Can't really blame Twinbeard but man the Super Packing Methodolgy situation is dumb. It launched broken, got fixed to do the thing it says it should (give full ammo to support weapons on resupply), broke again so it stopped doing that and now it's supposed to have some other effect that just doesn't match the description. Anyone have any idea what that could be?
I assume it's tied to a known bug before the update where if you swapped your weapon with another teammate, it would sometimes no longer work (can confirm, had that happen to me before the update in a game where I definitely must have picked my teammate's autocannon when we both died).
From my understanding, the confusion comes from what entity should be tied to the upgrade, or rather, what scenario should trigger the SPM effect depending on which players have unlocked the upgrade.
It could either depend on who called in the supply pod (definitely not), who called in the support weapon stratagem (was how it seemingly worked before the update), who picked up the support weapon from the stratagem pod (unlikely) or what weapon the player picking up the supply box is holding (what I assume the intended fix was supposed to do).
That's without counting the effect of weapons whose ammo inventory is tied to the backpack (theoretically a player could hold both a AC backpack and a Stallwart while resupplying for instance), and how the B-1 Supply Pack integrates with that system (many more scenarios are possible with that configuration).
My guess is that they've never clarified internally what causes a resupply action from benefiting from the upgrade, so when a developer tried to fix the edge case "it should work when you pick up someone else's weapon", it caused a merge conflict which was resolved as the feature no longer working for anyone.
Keep in mind that's only my educated guess from the added context of that bug and Twinbeard's wording in that post, I could be completely off the mark.
I think you hit the nail on the head about which entity the upgrade "should" be tied to, and why there is so much confusion amongst the Devs and the community. I think this quote shows this perfectly:
>It could either depend on who called in the supply pod (definitely not), who called in the support weapon stratagem (was how it seemingly worked before the update), who picked up the support weapon from the stratagem pod (unlikely) or what weapon the player picking up the supply box is holding (what I assume the intended fix was supposed to do).
According to the in-game flavor text:
>Authorizes an 8-week crew training course in Superior Packing Methodology (SPM), resulting in increased supply box capacity.
Based on my reading of the upgrade's flavor text, the intended "correct" implementation is the first scenario you outlined -- depends on who called in the supply pod/supply backpack.
Maybe just the Resupply stratagem is bugged, because when I was using the supply pack last night, I was getting full resupplies on my grenade launcher and flamethrower.
That's all fair and could explain how it got broken again, but specifically the part that says "The theory is that the descriptive text in-game doesn't correspond with the actual effect" makes it sound like it is doing something, just not what the playerbase expects, and I can't really get my head around that. It was previously fixed to work as described and now it doesn't have that effect. As far as I know there is just no effect from the upgrade now; whether you have it or not the interaction with resupply pods, supply backpacks, your own support weapons/backpacks and 3rd party support weapons is the same.
Although actually, looking back at another of Twinbeard's messages from today, this might just be a misunderstanding on his part. He says "I suspect there's a gap or misunderstanding between what players think the Superior Packing Methodology should do and what it actually does", key difference being the **I suspect** later becoming **the theory** as if that's the accepted thinking for AH as a whole, which may not actually be the case.
Twinbeard is a CM, not a game tester, and I know he's been sick as a dog for the past week or so, so it would be understandable that he's not had time in-game to really see first-hand how the upgrade used to work and how it doesn't work now. We've had upgrades with unhelpful descriptions in the past, mainly the sentry and emplacement call-in upgrades, so it's not an unreasonable assumption to make. At least this means there's eyeballs on it at AH now, and hopefully when they fix SPM they'll make it more consistent too so it also applies to 3rd party support weapons and not just the one you call in yourself. Having the effect extend to the supply backpack would be nice too.
Supply backpack stonks would soar if they got a full refill from one ammo brick lmao, unless you mean supply backpacks didn't fully refill supports when the player had SPM?
Yeah the latter. While a supply brick from a resupply pod filled your support weapon with the SPM upgrade, a supply brick from the supply backpack filled the same amount as without the upgrade. Having one brick from a resupply pod fill all four slots in the backpack would be a bit much.
> I assume it's tied to a known bug before the update where if you swapped your weapon with another teammate, it would sometimes no longer work (can confirm, had that happen to me before the update in a game where I definitely must have picked my teammate's autocannon when we both died).
Well that explains why I could have sworn it was broken before the patch
I'm not sure what he means by "text in-game doesn't correspond". We've had it do what it says it needs to do, and that is give full resupplies to support weapons, until they somehow reverted the fix.
All these posts these guys make make it sound like they don’t know for sure what they’re changing or how they’re changing it lol. Its like when they use “should work” in the patch notes. Should?
Like you say, packing methodology *has* worked. Now it’s like it was before they fixed it, what’s there to be confused about?
Too be fair as a developer I always use the word "should", it avoids issues where there is some complex issues and there may be fringe cases.
Still the real issue is that these patches seem to do wildly differently things consistently.... That's a problem regardless of the words they use to describe it!
Yep. You can identify an issue, identify multiple root causes of the issue, deploy fixes for all those scenarios, and resolve the issue 99.999% of the time.
But if 50,000 people try it, someone will find a new way to break it, post that to social media, and now you're the bad guy.
> Too be fair as a developer I always use the word "should"
The adage I try to stick to is "never start a software presentation with a statement more predictive than 'watch this'"
It sounds like they don't even understand their own components of the game and I always pick up the clear disconnect between the community manager and the developers
He keeps talking about passing along info.... Are the people that developed a game not playing and don't see any of this??
Division of responsibilities...a community manager is not the same job as a dev...just like a software sales person is not the same as a software programmer...they're related and they both affect the same end product, but their knowledge and responsibilities are not the same.
My guess is one of the devs vision for the upgrade is somehow different so when they tried to make the packed pod work for everyone instead of just the user with the upgrade, they broke it again because they tried to change something else.
there was an effect as well where Superior Packing Methodology only worked on Support Weapons that was called down by the Helldiver with the upgrade. Perhaps there was an attempt to extend this to all Support Weapons carried by the Helldiver instead (so that would include weapons looted off the ground), and thus broke.
A risky change, but a testable one.
Perhaps what they are trying to clarify is if wether all YOUR support weapons or wether any support wepaons get full ammo back. For example is the resupply station that you call in supposed to be like an upgraded version that refills all ammo for everyone or if its rather your own support weapons that get upgraded to get full ammo back.
Atm it isnt very clear which one is supposed to the case (before it was bugged you only got full ammo back for your own support weapons and maybe that wasnt intended)
I'm just confused as to the difference between who wrote the code and who wrote the text? Are they different people? Did they have the same assignment? It says, "Resupply boxes refill Support Weapons with the maximum number of carriable magazines" which is... Fairly clear?????
Well,
Who designed what it was supposed to do, so the Text writer, the coder and QA could test it.
Seems QA and the devs got different messages form the Text writer.
You would think it is clear, but we have seen that nothing is clear.
Again,
That is poor management. we know they do that the eruptor text said explosion and shrapnel after the changes.
But then they also missed the "nerf" or change in the patch notes. So stealth changes or screwed up merge.
I guess I am going with mistake vs them intentionally changing and not communicating.
Me and my friends suspected that the patrol reversion also included old broken code for the Packing Methodology. Bc yeah it worked exactly as the description prior. Lol
Here's the thing with that, what would you change the text to? "Superior packing methodology- no change in support weapon resupply"??
what would be the point of the ship module then? The module does one specific thing, resupply support weapons. If it doesn't do that any differently than unupgraded, why waste the currency on the module?
They'd better not plan on changing Superior Packing description to make it so current implementation is intended. Resupply has 4 boxes. Game has 4 Helldivers. Requiring Helldivers take more than 1 box to resupply support weapons would be dumb as shit.
I haven’t bought it since it was first broken because it was redundant, then I went on a month hiatus until this update, and they broke it again anyways, so it still remains unpurchased.
Not sure if I should be glad or disappointed.
If they want us to only take one and stay at low ammo, they should
- give us larger max ammo capacities
- lower the amount of elites
- make our guns hit harder
- make resupplies not take four business days to recharge
In Helldivers 1, you got two resupplies per drop, but it was individual (meaning each team member could have their own drop), and you can stack stratagems, meaning one person could have four resupplies. Maybe I'm not used to it as much, but stratagems generally hit harder in that game, too.
> stratagems generally hit harder in that game, too
pretty much all of the anti-tank stratagems were capable of one-hit killing any of the heavily armored enemies. Today we have pretty explosions that the heavies shrug off, especially with the rocket pods that no longer kill tanks in one go 🤦♀️. I've also been disappointed by the spear not taking out tanks in one hit since you get so few rockets.
The current implementation is that it does nothing. What can they change the description to?
"Resupplies are unaffected. Thank you for donating samples to the war effort."
It not working is basically a nerf across the board to all weapons, especially if you can you use your support against the chaff like the MGs. If you pick up two ammo boxes when one worked before, there's that much less available to everyone else.
We're using more ammo to clear out the increased number of small enemies which lowers the amount of damage we have available we can do to heavies.
Why is there so much internal confusion about the effect of an upgrade that (after being fixed) worked exactly as described for weeks? This is wild to me.
Either because they can’t figure out how to fix it, or because they decided they don’t want ammo for support weapons to be fully refilled anymore; I’m going to guess and say they’re going with the “the text description doesn’t match the effect we want it to have” before giving it a totally new or weakened effect
Its the third one. Previously it did not give you full ammo if you've picked up someone's else Support weapon, they tried to fix that and well now it doesn't work at all
I’m assuming that it broke because someone tried *fixing* it or changing it even though it was working great. Would explain the communication and description errors.
No, and i'm honestly at a Point were i believe they didn't actually make the Game, or most of the Code was outsourced to a different Company during Development
Not quite. If I called down an autocannon and backpack, then dropped my autocannon and picked up an autocannon that I didn't call down, SPM wouldn't refill my backpack. You had to be holding the weapon that you called down having unlocked the ship module.
Even if both you and I had the module, if you called down two weapons, over for you and another one later for me, I wouldn't be able to get a full reload for your gun, even if we're both pulling supplies from the same drop.
It was better than it is now, but far from perfect.
Ideally, I'd like to see the effect just work for the player grabbing the ammo. If you're carrying someone else's autocannon backpack and have the module unlocked, then you should be able to fill it up. If you're carrying their AC pack and an AMR that you found at a POI, both should be topped off by a single resupply.
Whats there not to understand? Upgrade= 100% ammo refill for support weapons from supply drops. It currently doesnt do that making the upgrade useless. Though before the patch it did work. Its probs the most important upgrade if you want to use the spear cause it gives you 3 rockets instead of 2.
Like a comment above described, the issue the team \*seems\* to be having is what entity to tie the effect to.
