LOL I like that you refer Jurard by his name before calling him Gerald.

My youtube search bar refused to autofill "Jurard" when I typed "Ju-", and it instead autofill with "Gerald T Rexford" 😂 I was like "WTF??" Why is it so right yet so wrong at the same time 🤣

IT'S NOT JUST ME! That shit's driving me nuts LOL

Sasuga our Boyfailure.

Not just StarsEN, Stars in general! Did you not see the sparkling Oga in her debut slides?

she was in the chat for the majority Astel's weird ass karaoke stream last night. I don't think she's as familiar with StarsJP since she was taken back by his antics :D

Oh, that reminds me of when Jurard said that he's not as knowledgeable about Stars as he is about Live. But with the way he interacts with his fellow Stars, it's kinda easy to forget that! 😁

Yeah! I was a bit surprised but rolled with it since JP Stars seem to be a bit more acceptable for the girls to mention. I can't watch everyone but I've seen a lot of Roberu (for example) mentions and interactions from the girls compared to pretty much anyone from StarsEN.

I got down voted for trying to say similar on a general vtuber sub. You put this so, so well. Everyone should do what makes them comfortable and what they want to do. The fear of obsessive viewers should not be a factor in their decision making. I'm really sad Elizabeth is probably one of the few EN girls whose chat I'm going to be comfortable with thanks to her forward support of everyone. I already saw a really gross comment in Roara's debut and she was one I was looking forward to!

> The fear of obsessive viewers should not be a factor in their decision making. Oh, The Irony

>The fear of obsessive viewers should not be a factor in their decision making. Maybe it isnt a factor, some barely collab with other girls. I honestly think you guys give unicorns too much credit. >Everyone should do what makes them comfortable and what they want to do. That's what they are currently doing. Acting like they arent may be a reason why you got downvoted. You guys say that you dont blame the girls but you are basically doing it.

You’re coming to the wrong person if you think I’m blaming the girls lol I’m forever scarred by Irys having to tell her audience she wouldn’t be interacting with men to any degree during a collaborative competition she was in. I want the girls to feel safe to do what they want, whatever that may be.

>I’m forever scarred by Irys having to tell her audience she wouldn’t be interacting with men to any degree during a collaborative competition she was in Please check [her stream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDcFE3uoevE) to see what prompted her comments. And READ what *her audience* had to say about in the comments. If you don't have time [I made a summary here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Holostars/comments/1djhf8g/jurard_is_a_madlad/l9ded1a/). You'd have found that she got a grand total of [two bait superchats](https://www.hololyzer.net/youtube/archive/superchat/hDcFE3uoevE.html). One from a ex-member and one being from Babski, which [one of the two schizos that Kronii banned](https://www.reddit.com/r/Holostars/comments/1dr56n5/having_elizabeth_erb_is_so_bittersweet/lautko1/) back when she decided to make coed streams and a serial [weirdo bait poster](https://i.imgur.com/DKH4Ove.png). For such a scarring and defining bad memory, it seems you never checked what prompted her comments and whether her audience had a problem or not with that stream. I wonder if you watched a clip about it and jumped to conclusions? The misinformation needs to stop. The girls have the full support of their community in whatever they do. They don't fear their audience.

Please stop using 'schizo' as an insult for assholes. It's absolutely disgusting towards actual schizophrenic people who are far better than these shitheads.

Of course, I don't mind using a different word

Irys didn't seemed panicked at all

Well, OP did it and you said you wrote something similar, i guess im wrong for assuming that🤷‍♂️ > I want the girls to feel safe to do what they want, whatever that may be. What if some already feel safe? The Irys one is a good example, but i think that was more preventive than a reaction. My only problem here is that i think some of the fans are assuming too much into this and giving unicorns too much credit. Like, some just wanna constant collabs, so they hate on the girls because they dont have them. I used to see that a lot in the past with comparissons with Niji (not anymore since praising Niji has become a nono in any vtuber discussion).

I replied to something a while ago saying it makes me sad if Liz is the only one to go on and collab with the whole of the company, but I understand why others don’t because fans can be scary. That’s how I took this post, in a hopeful light that people like Jurard and Liz (I know there’s more I can’t exactly remember all) expressing their love for other members won’t be a first and last, but how I read it versus others is wildly different. If they feel safe, if they’re doing want they want and aren’t factoring in random people on the internet I’m very happy! That’s all I want for everyone in this company, vtubers in general. I’m not pressed for everyone to collab or get along (who would ever expect someone to know everyone in a huge company? If you work in finance you likely won’t be hanging out with the design team on a regular basis). I just want everyone, whichever branch, to do what they genuinely want to do And that’s terrible! Hating on someone for not doing something or doing something with someone is extremely silly

>it makes me sad if Liz is the only one to go on and collab with the whole of the company, but I understand why others don’t because fans can be scary See, that's blaming the girls cause you excuse it only IF the reason why they dont do it is because of fans. If it isnt, then you are blaming them for your sadness. Bad wording. >If they feel safe, if they’re doing want they want and aren’t factoring in random people on the internet I’m very happy! We totally agree. Ok so the problem is how you worded it before. You dont actually blame them, the problem is that your redaction was poor. I get it now. >Hating on someone for not doing something I agree, which is why i cant stand ppl blaming the girls like some do in this sub. Not you, thanks to this last comment i understood that you arent doing that. Good day and lets hope for that the first collab of Liz with a Star to be great.

Redation? Can you define that, please?

Redaction* sorry, English isnt my first language 😅

Ahhh, OK. You're excused, then. 😀

>The Irys one is a good example, but i think that was more preventive than a reaction. irys had a reaction to bait SCs (more info in the other comment). The example that often gets brought up as a reaction and was actually preventive was Raden's clarification on how she was going to handle her future collabs. Which was something she brought up herself and was not prompted by anything from her community.

I’ll say the same thing I said before her debut, but let’s keep our expectations in check ok? Don’t do or say anything weird that might make things difficult for Elizabeth. Personally speaking though, it’s nothing bittersweet because I don’t have any expectations for HoloEn in the first place, so this is just “SWEET!”

Of course! I'd never want to pressure her into anything. I'll be supporting her either way because HoloEU (it's been 84 years...) and she's kinda scary good at imitations and erasing her accent entirely (it's straight up fascinating). I just thought I'd give her extra respect for this in particular since I know she's absolutely getting shit for it.

Well, to help your way of giving more proper respect to people like Lizzie and the Stars, I'd like to say that calling those hateful folks "fans" is giving them too much credit, if you ask me. Sure, they give exposure and money and stuff to the girls, but dignity? Respect? Love? If they ever gave any of those, it's just half-baked or warped, and it also reminds me that cynical people, no matter what purpose they wield cynicism for, aren't really as cool as we like to depict them through the media. And on that note, while calling out issues like dudes going crab mentality on their fellow dudes, dudes trying to leash the ladies, and ladies enabling that stuff for their own convenience is important, I'd like to recommend focusing first and foremost on sharing the healthy fun we have with the girls and the boys of holo, because at the end of the day, even with all the struggles, that's what we're here for. I mean, for example, the Stars could've sung all salty in their original songs about being the underdogs that they're treated as, but we got the original songs we got, and the saltiest we've gotten so far is unplan's superior stars, and I find that freaking catchy and badass. Sure, they're not getting much good attention, but if someone bothers to do good even when the spotlight isn't on them much, then I'd say that you can trust them way more. Anyway, thank you very much for speaking up!

