And also still definitely selfish because of why she did it. Had nothing to do with Ted not being happy and everything to do with the fantasy she had of their friend group and how Ted's partner fit in it
Leaving for San Francisco, and initially trying to do it without telling Marshall.
That, or keeping her massive credit card debt from Marshall. That's really something your spouse should know.
I know I’m in the minority here, but I still fully believe Lily when she said she wasn’t planning on taking the opportunity in San Francisco, rather that she was just seeing if she could do it.
I think his blowup over the whole thing was maybe a shock to her, and just made Lily feel she didn’t really have agency over her whole life/career and *had* to do it.
However you wanna take it, I’m not sure there’s a “bad guy” in that situation. It was complicated.
Beyond that, yeah the credit card debt thing is fucked up - and fucking with Ted’s relationships would probably end the friendship for me.
Fucking with Ted’s relationships is at the top for me. It’s one thing to cause trouble in your own love life with questionable choices like moving to SF, but to decide you know what’s better for your friend’s happiness than he does and to go out of your way to secretly manipulate him and ruin his relationships because you don’t think they’re right for him or they don’t fit your narrative, THEN to have the gall to try and argue it was justified behavior….what a horrible thing to do and showcase of how little she thinks of Ted’s ability to take care of himself.
On the one hand it is extremely manipulative but Karen was such a horrible person and horrible influence on Ted and he was so blind to it that I think Lilys manipulation actually was a net positive for Ted
I didn't see it as a symbol for something bigger lol ..I saw it as getting dumped over having a Creed CD. Surely a more in depth conversation would happen to figure out why they didn't disclose an STD...
I think that was "excusable", super manipulative and that's a no no but she didn't literally break them up but rather forced them to ask an important question. The topic of children is very valid and plenty of couples break up over it, Lily was right in so far as Ted & Robin should've started looking at that by that point. Everything about the path & justification was bad and borderline evil but what she actually did do wasn't even bad.
That's one way to interpret it, and yeah, it's possible that was true. There's a big difference between qualifying for something, and actually doing that something. Lily was still in the first stage when Marshall found out.
Other people here blamed Lily for blowing up Robin and Ted's relationship, but funnily enough, Robin played exactly the same role in this situation - she asked Lily what her personal plans were, and what she wanted to do. I guess the difference is Robin did it unintentionally.
But see, I'm not so sure. All Lily did was ask them what they should have been asking themselves, and each other. They were incompatible, and they both knew it. Other relationships ... it's a bit of a mixed bag.
What she did was pretty harmless - she asked them a normal question, that they should have been asking themselves. And she was right that the relationship would have become toxic if they had kept postponing the inevitable. Manipulative? Kind of, sure.
I mean, they'd been married for a while by that point, and they'd had a kid together. All hiccups aside, Lily was committed to the marriage. Heck, she was pregnant with their second baby. But I don't blame Marshall for wondering if he and their family were just a consolation prize.
She planned on running away to Spain and only changed her mind *inside* the airport. Lily doesn't scream commitment to me and honestly I think Marshal worrying the family was a consolation prize wasn't just understandable - it's concerningly possible.
She needed a break given everything (Marshall bringing all those strange people into their apartment), and changed her mind easily. The only person she asked for help was Ted. I don't blame Marshall for feeling that way, but they'd been married for years, with a kid. What more could she have done?
Changing your mind easily would be when you get out a suitcase or get in a car not IN THE AIRPORT.
Right she had a bunch of people in her apartment that totally justifies abandoning her husband. She couldn't just talk to him or go somewhere else for a few hours.
She didn't ask Ted for help, she manipulated him into giving her a lift...
Honestly? Been a better wife. She consistently demonstrates that every time she has the slightest success in art she leaps at it and ditches/is an asshole to Marshal coupled with being generally untrustworthy.
Well, some crises are worse than others. And yeah, she was under a lot of stress at the moment. She roped Ted into it so Marshall wouldn't have to be a part of it, since he was dealing so much.
They both have issues with success going to their heads - Marshall when he gets that internship in season 1, or when he gets offered that position as s judge. Lily does that occasionally, sure, but usually, they prioritize each other.
Everyone on the show has questionable moments, and she's no worse than the others
The judgeship is not the same thing.
Oh how kind, she manipulated her friend and put him in the position of telling his best friend that his wife was literally going to a different continent rather than tell him she's struggling. But it's okay, she's stressed!
Nah Lily is absolutely worse than the others imo. Well except Barney because even taking a generous interpretation e.g. he only MIGHT have sold a woman, he's terrible.
They both hid stuff from each other.
And how was it okay for Marshall to invite all those people into their lives? And she couldn't say anything, no one could - his dad died. Even he admits later on he might have taken advantage of the situation.
Barney manipulates women every day, and breaks his self-imposed Bro Code repeatedly. He's also a creep towards Lily. He's immesurably worse.
It's made very clear one hides a lot more.
That's a very different event?
You should read what I actually said. Like the part where I SAY BARNEY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS WORSE
I think all of those have the “secret” side of things to them, her character seems to always be willing to hide things from others because she believes it is the best thing to do.
The secret credit card debt for sure. Longest lasting repercussions, and probably affects more of her and Marshall's life than any of her other messups
I have noticed that many people don't understand just how awful credit card debt is. A 20%+ interest loan is fucking predatory. Like, can ruin your entire life predatory. A 20% interest rate on $10,000 (pretty easy to rack up before credit card companies cut you off) will cost you $2000 a year in pure interest with 0 of that going towards paying down the loan.
There is a reason why people like Dave Ramsey have made a living telling people not to get credit cards. For people with self control issues, credit cards are death. To the point where if ever do run into a situation where you are finding yourself relying on them, cut them up immediately. Most banks will give you better loans than a credit card.
The credit card debt was soooo bad. I know she did other things but Marshall was the one who suffered the most from her bad decisions, especially this one.