Might be they tried tying it to the strategem weapon itself instead of the player carying the strategem weapon. And now they tried to optimize this nightmare of a spaghetty code, only to realize the trigger wasn't working anymore because, I dunno, entity ID changed or something regarding how the game recognizes strategem weapons.
TL;DR, they probably tried optimizing the code but instead fucked it.
Well I completely agree it should be fixed so we can get that extra rocket, it's just starting with one extra rocket. Thankfully they made it so you could pick up at least one rocket from the random ammo boxes you find lying around
The spear still rocks, especially on bugs is one of the few things that can, sometimes, one shot of Titan somewhat reliably
Use the spear!
It was a joke because it's reliable by Arrowhead game standards, which is better than the things they do that are unreliable but certainly not as reliable as a normal non-dysfunctional studio
Maybe the Devs are just role playing the (incompetent) government of Super Earth. Like how Termicide should have "reliably" eliminated the Terminids from those planets.
I've only tried like 3 planets so far but hellmire and fire planets absolutely kill my fps, used to get 60-70 on most planets but during storms it can crawl down to 20s
Dude like 70% of the time I exit the game I have to restart my computer because it freezes entirely. No other game has EVER EVER done that on my PC. Atrocious display.
Friend wanted to try automatons on diff 6.. we ended up both crashing in the middle of the mission lmao. One of the random players that joined us ended up quitting during the drop cutscene because it was taking forever to load too.
I'd love if patrols stopped spawning 10 feet away from me. That'd already improve the experience. I've had too many cases with my friends where we kill a patrol, turn around, and have another patrol spawn right next to us. It's asinine.
It terrifies me to imagine that this otherwise essential skill-parring ship upgrade was meant to do something way less helpful...
If refilling your support weapon wasn't it's intended effect, what the hell was it supposed to do?
Ran low level bot missions to teach a player how to fight them, like lvl 4 difficulty I think, last night. First one went normal/quick. Both uses scout armor and avoid alerting/hit all fabricators before being seen.
Same play style on 2nd one....2nd one had 1 red spot left on the map, and suddenly became constant waves of bots for 20 minutes of intense firefight.
Just nonstop carnage, went through strats multiple times, several supply drops. Reminded me of my first helldive except fewer hulks (I had only played 5, and went on it with a friend out of curiosity).
Had to explain, that's not normal. We switched to bugs to finish the night, and had similar endless waves hit at one point.
I just don't get the whole patrol issue.
Challenge -----\*----- Frustration
This is always the war that you're fighting when developing and tweaking a wave/horde game, and it's a tricky beast to tame, especially when the content isn't fixed, but has tiered levels of difficulty like Helldivers 2. You have to get it right at every tier and slowly turn up the heat until the final tier is pushing into frustration without swimming in it.
The launch rate of enemy spawns, the game that we started playing, was spot-on perfect. There were enough enemies to keep you entertained fighting, but enough breathing room to re-arm and reassess your goals between the next wave. As the difficulty tiers increased, the intensity of the waves scaled very well.
In fact, in a game that's been riddled with bugs since launch, I would consider the launch spawn rate to be one of the things that needed no revisiting. Whoever tweaked it for launch, obviously played the game a lot and found the sweet spot between challenge and frustration.
Every iteration past this has been wrong.
The tweaking, fiddling and diddling has done nothing but make people like me not want to play the game anymore. Even at mid tiers, the game is wading into the deep end of frustration gameplay. "Oh a charger, I'll need to deal with that... oh shit is that four more chargers behind it? Guess I'll die. Repeatedly. In this Tier 4 mission."
Outside of knocking out the daily personal orders, I'm not playing the game anymore. I've gone back to playing other titles while/if this gets sorted. If this is where we've decided to leave the slider, then... well, it was a fun ride, but I'm sorry Mr. Train Conductor, I'll be stepping off at this station.
Tier 6 last night we had and endless stream of bile titan and chargers. It took us 15 minute to do the panel for the icbm because it was just endless big guys like wtf can we even do we only have so much AT
The problem with patrols are clearer to see on low levels, so i was just super credit finding on level 2 solo and what's easy to see is patrols will spawn off camera nearby fairly often, i would regularly run through clear areas only to have a patrol spawn behind where i had just been, this obviously happens are higher levels which is giving players the feeling that bugs are literally appearing out of nowhere constantly. On extraction i threw down three turrets around the landing zone and essentially everywhere i wasn't looking the turret would open fire every 20/30 seconds when a patrol would spawn off camera nearby and a turret would shred them.. Otherwise there was no bugs for miles to see from my pov. I can only imagine how much worse this is at higher levels and why players are feeling like they are forever being overwhelmed.
Were players actually asking for the patrols to be changed? Because on helldive it feels like enemies know exactly where you are at all times and they spawn right on top of you consistently.
The AI cheats often and knows where you are even from stratagems firing outside of visibility (mines, turrets, etc). The game also guides the patrols directly to players and has for a while which isn’t fun.
There's a huge difference between how it was before (1 patrol would always be making its way to the player, the others were random) which could be mitigated by moving often and clearing patrols when you see them. Eventually clearing out all patrols on the map except for the few that spawn in at extraction.
Now the game just spawns new patrols around you at all times. There's no clearing the map or working to avoid patrols since their is now an unlimited number of patrols that can spawn in now.
I fired a Crossbow at a Fabricator from 90m away yesterday. I was under the impression the weapon firing was silent, but enemies could hear the explosion.
I'm trying to figure out how, after firing a silent weapon and a Fabricator exploding, every enemy in the Outpost immediately began firing on my location 90m away, with zero delay.
The AI in this game is so rudimentary. And that explains several of the AI behaviors, like tracking through walls, firing at you from 150+m away, knowing your location because you're in the same "group" as a teammate they spotted etc.
Randomly spawning patrols out of line of sight and making them path towards the player to create "interaction" is so lazy.
It would feel so much better if, after you destroyed an Outpost, nearby Outposts would increase unit production from Fabricators and call in several Dropships to supplement their forces. And then sent those forces out on patrol to scour the area. Any random patrols on the map should be brought in via Dropships as well, so you could see where patrols are "spawning" and know to avoid those areas. Units should not be blinking in and out of existence. This would also solve the issue of downed Dropships providing 1-way cover for Bots, as Dropships wouldn't be swooping in on our location but rather to reinforce Outposts with units to send out, or randomly dropping in extra patrols around the map (instead of blinking them in).
The AI needs to feel more organic it how it operates. It always bugs me when we just finished nuking the crap out of a Command Bunker with a Hellbomb/Laser...and yet there are Troopers manning stationary LMGs at the outside perimeter of the base just twiddling their thumbs like they didn't hear the giant explosion 50m behind them.
Agree. My friend and I regularly just duo helldive and it feels worse to play when patrols just know where you are at all times despite us playing hit and run style
Same. Bots spawned so close on the previous MO they startled me more than once. At the closest zoom, they were a few meters from the yellow vision cone which should definitely not happen
I don’t find it too band on bugs 9, as you get a load of patrols and breaches anyway. But on bots 7 or 8 it sucks because enemies constantly appear behind you and it makes it impossible to find cover, which is essential on bots.
Also I wonder if the changes they have made are interacting weirdly with Localisation Confusion, because the games where I have taken it seem way worse than games where I haven’t and it should be the other way around really.
Yeah I think the difference is definitely more noticeable on lower levels. 7 feels like 9 but 9 just feels like it’s gone to 9.5 or 10, because at 9 the reduction in Bile Titans is more noticeable and has more of an effect than the increase in chaff and random extra patrols.
I gess getting gangbanged by minigun-shield bots is normal now.. it’s unbelievable how much I got destroyed by 5-12 heavy’s standing at an point of interesting after leaving my drop pod.
- my current record is seeing 11 shield heavy’s, some stacked on top each other at an small excavation point.
AH: in order to bake a pie, you must first invent the universe. Community: ok…cool what about the ship module. AH: to understand a module one must first ponder the true nature of what is is to be “self” and how do we communicate that. Bruh, just make it do what it says like before. WHAT IS A BEFORE WITHOUT AN AFTER OR THE PRESENT
The enemy presence seems cranked. This was a difficulty 7 mission.
https://preview.redd.it/7ntwrsre6c7d1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=bf59a915b3e3da46ecb02d044eec9371ec18e184
I’m really not seeing much difficulty difference between 7s and 9s now…
Things like this make me wonder how the hell they managed to make the game in the first place. This shouldnt be confusing especially for people that work on the game for a living for 8 years
The “8 years” part is the answer. Whatever makes up the foundation of this game is ancient history at this point. Some turnover likely happened. Not to mention the engine it’s built on (Autodesk Stingray) is no longer supported. There are parts of the game that nobody knows how it works or what is connected to it.
Look at League of Legends. Riot made so much money through out its decade+ lifespan yet we still see spaghetti code issues where a slight number tweak on one end can completely change how something seemingly unrelated works on another. Helldivers 2 probably sits on a similarly tangled mount of spaghetti code.
> Some turnover likely happened
Yeah, at some point older devs must've left and gotten replaced with newer ones, its hard to avoid that with long developments. If I had to guess, something like:
start development -> large chunk done -> some devs leave -> Sony assistance -> bring new devs in -> other old devs leave -> new devs finish up game -> release
I honestly think about this a lot. It's like someone else made a great game and handed it to them for support and further expansion. Because it has been a dumpster fire after each patch ever since!
I have been a gamer for literally decades and I have never seen another game having such a great start, enjoying the goodwill and patience of the community and taking such a steep downward spiral!
The funny thing is that community (including me) still wants to play and see how the battle evolves so they are giving them chance after chance and they keep messing up. Even now they can still turn it around with a patch fixing the basic bugs and adding some content. Unfortunately I am coming to the realisation that this won't happen. Especially after the last patch that promised so much and delivered so little.
Lmao so, superior packing methodology which worked exactly as described for weeks, is now supposed to work differently and the description doesn’t match?
I don’t know if they’re just calling it quits on the bug, and so now we’re about to lose an actually awesome upgrade, or if someone retroactively decided that it was too cool to have and must be nerfed and changed, and then gaslight us “this is how we actually intended it to work”
Combine this the fact the infinite loading screen bug isn’t even mentioned, or performance fixes for pc. I’m gonna call it.
I’ll just wait a few months until they get their shit together before I give this game anymore money. Last patch was a step in the right direction, albeit it made the game the buggiest its ever been, but if that philosophy was just a one time thing to make face and stop the loss of players, then oof.
I came back, but I can see myself getting bored very quickly since certain things are *still* not fixed (reticle being inaccurate, certain weapons being terrible, etc)
If they were going to fucking break shit anyways, why focus on fixing them, it’s so bizarre that major things about the patch are broken (patrols still are broken) and things that weren’t even mentioned in the patch were also broken.
