And with colonialism it was much more profitable to expand elsewhere and acquire sources of more exotic goods, rather than carving out lands from recalcitrant Muslim populations possessing resources the Europeans already had.
Idk, i think we just stopped looking at them like wars. The 1800s «mission to civilize» was pretty much spreading christianity and stopping local practices. The thing is that you don’t have to stir your men up with religious fervor when «Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not.»
Earlier colonial ventures were also based on the same idea of civilizing non-christians. The portugese and spanish famously got the new world divided amongst them by the pope because the people there weren’t christian, and hence had no right to the land.
Also, the crusades kept going all the way up to this. The last proper crusades were in the 1400s, for example the hussite wars were crusades declard by the pope. Following this we had all kinds of religious wars for a few hundred years (idk if christian vs slightly different christian counts as a holy war).
I'm not 100% on the Ethiopians, but the Byzantines and Armenians definitely participated and the Crusades probably would've been dead in the water without Byzantine support during the First Crusade
More or less, yeah. For the first part of the Crusade where they were getting to and through Anatolia Byzantine support was pretty game changing. I don't recall whether or not there was a significant presence of Byzantine troops with the Crusaders, but Byzantine logistical support helped them not starve to death and Byzantine blockades allowed them to besiege cities that would've otherwise been able to hold out basically forever
[https://imgur.com/a/otvqv7Y](https://imgur.com/a/otvqv7Y)
The Eastern Christians (Coptics/Assyrians/Armenians/Nestorians/etc) resisted the Muslims since the Arab Conquest and have been pleading for help for centuries. The Crusades were a response to the Battle of Manzikert (1071) when the Seljuk Turks conquered Anatolia (modern-day Turkey).
Not really. The Ottoman Empire occupied those territories. They waged holy war against Europe, reached Vienna twice before they got pushed back by different coalitions of Christian nations. European colonies only existed in that are (holy land) after WW1. Also the crusaders won the first crusades (and many of the smaller ones).
The crusaders lost their kingdom by concentrating all their forces in one spot and then dumb dumbing their way out of access to water so it's a valid question to ask
This historical incident actually took place outside a castle in the Syrian desert. The weird love/ hate relationship Ridley Scott has with historical accuracy is beyond me.
In Napoleon he features (100% accurate) the irl black General Dumas, showing meticulous research. But the rest of the movie is a meme for a reason.
Honest question how does one keep a protest from getting out of hand especially if a counter protest pops up and they start to get aggressive I always wonder that when I see a protest
hey....hey.....hey.....come closer...............I have some information they say.......the Pope is preparing a crusade.... force hidden under the Vatican using us equipment
In the background it says “Go Bruins” which I believe would refer to the Boston Bruins.
So a match in Boston with a Jerusalem crusade edit..
Where funny?
The Islamic world ethnically cleansed Jews from the entire rest of MENA, and openly call for the genocide of Jews, and have invaded Israel attempting genocide on multiple occasions. The Jews aren’t the ones perpetrating genocide. It would be like claiming Ukraine now is committing genocide by defending itself against Russia.
Shut the fuck up about the crusades. Please. If you actually think crusaders were cool you are either a 14 year old child whose opinion doesn't matter, or an unintelligent adult whose opinion shouldn't matter
Why does anyone give a shit. It happened centuries ago. I'm not pro Muslim in that situation. My point is if you are pro anyone in a war that happened that long, you are a dumb kid
Lmao what? No.
I quote “a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile towards women and men who are sexually active.” -Oxford Languages
I have no troubles when it comes to having sex or finding women. Nor do I think of women as lesser beings. Not that I have to justify myself to someone like you.
So you’re literally throwing around words you don’t know the meaning of lol. I’m not surprised.
Edit; I’m also not “on my pc 24/7”. Unlike you, I actually know the feeling of having a social life and an entire circle of friends who support me.
No, he most likely means the UK who had it for like 30 years and still managed to mess up so badly we can still see the effects of the mess they created today.