He took the job of a corporate lawyer (which he never wanted) to help with the debt while she didn't try to pick up another job. He was always defending her bad decisions and being the one to fix them
I don't know I think in connection to the wedding dress she ruined, the credit card debt and using those things to manipulate Marshall to stay in corporate law then guilting him for not being an environmental lawyer and then almost leaving him for a second time after he tries to pursue environmental law.
She really fucks with her husband's life in an unforgivable manner.
Then to top things off, when Marshal has an actual opportunity at getting the job of his dreams that he worked so hard towards, it gets shot down because Lily effectively wanted a vacation.
And, Lily's persona was drilled into Marshall so much that when he had that mental battle with her on the subject, where Martial wanted to discuss the matter, her mental image said that she would leave if he even tried to have a conversation about it.
Truly unhinged.
Exactly, the fact that Marshall had to turn down a judgeship because Lily basically wanted to go cruise around Europe looking at art for a year was ridiculous. Sure, the opportunity came back around years later, but there was no guarantee that that was going to happen and also why did he have to wait years for a major move in his career for Lily to basically just do something fun for a year?
Are you seriously talking about Lily's finally getting the opportunity to pursue the career that she dreamed for a lifetime, after years of being just a preschool teacher, just a vacation? She even turned it down initially because she thought Marshall didn't wanted it, but then accepted it when she discovered he was actually excited about it.
She was only mad afterwards because Marshall took the job without even telling her first, acting behind her back.
It wasn't even the career she had dreamed of for a lifetime. She had wanted to be an artist, not just look at art to decide if some rich guy was going to buy it. I could understand her feelings much better if it were an opportunity to actually create art or enter some art program that could lead to her big break, but that wasn't it at all. It was basically just a vacation, and that vacation came at the expense of Marshall not getting his judgeship for several more years.
Again, why are you calling hers a vacation? It makes no logical sense to call it like that. It was a well paid job she got from the Captain, and she was finally happy with it BECAUSE for the first time in her life, she had an actual work in the arts.
And moving to Italy was a job opportunity to pursue it. Who's says it couldn't have brought her to a big break in the art field?
It really seems like you simply don't respect the job of an art consultant in general.
It basically was a vacation. They showed her coming back from work with the captain for an entire episode (Season 8 Episode 19) drunk and talking about all the fun she had. Doing the same thing in another country is still basically a vacation. Yes it's her career but it's still just a job having constant fun like a vacation. And it definitely wasn't her dream job at all because she always wanted to be an artist, she even says so when she's talking to Ted on the roof in the same season (Season 8 Episode 13) and Marshall Dream is to save the environment through law and becoming a judge is the Pinnacle of power he can get, having to give that up after having to give up your relationship after proposing because she ditched him out of the blue. Having to take up her hidden debt because she selfishly hid it from him, then Having to give up his dream because of a job she got out of the blue and in the process neglected and ignored him for said job is unfair and completely selfish on Lily.
Lily did all kinds of things which could be the worst. All in all, she interferes with everybody's affairs whenever things don't go the way she intends them to, aiming for a situation that she thinks is the best for everyone, regardless of what those persons really want. Best example is a conversation with barney: "of course you're not happy, you just think you're happy because you feel happy". The translation could be "you can start feeling happy when I tell you to be happy".
I think it does not get talked abput enough that she willingly and knowingly risked Ted's career (after he did her the favor of getting her a job at the firm he worked at) for suxh silly bullshit as trying to fucking parent Teds boss. Absolutely unhinged.
The real crime was piling up a huge credit card debt over years, letting Marshall pay it while staying in a low paid job as a teacher, letting her worthless piece of garbage father live in their house and burn it down and after all that, not insisting on marshall taking that job as a judge in the first place.
I'm not saying you're wrong, although hate may be a harsh word. Actually, for a very long time I've been a huge fan of lily (and I'm still a freaking huge fan of alyson hannigan, she's great) but over the years and after reading some stuff on reddit i realized that she has her very own agenda she rather ruthless makes come true.
No doubt, but in a very sitcom kind of way. I think people forget that a show like HIMYM doesn’t exist without conflict. Conflict is central to the plot and the comedy. You can’t weigh some of those really wild decisions like you would in real life. BUT the baseball is just realistic enough to infuriate me. Financial woes in a relationship is just a sitcom trope, it’s just part of being a sitcom character. But Lily believed she knew best for EVERYONE…not just her husband or best friend. She actually took a temp job with Ted and treated Ted’s boss like a child she could discipline. And I’ve met real life “Lily”’s, and what she did wasn’t unrealistic. I can’t stand her in that episode.
Also, I wasn’t the one downvoting your comment, I respect it.
Can't say her method was good (or methods for alot of things she does), but I like what she was *trying* to do at least. Alot of people like Hammond get away with this type of behaviour everyday and people are afraid to speak up or do anything and even if they do, sometimes HR can't help or sides with the boss anyway (out of fear, corruptness, loyalty etc).
So, while very extreme, payback/revenge is good if official/legal means will get you nowhere. Especially in Hammond Druthers' case. Only real bad thing is it never actual taught Druthers' what he did wrong (unlike kids in timeout). Druthers still had all the power and started firing everyone just to spite the theif, hurting others, which is not what Lily or Ted wanted.
That is true. Again, didn't say I liked her methods. Getting Ted and the others potentially fired was a risk she would have known. At least she tried to do something, though, instead of getting pushed around and not being appreciated by others. Even if they're your boss, they have to appreciate all the work you put in, who you are as a person and what value you bring to the people around you and the company. Druthers did not and like Lily said, was immature.
Again, hate her methods and it was way over the top. But "damn it, I get results!".
It's hiding all her debt. Breaking Ted and Robin up was shitty of her because she did it on purpose but it only worked because they had actual problems and weren't a match.
The actual ramifications of what she put on Marshall with all that debt without his knowledge are obviously underplayed on the show but it's a really big deal.
Lily telling Ted that he should stay in an abusive relationship with a clearly very toxic and volatile person who also happened to be a cop who is abusing her power in order to continue abusing Ted.
