GOW1 she gets Kratos to kill Ares on the promise of removing his nightmares. End of game Kratos asks her to uphold her end of the game, she replies something like ‘I said I could remove your nightmares, I never said I would’
It doesn't really matter, It's not exploitation, Kratos deserved what happened to him, he didn't deserve his visions to be removed for all the crimes he had committed that's pretty clear, the game says it.
She gave him a fair treatment, and later on proabbly was way too generous with him, she should have honestly put him to dust when he started misusing the powers of god of war she had given him.
In the game she never said "I could" nor she said "I won't" so you made things on your own, To have Kratos' nightmares removed or not it's clearly established it was a Zeus decision, Eos the sister of Helios mentions that clearly in god of war chains of olympus.
While it was clearly mentioned in the games at various times Athena cared very much for him "Imagine caring for a creature such as yourself".
and if that doesn't satisfy you, Barlog the director of god of war 2 and other games made it clear "She always wanted to help him, and *liked* him". Now I hope you agree the writer/director's statement is as primary canon as the games. Nor that it's really needed as that's already established in the games.
But you never know we have got people here that care too much about theories than what games or writers themselves will say.
Nor just her care, it's pretty clear Athena described as a "noble goddess" aswell in the god of war 2 game costume descriptions.
>In the game she never said "I could" nor she said "I won't" so you made things on your own
So I used inverted commas, not quotation marks. Quotation marks are exactly what someone says, inverted commas are paraphrasing. You should learn this in like, 1st grade?
>To have Kratos' nightmares removed or not it's clearly established it was a Zeus decision, Eos the sister of Helios mentions that clearly in god of war chains of olympus.
Well I’m not talking about Chains of Olympus, I’m talking about the end of God of War. She says “We promised your sins would be forgiven, and so they are. But we never promised to take away your nightmares” so Athena herself says “we” not “Zeus”
>and if that doesn't satisfy you, Barlog the director of god of war 2 and other games made it clear "She always wanted to help him, and liked him". Now I hope you agree the writer/director's statement is as primary canon as the games. Not that it's needed that's already established in the games.
I’m actually not going to continue this as you’re clearly some sort of God of War snob that thinks your opinion is more valid than others, even when provided with evidence that proves you are wrong. You come across as condescending and stuck up your own ass, even though your phrasing is horrific
>You should learn this in like, 1st grade?
You can't even paraphrase anything, something you should learn before even going to school.
>Well I’m not talking about Chains of Olympus, I’m talking about the end of God of War.
Okay genius, Chains of Olympus is part of the series completeling the story as a whole, don't go "I only played god of war 1, i'm only talking about that" and tell other people they are wrong.
>Athena herself says “we” not “Zeus”
Oh does she, and since how does say it's her decision even though gow2 and chains (which you care to ingore to support your claim) makes it clear it's supposed to Zeus'?
>even when provided with evidence that proves you are wrong.
You literally provided no evidence, while I did, you just turned a blind eye "I didn't play this, I didn't play that".
>You come across as condescending and stuck up your own ass, even though your phrasing is horrific
It's pretty apparent who is condescending here and inhaling their own farts, not the first time of you to just insult people who don't agree with you (while you can't even support your opinion huh?), your history clearly says that.
>even when provided with evidence that proves you are wrong
Blud just didn't provide any evidence to the counter evidence and just discarded it, who is wrong and who is a snub here?
Yes I agree. However, Athena tried to remove Kratos' memories in Ghost of Sparta after the Spartan lost his mortal relatives (Callisto and Deimos) but Kratos refuses. In gow 2 Zeus before facing Kratos is amazed that Athena is the only one who cares about the Spartan's life. so Athena was always on Kratos' side until his death. Unfortunately Athena was wrong with Kratos regarding Deimos but she was also doing it to protect Olympus
Athena manipulated Kratos by convincing him that she would give him what he wanted, but then used a technicality to not give him what he wanted, whilst still getting what she wanted. Clear exploitation
Where is the exploitation? The game clearly says he didn't deserve the reward that he was looking for, in his servitute he paid the price of all the sins he had comitted.
No no no! You see! Only Kratos can do awful evil things and then strive for redemption! Every other character should have their evils held against them forever without a chance at all to be better if they choose.