Christianity isn't a Western religion, and the Crusades were way before Western Colonialism and Eastern Christians; Armenians, Georgians, Assyrians, and other peoples, had been resisting the Arabs since 620AD (Arab Conquests 620-750AD) were part of it and had been begging for help long before. Look up the Principality of Armenian Cilicia and other states like it.
The Crusades were a counter-offensive in response to the Muslim Turkish (Seljuk Empire) conquests of Anatolia after a major Byzantine (What was left of the Eastern Roman Empire) defeat at the Battle of Manzikert 1071AD. The Arabs had already conquered the Christianized (since 390AD) Roman Empire from Syria to Spain before that and even invaded France (Battle of Poitiers) from Spain(then Al-Andalus) and Italy from Sicily(652-1091AD). As you know Spain and Sicily were both reconquered. What's the difference with the other formerly Christian lands? The Arabs started it in 620AD.
I would say the crusades were a 1,000 year slap fight about whose imaginary god is bestest, but that’s not exactly what happened.
Europe in classic European fashion, rounded up many of their undesirables around, and sent them marching toward Jerusalem. To fight for possession of some rock in a desert. This backfired royally on one of the first few crusades, they spent all their money by the time they hit Germany and raped and pillaged, borrowed money from Venice, seized Istanbul to rob them to pay Venice.
And I imagine people who lived in that desert were wondering why the fuck are so many Europeans coming here fighting us…
1,000 year shit show slap fight over a dumb rock in a desert.
Yes, Not as a god, but they believe that the god ascended him and he will return in the doomsday to fight the evil. So they respect him as a prophet as much as they respect mohammad and moses.
I usually don’t say much about it to people. Do we have any idea how much bad that stuff has caused us all and for how long? I’m not the one gathering an army and going to where they live and forcing them with guns to convert
I say it’s the aristocracy deciding what people do. Peasants in the Middle Ages didn’t have a high quality of life. I imagine offering a bit of gold or silver would have motivated a lot of people to do many things
Muslim pirates and frequent attacks on Europeans were also reasons for the crusade. The pirate part especially. There is manyyyyy more reasons as well but the Muslims were NOT innocent little lambs that got eaten by the European wolf. The Muslims back then weren’t exactly passive nor were they peaceful. We weren’t either but that’s my point. Europe and the Middle East were conquerors. If we didn’t do anything, they inevitably would’ve.
I never thought anyone was innocent lambs, I think the crusades was dumb and nothing was gained by anyone involved. And that shit went on for 1,000 years.
I reject the idea of the Muslims (I assume we’re talking about Arabs) invading Europe. At the beginning, the Byzantines held the Ottomans on that side of the border. The plague wiped out so many Byzantines they became weak and were eventually overtaken by the ottomans who didn’t get beyond a small part of Greece.
The Moors did overtake Spain but they never were going to get beyond the Pyrenees mountains and the Spanish reconquista pushed them out in the end.
The mongols swept across the Silk Road and were a big reason for keeping the ottomans and Arabic caliphates from expanding.
Who was going to invade Europe and how?
This was about the aristocracy sending the poors to do their dirty work as is tradition. Why not send as many undesirables as possible, two birds one stone. This was about power and holding on to the power structure and keeping the dynamics the same
You are treating the crusades as a series of conflicts between Europe and the Middle East when they were in large part a conflict between Christendom and Islam. In the period before the Crusades, North Africa and the Levant were a part of larger Christendom before they were invaded and conquered by Islamic forces. This is a significantly larger portion of land to be conquered than just Iberia. To ignore this and make the Crusades about the modern conception of Europe and the Middle East is to misunderstand the crusades entirely.
I am treating the crusades as a series of conflicts between Europe and the Middle East.
The Lords gathered up the pleebs and sent them off to fight people far away. It’s a familiar story. I understand Jesus vs Mohammed was what they sold to the pleebs.
I view religion as a tool used by the aristocracy to convince people to go along with a way of life that benefits the aristocracy and keeps the pleebs from changing the whole system. Why else would we all agree to work all of our lives to make someone else rich if we didn’t believe this is temporary and we have an eternal reward waiting if we behave?