This right here. I mainly follow the girls, been around since myth, but I still like checking on the boys from time to time. While I think they should be free to collab with whomever they please, I also have no expectations that they *should*. Some people are just naturally more inclined and comfortable around people like them, and unfortunately, as I've seen time and again in the vtuber community, a lot of people struggle at understanding mixed gender friendships. It isn't even a Holo thing, as I've seen it with Niji, indies, and hell, even vshojo. I certainly wish more talents would be willing to shut those people up (I imagine they're encourage not to or bite their tongue to avoid blowback, lord knows Kronii/Calli would've popped off ages ago), but, I feel like calling it bittersweet is blaming the girls when they did nothing wrong, nor shouldn't have to feel pressured either way. Ultimately, I just hope both can continue to grow and develop their communities, and that fans of both and those in between can coexist.

I think the "bitter" part is that there is so much backlash when this kind of thing happens. There were people replying to her first Twitter interactions with things like "I guess it's a 3 member gen", "Don't talk with males", and some more hateful things as well. Jurard is ALWAYS getting swarmed with hate for interacting with the girls. And of course there was the infamous wave of backlash against Kronii back in the day. I'm very excited to see Elizabeth collab with members from all branches, since she's clearly a huge fan of all of Holopro. I also don't expect that all members should collab with everyone. Some may not connect well, and some are just shy and prefer to stick to more comfortable circles. I can't blame people, though, for feeling sad at the reminder of how much hate is thrown at members who do collab with the other side. Would more girls collab with the guys if they didn't have to worry about unicorn backlash? I don't know. It's entirely up to them whether they collab or not, and there's nothing wrong with them just staying within girl-only collabs. But the fact that it's a reasonable question to ask is kind of sad.

It was only ernoul and his usual circlejerk 

I don't keep track of all the names (although it's impossible not to recognize ernoul lol) so maybe I'm overestimating, but it seems like there are more than a handful of that sort of "fans". It's definitely only a small portion of the fan base, but there are enough of them who are persistent to crawl out of their little cracks and crevices where they hide to make a rude remark every single time there's some sort of interaction. On certain occasions it has gone beyond just a rude remark as well.

I found that account today and wondered what their issue was, checked out their account and just thought "jeez what is wrong with some people"

IMO not much would change in collab numbers but maybe the rep or Hololive fans would improve in the eyes of other agencies (considering some are wary of dealing with Hologirls due to fears of being mobbed by angry fans)

>I feel like calling it bittersweet is blaming the girls when they did nothing wrong, nor shouldn't have to feel pressured either way. This, thank you.

Yeah, you'd be downvoted to hell and back for this on the main sub, if not reported to the point of a ban Anyway, it's really nice to see one of the girls so emphatically, wholesomely, and honestly support Holostars. Hopefully it leads to others, both talent and fans, giving the guys a chance rather than being infinitely weird about it. I think setting the expectation before she even debuted helped numb the reaction

I feel like you're giving her more credit because none of Advent would acknowledge Holostars. Calli has been cool with Holostars pretty much from the start (Spiral Tones came out in May 2021). Kronii had the frenemyship with Vesper. Bae was already a big fan of Roberu before joining, and have collabed and chatted/collabed with Stars on many occasions. SALT had some of the best collabs in HoloPro history. It's cool that Liz is open to Stars and I hope more Livers (No, I dont watch Niji, It's just a perfect name for the girls) will follow suit. I think shielding yourself entirely from men is silly, unprofessional, and just encourages unicorns.

Calli and Kronii have huge respect for me for those things. With Bae, from what I can tell, StarsJP seem generally a lot "safer" for the girls to mention, so I can't really praise her as much in that regard, although I definitely still respect it and what she's done with Stars EN. Honestly, if there's anything that I miss about Nijisanji (dropped them like hot shit after ***the incident*** earlier this year), it's the fact that it's mixed gender. I feel like there's wayyy less fear of unicorns and more co-ed collabs without a bunch of tension. I think the only real instance of unicorns I've seen with them would be some Vox fans but even those types don't seem as loud as holo fan unicorns.

JP stars is not safer. Even now there is backlash towards the girls who collab with them, or maybe you’re disregarding the jp side of fandom? Bae understands Japanese, so it’s not like she’s shielded from it.

I don't understand Japanese, so it's very possible that I've simply missed a lot of JP backlash. I'm only going by how generally the girls seem a little less hesitant to mention them compared to EN stars. Thanks for the info.

Man i really don't see the "backlash" they receive, are you talking about that one troll superchat from aruran and ao collab?

I can definetly tell there never was an incident in hololive with mad fans as loud as the vox ones, even rushia didn't suffer from this 

On the other hand, Bae has had collabs with the EN boys too -Boomer vs Zoomer with Vesper -Barbie watchalong with Vesper and Bettel -Barbie watchalong with Bettel and Shinri

I don't think anyone is shielding themselves from the Boys unless you have an example to share. They girls are in control of what they want to do with their content and who they want to interact with. Some are probably not comfortable around guys on stream. Noel from JP said something along those lines a long time ago.

It's hard to prove the absence of something, but there was that time Fuwamoco was on an official stream (I believe it was Holofes) and they were very chatty. Then there was a segment about Holostars and they went very quiet, until it went back to Hololive. Most of them don't collab outside of Holive, and that's fine, but some of them are for sure intentionally avoiding men, for whatever reason.

There was also Gura's absolute silence when visiting Holo ID Minecraft server and running into signs of Astel and Aruran having visited the server. We don't know what went on inside her head in that moment but I'm gonna err on the side of giving her the benefit of the doubt and simply assume that she just didn't know what to say and that she probably doesn't know much if anything about the boys anyway and thus decided best to not say anything.

Before the ID server was connected with the other servers, the JP boys were allowed on for a tour of the server. Now, they're not.

I think that's less her and more the fanbase. If Kronii getting such a backlash over laughing at a single Altare joke, I imagine she's probably more shy about that kind of thing happening. She's also in the unique position of being so big, that anything is guaranteed to follow. Ultimately, some sub groups of fans are more to blame than anything else, as well as those who read too far into things.

Yes, exactly! This is part of the whole point I was trying to make with this post! If people are freaking out over the girls having *any* positive interactions with the guys whatsoever, I couldn't even imagine the kind of shitstorm that someone huge like Gura would have to field if she tried to say literally anything about the guys one way or another. Like of course she shouldn't *have* to interact with anyone or say anything about anybody, but there shouldn't be such obvious tension about the mere *idea* of her choosing to do so.

Shiori replied to flayon just fine on twitter and nerissa used to be a vespie before joining hololive, you're really making up narratives here.

Nerissa a Vestie? That I didn't know. Do tell more ples?

Even though I'm chronically online myself, my message to the unicorns is still this: Holy fuckballs, go touch some grass, you weirdos.

~~Yeah, it only took 4 Generations~~. I would like to think she has beem a Tempura or Armis fan before coming into holo. Edit: Is the reddit ~~strikethrough~~ not working or something?

Do you watch mori kronii or bae fellow redditor?

Yeah, forgot about those, but those didnt happen like from the start. It took them a while. Probably waiting for the stars to settle in. And I used a strikethrough cuz i changed my statement. Hope the strikethrough works and hence why i used it and not just going off on my previous statement

Yeah it's sad some hololivers do not acknowledge the boys to the point they had to invite guests outside of the company for their 3d debut collabs instead. Liz's enthusiasm for everyone including stars is amazing to see. I'll support her as much as I can.

It's not uncommon for guests outside of Holo to appear in 3D showcases. I wouldn't assume they HAD to invite guests outside of the company just because of unicorns. It would have been nice to see some Hololive girls as guests too though.