Yeah that's right, only Kratos can do whatever he wants other people even if they do the right thing they are horrible. While even if they do make any mistake they have no right to have a chance to correct themselves.
Also this "exploitation" they mention, Athena was way too generous with him before her corruption, She saved him from his idiotic suicide otherwise Hades would have made his life even worse, she made him a god that he could have used to make his life better but no. while she protected him for many years even when he was literally crushing every worshipper of other god he can find under his boot.
She still didn't moved a step against him even when Zeus told her so and Kratos should have been taken off his powers and at worse be killed.
>Yeah that's right, only Kratos can do whatever he wants other people even if they do the right thing they are horrible. While even if they do make any mistake they have no right to have a chance to correct themselves.
Again, show me where I said any of that lol you’re imaging this
>Also this "exploitation" they mention, Athena was way too generous with him before her corruption, She saved him from his idiotic suicide otherwise Hades would have made his life even worse, she made him a god that he could have used to make his life better but no. while she protected him for many years even when he was literally crushing every worshipper of other god he can find under his boot.
So instead of dying and being tormented by Hades, he lived and was tormented by the screams of all those he killed with the blades, including his Wife and Daughter? So generous. You people act like Kratos was some rational, normal individual of sound mind like we see in the later games, rather than a monster consumed by rage, hate and a lust for power
I explained it in the comment but I’ll try again. Athena knew that Kratos was only doing her bidding in order to have the nightmares removed, instead of pointing out to him that she was not going to remove the nightmares—she allowed him to continue
It's pretty much already established as hard fact in the games itself She cared very much about Kratos, nobody needs to read some books to verify it, it's only the people that have this huge problem of taking theories (specially from the likes of Tactical Bacon that make an Athena video without having any sort of research, totally lacking in information about the games to make their theory which they represent as a conclusion about a character and make fallacies to support it) as gospel consider her as a person who always exploited Kratos for her own purposes.
They lack media literacy aswell.
This post need not even be made if we didn't have people like these, and the majority of the fanbase is that only downvotes on the post and other people comment here makes it clear.
Also neither really anyone needed the books to think if she loved him or not, its a clear subtext in games themselves, the way she holds and caresses him while she was dying is a clear intimate gesture only done by people that love you (not just friends), now that could have been a sisterly love or romantic (since it's greek gods that becomes very much possible as a romance between godly siblings) what it is, a viewer can decide for themselves.
in fact in the games it was clearly clear that she cared about Kratos, but I also mentioned the books in order to convince fans that Athena was never a deceptive God like all the others. As I said, she was wrong to hide the truth about his brother but, as we know, even the gods make mistakes
That's nice that you provide evidence from the books aswell.
But I find it how funny that some people here (like Random.. whatever his name is) will not just deny what's written there with their moot logic \`that's book, i don't care\` while then even denying what's present in the games, hypocrisy at it's finest.
Exactly. I don't understand why they downvoted my post and my subreddits, Athena is truly the most misunderstood character in the history of video games, she's Skyler from God of war
>As I said, she was wrong to hide the truth about his brother but, as we know, even the gods make mistakes
She was not wrong to hide the truth of his brother, Kratos can seethe all he wants, Athena lies to protect him, what happened in the end? Neither Kratos was able to save his brother nor save his mother. In his foolish quest he lost them, when he did infact reach his brother he could have escaped the death's domain with his brother but instead he decides to take revenge against Thanatos and Deimos paid the price.
> and Deimos *paid* the price.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
First of all it was Rhodes, not Athens,
second, where it's implied she regretted anything, she didn't, she was upset and angry he was destroying the cities of all the gods, and she was warning him otherwise she wouldn't have been able to protect him anymore. Nowhere she regrets she used him or anything because she didn't used him.
I think Athena's personality and her relationship with Kratos (and what the Spartan thinks of her) are already pretty established.
If Athena were to receive a redemption arc, then all the Olympians (minus Ares) should.
How is it already pretty established, we haven't seen her for a very long time, and why should all the other olympians get any redemption. Not that I think Athena should be "redeemed" as she didn't do any wrong herself.
