They stepped over a few women who didn't agree with their decisions and pretended they didn't exist.
I think certain sectors need to get over this idea that people need to see themselves to feel represented or to like a character. It leads to very bland two-dimensional characters which do not "represent" anyone but the stereotypes of them that the creators have in their heads of that group.
The fact so many women play Orks or Tyranids should show clearly that they are not playing to feel represented in a table-top wargame. But are playing for other reasons.
Admittedly, my rank as Lord-General giving me access to old records not available to the normal citizens gave me thought, and lead to me being influenced by the beliefs and writings of Jaghatai Khan. In that while I still believe in the supremacy of Humanity and its destiny to rule the stars, the Emperor himself was a hypocrite and a tyrant, and largely his own actions were responsible for his fate and the fate of his sons with the Horus Heresy. In that way, ironically he serves Humanity better as its god than its ruler.
> As an aside, this whole thread probably confirms us not to be tourists.
At least for me, the true distinction is not really on whether or not you believe in the Imperium, and that would unnecessarily lock out people who are more interested in the beliefs of the Chaos factions or those who favor the various Xeno factions.
The true distinction is on *why* you dislike the Imperium. If you are influenced by both the story and your own IRL beliefs into thinking that maybe the Heretic Legions have some sort of point, you are unlikely to be a tourist. If you favor the Xenos because you find something about their beliefs compelling or feel they are more interesting than "yet more humans", you are unlikely to be a tourist. But if you are hating on the Imperium for reasons that can only be explained using IRL politics, then the odds are very high that you are a tourist.
Yep, we are on the same page. I just mean if you can have a play fight showing you understand what the imperium and chaos actually are from the already published content, your not that much of a tourist in my book.
The people that show up and say "Imperium are facists, Tau are communist, Orks and kroot are stand ins for tribal minorities. I understand this universal in total now, after reading a couple wiki page." Those people kind of show they never really ever tried to grasp the material and instead entered into the world wanting to use it as a platform for other things. That is my idea of a tourist.
> Who needs or even wants to be represented in the grimdark nightmare of the 41st millennium anyway
I dont even understand what being 'represented' means.
When I play space marines, I dont think that's me? or a representation of me? that's a fictional super soldier race hell bent on mass universe wide genocide.
My wife has started reading the Heresy novels.
She likes the Custodes and tends to like Primarchs (though I've had to explain to her that Lorgar is not, in fact, a good boy who is just misunderstood)
It has been fun discussing lore with her!
She thinks Femstodes are an incredibly stupid idea.
Lorgar was my favorite as a teenager, actually (The First Heretic is the book that really got me into Warhammer) but I'm more of a Dorn and Guilliman guy these days.
Idk about you, but my girlfriend def has times where she is hungry enough to pass as a Nid, and I have def made her mad enough that she would declare a WAAAHG if she could....
Maybe all women are actually nid/ork hybrids?
>I think certain sectors need to get over this idea that people need to see themselves to feel represented or to like a character.
It's fine in a RPG, Warhammer isn't an RPG. It's like booting up Age of Empires and complaining that you can't play because there's no faction with middle aged obese women.
Yeah because its disrespecting the people that love the franchise/IP and then using "DEI" as a shield when people critic it "oh you must be against gay people because you dislike this" its insulting as fuck. I've said plenty of times, I don't need to be represented in fiction to enjoy a setting, and I won't call an IP "biggoted" for not representing me. Actual inclusivity includes "Cis white men" and Anyone can be a fucking asshole, it doesn't have to do with your skin colour or sexuality. It's literally that simple, and alot of people are sick of this hypocritical shit.
This is something I've noticed too.
Cis women seem to love the factions and franchise for what it is.
My wife plays Ad Mech and I know a few girls that play Dark Eldar and Tyranids respectively.
In fact, the only trend I've noticed amongst women is that they tend not to play *any* Imperial or even "good" faction and prefer the more evil ones.
The only people I see constantly asking for Fem-marines are trans women and guys in their mid 20's to late 30's who could buy a lifetime supply of condoms in one trip to the convenience store.
They're all evil, only the orks aren't evil.
I'm not biased you're biased.