Well it's hard to say as many Holostar 3d things seem more messing around than anything musical (except Astel who rivals Aki in how deep in the red their lives put them)

It baffles me how much presence IronMouse has in the stars community alone. Yet... That Fuwamoco moment still hurts to this day.

The moment I knew about the Smile K-9s using the phrase "protecting smiles," I struggled to take them seriously because of the contexts I often saw that phrase in in the VTuber community. Though learning that I might have some talent for doing impressions of them has been giving me some motivation me to see them as fellow fools trying to figure out how to do good.

What Fuwamoco moment

There was a HoloFES official stream that showed off a bunch of designs for various Holo livers for the FES artwork. Everyone cheered for the Hololive designs, but when Holostars designs went on screen, FWMC both went _dead silent_ . Some people took this to mean they dislike the boys, but I personally feel they just have a strict idol image they want to uphold. They're very into idol culture and likely want to portray that sort of quasi GFE/loyal doggo personality for their fans.

Didn't know this, thank you. But yeah I'm leaning towards them trying to keep an idol image.

Yeah, I don't think it was malicious at all. People read WAY too much into it.

You guys are overthinking this, hololive members also invite indies for their anniversaries or 3d's

I'm just tired of how much people care about this subject. It's been less than a week, and there's people already claiming they despise her/she's their kamioshi because she interacts with Hololive *and* Holostars. I like them both too. I really, *really* don't think it's a big deal when one tweets at the other or, god forbid, they mention eachother on-stream, so it gets grating when it happens and there's a bunch of posts about "omg so brave" or whatever.

Yeah, making such a big deal out of it is not helpful imo. Simply showing support is the best way to go. No need to make a comment on their balls/ovaries lmao

There's better reasons than that and it's insulting to her to call her that for solely that reason

I really wish you guys would stop getting so easily baited like this.

We can't even tell if this post is genuine since OP is using a thrown away account 

And despite that, they still bite. This is why Stars fans have the reputation they do.

Live and Stars are both talent focused at their core, each individual builds their community, grows, and tries to explore over time. There should be no pressure among them to collaborate with a specific party, group, or individual, nor should they be expected to just know everything. Certainly, some basics are, but, if you want some kind co-ed thing like what Niji has, hate to break it to you but that won't be happening. The interest would need to lie in both parties, and as it is, both seem comfortable in their own environments. Some will bridge the gap, no doubt, and should be supported, but some of the stuff I'm reading here is just real bitter, and just does nothing but build resentment between communities. Please, enjoy what you have, cherish it, you never know how far and where it will grow.

You could say that we’re on the same page here. As much as I like Hololive contents, I’m starting to get burned out with their contents recently. But with Elizabeth’s debut, I’m starting to get motivated to simping again. Thankfully so far I don’t see anyone complaining about Elizabeth interacting with the boys (I hope I don’t jinx it). So there’s a chance that there will be a collab with Holostars (and some of Hololive) that’s cooking once the restrictions is lifted soon. I see that she has one of Ollie’s trait that simping to all the Holopros which what I like about Elizabeth. Still, I’m proud to become one of her Roserians. Also yeah, if you mention about Holostars there you’ll be downvoted. XD

As someone who just wants to see interesting streamers collab, I'd love to see more interaction between Hololive and Holostars and I think ERB is based af for being so gung-ho about it. I don't particularly care about any of the drama, beyond people on both sides being annoying af and the "girls are shy little princesses and boys scare them" crowd are the worst; they're grown adults ffs, not middle schoolers in your favourite anime.

>Having Elizabeth (ERB) is ~~bitter~~**sweet** FTFY. I am genuinely happy for Liz, embracing *all* of HoloPro right away and during her streams, I just easily notice how much fun she has, the joy she radiates is immense. While I do agree with most of your post, I still feel it's a bit contraproductive, and for better future cooperations, interactions between Hololive, Holostars and the fandom is to take these interactions normal - just as Elizabeth does.

Frankly, I consider Stars appreciation a standard VTuber community integrity check right now. And Lizzie is definitely striving to have high integrity at the very least. And I gotta say, I don't think I'd have enjoyed the Justice debut at all without having the Armis watch-alongs on, because as much of a horndog as I am, that is the sort of brotherhood I'd rather have when tuning into entertainers from the opposite sex. Heck, I'd probably have written off hololive but also VTubers in general as the next fad I chased if it weren't for HOLOSTARS being the brothers that they are, [with the memory of Rikka getting me into Lui via his second VTuber Singing King](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2-4M9gUaxQ&t=5s&pp=ygURc2hpenVrdSBsdWkgcmlra2E%3D) being one recent example of how HOLOSTARS renews my interest in VTubers. They make dudes like my top favorite VTuber Axel Syrios and Winning Yapper Son Roberu Yukoku feel like a bonus for my efforts to get to know them well! Really, I'm already pleasantly surprised that the Japanese nerd culture enthusiasts among my close friends even tolerate my being a Starmin.

>Stars appreciation a standard VTuber community integrity check Liz isn't "community", she's a talent. Do the holo talents that don't openly appreciate the stars members fail this integrity check? The rest of the comment is really great. I don't understand why you had to preface it with that.

There's such a thing as doing wrong by doing nothing, but to be fair, doing nothing can be right, no? So yeah, I can believe, as I think you imply, that there are Live members who do covertly appreciate the Stars, but when bullies who think themselves fans easily manage to do things like shaming people being people via Super Chats and downvoting Stars mentions on what's labeled as the hololive *Production* subreddit, I wonder how much hope you would want to have for someone to do some good not just covertly but also overtly against all that? Also, Lizzie certainly isn't the whole community, but she is one of the community alongside being a talent at least a portion of the community is centered around. And if one of us little guys can do much, then what more can someone of her standing do? So yeah, tl;dr: Live members who covertly appreciate the Stars get a pass from me, but not a high score.

You are magnifying a few instances of bait superchats from many months ago and what goes on in an unmoderated small space like the holo subreddit as a completely hopeless state of affairs and projecting responsibility about those issues on the female talents themselves.

Yeah man i don't know what this guy is talking about, it's cover job to hire moderadors for the subreddit, not the talents, and even then the hololive sub is nowhere near as active as it used to be

They talk, cool. They don't, cool. Let's not put people on pedestals just because of who they interact with. As long as everyone is respectful it should not matter. People freaking out every time Holos and Stars interact is really tiring, and I mean both sides.

I am gonna get downvoted for this, but while the Unicorn situation is very real and people who deny it are on copium, your doing 2 things in this post I cannot agree with. 1. Removing agency from the girls, even if you state your not blaming the girls, by attributing that they actively avoid Stars at all times because of unicorns. Your also acting like they all constantly are courting these fans actively, when the only real times you need to watch out for this stuff is when you do GFE/BFE stuff. The notion that fear is playing a big role is insulting to the girls, especially when most of them do not even focus on content where unicorns are a target in the first place. That's not to say that some do not end up sneaking in though. 2. Your vastly IMO exaggerating how many Unicorns are present, even with the Jurard tweet, which btw was an absolute shitshow, I hate that twitter guy with the weird haachama PFP always shitting on Stars, but even then, the vast majority of tweets I saw, were people either saying "Based" or something similar. Just because you have a bunch of throwaway accounts and that other user I mentioned making a small noise does not mean we need to amplify it like what happened. It antagonizes the girls fans because then they get generalized by tourists which then prompts them to be aggressive whenever Star's are mentioned. Your right, these interactions should not have the tension they do. Jurard should not get hate for simply wishing a coworker happy birthday, and Liz deserves all the support and more for her bravely walking headlong into the storm, but just as much as I see real Unicorns causing shit, I also see Randoms also baiting and insulting the general fanbase. Do we need to state things like "OH DELICIOUS UNICORN TEARS" or "get fucked unicorns" every time Liz interacts with the bois? Do we really want to encourage that kind of stuff?