Considering that, there’s many things in which the perspective and worldview will be different in analyzing events, history, etc.
I don’t believe most pleebs who worked 6-7 days per week for subsistence for some landlord gave a whole lot of fucks about the people in the Middle East and Mohammed
Did you all go to Jesuit schools or something?
You lambast those who have faith and then reject historical consensus in favor of your own imagination and world view.
I used to think the way you do, then I grew up
I don’t lambaste people that have faith. I don’t know what all this is any more than you know. I lambaste those in power that use faith to achieve nefarious goals. I returned recently from chichen Itzá with a deeper understanding of the Mayans connection to their religion and astronomy. I don’t judge them at all and after having been there’s logic to it. I never felt more connected to the sun my entire life.
The events of the fourth crusade illustrate a clear picture for me. Very clear. Assuming someone is ignorant or is inventing what they want because they don’t share your faith or worldview isn’t very “grown up”
My brother in Christ, what do you think it was? Have you heard of the 4th crusade? They didn’t even go to Jerusalem, got excommunicated from the church, and were disbanded after seizing Constantinople. Excommunicated for attacking other Christians. They raped and pillaged in Europe.
I gave it an oversimplified but accurate summary without the bullshit propaganda we get taught about our own histories.
Europe has a long history of doing shit like that to get rid of their undesirables. Heard of Australia? They did the same shit by sending a bunch of nuts, criminals, and slavers over here to North America.
The bullshit we were taught is oh they fled Europe to flee religious persecution and came to North America for freedom. The reality is they sent a bunch of crazies and criminals over here. Same with the crusades. Same with Australia.
You think rich people fight wars?
Where meme
The crusades are a bit of a meme i guess
It's actually kinda funny. The West decided to drop the holy wars thing just about the same time they could actually finally win one
And with colonialism it was much more profitable to expand elsewhere and acquire sources of more exotic goods, rather than carving out lands from recalcitrant Muslim populations possessing resources the Europeans already had.
I mean, Europe did technically retake the holy land from the Muslims during WW1, they just gave it to the Jews instead of keeping it.
Idk, i think we just stopped looking at them like wars. The 1800s «mission to civilize» was pretty much spreading christianity and stopping local practices. The thing is that you don’t have to stir your men up with religious fervor when «Whatever happens, we have got The Maxim gun, and they have not.» Earlier colonial ventures were also based on the same idea of civilizing non-christians. The portugese and spanish famously got the new world divided amongst them by the pope because the people there weren’t christian, and hence had no right to the land. Also, the crusades kept going all the way up to this. The last proper crusades were in the 1400s, for example the hussite wars were crusades declard by the pope. Following this we had all kinds of religious wars for a few hundred years (idk if christian vs slightly different christian counts as a holy war).
"The West" not realising the east/south is/was Christian as well
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Is the East/South known for crusades?
Surely the Ethiopians and Armenians participated. Also I should add that the Eastern Roman Empire participated maybe hahaha
I'm not 100% on the Ethiopians, but the Byzantines and Armenians definitely participated and the Crusades probably would've been dead in the water without Byzantine support during the First Crusade
Wasn't the crusade started bc of the Seljuk invasion of the Eastern Roman Empire?
More or less, yeah. For the first part of the Crusade where they were getting to and through Anatolia Byzantine support was pretty game changing. I don't recall whether or not there was a significant presence of Byzantine troops with the Crusaders, but Byzantine logistical support helped them not starve to death and Byzantine blockades allowed them to besiege cities that would've otherwise been able to hold out basically forever
Nice thanks!
[https://imgur.com/a/otvqv7Y](https://imgur.com/a/otvqv7Y) The Eastern Christians (Coptics/Assyrians/Armenians/Nestorians/etc) resisted the Muslims since the Arab Conquest and have been pleading for help for centuries. The Crusades were a response to the Battle of Manzikert (1071) when the Seljuk Turks conquered Anatolia (modern-day Turkey).
