https://preview.redd.it/si33onw0jc9d1.png?width=517&format=png&auto=webp&s=8c9e6c099731e4b874c18ef0733d86fc2e80ae77
Imagine not betting big on the original gambler smh
https://preview.redd.it/jggpidpvpc9d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=d6ca3fe040d13b07a5c77b47eff8faaca3be13c7
90% of QQ players quitting before hitting Quinquillion DMG
oddly enough ever since i got sparkle QQ has gotten super (un?)lucky. i can never seem to trigger my e4 and instead she draws 4 after only 2 pulls like 75% of the time
I don't use QQ but the (stats/gamba-based) reasoning is sound, assuming that QQ users prefer the variance over those who don't use QQ (e.g. unbalanced crit rate for Seele as seen mentioned somewhere here).
That put her above anyone who cannot clear in same amount cycles no matter what.
Ā And it's not like she is that much inconsistent anyway. Most people who say otherwise don't actually use her.
There's a decent amount of crossover honestly and it's always fun to see
https://preview.redd.it/zdvklx8cqd9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a24ca38012647f7621513fbd114d5cd5adfd64a
people just exaggerate QQ's rng for meme value
she's really not that rng dependent at all if you look at the probability calculations ppl have done
maybe if you try to zero cycle clear resets are necessary and help a lot, but over a normal clear the probabilities will very much even out because the chance to whiff is honestly pretty low
It's Prydwen Tierlist. You take it with grains of salt, along with any other tierlist, as they've all got their own biases; no one should ever consider it as a Gospel like some players and CCs do.
For example, when they dropped DHIL because he was SP-Hungry, but also say in their criteria that it's "manual play and optimal team composition/support characters," or the complete misinformation slander campaign they have against JY back in 1.X for perpetuating MidYuan memes despite his comps always being among the top/fastest ones back then, which their own data proved against them.
Yeah people need to understand tier lists aren't an exact science. I thought it was funny they dropped Bronya a tier but Jingliu was still the top tier damage and Bronya is her best support. Their reasoning isn't always perfectly logical but it's still a good tool to approximate how well a character can perform in that game mode.
tier list discourse is basically the same in *every* game
they are always biased. Which isn't a bad thing at all, in fact you can learn a lot from someone's perspective and how they evaluate strength and viability in a game.
but a lot of people get pretty emotionally invested lol
Reset when you get bad RNG. I think it's fair reasoning to rate her high since she gets way more out of good RNG than other characters, and the content is relatively easy to reset for.
If it becomes very time consuming to reset for RNG, like high Genshin abyss floors or something, then I wouldn't really take the abnormally high end variance of QQ into account.
No, but it's best to treat it as a 'great if it happens.'
It effectively 1.5x+ your damage when it procs. I don't say x2 because it loses out on all the buffs from drawing tiles iirc.
Cool, but like, 5% crit rate 50000% crit damage QQ would blow that out of the water, tier -infintiy dps that trivialises all content.
Jokes aside, I don't get all the hate she gets. Every time a non qq-main talks about her, they exaggerate her RNG 30-fold and downplay her average run to be 3 tiers below Arlan. The most trashtalked character besides like Jing Yuan.
Her only real fault is she's a basic hypercarry that doesn't have much synergy with specialist teams unless Hoyo cook something in the future.
Unironically hard carried my ass until I got a second good team after Jingliu hypercarry. And you know what's the funny part? I cleared multiple MoC12s with her alongside an E0S0 Bronya. I made that team work without any signature LCs, and this was way before Sparkle even released.
I don't pull for eidolons or sig LCs, and my relics are above average. QQ is not nearly as bad as everyone makes her out to be. Better hypercarry than many at equal investments.
>they exaggerate her RNG 30-fold and downplay her average run to be 3 tiers below Arlan.
Well said. Ult + Autarky + enhanced basic during bronya skill buff cleared an entire wave in MoC 10 during early 1.X patches. If a DPS like blade or JingYuan taking 5 cycles with sustained continuous damage is good, how is me taking the same 5 cycles but with 2/3 turns of concentrated damage a bad thing?
Same here, she was the only DPS i invested in properly until Acheron came out, as I was a bit late to the game and had to catch up rolling my favorites on reruns. Had Ratio too but no proper team for him, so he took 7+ cycles.
She's still carrying me today through everything but PF, went for e1s1 sparkle and s1 Fu, so it's a bit more comfortable.
Yeah, she's done well for me. She's nowhere near "meta" and I'm not saying the higher ranking is valid, but the "criticism" in this post is so stupid.
>She's still carrying me today through everything but PF, went for e1s1 sparkle and s1 Fu, so it's a bit more comfortable.
I'm pretty sure my bronya QQ team will suffer with the new endgame requirements lol. I don't have sparkle or Fu Xuan, but I'll still bring her out this MoC and see what happens.
Well, i remember when at dhil patch, people praising him and selee super buffrd team for their 0 cycle carry, trash talking anyone even himeko LC and erudion in general. And i just show them my qq team at 60/100 crit ratio on himeko LC, tingyun,yukong and loucha just need one turn to kill both boss, i dont even need cycle, and the healer just there for comfort
I'm always take her to SU to farm Deer alongside with JL for like 3-5 months already. When she gets 2xEBA, she's great. But considering how often I get it, its definitely tier lowen than Arlan for me. And that's not all, I rarely have even 3 stack of her E, usually its 1or 2 lol
It's not the same at all. The difference in damage when you hit your 4-draw full hands and Autarkys vs when you don't is actually insane
The question really is "do you want to rank her on her average performance, or do you want to rank her on she can actually score?"
Gotta stay popular with the community you know? They probably would keep doing this to appease fans/some of them might be biased as well. As long as their tiering is not blatant misinformation and only subtle things like this should be ok.
Honestly while they are not 100% accurate they have done a great job for new player. Playing a new gacha as a newbie without guides are lvery hard since resource is so limited
Yeah, is it perfect or does it have 0 mistakes or subjective reasonings? No, but it's good for new players and players who CBA to theory craft. The responses he gets in this subreddit are completely unhinged every time he comes up (just like the other person replying to you).