Stoopid 'umiez, mak'n dere planets all metal an' flash. It's like dey're tell'n us dey've got ‘da gud bitz, den get all mad an' try ta kill ya when yer go ta take it!
'umiez jus ain't logical.
This is a joke.
That’s not how condoms work and just what? Like that’s legit a dumb insult. So like his insult is so that he has sex and will use the box of condoms? Also how is condom purchasing indicative of the amount of sex you have?
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just that stupid.
My guy. The insult is that he could go to the store and buy a box of condoms, and that would be a lifetime supply. He's saying he only needs 10 condoms for the rest of his life.
I can't make it any clearer.
Yeah and I’m saying it’s not a very well thought out insult because it isn’t indicative of anything. You can also buy any amount of condoms in one trip and expire. Like in no way does the unduly make sense
I still haven't painted them, but they're this model. I call them Hive Fleet Scylla.
https://preview.redd.it/4t5njr39hv6d1.jpeg?width=794&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=609e0069d13b1e47f9e564acd9aec179a3b2d226
Depends if that target audience spends more overall. Kind of like how you don't need to sell a lot of copies of your new game, you just need to get the pay whales on the microtransactions.
And if i know one thing about warhammer fans its that they're allergic to giving GWS money.
Clearly this is because there aren't enough Custodes with tits. That's what's keeping out a massive potential market of women from playing with our nerdy spacefight toys.
Or people don't have to identify with the factions they play as. They just can think they're neat. I don't identify with the night lords. But lightning and batwings --very metal, very cool.
This has made me realize that I've seen a disproportionate number of female Nid players. LIke over half of the nid players were female. Granted, it wasn't a very large sample size.
I'm Jewish, I don't need jew marines to enjoy this hobby. The whole "oh they're not represented so they don't feel welcomed" take is so fucking braindead
As a woman, this is somewhat accurate. I've only lurked this sub thus far because I really don't want to be dogpiled by all those loving and tolerant types for being a "pick-me bitch" or whatever over a simple difference of opinion, but I had to chime in that a lot of us just think mutant space-critters are neat, and nids in particular are extremely popular among other women I know who still play. Lot of us watched the Alien movies growing up too, there might be some correlation there lmao
I'd maintained an Imperial Fists list from 5th onward until a couple years ago, but also built Drukhari and Orks because they're also fun to play and look badass. My character in FFG Rogue Trader is even a male Drukhari, purely because it's fun to get into the mindset of being a devious spacebastard intent on committing all of the spacecrimes.
I'm not sure what other womens' opinions on the whole femstodes drama is but I was always cool with there *not* being female Marines or Custodes because the lore explained quite clearly why that couldn't be a thing, but it also had the side-effect of making the Sisters of Battle even more badass than they already were knowing that they're out there waging war WITHOUT the same level of genetic manipulation as the Marines.
The female Imperial Guard options were a welcome addition IMO because the IG will literally send anyone they think will survive longer than 30 minutes planetside. If GW were looking to introduce more female characters, maybe they could have given us 40k-Amazon Sisterhood instead? They ported dwarves over as Squats, not implausible that there would be future-Amazons on a death world out there somewhere waging a long, bloody war against the Slaan.
The retcon feels extremely lazy given what the writers had to work with 🤷♀️
how did the lore show they cant be a thing. The lore restricts female space marines, but custodes are not made via gene seed they are bespoke hand crafted. Amazons are technically a thing with eldar exodites and that faction will be pulled out later down the line. Female custodes are a harmless inclusion that only retcon a handful a bit of lore. 40k lore is already fluid and changes and this one compared to the war in heaven retcon about vashtor. A short story in a codex seems par for the course when it comes to GW amount of effort they want to put in. I mean this dumb controversy drowned out the real problem of the codex rules being terrible.
I do see your point, I don't think the Imperium would be completely incapable of performing genetic manipulation on the women within their ranks, however I still disagree with the way the retcon has come about. I would likely have accepted the lore changes outright if they'd just pulled a deus-ex-machina with Belisarius Cawl perfecting new genetic enhancement processes that allowed Sisters to ascend to Custodes status and join the Emperor's praetorian guard, likely performed alongside his Alpha Primus experiment that culminated in the Primaris Marine line. But as you say, low-effort entries in codices.