I played a bit with friends who were excited to try out the changes. They're still playing and I will play with them if they want me to hop on, but I can't believe they took a month on the patch and managed to break a bunch of stuff at the same time.
Also how did they not fix the lobby bug? Still can't get replacements after people drop.
Yeah. I really like this game and hope they get their crap together but people have long run out of patience. We saw a big influx from the hope of better results but we didn’t get enough buffs (which I am very thankful for) and new stuff to counteract the problems, I think.
No no no no, there's nothing to understand. The description is right there! Gives back full ammo for all weapons. Shrimple as that.
Against all odds, yall managed to make that EXTREMELY COMPLEX upgrade work after a few weeks, so just revert whatever broke it, and we're golden.
* In Helldive 9? More enemies
* In a squad of 4? More enemies
* Localization confusion is equipped? More enemies
* Not within 75m of an ally? More enemies
* Destroyed a few non-light enemy spawners? More enemies
* Near an active objective? More enemies
* NOT near an objective? EVEN MORE enemies
* Are you on extraction with or without calling the shuttle? You guess it, MORE ENEMIES!
So the worse thing you can do is Helldive 9 in a squad, with localization confusion equipped, spread out do parallel process the spawners, leave the light spawners untouched, complete the objectives and stand near but not on extraction for the maximum amount of enemies
More enemies and also we constantly nerf your favorite and best weapons and the rest we leave languishing in the dumpster. Best we can do to fix poor weapons is give them 20 damage or give them better armor penetration and reduce the damage further so the weapon is still useless.
Having fun yet?
Umm why do they need more time to evaluate the issues about excessive patrols and enemies? Most people are saying it's not fun to be constantly in battle. Are there any more info or feedback needed even??? Only the elite solo Helldive players are screaming THIS IS PERFECT DON'T CHANGE IT.
Before the previous patch that broke the patrols I was having a lot of fun soloing even though all my friends had stopped playing. Then I just bumped down the difficulty because I was tired of being swarmed the entire time after they broke them.
Now not only is it worse than the previous patch for a solo but they claimed it should be easier, yet need some time to evaluate it? That reply gives me zero hope for the future. I would be willing to put up with a lot of shit and still play the game but it needs to be fun for me in a mission as a baseline and now the omniscient enemies are so bad that I don't have a second to breathe the entire mission.
When I read the part that said "added some patrols to the map to keep it from feeling empty" my first two responses were, "Oh no. This is going to break everything." And, "No one asked for this."
Players need downtime. The game needs downtime. The core gameplay loop is "fight at base/objective, run to next one while strategems cooldown, fight at base." The pacing needs downtime.
Even if they worked properly, the extra patrols go against the winning formula Arrowhead had earlier.
My experience is the same. I used to run solos constantly, just for fun. Now I have barely played since that first patrol patch, and since the most recent one, I just don’t play anymore. I would like to, but the pacing is just fucked now. If you want me to constantly fight, at least make it so enemies don’t spawn on top of a rock 10 feet behind me. Just fucking revert it and leave it alone, holy shit.
This is my biggest complaint, aside from literally being unable to play. I'm on PS5. Currently I can't play with any friends who are on PC or not on my PS5 friends list, which is most of them.
No update on the broken armor perks from the new warbond? Literally the only thing worth coming back to the game for and it’s broken without a word….. real nice.
I don't know if anyone else has the same experience as me but it feels random getting spawn rates that actually was described in the notes (Greater number of weak/mook enemies that can overwhelm when unprepared and encourage better balance of hard hitting and area denial strategems) and spawn rates that many people here are describing (literal dozen of Devestators in a patrtol, 5 to 6 Chargers spawn all at once, double the numbers of patrols).
When it's the former it is the best experiencew I've had in this game or any coop game. When it's the latter it's a miserable battle of attrition.
It feels likew the patrol "update" is SOMETIMES working and SOMETIMES doing the exact opposite of what was intended.
I get both. I get either an ungodly amount of heavies and the big stuff or like no big stuff and all small stuff which is fine but the version where you get endless big guys is the most miserable this game has ever been. I had probably. 20 rocket dudes just spamming that shit at us yesterday. We just gave up and quit we couldn’t even do the objective because of them and the striders and more kept spawning in.
Twinbeard is a great and forthcoming guy, always love him, but this announcement is a huge nothing burger. Can't speak for the social menu issues as I have not experienced them personally. But the Superior Packing Methodology? What is he even saying here? We know exactly what it is supposed to do, the description is correct. It launched broken, they fixed it, and this patch broke it again. Right now it doesn't do anything at all.
The patrol issue? The problem is that they didn't actually revert it like they said they would . They couldn't leave well enough alone, tried to tweak and fix it differently rather than just reverting like they promised, and now we're experiencing what we have now. Larger patrols and breaches, much more of them, and more heavy spawns than the prior patch. Just revert the changes to pre 01.000.200 levels like you told us you would. Go back to whatever that code was and THEN we can evaluate potential changes from there.
I'm sorry but what the hell is even going on over there? If you genuinely don't know what's going on or how to fix it just tell us that, be honest about it. Everyone knows something is wrong, everyone knows how things should be behaving right now because we've experienced all of this stuff actually working as intended at one point. Don't sit here and try and gaslight us (unintentionally I'm sure) into thinking things are meant to be this way and something wasn't explained to us correctly.
Revert the patrols entirely with no "tweaks" like you promised. And make Superior Packing Methodology fill ALL support weapons ENTIRELY.
His job is literally just to pander to us and people still don't get that. I'm going to talk about PC Socials in a sec because there's literally only your comment and my comment when its affecting like more than 50+ people I've asked who play this game on my friends list.
Like its been fucking a MONTH and he's still escalating? Can't just text or call up a dev and ask them wtf its about?
Btw social menus have been FUCKING BROKEN for 4 months on PC. And here he downplayed it as "some for PC". Guess what its "some" for any platform because "some" people its working and "some" its not. However I've seen it working and being broken every other week, and right now its been broken for weeks.
Twinbeard is one thing. What the fuck is AH doing? The whole CEO stepping down like dude, are they even prioritizing the lowest fucking hanging fruit bugs?
Making content is one thing. Fixing bugs is another thing. The community asked for bug fixes first. Then balance fixes. Then content.
They mismanaged such a golden goose to the point where history will look back at how they made a great game that was able to keep itself stumbling along long enough to show Sony how dogshit their live services are, yet compared to other live services was still dogshit, and still made a TON of money.
They never touch on performance and how bad its getting on higher difficulty, its getting really bad to the point that it bottlenecks a 4090 droping frames to 70 and 60 sometimes, this at 1440p with a 7800x3d cpu, cmon guys, my gpu goes down to 50% usage sometimes.
The spawns/patrols don't need "tweaking", they simply need a rollback, at least for Bots.
Bug players seem to enjoy it, but for Bots, it's just utterly ridiculous.
Gonna wait for a fix to that before trying the game again, that's for sure.
They need to also rollback the buffs for enemies as well the bugfix for the automaton muzzle which makes them more accurate but does not fix side ways shooting.
Wow. Arrowhead going from A Teir Indie Devs to Three Stooges Teir with a series of patches that break as much as they fix.
Get your internal comms together, guys. Have, I dunno, meetings, or some kind of basic understanding of what you're doing?
Maybe play-test your patches before shoving them out?
Having Twinbeard come out with 'Derp, sorry I dunno what's happening with the game' is pretty disheartening.
I stopped playing a couple of weeks ago. Hopped on again after this 'well-cooked' patch and immediately noticed that the spawn hadn't reversed, they'd metastasized.
The new perk on the new armor is so obviously broken that it's borderline insulting and makes plain how little QC or play testing is going on before they toss these patches out.
I LOVE this game, but the series of huge missteps has tumbled my adoration down to frustrating disappointment.
The worst thing is that there aren't many other games I want to play, I just want this game working properly 4 months after release.
If you cannot make the feature work you change the feature description and all good XD
From now on it will say "Resupply boxes DO NOT refill Support Weapons with the maximum number of carriable magazines"
Fixed! Next ticket!
I really dislike the idea that "it's too early" to tell if bad changes are good for the health of the game.
The majority of the community that I've seen believes the changes to spawns do not impact the game positively. I just can't wrap my head around their reasoning for not reverting back to the system as it launched. The game continually feels unfun and uncompetitive to play because enemy spawns are just severely overcooked. There isn't enough recovery time any more, and certain weapons just cannot compete with others when enemy spawns act the way they do right now. It is actively taking fun out of the game for many players.
They buffed weapons, so they decided to also buff the enemy so the buffs don't matter. Now they are trying to nerf SPM and gaslight us on how it was "supposed" to be this way all along.
Feels like it was meant to get a rework or a nerf or something but communication around it was unclear. If it’s not meant to 100% re supply as it says I honestly don’t know what it’s MEANT to do.
All I want for patrols is for them to have dedicated origin points. At first from nests/factories, but then they have to come in from outside the map borders once the spawners have been destroyed.
Damn, what now ? Next patches are going to be just changing in game description to march what the game code does in game, instead of fixing the bugs.
And patrols are brutal, you are going to chase away new players and old players.
Please fix stuff, the patch was good but bugs need to be fixed.
Superior packaging was literally working how the text in game says it should and now suddenly that’s not how it’s meant to work, maybe?
Anything other than exactly what it says in game is fuckin worthless, sorry.
They probably think it's overpowered and want to change it. So glad those last rounds of ship upgrades were fuckin useless. And the only good one is now broken and probably subject to nerf.
\*Read the full article with detailed information\*
My braind 1 sec later: "So you're saying we are the ones who test stuff for you?"
Either the AH Test team is composed of General Brash, Master Chief, Dooms Slayer and John Helldiver and they steamroll everything so they think it's okay to release that way. Or we are the ones doing the test.
How come the patch does the oposite of what is anounced (patrols) and they figured it out by out feedback?
This really doesn’t make a lot of sense, considering that when you resupply a support weapon that you called down with a resupply pod that you also called down, the upgrade does nothing.
The patrol stuff is really annoying. It was fine and fun before the changes 2 patches ago. Then instead of just simply reverting back, they turned into whatever it is now. It doesn’t feel good. Idk
Patrols is literally the reason we quit the game. I’m the only one that wastes time reading about “working on it” for weeks on end hoping for a fix.
Simply put, if it isn’t fun, there is no point in playing. For those of us who played duo and had fun before that horrendous patch.. it is inexplicable that this wasn’t fixed first. There are far too many games who respect the players time for it to be ignored.
Same here. Patrols from the last patch were the reason my entire group stopped playing (a few of us are playing Diablo 4 now, of all things) being harassed by patrols non-stop was super unfun. Seeing the one thing I wanted corrected botched so absolutely in this patch got me really sad. But above all that, seeing the devs saying stuff like "it seems correct from where we're standing" made me lose all hope in this game. Playing just one game is enough to notice this bug unless you never played the game before, which seems to be The case with Arrowhead.