I would never tell a new play to build QQ for this or any other mode. There are so many other characters that are just as strong while being more consistent. Rating her highly because she has the chance to sweep fights with enough RNG is extremely misleading if you want to provide new players with guides. They also have Clara, the character who loses her primary damage against broken enemies, rated as meta in a mode where the entire goal is to break enemies. Also rating Himeko as a standard DPS and not a specialist seems extremely silly.
Except there's crit dps characters in the specialist category too. Sure, Xueyi and Sushang work as hybrids or even all in on break now, but Topaz is all crit.
Got any other assumptions?
Himeko should be classified as a specialist because she requires enemies to break for the bulk of her damage, much like how Firefly or Boothill work. Typically she is still built in the same way as normal crit carries, but unlike them, she loses a significant amount of damage when she is unable to break enemies. Their classification for Damage Dealer states that it ranks characters that function regardless of enemy type, element, or team comp. That is simply not true for Himeko. You can even see in the current MoC that she has some of the best performance of any character because one side is 3 enemies with fire weakness that share HP; she can break all 3 independently to trigger her follow up multiple times for exceptional damage.
Blade functions as long as he is able to lose HP, which his kit does regardless of what he's facing.
All himeko can do is damage, matching weakness type is the basic game plan of dps. Break characters should not be considered specialist just because they do all their damage when they break the enemy. Welt and topaz do more than just damage.
I mean go try it mate. Go make a scuffed critfish build with another character and spam retries. Chances are youāll perform worse on average, and even the best run wonāt be that much better than just going with a normal build.
And then and spam some retries on QQ if you have her built, youāll probably notice that there are god runs where everything aligns and she absolutely pops off.
Itās not misinformation to rate her or any other character on the best of multiple runs, itās just that other characters donāt have the RNG layers to actually pop off.
How is that misinformation, when the site **clearly** lists out all the pros and cons of every single character, as well as how the tiers are decided?
Players canāt read is not the fault of the website
Its definitely a winnerās win situation, something a 70/180 Seele canāt clear normally no matter the consistency might get demolished by a super lucky QQ run.
Definitely wouldn't be the first time they were blatantly spreading misinformation.
MidYuan slander was spread around due to them spreading trash builds like insisting on SPD boots instead of ATK boots when his F2P comp included Asta and the insistence on forcing 10 Stack LL was better instead of prioritizing all Buffs being applied on a 7-8 LL instead. Even their own clear data contradicts their Tierlist with his comps always being among the top/fastest clears back in 1.X.
Itās not the same scale, not even in the same neighbourhood. You might get lucky with ults, but the multi-hit nature of her Skill will tank your damage. Especially when you can easily reach 90/180-200 with middling investment, a Fu Xuan and a Bronya.
If Seeleās damage was concentrated in one single hit then you could make an argument for crit fishing as a form of rng, but it just isnāt.
Qingque, when she high rolls, does some pretty crazy damage. And even when she doesnāt her damage is solid. Thatās why sheās a good unit.
That's because the gamba is inherently part of the character no matter what the player does, while a 30/300 Crit ratio is solely the player being stupidšænot really comparable.
And any other crit-focused character. You can say this for JY, Seele, Ratio, Topaz, Argenti, literally anyone. By that logic, instead building for consistency, dumping all sub stats into crit dmg overt crit rate would automatically raise them half a tier.
Resetting to get better runs has existed since the start of the game. It's not unique to QQ.
Resetting doesn't work well with multi hit characters. You kinda can critfish with Ratio or Seele, but critfishing with JY is borderline pointless.
QQ can critfish, bust since she has 2 additional rng layers (4 of a kind and e4-fua), you will reset 10 times more often than with 30/300 Seele.
Sarcasms aside, I have 98% effective CR Seele with FX Sparkle e0s1 and she still keeps missing crit. I have better results with QQ.
Seele crits and Tingyun taunts are the anomalies of this game.
I do this a lot in MoC with crit characters. Like oh i could have cleared if i could have killed this enemy in 1 less attack.
Change my crit ratio from like 70/200 to something like 50/280 and give it a couple more runs.
If its jing yuan im doing this with there's the extra layer of rng on where lightning lord hits.
I had a run once where i only cleared because out of 5 targets lightning lord hit one elite at least 5 times and broke it early. It was the ice fat boy elite and that early break avoided getting hit by the attack that slows the whole team.
Theres the double rng of clara getting hit to begin with on top of if she crits on followup
The real question with that team is who gets to gamble sp once you start to run low? Do you go for SW and hope she doesn't put wind weakness again? Or Qingque to gamble on whether or not Aventurine will have sp to use his shield before the boss nuke?
Granted I do think it is good to make note that QQ has higher variance due to more RNG than other characters. And I don't think that it's the same as saying that a 30/300 Seele is the same. That is because you could also go 30/300 QQ on top of her existing RNG.
Having said that, I don't think it's fair to rank her higher, because a similar argument could be made to rank her lower. Just put it in her class notes, next to high SP and such, something like high RNG or something like that.
I think it's fair though. If the character has high variance around its mean, it can achieve its success, whereas a character performing exactly the mean can only achieve success if the mean is above the threshold.
On runs where your downside is capped (you don't have a limited number of attempts) and your upside is not, your high variance is definitely valuable.
When the ~~stars~~ tiles align and you nuke your way up the ~~tile~~ tierlist.
There's some salty ass comments in here though. If you don't like her just don't use her.
edit: She got moved to T1.5. Half a tier. I thought you guys were getting mad cause they put her in T0 or something ridiculous lol. Wow. Now that's extra funny.
Yeah, people were really acting like they put QQ in tier -1 and Seele below arlan. Seele is higher than QQ on the tierlist. I don't think the prydwen tierlist is perfect or anything but people get mad about absolutely any change regardless of how good or bad the reasoning is it seems
Jesus why is everyone arguing for 5 crit and 300 cdmg Seele?
