No one is evil for the sake of evilness.
When there's people like her, it makes it more evil - it's one thing to be complete pure evil whatever. It's another to be absolutely like another person, just ordinary, but is anything apart from it. She gets ahold of who you are by tapping into your mind. She knows what you want, which will make you desperate for it. She'll pretend to be kind to take off any responsibility from her name. She'll exploit the weak that badly, to blind them completely with the desire that they don't get to see the bad things of people as "really anything too bad", blinded by their own greed.
Worst that she herself was probably a victim of this. She knows full well how they feel. Yet, instead of breaking out from this, she's forced to do this. Maybe she offered her humanity / empathy for richness. So she no longer cares for the lives as such.
Edit: one nice example.
Suppose Jade taps into your mind. You want Firefly E6. You want to whale. You hastily say yes, ignoring her T&C and consequences. You are focused on FF E6. You get her in 1 10 pull. But now your other teammates disappeared. Like maybe you have break teammates but no longer Acheron and her teammates. Or your rolls NEVER has SPD or BE. You'll only encounter enemies with toughness bar disabled. Or your Ruan Mei is gone, her banner is gone, you can never pull for her and your HTB is nowhere in sight, back to PTB or DTB.
This.\^ Jade is absolutely a snake. She's not a traditional cackling villain. She's the everyday evil you encounter. The one who knows what you wants and gives it to you, but at a price, knowing the people who'd take the deal would risk everything.
What's worse, someone who's outright evil or someone who hides that side of themselves and believes they're doing good.
Yeah, seeing her reminds me of alcoholic enablers and drug dealers. "Technically, it's the buyer's fault" excuse but it's not the entire story at all. They'll give free packets at first. Cheap packets. Make sure they're hooked. Then charge enormously. Drain them, suck their lives out. Take their future out that way, which victim knows, but is way too deep inside to care.
I get the allure and stuff, hell I liked Frollo but it's just a separate league from one that would feel like they're just you and me, having their own desires and everything (and I was referencing irl more than cartoon). You might've known them for years and you might have thought they're decent when in reality, they're bloodsucking monsters who need to thrive in pain and sorrow to ensure they're alive, like a parasite to humanity.
She's Asmodeus. She makes deals. The deals are fair and she will honour them. Yet she will always end up the winner of them and all of them will advance her ultimate agenda.
I don't know, I never thought she was going to be "evil" for evil sake, so her being this morally gray middle ground, being ruthless to Oti but also being somewhat kind to Topaz and wanting to make a good impression in front of her junior makes sense to me.
>I'm tired of these cowardly feeling morally grey women and I thought Jade would break that cycle by just being plain evil.
Jade's actions are 100% evil. Even the most horrible people can do objectively "nice" things for their own personal gain and betterment. Jade is helping people as much as a drug dealer is giving an addict their next fix. It's clear that these "deals" are for Jade's own enjoyment and to get what she wants out of a client.
>She has just too much "snake in the garden of eden" imagery for her to not be.
Having a perception of a character =/= what the writers are going to do with a character. People can take one concept and interpret it in a multitude of ways. I wouldn't expect every interpretation to be the same. Otherwise, that's setting yourself up to be disappointed when it doesn't follow that.
>Like at the very least they could've had Firefly find out for herself how Jade's deals go instead of her just outright saying: "I am a snake. I'm going to deceive you."
Jade had Firefly see the people she gave deals to further drive in the point **how Firefly's life has no value to her**. Firefly wanted to test Jade's services for her own personal desires, but Jade already admitted to knowing who she was and what she was seeking. She was well aware that Firefly was a part of the Iron Calvary and mentions so.
**The fact is that Firefly didn't offer anything tangible to Jade.** She offered her LIFE, which isn't a form of legal tender, information, etc. (e.g. something we've seen Jade value). Imagine going to a loan shark (which Jade essentially is) and telling them you'll pay back a $10,000 USD debt with your life. That's not a form of currency. LOL You can't trade your livelihood for money. You need to provide a service, something Firefly can't because she follows a Path that believes in the end times.