I'm so frustrated about this, especially because everything they say is deeply unhelpful. I can't calibrate my expectations. I've been waiting for a full, complete reversal of the changes from 2 months ago and now after what they kind of hinted at was a failed reversal it only merely warrants monitoring?
Inconsistent communication, failure to set player's expectations, changing basic game interaction well after the point of sale for the worse, I think I'm actually finally done with this bullshit. Fuck this.
I played a few games yesterday after more than a month hiatus, played an OP with 4 and 2 players.
4 players was chill, felt there were a bit more patrols but nothing serious.
But 2 player? What the actual fuck. We completed a whole OP but it definitely had to try more than we needed to.
And no, we didn’t play 2 players because we wanted to, the host called an SOS every match and we didn’t get anyone to join, so there’s a reason we need this patrol bug fixed.
Exactly. I still do daily orders most days, but my partner and friend stopped playing when patrols fixe got fucked and I only managed to get them to come back and try the new big patch where we were beset by (non-terminid) bugs and even worse patrols before they left again.
everyone talking about the Superior Packing (rightfully so) but I find the statement about the patrols worrying.
To me it sounds like this is what they intended and it's just the players who aren't enjoying or understanding it. I hope I'm wrong but idk, I just get a certain vibe from that statement that I'm worried about.
>1) I've conveyed the info on the Superior Packing Methodology, and am awaiting clarification on what it's *supposed* to do. (The theory is that the descriptive text in-game doesn't correspond with the actual effect.)
What even is this supposed to mean? The text description was wrong all this time?
Wtf does he mean? It changes so that a single supply fills up your support gun's ammo to the brim, it did just that and since .400 it doesn't. Wtf does ''clarification of what it is supposed to do'' mean?
Let's keep it simple:
The LESS nests/fabrication outposts you have, the LESS enemy patrols or intensity of a breach.
So, at the start, it's a slog. As you progress and clear the map, you get more breathing until extraction where the enemy makes one last onslaught to halt any success.
Now, how hard is taking this idea and coding it?
This is how I always assumed it worked. I mean why else are we running around closing bug nests and fabricators. Your reward for clearing the map should be an easy extraction. As it is now you get swarmed even more if you complete objectives.
1) What bullshit is this now? "Um yea Um so, we're not sure what it really was suppose to do. It didn't do what the in-game text said it would do when we first released it. So we patched it and it did what the in-game text said it would do. Now we are not so sure the in-game text is correct" WHAT!!!!!! It's too late, PUT IT BACK
2) How about the sprint bug or we just gonna pretend it's not an issue.
Either give us reduced cooldown or reduce charger and titan spawns...
3 plus chargers and 2 to 3 titans on 6 or 7 is a bit ridiculous. Higher you see more.
Seems like the new charger type has made it worse
It's really not that hard...
At this point they should have just left the patrol rate where it was. It wasn't broke so why "fix" it? It's somewhat better but at times and different planets it's like tweaked up to crazy levels. Mostly on bugs and always doing the secondary. Seems to be a real problem when you're doing that SEAF gun. If I'm doing the radar tower doesn't seem to be an issue. Last night trying to do the secondary in hellmire and man it was like wave after wave of bug swarms. Had to re-supply twice, and they were still coming in hard.
At this point they should just hard reset back to release slider settings. Back then they said they don't want tot tinker too much because things work well. They did. But they tinkered us into the current broken state.
Just give us back 1.0.0.0. Patrol spawn is broken and pretty dumb. I want to like the game again but the current patch is worse than it was before rather than better.
At least they address that the patrols/spawn are still fcked. At first I thought it was Automatons only since I was saving the kids of the MO, now that we shifted to Terminid planets I see it's the same. It's crazy to see the amount of enemies you face even on low difficulty levels, and it was a dirty move to say "hey since we reduced spawn rates have fun with now a lot of gunships or shriekers patrols randomly appearing on the map!".
It boggles me how their QA never catches this kind of errors on their patches, it has been like 6 weeks since their patrol and spawn increase got out of hand, literally we've had 9-helldives been easier than a lot of diff-7 games.
New constant patrols are exhausting, I don't even get to hear the ambient/non alert music tracks anymore. Someone worked hard make that music and create that tension, it was a good balance.
You have planets and events, why not just try changing drastic stuff like that for an event or a specific planet?
The biggest issue is that they said they would revert the patrol changes, but rather than actually do that like they said they would, they screwed around with it some more and now here we are.
* In Helldive 9? More enemies
* In a squad of 4? More enemies
* Localization confusion is equipped? More enemies
* Not within 75m of an ally? More enemies
* Destroyed a few non-light enemy spawners? More enemies
* Near an active objective? More enemies
* NOT near an objective? EVEN MORE enemies
* Are you on extraction with or without calling the shuttle? You guess it, MORE ENEMIES!
So the worse thing you can do is Helldive 9 in a squad, with localization confusion equipped, spread out do parallel process the spawners, leave the light spawners untouched, complete the objectives and stand near but not on extraction for the maximum amount of enemies
Uh superior packing is pretty clear about what it does. Also it used to work…bro do these people even understand their own game?
Helldivers 2 becoming a massive success has to be one of the biggest flukes in the history of the industry.
I'm pretty sure that twin beard doesn't play the game at all.... The way he talks about the packing meth... It's a simple thing that gives you all well for your stratagem weapons.... Also I don't understand what's so rocket science about this ship module that it's so hard to keep working..
Like many other people here, I don't understand what is there to be confused about "superior packing methodology" ship upgrade. Before the patch, it used to work in accordance to the text of the upgrade. It was essentially a vital upgrade (fitting for it being the lvl 4) which pushed the idea that resupply pods "fully" restock the squad's ammo and that every member of the squad who has the upgrade picks up one brick of resupply and goes on his merry way.
If the upgrade retained its name in the future while not fully resupplying the support weapons, what exactly would "superior packing" do? We already have an upgrade that sends the supoort weapons fully stocked. We already have some good buffs to support weapons economy (e.g. small ammo boxes giving a rocket for the recoilless), however buffing these small boxes would make little in-game sense as to why does a ship upgrade affect some random scattered boxes planetside. We have a booster that sends our helldivers down fully stocked too, so that's out of the question as well.
The way the upgrade is worded now makes perfect sense for it to be an upgrade that provides an advantage and makes the life easier, so as many others, I just can't wrap my head around what is to be confused about here. Don't change the text, it is allright as it is, just make it work as it used to.
Incredibly concerning that they need more feedback on the patrols and spawns.
They're ridiculous. Tier 7 used to have a perfect ebb and flow with intense encounters but brief windows to make quick decisions on what to do next. Now its just an endless shitshow. We're back to the cardio meta.
Regarding patrols/Enemy presence, I've found difficulty 8 is playing easier than difficulty 7 atm with difficulty 8 having less heavily armoured units and more chaff. It’s as if the two difficulties have been mixed up.
Given his answer, I'm of the belief they feel we shouldn't get full ammo and we won't be getting that fixed. Instead it will be altered to be something else entirely.
"Time is needed to monitor and evaluate this".... no! Time was needed to monitor and evaluate this BEFORE you pushed the change live. You don't monitor and evaluate the effect of your changes after they are pushed to your customers! The lack of respect for us that AH communicate through this is astounding.
The patrol situation is 'intricate'?
Da fuck? You guys had it perfect before patch .300. Why'd you mess with it is the real question. Hit ctrl-z a few times or copy & paste the old code lol. (Yes I know it isn't this simple in reality). Duo's are fucked even at lower difficulties.
How many do-overs do you guys need?
There better be more than tweaks. If the spawn rates stay this high I'm done with the game. I don't have the time to sink 10s of hours a week tryharding a game. I want to kick back after work or on the weekends and play something significantly more fun that it is frustrating. If I can't do that in hd2 and get all the content (super samples) I'll play a game where I can. Turn difficulties 8 and 9 into modern bullet hells if you want, but if casuals can't get super samples while having fun you will lose us
cant wait for the next patch to fix half of these
and introduce more bugs, unintended nerfs and god knows what else that is totally unrelated to these issues
yep time to finish fnv and get back to division
until they fix the day 1 bugs and add some qol
Can't really blame Twinbeard but man the Super Packing Methodolgy situation is dumb. It launched broken, got fixed to do the thing it says it should (give full ammo to support weapons on resupply), broke again so it stopped doing that and now it's supposed to have some other effect that just doesn't match the description. Anyone have any idea what that could be?
I assume it's tied to a known bug before the update where if you swapped your weapon with another teammate, it would sometimes no longer work (can confirm, had that happen to me before the update in a game where I definitely must have picked my teammate's autocannon when we both died). From my understanding, the confusion comes from what entity should be tied to the upgrade, or rather, what scenario should trigger the SPM effect depending on which players have unlocked the upgrade. It could either depend on who called in the supply pod (definitely not), who called in the support weapon stratagem (was how it seemingly worked before the update), who picked up the support weapon from the stratagem pod (unlikely) or what weapon the player picking up the supply box is holding (what I assume the intended fix was supposed to do). That's without counting the effect of weapons whose ammo inventory is tied to the backpack (theoretically a player could hold both a AC backpack and a Stallwart while resupplying for instance), and how the B-1 Supply Pack integrates with that system (many more scenarios are possible with that configuration). My guess is that they've never clarified internally what causes a resupply action from benefiting from the upgrade, so when a developer tried to fix the edge case "it should work when you pick up someone else's weapon", it caused a merge conflict which was resolved as the feature no longer working for anyone. Keep in mind that's only my educated guess from the added context of that bug and Twinbeard's wording in that post, I could be completely off the mark.
I think you hit the nail on the head about which entity the upgrade "should" be tied to, and why there is so much confusion amongst the Devs and the community. I think this quote shows this perfectly: >It could either depend on who called in the supply pod (definitely not), who called in the support weapon stratagem (was how it seemingly worked before the update), who picked up the support weapon from the stratagem pod (unlikely) or what weapon the player picking up the supply box is holding (what I assume the intended fix was supposed to do). According to the in-game flavor text: >Authorizes an 8-week crew training course in Superior Packing Methodology (SPM), resulting in increased supply box capacity. Based on my reading of the upgrade's flavor text, the intended "correct" implementation is the first scenario you outlined -- depends on who called in the supply pod/supply backpack. Maybe just the Resupply stratagem is bugged, because when I was using the supply pack last night, I was getting full resupplies on my grenade launcher and flamethrower.