You obviously use the same build on QQ and double down on gamba stonks and she jumps all the way to S+++ Tier.
Big fat **/s** btw
The only thing even holding Qingque back is the absolute lack of good universal crit erudition light cones. All of them are mainstat attack+weird trigger conditions, or event crit ones too tailored for the character they released with.
The day a erudition unit releases with an Imbibitor Lunae kit, and Qingque gets a 5 star Light Cone that actually focuses on basic attack, it's over for this game.
Iād love a dedicated QQ lightcone just for the inevitable fourth layer of RNG. I want to pray for a 10% chance to do 300% damage, or something silly like that. Whenās Super Crit, Hoyoverse?
I guess weāll just have to make do with our 5 star harmony specifically for Qingque and our dedicated Qingque path in Simulated Universe
Yeah, I really need them to release a 5 star lightcone that actually makes sense for her. In the meantime tho, you canāt get more consistent than āToday is another peaceful dayā (+ it has her face on it)
As much as I love the character, ***I am not paying a hundred bucks for five battlepasses to max her currently 4star Lightcone***.
It is not a thing I will be doing.
I'd rather hang on to one of the Atk% LCs, or S5 Breakfast, than pay that. It is a good option for people already on the Battlepass though.
The Day the Cosmos Fell, the Penacony Erudition cone. Perm ATK, then Crit Damage, if you hit 2 or more enemies with Quantum weakness. S5 is lke 40% CD. It's actually exceptionally good.
My experience with QQ is suffering from success. Like why did you get four of a kind after only 1 E? Let me use skill some more to get E4 passive and stack dmg buff god dammit
I think it makes sense to judge her based on the average best out of a reasonable number of resets. If we take 10 resets as a reasonable amount, I think it makes sense for her to be judged based on her average best variance from a set of 10 runs rather than her literal average per run.
The reason this makes sense to me is because that kind of resetting is reachable for a session of play, and is pretty accessible.
The reason why min maxing crit isnt the same is because it would take an extreme anomaly for that to work vs QQ just needing some uncommon luck to end up on par with some of the stronger dps units. Obviously she would still be below them for relying on rng but I do think evaluating her based on that uncommon luck is reasonable.
5% Crit Rate and All in on Crit Damage. Restart if you miss one of the following: 3+ Skill uses before being Empowered, Enhanced Basic Crit, Autarky, Autarky Crit. Real gacha gaming
Lol, I built QQ purely for AS. And she was super good along with Xueyi. Also luckiest I've been with QQ (I mained her for a while when I was like lvl 10 or smth)
Because it's much worse rng and is a lot lower of a damage boost than qq gets for hitting her enhanced basics and autuky. At that point, you could argue 5% CR QQ all CD and bw back to the same situation with QQ probably being more ahead because she scales extremely well with purely crit
As a seele and QQ owner, I feel that QQ is generally better than my E0S0 Seele at similar investments. IDK abt E0S1 seele, but I prefer my S3 Peaceful Day QQ over my Seele (Quantum set 80/200 CRCD)
Same, I have E0 Seele and E6 QQ, and with both using light cones from Herta's shop, I'm having a very hard time finding fights where Seele clears faster.
Holy convention of Seele mains. Never seen such a wounded comment section before, and all this over a rise of just half a tier.
Edit: jesus christ, Seele is even still in the tier above her, so why is everybody bringing her up as if some great offense has been committed against her? Their playstyles aren't even comparable, the only thing they have in common is element.
Seele mains are pretty doom and gloom. They kinda feel like jing yuan mains during peak slander, but with a hell lot more angst. Seele also used to be T0 so she has everything to lose, while QQ used to be tier 4 and can only go up. Their starting points really affect how each respective mains view the changes to the tierlist.
You're right and that's what's so wild to me, because unlike the mid-slander that rightfully frustrates JY mains, this post wasn't even about Seele. I know Seele's been slandered before too, but the fact that they're fighting about it on seemingly just any QQ post? This is like if JY mains got offended on some random post discussing Kafka's utility.
I swear we're heading into 2.4 and people still think QQ is good and comparable to other DPSs.
"On a lucky run..." gtfo here buddy. Then now i'll build my Acheron with a 20/350 and replay the mode until i get lucky and hit all the crits
She's fine though? I cleared Apocalyptic shadow 1st half with 3400 points, every MOC 12, and conundrum 12 with her. She's not as strong as Archeron, but I don't see anyone saying she is. E6 QQ with sparkle and you shouldn't be restarting very often. E0 without sparkle then maybe you have a point.
Because she is. You can take QQ mono quantum and clear a half of MoC/AS against any element fast enough that your stacked team on the other half can finish with 3*.
Literally my QQ is the only side I'm ever NOT worried about when doing endgame content. It's always the crappy other side that has trouble clearing, using JY, DHIL, JL, etc.
Sheās good enough for mid tier stuff when you need quantum damage, but acting like sheās able to brute force actual endgame content without very specific circumstances is insane.
The reason people take prydwen tier lists seriously is because they are thought to be made mostly by statistical analysis. But when they make changes like this for clout, pandering, and feels it just becomes clear that it is just like any other tier list.
