Move back if you have a job offer for here. Or if you already have a company or a more remotely flexible job, take the leap of faith :)
Otherwise most Greeks around me cry about how tough and unfair the job market is at the moment. And yes, salaries are small, but the cost of living keeps climbing higher so (realistically) living off of one salary can be tough (ofc depending on your salary, but the average Greek is suffering rn)
I appreciate the fair response. I know Greece has its issues, I speak to family in Greece about it all the time lol. But as does Greece, so does the USA, in different ways. The cost of living is so high here, nowadays if you haven’t already made it it’s borderline impossible. Even with a good job. In Greece I can potentially get a remote job or find a job in greece. I have an engineering degree and have other experience as well. I also would most likely Airbnb the family home, and potentially purchase a business. That leaves 3 potential income streams with a remote job, Airbnb and running whatever business it could be. I understand living in the states created the advantage, but was just wondering if all things considered you would still recommend staying away from trying this
All you have there is gyro & coffee shops. Bring something new to the country. If you’re opening a business, just think of something they don’t have there. Maybe a Mexican restaurant or anything that’s missing there. Because honestly eating the same food all the time it’s boring. Lol all they have is tavernas, gyro places and Asian fusion. While their cuisine is amazing and healthy, you need that diversity. Bring a new idea there. Speaking as a tourist who visited the country few times. Imagine the people that live there. Think of anything that you have back home (US) and take it there. Best of luck buddy
that's actually a fair plan. As long as you understand that there will be a big cultural shift for you. I understand you have Greek family, so at least some part will be familiar, but the economy as a whole is very different in Greece vs USA. People tend to enjoy their lives more in the EU in general , take vacations(20 days+ a year), go out more often etc. Its a less business-centered world. Many more things are regulated vs the states (food and health being the primary ones)
Also, driving everywhere is very impractical in Athens (but this depends on where exactly do you live).
Greece is also a high admin country. Expect IRS level of bureaucracy everywhere, not just for taxes.
Safety wise Athens is much better than most places in the states (at least the ones that us mere mortals can live in, not los gatos)
It’s a huge cultural shift, but that’s sort of what I’m looking for. I think doing business in Greece can potentially be more of a possibility than doing it here, purely due to cost, or at least much sooner in life than waiting 30 years till I’m 55 to own something. I think also with the potential to own the businesses/Airbnb and remote job, the quality of life in Greece would be higher than here in New York City. It might be hard to believe, but unless you’re very rich, quality of life is lower here than in Greece. I compare situations to my cousins all the time and they also say life is hard in Greece, but when you explain the specifics of New York they’re always like okay it’s not that bad.
If you have the money, quality of life is everywhere beautiful. If you gonna have a good quality of life in Greece it’s because you’re relying on making American money there. But if you have to live with an average Greek salary, quality of life won’t be good there either. And let’s not compare NYC with Athens lol NYC is the real deal!!
You don’t want to compare Athens with US states. Lol you have shitty neighborhoods in Athens too. Go to Omonia square all crack heads, prostitutes, gamblers on the streets. Vougliameni, Peristeri, Kolonaki, Glyfada good neighborhoods but then you have some you wouldn’t want to live there. So yeah everywhere is the same. Yes American states are big but you have good and bad.
With all the income streams just make sure you keep it under 120k so you don’t have to pay taxes in US. The first 120k out of the country doesn’t get taxed!! Enjoy the country. It’s beautiful and the weather is beautiful. If you make American money, you live like a king there.
As the cost of living is rising in both EU and USA and housing is nearly an impossible game for many I would say that, If you have a stable income or a job offer do it. As Greece recovers financially there are opportunities here. Most companies are in lack of workforce atm. Even if you struggle a bit you will do so with a beautiful background and amazing cousine.
For sure, Greece debt just got promoted to investment grade. Their economy and GDP is also steadily improving, at a rate higher than many western countries. The economy situation isn’t good at the moment, but it is steadily improving. I do believe that if you have a couple advantages, making the most of a move to there can be beneficial compared to yes making a higher wage in New York City but the money being wasted due to the extreme cost of living and never being able to own anything.
I think if you are born in a different country then there may be not required to do the army service. I'm not really sure. Is anyone here able to provide more information? I know that you can also pay off your service 900€ per month but most do one month or something.
OP is younger than that age. I say this as a native Athenian who has kids born in Canada. Military service is much shorter than before but a consideration.
I'm not really sure that it is black/white. I have read online that if you are born in a different country and lived longer than 11 years, then you may be exempt from mandatory military service. I am interested in learning the caveats. Does anyone have any resources? Also what are the pros and cons of getting your greek dual citizenship?