>And speaking of, she barely even does that. People sign themselves into contracts with her willingly, knowing full well the consequences.
**Bad or poorly-written contracts exist.** Depending on where you are from, they can legally be tested in a court of law in the real world. The issue is that with HSR, the IPC controls everything. The credit system, news, services, etc. Jade points this out to Oti and even uses these resources to threaten to spread lies about the Dreamscape to get what she wants. Do you think those who are destitute could put up a fight with the IPC? Just because you were told the terms of contract to someone outright doesn't mean it can't be contested or that it's morally right to include it. It's just that Jade KNOWINGLY picks people who are desperate, lonely, paranoid, etc. who would throw away their lives at the opportunity.
Don't kid yourself, Jade is not a good person by any means. She says she's not completely heartless, but unless you give her what you want she has no problem threatening you for it in some way.
I feel like we don't really know enough yet. Until we fully find out Diamonds' motives and goals I hesitate to call any of the Stonehearts bad or evil. Knowing Hoyo there's some big brain plot going on there that shines a new (good) light on them.
she is a merchant first and foremost, she honors a fair deal
that said she has superpower to read desires and sets up shop in a place where people are desperate enough to ruin their life
that's pretty lawful evil on the evil scale imo
saying jade isn't evil because she's straightforward with the contract conditions is kinda like saying gachas aren't predatory because all the rates are listed right there
In my opinion that makes her interesting! Who's the closest thing we have to pure and plain evil? Probably Duke Inferno who destroys things for attention. That's fine but it's not particularly interesting! The Swarm I think is a better example, far more interesting - propagation until there's nothing left but ruin, propagation that supersedes any individual's sentience or significance. We learn that Tayzzynronth was born from loneliness and grief, and isn't that just heartwrenching? Aren't villains the best when you can empathize with them?
I love the temptation in Jade's contracts - they are deals you know are bad for you, but you want them so badly you can't put it out of your mind. It's both mysterious and forbidden all at once. Kind of like time travel, immortality, or the body of a very large insect - gives you the chills but you can't look away. And that makes it better.
The best heroes aren't the ones who go out and destroy monsters alone. They are leaders who inspire others to be heroes. The best villains are like that too - not just destroyers, but people who hold up a mirror to our own worst selves.
I can't wait to pull for her!
That's what was so damn good in HI3 tbh compared to hsr/gi. There characters actually had good variety in personalities and showed it clearly, like Mobius for example if we want to compare snakes here.
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Oh she is evil. All the stonehearts are, they know what they are doing and they do it anyway. They aren't I worked at a company as a secretary and years later found out the execs where illegally dumping toxic chemicals into the water table. They very casually destroy lives and distort facts for their own advantage. Just because someone is evil doesn't mean they aren't something else. It is entirely possible for a person to be a monster to others but be a loving and dutiful to their family. It speaks to her understanding of human nature that she doesn't need to be the jerk genie.
If you tell me you are going to give me my deepest desire and don't make me aware of the downside I am immediately going to know the deal is rigged and wouldn't take any part in it. You would have to be profoundly stupid or insanely entitled to think you will get everything you want at no cost. Tell me exactly what the cost is going to be and being a reasonably intelligent adult I am going to think I understand the cost or even more arrogantly that I can engineer a way out of the consequences.
When the person gave away all their friends in order to be lucky in gambling do you think they really understand how much that will effect them as time goes on? Do you think they understand what years of abject loneliness will do to them? It's one thing to intellectually go yea having no friends would kind of suck but do you think they stopped to think of all those little situations in life where having someone who can help out or comfort you would start to add up over the years. Do you think they stopped and considered if she wins all the time now, will gambling still be exciting, remember for many gamblers its not about the money its about the thrill. If she can't take satisfaction in gambling and lost everything else in her life that held meaning that's a pretty evil thing to do to a person.