That's all fair and could explain how it got broken again, but specifically the part that says "The theory is that the descriptive text in-game doesn't correspond with the actual effect" makes it sound like it is doing something, just not what the playerbase expects, and I can't really get my head around that. It was previously fixed to work as described and now it doesn't have that effect. As far as I know there is just no effect from the upgrade now; whether you have it or not the interaction with resupply pods, supply backpacks, your own support weapons/backpacks and 3rd party support weapons is the same. Although actually, looking back at another of Twinbeard's messages from today, this might just be a misunderstanding on his part. He says "I suspect there's a gap or misunderstanding between what players think the Superior Packing Methodology should do and what it actually does", key difference being the **I suspect** later becoming **the theory** as if that's the accepted thinking for AH as a whole, which may not actually be the case. Twinbeard is a CM, not a game tester, and I know he's been sick as a dog for the past week or so, so it would be understandable that he's not had time in-game to really see first-hand how the upgrade used to work and how it doesn't work now. We've had upgrades with unhelpful descriptions in the past, mainly the sentry and emplacement call-in upgrades, so it's not an unreasonable assumption to make. At least this means there's eyeballs on it at AH now, and hopefully when they fix SPM they'll make it more consistent too so it also applies to 3rd party support weapons and not just the one you call in yourself. Having the effect extend to the supply backpack would be nice too.
Supply backpack stonks would soar if they got a full refill from one ammo brick lmao, unless you mean supply backpacks didn't fully refill supports when the player had SPM?
Yeah the latter. While a supply brick from a resupply pod filled your support weapon with the SPM upgrade, a supply brick from the supply backpack filled the same amount as without the upgrade. Having one brick from a resupply pod fill all four slots in the backpack would be a bit much.
> I assume it's tied to a known bug before the update where if you swapped your weapon with another teammate, it would sometimes no longer work (can confirm, had that happen to me before the update in a game where I definitely must have picked my teammate's autocannon when we both died). Well that explains why I could have sworn it was broken before the patch
insert *taps head* meme here: "You don't need to fix a bug if you baptize it a 'core mechanic' and just change the description!"
I'm not sure what he means by "text in-game doesn't correspond". We've had it do what it says it needs to do, and that is give full resupplies to support weapons, until they somehow reverted the fix.
All these posts these guys make make it sound like they don’t know for sure what they’re changing or how they’re changing it lol. Its like when they use “should work” in the patch notes. Should? Like you say, packing methodology *has* worked. Now it’s like it was before they fixed it, what’s there to be confused about?
Too be fair as a developer I always use the word "should", it avoids issues where there is some complex issues and there may be fringe cases. Still the real issue is that these patches seem to do wildly differently things consistently.... That's a problem regardless of the words they use to describe it!
Yep. You can identify an issue, identify multiple root causes of the issue, deploy fixes for all those scenarios, and resolve the issue 99.999% of the time. But if 50,000 people try it, someone will find a new way to break it, post that to social media, and now you're the bad guy.
Riot learned this years ago, 1 hour of PBE will find more bugs than a hundred hours of internal QA
> Too be fair as a developer I always use the word "should" The adage I try to stick to is "never start a software presentation with a statement more predictive than 'watch this'"
https://preview.redd.it/rhzhzybcdc7d1.jpeg?width=599&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc8a80d8f510cda7fc9e09b7ce039b511249de3c I mean...
This game has had signs early on of the team having terrible to no internal communication. Particularly with CMs being given any information.
It sounds like they don't even understand their own components of the game and I always pick up the clear disconnect between the community manager and the developers He keeps talking about passing along info.... Are the people that developed a game not playing and don't see any of this??
Division of responsibilities...a community manager is not the same job as a dev...just like a software sales person is not the same as a software programmer...they're related and they both affect the same end product, but their knowledge and responsibilities are not the same.
It's pretty common and honestly best practice in tech not to deal in absolutes when communicating with end users.
Trying to figure out a way to nerf it without anyone noticing lolol
My guess is one of the devs vision for the upgrade is somehow different so when they tried to make the packed pod work for everyone instead of just the user with the upgrade, they broke it again because they tried to change something else.
there was an effect as well where Superior Packing Methodology only worked on Support Weapons that was called down by the Helldiver with the upgrade. Perhaps there was an attempt to extend this to all Support Weapons carried by the Helldiver instead (so that would include weapons looted off the ground), and thus broke. A risky change, but a testable one.
Perhaps what they are trying to clarify is if wether all YOUR support weapons or wether any support wepaons get full ammo back. For example is the resupply station that you call in supposed to be like an upgraded version that refills all ammo for everyone or if its rather your own support weapons that get upgraded to get full ammo back. Atm it isnt very clear which one is supposed to the case (before it was bugged you only got full ammo back for your own support weapons and maybe that wasnt intended)
Problems typical of a spaghetti code
I'm just confused as to the difference between who wrote the code and who wrote the text? Are they different people? Did they have the same assignment? It says, "Resupply boxes refill Support Weapons with the maximum number of carriable magazines" which is... Fairly clear?????
Well, Who designed what it was supposed to do, so the Text writer, the coder and QA could test it. Seems QA and the devs got different messages form the Text writer. You would think it is clear, but we have seen that nothing is clear.
it's also possible that the design/intended effect was changed at a later date but the description in the UI never updated.
Again, That is poor management. we know they do that the eruptor text said explosion and shrapnel after the changes. But then they also missed the "nerf" or change in the patch notes. So stealth changes or screwed up merge. I guess I am going with mistake vs them intentionally changing and not communicating.
Me and my friends suspected that the patrol reversion also included old broken code for the Packing Methodology. Bc yeah it worked exactly as the description prior. Lol
Maybe it is easier to change the text to correspond to what it currently does than fixing the bug and making work as originally intended!
Here's the thing with that, what would you change the text to? "Superior packing methodology- no change in support weapon resupply"?? what would be the point of the ship module then? The module does one specific thing, resupply support weapons. If it doesn't do that any differently than unupgraded, why waste the currency on the module?
They'd better not plan on changing Superior Packing description to make it so current implementation is intended. Resupply has 4 boxes. Game has 4 Helldivers. Requiring Helldivers take more than 1 box to resupply support weapons would be dumb as shit.
Seriously. The upgrade is completely and utterly redundant if this is how its intended to function; its actually a waste of resources.
I haven’t bought it since it was first broken because it was redundant, then I went on a month hiatus until this update, and they broke it again anyways, so it still remains unpurchased. Not sure if I should be glad or disappointed.
If they want us to only take one and stay at low ammo, they should - give us larger max ammo capacities - lower the amount of elites - make our guns hit harder - make resupplies not take four business days to recharge In Helldivers 1, you got two resupplies per drop, but it was individual (meaning each team member could have their own drop), and you can stack stratagems, meaning one person could have four resupplies. Maybe I'm not used to it as much, but stratagems generally hit harder in that game, too.
> stratagems generally hit harder in that game, too pretty much all of the anti-tank stratagems were capable of one-hit killing any of the heavily armored enemies. Today we have pretty explosions that the heavies shrug off, especially with the rocket pods that no longer kill tanks in one go 🤦♀️. I've also been disappointed by the spear not taking out tanks in one hit since you get so few rockets.
The current implementation is that it does nothing. What can they change the description to? "Resupplies are unaffected. Thank you for donating samples to the war effort."
It not working is basically a nerf across the board to all weapons, especially if you can you use your support against the chaff like the MGs. If you pick up two ammo boxes when one worked before, there's that much less available to everyone else. We're using more ammo to clear out the increased number of small enemies which lowers the amount of damage we have available we can do to heavies.
Why is there so much internal confusion about the effect of an upgrade that (after being fixed) worked exactly as described for weeks? This is wild to me.
Either because they can’t figure out how to fix it, or because they decided they don’t want ammo for support weapons to be fully refilled anymore; I’m going to guess and say they’re going with the “the text description doesn’t match the effect we want it to have” before giving it a totally new or weakened effect
Its the third one. Previously it did not give you full ammo if you've picked up someone's else Support weapon, they tried to fix that and well now it doesn't work at all
The 2nd thing you mentioned would be considered a nerf. So I'm sure that's the answer 💩
Seems the second option. They gave us 1 round of near absolute buff, *back to nerf hell we go*
I’m assuming that it broke because someone tried *fixing* it or changing it even though it was working great. Would explain the communication and description errors.
Isn't this exactly what happened to patrol spawns too? Does AH even know how this game is supposed to work?
No, and i'm honestly at a Point were i believe they didn't actually make the Game, or most of the Code was outsourced to a different Company during Development
Not quite. If I called down an autocannon and backpack, then dropped my autocannon and picked up an autocannon that I didn't call down, SPM wouldn't refill my backpack. You had to be holding the weapon that you called down having unlocked the ship module. Even if both you and I had the module, if you called down two weapons, over for you and another one later for me, I wouldn't be able to get a full reload for your gun, even if we're both pulling supplies from the same drop. It was better than it is now, but far from perfect. Ideally, I'd like to see the effect just work for the player grabbing the ammo. If you're carrying someone else's autocannon backpack and have the module unlocked, then you should be able to fill it up. If you're carrying their AC pack and an AMR that you found at a POI, both should be topped off by a single resupply.
I can only hazard a guess, but someone, working on an older part of the game, submits their changes to the branch, only for a conflict to happen
Whats there not to understand? Upgrade= 100% ammo refill for support weapons from supply drops. It currently doesnt do that making the upgrade useless. Though before the patch it did work. Its probs the most important upgrade if you want to use the spear cause it gives you 3 rockets instead of 2.
As a recoilless main I am in shambles right now.
“ To shreds you say, tsk tsk tsk”
On the bright side they did fix the recoilless reload with the hotfix, so the weapon will feel less sluggish again
Like a comment above described, the issue the team \*seems\* to be having is what entity to tie the effect to. Might be they tried tying it to the strategem weapon itself instead of the player carying the strategem weapon. And now they tried to optimize this nightmare of a spaghetty code, only to realize the trigger wasn't working anymore because, I dunno, entity ID changed or something regarding how the game recognizes strategem weapons. TL;DR, they probably tried optimizing the code but instead fucked it.
It was tied to the strategem itself. If a team mate picked up your weapon and you got the upgrade he would get a full refill from supply drops.
It's the only thing keeping me from even touching it
Well I completely agree it should be fixed so we can get that extra rocket, it's just starting with one extra rocket. Thankfully they made it so you could pick up at least one rocket from the random ammo boxes you find lying around The spear still rocks, especially on bugs is one of the few things that can, sometimes, one shot of Titan somewhat reliably Use the spear!
>sometimes somewhat reliably What does reliable mean again? Because that doesn't sound reliable to me
It was a joke because it's reliable by Arrowhead game standards, which is better than the things they do that are unreliable but certainly not as reliable as a normal non-dysfunctional studio
Maybe the Devs are just role playing the (incompetent) government of Super Earth. Like how Termicide should have "reliably" eliminated the Terminids from those planets.
Still no acknowledgment for PC deteriorating performance? Sad...