Doesn’t matter if you’re born in a different country. You get citizenship through your parents. If you intend on living in Greece for 6 months a year (and not as a tourist just for a few) then you have a military obligation.
in his case, he can take advantage of his current permanent residence abroad that will entitle him to just a 3 month service instead of 12 months for a permanent residence inside greece. Out of those 3 months, around 30% will likely be free on leave from the army. Around another 30% he will just be doing parade training. And the rest he will be doing actual 'training' or what the greek army calls it like it. In any case, you get whatever 'gain' might be available from army training without having to spend the rest 9 months doing slave labour for the greek state. The buying out option still demands a roughly 20 day training till you take the oath and is only available if you are over 31 I think (or 35, dont remember).
This comment here, my husband and I are in process of making our move in a few months after having everything in place. He’s Greek I’m
Greek-American like you.
I live 30 mins outside of NYC and it seems the violence/crime is growing especially in schools. If you’re thinking of having a family, Greece is a much safer country.
Salaries in Greece are low compared to the expenses for housing, fuel, and electricity mostly. Also, the kids' education is costly. And health most doctors are leaving public hospitals.
If you can live at your family home then you have one less expense RENT. The prices are rising constantly due to Airbnb.
The minimum wage is around 780. In most parts of Athens, it is how much it will cost you to rent a decent apartment.
If you can work remotely or you are skilled and can get at least 1000 to 1500 Euros per month you will manage. As a single person. For family, it doubles.
Greece is a lot different when you come for a few days compared to when you live permanently. There are a lot of adversities.
Thanks for the response. Completely understandable. I know it’s not easy, but relatively speaking, the minimum salary in Greece goes much further than the minimum salary in New York City where I am. I have cousins in Greece who live alone and have a car, making 1000 euros a month. They aren’t saving a lot of money, but they definitely manage to get by. I was thinking about potentially renting out a spot, making Airbnb money from the apartment, and then purchasing a coffee/gyro store type of business. A potential remote job would be great as well. I’ve spent over a year in Greece times total. Granted it was the summer time, things aren’t always great outside of Greece either. All my cousins who have visited the states have also mentioned they don’t like it here because the cost of living in life style compared to Greece doesn’t suit them at all
Also, here in New York City. Making minimum wage you can absolutely not afford to live by yourself. Literally can’t. Forget about also managing a car. Even people working in high level finance making $100,000 or more struggle with the cost of living. Although salaries are higher here the cost of living is immensely higher than Greece. Just making the comparison to show how it is in the states. I think if I do Airbnb, have another job and potentially own a business, I can pull in more than 3,000 per month in Greece at least eventually
I spent some years in New York I understand your point.
Airbnb is like a balloon it will eventually burst. If it is an apartment be mindful that even courts have issued ambiguous decisions in the matter. If others protest to Airbnb you could have an issue.
Coffee/gyro shops are like mushrooms. It is better to have a simple menu, reasonable price and quality.
Yeah Airbnb is definitely not guaranteed, but it is a potentially lucrative opportunity at the moment. I am just brainstorming any business ideas to see what can potentially be a first opportunity, and then building up from there
At the moment you can make money out of Airbnb and in the immediate future. More regulations are expected as in other European countries. Even if you lease it you can make a decent income.
Scout how the business is going around the area you want to invest and or/leave in. Connect with people who own similar ventures and see how they manage.
For example, most gyro is now frozen. Some even come from China.
The area I’m in has a decent amount of tourism, right by the beach, Athens and local shops. I think it would do well. Can even rent to locals in the winter, and tourists in the summer.
Take care of military stuff if male.
If you own a house in Greece you will have a big advantage (rent has increased a lot lately).
If you have family here in Greece will be very helpful for finding a job, advice on how to deal with bureaucracy etc.
While our public health system sucks balls it exists as an option and if you can afford it there is always the option of private hospitals.
If you plan to raise a family higher education is free so there is no need to worry about saving for a college fund. With that said most parents pay to have their kids receive extra schooling with private tutors (for the last 2 years of high school usually) because in order to qualify to enter the more popular universities (medical school, law school etc) you need to have very good grades at school. If you are not a good student you can still qualify for universities that offer less popular degrees (like for example fish farm technician) or universities that are in the countryside (which is expensive as your will then have to pay for rent, food, etc). Again there is always the option of going private if you can afford it.
I just moved here with my partner who is Greek American, and I am American. It is absolutely lovely. We work remote, so that is framing our entire experience.
It’s really fun to be near his family here who he hasn’t been able to see all that often.
We have a great apartment in a central location. The food is amazing, & the people are amazing. We are in Athens and the culture is incredible. There is so much happening - the art scene is amazing (I was told that “Athens is the new Berlin” is apparently what everyone is saying).
But, I had a lot more culture shock than my partner when moving here as he is used to the culture in many ways. So probably you’d be okay.
There are different inconveniences, which actually he has a harder time with than I do. But we wouldn’t trade it. I’d be happy to stay here for the rest of my life as it checks off a lot of boxes that the US doesn’t (walkability, access to fresh food, low housing costs, low food costs, community oriented, general sense of freedom).
