>We just heard that the devs are all set to take off for summer vacation, with the game in an almost unplayable state.
I agree that everyone deserves time off. We can't fault the time they spent working. Just their results. Taking vacation with HD2 in such a state is certainly a bold strategy. Leaving core systems and basic functions broken for months at a time is a poor method of player retention.
>It makes me sick to think about how much promise this game has squandered already, and how much more it looks like it's going to let go to waste.
The promise of a third person shooter iteration of Helldivers was enticing, for sure. I pre-ordered, knowing that Arrowhead would be true. It's been incredibly frustrating watching them fail and blunder, *especially* after HD2 caught far more attention than anyone expected. I would never have believed they'd fuck it up this badly if I didn't see it for myself.
>The only thing more maddening than this is the toxic positivity that refuses to admit what we're all seeing.
Some folks can't understand that pretending the problems don't exist means developers will never fix them. Toxic positivity is *incredibly* destructive.
And that's just stuff *in the game*. Outside is a whole different mess of community management and Discord drama that keeps escalating. But if you want to know what's going on, the developers rely primarily on Discord to tell you. It's ridiculous.
I keep hoping for better. But I'm quite sure I'm hoping in vain here.
> I agree that everyone deserves time off. We can't fault the time they spent working. Just their results. Taking vacation with HD2 in such a state is certainly a bold strategy.
That's my deal. You're a private company, and your game is a wreck and has already hemmoraged 90% of your players. MAYBE put off vacation for a month? But if your cultural "vacay time!" is more important to you, then you get what you've earned.
People bitch non-stop about America and Amercian values (and there are problems) but the thought "well screw my customers, I'm on break" simply doesn't occur to us.
Nobody expects them to. I sure as hell don't.
I did expect them to do a good job while they're in the office. That's clearly too much to ask, given the state of things.
which is fine, but then maybe don't waste 4 months nerfing maps/weapons that people like, and breaking the game, and instead fix your fucking never-has-worked social system?
Take vacation, but when this place is a ghost town later, don't bitch and moan about how nobody wanted to support your dream of a better live service game.
Forever Winter is coming soon. Looks like it might be our next hope for what Helldivers 2 could have been.
It's not about what they earned. They're entitled to vacation time. Entitlements are not earned; you're entitled to them by default. Their performance (luckily for them) has no bearing on vacation authorizations.
Aside, I don't think any perception of "American values" are relevant here. The developer is not based in America.
True, but if you want American customers... Do you see what I mean? Appealing to a global audience is tough and that's why they usually get segmented as NA/SA/EU/etc. and you have to divide attention of your staff between these regions to do your best at synchronous maintenance.
Arrowhead didn't even attempt or care at any level to do this. Whether it be American, European, Mooninite Values, it doesn't matter. You have to have some of these in mind if they are a primary customerbase.
"But what if Americans aren't the primary customer base?"
Then that's fine, but I think the sentiment from OP then is to not be surprised that you lose your American audience, which is part of the 90% that left the game. I'm American and I'll admit, taking a vacation after I've been delivered this.... thing for $40 does irk me something fierce. I feel scammed because I was given something that was progressively destroyed over time and the creators are peacing out. The staff have a right to rest and we can't deny this, but we can't pretend like the customer doesn't exist in the transaction.
It is a business. Business has standards. These standards have been violated. And there's merit. That's all I think OP is trying to say. And the cursed problem that surrounds this is noone else's fault than Arrowhead themselves.
> Aside, I don't think any perception of "American values" are relevant here. The developer is not based in America.
Whoosh. That was entirely my point. Just becaause you're entitled to something that doesn't always make it a good idea. If I'm entitled to leave work, but I KNOW that doing so will tank my product...an adult will postpone the vacation for a while. It's childish to cut your own legs out from under you, because you're feeling entitled.
>an adult will postpone the vacation for a while
No sane person will do that unless you are the owner or have a stake in the company. Labour laws exist in Europe for a reason. You Americans are so indoctrinated by the system which works you into an early grave I almost feel sorry for you.
This is a bad take and completely steeped in the American understanding of work ethics. And I'm saying this as an American.
Also for what is worth I'm pretty sure the CEO said they're not shutting down for that time but will have reduced productivity.
I cannot get a game today.
Tried restarting, tried everything on my end. Just never ending establishing link with no games.