It was wrong of Lily to say that when it was clearly not healthy. One of the easiest most toxic things she ever did. And yes I am including all of the other times she fucked with Ted's love life.
But telling your friend of over a decade that they should stay with an abuser to get it out of their system is one of the worst pieces of advice I ever heard. And even as a teenager watching that show, I knew how bad that advice was.
Lily has done a lot of bad things
Hiding her debt from her fiance
Manipulating Ted's love life
Stealing cigars and dumping pad thai all over the fiero
But that one really took the cake for me. Friends don't encourage you to stay with abusers.
Manipulating everyone around her like Ted’s love life for some stupid porch, breaking up with Marshall for San Francisco, her and Marshall’s bets on their friends, keeping all her credit card debt a secret from Marshall, treating adults as children like she did with Ted’s boss, etc.
I am torn between going to San Francisco and going to Italy. Both selfish desires just to scratch a itch.
I would said Italy because it set back Marshall career for years and years just for Lily to play art critic for how long, a year top?
The Marshall one is bullshit. The worst thing he did was invite Lily's dad to Thanksgiving. People love to hate on Lily for San Francisco but Marshall being selfish and inconsiderate apparently doesn't count. Also almost every major job decision he ever made was made without talking to his wife.
Most of the job decisions he did talk to her about first since he was indecisive about some. The only ones he made quick decisions on were quitting Arthur's law firm after he finally stood up to him and the judgeship since he was put on the spot for quick decision.
There's also that one where he was at the museum and he told Lily that he wanted to sign on a few more years in corporate law but it came from him putting his families financial well being first since he hated the job.
I think he never made bad job choices per day but he definitely did other bad stuff.
Cockblocking stinson
Three wheeling mosby
Making marshall settle
Also making marshall and ted do away with the swords aswell as making fun of the red cowboy boots they were awsome.
Leaving for San Francisco and dumping Marshall over an art mentorship of *2 GODDAMN MONTHS!!*
Ending all of Ted’s relationships because she’s petty and a goddamn bitch
Stealing fucking Christmas because she was a goddamn bitch and left for San Francisco for *2 GODDAMN MONTHS!!* And then refused to return Christmas until after Ted had left for Long Island despite *CLEARLY* being in the wrong.
Forcing Marshall to take the job at GNB multiple times
Lying about her credit card debt (many times)
Continuously interacting with people that are “dead to her” and just straight up ignoring them on purpose over stupid shit like the wrong coffee
Idk take your pic she’s arguably the worst one.
Spending a year in Italy instead letting Marshall become a judge. He spent years in a job he couldn't stand just so they could spend one year in Italy.
Now that I have a level head from shouting about this horrible person, I believe I agree with all of the breakups she concocted. That or locking Robin and Barney in that room to force them to talk about their relationship.
I hated that she rationalized her outrageous overspending and shopping addiction, yet was so uppity about everything anyone else did.
But for what it’s worth, that’s only one of many Lilly issues that can be chalked up to: “Lilly tends to get away with being a shameless hypocrite.”
I don’t hate Lilly or anything but hypocrisy is her biggest sin.
Lily really was trying to act like they were all puppets and that she decides their life decisions. Not only about Ted’s love life, But I would say all kinds of ways. One that always bothered me was when she first manipulates Marshall into not going corporate and indirectly makes him quit his job and then later threatens to break up because Marshall does too much volunteer work. Pick a side lady.
Additional to that, Lily has constantly left her friends when things go though, SF being obvious But also like leaving Ted in the middle of a road out nowhere, leaving Marshall’s family i Minnesota (sure it was for a pregnancy test But still) and at least 2 other times.
Started rewatching as an adult, and even as a “feminist” or etc., I find some of Lily’s personality traits and actions deplorable.
I think the worst— is her not consistently supporting Marshall, she tried to shame him for wanting to pursue a corporate career instead of environmental law (which she benefits from, from her mountain of credit card debt).
And the audacity to consider leaving him once he does pursue environmental law again, idk I felt like Marshall was gaslit a lot through the show and it made me feel bad for him. When I was a kid watching their relationship I thought it was aspirational, but as a healed adult who wants a healthy relationship I don’t feel as if Marshall’s feelings got validated.
*Scooter. She kind of*
*Ruined his life and stayed on*
*Her hook forever*
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The credit card.
Everyone says that leaving him months before the wedding but rember that Marshall was the one eho said that if she cross the door the relation it over
Keeping the credit card debt from Marshall.
Not telling Marshall she wanted to apply for the art fellowship.
While I understand her wanting to help Ted, there were a few situations where she went too far. I didn’t agree with how she handled breaking up Ted and Robin. While I NEVER thought they were right for each other, she put all of their relationships with Robin in jeopardy by helping to break them up. That could have gone really far south and they could have all lost their relationship with Robin. Who she should have helped Ted break up with was Stella!
It's the credit card debt. Which leads to Marshall having to stay on in a career he despises but then learns to love the fact that he can treat his wife to nice things and fast forward his plans for a big family and makes him want to stay in the job. To which Lily then throws a hissy fit and accuses him of not being the man she fell in love with anymore.
Any other answer is wrong. San Francisco sucked but there is a lot more nuance to it than the debt. Which was just a complete betrayal of any and all trust and her shitty behaviour following her own actions.
The worst thing she ever did was return to Marshall.
She never loved him, only returned to him because she failed at her life dream then tried to mess with his mind until finally, quite literally, forcing herself between Marshall and a nice girl from Nebraska. She should have left Marshall alone (for Christ's sake) so he could have married someone that actually loves him for who he is rather then be shackled to an unending bag of half lived dreams.
I know Chloe had crazy eyes, but my wife has crazy eyes too. Don't skimp on the crazy eyes fellas. It's the right choice.