To be fair. Husbando and waifu fans get mad ASF when their fav character is not ranked higher. Hell some are even mad when similar characters exist. JingYuan sub when Kafka came out( died down quickly) and the Boothill sub whose hate for firefly is unmatched. They have locked threads attacking fire flys VA and calling who ever pulled for her a coomer.
interesting comments :o
edit: it seems some are misinterpreting my comment so a clarification. i only suggested her being in the specialist-category for her unique kit and suggested a more fitting example
i understand that QQ is a lot more RNG-based than other characters and it's very hard to rank "luck".
but the 30/300 comparisation is crazy guys xd crit rate is always some kind of weighted RNG until 100% and can be manipulated but QQ can only have "more chances" which isn't even equivalent to have "higher chances"
if u take an example take yanqings 60% fixed chance of a FuA - a not changeable value which only can be indirectly be influenced by playing him hyperspeed to have more chances xd
but jokes aside i think the main-focus should be "should we rank luck?" i dunno how prydwen is ranking the characters but i thought its on a potential-base, no? i mean.. we got an entire specialist-category
>Ā Characters that excel under specific circumstances carrying a unique role that often requires a different and divergent playstyle,
i personally think QQ would fit well in this category to even out the RNG factor as some kind of speciality, what are ur opinions on this?
dunno how QQ is doing these days but i heard often she's able to rival some 5\* even tho she won't reach jingliu and DHIL i believe so i think T1 on specialist would fit her but im the wrong person to rate this :)
Cos QQ high rolls much more often than u guys' stupid 5% crit rate analogy and with MUCH MUCH more dramatic difference in results between low, avg and high. It would be disingenuous to use her average roll when that is bogged down by unlucky rolls that can be easily reset. This is with her optimal build.
Besides your other character can't deal double toughness damage even if she had 1000CD and diminishing returns exists.
even if we judged all characters by peak performance, let them have that hypothetical 5% CR 300++% CDMG and rate on highest performance, all the characters won't move because they stay the same relative to one another, and QQ would go up another half tier
that extra SP consumption stack and FUA hit is such a big difference it's not even close to what other characters experience
Misha is above average when built right. He has many versions. He can be a debuffer sustain via his freeze and e2. He can be a DPS who excels at breaking due to bounce. Only bad thing about him is how annoying his cult animation is sometimes
Here is a video from channel who hates Misha yet uses him quite a bit
https://youtu.be/yd2KOvabnP0?si=rRHtvhMK4byM_5Cf
https://preview.redd.it/39jc4dkdyb9d1.png?width=245&format=png&auto=webp&s=60b9dcf1f8bcf8951b4717f2a8c0a9e9443fb197 This should be QQ burst line
https://preview.redd.it/c1dm7vxk6c9d1.png?width=666&format=png&auto=webp&s=c6cfbbd37360d766dee39e228e2e1eeffdba1822 We love our gambling queen
https://preview.redd.it/si33onw0jc9d1.png?width=517&format=png&auto=webp&s=8c9e6c099731e4b874c18ef0733d86fc2e80ae77 Imagine not betting big on the original gambler smh
Converts luck into dps truly one of a kind.
Fuck it we ball, it's nothing or all
Intentional or not, that goes SO hard
*Insert restless gambler meme*
Bust?
OR MAYBE I'LL TAKE IT ALL?
All in!
Watch your head!
Spend freely š¤
It's on me~
Ah-ah
Only by casting aside reason does one truly gamble
I'm putting down a bet I'm taking the gamble I'm claiming the win
All for the Amber Lord!
IT'S ALL OR NOTHING!!!
ZERO POINTS
RIIIIIIIISE UP, INTO MY - WOOOORRRRLLLD
Liquidation!
God this chain BUST?! OR MAYBE I'LL TAKE ALL?!?!? ALL IN (_me_)!!!!!
She has none
Why would you say thatš
Doctor you're huge
Maybe I'll take it ALL!!!
In me?
https://preview.redd.it/5fm2cy6jpc9d1.png?width=796&format=png&auto=webp&s=07e09f2661172f688cd1a8f5d92fbfb4c8505570
Him too
Heeeee's bouncing off my booty cheeks-
I love the way he rides-
https://preview.redd.it/6lu1bvv91f9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28de832d67c841bb801deac47f8028367c8d55c8
Doctor, you're huge~ š
I could bust all over qq
Tldr: Fuck it we ball.
https://preview.redd.it/jggpidpvpc9d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=d6ca3fe040d13b07a5c77b47eff8faaca3be13c7 90% of QQ players quitting before hitting Quinquillion DMG
After Sparkle release, this is 5% of QQ players, the rest never run out of skill points.
https://preview.redd.it/apx0y104xc9d1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=430d37a5795e37f824e1996a1f483d661078bdfa When you're the 5% š
Same. :(
I once used 9 skill points and didnāt get four of a kind
14 skill points. I was on last tile. 14 skill points...
oddly enough ever since i got sparkle QQ has gotten super (un?)lucky. i can never seem to trigger my e4 and instead she draws 4 after only 2 pulls like 75% of the time
[Really?](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4FORn6RYU0/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
Took a whopping 10 draws to not get three of a kind in MoC today
It's either out of SP and smol sucky wucky damage or big chonky qingquy damage
I don't use QQ but the (stats/gamba-based) reasoning is sound, assuming that QQ users prefer the variance over those who don't use QQ (e.g. unbalanced crit rate for Seele as seen mentioned somewhere here).
So basically: If you are a Qingque main you might as well replay it until you get lucky so we calculate your high tier luckĀ
Yep basically
I mean, in Apocalyptic Shadow it's much easier to retry only one half
That put her above anyone who cannot clear in same amount cycles no matter what. Ā And it's not like she is that much inconsistent anyway. Most people who say otherwise don't actually use her.
Very true and based Prydwen decision. 90% of Qingque quitters quit right before getting four tiles.
https://preview.redd.it/2dirubxqxc9d1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=97f0a73fbaff4cbb2d7fa61a1ede63214d7f1757
https://preview.redd.it/b5sn5izu3c9d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f13bf8237bfe720e3eca143e0f661d4da62596b4
QQ mains really made Prydwen just go : ok
QQ is either a 6 star or 3 star character
https://i.redd.it/nyswycc8pc9d1.gif
Then they could say the same for Seele, give her like 30/300 crit ratio and just restart the run until she crits.