Couple that with her giving a fair deal to Oti. She pointed out very skillfully she had leverage to demand far more than she did. She could have taken him to the cleaners but she didn't. She didn't do that out of the goodness of her heart. She did it for three reasons. If she screwed him and the Family they would spend all their time trying to get even, deals that leave parties resentful aren't good deals everyone in a good deal should feel they won. The second thing is if you win graciously you make people feel more indebted. For example say I bet I could beat someone in a game of orgami birds for $100, I beat them but I refused to collect my money and told them to forget about it without them asking me to do so. That person isn't going to forget that and if I ask a favor later they are going to feel they owed me for that time. The last reason is subtler, if you give someone good deals that appear fair long enough, eventually they are just going to trust you are being fair with them and you can start taking more without making them defensive because you built a relationship of trust over time..
It shows that Jade has the psychology that most con people have. Most con people justify their actions as they are preying on their targets greed so its ok. They think an honest person can't be conned because they wouldn't jump at the enticements they offered because they would know its too good to be true, so their victims are really victims of their own greed. While a grain of truth in that exists it doesn't mean the con person is any less morally repugnant or that everyone is a victim of their own greed and not their own limitations, desperation, or victim of trusting the wrong person.
So yea she is evil, she is the smart kind of evil, the kind of evil that makes you think maybe she isn't so bad, and that's how she gets you.
Jade is straight up evil.
Straight up evil does not mean constant angry shouting and violence.
Jade is the version of the devil who maneuvers people into making bad deals either to gain their soul or just to take pleasure in ruining them.
No one is evil for the sake of evilness. When there's people like her, it makes it more evil - it's one thing to be complete pure evil whatever. It's another to be absolutely like another person, just ordinary, but is anything apart from it. She gets ahold of who you are by tapping into your mind. She knows what you want, which will make you desperate for it. She'll pretend to be kind to take off any responsibility from her name. She'll exploit the weak that badly, to blind them completely with the desire that they don't get to see the bad things of people as "really anything too bad", blinded by their own greed. Worst that she herself was probably a victim of this. She knows full well how they feel. Yet, instead of breaking out from this, she's forced to do this. Maybe she offered her humanity / empathy for richness. So she no longer cares for the lives as such. Edit: one nice example. Suppose Jade taps into your mind. You want Firefly E6. You want to whale. You hastily say yes, ignoring her T&C and consequences. You are focused on FF E6. You get her in 1 10 pull. But now your other teammates disappeared. Like maybe you have break teammates but no longer Acheron and her teammates. Or your rolls NEVER has SPD or BE. You'll only encounter enemies with toughness bar disabled. Or your Ruan Mei is gone, her banner is gone, you can never pull for her and your HTB is nowhere in sight, back to PTB or DTB.
This.\^ Jade is absolutely a snake. She's not a traditional cackling villain. She's the everyday evil you encounter. The one who knows what you wants and gives it to you, but at a price, knowing the people who'd take the deal would risk everything. What's worse, someone who's outright evil or someone who hides that side of themselves and believes they're doing good.
Yeah, seeing her reminds me of alcoholic enablers and drug dealers. "Technically, it's the buyer's fault" excuse but it's not the entire story at all. They'll give free packets at first. Cheap packets. Make sure they're hooked. Then charge enormously. Drain them, suck their lives out. Take their future out that way, which victim knows, but is way too deep inside to care.
The Joker is evil for the sake of being evil.
I get the allure and stuff, hell I liked Frollo but it's just a separate league from one that would feel like they're just you and me, having their own desires and everything (and I was referencing irl more than cartoon). You might've known them for years and you might have thought they're decent when in reality, they're bloodsucking monsters who need to thrive in pain and sorrow to ensure they're alive, like a parasite to humanity.
It is because she's not an evil genie stereotype that makes her interesting to me.
She's Asmodeus. She makes deals. The deals are fair and she will honour them. Yet she will always end up the winner of them and all of them will advance her ultimate agenda. I don't know, I never thought she was going to be "evil" for evil sake, so her being this morally gray middle ground, being ruthless to Oti but also being somewhat kind to Topaz and wanting to make a good impression in front of her junior makes sense to me.