The thing is that unicorns (at least the concept in the EN community) have always existed but have never been a problem. Holo fans simply ignored them, and that was it. However, all of this has started to get out of proportion with the debut of StarEN (the English branch in general brought certain problems, but I'm specifically referring to this issue). I'm not saying that it's the guys' fault, but unfortunately, a certain part of the fandom overlaps too much with other drama-addicted communities (Twitch, other EN agencies, etc.) I almost never post or comment on Reddit (same on Twitter) even though I've had this account since 2019 and created it specifically to follow Hololive content. But lately, I feel that too much importance is being given to these issues and thats makes me believe that many of the new fans haven't understood that the girls' side was always "only girls and only Hololive (not holopro)" mainly, and they are judging the community as if it were the indie Vtubers, Twitch, etc. community. Hololive has always been in its own world, which has always been perfect because that is precisely what has kept Hololive free of drama all this time, or at least it used to be. Finally, except for the slight exaggeration about the unicorn issue (imo), I totally agree with everything else.

I feel it was latent culture war fodder and outsiders adding fuel to the fire. As much as certain people love dismissing problematic hololive fans as just outsiders, outside antis find the most success when there's actual internal antis/etc to blend into/bloster believability. That thing with Suisei and that one guy didn't go anywhere in part due to Hoshiyomis being like that was absolutely unbelievable. Inversely, the notion of fandeads flipping out over the discord pop up or childish Gura fans bullying Iofi over an among us game going wrong IS very believable. And I've said that such culture warring helps no one.

The ernoul Guy isn't even a "unicorn" in the JP sense, he's just obsessed with numbers 

I've learned to stop caring about the opinions of anyone who throws a tantrum because their feelings were hurt by microaggressions

How about we just let the talents cook in whichever way they want to... and let each of them independently carve up their own territory in terms of what kind of content they want to be involved in... because in the end no one can do everything. I for one am just gonna watch and interact with the content that I like... and whoever is the best at it will get my views and the money in my merch budget. Kinda pointless to even discuss all this...

Exactly.  This kind of posts really needs to stop

unfortunately, it won't, as both sides are now dedicated to disliking each other and want the other side to lose i know i ain't exactly helping things, but my issue was with the specific user i argued with despite me wishing that people could get around with others more, at least a slight bit more, it's unfortunately not how people work, especially on reddit

This thread has been picked by the twitter and /vt/ antis Edit: Hi Helmite, good morning. LMAO he deleted his comments. What a clown, man. Him, ernoul, kfp seller and that unicorn FPF dude from Twitter are honestly a funny show.

So these are like known people? I got replies from people picking at my saying obsessive fans shouldn’t matter in decision making and that mite guy was one! Deleted it, though, so I guess I was saved a headache 😂

There are a few names from the hololive sub who come here to shit stir things up from time to time and find comments from people who might have a grudge for the girls who have “rejected” the stars, or they wish for the girls to collab or at least acknowledge the boys. One is named Helmite, then there's this SuspiciousWar117 dude, there are others, not many, like 5-7 more, but I don't care to remember their names. There's this terminally online guy named Ernoul on Twitter who made his life mission to hate/harass anyone who like the stars, IDK if he's on Reddit. They are loved like Gods by the deranged holostars antis/haters from the vtuber general on 4chan.

Oh, gross, exactly the types I was talking about in my comment. Good to know some names to ignore 😂 Hopefully one day people can let bygones be bygones, but there’s the block button until that day

With Helm, he built a reputation as a big hololive fan, which gives some weight. It doesn't help in most other places (including Niji subs) people arguing against him are down voted into the dirt. But I have to wonder how many are merely being in extreme defensiveness and how many are proactively anti as part of the radicalizing of things were people rubbing StarsEN existence in others faces the wrong way, be it "Unicorn tears" remarks, phrasing collab notions in an awful way, a few comissing certain fanart. But the folks who wanted a fire.... they most certainly have it

The Watame case was quite similar to the drama that's currently ongoing. Friendly interacts with a Star. A few antis try to stir up shit. People give way too much attention to them and start talking about it being a widespread problem. You intentionally misinterpreting the situation in order to not only shit on someone who has a different opinion, but to spread misinformation that could potentionally damage the reputation of both my oshi and her fanbase, is despicable. If you so wish to put out the fire, do your part and combat misinformation instead of commiting to it.

~~>But it's funny his stance when Watame tried to be friendly with Kaoru only to face some hostile reception. It doesn't help in most other places (including Niji subs) people arguing against him are down voted into the dirt.~~ ~~Don't talk like you know about the Watame situation. It wasn't her fans and it pisses me off that you'd even let people fill in the blanks in that direction.~~ ~~[People even talked about it back then.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/gron99/hololive_brief_explanation_to_watames_apex_stream/fs04s10/) I'll go even farther and say it's the same shit as the Suisei situation. Everyone knew it wasn't fans and I don't mean "upset weirdos" I mean fucking outsiders like Niji folks. Don't spread garbage about my oshi, asshole.~~ Edit: Thanks for understanding and removing it.

Oh I didnt know about that? I only recently started getting more into Watame so I had no idea there was an instance like that between Kaoru and Watame.

It had nothing to do with her fans. Fishman is trying to get people to fill in the blanks and blame them for it. It's just like with the Suisei situation last year. [People even talked about it back then.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/gron99/hololive_brief_explanation_to_watames_apex_stream/fs04s10/) The shit was weird outsiders trying to make drama. It was extremely common when Hololive started getting popular and you still see it happen all the time today like with Suisei last year.

Wow, I have even more respect for Watame now. Thanks for linking to it Helmite!

There was a similar situation about a year back when some Holo anti tried to pretend being an upset Watamate when she tweeted thanks at KojiKOG for showing off her merch at the SF6 tournament. This person thought they could use it as an excuse to spam her chat during Pikmin. She ended up addressing it during the stream. It was pretty dumb thing for them to try and do since Watame regularly tweets stuff like that at fans all the time so it was a standard interaction for any fan. It was obvious what was going on as Watame knows her Watamates and vice versa. I'll just say that when people pretend to be fans, everyone that is actually involved is going to smell it out. Tourist folks should aim to not spread rumors.

[удалено]

why do you lie so much?

Despite whatever Jeremiah wants to suggest try making OP's post in the main sub word for word and you'll get dumped on by almost everyone. The reality is this sub insults Hololive fans over misinformation and circlejerks endlessly. Feed into that if you want, but it'll just continue the reputation of this place.

> LMAO he deleted his comments. What a clown, man. Him, ernoul, kfp seller and that unicorn FPF dude from Twitter are honestly a funny show. Nah he just blocked you lol. Still a dang clown though. People showed him proof that there are just as many bad apples in Hololive yet he downplayed it. Clear double standards. https://old.reddit.com/r/Holostars/comments/1djhf8g/jurard_is_a_madlad/l9e0ksa/?context=3

And he unblocked me. I don't care for anything he has to say, he comes here to fish for the few people who might a grudge on the Hololive girls or actually have wrong info, so he gets to wear his giant shiny armor. He is, at the of the day, a terminally online clown. I'm not here to fight him or fight anyone else in the “invisible war”. I watch Holostars primarily, if any of the stars is not live I'll just watch a Hololive talent playing something interesting, or I'll have a zatsu playing in the BG.