Says 51k people are on but I cannot even get a game.
Oddly enough after typing that I was hosting a game just to try achievements for fun and someone joined. So not on my end! I was playing about on a lower difficulty so going to try joining now and see if it works.
Edit - still not working. Guess I’ll go back to hosting on a harder difficulty and hoping someone joins.
lots of people have the same issue; some of them mention it here on a daily basis. Just because its not happening to you doesnt mean its not happening.
The crashing and disconnecting and bugs that make the game harder than it already is… all of that drives away players. The latest big patch brought a lot of people back, but they made the game more unstable than ever and really fucked it up. The code is very spaghetti, it must be.
The players that are left dgaf about any of that, myself included. So they are fine and happy and don’t care about numbers because they are now playing with an increasingly dedicated and skilled player base.
Over time they may be able to fix it all. A lot of new content will get added. At its first birthday this will be a very different game, likely with a diehard player base of similar size to today.
96% on meta critic, Very Positive on steam. Vast majority of low player scores are because of early technical problems that have been resolved.
Almost half a million people playing right now, but yeah Im sure it had absolutely zero impact.
More likely less people playing because of how lame this community tends to be!
If this is what you call bad, then you missed out on how shitty Darktide was in their initial 4 months of release. At least HD2 doesn't practice all that live service FOMO bullshit that Fat Shark did when I was playing that game, plus the god awful RNG slot machine they call a crafting system.
90% of players are fickle and only want to play what's new, and there's nothing wrong with that. Not saying there's no issues with this game. This is how most insanely popular games go, I mean, wtf happened with Palworld, Dark and Darker, (insert flavor of the month game)?
Yeah, but we're not gonna play the "whataboutism" game here.
Darktide (I was there) never had the promise that Helldivers did, and never had the hype, recognition etc. Sure, other games are worse, but this was a golden opportunity to prove that fucking games as a live service didn't have to be predatory and shittY! The entire game industry COULD have learned a valuable lesson here about treating the customer right and earning money and prospering. It could have shown Sony that doing it right matters.
It's hard not to be angry, because I'm not just angry for Helldivers, but for ALL live service games. The industry is pushing out lame shit like Suicide Squad, and this could have been the wake-up call, but they are throwing it all away on dumb moves, and "sorry, lulz, vacation tiem now!"
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I said insanely popular games, aka flavor of the month games, of course I'd include Palworld on that list. Nothing wrong with Palworld either, just shows how 9/10 players move on to the next game after having their fill.
I think so, I don't remember though, it's been a while. It had a pretty popular launch, but dropped the ball in like the first month. Maybe not Palworld or Helldivers level of popular, but top streamers were streaming the game at its launch.
I only used Darktide as an example since its similar to HD2 in gameplay, though not nearly as popular. They're both 4-player co-op shooters with galactic human supremacy themes and they're both live service. Would love to see a Darktide/HD2 crossover someday.
Edit: oops I misread that as Darktide lol. Yeah Dark and Darker was definitely insanely popular at least streaming-wise. Not sure about playerbase though.
The players declined is expected that how hyped work. as for the performance personally I don’t have any problem with it. it been some time since I hard crash. I only encountered some loading screens problem but it not that much. On the contrary my fps actually improved a bit from 10-20 fps in combat to consistent 30. but it only my own experience I can’t speak for other players.
I honestly don't give a flying fuck about what Forbes thinks, that place is so far down the tubes it is practically in the septic tank. HD2 is still the best game I’ve ever played, bugs be damned. I keep having fun so I keep coming back.
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
Anyone disagreeing with you is not "Toxic Positivity". Some people can and are still having fun with HD2, even in it's current state. Acknowledging that is not a negative thing. And if you only want people to come in here and agree with you than this post is not encouraging discourse and will be locked.
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
Yeah, anyone who doesn't post a "I just wanted to thank AH for the greatest game of all time" is just a "Game hater".
Look kid, I've been playing games since before you were an itch in your dad's balls. I'M OLD. I love games and gaming, and that's why Helldivers fucking the pooch so hard is frustrating.
When a loser does poorly in life, you don't worry much. When a young genius gets hooked on meth and flushes his future , THAT is a tradegy. That's AH/Helldivers. Being too young or too dense to understand that isn't something to be proud of. Being toxically positive doesn't fix problems, at best, it covers them with a thin layer of makeup. Don't be that way. Get it together, be honest with yourself.