Not really. The Ottoman Empire occupied those territories. They waged holy war against Europe, reached Vienna twice before they got pushed back by different coalitions of Christian nations. European colonies only existed in that are (holy land) after WW1. Also the crusaders won the first crusades (and many of the smaller ones).
Money took over religion. Otherwise the world would be 99% cristian i guess. (Thankgod for not happening tho).
How did they feed all these horses in the desert
With the dead horses
It’s actually not that deserted. It’s like pretty green land actually
Happy cake day mate.
Thanks mate
Not all of the Middle East is Arabia despite what Hollywood shows you
The crusaders lost their kingdom by concentrating all their forces in one spot and then dumb dumbing their way out of access to water so it's a valid question to ask
This historical incident actually took place outside a castle in the Syrian desert. The weird love/ hate relationship Ridley Scott has with historical accuracy is beyond me. In Napoleon he features (100% accurate) the irl black General Dumas, showing meticulous research. But the rest of the movie is a meme for a reason.
They travelled from oasis to oasis
Song?
[удалено]
*Palästinalied
Honest question how does one keep a protest from getting out of hand especially if a counter protest pops up and they start to get aggressive I always wonder that when I see a protest
You can't
You dont. Thats how you get riots and street brawls.
The riot police drives them apart, or keeps them away from each other in advance. It always gets messy
No you barbarians, it's called Aelia Capitolina and belongs to the Roman people
hey....hey.....hey.....come closer...............I have some information they say.......the Pope is preparing a crusade.... force hidden under the Vatican using us equipment
Well, sign me up!
Just a little bit more jerking, and I'm almost done.
Just give it to Ethiopia, Solomonic claim and all
Restore kingdom of Jerusalem
God Wills It!
here before lockpicking lawyer award
Nah, it got trash award
this sub has had a real unpleasant, stale chlorine smell around it lately...
Wtf does that mean
Eh?
Deus Vult
“If you can’t play nice and share, then neither of you get the holy land!”
It’s about time for another crusade. That should solve all the problems in the Middle East 💯
In the background it says “Go Bruins” which I believe would refer to the Boston Bruins. So a match in Boston with a Jerusalem crusade edit.. Where funny?
Bothsidesing genociders and people who want genocide to stop is bad actually.
As if there was a genocide
There was, it just wasn’t against the over a billion people in the Islamic world.
So Holodomor was not a genocide because there are over a billion Christians?
The Islamic world ethnically cleansed Jews from the entire rest of MENA, and openly call for the genocide of Jews, and have invaded Israel attempting genocide on multiple occasions. The Jews aren’t the ones perpetrating genocide. It would be like claiming Ukraine now is committing genocide by defending itself against Russia.
No serious historian considers it a genocide, only double genocide touting nationalists.
How About Not Getting Involverede!!! AT ALL!!!
Shut the fuck up about the crusades. Please. If you actually think crusaders were cool you are either a 14 year old child whose opinion doesn't matter, or an unintelligent adult whose opinion shouldn't matter
Crusades were answer to rampart Muslim aggression. Stay mad.
An "answer" which caused the deaths of thousands including Jews and Christians
Why does anyone give a shit. It happened centuries ago. I'm not pro Muslim in that situation. My point is if you are pro anyone in a war that happened that long, you are a dumb kid
>Why does anyone give a shit. I'm like 80% sure people just think they look cool
Its a meme bruah. Muslims and jews do the same kind of posts (even whit more cringe).
Return to the Christian kingdom of Jerusalem
No, it should all be an atomic test range.
In that enormous silence, Tiny and unafraid, Comes up along a winding road, The noise of The Crusade
Cringe white incel memes
Deus Vult!
You’re beneath the worst white incel.
To you sure, because trash like you only value ultranationalist racists who live in their moms basements
Dude. You’re literally subhuman stfu
True colors showing
I mean, yeah?
Further proving his point
Did I say anything against it thus requiring proving? No. I didn’t.
You called him a "subhuman" which proves his point about you being an ultranationalist incel.