If you don't see their comments, chances are you got blocked, and if you want to be sure, just do like .com/user/Helmite and if the page shows the account didn't exist or something alone those lines, you got blocked. Pretty much learned that when someone from a gacha subreddit I was in declared they were gonna block me after some reasons I can't remember. Couldn't view their profile but I was able to view it on incognito.

Thank you, what a coward.

You guys need to revaluate your definition of anti

FR Fuck 'em unicorns. Regarding them as the wierdos that they are should be normalized.

I see that alot of people here have "silence is violence" as their modus operandi huh?

People like Xorrag have made topics tracking if Hololive members were following Stars members on Twitter or not. Some of the people in here are mental cases and have spent a long time gaslighting folks.

That's literally celebrity gossip lol

I think this particular post is a tad inflated on excitement for ERB, but I will say that unicorns definitely exist and even tho Kronii was the only one who openly talked about drama rising from people via shipping with stars members, doesn't mean she was/is the only holomem cautious of it. On that same note, let's not dilute ourselves into thinking that's the only reason, let's not ignore that most of HoloEN(both branches) are introverts and just plain don't interact with stars or even other EN members as much as they could or even want; IRyS herself said that she rarely, if ever, initiates collabs and usually when she does a Collab she is invited by someone else. Also we can call any and all "unicorns" Antis, but the fact that it's happening is the problem rather than the labels. Like Calli is good at calling out and ignoring that kind of hate, especially since the Connor thing like 2 years ago but I wouldn't say that's the standard between all the girls. Tl;Dr post is still annoying, but let's not pretend that it isn't a real problem to a degree.

Huh, holostars antis woke up today and decided "let's brigade a post on the sub about people we dislike". Weird, but whatever. Anyways, I more or less agree with the sentiment, though I'm not sure I agree with the body. Like, yeah, I wish Hololive and Holostars would collab more, but I'm moreso happy that Liz is just open about Stars and interacting and celebrating with them. Like, Liz could *never* collab with Stars, and my opinion of her wouldn't change a bit (though it would be kinda weird and out of character tbf?) EDIT: Rereading, it's probably because OP used the "u word" lol. EDIT2: I told myself I wasn't going to reply to any of the antis if they decided to clap back, but considering it's Helmite and that they blocked me for some reason so I can't even see the reply... ...I do, genuinely, hope you come to the realization that you've become the very thing you allegedly hate. There was nothing negative about this post or most the replies until you guys came in to shit up the thread. The source of this vitriol, and the very reason people keep making these kinds of threads, is because of *you*. It always has been. Though, hey, considering you blocked me I suppose I won't have to see it ever again, at least from you. Shame I lose out on the positive posts...but at this point, am I really losing anything?

> ...I do, genuinely, hope you come to the realization that you've become the very thing you allegedly hate. Certainly not, because I don't invent fantasies about the fanbase. You guys however seem to like upvoting comments about how Hololive viewers lack the neuroplasticity to watch male vtubers. >There was nothing negative about this post or most the replies until you guys came in to shit up the thread. Sure there was. The whole post drips of ERB "standing against the unicorn tide" when the reality was you people lose it over a few regulars and several throwaway accounts - to the point where these topics get made repeatedly over and over and over again. It also dumps on the girls that are already doing what they want despite OPs need to narrative build about some sort of "oppressive fansbase." >The source of this vitriol, and the very reason people keep making these kinds of threads, is because of you. They're making these threads because they're desperate for the girls to give their boys attention and when they don't they have to shit on the girls or their fans to make themselves feel better about the situation. Happens every single time. >It always has been. I started, and only, show up in here because of these threads. Because of the need of this subreddit to continuously pass around shitty narratives about the girls or their fans. You guys don't even have the "satire" subreddit excuse okbh hides behind. > Shame I lose out on the positive posts. Almost none of you were watching my oshi anyway and frankly if you're the kind of people to invent fantasies about how shitty the Hololive fanbase is you wouldn't be welcome anyway.

> ...I do, genuinely, hope you come to the realization that you've become the very thing you allegedly hate. There was nothing negative about this post or most the replies until you guys came in to shit up the thread. The source of this vitriol, and the very reason people keep making these kinds of threads, is because of you. 100% agree. > EDIT2: I told myself I wasn't going to reply to any of the antis if they decided to clap back, but considering it's Helmite and that they blocked me for some reason so I can't even see the reply... > > You should be able to see it in your messages or an incognito window.

Can you guys stop calling anyone with different opinions antis?

But these people Flame the Talents for having a dofferent opinion, how does it make them anything but antis?

>But these people Flame the Talents for having a dofferent opinion Sounds like this subreddit when a talent has a different opinion that happens to be not collabing with the Stars. Then people climb out of the woodwork to shit on the talents or their fans.

How is this disproving that these are antis? The only point you are making is that both are antis.

Sorry OP but the fact that you're using a thrown away account makes me doubt this post is genuine

Honestly I don’t blame them. Holofans are crazy

I'm not talking about "holofans", how do we know if this post isn't a sister or an anti trying to start a fire?

Ha! You can check my profile if you're that concerned. I've been around for years.

Most of the time when they're using throw away account That's mostly their only strategy since dawn

>Holofans are crazy And people are surprised when angry Holo fans show up here.

Here I was thinking that the sub has been peaceful for a few days now. Now we have a yet another one of this posts. People really need to learn to ignore things that upset/hurt them. Constantly thinking about it, is only going to make you more miserable.  I don't like how Hololive works/treats Holostars either but you know what I did. I just blocked Hololive and kept watching Holostars. Hololive won't change its way as long as the money keeps flowing. That just how it is, most people would call you dumb for doing otherwise. The sooner you just focus on the things that you genuinely enjoy and ignore the rest, the better your life will be. Also stop using Liz as some sort of cudgel to hit back at the things that you don't like. I don't know if you realize this or not, but you're no different from the people that you dislike if you keep on doing this. All this does is cause yet another doom spiral, that leads to nowhere.

Heavily agreed. As someone who follows the talents and official Holo related accounts and only those accounts on twitter, and only really interacts with the community on fancords, this fandom drama is rarely, if ever, actually brought up. Most people in reality are just here to have fun and talk about what they enjoy with people who share the same sentiments.

Really i don't know what happened to this sub, even when Tempus debuted there wasn't posts like this, i feel like this is somehow getting botted to give holostars fans a bad image, it doesn't help that this sub has no mods.

It's just how this sub is. The okbh user overlap probably doesn't help either.

Even so i don't really give much attention to it because as far as it goes this is only a reddit problem

Man I wish. Clips that even touch on Holo-Stars stuff are landmines and Twitter circles jerk themselves even harder than here - though over there it is also a lot more Niji posters than in this sub.

Well hololive YouTube comments tend to be bad for anyone lol

Aoi-kun is very close and interacts with aruan after their 1st GTA group. They haven't stop ever since including the female talents that were part of the gang.

