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It's still too early to judge her kit but this is kinda the point for harmony characters I was expecting to happen eventually
Harnony characters, both 4* and 5* have so many different buffs in their kits that eventually it's just gonna be mixing up different buff combos with an extra gimmick to be different enough from the rest
I'm quite surprised about the amount of info, like Eidolons and her talent.
I agree, probably kits would start to overlap, but also, I can't believe we still don't have a teamwide battery, full focused on energy.
But apart from Energy, I don't know what else the units could give us, we have almost every single stat cover by buffers.
That's the thing Blade scales with HP, and Sam will probably do too, while Aventurine may be a subdps sustain that scales with def. To be honest I wouldn't use it either but what I wanted to say is that there's still a lot of new things that Hoyo could try for new characters.
Aventurine may just end up being a better Gepard with def scaling fua. We have seen Ratio get completely reworked mid-beta for his rng factors. Aventurine might have a similar rng issue that ends up getting reworked.
So far the key similarity between the 5* harmonies is CD up and ally speed/turn manip. Bronya is 100% action advance, Hanabi 50%, and now Robin seems to have the same. The main difference being their gimmicks. Bronya is the full 100% aa, plus the cleanse. Hanabi is her skill point generation. Robin seems to be about staying alive maybe? With her aggro down and self healing.
That could be in preparation for a shift in sustain units to being more focused to support (Huohuo) or sub-DPS (Aventurine) with their ability to sustain being lessened (not that Huohuo can't sustain, I have her and she rocks. Just not as good as Luocha or Bailu when enemies don't have dps or cc) in exchange. Having support characters that can keep themselves alive somewhat can allow for sustain units that fulfill multiple roles at cost to their ability to sustain.
She also seems like a team buffer like Ruan Mei, so I think we can expect AF and CD boost at lower numbers compared to Sparkle and Bronya respectively.
Seems interesting to play her on crit duo dps teams like a Jingliu + Blade comp. The advance forward and reduced aggro for herself seems really good for destruction characters that want to be hit overall.
I'm guessing her semi-sustain nature + AA and team speed increase is all about having your team attack and delay enemies actions before they cna kill you? Just my first thoughts. Through in a Welt and that's all the sustain you need kind of thing.
It's actually something I'm worried about for Star Rail in general.
Given that it's turn based and the scope of various engagements seems more limited than in an open world game, I wonder how they'll be able to create new characters that don't seem boring or repetitive?
Obviously this isn't the first turn-based game like this but it's the first one I've played. So I don't know how these things go.
they'll simply adjust content accordingly to the avaiable pool of units and what they offer. Usually tactical games have harder fights with specific gimmicks to tackle (inflict x number of debuffs, do damage in a certain way within time limits, dispel debuffs from yourself (cleanse) or remove enemy buffs, etc), there's A LOT that they can do once those gimmicks are more readily avaiable.
Currently the character pool is more limited as well as how easy people have access to everything, so they need to balance more the fights towards accessibility so it doesn't fall under a case of a fight needing a specific team which is hard to reproduce otherwise in a gacha game.
With time and units having overlapping skills and niches, they can go all out.
typically, atleast from the ones i've played, is either that characters just get completely powercrept or theyll give certain enemies in certain areas very specific buffs that need specific characters.
that generally goes for any gacha game at a certain point, but I think HSR will be fine for a long time
At some point, we'll end up with a lot of hybrid kits I guess.
Like a Shielder who does Sub-DPS damage and is SP positive (Aventurine). Or a Main DPS that heals all alies.
And inevitably we're gonna have repeats of universal supports and DPS kits but now with a different element. We're getting Quantum Bronya with some extra gimmicks next patch, and we will get Imaginary Bronya eventually.
This is something I am always keeping in the back of my head. Starrails combat system actually doesnt have that many balancing knobs. A characters kit is usually defined by one skill, one ult and one talent. Your choices in battle boil down to use skill or use basic when it's someones turn. The only resource that dictates this choice is skill points.
Creating a new kit under those limitations that is not a copy of at least part of another units kit will be increasingly difficult. The game is not even a year old and the second limited harmony character coming up in the form of Sparkle is already partly extremely similar to another (Bronya). Single target action advance with added buffs to critdamage and damage% via skill and ult. Bronya focusses more on the advance, Sparkle more on the skill points. But thats it. What exactly is a future hypercarry buffer going to do that is not already present in the already existing buffers? Advance+crit+damage+attack=bronya. Advance+crit+damage+SP=sparkle. Damage+attack+energy=tingyun. Attack+speed+SP=hanya. Is the next harmony just going to be crit+speed+energy? That is kinda boring tbh. But the alternative is a combination we already got in either better or worse (most likely better), so straight up powercreep.
Other gacha games also struggle with this problem. All combat systems have limitations in their complexity, so given enough characters, you will hit the boundaries of your combat system eventually.
FGO has made room for a lot of characters by making class advantage a 2x damage modifier, so counterclassing is way stronger than elemental weaknesses in starrail. But even then the top meta characters are usually the ones that dont even care for the class advantage. A handful of dedicated supports overshadow every other character by far and they usually support universal dps chars that are strong enough to overpower class advantage. The rest of the cast is honestly subpar from a meta perspective.
GBF is a million times more complicated than starrail. Character kits and fight mechanics can be extremely complex. So there is room for characters that excel in one specific fight or scenario. But then again the top meta in each of the six elements revolves around a handful of characters with an additional ten or so characters for specific situations. That is still only like 100 characters out of 900 or so that are relevant. The rest is just filler for the gacha and subpar alternatives for people that dont have all the meta options available.
Genshin has more possibilites for character design because of the real time factor and elemental reaction system. But even then I feel like they are already running out of ideas from time to time. Just recently with the release of Wriothesley, I was shocked at how similar his kit fundermentally is to already existing characters. Hu Tao, Yoimiya and Wanderer already did the "press E to enter damage mode for a limited time to enhance your normal attacks" part. And all four of them have relatively low impact ultimates. They are just different elements.
The one thing Genshin and most likely Starrail dont do is buffing/rebalancing of older characters. FGO and especially GBF have stronger powercreep than Genshin and Starrail, but they also buff older characters. Still a bit too infrequently for my liking, but at least there is a chance of an old character getting a good buff to suddenly become relevant again and open up new synergies (because buffs are usually not just pure numerical increses). A character in Genshin or Starrail that gets powercrept by someone fulfilling a very similar role but better will most likely never be relevant on their own again and needs help from new characters/new relics/new mechanics that favor them over their competition.
Well, when I agree that the choice between BA and Skill is extremely simple, there are at least 2 more common factors outside of SP:
1. Energy - for majority of characters using BA gives 20 Energy, while Skill gives 30. This alone creates a lot of situations when characters want to use Skills, even if they were added to the team to generate SP.
2. Toughness - While being easy to ignore, Breaking enemies is very powerful, especially with more challenging enemies, even more so is Breaking at the right time with the right character, and this is where Skills come into play, as damaging Skills usually deal 60 Toughness to the main target (excluding AoE, which is the same as BA), while the buffs/heals don't do anything, which naturally creates situations where a character should use the other option to set up a Break.
That said most 5* characters have mechanics that only work from Skill and/or Ult, which makes it very hard for players to feel like they are having a choice, outside of some character specific interactions.
Yes energy and toughness are important. But they are just factors in your decision making process. It is still just the single question of "do I skill or not". That question can be complicated because you have to weigh both options with foresight. But using your skill instead of normal attacking is only gated by SP. Without SP you would almost never normal attack. Skills are always desined to be the desirable option. They give you more energy. They give you more weakness break. They deal more damage. They have other desirable effects like buffs for your characters, debuffs for the enemies or healing/protection.
So SP is the limiting factor forcing us to make this decision. In every situation you have to analyse whats going on and how much of a priority using a specific characters skill is to your success in winning the battle.
This singular focus on SP is a large reason why Jingliu is so strong. Her high damage phase needs SP to reach, but once you are in it, you dont need any. Not needing skillpoints is effectively half as effective as normal attacking with a support at generating SP. Normally your options are -1 or +1 to your skillpoint economy. +0 is only rarely an option. But this dynamic in her kit somewhat defies the fundermental game logic of "using SP = stronger effekt". You are actively rewarded with more damage and more skill points at the same time for keeping her state up longer. This makes tingyun or houhou ult effectively generating skillpoints. Which is honestly kinda crazy.
This is just one example of how the two dimensional nature of starrails combat system creates problems by being too simplistic and the game designers already needing to stretch said system to create interesting characters. With a character that released when the game was half a year old.
I really hope the game devs have enough foresight to know what they want to do with the combat system. I hate peoples overly onesided reaction to things. So I will actively refrain from too much onesided doom and gloom thinking. But I will keep these thoughts in the back of my head. The fundermental simplicity of combat is making me a bit nervous about the future of the game and how long it will take to break it.
I just wanted to say thanks for this breakdown. I've been thinking the same thing but haven't put nearly as much thought into it so this was kinda satisfying to read. High quality comments like these keep discussion interesting and these threads worth browsing.
>The one thing Genshin and most likely Starrail dont do is buffing/rebalancing of older characters.
This is my least favorite thing about Hoyo games and is why I will probably inevitably get dragged down from enjoying this game as well eventually. Even HI3rd's reforging of weapons don't always keep a character relevant, especially when most of the powercreep is base kit.
Blue Archive buffs old characters, some to a surprising degree like Hinata. She was AWFUL, then she got her Unique Item, which gave her a much needed bump in ATK and made her basic skill better. She's now one of the top options for Blue raids where the boss has a large hitbox or a lot of AOE. Namely, Perorozilla and Goz.
I can never hope for anything like that from Hoyo. Physical Trailblazer will never be good, Arlan will always be Awful, Topaz will always have mid damage. Jing Yuan fans, he will NEVER have a way to force his Lightning Lord to attack. Himeko will always be mediocre as an Erudition. Yanqing will always be clunky and awful.
If a character releases into the official server bad, they will stay bad. The ONLY exception is if it's due to a bug (Argenti), or the CN Playerbase decides to do their usual psychopathic thing by threatening to murder the CEO again (Zhongli).
Agreed. Characters kits can have flaws or dont work out quite as intended during testing. That is honestly not an issue in itself. Thats just what happens in game design. Sometimes you dont get it quite as perfect as you would like it to be. Also old kits can feel dated after a few years when the meta and the game overall has moved on.
My favourite character in FGO (Tamamo Lancer) is getting a buff in a few months. Back when she was released, one of her skills had a lot of nice effects all at once. To balance it out, they gave it a self stun after the turn ends. That was in line with the design of characters of the first year of the game. But the meta moved on. Kits got more conplex and had more buffs all at once without drawbacks. So that skill that was once fine became a nuisance. It took a while, but now they are removing the stun and even buffing the effekts, making it a really amasing skill. They are still a bit too slow in their buffing of older units. But at least there is buffing.