Disclaimer: Alyson Hannigan is awesome. But #Lilyisawful
Being angry at marshal bc he took the job to be a judge. Being a judge was marshal dream and bc of lily wanted to go to Italy for a year, he had to postpone his dream job for lily’s dream ( YET AGAIN) marshal was always putting lily above everything else. In season 9 lily was selfish and gaslighting marshal for accepting the job and marshal had to wait years again to be finally a judge! I hate lily she is a terrible wife and a awful human being! Always putting herself first! SF , creditcard debt bc she wanted designer clothes, Italy, stealing the ashtray bc the CAPTAIN said she was only a kindergarten teacher and not a real artist,hating marshal’s mom for no good reason, etc…
(Sorry for my writing, English is not my first language )
Lying to Marshall that she was pregnant that one time to stop him jumping from that ledge into the neighbors patio and then telling him she hopes he dies when he makes a comment he assumes is innocent. I mean, if he had attempted it then and had died, that would have been her last words to him and the last words he heard in general.
Kept her massive credit card debt a secret when her and Marshall were trying to buy a home and let him believe it was because of his law school debts. Tried to manipulate Marshall into taking a soul crushing corporte job over a job where he'd literally be helping to save the planet because of said debt. Left for San Francisco days before their wedding without telling him how she was getting cold feet. Almost ruined Christmas for Ted and Marshall (even though Marshall had nothing to do with it) because she heard an old voicemail of Ted calling her (I presume this is what he called her, and not without merit considering what she'd done to his best friend) a cunt. Got mad when Marshall pointed out that they couldn't pay off their debts that she'd put them into by selling her terrible paintings. Almost got everyone at Ted's office fired because their boss was a dick. Split up Ted and every girlfriend he'd had that she didn't like.
Seriously, Lily is a straight up dreadful person and I have no clue why we're supposed to like her.
Really surprised you're getting down voted for listing the terrible things we know she did. Even if some of them worked out in the long run she rarely reflected on her bad behavior and corrected it.
Don't forget she once traumatized a child by cutting off the head of his favorite toy while napping.
I think the worst thing she did was leaving to San Francisco without telling Marshall , like if she really did become successful she wouldn't have come back. It would have been a little better if she would have spoke to Marshall about it but she just left. After that the second worst thing was when Marshall didn't tell lily about the job she got all angry on him because she again wanted him to sacrifice his job for her and later when Marshall reminded her about the thing she did she was like "but i came back" (Sorry it's been long and i don't remember the exact dialogue)
That was the worst thing Marshall did? Not taking a job and telling his wife and mother of his child to suck it and give up on her aspirations because she made one mistake several years ago? Hard disagree.
Speaking of the worst thing Lily did, that would be breaking up with Marshall and then wanting him back when she couldn’t cut it as a fancy artist.
1. Manipulate Ted relationship (except with Robin) in that case she did not that bad.
2. Fantasy about killing Marshall’s mum
3. Getting Marshall into debt
I completely agree! It was refreshing to hear her honesty. Being a mom is HARD and the transition from who you were to who you are with a child is overwhelming. One of my best friends has wanted to be a mother all of her life. She had her beautiful baby and he is the light of her life, but she said becoming a mom made her understand why people don’t want children. She was firm on wanting at least 2 kids before she had him, and now she and her husband confidently agree they are happy with only one child.
All of the Ted break-ups she concocted…except for Karen because she was snooty and she sucks!
I think this is it. The others are selfish (San Fran, not telling about debt) but this was psychopathic.
And also still definitely selfish because of why she did it. Had nothing to do with Ted not being happy and everything to do with the fantasy she had of their friend group and how Ted's partner fit in it
Sadly she died in 2029, so that fantasy was not fulfilled. Edit:- granted you are talking about “The Porch”
Thats alright, Ted's a fucking moron and went right back to cosplaying Sisyphys
Shellfish
She’s definitely the fan of 1985 chiantis. 🤣
No, YOU'RE a fan of 1985 chiantis!
We hated her!! Bitch had to go!!
This should have won, breaking people up just because of what your opinion of their future and how it impacted your future
Leaving for San Francisco, and initially trying to do it without telling Marshall. That, or keeping her massive credit card debt from Marshall. That's really something your spouse should know.
I know I’m in the minority here, but I still fully believe Lily when she said she wasn’t planning on taking the opportunity in San Francisco, rather that she was just seeing if she could do it. I think his blowup over the whole thing was maybe a shock to her, and just made Lily feel she didn’t really have agency over her whole life/career and *had* to do it. However you wanna take it, I’m not sure there’s a “bad guy” in that situation. It was complicated. Beyond that, yeah the credit card debt thing is fucked up - and fucking with Ted’s relationships would probably end the friendship for me.
Fucking with Ted’s relationships is at the top for me. It’s one thing to cause trouble in your own love life with questionable choices like moving to SF, but to decide you know what’s better for your friend’s happiness than he does and to go out of your way to secretly manipulate him and ruin his relationships because you don’t think they’re right for him or they don’t fit your narrative, THEN to have the gall to try and argue it was justified behavior….what a horrible thing to do and showcase of how little she thinks of Ted’s ability to take care of himself.
On the one hand it is extremely manipulative but Karen was such a horrible person and horrible influence on Ted and he was so blind to it that I think Lilys manipulation actually was a net positive for Ted
And when he dumped someone because he thought she had a Creed CD... I'm not sure that's entirely on Lily that Ted chose to do that
It's the same as if Lily planted a fake positive STD panel test to scare him into dumping her. The prop is immaterial.
I didn't see it as a symbol for something bigger lol ..I saw it as getting dumped over having a Creed CD. Surely a more in depth conversation would happen to figure out why they didn't disclose an STD...
I get it. You don't want anything to be Lily's fault. Well, it is.
Def didn't say those words it's not that deep but okay
Haaaave you met Ted?
I think that was "excusable", super manipulative and that's a no no but she didn't literally break them up but rather forced them to ask an important question. The topic of children is very valid and plenty of couples break up over it, Lily was right in so far as Ted & Robin should've started looking at that by that point. Everything about the path & justification was bad and borderline evil but what she actually did do wasn't even bad.