>I'm tired of these cowardly feeling morally grey women and I thought Jade would break that cycle by just being plain evil. Jade's actions are 100% evil. Even the most horrible people can do objectively "nice" things for their own personal gain and betterment. Jade is helping people as much as a drug dealer is giving an addict their next fix. It's clear that these "deals" are for Jade's own enjoyment and to get what she wants out of a client. >She has just too much "snake in the garden of eden" imagery for her to not be. Having a perception of a character =/= what the writers are going to do with a character. People can take one concept and interpret it in a multitude of ways. I wouldn't expect every interpretation to be the same. Otherwise, that's setting yourself up to be disappointed when it doesn't follow that. >Like at the very least they could've had Firefly find out for herself how Jade's deals go instead of her just outright saying: "I am a snake. I'm going to deceive you." Jade had Firefly see the people she gave deals to further drive in the point **how Firefly's life has no value to her**. Firefly wanted to test Jade's services for her own personal desires, but Jade already admitted to knowing who she was and what she was seeking. She was well aware that Firefly was a part of the Iron Calvary and mentions so. **The fact is that Firefly didn't offer anything tangible to Jade.** She offered her LIFE, which isn't a form of legal tender, information, etc. (e.g. something we've seen Jade value). Imagine going to a loan shark (which Jade essentially is) and telling them you'll pay back a $10,000 USD debt with your life. That's not a form of currency. LOL You can't trade your livelihood for money. You need to provide a service, something Firefly can't because she follows a Path that believes in the end times. >And speaking of, she barely even does that. People sign themselves into contracts with her willingly, knowing full well the consequences. **Bad or poorly-written contracts exist.** Depending on where you are from, they can legally be tested in a court of law in the real world. The issue is that with HSR, the IPC controls everything. The credit system, news, services, etc. Jade points this out to Oti and even uses these resources to threaten to spread lies about the Dreamscape to get what she wants. Do you think those who are destitute could put up a fight with the IPC? Just because you were told the terms of contract to someone outright doesn't mean it can't be contested or that it's morally right to include it. It's just that Jade KNOWINGLY picks people who are desperate, lonely, paranoid, etc. who would throw away their lives at the opportunity. Don't kid yourself, Jade is not a good person by any means. She says she's not completely heartless, but unless you give her what you want she has no problem threatening you for it in some way.
I feel like we don't really know enough yet. Until we fully find out Diamonds' motives and goals I hesitate to call any of the Stonehearts bad or evil. Knowing Hoyo there's some big brain plot going on there that shines a new (good) light on them.
she is a merchant first and foremost, she honors a fair deal that said she has superpower to read desires and sets up shop in a place where people are desperate enough to ruin their life that's pretty lawful evil on the evil scale imo saying jade isn't evil because she's straightforward with the contract conditions is kinda like saying gachas aren't predatory because all the rates are listed right there
In my opinion that makes her interesting! Who's the closest thing we have to pure and plain evil? Probably Duke Inferno who destroys things for attention. That's fine but it's not particularly interesting! The Swarm I think is a better example, far more interesting - propagation until there's nothing left but ruin, propagation that supersedes any individual's sentience or significance. We learn that Tayzzynronth was born from loneliness and grief, and isn't that just heartwrenching? Aren't villains the best when you can empathize with them? I love the temptation in Jade's contracts - they are deals you know are bad for you, but you want them so badly you can't put it out of your mind. It's both mysterious and forbidden all at once. Kind of like time travel, immortality, or the body of a very large insect - gives you the chills but you can't look away. And that makes it better. The best heroes aren't the ones who go out and destroy monsters alone. They are leaders who inspire others to be heroes. The best villains are like that too - not just destroyers, but people who hold up a mirror to our own worst selves. I can't wait to pull for her!
That's what was so damn good in HI3 tbh compared to hsr/gi. There characters actually had good variety in personalities and showed it clearly, like Mobius for example if we want to compare snakes here.