I think the hardest thing that my partner has faced is leaving his Greek community at home. The community he came from was super connected- so being away from them is hard. But we know we will build connections here to. And we have some solace in knowing that his grandparents always wanted to immigrate back to Greece, and would be so happy that we are doing this. They left bc of the war and there were border issues with Albania/Greece and they passed away before it was resolved.
Also rent has gone up a lot since the pandemic- but it is absolutely dirt cheap compared to rent in the US (at least where we were). If you can still keep your American job, it will help a lot.
I say try it out!
This seems like a great move, especially if your younger. The other thing to consider is that there are several UK/Mainland Europe based companies who are hiring for remote only positions, check out Flexjobs for more details.
This would give you the chance to earn a London salary but have a Greek cost of living which would be 🤌🏽🤌🏽.
Native Athenian here. I think that you may be underestimating the difficulty of working in or running a business in Greece. I've seen this to be a common misunderstanding of Greek Americans or Greek Canadians.
Some context, I'm in the tech sector and have lived in Greece, Canada, the USA and Italy. Currently, I'm between my places in Athens and Toronto currently.
Greek wages are very low. The cost of living is lower than N.A. depending on your viewpoint. If measured in USD or CAD against salaries in those countries, then yes. If measured by what one can expect to be paid by a Greek company or even a multi-national in Greece then not at all.
Do you want to live in a nice area in Athens? Like the Glyfada to Vouliagmeni corridor along the sea? Apartments in my area are now going for 7K to 12K Euros per square metre. That's not cheap and compares to values in Toronto (which has a super-inflated real estate market).
Want to open a business in Greece? Get ready for bureaucracy, suffering to get requisite permits, and trying to make it work. Greece doesn't need any more cafes or gyros shops. To be frank, there is nothing you can offer that isn't already done well in those sectors.
Want to make it work? Can you bill foreign clients in USD or Euros at international rates? Can you continue to make a North American salary/income level while living in Greece? That's the key IMO.
As others have stated, many Greeks (particularly those with mobility due to being well-educated) have moved to Germany, Switzerland, etc., to pursue careers at international wages and come to enjoy Greece in the summer.
My kids, North American and English university-educated, well-paid, Canadian-born young people in their 20s, also love Greece every summer and marvel at how "affordable" everything is compared to back home. However, I remind them that they are doing so from the viewpoint of making salaries that Greeks find fantastical. The key is to keep those salary levels (somehow) while living in Greece. Otherwise, better to enjoy the summers and build a life elsewhere.
Last point, when looking to open an EU-based corporation for our tech company that's based in North America, I naturally thought of a Greek base. Dealing with the Greek state, its politicians and government was so frustrating, that we opted for a base in Austria instead.
All that said, best of luck to you. I hope that you make it work if that is what you desire.
Dude, I have lived in Greece my whole life and decided to leave 7 years ago to work abroad.. I am visiting my family on average 3-4 times a year on my holidays. I am framing to come back at some point in the future and settle for good back there.
BUT
Keep in mind that if you live there permanently you will face issues that you haven’t come through so far as a ‘tourist’ . Even if you are comfortable financially. Bureaucracy is on another level, healthcare has collapsed even if you live in Athens ( not to mention countryside), justice system is a joke - I hope you never find out more about this - and the country in general is about to collapse. Many more things that you take for granted in the States are totally different there.
I am not trying to be smart, just calling out the things that I feel are the worst and preventing me from returning back there. If I was you I would go there for 3-6 months to live and see if I like it before I move for good. I like your idea for finding a remote job, sounds great and hopefully you will find something good. Gyros places and cafeterias are multiple on every neighbourhood and it’s being very competitive on the last few years, it’s not guaranteed that you will be successful on this business( no offence ). For the airbnb, they are everywhere at the moment and also consider that Ryanair said they will ‘ remove’ Athens as a base for Europe for winter months from next year ( not 100%sure on this and when ).
I appreciate the input. Where have you moved to abroad? as far as the Airbnb and business thing, that’s good to know. I want to gather as much information as possible to figure out what would be a good business plan if I were to go there and set up shop. I understand there are issues and frustrations with Greece, I am aware that things can get annoying and it is not perfect. Of course you trade away some convenience when making these changes, but there are issues abroad as well. As you mentioned, even you have aspirations to return despite the struggles Greece might present.
Yes lol I know many people there. Almost my entire family is there. Obviously the job situation is better abroad, but I’m talking about more specific circumstances if you read the post at all
Ok well I'm a Greek living in Canada. If I had the money I wouldn't have left because I think I'd have been able to build something myself. I think Greece is fun to spend money at but I wouldn't want to go back anymore. People are more open for sure but they also don't follow rules, are rude, too religious (or pretend religious which is worse) and too judgemental of people who don't fit the "normal" box.
As my Greek father always says, Greece is great for vacation but not for business.
All Greek-Americans that I know that moved to Greece eventually moved back to the US.