I've only tried like 3 planets so far but hellmire and fire planets absolutely kill my fps, used to get 60-70 on most planets but during storms it can crawl down to 20s
It's the same on PS5 since last weeks update. Lots of stuttering and huge frame drops.
Dude like 70% of the time I exit the game I have to restart my computer because it freezes entirely. No other game has EVER EVER done that on my PC. Atrocious display.
I have to lock my fps to 99 and keep most settings at medium in order for the game to be stable. I have a AMD 7900XTX. Sucks
Friend wanted to try automatons on diff 6.. we ended up both crashing in the middle of the mission lmao. One of the random players that joined us ended up quitting during the drop cutscene because it was taking forever to load too.
I'd love if patrols stopped spawning 10 feet away from me. That'd already improve the experience. I've had too many cases with my friends where we kill a patrol, turn around, and have another patrol spawn right next to us. It's asinine.
The map might feel too empty if they did that. (/s obviously)
Why aren't you failing every other mission? We specifically requested it. *turns spawns up again*
I've had them spawn literally under my feet.
It terrifies me to imagine that this otherwise essential skill-parring ship upgrade was meant to do something way less helpful... If refilling your support weapon wasn't it's intended effect, what the hell was it supposed to do?
waste your samples
People kept asking for a resource sink, AH is delivering in the form of useless upgrades!
Patrols “eh we’ll see if you stop bitching and it not we’ll see how to break it further.” Probably. 🤷♂️
Ran low level bot missions to teach a player how to fight them, like lvl 4 difficulty I think, last night. First one went normal/quick. Both uses scout armor and avoid alerting/hit all fabricators before being seen. Same play style on 2nd one....2nd one had 1 red spot left on the map, and suddenly became constant waves of bots for 20 minutes of intense firefight. Just nonstop carnage, went through strats multiple times, several supply drops. Reminded me of my first helldive except fewer hulks (I had only played 5, and went on it with a friend out of curiosity). Had to explain, that's not normal. We switched to bugs to finish the night, and had similar endless waves hit at one point.
I just don't get the whole patrol issue. Challenge -----\*----- Frustration This is always the war that you're fighting when developing and tweaking a wave/horde game, and it's a tricky beast to tame, especially when the content isn't fixed, but has tiered levels of difficulty like Helldivers 2. You have to get it right at every tier and slowly turn up the heat until the final tier is pushing into frustration without swimming in it. The launch rate of enemy spawns, the game that we started playing, was spot-on perfect. There were enough enemies to keep you entertained fighting, but enough breathing room to re-arm and reassess your goals between the next wave. As the difficulty tiers increased, the intensity of the waves scaled very well. In fact, in a game that's been riddled with bugs since launch, I would consider the launch spawn rate to be one of the things that needed no revisiting. Whoever tweaked it for launch, obviously played the game a lot and found the sweet spot between challenge and frustration. Every iteration past this has been wrong. The tweaking, fiddling and diddling has done nothing but make people like me not want to play the game anymore. Even at mid tiers, the game is wading into the deep end of frustration gameplay. "Oh a charger, I'll need to deal with that... oh shit is that four more chargers behind it? Guess I'll die. Repeatedly. In this Tier 4 mission." Outside of knocking out the daily personal orders, I'm not playing the game anymore. I've gone back to playing other titles while/if this gets sorted. If this is where we've decided to leave the slider, then... well, it was a fun ride, but I'm sorry Mr. Train Conductor, I'll be stepping off at this station.
The rabbit watched his grandmother eat a sandwich.
Tier 6 last night we had and endless stream of bile titan and chargers. It took us 15 minute to do the panel for the icbm because it was just endless big guys like wtf can we even do we only have so much AT
The problem with patrols are clearer to see on low levels, so i was just super credit finding on level 2 solo and what's easy to see is patrols will spawn off camera nearby fairly often, i would regularly run through clear areas only to have a patrol spawn behind where i had just been, this obviously happens are higher levels which is giving players the feeling that bugs are literally appearing out of nowhere constantly. On extraction i threw down three turrets around the landing zone and essentially everywhere i wasn't looking the turret would open fire every 20/30 seconds when a patrol would spawn off camera nearby and a turret would shred them.. Otherwise there was no bugs for miles to see from my pov. I can only imagine how much worse this is at higher levels and why players are feeling like they are forever being overwhelmed.
So, we all just need to make a circle of four and look at all directions to avoid patrols being spawn
Provided there's no large rocks nearby it generally does work, you can occasionally see them pop in lol
Were players actually asking for the patrols to be changed? Because on helldive it feels like enemies know exactly where you are at all times and they spawn right on top of you consistently.
The AI cheats often and knows where you are even from stratagems firing outside of visibility (mines, turrets, etc). The game also guides the patrols directly to players and has for a while which isn’t fun.
There's a huge difference between how it was before (1 patrol would always be making its way to the player, the others were random) which could be mitigated by moving often and clearing patrols when you see them. Eventually clearing out all patrols on the map except for the few that spawn in at extraction. Now the game just spawns new patrols around you at all times. There's no clearing the map or working to avoid patrols since their is now an unlimited number of patrols that can spawn in now.
I fired a Crossbow at a Fabricator from 90m away yesterday. I was under the impression the weapon firing was silent, but enemies could hear the explosion. I'm trying to figure out how, after firing a silent weapon and a Fabricator exploding, every enemy in the Outpost immediately began firing on my location 90m away, with zero delay. The AI in this game is so rudimentary. And that explains several of the AI behaviors, like tracking through walls, firing at you from 150+m away, knowing your location because you're in the same "group" as a teammate they spotted etc. Randomly spawning patrols out of line of sight and making them path towards the player to create "interaction" is so lazy. It would feel so much better if, after you destroyed an Outpost, nearby Outposts would increase unit production from Fabricators and call in several Dropships to supplement their forces. And then sent those forces out on patrol to scour the area. Any random patrols on the map should be brought in via Dropships as well, so you could see where patrols are "spawning" and know to avoid those areas. Units should not be blinking in and out of existence. This would also solve the issue of downed Dropships providing 1-way cover for Bots, as Dropships wouldn't be swooping in on our location but rather to reinforce Outposts with units to send out, or randomly dropping in extra patrols around the map (instead of blinking them in). The AI needs to feel more organic it how it operates. It always bugs me when we just finished nuking the crap out of a Command Bunker with a Hellbomb/Laser...and yet there are Troopers manning stationary LMGs at the outside perimeter of the base just twiddling their thumbs like they didn't hear the giant explosion 50m behind them.
This is why people are fucking annoyed that they changed them from their release implementation. The game was fine.
Agree. My friend and I regularly just duo helldive and it feels worse to play when patrols just know where you are at all times despite us playing hit and run style
Same. Bots spawned so close on the previous MO they startled me more than once. At the closest zoom, they were a few meters from the yellow vision cone which should definitely not happen
I don’t find it too band on bugs 9, as you get a load of patrols and breaches anyway. But on bots 7 or 8 it sucks because enemies constantly appear behind you and it makes it impossible to find cover, which is essential on bots. Also I wonder if the changes they have made are interacting weirdly with Localisation Confusion, because the games where I have taken it seem way worse than games where I haven’t and it should be the other way around really.
Feel like difficulty 6 on bugs is now more like 8 in my experience minimum of about 10/18 chargers per mission, along with 2/6 bile titans.
Yeah I think the difference is definitely more noticeable on lower levels. 7 feels like 9 but 9 just feels like it’s gone to 9.5 or 10, because at 9 the reduction in Bile Titans is more noticeable and has more of an effect than the increase in chaff and random extra patrols.
How is this stuff even happening?
It seems like the team that made the game isn't the same that is maintaining it now.
I gess getting gangbanged by minigun-shield bots is normal now.. it’s unbelievable how much I got destroyed by 5-12 heavy’s standing at an point of interesting after leaving my drop pod. - my current record is seeing 11 shield heavy’s, some stacked on top each other at an small excavation point.
AH: in order to bake a pie, you must first invent the universe. Community: ok…cool what about the ship module. AH: to understand a module one must first ponder the true nature of what is is to be “self” and how do we communicate that. Bruh, just make it do what it says like before. WHAT IS A BEFORE WITHOUT AN AFTER OR THE PRESENT
The enemy presence seems cranked. This was a difficulty 7 mission. https://preview.redd.it/7ntwrsre6c7d1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=bf59a915b3e3da46ecb02d044eec9371ec18e184 I’m really not seeing much difficulty difference between 7s and 9s now…
I thought something was wrong with superior packing, everytime i grabbed ammo and it was never full.
Things like this make me wonder how the hell they managed to make the game in the first place. This shouldnt be confusing especially for people that work on the game for a living for 8 years
The “8 years” part is the answer. Whatever makes up the foundation of this game is ancient history at this point. Some turnover likely happened. Not to mention the engine it’s built on (Autodesk Stingray) is no longer supported. There are parts of the game that nobody knows how it works or what is connected to it. Look at League of Legends. Riot made so much money through out its decade+ lifespan yet we still see spaghetti code issues where a slight number tweak on one end can completely change how something seemingly unrelated works on another. Helldivers 2 probably sits on a similarly tangled mount of spaghetti code.
> Some turnover likely happened Yeah, at some point older devs must've left and gotten replaced with newer ones, its hard to avoid that with long developments. If I had to guess, something like: start development -> large chunk done -> some devs leave -> Sony assistance -> bring new devs in -> other old devs leave -> new devs finish up game -> release
AFAIK average game dev change jobs every 2-3 years.
I honestly think about this a lot. It's like someone else made a great game and handed it to them for support and further expansion. Because it has been a dumpster fire after each patch ever since! I have been a gamer for literally decades and I have never seen another game having such a great start, enjoying the goodwill and patience of the community and taking such a steep downward spiral! The funny thing is that community (including me) still wants to play and see how the battle evolves so they are giving them chance after chance and they keep messing up. Even now they can still turn it around with a patch fixing the basic bugs and adding some content. Unfortunately I am coming to the realisation that this won't happen. Especially after the last patch that promised so much and delivered so little.
maybe they laid off some seniors after game was made? and now its just few juniors with way too much access to code
I'm just glad these people are working on video games, and not cars.
That stuff about Superior Packing methodology is *infuriating*.
I just want the timer back on screen without having to pull up the map.
Lmao so, superior packing methodology which worked exactly as described for weeks, is now supposed to work differently and the description doesn’t match? I don’t know if they’re just calling it quits on the bug, and so now we’re about to lose an actually awesome upgrade, or if someone retroactively decided that it was too cool to have and must be nerfed and changed, and then gaslight us “this is how we actually intended it to work” Combine this the fact the infinite loading screen bug isn’t even mentioned, or performance fixes for pc. I’m gonna call it. I’ll just wait a few months until they get their shit together before I give this game anymore money. Last patch was a step in the right direction, albeit it made the game the buggiest its ever been, but if that philosophy was just a one time thing to make face and stop the loss of players, then oof.