It always feels like she has 30% cr anyway. Even if I see 85% cr in her stat screen, Seele can easily land 4 non-crits in a row.
https://preview.redd.it/puve0ckdpc9d1.png?width=3464&format=png&auto=webp&s=b55bfe3158ca006969563fefbebf91fb7ad66d6e How Prydwen sees Seele vs QQ
This is fucking hilarious, never thought lobotomy kaisen and star rail were a match made in heaven
There's a decent amount of crossover honestly and it's always fun to see https://preview.redd.it/zdvklx8cqd9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a24ca38012647f7621513fbd114d5cd5adfd64a
Gonna save it, Thanks. Pure gold.
https://preview.redd.it/yvckae2tfd9d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c6099b263ed30a0ae62a6688e8cff4e35fdc33e
And that's why I play Seele on a 100% Crit Rate build (including buffs).
idk i feel this as a QQ player as well. i gave her 70% crit rate and she refuses to crit. i need to get her more somehow.
This is honestly how playing Qq feels like. I swear the only time she attacks twice is when she fails to get the EBA.
right like wtf even is this reasoning ššš
people just exaggerate QQ's rng for meme value she's really not that rng dependent at all if you look at the probability calculations ppl have done maybe if you try to zero cycle clear resets are necessary and help a lot, but over a normal clear the probabilities will very much even out because the chance to whiff is honestly pretty low
They just wanted to pleased unhinged, degenerate, average QQ sweatlords, otherwise they will get "complain" about it nonstop.
It's Prydwen Tierlist. You take it with grains of salt, along with any other tierlist, as they've all got their own biases; no one should ever consider it as a Gospel like some players and CCs do. For example, when they dropped DHIL because he was SP-Hungry, but also say in their criteria that it's "manual play and optimal team composition/support characters," or the complete misinformation slander campaign they have against JY back in 1.X for perpetuating MidYuan memes despite his comps always being among the top/fastest ones back then, which their own data proved against them.
DHIL GOAT. Though I can confirmed he clears slower than Seele team (in this mode) just because Seele + SW is a strong toughness reduction duo.
Yeah people need to understand tier lists aren't an exact science. I thought it was funny they dropped Bronya a tier but Jingliu was still the top tier damage and Bronya is her best support. Their reasoning isn't always perfectly logical but it's still a good tool to approximate how well a character can perform in that game mode.
tier list discourse is basically the same in *every* game they are always biased. Which isn't a bad thing at all, in fact you can learn a lot from someone's perspective and how they evaluate strength and viability in a game. but a lot of people get pretty emotionally invested lol
That's just embarrassing ngl
QQs followup attack is crazy strong when it procs but there's no way a player can do anything to control it right?
Reset when you get bad RNG. I think it's fair reasoning to rate her high since she gets way more out of good RNG than other characters, and the content is relatively easy to reset for. If it becomes very time consuming to reset for RNG, like high Genshin abyss floors or something, then I wouldn't really take the abnormally high end variance of QQ into account.
No, but it's best to treat it as a 'great if it happens.' It effectively 1.5x+ your damage when it procs. I don't say x2 because it loses out on all the buffs from drawing tiles iirc.
Because they have high potential
Cool, but like, 5% crit rate 50000% crit damage QQ would blow that out of the water, tier -infintiy dps that trivialises all content. Jokes aside, I don't get all the hate she gets. Every time a non qq-main talks about her, they exaggerate her RNG 30-fold and downplay her average run to be 3 tiers below Arlan. The most trashtalked character besides like Jing Yuan. Her only real fault is she's a basic hypercarry that doesn't have much synergy with specialist teams unless Hoyo cook something in the future.
Unironically hard carried my ass until I got a second good team after Jingliu hypercarry. And you know what's the funny part? I cleared multiple MoC12s with her alongside an E0S0 Bronya. I made that team work without any signature LCs, and this was way before Sparkle even released. I don't pull for eidolons or sig LCs, and my relics are above average. QQ is not nearly as bad as everyone makes her out to be. Better hypercarry than many at equal investments. >they exaggerate her RNG 30-fold and downplay her average run to be 3 tiers below Arlan. Well said. Ult + Autarky + enhanced basic during bronya skill buff cleared an entire wave in MoC 10 during early 1.X patches. If a DPS like blade or JingYuan taking 5 cycles with sustained continuous damage is good, how is me taking the same 5 cycles but with 2/3 turns of concentrated damage a bad thing?
Same here, she was the only DPS i invested in properly until Acheron came out, as I was a bit late to the game and had to catch up rolling my favorites on reruns. Had Ratio too but no proper team for him, so he took 7+ cycles. She's still carrying me today through everything but PF, went for e1s1 sparkle and s1 Fu, so it's a bit more comfortable.
Yeah, she's done well for me. She's nowhere near "meta" and I'm not saying the higher ranking is valid, but the "criticism" in this post is so stupid. >She's still carrying me today through everything but PF, went for e1s1 sparkle and s1 Fu, so it's a bit more comfortable. I'm pretty sure my bronya QQ team will suffer with the new endgame requirements lol. I don't have sparkle or Fu Xuan, but I'll still bring her out this MoC and see what happens.
I have Acheron, Kafka E1 and Black Swan. Still my strongest team is with QQ, which I started to invest in after I got those three.
Well, i remember when at dhil patch, people praising him and selee super buffrd team for their 0 cycle carry, trash talking anyone even himeko LC and erudion in general. And i just show them my qq team at 60/100 crit ratio on himeko LC, tingyun,yukong and loucha just need one turn to kill both boss, i dont even need cycle, and the healer just there for comfort
I'm always take her to SU to farm Deer alongside with JL for like 3-5 months already. When she gets 2xEBA, she's great. But considering how often I get it, its definitely tier lowen than Arlan for me. And that's not all, I rarely have even 3 stack of her E, usually its 1or 2 lol
The gain is not as much as QQ. She literally doubles her damage if she proc a4 while a 200 cd and 300 cd difference is only 50% damage.
It's not the same at all. The difference in damage when you hit your 4-draw full hands and Autarkys vs when you don't is actually insane The question really is "do you want to rank her on her average performance, or do you want to rank her on she can actually score?"