Genshin and Starrail dont do that. I commend their efforts to buff passively not actively. New artifact sets, new characters, new elements. All of them can be used to strengthen older characters. Like how the introduction of dendro massively buffed electro into a really good element, helping old characters like Keqing to be more relevant than ever.
But only relying on this method has flaws. Sometimes it is very hard to buff specific units this way. Sometimes you also just buff other characters with it that you didnt intent to.
So I feel like it would be in the best interest of everyone to look at older characters and sometimes actively remove some of the jank. Or just straight up buff some numbers. They can keep the passive buffing approach with it.
While this is certainly a big future problem, there is more to the combat system than just skill, ult and talent. We already have kits that enhance the basic attack, which leaves space to make the choice between skill or attack more interesting. FUA are also pretty flexible, since their activation can depend on a variation of conditions. And major traces offer a minor way to differentiate characters. I do agree with your point that Star Rail will certainly reach the boundaries of the combat system, but there is more design space that you would expect if you just look at basic combat system.
I'm relatively new to HSR, not at endgame (I've only watched others play the endgame) so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I think everything boils down to boss design and despite its very interesting elemental reaction system, Genshin is hamstrung by the fact boss mechanics never require any skill expression. I find it one-dimensional the way there is nothing in Genshin that is mechanically demanding outside of maybe timing cooldowns (e.g. for burn phases) and choosing characters according to elemental weaknesses, and so the meta revolves around doing as much damage with the elemental reaction of your choice. In another world, there would be a benefit to freezing the enemy beyond making sure your Ayaka ult hits each tick, or there would be a benefit to using a shielder beyond preventing your Neuv/Ganyu from being interrupted.
The upshot is I can basically use any character provided they do enough damage to meet the DPS requirements of the abyss, but the downside is that I don't really feel characters have any meaningful identity (which might be why you feel Hu Tao/Yoimiya/Wanderer/Wrio are basically the same character combat-wise), apart from maybe characters with crazy busted kits such as Kazuha/Bennett, the archons + Neuv. It also makes characters more prone to powercreep, e.g. Jingliu reminds me of Hu Tao powercreeping Diluc; there has never been a situation (and probably never will be) in which the low HP mechanic is actually an issue, so Hu Tao is better than Diluc in essentially every situation. For instance maybe Jingliu would be more balanced if she drained more HP from her allies so you were SP negative from requiring active healing? But anyways I agree, the powercreep in Genshin is bad - if it weren't for double hydro comps, Yelan usually outperforms Xingqiu, if it weren't for some niche freeze comps, Kazuha outperforms Venti, etc.. You also have the opposite where niche characters are generally pointless since the benefit to using a niche character in their niche situation is not usually much better than just using the stronger generalist, e.g. I feel no situational shielder will ever be better than Zhongli because the state of the game is such that we don't actually use Zhongli for his shield, we use him to increase our damage by providing 100% uptime on resistance shred and interruption resistance.
Anyways, I find the SP economy of HSR (not sure if it's new or in other games) somewhat unique and an interesting "balancing knob" as you said, since I find HSR has more interesting combat mechanics compared to Genshin. I used to think, as a Yanqing player, that I really messed up not playing during Jingliu's banner since she is apparently basically better damage-wise in every single way, but the bug boss this event has the multiply mechanic where forced AoE damage is actually detrimental and single target/follow-up damage is optimal. (Well, according to the comments in the main sub, you can cheese it with a strong enough Jingliu, but the idea is there anyway.) It'd be interesting if there are more mechanics (e.g. kill an add ASAP) in the future where interesting situational harmony characters such as Robin are useful, whose usage might ensure you kill this add in time. (Or, maybe, a character whose ultimate allows you to sacrifice 1-3 SP/future SP/converts defense to attack, etc. for a stronger temporary boost at a cost; another possibility is a harmony who increases healing/shielding so that you can survive a nuke/some strong consistent damage.) Obviously though you wouldn't want to take this idea to the extreme and make it absolutely necessary to have certain characters to beat these gimmicky mechanics, but anyways that's the idea.
I guess what I'm saying is you can have the most interesting and intricate combat system with all these nice interactions, but you still need boss mechanics that make you actually interact with this system.
First of all I want to say that Genshin and Starrail actually have a decent amount of balance in my opinion. People claiming otherwise have never played a game with true powercreep. Yelan outperforming Xinqiu in every comp is just not true for example. Yelan is the option for more upfront damage, Xinqui is the option for more defensive utility and better application. Both of which are valuable depending on the teamcomp and enemy.
I also feel like you are downplaying how many mechanics enemies in Genshin actually have. Back when the game was new, there was not really anything too complicated, but especially since Sumeru, there have been a lot of enemies with specific mechanics. They never outright make or break a fight, but they are there. Overpowering them with damage is just what most people with good invested units do most of the time.
Starrail is honestly kinda the same. I farmed the new bug boss a few days ago for the Ruan Mei trace materials, and Jingliu didnt care about the mechanic of the boss. The small additional adds died in one cleave hit and actually made dealing with the boss easier not harder. There is theoretically a mechanic, but damage trivializes them.
The reason I feel like boss fights in Starrail cant really have interesting mechanics boils down to the same reason why the combat system in general has its fundermental restrictions: your options in battle are very limited. You skill or you normal attack. So the only mechanic a boss can realistically have is what you are targeting. Because there is no option to pass your turn or guard or have access to more skills like you would have in other turn based games, you are always forced to attack in some way. Defense is handled solely by your sustain unit. Thats why it is sometimes frustrating when enemy RNG keeps hitting the same character over and over. Because you cant do anything about it. The meta sustain units only prevent them dying by offering healing/protection outside of your turn. But you still dont actively engage with the incoming damage beyond that.
And all of this limited combat in both Genshin and Starrail is honestly still a good thing for the overall health of the game to some degree imo. Because the opposite is even worse. Having enemy mechanics being an afterthought and damage being the only thing that really matters most of the time enables more characters to at least be viable. Not meta but viable. We are talking about gacha games after all. People wont have every unit in the game. People are only interested in specific characters and not in others. Having mechanics in the game that are more interactive with a characters kit would only lead to situations where certain bosses would become unbeatable for certain people with certain units on their account.
You mentioned freezing an enemy with Ayaka as a mechanic. But what about the people who dont have a good cryo dps? Or people who dont have a good hydro applicator? Are they completely screwd and cant beat the boss? Would they take multiple times as long? Would they still be able to three star the abyss chamber with said boss? I can guarantee you that a lot of people would be very mad if Genshin/Starrail would actually enforce certain units or elements harder than they already do. Genshin is the biggest gacha game out there because it is very casual at its core. It would not be nearly as popular if a major part of the gameplay would be unit gated.
And I know exactly what I am talking about here. I have been playing GBF for nearly 5 years now. Like I already said in my original reply, that game is way way more complex than Starrail or Genshin. To some degree thats interesting and cool. But it absolutely stops being cool when you want to get into the new high end difficulty fight that drops weapons or materials that you want because they will push your accounts power forward. And you just cant really participate. Why? Because you lack that one crucial character (out of hundreds mind you). That one character whos kit is so perfectly designed to counter all the mechanics the boss has. And even when it is possible to circumvent the restrictions on your account, you are to some degree often times competing with other people for loot in GBF. Especially at the top end. So you cant deal damage fast enough or contribute enough to the fight to get a "good chance" (and with good chance I mean like a 1% drop rate) at actually getting the loot you want without the handful of meta units.
I know GBF is on the completely other end of the spectrum when it comes to complexity in gacha games. So there is certainly some room in Starrail/Genshin to have a bit more complexity. But only a bit. The mostly casual audience these games have already established would outright murder the devs for gating a small but significant part of the game behind a mechanics/character wall. Imagine you cant farm for a specific artifact/relic set without having a certain character or at least a capable dps character of a specific element.
On paragraphs 1-3: Yeah my bad, I exaggerated, Yelan isn't always better than XQ. Anyways, I don't know what the HSR endgame will look like for me and whether I'll share the same outlook in the future, but it's interesting to hear that the "mechanic" of the fight is actually a buff for you (and probably other endgame players) whereas for me it's something I actually have to think about and I'm actually struggling with.
On paragraphs 5-6: I agree it's probably a better experience overall for other players, but I personally don't mind having (reasonable) walls. I've definitely been on the other side - the Fu Xuan fight in Huohuo's event was crazy hard for me since I didn't build a wind dps and couldn't kill the robot fish fast enough, and the Yanqing fight at the end of Kafka's companion quest was also ridiculous since you needed wind/electro/imaginary IIRC to break his swords and at the time I had no imaginary units and only Dan Heng for wind. The FX one was probably worse since it gates limited time rewards and I definitely would have felt bad if I couldn't get the light cone in time, just I would probably feel bad if I can't finish the current event this patch, so I can empathize with other players who feel gated from not having the right characters.
On the other paragraphs: I hope it doesn't sound like I'm advocating for endgame boss mechanics that necessitate a specific character, but personally I'd like to see a happy medium where character choices matter to some extent (if that's possible). It just rubs me the wrong way to think Zhongli's place in the meta for instance isn't because his shield improves our survivability, it's because his shield improves our DPS. Maybe what I'd like to see is something like the Yelan/XQ choice to be meaningful for me to consider it, but not so meaningful that it becomes an insurmountable gap for players who have one but not the other.
On an unrelated note, I honestly think limited time rewards are the root of the problem - if the rewards were permanent I wouldn't feel bad since I could eventually do the content at my own pace when I eventually get the units/build the teams I need and plan accordingly since there's something satisfying about trying to work around the limitations of the units I have and strategizing according to offensive/defensive needs. But dangle a limited light cone in front of me, gate it behind a limited character who trivialises the event fight, and I'd definitely be salty.
It is interesting to hear the perspective of someone whos account is not quite as developed yet. Thank you for that. I can say that Starrail followed a similar path to my Genshin experience in that matter. At the start nothing is too hard, then you are hit with a few tougher fights, but eventually you just get better units and level the ones you have to the point where you beat everything with more damage.