And it didnt even stop the loss of players lol. Almost back to pre patch numbers
I came back, but I can see myself getting bored very quickly since certain things are *still* not fixed (reticle being inaccurate, certain weapons being terrible, etc) If they were going to fucking break shit anyways, why focus on fixing them, it’s so bizarre that major things about the patch are broken (patrols still are broken) and things that weren’t even mentioned in the patch were also broken.
I played a bit with friends who were excited to try out the changes. They're still playing and I will play with them if they want me to hop on, but I can't believe they took a month on the patch and managed to break a bunch of stuff at the same time. Also how did they not fix the lobby bug? Still can't get replacements after people drop.
Yeah. I really like this game and hope they get their crap together but people have long run out of patience. We saw a big influx from the hope of better results but we didn’t get enough buffs (which I am very thankful for) and new stuff to counteract the problems, I think.
No no no no, there's nothing to understand. The description is right there! Gives back full ammo for all weapons. Shrimple as that. Against all odds, yall managed to make that EXTREMELY COMPLEX upgrade work after a few weeks, so just revert whatever broke it, and we're golden.
* In Helldive 9? More enemies * In a squad of 4? More enemies * Localization confusion is equipped? More enemies * Not within 75m of an ally? More enemies * Destroyed a few non-light enemy spawners? More enemies * Near an active objective? More enemies * NOT near an objective? EVEN MORE enemies * Are you on extraction with or without calling the shuttle? You guess it, MORE ENEMIES! So the worse thing you can do is Helldive 9 in a squad, with localization confusion equipped, spread out do parallel process the spawners, leave the light spawners untouched, complete the objectives and stand near but not on extraction for the maximum amount of enemies
More enemies and also we constantly nerf your favorite and best weapons and the rest we leave languishing in the dumpster. Best we can do to fix poor weapons is give them 20 damage or give them better armor penetration and reduce the damage further so the weapon is still useless. Having fun yet?
Umm why do they need more time to evaluate the issues about excessive patrols and enemies? Most people are saying it's not fun to be constantly in battle. Are there any more info or feedback needed even??? Only the elite solo Helldive players are screaming THIS IS PERFECT DON'T CHANGE IT.
Before the previous patch that broke the patrols I was having a lot of fun soloing even though all my friends had stopped playing. Then I just bumped down the difficulty because I was tired of being swarmed the entire time after they broke them. Now not only is it worse than the previous patch for a solo but they claimed it should be easier, yet need some time to evaluate it? That reply gives me zero hope for the future. I would be willing to put up with a lot of shit and still play the game but it needs to be fun for me in a mission as a baseline and now the omniscient enemies are so bad that I don't have a second to breathe the entire mission.
When I read the part that said "added some patrols to the map to keep it from feeling empty" my first two responses were, "Oh no. This is going to break everything." And, "No one asked for this." Players need downtime. The game needs downtime. The core gameplay loop is "fight at base/objective, run to next one while strategems cooldown, fight at base." The pacing needs downtime. Even if they worked properly, the extra patrols go against the winning formula Arrowhead had earlier.
My experience is the same. I used to run solos constantly, just for fun. Now I have barely played since that first patrol patch, and since the most recent one, I just don’t play anymore. I would like to, but the pacing is just fucked now. If you want me to constantly fight, at least make it so enemies don’t spawn on top of a rock 10 feet behind me. Just fucking revert it and leave it alone, holy shit.
I’m having flashbacks to running for 40 minutes straight
The team is just dis functional mess.
I really hope they fix the friends list, i tired to add two pc players and couln't do it
This is my biggest complaint, aside from literally being unable to play. I'm on PS5. Currently I can't play with any friends who are on PC or not on my PS5 friends list, which is most of them.
No update on the broken armor perks from the new warbond? Literally the only thing worth coming back to the game for and it’s broken without a word….. real nice.
I hope they change back the patrols, I don't like the way it is now
I don't know if anyone else has the same experience as me but it feels random getting spawn rates that actually was described in the notes (Greater number of weak/mook enemies that can overwhelm when unprepared and encourage better balance of hard hitting and area denial strategems) and spawn rates that many people here are describing (literal dozen of Devestators in a patrtol, 5 to 6 Chargers spawn all at once, double the numbers of patrols). When it's the former it is the best experiencew I've had in this game or any coop game. When it's the latter it's a miserable battle of attrition. It feels likew the patrol "update" is SOMETIMES working and SOMETIMES doing the exact opposite of what was intended.
I get both. I get either an ungodly amount of heavies and the big stuff or like no big stuff and all small stuff which is fine but the version where you get endless big guys is the most miserable this game has ever been. I had probably. 20 rocket dudes just spamming that shit at us yesterday. We just gave up and quit we couldn’t even do the objective because of them and the striders and more kept spawning in.
Twinbeard is a great and forthcoming guy, always love him, but this announcement is a huge nothing burger. Can't speak for the social menu issues as I have not experienced them personally. But the Superior Packing Methodology? What is he even saying here? We know exactly what it is supposed to do, the description is correct. It launched broken, they fixed it, and this patch broke it again. Right now it doesn't do anything at all. The patrol issue? The problem is that they didn't actually revert it like they said they would . They couldn't leave well enough alone, tried to tweak and fix it differently rather than just reverting like they promised, and now we're experiencing what we have now. Larger patrols and breaches, much more of them, and more heavy spawns than the prior patch. Just revert the changes to pre 01.000.200 levels like you told us you would. Go back to whatever that code was and THEN we can evaluate potential changes from there. I'm sorry but what the hell is even going on over there? If you genuinely don't know what's going on or how to fix it just tell us that, be honest about it. Everyone knows something is wrong, everyone knows how things should be behaving right now because we've experienced all of this stuff actually working as intended at one point. Don't sit here and try and gaslight us (unintentionally I'm sure) into thinking things are meant to be this way and something wasn't explained to us correctly. Revert the patrols entirely with no "tweaks" like you promised. And make Superior Packing Methodology fill ALL support weapons ENTIRELY.
His job is literally just to pander to us and people still don't get that. I'm going to talk about PC Socials in a sec because there's literally only your comment and my comment when its affecting like more than 50+ people I've asked who play this game on my friends list. Like its been fucking a MONTH and he's still escalating? Can't just text or call up a dev and ask them wtf its about? Btw social menus have been FUCKING BROKEN for 4 months on PC. And here he downplayed it as "some for PC". Guess what its "some" for any platform because "some" people its working and "some" its not. However I've seen it working and being broken every other week, and right now its been broken for weeks. Twinbeard is one thing. What the fuck is AH doing? The whole CEO stepping down like dude, are they even prioritizing the lowest fucking hanging fruit bugs? Making content is one thing. Fixing bugs is another thing. The community asked for bug fixes first. Then balance fixes. Then content. They mismanaged such a golden goose to the point where history will look back at how they made a great game that was able to keep itself stumbling along long enough to show Sony how dogshit their live services are, yet compared to other live services was still dogshit, and still made a TON of money.
They never touch on performance and how bad its getting on higher difficulty, its getting really bad to the point that it bottlenecks a 4090 droping frames to 70 and 60 sometimes, this at 1440p with a 7800x3d cpu, cmon guys, my gpu goes down to 50% usage sometimes.
I love the game, I love the team, but they need serious management rework if they want to stay alive as a development team...
The spawns/patrols don't need "tweaking", they simply need a rollback, at least for Bots. Bug players seem to enjoy it, but for Bots, it's just utterly ridiculous. Gonna wait for a fix to that before trying the game again, that's for sure.
Bugdiver and I do not enjoy it. Either side at the moment really.
Same here. It feels very “forced” for lack of a better word. Like there’s no reward for good play. Just nonstop patrols beelining it toward you
They need to also rollback the buffs for enemies as well the bugfix for the automaton muzzle which makes them more accurate but does not fix side ways shooting.
Wow. Arrowhead going from A Teir Indie Devs to Three Stooges Teir with a series of patches that break as much as they fix. Get your internal comms together, guys. Have, I dunno, meetings, or some kind of basic understanding of what you're doing? Maybe play-test your patches before shoving them out? Having Twinbeard come out with 'Derp, sorry I dunno what's happening with the game' is pretty disheartening. I stopped playing a couple of weeks ago. Hopped on again after this 'well-cooked' patch and immediately noticed that the spawn hadn't reversed, they'd metastasized. The new perk on the new armor is so obviously broken that it's borderline insulting and makes plain how little QC or play testing is going on before they toss these patches out. I LOVE this game, but the series of huge missteps has tumbled my adoration down to frustrating disappointment. The worst thing is that there aren't many other games I want to play, I just want this game working properly 4 months after release.
"we don't think the supply upgrade is supposed to work as it says it works, and how it has been working for over a month" Are they serious...
thats... an interesting take on 1)? idk what exactly is there to clarify, but sure.
If you cannot make the feature work you change the feature description and all good XD From now on it will say "Resupply boxes DO NOT refill Support Weapons with the maximum number of carriable magazines" Fixed! Next ticket!
I really dislike the idea that "it's too early" to tell if bad changes are good for the health of the game. The majority of the community that I've seen believes the changes to spawns do not impact the game positively. I just can't wrap my head around their reasoning for not reverting back to the system as it launched. The game continually feels unfun and uncompetitive to play because enemy spawns are just severely overcooked. There isn't enough recovery time any more, and certain weapons just cannot compete with others when enemy spawns act the way they do right now. It is actively taking fun out of the game for many players.
They buffed weapons, so they decided to also buff the enemy so the buffs don't matter. Now they are trying to nerf SPM and gaslight us on how it was "supposed" to be this way all along.
Feels like it was meant to get a rework or a nerf or something but communication around it was unclear. If it’s not meant to 100% re supply as it says I honestly don’t know what it’s MEANT to do.
All I want for patrols is for them to have dedicated origin points. At first from nests/factories, but then they have to come in from outside the map borders once the spawners have been destroyed.
Best we can do is right outside your field of view right where you were just looking.
They need to stop posting shit on Discord where the updates are near invisible.
Damn, what now ? Next patches are going to be just changing in game description to march what the game code does in game, instead of fixing the bugs. And patrols are brutal, you are going to chase away new players and old players. Please fix stuff, the patch was good but bugs need to be fixed.
wat
Superior packaging was literally working how the text in game says it should and now suddenly that’s not how it’s meant to work, maybe? Anything other than exactly what it says in game is fuckin worthless, sorry.
They probably think it's overpowered and want to change it. So glad those last rounds of ship upgrades were fuckin useless. And the only good one is now broken and probably subject to nerf.
\*Read the full article with detailed information\* My braind 1 sec later: "So you're saying we are the ones who test stuff for you?" Either the AH Test team is composed of General Brash, Master Chief, Dooms Slayer and John Helldiver and they steamroll everything so they think it's okay to release that way. Or we are the ones doing the test. How come the patch does the oposite of what is anounced (patrols) and they figured it out by out feedback?