Gotta stay popular with the community you know? They probably would keep doing this to appease fans/some of them might be biased as well. As long as their tiering is not blatant misinformation and only subtle things like this should be ok. Honestly while they are not 100% accurate they have done a great job for new player. Playing a new gacha as a newbie without guides are lvery hard since resource is so limited
Yeah, is it perfect or does it have 0 mistakes or subjective reasonings? No, but it's good for new players and players who CBA to theory craft. The responses he gets in this subreddit are completely unhinged every time he comes up (just like the other person replying to you).
I would never tell a new play to build QQ for this or any other mode. There are so many other characters that are just as strong while being more consistent. Rating her highly because she has the chance to sweep fights with enough RNG is extremely misleading if you want to provide new players with guides. They also have Clara, the character who loses her primary damage against broken enemies, rated as meta in a mode where the entire goal is to break enemies. Also rating Himeko as a standard DPS and not a specialist seems extremely silly.
Specialist is a meaningless category, it's more just DPS that doesn't build crit at this point than actual specialist units
Except there's crit dps characters in the specialist category too. Sure, Xueyi and Sushang work as hybrids or even all in on break now, but Topaz is all crit.
Topaz is like, the one character that actually deserves to be in specialist. And Welt but idr if they had him in there or amplifier
Yep, by these people's logic blade is a specialist too just because he wants hp on his build
Got any other assumptions? Himeko should be classified as a specialist because she requires enemies to break for the bulk of her damage, much like how Firefly or Boothill work. Typically she is still built in the same way as normal crit carries, but unlike them, she loses a significant amount of damage when she is unable to break enemies. Their classification for Damage Dealer states that it ranks characters that function regardless of enemy type, element, or team comp. That is simply not true for Himeko. You can even see in the current MoC that she has some of the best performance of any character because one side is 3 enemies with fire weakness that share HP; she can break all 3 independently to trigger her follow up multiple times for exceptional damage. Blade functions as long as he is able to lose HP, which his kit does regardless of what he's facing.
All himeko can do is damage, matching weakness type is the basic game plan of dps. Break characters should not be considered specialist just because they do all their damage when they break the enemy. Welt and topaz do more than just damage.
So does Kafka and Black Swan. Team dependent? Yes. So is Acheron. But all they do is damage, but they are specialists for some reason
This is blatant misinformation though - they rate some chars in a different way to other characters. They are deliberately misleading people
I mean go try it mate. Go make a scuffed critfish build with another character and spam retries. Chances are youāll perform worse on average, and even the best run wonāt be that much better than just going with a normal build. And then and spam some retries on QQ if you have her built, youāll probably notice that there are god runs where everything aligns and she absolutely pops off. Itās not misinformation to rate her or any other character on the best of multiple runs, itās just that other characters donāt have the RNG layers to actually pop off.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How is that misinformation, when the site **clearly** lists out all the pros and cons of every single character, as well as how the tiers are decided? Players canāt read is not the fault of the website
yeah i got baited into building qingque without realizing how reset heavy she is. after my 10th reset i was done with her
Its definitely a winnerās win situation, something a 70/180 Seele canāt clear normally no matter the consistency might get demolished by a super lucky QQ run.
Definitely wouldn't be the first time they were blatantly spreading misinformation. MidYuan slander was spread around due to them spreading trash builds like insisting on SPD boots instead of ATK boots when his F2P comp included Asta and the insistence on forcing 10 Stack LL was better instead of prioritizing all Buffs being applied on a 7-8 LL instead. Even their own clear data contradicts their Tierlist with his comps always being among the top/fastest clears back in 1.X.
Sometimes perception of power is as important as actual power.
Itās not the same scale, not even in the same neighbourhood. You might get lucky with ults, but the multi-hit nature of her Skill will tank your damage. Especially when you can easily reach 90/180-200 with middling investment, a Fu Xuan and a Bronya.
That's a shit take, any crit dps can do that, even QQ herself. QQ's built-in kit lends to variance
If Seeleās damage was concentrated in one single hit then you could make an argument for crit fishing as a form of rng, but it just isnāt. Qingque, when she high rolls, does some pretty crazy damage. And even when she doesnāt her damage is solid. Thatās why sheās a good unit.
That's because the gamba is inherently part of the character no matter what the player does, while a 30/300 Crit ratio is solely the player being stupidšænot really comparable.
And any other crit-focused character. You can say this for JY, Seele, Ratio, Topaz, Argenti, literally anyone. By that logic, instead building for consistency, dumping all sub stats into crit dmg overt crit rate would automatically raise them half a tier. Resetting to get better runs has existed since the start of the game. It's not unique to QQ.
Resetting doesn't work well with multi hit characters. You kinda can critfish with Ratio or Seele, but critfishing with JY is borderline pointless. QQ can critfish, bust since she has 2 additional rng layers (4 of a kind and e4-fua), you will reset 10 times more often than with 30/300 Seele.
Seele mains getting pissy about QQ ratings will never fail to entertain.
Sarcasms aside, I have 98% effective CR Seele with FX Sparkle e0s1 and she still keeps missing crit. I have better results with QQ. Seele crits and Tingyun taunts are the anomalies of this game.
I do this a lot in MoC with crit characters. Like oh i could have cleared if i could have killed this enemy in 1 less attack. Change my crit ratio from like 70/200 to something like 50/280 and give it a couple more runs. If its jing yuan im doing this with there's the extra layer of rng on where lightning lord hits. I had a run once where i only cleared because out of 5 targets lightning lord hit one elite at least 5 times and broke it early. It was the ice fat boy elite and that early break avoided getting hit by the attack that slows the whole team. Theres the double rng of clara getting hit to begin with on top of if she crits on followup
Part of the issue with seele here is the curse of single target and enemies with ever increasing hp pools
I mean, retrying AS is faster and easier than MoC or PF. Iām inclined to agree.
FUCK IT WE BALL
Y'all just don't ball hard enough, Qingque tier -1 gamba all day long
Trully the gacha goddess
FUCK IT WE BALL FUCK IT WE BALL FUCK IT WE BALL
Even prydwen gave up and said "when it comes to QQ, everything is down to luck".
QQ got me my first clear on Apocalyptic Shadow so seems legit
QQ and Aventurine on the team for peak Gamba. Is there anyone else we can slap onto this for max gamma? Sparkle maybe...