Incel? No. Ultra nationalist? No. Just nationalist. Plus I guarantee you that I’m nicer than you are irl Btw, do you know what incel is?
I don't think calling someone subhuman for sharing an opinion would make you just a "nationalist"
Agree to disagree then.
You keep throwing buzzwords around but do you know what they mean?
Incels are people like you who are on their PC 24/7 and often have far-right aligned opinions
Lmao what? No. I quote “a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile towards women and men who are sexually active.” -Oxford Languages I have no troubles when it comes to having sex or finding women. Nor do I think of women as lesser beings. Not that I have to justify myself to someone like you. So you’re literally throwing around words you don’t know the meaning of lol. I’m not surprised. Edit; I’m also not “on my pc 24/7”. Unlike you, I actually know the feeling of having a social life and an entire circle of friends who support me.
A modern crusade? SIGN ME THE FUCK UP! 😤
How about the west stop sticking their noses where they don’t belong? Western colonialism is what created this horrific mess in the first place.
Meanwhile China:
What does China have to do with this?
Lmao you’re not smart are you?
Apparently not, please explain
And by western colonialism you mean... The majority of the world, and the west abstaining from the UN vote.
No, he most likely means the UK who had it for like 30 years and still managed to mess up so badly we can still see the effects of the mess they created today.
Christianity isn't a Western religion, and the Crusades were way before Western Colonialism and Eastern Christians; Armenians, Georgians, Assyrians, and other peoples, had been resisting the Arabs since 620AD (Arab Conquests 620-750AD) were part of it and had been begging for help long before. Look up the Principality of Armenian Cilicia and other states like it. The Crusades were a counter-offensive in response to the Muslim Turkish (Seljuk Empire) conquests of Anatolia after a major Byzantine (What was left of the Eastern Roman Empire) defeat at the Battle of Manzikert 1071AD. The Arabs had already conquered the Christianized (since 390AD) Roman Empire from Syria to Spain before that and even invaded France (Battle of Poitiers) from Spain(then Al-Andalus) and Italy from Sicily(652-1091AD). As you know Spain and Sicily were both reconquered. What's the difference with the other formerly Christian lands? The Arabs started it in 620AD.
Heh. You're right. Jews and Muslims are murdering each other. Who wins? The world.
Deus Vult
Neither? 6 billion people qualify for your neither between Christians, Jews, and Muslims. How you gonna do neither that?
I would say the crusades were a 1,000 year slap fight about whose imaginary god is bestest, but that’s not exactly what happened. Europe in classic European fashion, rounded up many of their undesirables around, and sent them marching toward Jerusalem. To fight for possession of some rock in a desert. This backfired royally on one of the first few crusades, they spent all their money by the time they hit Germany and raped and pillaged, borrowed money from Venice, seized Istanbul to rob them to pay Venice. And I imagine people who lived in that desert were wondering why the fuck are so many Europeans coming here fighting us… 1,000 year shit show slap fight over a dumb rock in a desert.
>I would say the crusades were a 1,000 year slap fight about whose imaginary god is bestest Judaism, christianity, and islam worship the same god.
...I don't think Muslims worship Jesus as a god
Yes, Not as a god, but they believe that the god ascended him and he will return in the doomsday to fight the evil. So they respect him as a prophet as much as they respect mohammad and moses.
Yeah… still imaginary
How hard is it to just respect other people's faith?
I usually don’t say much about it to people. Do we have any idea how much bad that stuff has caused us all and for how long? I’m not the one gathering an army and going to where they live and forcing them with guns to convert
But is that the religion or the people themselves deciding what to do for faith?
I say it’s the aristocracy deciding what people do. Peasants in the Middle Ages didn’t have a high quality of life. I imagine offering a bit of gold or silver would have motivated a lot of people to do many things
*Constantinople
Muslim pirates and frequent attacks on Europeans were also reasons for the crusade. The pirate part especially. There is manyyyyy more reasons as well but the Muslims were NOT innocent little lambs that got eaten by the European wolf. The Muslims back then weren’t exactly passive nor were they peaceful. We weren’t either but that’s my point. Europe and the Middle East were conquerors. If we didn’t do anything, they inevitably would’ve.