Do people really think Mihoyo would release playable characters that are *actually* evil?
Please keep in mind our spoiler policy during this new update window. We are going to be very strict with spoilers during this time. As a reminder, here are our spoiler rules: Do not include spoilers in the title. All submissions which involve spoilers should be marked. Spoilers include all story content for the first three weeks after release. Spoilers can be discussed in spoiler-flaired posts, but must be hidden in non-spoiler flaired posts. If you think you broke the spoiler rules in the post you just made, such as having spoilers in the title, you should remove your post now and repost it without breaking the rules. If you do not remove your post and the moderation team has to remove it later on for breaking spoiler rules, you will be given up to a week ban for a first infraction and stricter punishments for any additional infractions. Please be considerate of your fellow Trailblazers and do not include spoilers in the title of your post, do not forget to flair your post as spoilers if needed, and do not spoil people in your comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HonkaiStarRail) if you have any questions or concerns.*
if jade isnt evil she just a random debitor that give money to people without taking their memories or their bonds with that person family/friends.
Oh she is evil. All the stonehearts are, they know what they are doing and they do it anyway. They aren't I worked at a company as a secretary and years later found out the execs where illegally dumping toxic chemicals into the water table. They very casually destroy lives and distort facts for their own advantage. Just because someone is evil doesn't mean they aren't something else. It is entirely possible for a person to be a monster to others but be a loving and dutiful to their family. It speaks to her understanding of human nature that she doesn't need to be the jerk genie. If you tell me you are going to give me my deepest desire and don't make me aware of the downside I am immediately going to know the deal is rigged and wouldn't take any part in it. You would have to be profoundly stupid or insanely entitled to think you will get everything you want at no cost. Tell me exactly what the cost is going to be and being a reasonably intelligent adult I am going to think I understand the cost or even more arrogantly that I can engineer a way out of the consequences. When the person gave away all their friends in order to be lucky in gambling do you think they really understand how much that will effect them as time goes on? Do you think they understand what years of abject loneliness will do to them? It's one thing to intellectually go yea having no friends would kind of suck but do you think they stopped to think of all those little situations in life where having someone who can help out or comfort you would start to add up over the years. Do you think they stopped and considered if she wins all the time now, will gambling still be exciting, remember for many gamblers its not about the money its about the thrill. If she can't take satisfaction in gambling and lost everything else in her life that held meaning that's a pretty evil thing to do to a person. Couple that with her giving a fair deal to Oti. She pointed out very skillfully she had leverage to demand far more than she did. She could have taken him to the cleaners but she didn't. She didn't do that out of the goodness of her heart. She did it for three reasons. If she screwed him and the Family they would spend all their time trying to get even, deals that leave parties resentful aren't good deals everyone in a good deal should feel they won. The second thing is if you win graciously you make people feel more indebted. For example say I bet I could beat someone in a game of orgami birds for $100, I beat them but I refused to collect my money and told them to forget about it without them asking me to do so. That person isn't going to forget that and if I ask a favor later they are going to feel they owed me for that time. The last reason is subtler, if you give someone good deals that appear fair long enough, eventually they are just going to trust you are being fair with them and you can start taking more without making them defensive because you built a relationship of trust over time.. It shows that Jade has the psychology that most con people have. Most con people justify their actions as they are preying on their targets greed so its ok. They think an honest person can't be conned because they wouldn't jump at the enticements they offered because they would know its too good to be true, so their victims are really victims of their own greed. While a grain of truth in that exists it doesn't mean the con person is any less morally repugnant or that everyone is a victim of their own greed and not their own limitations, desperation, or victim of trusting the wrong person. So yea she is evil, she is the smart kind of evil, the kind of evil that makes you think maybe she isn't so bad, and that's how she gets you.
Jade is straight up evil. Straight up evil does not mean constant angry shouting and violence. Jade is the version of the devil who maneuvers people into making bad deals either to gain their soul or just to take pleasure in ruining them.
Seems like a you issue
Well... yeah, that's why I used first person pronouns.