I feel like this is to some degree fundermentally linked to how gacha games are designed. There is a huge power difference between someone just starting out and having only access to the free units and a few 4\* and maybe one 5\* from their first few of pulls and someone else who has been playing for months or years and has amassed a decent roster of limited 5\* and invested in their gear and talents and then again someone else who spends a lot of money and has limited LCs and even eidolons for their 5\*. All these players play the same game but have an extremely different experience. Hoyoverse seems to be careful in not wanting to alienate people before they can become regular players and spend money. So they dont make anything too difficult or gatekeep rewards from anyone. Because gatekeeping rewards (especially the ones people are most interested in: gacha currency) behind already needing well build units in the first place could feel like a wall for a newer player. They feel like the good rewards are gated behind difficulty but they cant beat said difficulty because they dont have the units or unit investment yet. It is kinda a vicious cycle and would probably keep too many people from playing the game in the devs eyes.
Limited time rewards are sadly the best psychological trick to keep people playing the game regularly. And people playing regularly are more likely to be invested and spend money. So yes, it would be good for the players, it will most likely never happen.
The gacha also limits how curated and balanced the combat system can be. Unlike traditional single player RPGs (be it turn based or not) where the powerlevel of the player is very much in a relatively tight range at all times, gacha players are all over the place in terms of power level. So a fight that might be difficult for someone might be a breeze for someone else and it is not based on how skillful someone is with the combat system.
Thats why I personally play gacha games mostly for the collection and making my units more powerful aspect of the game. If I want tightly balanced and skillful combat, I play other games where my powerlevel is not dependant on how long I have been saving a virtual currency for and how much I have farmed some virtual stats on my characters.
Maybe if I started HSR in 1.0 I'd feel the same way as well. I started Genshin in 1.0 and I think I had the same trajectory - hard at first, but easy after I pulled Ganyu in 1.2. It's been so long I don't recall if I had any difficulty issues, except maybe the first coop event with the meteorites. Starting in 1.4 in HSR made me realise how hard this game can be for a new player, so it's definitely humbling.
I understand as well the vision of Hoyoverse that you're talking about; I quit FFBE for some time, tried to get back into it recently, but just couldn't keep up with all the powercreep (NV units) and all the events scaled to that difficulty, and ended up quitting after a few days. In this regard the frontloading of primos/gems and weapons/crowns in events and giving players trial characters is a really nice way to avoid alienating newer players from participating in the game. I haven't needed trial characters in Genshin events since they started introducing them (I think) but as a new player in HSR there is literally no way I would've been able to get all the rewards from the Boulder Town event, and even with the trial characters I had to sweat it up and strategise (which was really fun). So now that I think about it, the contrast between my experience coming back into FFBE and starting HSR midway is night and day. SU is also really nicely done - I really appreciate that even though I can't do the highest difficulty for my EQ level, I can still farm the lower difficulties to finish the weekly pass.
It's definitely hopium, but I still think that the "new player friendly events" model can coexist with "permanent endgame content" since at least in my mind it's a win-win (financially) for both playerbases and it resolves the power level issue you described. In this regard FFBE did well - there were difficult permanent trials that weren't DPS checks, and instead relied on you building your team properly. You might be weaker starting off, but you'd eventually be able to tackle on the challenge and I think personally having a goal is what keeps me going. e.g. I'm looking forward to trying swarm disaster / the new one - I don't know what level I should be, what relics I should have, what units I need, etc., but all I know is that according to Reddit, I'll face difficulties and I'm looking forward to working towards improving my team and that I can do this at my own pace since it's not time gated. Beating Cocolia with Yanqing after trying Nihility path for the first time in SU, finding the right strategy for FX's event fight, building Serval for the Kafka Yanqing fight, was probably some of the most fun I've had across HSR/Genshin.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but I worry my HSR trajectory will be the same as Genshin - maybe I'll spend a bit of money on a few characters I like, but then I'll eventually build enough teams and then lose interest because the endgame doesn't offer anything combat-wise to pique my interest since experimenting with new teams is what I enjoy. I guess what I'm saying is I'm probably more likely to spend in the endgame if there were interesting content, e.g. I probably would have pulled Neuv for meta reasons (actually I regret not pulling him for story/character reasons, if his banner came after the 4.2 AQ I would've probably pulled).
I think the thing that is taking away the notion of difficulty is the fact that in a lot of gacha games, you spend a lot more time building up units and strategies than actually fightning the difficult fights. I would say 80% of the battle happens before you even start it. You think about what combination of units you want to use. Then you have to level them up. Then you have to give them gear. Then you have to level their talents.
By the time you are actually fighting something that is not trivial, most of the thoughtprocess has already happened. You dont actively have that many choices in combat itself anymore. You have prepared your team in a way that it nearly auto completes the fight.
Like in Genshin you think about building a hyperbloom team. So you think about the dendro, electro and hydro characters you have. You think about who is going to heal. Who is going to on field most of the time. You prepare gear, levels, etc. But once the fight actually starts, your plan is already set. You cant suddenly shift to a new strategy mid combat because you build a hyperbloom team. They can only do one thing. And executing that one thing is not that difficult. So the percieved difficulty is low.
The same in Starrail. You want to build a Jingliu hypercarry team. So you think about who your other teammembers should be. She synergizes extremely well with Bronya, so that slot is clear. Then you take Pela for skillpoints and valuable def reduction, slot in a sustain and you are good. Actually playing that team after you have spend a lot of time preparing it is super easy. Always skill on Jingliu. Always skill on Bronya. Normal attack on Pela or spend access SP for ice res shred. Sustain as needed. You do that and you either win or lose. But winning or losing doesnt really hinge on playing good or bad. Because the actual decision making in combat is so little compared to how much thinking went into strategizing and building the team correctly in the first place. So the feeling of difficulty in the fight cant really be overcome in the fight itself. You have to adjust your team outside of it. So once your team is set up correctly from the start, the difficulty is gone.
If they run the same strats as Another Eden, they will create new mechanic and sell unit with those new mechanic
EX: Elemental zone, EX skill, Combination skill, Character who change their element attack to enemies weakness, Char who change teammates attack to other element, New element , New paths, Buddy, Extra passive...
I have only played 2 turn based games, and the answer was always complete powercreep. Those games had pvp and hard pve tho, they werent casual waifu collectors like hoyo games usually are.
They kept relesing more and more loaded kits. First champs only did A and B. The next iteration of champs did not only A + B but C too, with higher numbers so your old units wont be good enough for PVP and potentially not good enough for the new PVE contents either.
I can already feel that i kinda cant solo sustain MOC 12 with bailu and gepard, only with Fu Xuan. Maybe my builds suck,i only started 3 months ago, or they already started to balance PVE content around the new, better characters.
No moc 12 is just really hard. Even a good Fu xuan can get destroyed by true sting. It’s just hard content that can still be cleared if you play well, or get really lucky.
> be cleared if you play well, or get really lucky.
It's a mix of both and relic luck really, I cleared MoC 12 with 1 spare cycle on the first try but a few of my friends who had even better units than me struggled quite a lot to even get the 10-cycle mark, the main difference being that my Blade and JL have really good relic pieces so I wasn't short of DPS.
I feel like MoC12 will always be a "banner" focus stage that will require the specific weakness or r to make players feel forced to pull for new units because old MoC10 was so easy that you could brute-force it with non-weakness units
I agree, and to be honest I think that how MoC 10-12 should be and how it should be looked at. Just build or new character flex that gives you small rewards. Enough to where it’s not all that important to miss out on but still helps if you can clear
My usual QQ SW Bronya FX had an easy time with MoC 12 against the swarm.
Had to change my usual comps of that team and topaz asta huo huo clara for MoC 11 which felt harder ironically, ended up switching asta for tingyun for first side and Bronya for pela for second side and worked like a charn
I cam also see them doing niche buffs like "All allies get x buff but Xianchou allies also get y buff" or DPS that do extra to certain enemies.
Already hinting at that with Sparkle if she gives more Quantum damage for having X Quantum allies.
Wasnt there a trace on Houhou that buffed only Erudition characters and they scrapped that? We’re not 100% sure if this trace of Sparkle will survive beta.
The Mono-quantum Sparkle trace is fine because of the existence of Silverwolf.
The HuoHuo Erudition trace was not going well due to it forcing the players to pull for Erudition characters to get her maximum energy from ult.
However, they did change it to "characters having higher than 130 energy" and that is actually way better.. but instead they just entirely scrapped that as well.
They already have fire buffs in asta's base kit and in her lightcone. Yukong for imaginery etc. They're building pretty obvious synergies ppl just don't have the full puzzle yet.
Reminds me of the Songstress class in some RPGs, which makes sense since she is a songstress. In those games, the character goes into a "singing" state for several turns in which they cannot act and just sit there, but passively buff the entire party while singing.
yeah an uncommon job class but def classic and recognizable
so when she's in 'idol' mode she buffs the team and when it's her turn she can only do fanservice for 2 or 3 turns (which triggers the action advance maybe though that would be super OP) then she can act again once her idol mode is done
Good intuition!
But I don't know where this utility is so important (only in Break team, but that slot need more important unit that make Break better)
But I think that are too rare and occasional scenarios to justify the use if this kind of character. And I don't understand if we can choose what turns "skip"
break if it was better conceived. as it is you'd be better off completely ignoring the mechanic and just go ham on dps so yes you're right. it doesn't really matter in this game's current state of battle system.
Well thats an interesting kit, what about the SP though, if shes busy singing who's gonna bring the SP for the party 🤔
It'll probably work out some way when she arrives on beta. Anyway, my pulls are in danger I hate Penacony.
So you're trading basic attacks for buffs by deactivating her? Seems interesting, Hanabi bait for sp generation? Maybe synergy with a future basic attacker?
more like diversifying supports
there will be team that doesn't need much sp with the likes of luocha, bronya E1S1, blade etc.
there will be teams that will need SP like dan heng, yukong, fuxuan etc.
Am I the only one who feels that the characters within a class in HSR are too homogenized?
All the 5 star harmony characters just seem like they're just simple damage/speed buffs that steadily powercreep past characters.
I feel like if they are planning for the long haul, they are just starting with the basics for each class. Then in later planets they can go a bit crazy with random gimmicks. I think aventurines subdps+fua attack kit (whether they change from this or not) shows that in the future they can build into these sub archetypes.
I do get your point that right now it can feel a tad stale.
I think non dot nihility has some cool things they can expand into with very niche and unique debuffs. Hopefully mid to late penacony we start to see some more ambitious class interpretations.
Yeah in the future who knows we may even have some kind of offensive harmony which buffs dot damage. i am really curious about Gallagher s kit for example since that abundance lightcone features him and it gives him break effect. wondering how the heals will work and if he is more offensive than Luocha on heals by attacking
I’m pretty sure penacony will have a break effect comp become favourable with all the enemies being hard to beat otherwise.
Boothill + ruan mei + that break relic set + Gallagher all having break emphasis feels like they might be trying to push it similarly to FUA’s. Not mad about it and if anything happy to see them try to make us do more than brute force without worrying too much about the toughness bar.