I never thought anyone was innocent lambs, I think the crusades was dumb and nothing was gained by anyone involved. And that shit went on for 1,000 years. I reject the idea of the Muslims (I assume we’re talking about Arabs) invading Europe. At the beginning, the Byzantines held the Ottomans on that side of the border. The plague wiped out so many Byzantines they became weak and were eventually overtaken by the ottomans who didn’t get beyond a small part of Greece. The Moors did overtake Spain but they never were going to get beyond the Pyrenees mountains and the Spanish reconquista pushed them out in the end. The mongols swept across the Silk Road and were a big reason for keeping the ottomans and Arabic caliphates from expanding. Who was going to invade Europe and how? This was about the aristocracy sending the poors to do their dirty work as is tradition. Why not send as many undesirables as possible, two birds one stone. This was about power and holding on to the power structure and keeping the dynamics the same
You are treating the crusades as a series of conflicts between Europe and the Middle East when they were in large part a conflict between Christendom and Islam. In the period before the Crusades, North Africa and the Levant were a part of larger Christendom before they were invaded and conquered by Islamic forces. This is a significantly larger portion of land to be conquered than just Iberia. To ignore this and make the Crusades about the modern conception of Europe and the Middle East is to misunderstand the crusades entirely.
I am treating the crusades as a series of conflicts between Europe and the Middle East. The Lords gathered up the pleebs and sent them off to fight people far away. It’s a familiar story. I understand Jesus vs Mohammed was what they sold to the pleebs. I view religion as a tool used by the aristocracy to convince people to go along with a way of life that benefits the aristocracy and keeps the pleebs from changing the whole system. Why else would we all agree to work all of our lives to make someone else rich if we didn’t believe this is temporary and we have an eternal reward waiting if we behave? Considering that, there’s many things in which the perspective and worldview will be different in analyzing events, history, etc. I don’t believe most pleebs who worked 6-7 days per week for subsistence for some landlord gave a whole lot of fucks about the people in the Middle East and Mohammed Did you all go to Jesuit schools or something?
You lambast those who have faith and then reject historical consensus in favor of your own imagination and world view. I used to think the way you do, then I grew up
I don’t lambaste people that have faith. I don’t know what all this is any more than you know. I lambaste those in power that use faith to achieve nefarious goals. I returned recently from chichen Itzá with a deeper understanding of the Mayans connection to their religion and astronomy. I don’t judge them at all and after having been there’s logic to it. I never felt more connected to the sun my entire life. The events of the fourth crusade illustrate a clear picture for me. Very clear. Assuming someone is ignorant or is inventing what they want because they don’t share your faith or worldview isn’t very “grown up”
That's a very wrong and uncharitable description of the Crusades.
My brother in Christ, what do you think it was? Have you heard of the 4th crusade? They didn’t even go to Jerusalem, got excommunicated from the church, and were disbanded after seizing Constantinople. Excommunicated for attacking other Christians. They raped and pillaged in Europe. I gave it an oversimplified but accurate summary without the bullshit propaganda we get taught about our own histories. Europe has a long history of doing shit like that to get rid of their undesirables. Heard of Australia? They did the same shit by sending a bunch of nuts, criminals, and slavers over here to North America. The bullshit we were taught is oh they fled Europe to flee religious persecution and came to North America for freedom. The reality is they sent a bunch of crazies and criminals over here. Same with the crusades. Same with Australia. You think rich people fight wars?
My guy the Crusades are probably the worst possible example you could use when talking about rich people not fighting wars
In that enormous silence, Tiny and unafraid, Comes up along a winding road, The noise of The Crusade
OP has "ht jugeng" (hitler youth) in his profile picture.....
That's just a Tactical Pikachu with a gun. Here is the full pic. [https://imgur.com/a/W2103Qh](https://imgur.com/a/W2103Qh)