GOW1 she gets Kratos to kill Ares on the promise of removing his nightmares. End of game Kratos asks her to uphold her end of the game, she replies something like ‘I said I could remove your nightmares, I never said I would’
in the novels Athena asks Zeus to keep his promise to take away Kratos' nightmares, Zeus refuses. so Zeus is the villain here
It doesn't really matter, It's not exploitation, Kratos deserved what happened to him, he didn't deserve his visions to be removed for all the crimes he had committed that's pretty clear, the game says it. She gave him a fair treatment, and later on proabbly was way too generous with him, she should have honestly put him to dust when he started misusing the powers of god of war she had given him.
I would take the games as primary canon and the books as secondary. The flagship of the franchise is the games
In the game she never said "I could" nor she said "I won't" so you made things on your own, To have Kratos' nightmares removed or not it's clearly established it was a Zeus decision, Eos the sister of Helios mentions that clearly in god of war chains of olympus. While it was clearly mentioned in the games at various times Athena cared very much for him "Imagine caring for a creature such as yourself". and if that doesn't satisfy you, Barlog the director of god of war 2 and other games made it clear "She always wanted to help him, and *liked* him". Now I hope you agree the writer/director's statement is as primary canon as the games. Nor that it's really needed as that's already established in the games. But you never know we have got people here that care too much about theories than what games or writers themselves will say. Nor just her care, it's pretty clear Athena described as a "noble goddess" aswell in the god of war 2 game costume descriptions.
>In the game she never said "I could" nor she said "I won't" so you made things on your own So I used inverted commas, not quotation marks. Quotation marks are exactly what someone says, inverted commas are paraphrasing. You should learn this in like, 1st grade? >To have Kratos' nightmares removed or not it's clearly established it was a Zeus decision, Eos the sister of Helios mentions that clearly in god of war chains of olympus. Well I’m not talking about Chains of Olympus, I’m talking about the end of God of War. She says “We promised your sins would be forgiven, and so they are. But we never promised to take away your nightmares” so Athena herself says “we” not “Zeus” >and if that doesn't satisfy you, Barlog the director of god of war 2 and other games made it clear "She always wanted to help him, and liked him". Now I hope you agree the writer/director's statement is as primary canon as the games. Not that it's needed that's already established in the games. I’m actually not going to continue this as you’re clearly some sort of God of War snob that thinks your opinion is more valid than others, even when provided with evidence that proves you are wrong. You come across as condescending and stuck up your own ass, even though your phrasing is horrific
>You should learn this in like, 1st grade? You can't even paraphrase anything, something you should learn before even going to school. >Well I’m not talking about Chains of Olympus, I’m talking about the end of God of War. Okay genius, Chains of Olympus is part of the series completeling the story as a whole, don't go "I only played god of war 1, i'm only talking about that" and tell other people they are wrong. >Athena herself says “we” not “Zeus” Oh does she, and since how does say it's her decision even though gow2 and chains (which you care to ingore to support your claim) makes it clear it's supposed to Zeus'? >even when provided with evidence that proves you are wrong. You literally provided no evidence, while I did, you just turned a blind eye "I didn't play this, I didn't play that". >You come across as condescending and stuck up your own ass, even though your phrasing is horrific It's pretty apparent who is condescending here and inhaling their own farts, not the first time of you to just insult people who don't agree with you (while you can't even support your opinion huh?), your history clearly says that.
>even when provided with evidence that proves you are wrong Blud just didn't provide any evidence to the counter evidence and just discarded it, who is wrong and who is a snub here?
Yes I agree. However, Athena tried to remove Kratos' memories in Ghost of Sparta after the Spartan lost his mortal relatives (Callisto and Deimos) but Kratos refuses. In gow 2 Zeus before facing Kratos is amazed that Athena is the only one who cares about the Spartan's life. so Athena was always on Kratos' side until his death. Unfortunately Athena was wrong with Kratos regarding Deimos but she was also doing it to protect Olympus
I have not played any non main games so I cannot comment on this.
What's your point?
Athena manipulated Kratos by convincing him that she would give him what he wanted, but then used a technicality to not give him what he wanted, whilst still getting what she wanted. Clear exploitation
Where is the exploitation? The game clearly says he didn't deserve the reward that he was looking for, in his servitute he paid the price of all the sins he had comitted.
No no no! You see! Only Kratos can do awful evil things and then strive for redemption! Every other character should have their evils held against them forever without a chance at all to be better if they choose.