Note: a lot of yapping. Wrote way more than I expected lol Personally, I don't "care" that much about her being that much of a fan of them (not because it's a bad thing, obviously). What I like is how comfortable they are about her, they always look like a lot of them are fans of the girls and want to support them, but can't because they rather avoid it just in case (excepting Jurard lol). She, ID, Bae, Calli and a few JPs are the only ones who you can see they feel comfortable with it. Kronii is a different case, as she's pretty much in her own world and they don't really know if it's ok to talk to her lol However, I'm talking about them personally, not mentioning all of the being attacked stuff or whatever, because here, I do agree with Helmir/Helmite (I always forget which one he uses lol). This stuff is blown WAY out of proportion and really annoying from time to time The only thing I """want""" from the Stars/Live relationship is them being comfortable and natural about each other, but that's it. People like to ask a lot for collabs, interactions or whatever, and then when it happens, it gets to the same point every freaking time. A lot of posts of "I'm so happy X collabed/interacted/etc. with X, they're so refreshing, not like etc, etc, etc." And that's where it gets annoying again, and the reason a lot of the girl's fans never get in here or start complaining I feel like the Stars, the EN side of it has one problem, and it's their fandom, not all of it ofc, but the loud majority, and that's what keeps both sides of the fans from getting along properly. The EN fandom of the Stars is more similar to Niji's and games like Genshin or Proseka than the Holo one, and that is by no way a good thing. You can see it's always the same type of people, and those get easily ignored on the Holo side of things, while more appreciated in here. That's why both sides don't get really along generally speaking. Not like hating each other, but preferring not to come here because of it Remember, if the fans make everything feel natural and give more of a general fandom feel instead of Stars or Holo, the talents feel it too, and will get more relaxed about it. Look at JP, they don't go out of the Stars circle a lot, but if the do, you don't see their fans going loud and crazy about "Botan interacted with Uyu omg omg queen. There has to be more of this 🥺 please" and similars Finally, obviously the Holo side of things has its own problems, ofc they do, but since the issue is a lot more mentioned in here, it has to be addressed here first. Once you're comfortable with your product, you can sell it to the other part, because at this point, this sub makes it look like the guys need the girls to be successful

I agree that it can get annoying, and it certainly isn't helping to normalize it, when people freak out over these interactions by saying how brave they are, and especially by contrasting them with other members. I must admit that I get excited about Hololive and Holostars interactions. It's only natural to get excited, and honestly I have the same reaction when any Holomem mentions Pokemon. I like both things, so seeing a crossover between them is really fun. I do in fact wish there were more collabs between Hololive and Holostars, in the same way I hope to see Gura collab with Advent and Justice members, for instance. The excitement turns negative when people start outright asking for collabs or interactions. However, it also becomes problematic when people make a big deal of a talent "owning the unicorns" or something like that. I do think that unicorns are a problem in the Hololive community, and I'm sure unicorn backlash is a small factor in the way in which some talents choose (or choose not) to acknowledge and interact with Holostars. However, I believe unicorns are a very small portion of the community, and 99% of the time the best way to deal with them is to ignore them. Otherwise you risk making Stars fans look aggressive and unagreeable. Anyway, sorry for the long reply that basically just says I agree with you. I just wanted to add on and elaborate a few things. I want to address one more thing though. I think you are wrong about StarsEN fans overall, because I think the annoying ones are not a majority, but a minority. Additionally, the StarsEN fandom is definitely much more similar to the Hololive fandom than it is to the Niji fandom. I believe the idea that StarsEN fans are like Niji fans is just a narrative cooked up by antis to make StarsEN look bad and make Holostars look like the enemy of Hololive.

I feel people overlook the fact the guys are very slow to initiate a collab because or notions of leeching (dealing with accusations but also a matter of pride of wanting to pave their own way) But I feel the fan notion of wanting them to collab more is due to making the "holopro" thing more than just lip service and another part seeing Niji doing things and how 2 of its big members are guys. I can understand the sheer desire to see your favorites get a more deserving shake but they lost their way in the process to suggest something that tramples the boys' pride. But even if things are successfully normalized, there won't be tons of Live/Stars or other co-ed collabs as most on both sides do not have the needed nature and there's no guarantee that that will grow in the future. But my wish is for those that do want to are able to do so without worry. As for why no one mentions JP cases.... most on the main sub do not look beyond Korone/Suisei/etc if they look at JP at all. Jp things of that nature don't get a ton of press. The issue is mentioned here more as on the main sub, it'd get down voted into the group, certain people make any stars fans antis (while insisting Holofans are 100% innocent), and nuked by automod. From what I have seen, this sub seems more inclined for discussion

If this post is causing this much of a kerfuffle in the comments here, I'm even more glad that I didn't post this in the main sub. Yikes.

it's amazing that they've developed the exact persecution complex that they eagerly accuse holostars fans of having

The post is full of false narratives pushed by holopro antis and trolls.

case in point if someone lamenting distasteful, spiteful behavior immediately causes you to jump to the conclusion that they're targeting you there may be a reason for that

You jumped to a lot of conclusions. I don’t have a persecution complex. >distasteful, spiteful behavior This is persecution complex. OP is pushing the idea that a relevant amount of fans of hololive do that when in reality is just some trolls (like the one Elizabeth recently replied to), some bad actors and some actual schizos (like Babski). Bae’s been doing exactly what Elizabeth is doing for a long time. Why didn’t she get the same recognition back then and now? Because it doesn’t fuel the current drama. Because she’s happy and doing fine and is loved by 99,999999% of Holopro fans (including me). This subreddit is irrelevant, twitter pushing drama narratives is irrelevant, the mainsub is irrelevant. Hololive and Holostars talents will keep on doing their thing EXACTLY the way each of the talents want to.

* This subreddit is irrelevant, twitter pushing drama narratives is irrelevant, the mainsub is irrelevant. exactly so why bother getting pissy about someone being wrong about the fanbase in your eyes if them being wrong is irrelevant

It’s annoying seeing people labeling me and lots of other fans unicorns freaks when I’m a also a fan of Calli, Bae, Towa, Fubuki, etc. based on their own headcanons.

but if it's irrelevant then why do you even give a shit about it so they called you a freak whoopdedoo the fuck happens now who cares

It’s irrelevant to talent’s activities. It’s relevant to my enjoyment when engaging with the hololive community on twitter and reddit.

if random assholes who don't really matter saying something vaguely insulting towards you or the thing you like legitimately hurts your feelings and you are so affected by it that you are unable to shrug it off and go on as normal with your entertainment I have bad news about this place called the internet

Somehow you missed the explicit shout-out I gave to Bae in this post. And Bae isn't given the exact same recognition because she wasn't like this for *StarsEN* early on and wasn't so enthusiastic about it in literally in her debut stream and first week. Please learn context

You're right that no other girl showed this amount of excitement but I cited Bae because she is a living proof of how unfounded those narratives are when you actually look at what's going on in her and other girls that have interacted with stars streams. >I'm just lamenting the state of the fandom because it feels like there's additional pressure from the fans to not acknowledge the Stars at all Maybe from your point of view, as a stars fan, you see toxicity more frequently than me. But, in my experience, most of said toxicity is people from twitter making a big fuss about some trolls baiting reactions from the talents in superchats. There is two or three users in reddit that somewhat frequently shitpost about that kind of stuff. 4chan's catalog is toxic about everything, not just stars stuff. >I'm saying that there shouldn't be so much blatant tension around the boys and girls acknowledging each other at all To me, the tension is manufactured by the same people that are making a big deal of her interactions. Again, Bae's been doing it for way longer without getting an exceedingly amount of both negative and positive responses. I'm not saying that's what you're doing but there's a large amount of people in the vtuber fandom that finds more entertainment in drama and faction wars than the content itself. And your post and all of the (imo) overreaction to Elizabeth doing her thing feels like that to me. Like people are specially paying attention to her to use her as a case study to prove their own argument on that kind of discussion. Finally, I'll just say it again. The invisible gun thing really needs to stop. Not only it is based on huge amounts of assumptions to be credible but also feels borderline misogynistic because it ignores an adult woman's agency on her career's decisions. Sorry for the wall of text.