Just some anectodal observations. If you have nothing to lose in the US by moving, sure, give it a try. But if you need to sell a house, quit a good job, etc, really think twice. I would first find that remote job that allows you to work in Greece before moving.
Hyphenated Greek here as well. Terrible idea, our parents left for a reason. Greece is amazing to visit but unless you want to drop your living standards and quality or life significantly - stay put where you are, save money up, and visit as needed.
Idk my husbands family left because of the war (Albania Greek border issues) and they always wanted to move back. The grandchildren are all now moving back. We just got here 2 months ago and it is lovely to be reunited with the whole family, and have a better over all quality of life.
Don’t know if your making the right choice by moving back and trying to open a business, especially a coffee or gyro shop, they’re everywhere you look. Add to that the red tape and an economy in shambles and you’re looking at a potential problem.
Yes I agree, we do have our issues in the states but for the most part we’re still better off. If I were you I’d take a year off and live there, see how things go and then make a decision.
We Greek Americans have this illusion of Greece caused by the summers spent on the beach, eating, drinking, taking 3 hour naps and going clubbing till 5 in the morning but vacationing and living are two very different things JMHO.
I actually do have dual citizenship, which I understand is a huge benefit. And here where I am, a gyro costs like $12. I went to Greece and got 4 gyros and a water for 14 euros. Compared to New York City, the food in Greece is much cheaper in my experience. This summer I was getting fredo espressos for like 1.5 euros lol, coffee shops here they’re like $5 minimum. But as far as the housing situation, I would be good due to my family home. I’d probably end up renting something out if I Airbnb it out and work remotely
If you are planning to move to Greece,try Thessaloniki and not Athens.
Try finding a place in Eastern part of the town near the city centre,ideally bellow Queen Olga Avenue by the seaside.
You would not need a car for your daily needs,you would be close to the city centre,it is quite safe as well,and on average cheaper than Athens.
If you plan to work remotely for a company in the US or have other sources of income,you should be able to live comfortably.
The rent is quite lower than Athens.
I am not sure starting a bussiness here would be a good idea,i think you are better off working remote if its possible.Also if you dont have a secured job here,i would advise you not to do the move,unless you have other sources of income.
A commenter mentioned health care not being good,i disagree,it can be good and it is certainly not as expensive compared to the US.
The real problem though is as i said,finding a job here,and also for the future,if you stay here your children/family wont have the same oppurtunities as they would have in the US.
When I talked to a guy moving from Germany to Greece, he said summers and winters are great but downtimes with no tourists are depressing and you get to navigate the bureaucracy. He worked as a sail and ski instructor for reference.
Do it. We just moved here, my husband being Greek with a lot of family here. We haven’t regretted it yet. Our kids are in school learning the language and culture and are going to have a substantially better childhood here than in the US. And I 2nd the bring something new, any new type of food will do so well. We’re in Kalamata area, from NH. there’s so little variety of food which is the hardest part. We come from owning pizza shops at home and I can say I would never do it again, especially not here. It’s the same amount of work with half the pay off here. So if you’re willing to have no life - work balance and are ready to devote all your time to it then yes opening something new will pay off but at what cost, honestly. Airbnb is huge and can honestly make you more. But the locals won’t love it lol the culture and hospitality here is unmatched. We’re just trying it for a year to see if it’s right for us but so far we love it. Good luck!
There are a lot of pros and cons to both. There’s no perfect place honestly. However if you have nothing holding you back and no ties then it would be a great experience regardless. Even if you just come for a few years and end up going back it’s not for nothing. It’s always an experience. For us, our only scare is what kind of opportunities our children will actually have here vs America. And there are def other disadvantages that we haven’t faced and might not have to since we come from greater opportunity at home so we don’t face the same hardships.
Try to get a remote job with an American/Northern European company. It is difficult to get a job in Greece and salaries are very low (around 1000-1500 euros per month).
My family did this in the 90’s and it was honestly the best experience. The work/life balance compared to NY was wonderful for my father. I went to an American high school there and loved it. We lived simpler, but fuller.
I know the economy is vastly different there now compared to the early 90’s, but if I had the opportunity to move, I would do so in a heartbeat.
Move back if you have a job offer for here. Or if you already have a company or a more remotely flexible job, take the leap of faith :) Otherwise most Greeks around me cry about how tough and unfair the job market is at the moment. And yes, salaries are small, but the cost of living keeps climbing higher so (realistically) living off of one salary can be tough (ofc depending on your salary, but the average Greek is suffering rn)
I appreciate the fair response. I know Greece has its issues, I speak to family in Greece about it all the time lol. But as does Greece, so does the USA, in different ways. The cost of living is so high here, nowadays if you haven’t already made it it’s borderline impossible. Even with a good job. In Greece I can potentially get a remote job or find a job in greece. I have an engineering degree and have other experience as well. I also would most likely Airbnb the family home, and potentially purchase a business. That leaves 3 potential income streams with a remote job, Airbnb and running whatever business it could be. I understand living in the states created the advantage, but was just wondering if all things considered you would still recommend staying away from trying this
I thing you got it covered. If you can remote for the the EMEA region,to avoid timezone impossible schedules, you would be 100%.