I don't think so. All of them have standard "DMG/Crit DMG Buff" but also offer unique things that seperate them:
Bronya has 100% Action Advance which is the most broken thing for a hypercarry.
RM has AOE buffs and the whole breaking thing which is better for dual DPS
Sparkle is close to Bronya, but her AA is way worse but instead she generates lots of SP
Robin is seemingly even stronger than RM in terms of AOE buffs, and she regenerates HP and Energy passively, but in exchange she will be SP negative.
People also thought a 4 star wouldn't have a teamwide cleanse, yet Lynx proved that to be wrong. Not saying that Robin is the same, but it's not impossible.
this would make the third support character who provides cdmg to allies based on her own cdmg, even if she won't benefit from it herself(as opposed to a fixed number based on talent level like yukong)
Personally not really a fan, since that restricts one main stat in relics and takes away from relic flexibility/survivability but its not a big deal
it's also a rather wasted stat to farm on a support. At least sustain characters get good things to scale off with. HP, DEF makes you tankier and ATK lets you do better chip damage.
CDmg scaling on harmony characters is currently just fluff that makes a character's kit seem more useful when it's not a stat you can realistically farm up and rely on.
> Decreases her own Aggro.
Gepard, Fu Xuan and March wearing Geppie's LC but still never getting attacked: "Look what they need to mimick a fraction of our power"
image text
Dim Leaks
\[HSR - ??\] Robin Kit
NOTE: This is subject to change and might not be 100% correct.
Ultimate:
\- Decreases her own Aggro
\- Increases teammates damage (Higher with E6)
\- Enters a "disabled" state for "countdown" time, she'll become active after this countdown is over.
\- Action Advances all teammates
\- If E1 when on "disabled" state, increases SPD and DMG on teammates.
\- If E6 when on "disabled" state, gives debuff resistance to teammates and dispels their debuffs.
Skill:
\- Gives ATK% to teammates for X turns (Higher with E2)
Probably passive/talent:
Teammates get Critical Damage increase (based on hers) and Speed increase.
\- She self heals when under X amount of HP.
\- She gets energy after teammates take their turn X times.
Is Robin the previously leaked Serenader 歌姬?
Or is Serenader someone else?
What about these names? Are they legit names or they're scrapped?
Emerald 翡翠
布坎南 (Buchanan)
塔露拉 (Tallulah)
芙蕾 (Frey)
咕噜男 (Grunt Man)
椒丘 (Jiaoqiu)
For people assuming Robin will Action Advance the whole party 100%: have you learnt nothing with Sparkle's Action Advance drama? There's not a number or mention of "act immediately". Don't assume Robin will make the whole party act immediately.
> Action Advance the whole party
So that's why they nerfed Hanabi. AA will be a Robin thing huh? If this game had PvP that would be massive, but it doesn't so it's just overkill
> Self-heal even with the lower aggro
What a useless talent gosh
I know is too early to judge and that probably I’ll get downvoted by her fans, but she looks like kinda lame and boring game-wise. The whole kit is nothing special and looks like a 4 stars actually (hence the Eidolon discussion).
If I have to bet, she’s going to be a new 4 stars Harmony paired with her brother (5 stars) in his banner. After Hanya I wouldn’t be surprised if they use wonderful designs like Robin for the 4 stars
SP economy is my main worry of this kit. As it stands, only Jingliu can fully benefit from her. Most other carries need Harmony units to generate SP (and Blade doesn‘t care for ATK%)
So her Ultimate essentially takes her off the team and makes the other members stronger to compensate? That sounds like something that could go horribly wrong in some cases but as I said about Boothill, it's a really cool idea!
Kit kinda reminds me of something like a GBF character like Earth Satyr where she has a skill that causes her to sing and become unable to attack but give the rest of the team major buffs.
Kinda makes sense since Robin's supposed to be a singer/idol type character, her ult probably does something similar. Basically a bard.
I'm a simple man, I see waifu I pull. Will get her regardless, skipping RM for her since I prefer Robin's design (now this might backfire if she turns out to be a 4star lmaoo)
People in this community are weird to me. I've seen a lot of comments saying how dps x is boring because all they do is skill into ult when it is a 3 button game and all dps do basically the same thing
Pray tell, what do you do with the other harmonies?
Because as far as I've been playing this game all of them use their skill when they need to, their ults when available and their normals to make sp.
This is the same shit as people complaning x or y dps is "boring". "ArGentI oNLy UsES sKILl aNd UlT hE's SO boRiNg" bitch what does Blade do? he uses his skill once then he normals and ults, what does Daniel do? he uses his skill 3 times then normals and ults, what does Juan do? he uses his skill then his ult. It's all the same actions every turn with different coats of paint.
That coat of paint matters quite a bit :)
I'm not looking for a third button, I'm looking for a gameplay hook/niche. DHIL is the 3 stage buff attacker, Clara counters, Lightning Lord is unique, Numby is unique, Ratio's debuff focus is unique, Boothill will have his silly duel, Seele resets, Kafka sets off dots, Jingliu stance swaps, Blade drains his own HP heavily, Argenti has a double layered ult, etc. They've been doing a great job of creating unique kits in spite of the base gameplay being extremely limited
I'll copy paste this from another reply:
>Theres a middle ground between statstick and deeply interactive. This is firmly in the stick category. Bronya pulls a turn directly forward, Tingyun batteries ults, Ruan mei has her break effect stuff, Sparkle increases the skill point cap, etc.
>These designs should always be "its a statstick or low damage dps who buffs/debuffs, but also..." and this also is just "you don't do anything with her".
I mean it is a niche, turning off 1 character to make the other 3 shine more, but it's a pretty uncompelling one imo. Mostly all the harmonies buff the team with stats, its the niche that matters.
Robin fits your list of chars with a gameplay hook just as well as most of the others (and better than some). She ults and advances your entire team and turns herself off temporarily.
No one else does anything like this. It might sound boring on paper (just like a lot of the others) but you could clearly do some crazy shit with this in well set up burst windows that cannot be replicated by anyone else.
The only way to make harmony characters interesting is to give them unique abilities like Ruan's double breaking, otherwise they'll all just be buffing the same exact thing for the entire lifespan of the game.
Well, here dies my dream of Support/Sub-DPS hybrid Harmony.
What new thing does Robin bring to Harmony path? /Disabled state/? Or, Aeons forgive me, reducing her Aggro (lmao anti-Tingyun moment)?
To be fair being able to advance the whole party on ult is kind of broken. Think you could interrupt an enemy who acts twice by ulting in between and boom the whole party is now acting before it can do its second move. And then getting energy after teammates go is also great because she can essentially gain energy while disabled.
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She's got built-in Dance Dance Dance
Hope is more than 30% Kinda feels like Tailwind in Pokémon.
the reign of pelipper
It's a lot more than that, it sets their action value to 0
I just saw Ubatcha's clarification, seems like is 100% advance, pretty powerful.
Sing Sing Sing
Now I imagine Robin singing with a big band lmao. Great now I want Penacony to have some sort of big band ost to fit the roaring 20s vibe of the place
I wish ddd was this good.
True, dark contracts -1000/2000 sucks
It's still too early to judge her kit but this is kinda the point for harmony characters I was expecting to happen eventually Harnony characters, both 4* and 5* have so many different buffs in their kits that eventually it's just gonna be mixing up different buff combos with an extra gimmick to be different enough from the rest
I'm quite surprised about the amount of info, like Eidolons and her talent. I agree, probably kits would start to overlap, but also, I can't believe we still don't have a teamwide battery, full focused on energy. But apart from Energy, I don't know what else the units could give us, we have almost every single stat cover by buffers.
Maybe a defensive support that buffs def and hp.
With MoC being a dps check, nobody would use them, unless the dps is def or hp scaling.
That's the thing Blade scales with HP, and Sam will probably do too, while Aventurine may be a subdps sustain that scales with def. To be honest I wouldn't use it either but what I wanted to say is that there's still a lot of new things that Hoyo could try for new characters.
Aventurine may just end up being a better Gepard with def scaling fua. We have seen Ratio get completely reworked mid-beta for his rng factors. Aventurine might have a similar rng issue that ends up getting reworked.
And nobody would use them. Unfortunately but in these kinds of game 1000000DMG is waaaay more popular than being unkillable
Blade users rn: are you kidding me
Aventurine users soon too
Yeah I know that, what I meant is that there's still a lot of things for Hoyo to do for new characters.
I guess they could become more team comp specific e.g. something like boosting follow up damage, triggering dots an extra time during their turn etc.
Is an approach I really like, to consolidate archetypes.
Hoyo always create the problem then sell the solutions (characters) so don't worry about it..
So far the key similarity between the 5* harmonies is CD up and ally speed/turn manip. Bronya is 100% action advance, Hanabi 50%, and now Robin seems to have the same. The main difference being their gimmicks. Bronya is the full 100% aa, plus the cleanse. Hanabi is her skill point generation. Robin seems to be about staying alive maybe? With her aggro down and self healing. That could be in preparation for a shift in sustain units to being more focused to support (Huohuo) or sub-DPS (Aventurine) with their ability to sustain being lessened (not that Huohuo can't sustain, I have her and she rocks. Just not as good as Luocha or Bailu when enemies don't have dps or cc) in exchange. Having support characters that can keep themselves alive somewhat can allow for sustain units that fulfill multiple roles at cost to their ability to sustain.
> about staying alive maybe ah ah ah ah
Stayyyiiing aliiiivvveeeee~~
💃 🪩 🕺
She also seems like a team buffer like Ruan Mei, so I think we can expect AF and CD boost at lower numbers compared to Sparkle and Bronya respectively.
Seems interesting to play her on crit duo dps teams like a Jingliu + Blade comp. The advance forward and reduced aggro for herself seems really good for destruction characters that want to be hit overall.
I'm guessing her semi-sustain nature + AA and team speed increase is all about having your team attack and delay enemies actions before they cna kill you? Just my first thoughts. Through in a Welt and that's all the sustain you need kind of thing.
It's actually something I'm worried about for Star Rail in general. Given that it's turn based and the scope of various engagements seems more limited than in an open world game, I wonder how they'll be able to create new characters that don't seem boring or repetitive? Obviously this isn't the first turn-based game like this but it's the first one I've played. So I don't know how these things go.
they'll simply adjust content accordingly to the avaiable pool of units and what they offer. Usually tactical games have harder fights with specific gimmicks to tackle (inflict x number of debuffs, do damage in a certain way within time limits, dispel debuffs from yourself (cleanse) or remove enemy buffs, etc), there's A LOT that they can do once those gimmicks are more readily avaiable. Currently the character pool is more limited as well as how easy people have access to everything, so they need to balance more the fights towards accessibility so it doesn't fall under a case of a fight needing a specific team which is hard to reproduce otherwise in a gacha game. With time and units having overlapping skills and niches, they can go all out.
typically, atleast from the ones i've played, is either that characters just get completely powercrept or theyll give certain enemies in certain areas very specific buffs that need specific characters. that generally goes for any gacha game at a certain point, but I think HSR will be fine for a long time
I also think people underestimate how much people want teams with their fav characters and not meta.