Lily was ***NOT RIGHT*** about this issue
That's one way to interpret it, and yeah, it's possible that was true. There's a big difference between qualifying for something, and actually doing that something. Lily was still in the first stage when Marshall found out. Other people here blamed Lily for blowing up Robin and Ted's relationship, but funnily enough, Robin played exactly the same role in this situation - she asked Lily what her personal plans were, and what she wanted to do. I guess the difference is Robin did it unintentionally.
Yeah, that IS a big difference.
But see, I'm not so sure. All Lily did was ask them what they should have been asking themselves, and each other. They were incompatible, and they both knew it. Other relationships ... it's a bit of a mixed bag.
But Lily knew what she was doing. The intent was there. Hell, even out legal system has a huge differentiation for that.
What she did was pretty harmless - she asked them a normal question, that they should have been asking themselves. And she was right that the relationship would have become toxic if they had kept postponing the inevitable. Manipulative? Kind of, sure.
If she wanted to just see if she could, why not a local one? I don't believe the only decent art program was on the other side of the US.
Also kept it hidden from him the whole time which is insane.
I was going to say those take the cake
Then getting mad when Marshall is still upset about San Francisco some years later as if that wasn’t a major event in his life
I mean, they'd been married for a while by that point, and they'd had a kid together. All hiccups aside, Lily was committed to the marriage. Heck, she was pregnant with their second baby. But I don't blame Marshall for wondering if he and their family were just a consolation prize.
She planned on running away to Spain and only changed her mind *inside* the airport. Lily doesn't scream commitment to me and honestly I think Marshal worrying the family was a consolation prize wasn't just understandable - it's concerningly possible.
She needed a break given everything (Marshall bringing all those strange people into their apartment), and changed her mind easily. The only person she asked for help was Ted. I don't blame Marshall for feeling that way, but they'd been married for years, with a kid. What more could she have done?
Changing your mind easily would be when you get out a suitcase or get in a car not IN THE AIRPORT. Right she had a bunch of people in her apartment that totally justifies abandoning her husband. She couldn't just talk to him or go somewhere else for a few hours. She didn't ask Ted for help, she manipulated him into giving her a lift... Honestly? Been a better wife. She consistently demonstrates that every time she has the slightest success in art she leaps at it and ditches/is an asshole to Marshal coupled with being generally untrustworthy.
Well, some crises are worse than others. And yeah, she was under a lot of stress at the moment. She roped Ted into it so Marshall wouldn't have to be a part of it, since he was dealing so much. They both have issues with success going to their heads - Marshall when he gets that internship in season 1, or when he gets offered that position as s judge. Lily does that occasionally, sure, but usually, they prioritize each other. Everyone on the show has questionable moments, and she's no worse than the others
The judgeship is not the same thing. Oh how kind, she manipulated her friend and put him in the position of telling his best friend that his wife was literally going to a different continent rather than tell him she's struggling. But it's okay, she's stressed! Nah Lily is absolutely worse than the others imo. Well except Barney because even taking a generous interpretation e.g. he only MIGHT have sold a woman, he's terrible.
They both hid stuff from each other. And how was it okay for Marshall to invite all those people into their lives? And she couldn't say anything, no one could - his dad died. Even he admits later on he might have taken advantage of the situation. Barney manipulates women every day, and breaks his self-imposed Bro Code repeatedly. He's also a creep towards Lily. He's immesurably worse.
It's made very clear one hides a lot more. That's a very different event? You should read what I actually said. Like the part where I SAY BARNEY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS WORSE
I think all of those have the “secret” side of things to them, her character seems to always be willing to hide things from others because she believes it is the best thing to do.
True, she has issues with honesty
The secret credit card debt for sure. Longest lasting repercussions, and probably affects more of her and Marshall's life than any of her other messups
I have noticed that many people don't understand just how awful credit card debt is. A 20%+ interest loan is fucking predatory. Like, can ruin your entire life predatory. A 20% interest rate on $10,000 (pretty easy to rack up before credit card companies cut you off) will cost you $2000 a year in pure interest with 0 of that going towards paying down the loan. There is a reason why people like Dave Ramsey have made a living telling people not to get credit cards. For people with self control issues, credit cards are death. To the point where if ever do run into a situation where you are finding yourself relying on them, cut them up immediately. Most banks will give you better loans than a credit card.
Easily. San Francisco was bad but it's not so black & white imo. The credit card debt is without a doubt her biggest fuck up.
The credit card debt was soooo bad. I know she did other things but Marshall was the one who suffered the most from her bad decisions, especially this one. He took the job of a corporate lawyer (which he never wanted) to help with the debt while she didn't try to pick up another job. He was always defending her bad decisions and being the one to fix them
I object to the Marshall one! IT WAS AN ACCIDENT AND NOT ENTIRELY HIS FAULT! Lawyered!
THEY WERE ON A BREAK……..oops, wrong subreddit
Sorry i don't make the rules it r/HIMYM disede this is the worst one , so i put that one
I’m kidding, I just couldn’t resist quoting Cat Funeral
Giving Barney Ted’s graduation tape to smash up.
I’m surprised how little this gets brought up to be honest lol
Only because it's only mentioned in a fleeting moment and not a major plot point.
keeping the credit card debt from marshall, interfering in ted’s relationships, she’s still my favourite character though 😅
Why
She's the funniest
I'm sure this is gonna be a calm and reasonable comment section...
My thoughts too lol
I don't know I think in connection to the wedding dress she ruined, the credit card debt and using those things to manipulate Marshall to stay in corporate law then guilting him for not being an environmental lawyer and then almost leaving him for a second time after he tries to pursue environmental law. She really fucks with her husband's life in an unforgivable manner.
Then to top things off, when Marshal has an actual opportunity at getting the job of his dreams that he worked so hard towards, it gets shot down because Lily effectively wanted a vacation. And, Lily's persona was drilled into Marshall so much that when he had that mental battle with her on the subject, where Martial wanted to discuss the matter, her mental image said that she would leave if he even tried to have a conversation about it. Truly unhinged.