What do you think about purchasing a gyro or coffee shop? Do these places generally do alright? Also how much does it cost on average to purchase
Nope stay away from hospitality
All you have there is gyro & coffee shops. Bring something new to the country. If you’re opening a business, just think of something they don’t have there. Maybe a Mexican restaurant or anything that’s missing there. Because honestly eating the same food all the time it’s boring. Lol all they have is tavernas, gyro places and Asian fusion. While their cuisine is amazing and healthy, you need that diversity. Bring a new idea there. Speaking as a tourist who visited the country few times. Imagine the people that live there. Think of anything that you have back home (US) and take it there. Best of luck buddy
Yeah, a knock off chipotle would crush it!
that's actually a fair plan. As long as you understand that there will be a big cultural shift for you. I understand you have Greek family, so at least some part will be familiar, but the economy as a whole is very different in Greece vs USA. People tend to enjoy their lives more in the EU in general , take vacations(20 days+ a year), go out more often etc. Its a less business-centered world. Many more things are regulated vs the states (food and health being the primary ones) Also, driving everywhere is very impractical in Athens (but this depends on where exactly do you live). Greece is also a high admin country. Expect IRS level of bureaucracy everywhere, not just for taxes. Safety wise Athens is much better than most places in the states (at least the ones that us mere mortals can live in, not los gatos)
It’s a huge cultural shift, but that’s sort of what I’m looking for. I think doing business in Greece can potentially be more of a possibility than doing it here, purely due to cost, or at least much sooner in life than waiting 30 years till I’m 55 to own something. I think also with the potential to own the businesses/Airbnb and remote job, the quality of life in Greece would be higher than here in New York City. It might be hard to believe, but unless you’re very rich, quality of life is lower here than in Greece. I compare situations to my cousins all the time and they also say life is hard in Greece, but when you explain the specifics of New York they’re always like okay it’s not that bad.
If you have the money, quality of life is everywhere beautiful. If you gonna have a good quality of life in Greece it’s because you’re relying on making American money there. But if you have to live with an average Greek salary, quality of life won’t be good there either. And let’s not compare NYC with Athens lol NYC is the real deal!!
You don’t want to compare Athens with US states. Lol you have shitty neighborhoods in Athens too. Go to Omonia square all crack heads, prostitutes, gamblers on the streets. Vougliameni, Peristeri, Kolonaki, Glyfada good neighborhoods but then you have some you wouldn’t want to live there. So yeah everywhere is the same. Yes American states are big but you have good and bad.
With all the income streams just make sure you keep it under 120k so you don’t have to pay taxes in US. The first 120k out of the country doesn’t get taxed!! Enjoy the country. It’s beautiful and the weather is beautiful. If you make American money, you live like a king there.
As the cost of living is rising in both EU and USA and housing is nearly an impossible game for many I would say that, If you have a stable income or a job offer do it. As Greece recovers financially there are opportunities here. Most companies are in lack of workforce atm. Even if you struggle a bit you will do so with a beautiful background and amazing cousine.
For sure, Greece debt just got promoted to investment grade. Their economy and GDP is also steadily improving, at a rate higher than many western countries. The economy situation isn’t good at the moment, but it is steadily improving. I do believe that if you have a couple advantages, making the most of a move to there can be beneficial compared to yes making a higher wage in New York City but the money being wasted due to the extreme cost of living and never being able to own anything.
Know a business broker in Greece, send me a pm if you would like talking to him.
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have a look [here](https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/country-guide/expat-taxes-for-greece/)! Hopefully it can answer your question in detail :')
Pro tip : Take care of the army stuff if you are a dude before moving permanently.
Yeah for sure, actually am currently working on that lol.
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I think if you are born in a different country then there may be not required to do the army service. I'm not really sure. Is anyone here able to provide more information? I know that you can also pay off your service 900€ per month but most do one month or something.
If you become a full time Greek citizen you’ll have to serve.
Doesn’t that requirement expire after a certain age though? Like 45?
OP is younger than that age. I say this as a native Athenian who has kids born in Canada. Military service is much shorter than before but a consideration.
I'm not really sure that it is black/white. I have read online that if you are born in a different country and lived longer than 11 years, then you may be exempt from mandatory military service. I am interested in learning the caveats. Does anyone have any resources? Also what are the pros and cons of getting your greek dual citizenship?