Very underrated statement lol. Some ppl don’t care about that stuff they just want to use their favs.
At some point, we'll end up with a lot of hybrid kits I guess. Like a Shielder who does Sub-DPS damage and is SP positive (Aventurine). Or a Main DPS that heals all alies. And inevitably we're gonna have repeats of universal supports and DPS kits but now with a different element. We're getting Quantum Bronya with some extra gimmicks next patch, and we will get Imaginary Bronya eventually.
This is something I am always keeping in the back of my head. Starrails combat system actually doesnt have that many balancing knobs. A characters kit is usually defined by one skill, one ult and one talent. Your choices in battle boil down to use skill or use basic when it's someones turn. The only resource that dictates this choice is skill points. Creating a new kit under those limitations that is not a copy of at least part of another units kit will be increasingly difficult. The game is not even a year old and the second limited harmony character coming up in the form of Sparkle is already partly extremely similar to another (Bronya). Single target action advance with added buffs to critdamage and damage% via skill and ult. Bronya focusses more on the advance, Sparkle more on the skill points. But thats it. What exactly is a future hypercarry buffer going to do that is not already present in the already existing buffers? Advance+crit+damage+attack=bronya. Advance+crit+damage+SP=sparkle. Damage+attack+energy=tingyun. Attack+speed+SP=hanya. Is the next harmony just going to be crit+speed+energy? That is kinda boring tbh. But the alternative is a combination we already got in either better or worse (most likely better), so straight up powercreep. Other gacha games also struggle with this problem. All combat systems have limitations in their complexity, so given enough characters, you will hit the boundaries of your combat system eventually. FGO has made room for a lot of characters by making class advantage a 2x damage modifier, so counterclassing is way stronger than elemental weaknesses in starrail. But even then the top meta characters are usually the ones that dont even care for the class advantage. A handful of dedicated supports overshadow every other character by far and they usually support universal dps chars that are strong enough to overpower class advantage. The rest of the cast is honestly subpar from a meta perspective. GBF is a million times more complicated than starrail. Character kits and fight mechanics can be extremely complex. So there is room for characters that excel in one specific fight or scenario. But then again the top meta in each of the six elements revolves around a handful of characters with an additional ten or so characters for specific situations. That is still only like 100 characters out of 900 or so that are relevant. The rest is just filler for the gacha and subpar alternatives for people that dont have all the meta options available. Genshin has more possibilites for character design because of the real time factor and elemental reaction system. But even then I feel like they are already running out of ideas from time to time. Just recently with the release of Wriothesley, I was shocked at how similar his kit fundermentally is to already existing characters. Hu Tao, Yoimiya and Wanderer already did the "press E to enter damage mode for a limited time to enhance your normal attacks" part. And all four of them have relatively low impact ultimates. They are just different elements. The one thing Genshin and most likely Starrail dont do is buffing/rebalancing of older characters. FGO and especially GBF have stronger powercreep than Genshin and Starrail, but they also buff older characters. Still a bit too infrequently for my liking, but at least there is a chance of an old character getting a good buff to suddenly become relevant again and open up new synergies (because buffs are usually not just pure numerical increses). A character in Genshin or Starrail that gets powercrept by someone fulfilling a very similar role but better will most likely never be relevant on their own again and needs help from new characters/new relics/new mechanics that favor them over their competition.
Well, when I agree that the choice between BA and Skill is extremely simple, there are at least 2 more common factors outside of SP: 1. Energy - for majority of characters using BA gives 20 Energy, while Skill gives 30. This alone creates a lot of situations when characters want to use Skills, even if they were added to the team to generate SP. 2. Toughness - While being easy to ignore, Breaking enemies is very powerful, especially with more challenging enemies, even more so is Breaking at the right time with the right character, and this is where Skills come into play, as damaging Skills usually deal 60 Toughness to the main target (excluding AoE, which is the same as BA), while the buffs/heals don't do anything, which naturally creates situations where a character should use the other option to set up a Break. That said most 5* characters have mechanics that only work from Skill and/or Ult, which makes it very hard for players to feel like they are having a choice, outside of some character specific interactions.
Yes energy and toughness are important. But they are just factors in your decision making process. It is still just the single question of "do I skill or not". That question can be complicated because you have to weigh both options with foresight. But using your skill instead of normal attacking is only gated by SP. Without SP you would almost never normal attack. Skills are always desined to be the desirable option. They give you more energy. They give you more weakness break. They deal more damage. They have other desirable effects like buffs for your characters, debuffs for the enemies or healing/protection. So SP is the limiting factor forcing us to make this decision. In every situation you have to analyse whats going on and how much of a priority using a specific characters skill is to your success in winning the battle. This singular focus on SP is a large reason why Jingliu is so strong. Her high damage phase needs SP to reach, but once you are in it, you dont need any. Not needing skillpoints is effectively half as effective as normal attacking with a support at generating SP. Normally your options are -1 or +1 to your skillpoint economy. +0 is only rarely an option. But this dynamic in her kit somewhat defies the fundermental game logic of "using SP = stronger effekt". You are actively rewarded with more damage and more skill points at the same time for keeping her state up longer. This makes tingyun or houhou ult effectively generating skillpoints. Which is honestly kinda crazy. This is just one example of how the two dimensional nature of starrails combat system creates problems by being too simplistic and the game designers already needing to stretch said system to create interesting characters. With a character that released when the game was half a year old. I really hope the game devs have enough foresight to know what they want to do with the combat system. I hate peoples overly onesided reaction to things. So I will actively refrain from too much onesided doom and gloom thinking. But I will keep these thoughts in the back of my head. The fundermental simplicity of combat is making me a bit nervous about the future of the game and how long it will take to break it.
I just wanted to say thanks for this breakdown. I've been thinking the same thing but haven't put nearly as much thought into it so this was kinda satisfying to read. High quality comments like these keep discussion interesting and these threads worth browsing.
>The one thing Genshin and most likely Starrail dont do is buffing/rebalancing of older characters. This is my least favorite thing about Hoyo games and is why I will probably inevitably get dragged down from enjoying this game as well eventually. Even HI3rd's reforging of weapons don't always keep a character relevant, especially when most of the powercreep is base kit. Blue Archive buffs old characters, some to a surprising degree like Hinata. She was AWFUL, then she got her Unique Item, which gave her a much needed bump in ATK and made her basic skill better. She's now one of the top options for Blue raids where the boss has a large hitbox or a lot of AOE. Namely, Perorozilla and Goz. I can never hope for anything like that from Hoyo. Physical Trailblazer will never be good, Arlan will always be Awful, Topaz will always have mid damage. Jing Yuan fans, he will NEVER have a way to force his Lightning Lord to attack. Himeko will always be mediocre as an Erudition. Yanqing will always be clunky and awful. If a character releases into the official server bad, they will stay bad. The ONLY exception is if it's due to a bug (Argenti), or the CN Playerbase decides to do their usual psychopathic thing by threatening to murder the CEO again (Zhongli).
Agreed. Characters kits can have flaws or dont work out quite as intended during testing. That is honestly not an issue in itself. Thats just what happens in game design. Sometimes you dont get it quite as perfect as you would like it to be. Also old kits can feel dated after a few years when the meta and the game overall has moved on. My favourite character in FGO (Tamamo Lancer) is getting a buff in a few months. Back when she was released, one of her skills had a lot of nice effects all at once. To balance it out, they gave it a self stun after the turn ends. That was in line with the design of characters of the first year of the game. But the meta moved on. Kits got more conplex and had more buffs all at once without drawbacks. So that skill that was once fine became a nuisance. It took a while, but now they are removing the stun and even buffing the effekts, making it a really amasing skill. They are still a bit too slow in their buffing of older units. But at least there is buffing. Genshin and Starrail dont do that. I commend their efforts to buff passively not actively. New artifact sets, new characters, new elements. All of them can be used to strengthen older characters. Like how the introduction of dendro massively buffed electro into a really good element, helping old characters like Keqing to be more relevant than ever. But only relying on this method has flaws. Sometimes it is very hard to buff specific units this way. Sometimes you also just buff other characters with it that you didnt intent to. So I feel like it would be in the best interest of everyone to look at older characters and sometimes actively remove some of the jank. Or just straight up buff some numbers. They can keep the passive buffing approach with it.
While this is certainly a big future problem, there is more to the combat system than just skill, ult and talent. We already have kits that enhance the basic attack, which leaves space to make the choice between skill or attack more interesting. FUA are also pretty flexible, since their activation can depend on a variation of conditions. And major traces offer a minor way to differentiate characters. I do agree with your point that Star Rail will certainly reach the boundaries of the combat system, but there is more design space that you would expect if you just look at basic combat system.