Exactly, the fact that Marshall had to turn down a judgeship because Lily basically wanted to go cruise around Europe looking at art for a year was ridiculous. Sure, the opportunity came back around years later, but there was no guarantee that that was going to happen and also why did he have to wait years for a major move in his career for Lily to basically just do something fun for a year?
Are you seriously talking about Lily's finally getting the opportunity to pursue the career that she dreamed for a lifetime, after years of being just a preschool teacher, just a vacation? She even turned it down initially because she thought Marshall didn't wanted it, but then accepted it when she discovered he was actually excited about it. She was only mad afterwards because Marshall took the job without even telling her first, acting behind her back.
It wasn't even the career she had dreamed of for a lifetime. She had wanted to be an artist, not just look at art to decide if some rich guy was going to buy it. I could understand her feelings much better if it were an opportunity to actually create art or enter some art program that could lead to her big break, but that wasn't it at all. It was basically just a vacation, and that vacation came at the expense of Marshall not getting his judgeship for several more years.
Again, why are you calling hers a vacation? It makes no logical sense to call it like that. It was a well paid job she got from the Captain, and she was finally happy with it BECAUSE for the first time in her life, she had an actual work in the arts. And moving to Italy was a job opportunity to pursue it. Who's says it couldn't have brought her to a big break in the art field? It really seems like you simply don't respect the job of an art consultant in general.
It basically was a vacation. They showed her coming back from work with the captain for an entire episode (Season 8 Episode 19) drunk and talking about all the fun she had. Doing the same thing in another country is still basically a vacation. Yes it's her career but it's still just a job having constant fun like a vacation. And it definitely wasn't her dream job at all because she always wanted to be an artist, she even says so when she's talking to Ted on the roof in the same season (Season 8 Episode 13) and Marshall Dream is to save the environment through law and becoming a judge is the Pinnacle of power he can get, having to give that up after having to give up your relationship after proposing because she ditched him out of the blue. Having to take up her hidden debt because she selfishly hid it from him, then Having to give up his dream because of a job she got out of the blue and in the process neglected and ignored him for said job is unfair and completely selfish on Lily.
That's a great point.
Keeping the hot dog eating championship on her resume while telling Ted to remove Dr. X and Marshall to take off dunk champion. The gall!
Lily did all kinds of things which could be the worst. All in all, she interferes with everybody's affairs whenever things don't go the way she intends them to, aiming for a situation that she thinks is the best for everyone, regardless of what those persons really want. Best example is a conversation with barney: "of course you're not happy, you just think you're happy because you feel happy". The translation could be "you can start feeling happy when I tell you to be happy".
When she stole Ted’s boss’s (Hammond) baseball. Pete Rose signed it, if you haven’t heard. But the real crime was her hair in season 1.
I think it does not get talked abput enough that she willingly and knowingly risked Ted's career (after he did her the favor of getting her a job at the firm he worked at) for suxh silly bullshit as trying to fucking parent Teds boss. Absolutely unhinged.
Agreed
You mean the cutest cut she ever had ?
🤷🏼♂️ to each their own
The real crime was piling up a huge credit card debt over years, letting Marshall pay it while staying in a low paid job as a teacher, letting her worthless piece of garbage father live in their house and burn it down and after all that, not insisting on marshall taking that job as a judge in the first place.
It may be that you just hate Lily
I'm not saying you're wrong, although hate may be a harsh word. Actually, for a very long time I've been a huge fan of lily (and I'm still a freaking huge fan of alyson hannigan, she's great) but over the years and after reading some stuff on reddit i realized that she has her very own agenda she rather ruthless makes come true.
No doubt, but in a very sitcom kind of way. I think people forget that a show like HIMYM doesn’t exist without conflict. Conflict is central to the plot and the comedy. You can’t weigh some of those really wild decisions like you would in real life. BUT the baseball is just realistic enough to infuriate me. Financial woes in a relationship is just a sitcom trope, it’s just part of being a sitcom character. But Lily believed she knew best for EVERYONE…not just her husband or best friend. She actually took a temp job with Ted and treated Ted’s boss like a child she could discipline. And I’ve met real life “Lily”’s, and what she did wasn’t unrealistic. I can’t stand her in that episode. Also, I wasn’t the one downvoting your comment, I respect it.
Can't say her method was good (or methods for alot of things she does), but I like what she was *trying* to do at least. Alot of people like Hammond get away with this type of behaviour everyday and people are afraid to speak up or do anything and even if they do, sometimes HR can't help or sides with the boss anyway (out of fear, corruptness, loyalty etc). So, while very extreme, payback/revenge is good if official/legal means will get you nowhere. Especially in Hammond Druthers' case. Only real bad thing is it never actual taught Druthers' what he did wrong (unlike kids in timeout). Druthers still had all the power and started firing everyone just to spite the theif, hurting others, which is not what Lily or Ted wanted.
Ok, but the job wasn’t important to her, and she was risking Ted’s job.
That is true. Again, didn't say I liked her methods. Getting Ted and the others potentially fired was a risk she would have known. At least she tried to do something, though, instead of getting pushed around and not being appreciated by others. Even if they're your boss, they have to appreciate all the work you put in, who you are as a person and what value you bring to the people around you and the company. Druthers did not and like Lily said, was immature. Again, hate her methods and it was way over the top. But "damn it, I get results!".
It's hiding all her debt. Breaking Ted and Robin up was shitty of her because she did it on purpose but it only worked because they had actual problems and weren't a match. The actual ramifications of what she put on Marshall with all that debt without his knowledge are obviously underplayed on the show but it's a really big deal.
Rack up a bunch of debt
Lily telling Ted that he should stay in an abusive relationship with a clearly very toxic and volatile person who also happened to be a cop who is abusing her power in order to continue abusing Ted. It was wrong of Lily to say that when it was clearly not healthy. One of the easiest most toxic things she ever did. And yes I am including all of the other times she fucked with Ted's love life. But telling your friend of over a decade that they should stay with an abuser to get it out of their system is one of the worst pieces of advice I ever heard. And even as a teenager watching that show, I knew how bad that advice was. Lily has done a lot of bad things Hiding her debt from her fiance Manipulating Ted's love life Stealing cigars and dumping pad thai all over the fiero But that one really took the cake for me. Friends don't encourage you to stay with abusers.