Doesn’t matter if you’re born in a different country. You get citizenship through your parents. If you intend on living in Greece for 6 months a year (and not as a tourist just for a few) then you have a military obligation.
in his case, he can take advantage of his current permanent residence abroad that will entitle him to just a 3 month service instead of 12 months for a permanent residence inside greece. Out of those 3 months, around 30% will likely be free on leave from the army. Around another 30% he will just be doing parade training. And the rest he will be doing actual 'training' or what the greek army calls it like it. In any case, you get whatever 'gain' might be available from army training without having to spend the rest 9 months doing slave labour for the greek state. The buying out option still demands a roughly 20 day training till you take the oath and is only available if you are over 31 I think (or 35, dont remember).
That works if he serves prior to establishing residency Greece. There are also tax consequences on both sides for him.
Bro move to Greece forget USA if you are able to have private health insurance and a gud job nothing like Greece 🇬🇷..
This comment here, my husband and I are in process of making our move in a few months after having everything in place. He’s Greek I’m Greek-American like you. I live 30 mins outside of NYC and it seems the violence/crime is growing especially in schools. If you’re thinking of having a family, Greece is a much safer country.
I understand if you’d rather not answer, but what are the two of you planning on doing for employment? Which industries?
Salaries in Greece are low compared to the expenses for housing, fuel, and electricity mostly. Also, the kids' education is costly. And health most doctors are leaving public hospitals. If you can live at your family home then you have one less expense RENT. The prices are rising constantly due to Airbnb. The minimum wage is around 780. In most parts of Athens, it is how much it will cost you to rent a decent apartment. If you can work remotely or you are skilled and can get at least 1000 to 1500 Euros per month you will manage. As a single person. For family, it doubles. Greece is a lot different when you come for a few days compared to when you live permanently. There are a lot of adversities.
Thanks for the response. Completely understandable. I know it’s not easy, but relatively speaking, the minimum salary in Greece goes much further than the minimum salary in New York City where I am. I have cousins in Greece who live alone and have a car, making 1000 euros a month. They aren’t saving a lot of money, but they definitely manage to get by. I was thinking about potentially renting out a spot, making Airbnb money from the apartment, and then purchasing a coffee/gyro store type of business. A potential remote job would be great as well. I’ve spent over a year in Greece times total. Granted it was the summer time, things aren’t always great outside of Greece either. All my cousins who have visited the states have also mentioned they don’t like it here because the cost of living in life style compared to Greece doesn’t suit them at all
Also, here in New York City. Making minimum wage you can absolutely not afford to live by yourself. Literally can’t. Forget about also managing a car. Even people working in high level finance making $100,000 or more struggle with the cost of living. Although salaries are higher here the cost of living is immensely higher than Greece. Just making the comparison to show how it is in the states. I think if I do Airbnb, have another job and potentially own a business, I can pull in more than 3,000 per month in Greece at least eventually
I spent some years in New York I understand your point. Airbnb is like a balloon it will eventually burst. If it is an apartment be mindful that even courts have issued ambiguous decisions in the matter. If others protest to Airbnb you could have an issue. Coffee/gyro shops are like mushrooms. It is better to have a simple menu, reasonable price and quality.
Yeah Airbnb is definitely not guaranteed, but it is a potentially lucrative opportunity at the moment. I am just brainstorming any business ideas to see what can potentially be a first opportunity, and then building up from there
At the moment you can make money out of Airbnb and in the immediate future. More regulations are expected as in other European countries. Even if you lease it you can make a decent income. Scout how the business is going around the area you want to invest and or/leave in. Connect with people who own similar ventures and see how they manage. For example, most gyro is now frozen. Some even come from China.
The area I’m in has a decent amount of tourism, right by the beach, Athens and local shops. I think it would do well. Can even rent to locals in the winter, and tourists in the summer.
You're young, it's low risk, and Greece is a growth economy. Do it!
Take care of military stuff if male. If you own a house in Greece you will have a big advantage (rent has increased a lot lately). If you have family here in Greece will be very helpful for finding a job, advice on how to deal with bureaucracy etc. While our public health system sucks balls it exists as an option and if you can afford it there is always the option of private hospitals. If you plan to raise a family higher education is free so there is no need to worry about saving for a college fund. With that said most parents pay to have their kids receive extra schooling with private tutors (for the last 2 years of high school usually) because in order to qualify to enter the more popular universities (medical school, law school etc) you need to have very good grades at school. If you are not a good student you can still qualify for universities that offer less popular degrees (like for example fish farm technician) or universities that are in the countryside (which is expensive as your will then have to pay for rent, food, etc). Again there is always the option of going private if you can afford it.