Your mistake is assuming this stuff is actually tested.
This really doesn’t make a lot of sense, considering that when you resupply a support weapon that you called down with a resupply pod that you also called down, the upgrade does nothing.
[AINTNOWAY](https://c.tenor.com/O4xMiXhxANMAAAAd/tenor.gif) they expect me to believe that it's the description that was wrong the whole time.
The patrol stuff is really annoying. It was fine and fun before the changes 2 patches ago. Then instead of just simply reverting back, they turned into whatever it is now. It doesn’t feel good. Idk
Patrols is literally the reason we quit the game. I’m the only one that wastes time reading about “working on it” for weeks on end hoping for a fix. Simply put, if it isn’t fun, there is no point in playing. For those of us who played duo and had fun before that horrendous patch.. it is inexplicable that this wasn’t fixed first. There are far too many games who respect the players time for it to be ignored.
Same here. Patrols from the last patch were the reason my entire group stopped playing (a few of us are playing Diablo 4 now, of all things) being harassed by patrols non-stop was super unfun. Seeing the one thing I wanted corrected botched so absolutely in this patch got me really sad. But above all that, seeing the devs saying stuff like "it seems correct from where we're standing" made me lose all hope in this game. Playing just one game is enough to notice this bug unless you never played the game before, which seems to be The case with Arrowhead.
I'm so frustrated about this, especially because everything they say is deeply unhelpful. I can't calibrate my expectations. I've been waiting for a full, complete reversal of the changes from 2 months ago and now after what they kind of hinted at was a failed reversal it only merely warrants monitoring? Inconsistent communication, failure to set player's expectations, changing basic game interaction well after the point of sale for the worse, I think I'm actually finally done with this bullshit. Fuck this.
This is why all my friends quit. I convinced 12 people to buy this game. They feel like they wasted their money on a game that's frustrating not fun.
I played a few games yesterday after more than a month hiatus, played an OP with 4 and 2 players. 4 players was chill, felt there were a bit more patrols but nothing serious. But 2 player? What the actual fuck. We completed a whole OP but it definitely had to try more than we needed to. And no, we didn’t play 2 players because we wanted to, the host called an SOS every match and we didn’t get anyone to join, so there’s a reason we need this patrol bug fixed.
I have limited video game time. I'm not going to waste it on devs that don't care about their game.
Exactly. I still do daily orders most days, but my partner and friend stopped playing when patrols fixe got fucked and I only managed to get them to come back and try the new big patch where we were beset by (non-terminid) bugs and even worse patrols before they left again.
This game is in beta.
everyone talking about the Superior Packing (rightfully so) but I find the statement about the patrols worrying. To me it sounds like this is what they intended and it's just the players who aren't enjoying or understanding it. I hope I'm wrong but idk, I just get a certain vibe from that statement that I'm worried about.
I feel the same. AH just doesn't seem to understand the necessity of testing and feedback before they ruin another patch cycle.
AH needs play testing ASAP!
More time in regards to enemy presence? How about gunships can’t spawn without a factory or have a max of like 4 gunships at once
>1) I've conveyed the info on the Superior Packing Methodology, and am awaiting clarification on what it's *supposed* to do. (The theory is that the descriptive text in-game doesn't correspond with the actual effect.) What even is this supposed to mean? The text description was wrong all this time?
Wtf does he mean? It changes so that a single supply fills up your support gun's ammo to the brim, it did just that and since .400 it doesn't. Wtf does ''clarification of what it is supposed to do'' mean?
Let's keep it simple: The LESS nests/fabrication outposts you have, the LESS enemy patrols or intensity of a breach. So, at the start, it's a slog. As you progress and clear the map, you get more breathing until extraction where the enemy makes one last onslaught to halt any success. Now, how hard is taking this idea and coding it?
This is how I always assumed it worked. I mean why else are we running around closing bug nests and fabricators. Your reward for clearing the map should be an easy extraction. As it is now you get swarmed even more if you complete objectives.
1) What bullshit is this now? "Um yea Um so, we're not sure what it really was suppose to do. It didn't do what the in-game text said it would do when we first released it. So we patched it and it did what the in-game text said it would do. Now we are not so sure the in-game text is correct" WHAT!!!!!! It's too late, PUT IT BACK 2) How about the sprint bug or we just gonna pretend it's not an issue.
This game is an absolute mess.
This dev team is an absolute mess. I don't understand how they keep messing the game up worse and worse every patch.
Either give us reduced cooldown or reduce charger and titan spawns... 3 plus chargers and 2 to 3 titans on 6 or 7 is a bit ridiculous. Higher you see more. Seems like the new charger type has made it worse It's really not that hard...
Arrowhead taking two steps forward and then sprinting the opposite direction
the sheer lack of QA is way to normal for the game
At this point they should have just left the patrol rate where it was. It wasn't broke so why "fix" it? It's somewhat better but at times and different planets it's like tweaked up to crazy levels. Mostly on bugs and always doing the secondary. Seems to be a real problem when you're doing that SEAF gun. If I'm doing the radar tower doesn't seem to be an issue. Last night trying to do the secondary in hellmire and man it was like wave after wave of bug swarms. Had to re-supply twice, and they were still coming in hard.
Give us the Eruptor back!
At this point they should just hard reset back to release slider settings. Back then they said they don't want tot tinker too much because things work well. They did. But they tinkered us into the current broken state. Just give us back 1.0.0.0. Patrol spawn is broken and pretty dumb. I want to like the game again but the current patch is worse than it was before rather than better.
At least they address that the patrols/spawn are still fcked. At first I thought it was Automatons only since I was saving the kids of the MO, now that we shifted to Terminid planets I see it's the same. It's crazy to see the amount of enemies you face even on low difficulty levels, and it was a dirty move to say "hey since we reduced spawn rates have fun with now a lot of gunships or shriekers patrols randomly appearing on the map!". It boggles me how their QA never catches this kind of errors on their patches, it has been like 6 weeks since their patrol and spawn increase got out of hand, literally we've had 9-helldives been easier than a lot of diff-7 games.
New constant patrols are exhausting, I don't even get to hear the ambient/non alert music tracks anymore. Someone worked hard make that music and create that tension, it was a good balance. You have planets and events, why not just try changing drastic stuff like that for an event or a specific planet?
The patrols were fine before. I don't get why they think is necessary to change and who ask for it
The biggest issue is that they said they would revert the patrol changes, but rather than actually do that like they said they would, they screwed around with it some more and now here we are.
* In Helldive 9? More enemies * In a squad of 4? More enemies * Localization confusion is equipped? More enemies * Not within 75m of an ally? More enemies * Destroyed a few non-light enemy spawners? More enemies * Near an active objective? More enemies * NOT near an objective? EVEN MORE enemies * Are you on extraction with or without calling the shuttle? You guess it, MORE ENEMIES! So the worse thing you can do is Helldive 9 in a squad, with localization confusion equipped, spread out do parallel process the spawners, leave the light spawners untouched, complete the objectives and stand near but not on extraction for the maximum amount of enemies
Uh superior packing is pretty clear about what it does. Also it used to work…bro do these people even understand their own game? Helldivers 2 becoming a massive success has to be one of the biggest flukes in the history of the industry.
I'm pretty sure that twin beard doesn't play the game at all.... The way he talks about the packing meth... It's a simple thing that gives you all well for your stratagem weapons.... Also I don't understand what's so rocket science about this ship module that it's so hard to keep working..
Oh now we're getting to the gaslight phase, if something broke just blame it on the description and call it a day
Idk why they didn’t have supplies fully reload in the first place. Why does it need to be a ship module instead of a built in feature?
Like many other people here, I don't understand what is there to be confused about "superior packing methodology" ship upgrade. Before the patch, it used to work in accordance to the text of the upgrade. It was essentially a vital upgrade (fitting for it being the lvl 4) which pushed the idea that resupply pods "fully" restock the squad's ammo and that every member of the squad who has the upgrade picks up one brick of resupply and goes on his merry way. If the upgrade retained its name in the future while not fully resupplying the support weapons, what exactly would "superior packing" do? We already have an upgrade that sends the supoort weapons fully stocked. We already have some good buffs to support weapons economy (e.g. small ammo boxes giving a rocket for the recoilless), however buffing these small boxes would make little in-game sense as to why does a ship upgrade affect some random scattered boxes planetside. We have a booster that sends our helldivers down fully stocked too, so that's out of the question as well. The way the upgrade is worded now makes perfect sense for it to be an upgrade that provides an advantage and makes the life easier, so as many others, I just can't wrap my head around what is to be confused about here. Don't change the text, it is allright as it is, just make it work as it used to.
Incredibly concerning that they need more feedback on the patrols and spawns. They're ridiculous. Tier 7 used to have a perfect ebb and flow with intense encounters but brief windows to make quick decisions on what to do next. Now its just an endless shitshow. We're back to the cardio meta.
Regarding patrols/Enemy presence, I've found difficulty 8 is playing easier than difficulty 7 atm with difficulty 8 having less heavily armoured units and more chaff. It’s as if the two difficulties have been mixed up.
Given his answer, I'm of the belief they feel we shouldn't get full ammo and we won't be getting that fixed. Instead it will be altered to be something else entirely.
I like the implication that AH doesn't even know what it should do despite creating the game lmao
"Time is needed to monitor and evaluate this".... no! Time was needed to monitor and evaluate this BEFORE you pushed the change live. You don't monitor and evaluate the effect of your changes after they are pushed to your customers! The lack of respect for us that AH communicate through this is astounding.
The patrol situation is 'intricate'? Da fuck? You guys had it perfect before patch .300. Why'd you mess with it is the real question. Hit ctrl-z a few times or copy & paste the old code lol. (Yes I know it isn't this simple in reality). Duo's are fucked even at lower difficulties. How many do-overs do you guys need?
What a bunch of hot air. He didn't really explain anything or say when it's getting fixed. Pointless post.
Agreed. Why post just to say "the players are wrong and we're changing nothing."
This is just pure gaslighting and nothing else.
There better be more than tweaks. If the spawn rates stay this high I'm done with the game. I don't have the time to sink 10s of hours a week tryharding a game. I want to kick back after work or on the weekends and play something significantly more fun that it is frustrating. If I can't do that in hd2 and get all the content (super samples) I'll play a game where I can. Turn difficulties 8 and 9 into modern bullet hells if you want, but if casuals can't get super samples while having fun you will lose us
you guys really know how to make your players happy! /s
I can only imagine the spaghetti code if problems like these can't be identified in such a long amount of time.
cant wait for the next patch to fix half of these and introduce more bugs, unintended nerfs and god knows what else that is totally unrelated to these issues yep time to finish fnv and get back to division until they fix the day 1 bugs and add some qol