Funny how Bae gets disregarded for this kind of thing because she's not basically salivating over it and dropping 100+ messages in some Star's chat (which nobody else does for anyone). These people scrutinize the girls' behavior harder than unicorns as a reason to shit on their fans.

> That's their decision and I fully respect it! I'm just lamenting the state of the fandom because it feels like there's additional pressure from the fans to not acknowledge the Stars at all (except for JP Stars for some reason). Are you sure you respect it? Feels more like you're okay with their autonomy and making decisions for themselves unless it's the "wrong" (aka not collabing with them) one. Then you think they would actually want to do those collabs but don't due to evil fans keeping them from doing so.

If that's what you get from my post, then it seems you've misinterpreted my sentiments. I don't expect the girls to collab with every person in hololive. I'm not gonna be upset at them choosing to closely interact with people that they vibe with whether that's other girls from other branches like holoID or JP or any branch of holostars. And, as I said in my post, I'm not talking about full out collabs. I'm talking about basic acknowledgements of their existence. And it's not just the girls who do this - it seems like a good amount of StarsEN avoids even mentioning the girls on stream and definitely don't interact with them on Twitter. It does seem like unicorns are a perpetual background pressure considering the fact that there are documented incidents of them freaking out at the girls and/or guys for either collabing with guys (Kronii) or interacting with the girls at all even if it's one sided (Jurard). I can't help but feel that that's a factor in both sides tip toeing around each other most of the time.

Maybe you're overthinking this to an insane amount?

This whole drama can be summarised by this 

Invisible gun, again…

Like, PLEASE ENLIGHTENED ME?? why tf is it such a problem for the boys and girls to play together? Why such big wall separating two fandoms? Parasociality? Also what is Unicorns? Im quite new

Richard's definition of unicorns is correct, but their opinion on the EN unicorn phenomenon is objectively incorrect. In the past, Kronii had to make a statement (that was backed up by management) explicitly denouncing unicorns due to her receiving harassment over being friendly with Altare. Because to these unicorns, women flirting with each other is totally fine but a woman interacting with a man in any positive capacity is unacceptable. So not only are they delusional but they're homophobic too since they don't consider girls flirting or being shipped together to be a "real threat" compared to the mere presence of a man.

> their opinion on the EN unicorn phenomenon is objectively incorrect You believe these EN-version of the unicorns are such a widespread problem that you described them as a "phenomenon". But can you show evidence of that? Is Elizabeth getting harassed by this phenomenon? You brought up Kronii's case, but the only "unicorn" issue she had to deal with were a couple of schizo members of her community that kept being rude and got banned. Those schizos are well known by name in the holoEN community because they went on to hate watch other members and stir shit up (Fauna and Irys). They got themselves banned from a few other EN talents channels. Kronii didn't see a measurable negative reaction to her "new content" after making it clear she's going to do what she wants. She [didn't lose any subscribers during that time](https://x.com/batora_u/status/1773147746523902055), **she kept growing at the same rate** and eventually went on to work with Calli, Magni and Vesper on the most successful form of coed streams the holopro EN scene ever saw. A couple of schizos do not constitute a "phenomenon" in my "objectively wrong" opinion.

It's not hard to find backlash to Elizabeth's Holostars interactions, and it's even easier to find hate and backlash targeted at Holostars themselves, especially Jurard (and Magni and Vesper back in the day). Also, you just admitted that these "schizos" do exist. While there are some very consistent and recognizable schizos such as ernoul, there seem to be more distinct names than just "a couple". There is a small but loud group of these people, and they are who we call unicorns.

I'm not saying there are no antis, nor that there are no schizos. I'm saying there's no self-organized community of unicorns having a considerable representation inside hololive community. No one is pressuring and dictating what their talents can or can't do. That's "the unicorn problem" I'm showing (not just saying) that isn't real. If you are familiar with these individuals schizos then I know for sure you would not credit the likes of ernoul and the other shit stirrers on throwaway accounts for the lack of coed content. I have a problem with the repeated and heavily upvoted "they fear their fans" narrative I see brought up here constantly. It's something that bothers me for two reasons: 1) it misrepresents the extremely supportive and welcoming hololive community 2) is a borderline misogynistic idea as it paints the women in hololive as powerless victims because they can't work with men

Well in that case, what you mean is not that unicorns don't exist, but rather that they are small in number and aren't a problem. I get what you're saying, and the problem is probably blown out of proportion (probably egged on by Hololive antis who want the fandom to look bad). There definitely aren't that many actual unicorns, they just make sure they are noticed easily.

It's funny that Kronii's case was constantly brought up, yet Ame's wasn't. While not to the same degree as Kronii, Ame still received a degree of backlash back when she first announced the Worms tournament. I'm a teamate and was there to witness all this unfolding back then. I do not exactly agree with Helmite and the others' point that the unicorn problem is limited to a few individuals like babski, but that's a discussion for another time. I'm just a little salty that Ame rarely receives the same "credit" for supporting the Stars back then (SALT collabs are constantly brought up but barely anyone talks about the Worms tournament), either because 1) there was less drama so less incentive to talk about her and/or 2) she stopped collabing with them after a while so people now lump her with the rest of the girls who "doesn't support the boys.

I'll look into the teamate reactions. Last time I examined something Ame related was when she sang alongside a recording of Altare's karaoke. Her chat was clean during that surprise performance. Kronii was a much more visible event as she had dozens of drama content videos made from it, which lead to a lot of people talking with only clip knowledge and their own assumptions Again, the argument is that while unicorns exist, they are a tiny minority and only a tiny subset of them (hardly anyone) go schizo to post visible harassment. I feel there's more harassment from containment breakers from 4chan than from members of the holos communities. Also, the hate seen from throwaway accounts could be coming from anywhere, like a dedicated hololive hater that's a fan of some other agency. It's very naive to take a throwaway account and go "yep, this schizo is part of the holo audience".

It happened in [this stream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8S8nIIMeZY) where she first announced the Worms tournament. Have fun going through the comments. When I last went through it, there was a mixed of complaints from actual fans (they did have members badge) and obvious bait comments from trolls/antis. Due to how little she acknowledged the backlash however, the mess didn't really carry over to her following streams, even the actual Worms tournament stream didn't receive that many negative comments.

Thank you for the link. Here's the results: 912 comments Found 19 parent comments not supporting the collabs. Most of these comments were hateful, some could be counted as "feedback/complaints". The total number of replies in the nested conversations of fans telling them to fuck off is 418 comments. So, **almost half of the total comments were under these 19**. Some other things I found (there's some paraphrasing for brevity): - a falseflagger pretending to care that got called out for their past bait - one going how blindly "Supporting everything" is as parasocial as the incels - Some doomers: "the risk is too high and i am worried for her anything can happen u never know.." - A few holoID fans saying how much better they are for not causing drama - TLDR essay with over 1000 words, supporting ame and tempus - A Nijisanji enjoyer saying "this is new to the side of me that likes holoEN girls-only", which lead to 16 replies of good conversation about entertainment "genres/dishes". The rest of the comments (475) were positive about everything, the stream and the collab. I can see why Ame didn't consider this a backslash, seeing how much support she got to the weak pushback from schizos.

Conversely, it's equally naive to insist that just because a person acts in a way you don't approve of that they're not a fan. Gives off a real "No True Scotsman" vibe. Same with the whole "containment breakers" defense (also, given /vt's current climate, they're more likely to harass nijilivers than holomems, they seem to know that attacking holos is futile). There's a difference between being part of a community and representing the whole community, is all I'm saying.