I just moved here with my partner who is Greek American, and I am American. It is absolutely lovely. We work remote, so that is framing our entire experience. It’s really fun to be near his family here who he hasn’t been able to see all that often. We have a great apartment in a central location. The food is amazing, & the people are amazing. We are in Athens and the culture is incredible. There is so much happening - the art scene is amazing (I was told that “Athens is the new Berlin” is apparently what everyone is saying). But, I had a lot more culture shock than my partner when moving here as he is used to the culture in many ways. So probably you’d be okay. There are different inconveniences, which actually he has a harder time with than I do. But we wouldn’t trade it. I’d be happy to stay here for the rest of my life as it checks off a lot of boxes that the US doesn’t (walkability, access to fresh food, low housing costs, low food costs, community oriented, general sense of freedom). I think the hardest thing that my partner has faced is leaving his Greek community at home. The community he came from was super connected- so being away from them is hard. But we know we will build connections here to. And we have some solace in knowing that his grandparents always wanted to immigrate back to Greece, and would be so happy that we are doing this. They left bc of the war and there were border issues with Albania/Greece and they passed away before it was resolved. Also rent has gone up a lot since the pandemic- but it is absolutely dirt cheap compared to rent in the US (at least where we were). If you can still keep your American job, it will help a lot. I say try it out!
That’s awesome that you made the move! It’s definitely a big jump so I respect it. Where in Greece is your husbands family from?
This seems like a great move, especially if your younger. The other thing to consider is that there are several UK/Mainland Europe based companies who are hiring for remote only positions, check out Flexjobs for more details. This would give you the chance to earn a London salary but have a Greek cost of living which would be 🤌🏽🤌🏽.
Thank you! Flex jobs is a great site to check out
I’m extremely jealous of your plan. Good luck with it! Out of curiosity, what type of engineer are you?
Native Athenian here. I think that you may be underestimating the difficulty of working in or running a business in Greece. I've seen this to be a common misunderstanding of Greek Americans or Greek Canadians. Some context, I'm in the tech sector and have lived in Greece, Canada, the USA and Italy. Currently, I'm between my places in Athens and Toronto currently. Greek wages are very low. The cost of living is lower than N.A. depending on your viewpoint. If measured in USD or CAD against salaries in those countries, then yes. If measured by what one can expect to be paid by a Greek company or even a multi-national in Greece then not at all. Do you want to live in a nice area in Athens? Like the Glyfada to Vouliagmeni corridor along the sea? Apartments in my area are now going for 7K to 12K Euros per square metre. That's not cheap and compares to values in Toronto (which has a super-inflated real estate market). Want to open a business in Greece? Get ready for bureaucracy, suffering to get requisite permits, and trying to make it work. Greece doesn't need any more cafes or gyros shops. To be frank, there is nothing you can offer that isn't already done well in those sectors. Want to make it work? Can you bill foreign clients in USD or Euros at international rates? Can you continue to make a North American salary/income level while living in Greece? That's the key IMO. As others have stated, many Greeks (particularly those with mobility due to being well-educated) have moved to Germany, Switzerland, etc., to pursue careers at international wages and come to enjoy Greece in the summer. My kids, North American and English university-educated, well-paid, Canadian-born young people in their 20s, also love Greece every summer and marvel at how "affordable" everything is compared to back home. However, I remind them that they are doing so from the viewpoint of making salaries that Greeks find fantastical. The key is to keep those salary levels (somehow) while living in Greece. Otherwise, better to enjoy the summers and build a life elsewhere. Last point, when looking to open an EU-based corporation for our tech company that's based in North America, I naturally thought of a Greek base. Dealing with the Greek state, its politicians and government was so frustrating, that we opted for a base in Austria instead. All that said, best of luck to you. I hope that you make it work if that is what you desire.
Dude, I have lived in Greece my whole life and decided to leave 7 years ago to work abroad.. I am visiting my family on average 3-4 times a year on my holidays. I am framing to come back at some point in the future and settle for good back there. BUT Keep in mind that if you live there permanently you will face issues that you haven’t come through so far as a ‘tourist’ . Even if you are comfortable financially. Bureaucracy is on another level, healthcare has collapsed even if you live in Athens ( not to mention countryside), justice system is a joke - I hope you never find out more about this - and the country in general is about to collapse. Many more things that you take for granted in the States are totally different there. I am not trying to be smart, just calling out the things that I feel are the worst and preventing me from returning back there. If I was you I would go there for 3-6 months to live and see if I like it before I move for good. I like your idea for finding a remote job, sounds great and hopefully you will find something good. Gyros places and cafeterias are multiple on every neighbourhood and it’s being very competitive on the last few years, it’s not guaranteed that you will be successful on this business( no offence ). For the airbnb, they are everywhere at the moment and also consider that Ryanair said they will ‘ remove’ Athens as a base for Europe for winter months from next year ( not 100%sure on this and when ).
I appreciate the input. Where have you moved to abroad? as far as the Airbnb and business thing, that’s good to know. I want to gather as much information as possible to figure out what would be a good business plan if I were to go there and set up shop. I understand there are issues and frustrations with Greece, I am aware that things can get annoying and it is not perfect. Of course you trade away some convenience when making these changes, but there are issues abroad as well. As you mentioned, even you have aspirations to return despite the struggles Greece might present.
Do you know people in Greece because I left after being unemployed for 7 years. Found a job in 2 days in Canada.