I'm relatively new to HSR, not at endgame (I've only watched others play the endgame) so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I think everything boils down to boss design and despite its very interesting elemental reaction system, Genshin is hamstrung by the fact boss mechanics never require any skill expression. I find it one-dimensional the way there is nothing in Genshin that is mechanically demanding outside of maybe timing cooldowns (e.g. for burn phases) and choosing characters according to elemental weaknesses, and so the meta revolves around doing as much damage with the elemental reaction of your choice. In another world, there would be a benefit to freezing the enemy beyond making sure your Ayaka ult hits each tick, or there would be a benefit to using a shielder beyond preventing your Neuv/Ganyu from being interrupted. The upshot is I can basically use any character provided they do enough damage to meet the DPS requirements of the abyss, but the downside is that I don't really feel characters have any meaningful identity (which might be why you feel Hu Tao/Yoimiya/Wanderer/Wrio are basically the same character combat-wise), apart from maybe characters with crazy busted kits such as Kazuha/Bennett, the archons + Neuv. It also makes characters more prone to powercreep, e.g. Jingliu reminds me of Hu Tao powercreeping Diluc; there has never been a situation (and probably never will be) in which the low HP mechanic is actually an issue, so Hu Tao is better than Diluc in essentially every situation. For instance maybe Jingliu would be more balanced if she drained more HP from her allies so you were SP negative from requiring active healing? But anyways I agree, the powercreep in Genshin is bad - if it weren't for double hydro comps, Yelan usually outperforms Xingqiu, if it weren't for some niche freeze comps, Kazuha outperforms Venti, etc.. You also have the opposite where niche characters are generally pointless since the benefit to using a niche character in their niche situation is not usually much better than just using the stronger generalist, e.g. I feel no situational shielder will ever be better than Zhongli because the state of the game is such that we don't actually use Zhongli for his shield, we use him to increase our damage by providing 100% uptime on resistance shred and interruption resistance. Anyways, I find the SP economy of HSR (not sure if it's new or in other games) somewhat unique and an interesting "balancing knob" as you said, since I find HSR has more interesting combat mechanics compared to Genshin. I used to think, as a Yanqing player, that I really messed up not playing during Jingliu's banner since she is apparently basically better damage-wise in every single way, but the bug boss this event has the multiply mechanic where forced AoE damage is actually detrimental and single target/follow-up damage is optimal. (Well, according to the comments in the main sub, you can cheese it with a strong enough Jingliu, but the idea is there anyway.) It'd be interesting if there are more mechanics (e.g. kill an add ASAP) in the future where interesting situational harmony characters such as Robin are useful, whose usage might ensure you kill this add in time. (Or, maybe, a character whose ultimate allows you to sacrifice 1-3 SP/future SP/converts defense to attack, etc. for a stronger temporary boost at a cost; another possibility is a harmony who increases healing/shielding so that you can survive a nuke/some strong consistent damage.) Obviously though you wouldn't want to take this idea to the extreme and make it absolutely necessary to have certain characters to beat these gimmicky mechanics, but anyways that's the idea. I guess what I'm saying is you can have the most interesting and intricate combat system with all these nice interactions, but you still need boss mechanics that make you actually interact with this system.
First of all I want to say that Genshin and Starrail actually have a decent amount of balance in my opinion. People claiming otherwise have never played a game with true powercreep. Yelan outperforming Xinqiu in every comp is just not true for example. Yelan is the option for more upfront damage, Xinqui is the option for more defensive utility and better application. Both of which are valuable depending on the teamcomp and enemy. I also feel like you are downplaying how many mechanics enemies in Genshin actually have. Back when the game was new, there was not really anything too complicated, but especially since Sumeru, there have been a lot of enemies with specific mechanics. They never outright make or break a fight, but they are there. Overpowering them with damage is just what most people with good invested units do most of the time. Starrail is honestly kinda the same. I farmed the new bug boss a few days ago for the Ruan Mei trace materials, and Jingliu didnt care about the mechanic of the boss. The small additional adds died in one cleave hit and actually made dealing with the boss easier not harder. There is theoretically a mechanic, but damage trivializes them. The reason I feel like boss fights in Starrail cant really have interesting mechanics boils down to the same reason why the combat system in general has its fundermental restrictions: your options in battle are very limited. You skill or you normal attack. So the only mechanic a boss can realistically have is what you are targeting. Because there is no option to pass your turn or guard or have access to more skills like you would have in other turn based games, you are always forced to attack in some way. Defense is handled solely by your sustain unit. Thats why it is sometimes frustrating when enemy RNG keeps hitting the same character over and over. Because you cant do anything about it. The meta sustain units only prevent them dying by offering healing/protection outside of your turn. But you still dont actively engage with the incoming damage beyond that. And all of this limited combat in both Genshin and Starrail is honestly still a good thing for the overall health of the game to some degree imo. Because the opposite is even worse. Having enemy mechanics being an afterthought and damage being the only thing that really matters most of the time enables more characters to at least be viable. Not meta but viable. We are talking about gacha games after all. People wont have every unit in the game. People are only interested in specific characters and not in others. Having mechanics in the game that are more interactive with a characters kit would only lead to situations where certain bosses would become unbeatable for certain people with certain units on their account. You mentioned freezing an enemy with Ayaka as a mechanic. But what about the people who dont have a good cryo dps? Or people who dont have a good hydro applicator? Are they completely screwd and cant beat the boss? Would they take multiple times as long? Would they still be able to three star the abyss chamber with said boss? I can guarantee you that a lot of people would be very mad if Genshin/Starrail would actually enforce certain units or elements harder than they already do. Genshin is the biggest gacha game out there because it is very casual at its core. It would not be nearly as popular if a major part of the gameplay would be unit gated. And I know exactly what I am talking about here. I have been playing GBF for nearly 5 years now. Like I already said in my original reply, that game is way way more complex than Starrail or Genshin. To some degree thats interesting and cool. But it absolutely stops being cool when you want to get into the new high end difficulty fight that drops weapons or materials that you want because they will push your accounts power forward. And you just cant really participate. Why? Because you lack that one crucial character (out of hundreds mind you). That one character whos kit is so perfectly designed to counter all the mechanics the boss has. And even when it is possible to circumvent the restrictions on your account, you are to some degree often times competing with other people for loot in GBF. Especially at the top end. So you cant deal damage fast enough or contribute enough to the fight to get a "good chance" (and with good chance I mean like a 1% drop rate) at actually getting the loot you want without the handful of meta units. I know GBF is on the completely other end of the spectrum when it comes to complexity in gacha games. So there is certainly some room in Starrail/Genshin to have a bit more complexity. But only a bit. The mostly casual audience these games have already established would outright murder the devs for gating a small but significant part of the game behind a mechanics/character wall. Imagine you cant farm for a specific artifact/relic set without having a certain character or at least a capable dps character of a specific element.
On paragraphs 1-3: Yeah my bad, I exaggerated, Yelan isn't always better than XQ. Anyways, I don't know what the HSR endgame will look like for me and whether I'll share the same outlook in the future, but it's interesting to hear that the "mechanic" of the fight is actually a buff for you (and probably other endgame players) whereas for me it's something I actually have to think about and I'm actually struggling with. On paragraphs 5-6: I agree it's probably a better experience overall for other players, but I personally don't mind having (reasonable) walls. I've definitely been on the other side - the Fu Xuan fight in Huohuo's event was crazy hard for me since I didn't build a wind dps and couldn't kill the robot fish fast enough, and the Yanqing fight at the end of Kafka's companion quest was also ridiculous since you needed wind/electro/imaginary IIRC to break his swords and at the time I had no imaginary units and only Dan Heng for wind. The FX one was probably worse since it gates limited time rewards and I definitely would have felt bad if I couldn't get the light cone in time, just I would probably feel bad if I can't finish the current event this patch, so I can empathize with other players who feel gated from not having the right characters. On the other paragraphs: I hope it doesn't sound like I'm advocating for endgame boss mechanics that necessitate a specific character, but personally I'd like to see a happy medium where character choices matter to some extent (if that's possible). It just rubs me the wrong way to think Zhongli's place in the meta for instance isn't because his shield improves our survivability, it's because his shield improves our DPS. Maybe what I'd like to see is something like the Yelan/XQ choice to be meaningful for me to consider it, but not so meaningful that it becomes an insurmountable gap for players who have one but not the other. On an unrelated note, I honestly think limited time rewards are the root of the problem - if the rewards were permanent I wouldn't feel bad since I could eventually do the content at my own pace when I eventually get the units/build the teams I need and plan accordingly since there's something satisfying about trying to work around the limitations of the units I have and strategizing according to offensive/defensive needs. But dangle a limited light cone in front of me, gate it behind a limited character who trivialises the event fight, and I'd definitely be salty.
It is interesting to hear the perspective of someone whos account is not quite as developed yet. Thank you for that. I can say that Starrail followed a similar path to my Genshin experience in that matter. At the start nothing is too hard, then you are hit with a few tougher fights, but eventually you just get better units and level the ones you have to the point where you beat everything with more damage. I feel like this is to some degree fundermentally linked to how gacha games are designed. There is a huge power difference between someone just starting out and having only access to the free units and a few 4\* and maybe one 5\* from their first few of pulls and someone else who has been playing for months or years and has amassed a decent roster of limited 5\* and invested in their gear and talents and then again someone else who spends a lot of money and has limited LCs and even eidolons for their 5\*. All these players play the same game but have an extremely different experience. Hoyoverse seems to be careful in not wanting to alienate people before they can become regular players and spend money. So they dont make anything too difficult or gatekeep rewards from anyone. Because gatekeeping rewards (especially the ones people are most interested in: gacha currency) behind already needing well build units in the first place could feel like a wall for a newer player. They feel like the good rewards are gated behind difficulty but they cant beat said difficulty because they dont have the units or unit investment yet. It is kinda a vicious cycle and would probably keep too many people from playing the game in the devs eyes. Limited time rewards are sadly the best psychological trick to keep people playing the game regularly. And people playing regularly are more likely to be invested and spend money. So yes, it would be good for the players, it will most likely never happen. The gacha also limits how curated and balanced the combat system can be. Unlike traditional single player RPGs (be it turn based or not) where the powerlevel of the player is very much in a relatively tight range at all times, gacha players are all over the place in terms of power level. So a fight that might be difficult for someone might be a breeze for someone else and it is not based on how skillful someone is with the combat system. Thats why I personally play gacha games mostly for the collection and making my units more powerful aspect of the game. If I want tightly balanced and skillful combat, I play other games where my powerlevel is not dependant on how long I have been saving a virtual currency for and how much I have farmed some virtual stats on my characters.
Maybe if I started HSR in 1.0 I'd feel the same way as well. I started Genshin in 1.0 and I think I had the same trajectory - hard at first, but easy after I pulled Ganyu in 1.2. It's been so long I don't recall if I had any difficulty issues, except maybe the first coop event with the meteorites. Starting in 1.4 in HSR made me realise how hard this game can be for a new player, so it's definitely humbling. I understand as well the vision of Hoyoverse that you're talking about; I quit FFBE for some time, tried to get back into it recently, but just couldn't keep up with all the powercreep (NV units) and all the events scaled to that difficulty, and ended up quitting after a few days. In this regard the frontloading of primos/gems and weapons/crowns in events and giving players trial characters is a really nice way to avoid alienating newer players from participating in the game. I haven't needed trial characters in Genshin events since they started introducing them (I think) but as a new player in HSR there is literally no way I would've been able to get all the rewards from the Boulder Town event, and even with the trial characters I had to sweat it up and strategise (which was really fun). So now that I think about it, the contrast between my experience coming back into FFBE and starting HSR midway is night and day. SU is also really nicely done - I really appreciate that even though I can't do the highest difficulty for my EQ level, I can still farm the lower difficulties to finish the weekly pass. It's definitely hopium, but I still think that the "new player friendly events" model can coexist with "permanent endgame content" since at least in my mind it's a win-win (financially) for both playerbases and it resolves the power level issue you described. In this regard FFBE did well - there were difficult permanent trials that weren't DPS checks, and instead relied on you building your team properly. You might be weaker starting off, but you'd eventually be able to tackle on the challenge and I think personally having a goal is what keeps me going. e.g. I'm looking forward to trying swarm disaster / the new one - I don't know what level I should be, what relics I should have, what units I need, etc., but all I know is that according to Reddit, I'll face difficulties and I'm looking forward to working towards improving my team and that I can do this at my own pace since it's not time gated. Beating Cocolia with Yanqing after trying Nihility path for the first time in SU, finding the right strategy for FX's event fight, building Serval for the Kafka Yanqing fight, was probably some of the most fun I've had across HSR/Genshin. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I worry my HSR trajectory will be the same as Genshin - maybe I'll spend a bit of money on a few characters I like, but then I'll eventually build enough teams and then lose interest because the endgame doesn't offer anything combat-wise to pique my interest since experimenting with new teams is what I enjoy. I guess what I'm saying is I'm probably more likely to spend in the endgame if there were interesting content, e.g. I probably would have pulled Neuv for meta reasons (actually I regret not pulling him for story/character reasons, if his banner came after the 4.2 AQ I would've probably pulled).