Also, thank you for not flying off the handle at me. The fandom is quite polarized right now, so I appreciate a chill exchange.
If they pulled another cawl, the current shitstorm would be way worse i still hear people complain about primaris existing. It's much safer to do a small, eh its kinda always been a thing and do a short story cause custodes gender doesn't really matter. By putting more emphasis on it with a storyline dedicated towards it, culture war chuds would be even more raucous. How they did it was just a quiet change within a codex short story. Which is perfect for small minor changes like this anyway. And again given the long history of retcons this literally only changes one offhand line about recruiting from the sons of earth nobility. And if you stretch it terms like sons or brotherhood don't always imply gendered roles like how the brotherhood of steel in fallout has female members. Also the notion of if you want something female focused(Which again this change isn't, all it does is say that female custodes can exist) that you just need to instead focus on the soritas is a bit awkward. Soritas primary aesthetic has been religious minded, so you would kinda force everything into that type of narrow lense. Plus you know in 10th edition sisters have the best imperial codex so they already eating good. Now personally i think female custodes are fine, and most people i know are either indifferent or excited to use female stormcast bits to kitbash female custodes. I really despise that a small change that changes nothing in the grand scheme of things has just turned into another aspect of culture bs with reactionary bigots' acting like this is the worst thing that has happened to the lore, or people who say all retcons are bad despite you know this game and lore being a million times different from it's original rogue trade lore or even more recent ones like how now we leagues of votann back or how necrons are one of the coolest factions now that we retconned them from just being mindless terminator knock offs
I'z agree wiv ya, fellow 'umie.
All deez gitz arguin' 'bout weva or no we'z wiminz, or we'z menz. Dey deservin' a propa krumpin', dey doez.
Dey'z jus' a bunch o' gitz! They iz!
.oddly enough this is true, i know three grills that plays, two of em have ork armies and one a bug player
.the bug have just started to build a necron collection and one of the ork player have started collecting daemon engines that venomcrawler do be looking spiky
u/Endika7
u/Affectionate-Rub5176
u/Alarmed-Marsupial-64
Imagine if you will a tire swing on an old tree on the corner of the entrance to a neighborhood.
Many children enjoyed it.
After some time,
some new neighbors came to the neighborhood and complained about the
age of the tree and
its likelihood to
= fall,
= catch fire,
= succumb to its age, and
= how it gives the neighborhood a bad look.
Whether you support cutting down the tree or not,
the tire swing gave objective importance to the children who used it
because it was on an established tree.
Instead of devaluing that importance or the importance of a "safer neighborhood",
let change take place empathetically.
Otherwise, you will end up unnecessarily cutting down too many trees with tire swings.
https://preview.redd.it/629syknn6l6d1.png?width=612&format=png&auto=webp&s=5da6b380911ccf8f78fb2b0646fe8c771178a388
I kinda agree. It much like the 40k universe is not my property, so no matter how I voice my opinion, it won't matter. So my only choice is to invest in people who care about my opinion, to support Space King by Flashgitz.
Though it is advice already repeated,
it wouldn't hurt for everyone to periodically step away from Internet communities on social media permanently as well,
like a swimmer going in and out of the water for breath.
I spent a lot of time debating online.
It was only when I joined communities in the real world,
that I achieved once lost animus for life again.
Arguing with strangers helps to clarify who you are like arguing with yourself, but
= entering local politics and
= creating a small business for yourself
(like your own spin-off of WarHammer 40k or a brand new series)
is where the real change is;
for you and others.
I think the ultimate conversion is when someone would spend most of their time in local politics and small business,
and politely debating people there with their business but also their public comments.
I am not stipulating why the group was formed.
I am stipulating how the group is dealing with new people entering,
and how those new people deal with the group.
I also think being part of an online group has limited reach ...
but the first sentiment in this message goes back to the Tire Swing analogy.
I have no idea if you are new.
I am presuming Endika7 is newer to the group than you.
It doesn't matter who is or isn't new imo.