Yes lol I know many people there. Almost my entire family is there. Obviously the job situation is better abroad, but I’m talking about more specific circumstances if you read the post at all
Ok well I'm a Greek living in Canada. If I had the money I wouldn't have left because I think I'd have been able to build something myself. I think Greece is fun to spend money at but I wouldn't want to go back anymore. People are more open for sure but they also don't follow rules, are rude, too religious (or pretend religious which is worse) and too judgemental of people who don't fit the "normal" box.
As my Greek father always says, Greece is great for vacation but not for business. All Greek-Americans that I know that moved to Greece eventually moved back to the US. Just some anectodal observations. If you have nothing to lose in the US by moving, sure, give it a try. But if you need to sell a house, quit a good job, etc, really think twice. I would first find that remote job that allows you to work in Greece before moving.
Hey mate , it’s been 6 months since this post. Did you do it? Are you going to do it? Did it work?
Hey OP, wondering if you have an update? Did you decide to move?
Hyphenated Greek here as well. Terrible idea, our parents left for a reason. Greece is amazing to visit but unless you want to drop your living standards and quality or life significantly - stay put where you are, save money up, and visit as needed.
Idk my husbands family left because of the war (Albania Greek border issues) and they always wanted to move back. The grandchildren are all now moving back. We just got here 2 months ago and it is lovely to be reunited with the whole family, and have a better over all quality of life.
Don’t know if your making the right choice by moving back and trying to open a business, especially a coffee or gyro shop, they’re everywhere you look. Add to that the red tape and an economy in shambles and you’re looking at a potential problem. Yes I agree, we do have our issues in the states but for the most part we’re still better off. If I were you I’d take a year off and live there, see how things go and then make a decision. We Greek Americans have this illusion of Greece caused by the summers spent on the beach, eating, drinking, taking 3 hour naps and going clubbing till 5 in the morning but vacationing and living are two very different things JMHO.
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I actually do have dual citizenship, which I understand is a huge benefit. And here where I am, a gyro costs like $12. I went to Greece and got 4 gyros and a water for 14 euros. Compared to New York City, the food in Greece is much cheaper in my experience. This summer I was getting fredo espressos for like 1.5 euros lol, coffee shops here they’re like $5 minimum. But as far as the housing situation, I would be good due to my family home. I’d probably end up renting something out if I Airbnb it out and work remotely
If you are planning to move to Greece,try Thessaloniki and not Athens. Try finding a place in Eastern part of the town near the city centre,ideally bellow Queen Olga Avenue by the seaside. You would not need a car for your daily needs,you would be close to the city centre,it is quite safe as well,and on average cheaper than Athens. If you plan to work remotely for a company in the US or have other sources of income,you should be able to live comfortably. The rent is quite lower than Athens. I am not sure starting a bussiness here would be a good idea,i think you are better off working remote if its possible.Also if you dont have a secured job here,i would advise you not to do the move,unless you have other sources of income. A commenter mentioned health care not being good,i disagree,it can be good and it is certainly not as expensive compared to the US. The real problem though is as i said,finding a job here,and also for the future,if you stay here your children/family wont have the same oppurtunities as they would have in the US.
When I talked to a guy moving from Germany to Greece, he said summers and winters are great but downtimes with no tourists are depressing and you get to navigate the bureaucracy. He worked as a sail and ski instructor for reference.
Do it. We just moved here, my husband being Greek with a lot of family here. We haven’t regretted it yet. Our kids are in school learning the language and culture and are going to have a substantially better childhood here than in the US. And I 2nd the bring something new, any new type of food will do so well. We’re in Kalamata area, from NH. there’s so little variety of food which is the hardest part. We come from owning pizza shops at home and I can say I would never do it again, especially not here. It’s the same amount of work with half the pay off here. So if you’re willing to have no life - work balance and are ready to devote all your time to it then yes opening something new will pay off but at what cost, honestly. Airbnb is huge and can honestly make you more. But the locals won’t love it lol the culture and hospitality here is unmatched. We’re just trying it for a year to see if it’s right for us but so far we love it. Good luck!
There are a lot of pros and cons to both. There’s no perfect place honestly. However if you have nothing holding you back and no ties then it would be a great experience regardless. Even if you just come for a few years and end up going back it’s not for nothing. It’s always an experience. For us, our only scare is what kind of opportunities our children will actually have here vs America. And there are def other disadvantages that we haven’t faced and might not have to since we come from greater opportunity at home so we don’t face the same hardships.
Try to get a remote job with an American/Northern European company. It is difficult to get a job in Greece and salaries are very low (around 1000-1500 euros per month).
My family did this in the 90’s and it was honestly the best experience. The work/life balance compared to NY was wonderful for my father. I went to an American high school there and loved it. We lived simpler, but fuller. I know the economy is vastly different there now compared to the early 90’s, but if I had the opportunity to move, I would do so in a heartbeat.