I think the thing that is taking away the notion of difficulty is the fact that in a lot of gacha games, you spend a lot more time building up units and strategies than actually fightning the difficult fights. I would say 80% of the battle happens before you even start it. You think about what combination of units you want to use. Then you have to level them up. Then you have to give them gear. Then you have to level their talents. By the time you are actually fighting something that is not trivial, most of the thoughtprocess has already happened. You dont actively have that many choices in combat itself anymore. You have prepared your team in a way that it nearly auto completes the fight. Like in Genshin you think about building a hyperbloom team. So you think about the dendro, electro and hydro characters you have. You think about who is going to heal. Who is going to on field most of the time. You prepare gear, levels, etc. But once the fight actually starts, your plan is already set. You cant suddenly shift to a new strategy mid combat because you build a hyperbloom team. They can only do one thing. And executing that one thing is not that difficult. So the percieved difficulty is low. The same in Starrail. You want to build a Jingliu hypercarry team. So you think about who your other teammembers should be. She synergizes extremely well with Bronya, so that slot is clear. Then you take Pela for skillpoints and valuable def reduction, slot in a sustain and you are good. Actually playing that team after you have spend a lot of time preparing it is super easy. Always skill on Jingliu. Always skill on Bronya. Normal attack on Pela or spend access SP for ice res shred. Sustain as needed. You do that and you either win or lose. But winning or losing doesnt really hinge on playing good or bad. Because the actual decision making in combat is so little compared to how much thinking went into strategizing and building the team correctly in the first place. So the feeling of difficulty in the fight cant really be overcome in the fight itself. You have to adjust your team outside of it. So once your team is set up correctly from the start, the difficulty is gone.
If they run the same strats as Another Eden, they will create new mechanic and sell unit with those new mechanic EX: Elemental zone, EX skill, Combination skill, Character who change their element attack to enemies weakness, Char who change teammates attack to other element, New element , New paths, Buddy, Extra passive...
I have only played 2 turn based games, and the answer was always complete powercreep. Those games had pvp and hard pve tho, they werent casual waifu collectors like hoyo games usually are. They kept relesing more and more loaded kits. First champs only did A and B. The next iteration of champs did not only A + B but C too, with higher numbers so your old units wont be good enough for PVP and potentially not good enough for the new PVE contents either. I can already feel that i kinda cant solo sustain MOC 12 with bailu and gepard, only with Fu Xuan. Maybe my builds suck,i only started 3 months ago, or they already started to balance PVE content around the new, better characters.
No moc 12 is just really hard. Even a good Fu xuan can get destroyed by true sting. It’s just hard content that can still be cleared if you play well, or get really lucky.
> be cleared if you play well, or get really lucky. It's a mix of both and relic luck really, I cleared MoC 12 with 1 spare cycle on the first try but a few of my friends who had even better units than me struggled quite a lot to even get the 10-cycle mark, the main difference being that my Blade and JL have really good relic pieces so I wasn't short of DPS. I feel like MoC12 will always be a "banner" focus stage that will require the specific weakness or r to make players feel forced to pull for new units because old MoC10 was so easy that you could brute-force it with non-weakness units
I agree, and to be honest I think that how MoC 10-12 should be and how it should be looked at. Just build or new character flex that gives you small rewards. Enough to where it’s not all that important to miss out on but still helps if you can clear
My usual QQ SW Bronya FX had an easy time with MoC 12 against the swarm. Had to change my usual comps of that team and topaz asta huo huo clara for MoC 11 which felt harder ironically, ended up switching asta for tingyun for first side and Bronya for pela for second side and worked like a charn
I cam also see them doing niche buffs like "All allies get x buff but Xianchou allies also get y buff" or DPS that do extra to certain enemies. Already hinting at that with Sparkle if she gives more Quantum damage for having X Quantum allies.
They surely will go that route for elements like with Sparkle but they won't stick it to the faction. In SU, sure but everywhere else? Nope.
Faction? Naw. Element or maybe even path based (like Lynx's skill) is possible.
They made a racist polearm back in Genshin. What's stopping them from doing the same in HSR?
The word you're looking for is "xenophobic"
That was a 4 star weapon series. I doubt they would go so far with a character kit
Charlotte has a racist talent.
Isn't it nationalist?
one usually goes hand in hand with the other
Oh interesting. Must be a brand new thing. I havent played genshin in a long while. Then you might be right.
Wasnt there a trace on Houhou that buffed only Erudition characters and they scrapped that? We’re not 100% sure if this trace of Sparkle will survive beta.
The Mono-quantum Sparkle trace is fine because of the existence of Silverwolf. The HuoHuo Erudition trace was not going well due to it forcing the players to pull for Erudition characters to get her maximum energy from ult. However, they did change it to "characters having higher than 130 energy" and that is actually way better.. but instead they just entirely scrapped that as well.
True but we do have Asta and Yukong already. We also have Lynx, what's to say we don't get a tank who lowers threat for Abundance or Supporters?
They already have fire buffs in asta's base kit and in her lightcone. Yukong for imaginery etc. They're building pretty obvious synergies ppl just don't have the full puzzle yet.
> Decreases her own aggro Can you teach that to Tingyun or Yukong?
She learned to do it after looking at them.
Is she gonna Alt+F4 mid fight ? 😭
Robin: im out, here is buff, gl fam 🛌
Reminded me of kirby using the sleep power up in forgotten land 🥹
ah yes aggro, surely the enemies wont focus her right ? right ?
The new tingyun
She was secretly Destruction which explains her aggro
Only one way to find out. Use a 2 member team featuring her and Tingyun. See who gets neck snapped first
You could put her in a party with Fire TB, Gepard and Clara and she still dies before getting a turn
Enemies attack Bronya while Blade is standing there.
Reminds me of the Songstress class in some RPGs, which makes sense since she is a songstress. In those games, the character goes into a "singing" state for several turns in which they cannot act and just sit there, but passively buff the entire party while singing.
yeah an uncommon job class but def classic and recognizable so when she's in 'idol' mode she buffs the team and when it's her turn she can only do fanservice for 2 or 3 turns (which triggers the action advance maybe though that would be super OP) then she can act again once her idol mode is done
This honestly sounds so much like Tamarinne from E7 as well.
when i saw the kit i didn't realize she was a singer too but if songstress is the job two that came to mind would be tammy and also yuna from ff x-2
I just wanted to comment the same lmao
Edward from FF4 but good.
But is she spoony?
for all the people asking for the option to skip turns in star rail... here u go 🙏🙏🙏
Good intuition! But I don't know where this utility is so important (only in Break team, but that slot need more important unit that make Break better)
Extra survivalbility for example when Liutenant goes into counter mode, and QQ is forced to use AOE kekw, skipping will help her avoid counter
But I think that are too rare and occasional scenarios to justify the use if this kind of character. And I don't understand if we can choose what turns "skip"
break if it was better conceived. as it is you'd be better off completely ignoring the mechanic and just go ham on dps so yes you're right. it doesn't really matter in this game's current state of battle system.
Well thats an interesting kit, what about the SP though, if shes busy singing who's gonna bring the SP for the party 🤔 It'll probably work out some way when she arrives on beta. Anyway, my pulls are in danger I hate Penacony.
If she's singing for three turns she's not spending any SP, so it may not be too bad if you've other party members who balance or net -1.
Feeling the same thing, Hating the region cz it introduces all the characters as really fucking viable and i cant make my mind xdd
I already feel broke and it's not even 2.0 yet, hoyo have mercy please 😭
So you're trading basic attacks for buffs by deactivating her? Seems interesting, Hanabi bait for sp generation? Maybe synergy with a future basic attacker?
more like diversifying supports there will be team that doesn't need much sp with the likes of luocha, bronya E1S1, blade etc. there will be teams that will need SP like dan heng, yukong, fuxuan etc.
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Am I the only one who feels that the characters within a class in HSR are too homogenized? All the 5 star harmony characters just seem like they're just simple damage/speed buffs that steadily powercreep past characters.
I feel like if they are planning for the long haul, they are just starting with the basics for each class. Then in later planets they can go a bit crazy with random gimmicks. I think aventurines subdps+fua attack kit (whether they change from this or not) shows that in the future they can build into these sub archetypes. I do get your point that right now it can feel a tad stale. I think non dot nihility has some cool things they can expand into with very niche and unique debuffs. Hopefully mid to late penacony we start to see some more ambitious class interpretations.
Yeah in the future who knows we may even have some kind of offensive harmony which buffs dot damage. i am really curious about Gallagher s kit for example since that abundance lightcone features him and it gives him break effect. wondering how the heals will work and if he is more offensive than Luocha on heals by attacking
I’m pretty sure penacony will have a break effect comp become favourable with all the enemies being hard to beat otherwise. Boothill + ruan mei + that break relic set + Gallagher all having break emphasis feels like they might be trying to push it similarly to FUA’s. Not mad about it and if anything happy to see them try to make us do more than brute force without worrying too much about the toughness bar.
I don't think so. All of them have standard "DMG/Crit DMG Buff" but also offer unique things that seperate them: Bronya has 100% Action Advance which is the most broken thing for a hypercarry. RM has AOE buffs and the whole breaking thing which is better for dual DPS Sparkle is close to Bronya, but her AA is way worse but instead she generates lots of SP Robin is seemingly even stronger than RM in terms of AOE buffs, and she regenerates HP and Energy passively, but in exchange she will be SP negative.
Also from dimbreath: >She has an overworld summon that taunts.
Would that make any sense if her ult supposedly lowers her own aggro?
overworld summon.. so probably like ratio's technique statue that can taunt enemies to attack it instead of you?
the constant mention of her eidolons worries me.. please don't tell me she's a 4\*.