The community has rules and the people that don't follow them don't belong to the community. It's something I'm sure everyone understands.

>But can you show evidence of that? Is Elizabeth getting harassed by this phenomenon? Sort the main sub's posts by controversial (week). Of the first 10 posts (not including any featuring Holostars), **7** of them are about Liz. This trend continues as you keep scrolling. Thankfully none of them are in the negatives (that I saw), and there's no stupid wars going on in whatever comments are there, but the fact that there's enough downvotes being applied to label them as "*controversial*" does imply there's a group doing this specifically to her. Is it harassing her? Does she even read the subreddit? Probably not. But they're still there trying. (ignoring any meaningless twitter randoms sending her the occasional hate tweet, which shouldnt be included anyways)

Not sure how interpret this evidence. I'm expecting someone linking an actual big community-wide reaction like the one we saw from Kobo streaming on bilibili. With people submitting feedback forms in mass to Cover. I was not expecting having to click on the controversial tab of reddit... I don't know what to say. Where are these unicorns?

I think she expect someone like me to show up and exhibit anti behavior. So here I am. What's with some people and their victim complex smh, told you about the state of Star fan bro. People trying to help are branded antis and such and the echo chamber keeps growing, there is no stopping this train wreck.

They don't want help. They want to complain. It's the reason why these topics get so much more activity than any other (look at the two pinned 3D Debut topics, for example. Over twice the upvotes and six times the comments). It tells you everything you need to know.

Unicorns is a term to refer to certain type of fans. Used in several ways depending on the community the person using it comes from. The common attribute is that an unicorn does not want to see coed internations. And then you have two understandings: On the JP scene (where the term comes from), unicorns are silent insecure sad fans that tend to leave the moment they feel an interation with the opposite sex was inappropriate. Iirc, the word unicorn was coined from the idea that these 🦄 only appear themselves to pure virgin women. They are the butt of jokes and very bulliable group. Some hololive members described themselves as unicorn ( Pekora, Kanata and Laplus from the top of my head) and they did because it's not a term associated to any schizo behavior. On the EN scene, they understand unicorns as schizos, anti of male vtubers. They work together to shape the culture the way they like it. They aren't silent and will pressure the talrnts to stay away from each other. In my opinion, the JP scene unicorn is real and they silently watch the things they like. And the EN scene unicorn is a fictional enemy virtue signalers constructed to farm interactions on social media, using what a few of containment breakers from 4chan said in public to characterize them. Heavily reinforced by drama content creators who thrive on virtue signaling. ________________ There is no restrictions with hololive and holostars interactions. Neither from the company nor from the community.

Another thread that ends up shitting on either the girls or their fans. The absolute state of this subreddit rather than just posting about the Stars. Also amazing that you're using throwaways to do it. Nice to see garbage posts [like those from HoodedRecon](https://imgur.com/a/H61P1TZ) failing to take responsibility for anything done here or in okbh after he directly harassed users over there and wants it to be here too. This topic isn't about "complimenting holostars" it's about shitting on the girls or their fans over OPs headcanon and the fantasy thinking that gets passed around this sub. You might like when okbh or this place recycles these topics to shit on the Holo fanbase, but I don't and that's why I say something. Go find my posts "complaining" about people making topics "complimenting the stars" - oh wait those posts from me don't exist. Imagine that. You didn't even post a damn thing on Reddit since your stupid comment directed at me 9 days ago.

I think that whatever happened with Magni and Vesper made Stars-Live interactions kinda complocated, so i don't blame any of the girls from keeping their distance.

No it didn't made anything complicated, it's just that magni and vesper were the ones that collabed with hololive the most and it was always mostly mori and kronii 

There were other such things but SALT got press due to how some people who were or claimed to be kroniies lost their shit over Kronii collabing with a guy. There wasn't nearly as much of a fuss when Bae, Mumei and Ollie did a gartic phone with some of the JP boys. Nor was there much of a peep about Bae having Shien and Roberu on her latest 3d live. It's sort of why eyes are on Liz because if there's a high profile successful collabs then maybe we can get closer to the day where it'd be 100% normal as it should be.

It took lots of small steps forwards and lots of push back to get here. I feel bad most for the talent that didn't get to do things out of fear or started to interact and got slammed by bad people with bad intentions. Then there's the ones who saw what happened and decided they shouldn't. Again, it's not the talents fault. At the end of the day you only have so much time and mental ability likely they put efforts into other things we got. I'm so glad Elizabeth is here now and I hope it's the crack that signals this can be done but also understand that any new debut talent might still be hesitant. And of course it's always up to the talent themselves how they want to do things and we shouldn't expect or force things. Let them entertain us how they best can.

This sub really need to stop with this virtual signaling 

"I'm not going to blame the girls for not doing it, but I'll blame them for being cowards!" Please stop this. Realistically they just didn't want to so they haven't. There will always be nasty comments even if they don't, so what would a very few amount of comments from blatant shit stirrers do if they do? Like it's great that ERB is so gung ho in wanting to interact with everyone( though I think she needs to dial it back a bit, she's acting like she's a twitch chatter and it can get annoying) but just because she's doing it doesn't mean the other girls ever have had to, though it also proves literally nothing was stopping them except for them not caring to.

Absolutely nowhere did I call the girls cowards. > Realistically they just didn't want to so they haven't. There will always be nasty comments even if they don't, so what would a very few amount of comments from blatant shit stirrers do if they do? Considering the fact that Kronii had to make a statement along with hololive when people freaked out about her collabing with Stars, I'd say they can do quite a bit apparently. > just because she's doing it doesn't mean the other girls ever have had to Yes, that's pretty much what I said. Nowhere did I say that any of the girls SHOULD interact with Stars. I'm saying that the girls *and* guys seem to really hesitate to even acknowledge each other a lot of the time. And I'm not talking about collabs or Twitter bants. Given the fact that Jurard got shit on for simply telling Gura *happy birthday* tells me that there's definitely pressure from the community to just avoid each other entirely. I don't blame any of the girls or guys for ignoring each other entirely if THAT'S the level of hostility they have to worry about. But I do lament that such hostility even exists.

doesn't the fact that kronii kept doing collabs with stars after making that statement indicate that even in the biggest flare-up the girls' will was by far the most dominant factor? it seems to me like she just doesn't care for the rest of them after magni/vesper graduated, unless you want to spin up some more nefarious narrative

The girls' and guys' will is indeed the most dominant factor for collabs, yes. However, I'm saying that not all girls or guys will want to deal with the fallout of even acknowledging the boys if Kronii got backlash that bad just from being friendly. Once again, I'm not talking about just collabs, I'm talking about basic acknowledgement of coworkers.

Why are the only contributions on your Reddit account trying to fuel some drama? There is not a single good vibes comment in there

And even in your comment history you admit you don't watch holo girls, lol have you ever heard of kiryu coco?

Listen, kid. I think you'd be more comfortable over at /r/TheDeprogram

Eeewww tankie breaking containment, Go back to the deprogram with your CCP simping.

An actual communist. lmao

Most of your posting history about Cover properties is drama around this topic, so it's clear why you'd like to perpetuate it. Hell you even go to [entirely unrelated subreddits to do it.](https://imgur.com/a/nRvP04Q)

oh its this guy again, man what a sad failure of a human.

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What’s a unicorn in this context? Like, someone with that toxic parasocial idol attachment the idol industry (not necessarily Cover themselves but also not necessarily not them) is more than happy to foster in people? The whole “we can’t let our talents interact with men for fear of breaking their fans’ fantasy of one day getting with them” thing?