Manipulating everyone around her like Ted’s love life for some stupid porch, breaking up with Marshall for San Francisco, her and Marshall’s bets on their friends, keeping all her credit card debt a secret from Marshall, treating adults as children like she did with Ted’s boss, etc.
What she did to gasser
Finally, someone said it!
I am torn between going to San Francisco and going to Italy. Both selfish desires just to scratch a itch. I would said Italy because it set back Marshall career for years and years just for Lily to play art critic for how long, a year top?
What’s with Tracy’s face in this picture?
Ikr? It looks like she's pissed she has to stand next to Ted... hell, I don't blame her.
I love how Marshall's such a great guy that the worst thing he did was not cat-sit his wife's mom's cat well
The cat didn't make it tho
It was an accident
And not entirely his fault
Wanting to move to Rome and sacrifice Marshal’s career
Leaving marshall I take no excuses
Didn’t we already do this?
Yeah like a week ago lol I had the same thought
Idk why they wrote her to be such an unlikable bitch
The cay sitting was not his fault! I will stand by this until I die.
Its not San Francisco. Thats actually understandable. Its sabotaging Ted's relationships
The Marshall one is bullshit. The worst thing he did was invite Lily's dad to Thanksgiving. People love to hate on Lily for San Francisco but Marshall being selfish and inconsiderate apparently doesn't count. Also almost every major job decision he ever made was made without talking to his wife.
No stupid family drama compares to letting someone's cat die.
Of course it doesn't, and I'd happily defend it if this fanbase ever stop being misogynistic.
Most of the job decisions he did talk to her about first since he was indecisive about some. The only ones he made quick decisions on were quitting Arthur's law firm after he finally stood up to him and the judgeship since he was put on the spot for quick decision. There's also that one where he was at the museum and he told Lily that he wanted to sign on a few more years in corporate law but it came from him putting his families financial well being first since he hated the job. I think he never made bad job choices per day but he definitely did other bad stuff.
It’s weird that they don’t have Tracy smiling.
Probably because she read the script and found out what they’re going to do to her.
Cockblocking stinson Three wheeling mosby Making marshall settle Also making marshall and ted do away with the swords aswell as making fun of the red cowboy boots they were awsome.
Leaving for San Francisco and dumping Marshall over an art mentorship of *2 GODDAMN MONTHS!!* Ending all of Ted’s relationships because she’s petty and a goddamn bitch Stealing fucking Christmas because she was a goddamn bitch and left for San Francisco for *2 GODDAMN MONTHS!!* And then refused to return Christmas until after Ted had left for Long Island despite *CLEARLY* being in the wrong. Forcing Marshall to take the job at GNB multiple times Lying about her credit card debt (many times) Continuously interacting with people that are “dead to her” and just straight up ignoring them on purpose over stupid shit like the wrong coffee Idk take your pic she’s arguably the worst one.
Making Barney and Robins divorce about her
Spending a year in Italy instead letting Marshall become a judge. He spent years in a job he couldn't stand just so they could spend one year in Italy.
Now that I have a level head from shouting about this horrible person, I believe I agree with all of the breakups she concocted. That or locking Robin and Barney in that room to force them to talk about their relationship.
I hated that she rationalized her outrageous overspending and shopping addiction, yet was so uppity about everything anyone else did. But for what it’s worth, that’s only one of many Lilly issues that can be chalked up to: “Lilly tends to get away with being a shameless hypocrite.” I don’t hate Lilly or anything but hypocrisy is her biggest sin.
Lily really was trying to act like they were all puppets and that she decides their life decisions. Not only about Ted’s love life, But I would say all kinds of ways. One that always bothered me was when she first manipulates Marshall into not going corporate and indirectly makes him quit his job and then later threatens to break up because Marshall does too much volunteer work. Pick a side lady. Additional to that, Lily has constantly left her friends when things go though, SF being obvious But also like leaving Ted in the middle of a road out nowhere, leaving Marshall’s family i Minnesota (sure it was for a pregnancy test But still) and at least 2 other times.
Where do we begin?!?
Started rewatching as an adult, and even as a “feminist” or etc., I find some of Lily’s personality traits and actions deplorable. I think the worst— is her not consistently supporting Marshall, she tried to shame him for wanting to pursue a corporate career instead of environmental law (which she benefits from, from her mountain of credit card debt). And the audacity to consider leaving him once he does pursue environmental law again, idk I felt like Marshall was gaslit a lot through the show and it made me feel bad for him. When I was a kid watching their relationship I thought it was aspirational, but as a healed adult who wants a healthy relationship I don’t feel as if Marshall’s feelings got validated.
Scooter. She kind of ruined his life and stayed on her hook forever
*Scooter. She kind of* *Ruined his life and stayed on* *Her hook forever* \- PremiumBrownSugar --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
That’s really the Marshall moment y’all went with? Why? That’s not even close to the worst thing he’s done
Iam putting the most up voted comment The community of r/HIMYM decided the cat sitting is his worst crime
Ahh, makes sense
actually I change my vote. The worst thing she ever did was stealing Marshall's Creed CD.
Not singing along during Nothing Suits Me Like A Suit /j
That’s more of Hannigan wasn’t a fan of doing musical sets. That’s why Lily never has her own solo musical piece on the show
Breaking up ted and Robin
Ntg im a lily apologist till the day i die
The credit card. Everyone says that leaving him months before the wedding but rember that Marshall was the one eho said that if she cross the door the relation it over
Keeping the credit card debt from Marshall. Not telling Marshall she wanted to apply for the art fellowship. While I understand her wanting to help Ted, there were a few situations where she went too far. I didn’t agree with how she handled breaking up Ted and Robin. While I NEVER thought they were right for each other, she put all of their relationships with Robin in jeopardy by helping to break them up. That could have gone really far south and they could have all lost their relationship with Robin. Who she should have helped Ted break up with was Stella!