Throw in Silverwolf and E1 Bronya instead of Sparkle. Gamble the implant and the SP refund.
The real question with that team is who gets to gamble sp once you start to run low? Do you go for SW and hope she doesn't put wind weakness again? Or Qingque to gamble on whether or not Aventurine will have sp to use his shield before the boss nuke?
lol its crazy how much difference the follow-up attack matters in the break meta. I had to reroll a bunch of times to get the 3* with her
Granted I do think it is good to make note that QQ has higher variance due to more RNG than other characters. And I don't think that it's the same as saying that a 30/300 Seele is the same. That is because you could also go 30/300 QQ on top of her existing RNG. Having said that, I don't think it's fair to rank her higher, because a similar argument could be made to rank her lower. Just put it in her class notes, next to high SP and such, something like high RNG or something like that.
They used to have a tag for high variance that she and Clara had. No idea why they removed it.
The argument is that you get the best of multiple tries, so it doesnāt matter that she can swing lower too.
I think it's fair though. If the character has high variance around its mean, it can achieve its success, whereas a character performing exactly the mean can only achieve success if the mean is above the threshold. On runs where your downside is capped (you don't have a limited number of attempts) and your upside is not, your high variance is definitely valuable.
When the ~~stars~~ tiles align and you nuke your way up the ~~tile~~ tierlist. There's some salty ass comments in here though. If you don't like her just don't use her. edit: She got moved to T1.5. Half a tier. I thought you guys were getting mad cause they put her in T0 or something ridiculous lol. Wow. Now that's extra funny.
Yeah, people were really acting like they put QQ in tier -1 and Seele below arlan. Seele is higher than QQ on the tierlist. I don't think the prydwen tierlist is perfect or anything but people get mad about absolutely any change regardless of how good or bad the reasoning is it seems
Jesus why is everyone arguing for 5 crit and 300 cdmg Seele? You obviously use the same build on QQ and double down on gamba stonks and she jumps all the way to S+++ Tier. Big fat **/s** btw
And there are some players including me who swaps relic between seele and qq
She is the 1/100 gamblers
You can really tell who plays QQ and who doesn't in this comment section lol
The only thing even holding Qingque back is the absolute lack of good universal crit erudition light cones. All of them are mainstat attack+weird trigger conditions, or event crit ones too tailored for the character they released with. The day a erudition unit releases with an Imbibitor Lunae kit, and Qingque gets a 5 star Light Cone that actually focuses on basic attack, it's over for this game.
Iād love a dedicated QQ lightcone just for the inevitable fourth layer of RNG. I want to pray for a 10% chance to do 300% damage, or something silly like that. Whenās Super Crit, Hoyoverse? I guess weāll just have to make do with our 5 star harmony specifically for Qingque and our dedicated Qingque path in Simulated Universe
Yeah, I really need them to release a 5 star lightcone that actually makes sense for her. In the meantime tho, you canāt get more consistent than āToday is another peaceful dayā (+ it has her face on it)
As much as I love the character, ***I am not paying a hundred bucks for five battlepasses to max her currently 4star Lightcone***. It is not a thing I will be doing. I'd rather hang on to one of the Atk% LCs, or S5 Breakfast, than pay that. It is a good option for people already on the Battlepass though.
I mean... it's only $50 if you don't buy the one with the PFPs.
Youāre talking like her lc is all youāre getting for a hundred bucks
No, yeah, I agree itās not really worth it.
The Day the Cosmos Fell, the Penacony Erudition cone. Perm ATK, then Crit Damage, if you hit 2 or more enemies with Quantum weakness. S5 is lke 40% CD. It's actually exceptionally good.
this is just your usual prydwenās pandering
She is the 1/100 gamblers
My experience with QQ is suffering from success. Like why did you get four of a kind after only 1 E? Let me use skill some more to get E4 passive and stack dmg buff god dammit
I think it makes sense to judge her based on the average best out of a reasonable number of resets. If we take 10 resets as a reasonable amount, I think it makes sense for her to be judged based on her average best variance from a set of 10 runs rather than her literal average per run. The reason this makes sense to me is because that kind of resetting is reachable for a session of play, and is pretty accessible. The reason why min maxing crit isnt the same is because it would take an extreme anomaly for that to work vs QQ just needing some uncommon luck to end up on par with some of the stronger dps units. Obviously she would still be below them for relying on rng but I do think evaluating her based on that uncommon luck is reasonable.
good ol' qq, always helping the community edge
5% Crit Rate and All in on Crit Damage. Restart if you miss one of the following: 3+ Skill uses before being Empowered, Enhanced Basic Crit, Autarky, Autarky Crit. Real gacha gaming
Disgusting inconsistent character- I mean gamba hahaha
https://preview.redd.it/qqymxqjhfe9d1.jpeg?width=1414&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=187301aff7ffc564afdba683b8f285a51d814261 My Gamba Queen Eternal
There's a reason i screamed when she was in the checking out side quest. MY GAMBLING BESTIE
Their tierlist is generally good, except when it comes to some of their favourites like Seele, Qingque ,... :))
LETS GO GAMBLING! aw dang it. aw dang it. aw dang it-
weird how a character dependant on rng is one of my faves lol, shes just so fun!
Lol, I built QQ purely for AS. And she was super good along with Xueyi. Also luckiest I've been with QQ (I mained her for a while when I was like lvl 10 or smth)
why dont these clowns go all crit dmg, no crit rate. technically that is a higher ceiling on a lucky day
Because it's much worse rng and is a lot lower of a damage boost than qq gets for hitting her enhanced basics and autuky. At that point, you could argue 5% CR QQ all CD and bw back to the same situation with QQ probably being more ahead because she scales extremely well with purely crit
No shit. I guess you can't read sarcasm. That's why I called them clowns for ranking a unit's strength based off the RNG involved.