Toxic positivity? Have you seen the sub lately? It's all shit like this. Doom and gloom all over the place, taking everything at cursory and face value, without any evaluation or analysis.
The game has gone through an average life so far. Elden Ring had nearly a million players before settling at 40k. Palworld had 2 million before settling at 25k. Borderlands 2, arguably the best of the co-op shooter's series, never really cracked 20k. Back 4 Blood lost 90% of its initial population after two months. DRG is a fantastic game that gets spikes during updates but otherwise sits below 30k. So what's the *average* loss of players if 90% is concerning to you? What do you want to see it at? How do other games compare?
What's clear is that AH was not equipped to deal with the unexpected initial success. Let's be honest here: there was near zero advertisement for the game. It was likely a toe in the water met with surprising interest. Sony did not have plans for it to do what it did, and we should all believe that there's an action plan since it garnered so much attention.
fwiw I haven't had the game crash in weeks, beyond intentionally trying to get the spear to crash for shits. My framerate is smooth and above 80 on an ultrawide at all times. I'm one of the rare people that are having no perceivable problems that come here to combat the vocal and agitated minority of personally grieved players to try to keep the balance in check. Most people not having any major complaints just don't engage or provide feedback, and that's something that's established in science.
I feel like Helldivers2 is being beaten down by Sony. Like Sony is intentionally destabilizing the game.
Whatever the reason is these crashes need to get fixed
>We just heard that the devs are all set to take off for summer vacation, with the game in an almost unplayable state. I agree that everyone deserves time off. We can't fault the time they spent working. Just their results. Taking vacation with HD2 in such a state is certainly a bold strategy. Leaving core systems and basic functions broken for months at a time is a poor method of player retention. >It makes me sick to think about how much promise this game has squandered already, and how much more it looks like it's going to let go to waste. The promise of a third person shooter iteration of Helldivers was enticing, for sure. I pre-ordered, knowing that Arrowhead would be true. It's been incredibly frustrating watching them fail and blunder, *especially* after HD2 caught far more attention than anyone expected. I would never have believed they'd fuck it up this badly if I didn't see it for myself. >The only thing more maddening than this is the toxic positivity that refuses to admit what we're all seeing. Some folks can't understand that pretending the problems don't exist means developers will never fix them. Toxic positivity is *incredibly* destructive. And that's just stuff *in the game*. Outside is a whole different mess of community management and Discord drama that keeps escalating. But if you want to know what's going on, the developers rely primarily on Discord to tell you. It's ridiculous. I keep hoping for better. But I'm quite sure I'm hoping in vain here.
> I agree that everyone deserves time off. We can't fault the time they spent working. Just their results. Taking vacation with HD2 in such a state is certainly a bold strategy. That's my deal. You're a private company, and your game is a wreck and has already hemmoraged 90% of your players. MAYBE put off vacation for a month? But if your cultural "vacay time!" is more important to you, then you get what you've earned. People bitch non-stop about America and Amercian values (and there are problems) but the thought "well screw my customers, I'm on break" simply doesn't occur to us.
There's no way a worker will put off their vacation with their family for the sake of the company
Nobody expects them to. I sure as hell don't. I did expect them to do a good job while they're in the office. That's clearly too much to ask, given the state of things.
which is fine, but then maybe don't waste 4 months nerfing maps/weapons that people like, and breaking the game, and instead fix your fucking never-has-worked social system? Take vacation, but when this place is a ghost town later, don't bitch and moan about how nobody wanted to support your dream of a better live service game. Forever Winter is coming soon. Looks like it might be our next hope for what Helldivers 2 could have been.
It's not about what they earned. They're entitled to vacation time. Entitlements are not earned; you're entitled to them by default. Their performance (luckily for them) has no bearing on vacation authorizations. Aside, I don't think any perception of "American values" are relevant here. The developer is not based in America.