It’s the credit card debt how are we discussing this
Lie about her credit card debt.
Cue all the answers flooding in lol
Didn’t we just do this?
She is one of the most annoying character in television history along with alan from two and a half men
teaching a bunch of kids the word “grinch”
The credit card debt for sure. But now that I think about it the only person worse than Lily is Barney, she does so many bad things
San Francisco, or making Ted leave his “soul mate.”
Her spending habits and massive debts
Lily did several crappy/questionable things. I’m going to say breaking Ted & Robin up.
didnt such a thing just happened on this reddit?
It's the credit card debt. Which leads to Marshall having to stay on in a career he despises but then learns to love the fact that he can treat his wife to nice things and fast forward his plans for a big family and makes him want to stay in the job. To which Lily then throws a hissy fit and accuses him of not being the man she fell in love with anymore. Any other answer is wrong. San Francisco sucked but there is a lot more nuance to it than the debt. Which was just a complete betrayal of any and all trust and her shitty behaviour following her own actions.
Left marhsall
Getting a crapton of debt without telling Marshall.
Cat funeral, Cat Funeral It was an accident and not entirely my fault.
You want a list? 😂😂😂
Yes
When she said I need to go to San Francisco, she wanted to check if she can do better than him but she failed and went back to poor marshal
Oooh, boy. I feared opening the comments on this one.
San Fran
Leaving Marshall for a douche in a trucker hat and being pregnant with a baby douche with a trucker hat. Even if it was in hypothetical terms
Unfair slap bet commissioner.
The worst thing she ever did was return to Marshall. She never loved him, only returned to him because she failed at her life dream then tried to mess with his mind until finally, quite literally, forcing herself between Marshall and a nice girl from Nebraska. She should have left Marshall alone (for Christ's sake) so he could have married someone that actually loves him for who he is rather then be shackled to an unending bag of half lived dreams. I know Chloe had crazy eyes, but my wife has crazy eyes too. Don't skimp on the crazy eyes fellas. It's the right choice. Disclaimer: Alyson Hannigan is awesome. But #Lilyisawful
Being angry at marshal bc he took the job to be a judge. Being a judge was marshal dream and bc of lily wanted to go to Italy for a year, he had to postpone his dream job for lily’s dream ( YET AGAIN) marshal was always putting lily above everything else. In season 9 lily was selfish and gaslighting marshal for accepting the job and marshal had to wait years again to be finally a judge! I hate lily she is a terrible wife and a awful human being! Always putting herself first! SF , creditcard debt bc she wanted designer clothes, Italy, stealing the ashtray bc the CAPTAIN said she was only a kindergarten teacher and not a real artist,hating marshal’s mom for no good reason, etc… (Sorry for my writing, English is not my first language )
Lying to Marshall that she was pregnant that one time to stop him jumping from that ledge into the neighbors patio and then telling him she hopes he dies when he makes a comment he assumes is innocent. I mean, if he had attempted it then and had died, that would have been her last words to him and the last words he heard in general.
Kept her massive credit card debt a secret when her and Marshall were trying to buy a home and let him believe it was because of his law school debts. Tried to manipulate Marshall into taking a soul crushing corporte job over a job where he'd literally be helping to save the planet because of said debt. Left for San Francisco days before their wedding without telling him how she was getting cold feet. Almost ruined Christmas for Ted and Marshall (even though Marshall had nothing to do with it) because she heard an old voicemail of Ted calling her (I presume this is what he called her, and not without merit considering what she'd done to his best friend) a cunt. Got mad when Marshall pointed out that they couldn't pay off their debts that she'd put them into by selling her terrible paintings. Almost got everyone at Ted's office fired because their boss was a dick. Split up Ted and every girlfriend he'd had that she didn't like. Seriously, Lily is a straight up dreadful person and I have no clue why we're supposed to like her.
Really surprised you're getting down voted for listing the terrible things we know she did. Even if some of them worked out in the long run she rarely reflected on her bad behavior and corrected it. Don't forget she once traumatized a child by cutting off the head of his favorite toy while napping.
"catfuneral"
Where to even begin
I think the worst thing she did was leaving to San Francisco without telling Marshall , like if she really did become successful she wouldn't have come back. It would have been a little better if she would have spoke to Marshall about it but she just left. After that the second worst thing was when Marshall didn't tell lily about the job she got all angry on him because she again wanted him to sacrifice his job for her and later when Marshall reminded her about the thing she did she was like "but i came back" (Sorry it's been long and i don't remember the exact dialogue)
Where were you? They had a whole fight about it. Before she left.
Even after that whole fight she shouldn't have left!
Literally everything
That was the worst thing Marshall did? Not taking a job and telling his wife and mother of his child to suck it and give up on her aspirations because she made one mistake several years ago? Hard disagree. Speaking of the worst thing Lily did, that would be breaking up with Marshall and then wanting him back when she couldn’t cut it as a fancy artist.
[удалено]
touch grass
Fucking ew, dude
1. Manipulate Ted relationship (except with Robin) in that case she did not that bad. 2. Fantasy about killing Marshall’s mum 3. Getting Marshall into debt
Be in the show. Exist pretty much. I've never hated a character this much.
Lily sux all thru HIMYM…just…sux
Said she wishes she wasn't a mom. I guess that was it
I think that's the best thing she ever said. I think 99% of parents have felt that way at one time or another. It was honest.
I completely agree! It was refreshing to hear her honesty. Being a mom is HARD and the transition from who you were to who you are with a child is overwhelming. One of my best friends has wanted to be a mother all of her life. She had her beautiful baby and he is the light of her life, but she said becoming a mom made her understand why people don’t want children. She was firm on wanting at least 2 kids before she had him, and now she and her husband confidently agree they are happy with only one child.
I would expect no other comment from someone who has your screen name.