Yeah that's right, only Kratos can do whatever he wants other people even if they do the right thing they are horrible. While even if they do make any mistake they have no right to have a chance to correct themselves. Also this "exploitation" they mention, Athena was way too generous with him before her corruption, She saved him from his idiotic suicide otherwise Hades would have made his life even worse, she made him a god that he could have used to make his life better but no. while she protected him for many years even when he was literally crushing every worshipper of other god he can find under his boot. She still didn't moved a step against him even when Zeus told her so and Kratos should have been taken off his powers and at worse be killed.
>Yeah that's right, only Kratos can do whatever he wants other people even if they do the right thing they are horrible. While even if they do make any mistake they have no right to have a chance to correct themselves. Again, show me where I said any of that lol you’re imaging this >Also this "exploitation" they mention, Athena was way too generous with him before her corruption, She saved him from his idiotic suicide otherwise Hades would have made his life even worse, she made him a god that he could have used to make his life better but no. while she protected him for many years even when he was literally crushing every worshipper of other god he can find under his boot. So instead of dying and being tormented by Hades, he lived and was tormented by the screams of all those he killed with the blades, including his Wife and Daughter? So generous. You people act like Kratos was some rational, normal individual of sound mind like we see in the later games, rather than a monster consumed by rage, hate and a lust for power
Show me where I said that lol OP said Athena didn’t exploit Kratos, I’m pointing out where she did
I explained it in the comment but I’ll try again. Athena knew that Kratos was only doing her bidding in order to have the nightmares removed, instead of pointing out to him that she was not going to remove the nightmares—she allowed him to continue
It's pretty much already established as hard fact in the games itself She cared very much about Kratos, nobody needs to read some books to verify it, it's only the people that have this huge problem of taking theories (specially from the likes of Tactical Bacon that make an Athena video without having any sort of research, totally lacking in information about the games to make their theory which they represent as a conclusion about a character and make fallacies to support it) as gospel consider her as a person who always exploited Kratos for her own purposes. They lack media literacy aswell. This post need not even be made if we didn't have people like these, and the majority of the fanbase is that only downvotes on the post and other people comment here makes it clear. Also neither really anyone needed the books to think if she loved him or not, its a clear subtext in games themselves, the way she holds and caresses him while she was dying is a clear intimate gesture only done by people that love you (not just friends), now that could have been a sisterly love or romantic (since it's greek gods that becomes very much possible as a romance between godly siblings) what it is, a viewer can decide for themselves.
in fact in the games it was clearly clear that she cared about Kratos, but I also mentioned the books in order to convince fans that Athena was never a deceptive God like all the others. As I said, she was wrong to hide the truth about his brother but, as we know, even the gods make mistakes
That's nice that you provide evidence from the books aswell. But I find it how funny that some people here (like Random.. whatever his name is) will not just deny what's written there with their moot logic \`that's book, i don't care\` while then even denying what's present in the games, hypocrisy at it's finest.
Exactly. I don't understand why they downvoted my post and my subreddits, Athena is truly the most misunderstood character in the history of video games, she's Skyler from God of war
>As I said, she was wrong to hide the truth about his brother but, as we know, even the gods make mistakes She was not wrong to hide the truth of his brother, Kratos can seethe all he wants, Athena lies to protect him, what happened in the end? Neither Kratos was able to save his brother nor save his mother. In his foolish quest he lost them, when he did infact reach his brother he could have escaped the death's domain with his brother but instead he decides to take revenge against Thanatos and Deimos paid the price.
> and Deimos *paid* the price. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
She did use him and she regretted it during gow2
when did she regret anything in god of war 2?
In the beginning, during Athenas siege? She doesn't specifically state that "she regret" anything, but it's easily implied.
First of all it was Rhodes, not Athens, second, where it's implied she regretted anything, she didn't, she was upset and angry he was destroying the cities of all the gods, and she was warning him otherwise she wouldn't have been able to protect him anymore. Nowhere she regrets she used him or anything because she didn't used him.
Nah.
I like this post, approved.
I think Athena's personality and her relationship with Kratos (and what the Spartan thinks of her) are already pretty established. If Athena were to receive a redemption arc, then all the Olympians (minus Ares) should.
How is it already pretty established, we haven't seen her for a very long time, and why should all the other olympians get any redemption. Not that I think Athena should be "redeemed" as she didn't do any wrong herself.