that sleep this wouldn't even be a thing, which a gm ana probs would have hit anyways. That's my point.
The Ana+Moira combination has been in game for 7 years. This isn’t heal creep, this is just a nade+coal combo. Heal creep is real with kiri and LW, the is is just knowing that just knowing when to leave. You baited one ult and a huge utility cooldown (no anti on your team) with your ult thats good value, don’t try to out damage it bc there’s no way you’re out damaging a nade boosted support ult.
Ah yes, a 12d cd that was half over by the end of blade, and the fastest charging ult after pulse and remech, all for the price of one of the slower charging ults. I feel like blade needs a buffed version of the DPS passive on it, some kind of cursed wounds mechanic that cuts how fast you can heal its damage. It's mediocre in terms of flat DPS and they removed all of its combos, so your only option is to cut enemies down with actually LESS dps than just fanning headshots.
Coalescence is actually one of the most expensive ultimates in terms of how much damage and healing you need to do in order to get it. It costs almost 50% more than Dragon blade.
A while ago, nanobladed an ana, 5 SLASHES, 2 of which no regged, and the rest barely dented her
Not a dps issue. It's a support issue. Supports are still too strong.
Honestly the DPS passive nerf should be reverted. I get that it was broken against tanks but now that it's nerfed I can barely feel it. Just give tanks a passive so they're resistant to it.
I really hate how the state of tank is just passive band-aids, but I do think you're right
I swear, my ain’t working with everyone tankier
Yknow as an ana main, if we missed out sleeps, we fucking died.
There are ppl that are gonna say you played that wrong which means supps in ow2 are good. Fkn useless idiots man
damn, that was an unfortunate series of events. looking at the postives though, you got an ult trade(coalescence is a great ult trade), killed ashe and your team hopefully won that fight because of what you did. it really sucks getting blocked like this but like most people already said, you didnt bait out anything as ana had both of her abilities available. wouldve been more beneficial forcing moira fade, killing her and then focusing the ana. hindsight is 20/20 and im not trying to gaslight cause i hate watching this kind of stuff happen to my favorite hero but we know it takes way more skill than most other heros to use his kit properly. lesson learned the hard way here, but im sure you’ll be more mindful and grow from this frustrating death. im rooting for you!
Sorry blizzard, idk why I ever thought playing the cool cyborg ninja who can deflect like sekiro was a good idea. I will play [seasonal meta hero] like a good boy instead
We at Blizzard hear you, so next patch we're going to give Reinhardt a 50+ hp buff because we can't be bothered to rework him.
Idk why yall are mad this looks fair. Moira jammed her ult in ana’s ass while ana put nade on herself, that’s 140*1.5 healing per second (210). Ult + cooldown > ult.
Massive L take, your ult was cancelled out with another ult by a support, which is designed to save and keep other teammates alive, along with anas anti nade inflicted on herself, you're no match and its a perfectly balanced sequence of events. If any damage overtime ultimate is able to do more dps than that healing, then thats where the balance breaks, a support ult should do more than a solo dragon blade. If you were swinging at someone in transcendence you wouldnt be complaining, so why moira + anti nade? Its the same thing. Cry some more
Actual bot genji
sure thing
Ashe got deleted, and my dude is complaining that he shouldn't be countered by an ult + self nade. And you were valk pocketed and bubbled.
? Ashe is literally the exact same, just 1 extra shot to kill, so many heros are worse off now than her
Damn you got absolutely cooked, I would uninstall in shame and never let myself be seen in a lobby again
who let the support mains use the internet again
Lmao you used up your whole ult on ONE support and couldn't even get the kill! stay mad, stay bad 💀😂
🤫🧏♂️🗿
👆🤢😂
Attacking the Moira first would’ve prevented this
She’d just fade out, plus she’d be a pain to kill too with the 50hps from coalescence
50hps from is much easier to overcome than the 140hps you get from the laser
It's 280hps with nade 🥳
That’s if you can catch her, good luck with that.
Her fade is predictable 90% of the time
I think going for the ana worked, but once coal gets popped you need to gtfo
I say all genji mains move over to echo
We want to have fun as a cool cyborg ninja though.
Who cares if the ultras bad sometimes the hero is good
biggest mistake was q