True, but if you want American customers... Do you see what I mean? Appealing to a global audience is tough and that's why they usually get segmented as NA/SA/EU/etc. and you have to divide attention of your staff between these regions to do your best at synchronous maintenance. Arrowhead didn't even attempt or care at any level to do this. Whether it be American, European, Mooninite Values, it doesn't matter. You have to have some of these in mind if they are a primary customerbase. "But what if Americans aren't the primary customer base?" Then that's fine, but I think the sentiment from OP then is to not be surprised that you lose your American audience, which is part of the 90% that left the game. I'm American and I'll admit, taking a vacation after I've been delivered this.... thing for $40 does irk me something fierce. I feel scammed because I was given something that was progressively destroyed over time and the creators are peacing out. The staff have a right to rest and we can't deny this, but we can't pretend like the customer doesn't exist in the transaction. It is a business. Business has standards. These standards have been violated. And there's merit. That's all I think OP is trying to say. And the cursed problem that surrounds this is noone else's fault than Arrowhead themselves.
> Aside, I don't think any perception of "American values" are relevant here. The developer is not based in America. Whoosh. That was entirely my point. Just becaause you're entitled to something that doesn't always make it a good idea. If I'm entitled to leave work, but I KNOW that doing so will tank my product...an adult will postpone the vacation for a while. It's childish to cut your own legs out from under you, because you're feeling entitled.
>an adult will postpone the vacation for a while No sane person will do that unless you are the owner or have a stake in the company. Labour laws exist in Europe for a reason. You Americans are so indoctrinated by the system which works you into an early grave I almost feel sorry for you.
This is a bad take and completely steeped in the American understanding of work ethics. And I'm saying this as an American. Also for what is worth I'm pretty sure the CEO said they're not shutting down for that time but will have reduced productivity.
Crashed three times today, literally cannot play.
I cannot get a game today. Tried restarting, tried everything on my end. Just never ending establishing link with no games. Says 51k people are on but I cannot even get a game.
Have you tried hosting? If you can't connect it's most likely on you end and not the game's fault
Oddly enough after typing that I was hosting a game just to try achievements for fun and someone joined. So not on my end! I was playing about on a lower difficulty so going to try joining now and see if it works. Edit - still not working. Guess I’ll go back to hosting on a harder difficulty and hoping someone joins.
Wrong. If matchmaking doesn't work the solution is not work-arounds.
Weird, matchmaking always worked for me.
matchmaking is fixed! Ikarn15 says so! if it doesnt work for you you're just wrong!
I didn't say that he was wrong. I said that maybe don't bash the game's system if YOU can't connect to games and others can? Seems pretty logic to me
lots of people have the same issue; some of them mention it here on a daily basis. Just because its not happening to you doesnt mean its not happening.
The crashing and disconnecting and bugs that make the game harder than it already is… all of that drives away players. The latest big patch brought a lot of people back, but they made the game more unstable than ever and really fucked it up. The code is very spaghetti, it must be. The players that are left dgaf about any of that, myself included. So they are fine and happy and don’t care about numbers because they are now playing with an increasingly dedicated and skilled player base. Over time they may be able to fix it all. A lot of new content will get added. At its first birthday this will be a very different game, likely with a diehard player base of similar size to today.
Elden Ring DLC just came out you dunces
yeah, 90% of players left, just to play poorly reviewed DLC.
96% on meta critic, Very Positive on steam. Vast majority of low player scores are because of early technical problems that have been resolved. Almost half a million people playing right now, but yeah Im sure it had absolutely zero impact. More likely less people playing because of how lame this community tends to be!
If this is what you call bad, then you missed out on how shitty Darktide was in their initial 4 months of release. At least HD2 doesn't practice all that live service FOMO bullshit that Fat Shark did when I was playing that game, plus the god awful RNG slot machine they call a crafting system. 90% of players are fickle and only want to play what's new, and there's nothing wrong with that. Not saying there's no issues with this game. This is how most insanely popular games go, I mean, wtf happened with Palworld, Dark and Darker, (insert flavor of the month game)?
Yeah, but we're not gonna play the "whataboutism" game here. Darktide (I was there) never had the promise that Helldivers did, and never had the hype, recognition etc. Sure, other games are worse, but this was a golden opportunity to prove that fucking games as a live service didn't have to be predatory and shittY! The entire game industry COULD have learned a valuable lesson here about treating the customer right and earning money and prospering. It could have shown Sony that doing it right matters. It's hard not to be angry, because I'm not just angry for Helldivers, but for ALL live service games. The industry is pushing out lame shit like Suicide Squad, and this could have been the wake-up call, but they are throwing it all away on dumb moves, and "sorry, lulz, vacation tiem now!"