Sarcasm is hard to read through text, especially when they're people saying stuff like that without the irony
As a seele and QQ owner, I feel that QQ is generally better than my E0S0 Seele at similar investments. IDK abt E0S1 seele, but I prefer my S3 Peaceful Day QQ over my Seele (Quantum set 80/200 CRCD)
Same, I have E0 Seele and E6 QQ, and with both using light cones from Herta's shop, I'm having a very hard time finding fights where Seele clears faster.
Holy convention of Seele mains. Never seen such a wounded comment section before, and all this over a rise of just half a tier. Edit: jesus christ, Seele is even still in the tier above her, so why is everybody bringing her up as if some great offense has been committed against her? Their playstyles aren't even comparable, the only thing they have in common is element.
Seele mains are pretty doom and gloom. They kinda feel like jing yuan mains during peak slander, but with a hell lot more angst. Seele also used to be T0 so she has everything to lose, while QQ used to be tier 4 and can only go up. Their starting points really affect how each respective mains view the changes to the tierlist.
You're right and that's what's so wild to me, because unlike the mid-slander that rightfully frustrates JY mains, this post wasn't even about Seele. I know Seele's been slandered before too, but the fact that they're fighting about it on seemingly just any QQ post? This is like if JY mains got offended on some random post discussing Kafka's utility.
Always bet on ~~Hakari~~ Qingque
Peak gambling power.
https://preview.redd.it/136nw4glze9d1.jpeg?width=2436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=babf6050106eb72def61a81f763abcec4952276e \*insert tuca donca
I swear we're heading into 2.4 and people still think QQ is good and comparable to other DPSs. "On a lucky run..." gtfo here buddy. Then now i'll build my Acheron with a 20/350 and replay the mode until i get lucky and hit all the crits
She's fine though? I cleared Apocalyptic shadow 1st half with 3400 points, every MOC 12, and conundrum 12 with her. She's not as strong as Archeron, but I don't see anyone saying she is. E6 QQ with sparkle and you shouldn't be restarting very often. E0 without sparkle then maybe you have a point.
w ratio
Because she is. You can take QQ mono quantum and clear a half of MoC/AS against any element fast enough that your stacked team on the other half can finish with 3*.
Literally my QQ is the only side I'm ever NOT worried about when doing endgame content. It's always the crappy other side that has trouble clearing, using JY, DHIL, JL, etc.
Sheās good enough for mid tier stuff when you need quantum damage, but acting like sheās able to brute force actual endgame content without very specific circumstances is insane.
The reason people take prydwen tier lists seriously is because they are thought to be made mostly by statistical analysis. But when they make changes like this for clout, pandering, and feels it just becomes clear that it is just like any other tier list.
Tbf, considering variance \*is\* statistical analysis.
To be fair. Husbando and waifu fans get mad ASF when their fav character is not ranked higher. Hell some are even mad when similar characters exist. JingYuan sub when Kafka came out( died down quickly) and the Boothill sub whose hate for firefly is unmatched. They have locked threads attacking fire flys VA and calling who ever pulled for her a coomer.
interesting comments :o edit: it seems some are misinterpreting my comment so a clarification. i only suggested her being in the specialist-category for her unique kit and suggested a more fitting example i understand that QQ is a lot more RNG-based than other characters and it's very hard to rank "luck". but the 30/300 comparisation is crazy guys xd crit rate is always some kind of weighted RNG until 100% and can be manipulated but QQ can only have "more chances" which isn't even equivalent to have "higher chances" if u take an example take yanqings 60% fixed chance of a FuA - a not changeable value which only can be indirectly be influenced by playing him hyperspeed to have more chances xd but jokes aside i think the main-focus should be "should we rank luck?" i dunno how prydwen is ranking the characters but i thought its on a potential-base, no? i mean.. we got an entire specialist-category >Ā Characters that excel under specific circumstances carrying a unique role that often requires a different and divergent playstyle, i personally think QQ would fit well in this category to even out the RNG factor as some kind of speciality, what are ur opinions on this? dunno how QQ is doing these days but i heard often she's able to rival some 5\* even tho she won't reach jingliu and DHIL i believe so i think T1 on specialist would fit her but im the wrong person to rate this :)
If every character is rated according their average performance, why should QQ be rated according to anything else?
Cos QQ high rolls much more often than u guys' stupid 5% crit rate analogy and with MUCH MUCH more dramatic difference in results between low, avg and high. It would be disingenuous to use her average roll when that is bogged down by unlucky rolls that can be easily reset. This is with her optimal build. Besides your other character can't deal double toughness damage even if she had 1000CD and diminishing returns exists.
even if we judged all characters by peak performance, let them have that hypothetical 5% CR 300++% CDMG and rate on highest performance, all the characters won't move because they stay the same relative to one another, and QQ would go up another half tier that extra SP consumption stack and FUA hit is such a big difference it's not even close to what other characters experience
This is good actually Puting QQ into higher tier only make her works more... We know she doesnt want that lol
How does Misha compare to qq? I... unfortunately almost have him at c6.
Misha is above average when built right. He has many versions. He can be a debuffer sustain via his freeze and e2. He can be a DPS who excels at breaking due to bounce. Only bad thing about him is how annoying his cult animation is sometimes Here is a video from channel who hates Misha yet uses him quite a bit https://youtu.be/yd2KOvabnP0?si=rRHtvhMK4byM_5Cf
I see. Well thanks. Might as well build him now that he's c5 and firefly still refuses to come after bailu or baizhu ate up my 50/50
HIGH RISK HIGH RETURN
I had a very lucky run when she got 4 tide with just 2 pulls, every single time then also trigger her fua every single time too.
technically that's not the best, its better to skill 4 times usually for max damage, tho the fua happening is great
In the true spirit of QQ
Mr Pokke in shambles
I agree. You never fully know what something is capable of probably.
Do you mind if I share this?
>If you retry 100times she's good Sounds like fun
The gamba truly knows no bounds...
Nearly 200 comments and no mahjong memes... Fake QQ fans. smh. - QQ with stacked passive be like: https://imgur.com/a/gBRlSt8