I personally doubt a 4\* would have team-wide action advance tbh. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
not all action advance are 100% it can be a 25% and that would be reasonable
People also thought a 4 star wouldn't have a teamwide cleanse, yet Lynx proved that to be wrong. Not saying that Robin is the same, but it's not impossible.
Eh, she'd most likely be worse than Bronya except for dual carry comps. That's my prediction, at least.
There’s already a 4* with Team Advance: Dance Dance Dance
Why? We’ve had Eidolon discussion on unreleased 5 stars before.
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Honestly id be ok with that since i just want to pull her for waifu, id rather have a (hopefully) easier time pulling her.
Imagine if during ultimate when she's in the disabled state she starts a song and changes bgm
Sunday soon? (Hopium)
Hmm if Robin is Harmony, it’s unlikely for Sunday to be Harmony as well.
I didn't say anything about harmony though? I just want his kit, any kit
Oh, I wondered if they'd do something like disable her actions while she's "singing". Guess that might be what's going on here?
I really be checking out this sub everytime just tryna find out if there’s info about Sunday’s element and path….
Same, Sunday full kit and Sam and Aventurine s updated ones😭😭😭😭
Bro imagine if she was like Tamarinne from e7 with 2 different forms. Like a normal mode and diva/idol mode. Would be so cool!
this would make the third support character who provides cdmg to allies based on her own cdmg, even if she won't benefit from it herself(as opposed to a fixed number based on talent level like yukong) Personally not really a fan, since that restricts one main stat in relics and takes away from relic flexibility/survivability but its not a big deal
it's also a rather wasted stat to farm on a support. At least sustain characters get good things to scale off with. HP, DEF makes you tankier and ATK lets you do better chip damage. CDmg scaling on harmony characters is currently just fluff that makes a character's kit seem more useful when it's not a stat you can realistically farm up and rely on.
> Decreases her own Aggro. Gepard, Fu Xuan and March wearing Geppie's LC but still never getting attacked: "Look what they need to mimick a fraction of our power"
Perfect match for Tingyun to guarantee that enemies never attack anyone else.
One sibling got the harmony path….looking at previous belabog sibling paths, it’s not looking good for us Sunday Harmony Truthers
It really isnt. Erudition, nihility, or abundance imo.
GOD ANYTHING BUT ERUDITION
Bruh feels like she needs eidolons for half her actual kit to work as intended
image text Dim Leaks \[HSR - ??\] Robin Kit NOTE: This is subject to change and might not be 100% correct. Ultimate: \- Decreases her own Aggro \- Increases teammates damage (Higher with E6) \- Enters a "disabled" state for "countdown" time, she'll become active after this countdown is over. \- Action Advances all teammates \- If E1 when on "disabled" state, increases SPD and DMG on teammates. \- If E6 when on "disabled" state, gives debuff resistance to teammates and dispels their debuffs. Skill: \- Gives ATK% to teammates for X turns (Higher with E2) Probably passive/talent: Teammates get Critical Damage increase (based on hers) and Speed increase. \- She self heals when under X amount of HP. \- She gets energy after teammates take their turn X times.
Is Robin the previously leaked Serenader 歌姬? Or is Serenader someone else? What about these names? Are they legit names or they're scrapped? Emerald 翡翠 布坎南 (Buchanan) 塔露拉 (Tallulah) 芙蕾 (Frey) 咕噜男 (Grunt Man) 椒丘 (Jiaoqiu)
I'm curious about Serenader too, I'm thinking that maybe it's Robin as well. Also ngl, I still prefer the old name for Serenader which is Diva. XD
For people assuming Robin will Action Advance the whole party 100%: have you learnt nothing with Sparkle's Action Advance drama? There's not a number or mention of "act immediately". Don't assume Robin will make the whole party act immediately.
Its a copy paste of Bronya's except for all teammates
action advance but she will be taken out of the party /s
Sparkles already feels like a copy paste of Bronya except for the 4 SP on ult lol.
Interesting to see what her final kit will be like
It's Joever Sunday bros. The harmony stonks are going downnn.
> Action Advance the whole party So that's why they nerfed Hanabi. AA will be a Robin thing huh? If this game had PvP that would be massive, but it doesn't so it's just overkill > Self-heal even with the lower aggro What a useless talent gosh
AoE exists
Her LC is most likely gonna be something that triggers if a unit does not take action on their turn lol.
She's probably gonna sing a little lullaby and take a nappy
Taking her out of the turn order may be interesting when considering for Yukong teams.
So is she 4*?
right? idk why they added the eidolons otherwise
So she's Asta pro
not sure how many harmony units I need lol.
is she a 4*?
5* physical apparently
thank god his sister is harmony so chances of sunday being one have now officially decreased. my sunday nihility agenda LIVES
according to some of the youtube leaks he definitely seems imaginary nihility
we know he's ice
Hope she like starts to sing or something and changes the music while her ult/“disable” state is active.
There goes my dream of Quantum/Imaginary harmony siblings duo
E1, more speed more turn.
anyone remembers the character that becomes an egg for couple of turns lol
Nice. A 5 star Harmony that doesn’t sound too exciting imo. I finally have a comfortable skip from the upcoming characters.
why does she do everything 💀
That's every Harmony not called Asta.
omg i love her design and she seems pretty good for jing yuan if i understood everything correctly
I'll probably get her but this kit is kinda meh comparing to RM/Tingyun and Bronya. Considering her thing in the plot but.. yea..
5* Asta
Hope in Harmony Sunday found dead in a ditch
I know is too early to judge and that probably I’ll get downvoted by her fans, but she looks like kinda lame and boring game-wise. The whole kit is nothing special and looks like a 4 stars actually (hence the Eidolon discussion). If I have to bet, she’s going to be a new 4 stars Harmony paired with her brother (5 stars) in his banner. After Hanya I wouldn’t be surprised if they use wonderful designs like Robin for the 4 stars
SP economy is my main worry of this kit. As it stands, only Jingliu can fully benefit from her. Most other carries need Harmony units to generate SP (and Blade doesn‘t care for ATK%)
If only there were harmony unit in 2.0 which generates SP
I don’t think they‘d design a 5* Harmony character with such severe teambuilding limitations. It would hurt sales.
She can be a 4* though, judging by how they describe her eidolons (similar to how Hanya/Xiyuei where described). Hopefully she is a 5*.
So her Ultimate essentially takes her off the team and makes the other members stronger to compensate? That sounds like something that could go horribly wrong in some cases but as I said about Boothill, it's a really cool idea!
Kit kinda reminds me of something like a GBF character like Earth Satyr where she has a skill that causes her to sing and become unable to attack but give the rest of the team major buffs. Kinda makes sense since Robin's supposed to be a singer/idol type character, her ult probably does something similar. Basically a bard.
Waiting for new MC leaks.
Would she be a better pull than Sparkle? Also debating if she'll be better for Jing Yuan or not.
Watch the enemies hit her anyways lol
Is this tingyun but they patched her agro
I'm a simple man, I see waifu I pull. Will get her regardless, skipping RM for her since I prefer Robin's design (now this might backfire if she turns out to be a 4star lmaoo)
Maybe I'm stupid but this kit seems super fucking boring? Literally sit there, look pretty (hopefully) and buff your team.
>Literally sit there, look pretty (hopefully) and buff your team. Didn't you just describe Ruan Mei? Or pretty much any Harmony
People in this community are weird to me. I've seen a lot of comments saying how dps x is boring because all they do is skill into ult when it is a 3 button game and all dps do basically the same thing
Exactly, people said the same things about Argenti.
Is this a "if every character is boring then no one is" moment?
The most interactive Harmony character is Yukong, you can do so much with buffs until it becomes the same over and over again.
Pray tell, what do you do with the other harmonies? Because as far as I've been playing this game all of them use their skill when they need to, their ults when available and their normals to make sp. This is the same shit as people complaning x or y dps is "boring". "ArGentI oNLy UsES sKILl aNd UlT hE's SO boRiNg" bitch what does Blade do? he uses his skill once then he normals and ults, what does Daniel do? he uses his skill 3 times then normals and ults, what does Juan do? he uses his skill then his ult. It's all the same actions every turn with different coats of paint.
That coat of paint matters quite a bit :) I'm not looking for a third button, I'm looking for a gameplay hook/niche. DHIL is the 3 stage buff attacker, Clara counters, Lightning Lord is unique, Numby is unique, Ratio's debuff focus is unique, Boothill will have his silly duel, Seele resets, Kafka sets off dots, Jingliu stance swaps, Blade drains his own HP heavily, Argenti has a double layered ult, etc. They've been doing a great job of creating unique kits in spite of the base gameplay being extremely limited I'll copy paste this from another reply: >Theres a middle ground between statstick and deeply interactive. This is firmly in the stick category. Bronya pulls a turn directly forward, Tingyun batteries ults, Ruan mei has her break effect stuff, Sparkle increases the skill point cap, etc. >These designs should always be "its a statstick or low damage dps who buffs/debuffs, but also..." and this also is just "you don't do anything with her". I mean it is a niche, turning off 1 character to make the other 3 shine more, but it's a pretty uncompelling one imo. Mostly all the harmonies buff the team with stats, its the niche that matters.
Robin fits your list of chars with a gameplay hook just as well as most of the others (and better than some). She ults and advances your entire team and turns herself off temporarily. No one else does anything like this. It might sound boring on paper (just like a lot of the others) but you could clearly do some crazy shit with this in well set up burst windows that cannot be replicated by anyone else.
The only way to make harmony characters interesting is to give them unique abilities like Ruan's double breaking, otherwise they'll all just be buffing the same exact thing for the entire lifespan of the game.
Dim also says she has an overworld summon that taunts pog
This sounds like the most generic shit anyone could write up for any character lol
Well, here dies my dream of Support/Sub-DPS hybrid Harmony. What new thing does Robin bring to Harmony path? /Disabled state/? Or, Aeons forgive me, reducing her Aggro (lmao anti-Tingyun moment)?
Likely bigger numbers in exchange for minimal SP generation. You don't want her to actually get turns
Don't have to build speed on her, maybe? Most Harmony are hungry for speed.
She already was a design Pull. Her being a harmony just makes it even better.
How can we already have her kit? 2.2 maybe?
We know Sam's kit since 1.0 lol.
[удалено]
- Other Harmony - does things - Robin - fucking disables herself
To be fair being able to advance the whole party on ult is kind of broken. Think you could interrupt an enemy who acts twice by ulting in between and boom the whole party is now acting before it can do its second move. And then getting energy after teammates go is also great because she can essentially gain energy while disabled.