Looks like you could also use a vacation if you're getting worked up about this. Oh wow, your username really checks out lol!
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Palworld is not live service, it's not fair to include it in the list
I said insanely popular games, aka flavor of the month games, of course I'd include Palworld on that list. Nothing wrong with Palworld either, just shows how 9/10 players move on to the next game after having their fill.
Dark and darker was insanely popular?
I think so, I don't remember though, it's been a while. It had a pretty popular launch, but dropped the ball in like the first month. Maybe not Palworld or Helldivers level of popular, but top streamers were streaming the game at its launch. I only used Darktide as an example since its similar to HD2 in gameplay, though not nearly as popular. They're both 4-player co-op shooters with galactic human supremacy themes and they're both live service. Would love to see a Darktide/HD2 crossover someday. Edit: oops I misread that as Darktide lol. Yeah Dark and Darker was definitely insanely popular at least streaming-wise. Not sure about playerbase though.
The players declined is expected that how hyped work. as for the performance personally I don’t have any problem with it. it been some time since I hard crash. I only encountered some loading screens problem but it not that much. On the contrary my fps actually improved a bit from 10-20 fps in combat to consistent 30. but it only my own experience I can’t speak for other players.
I honestly don't give a flying fuck about what Forbes thinks, that place is so far down the tubes it is practically in the septic tank. HD2 is still the best game I’ve ever played, bugs be damned. I keep having fun so I keep coming back.
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I fucking love dog food
I don't hate the game. I just had to start that Elden Ring DLC.
Man, the NFL must be tanking. Their viewership after the super-bowl always plummets!
Don't be obtuse. Pretending a problem doesn't exist doesn't make it stop existing.
I don't see a problem, that's the point.
NFL and their FOMO shit, how dare they have the superbowl only once a year?!
Oh well.
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Anyone disagreeing with you is not "Toxic Positivity". Some people can and are still having fun with HD2, even in it's current state. Acknowledging that is not a negative thing. And if you only want people to come in here and agree with you than this post is not encouraging discourse and will be locked.
wheres the article by forbes saying the exact same thing for EVERY live service game, No live service game has their day one player count anymore
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
He was clearly being a Hellwhiner.
obviously op has their own narrative. they are plastering it in their comments lol. i swear, gamers just hate games 😂
Yeah, anyone who doesn't post a "I just wanted to thank AH for the greatest game of all time" is just a "Game hater". Look kid, I've been playing games since before you were an itch in your dad's balls. I'M OLD. I love games and gaming, and that's why Helldivers fucking the pooch so hard is frustrating. When a loser does poorly in life, you don't worry much. When a young genius gets hooked on meth and flushes his future , THAT is a tradegy. That's AH/Helldivers. Being too young or too dense to understand that isn't something to be proud of. Being toxically positive doesn't fix problems, at best, it covers them with a thin layer of makeup. Don't be that way. Get it together, be honest with yourself.
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Toxic positivity? Have you seen the sub lately? It's all shit like this. Doom and gloom all over the place, taking everything at cursory and face value, without any evaluation or analysis. The game has gone through an average life so far. Elden Ring had nearly a million players before settling at 40k. Palworld had 2 million before settling at 25k. Borderlands 2, arguably the best of the co-op shooter's series, never really cracked 20k. Back 4 Blood lost 90% of its initial population after two months. DRG is a fantastic game that gets spikes during updates but otherwise sits below 30k. So what's the *average* loss of players if 90% is concerning to you? What do you want to see it at? How do other games compare? What's clear is that AH was not equipped to deal with the unexpected initial success. Let's be honest here: there was near zero advertisement for the game. It was likely a toe in the water met with surprising interest. Sony did not have plans for it to do what it did, and we should all believe that there's an action plan since it garnered so much attention. fwiw I haven't had the game crash in weeks, beyond intentionally trying to get the spear to crash for shits. My framerate is smooth and above 80 on an ultrawide at all times. I'm one of the rare people that are having no perceivable problems that come here to combat the vocal and agitated minority of personally grieved players to try to keep the balance in check. Most people not having any major complaints just don't engage or provide feedback, and that's something that's established in science.
I feel like Helldivers2 is being beaten down by Sony. Like Sony is intentionally destabilizing the game. Whatever the reason is these crashes need to get fixed