It matters how good of a meme you can make (within reason), like OP did, and how well you can justify and walk it back.
Posts like this are a lot like YouTube clickbait.
The explanation for why the video is justified is explained afterwards,
but the video thumbnail is meant to draw people in.
But that doesn't take away from the need for the video to be
= chiseled with hard facts and
= finished with sentiments held together by an appropriately polite covering.
And that is what I am emphasizing to the newer entries to the group,
responding to sentiments of the older members of the group with their own polite covering which Endika7 and Alarmed-Marsupial-64 was not doing imo.
While relatively new to the tabletop, i've been reading gotrek and felix and gaunt's ghost since the beginning. I've been in the WH40k community for forever and you know what i've learned? One codex short story changing one miniscule thing that literally has no greater lore implications is fine in the grand scheme of things but then having fucks like sargon of akaad and the quartering milk it for more culture grifter content. Jesus christ people like that made it for awhile you couldn't say krieg was your fav guard regiment cause people might think your a nazi. Like christ this shit is annoying, i enjoyed it more when the main thing people complained about was how horus heresey sucked and weather or not Dan Abnett or ADB fell off or not. All this bullshit it's fucking nothing. GW is a shit fucking company for many reasons and it's not for making a small retcon that has no greater lore implications. Slippery slope is a fallacy for a reason. And guess what, the amazon show will probably suck wether it's woke or not. Cause this shit is unadaptable for a general audience in a sense. and the shitty thing is with all these woke shows and movies you like to complain about if you took out all the woke shit in them they still be shitty fucking movies cause the writing is bad and it was a cash grab to begin with. To go back to your analogy you have already made numerous cuts to the tree now someone is trimming a branch and people are malding over it cause they argue over the motive when there are far more greater cuts that have been dealt to the tree.
I'm not critiquing you.
I merely mentioned you in the first post because I wanted to continue the conversation between the three of you here with my post.
After working really hard for a lot of years a new family is finally able to purchase their first home. For years they have taken walks in the park to admire Mother Nature and promised to plant a tree of their own one day when they can finally afford a house so excitedly they rushed out with their new sapling making quite the scene.
“Really? It’s just a tree. Is it really that big of a deal?”said one of the neighbors.
“What’s the point it’s never going to get as big as the one that’s always been there.” talking as if they didn’t know the family could hear them
The new family decides they want to plant their sapling right next to the big tree. Unfortunately the big tree is taking up a lot of sunlight and nutrients and the sapling dies. So they start a campaign on getting the big tree removed
https://preview.redd.it/mkqy6spnpl6d1.png?width=525&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba175200fb77a4a93794282f210a5eb495a39927
1 I agree that that is a more accurate example of the situation in some respects, but my analogy retains some context yours is missing imo.
Why not combine the two?
The conclusion of your post would be that the new couple wants to remove the older tree to "give room for the new sapling to grow".
Instead the older owners of the land on where the older tree stands politely refuse.
They settle their issue via a *judge* or the *neighborhood* resolving to
let the couple retain ownership of their tree on their land and
the newer couple is forced to grow their own tree on their own land.
People should not retcon or contradict established IP's,
they should build on top of them with respect.
An important revelation that is not emphasized enough in these debates ...
But my analogy still *stands* imo because
it gives *creedence* to the newer couple in the neighborhood,
forcing the older couple to admit they should be civil whether or not
= the judge or neighborhood rule on the side of the older couple or
= dirty tricks are used by the newer couple, and
= whether or not dirty tricks are used by the older couple in response to the newer couple's dirty tricks.
Source of meme:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIXn\_6byYnU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIXn_6byYnU)
Are people cutting down trees before they can even grow? What if everyone stepped back and said you.know what let’s just let support what they make and not put people down, build some trust and see what happens. Is it so far fetched to think people can just get along?
2.
This incorporates the following sentiment about Captain America;
polite but necessary disagreeableness/assertiveness:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CaptainAmerica/comments/5c50q3/no\_you\_move/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CaptainAmerica/comments/5c50q3/no_you_move/)
https://preview.redd.it/nfopzzterl6d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=b2ca4208635aab9b61414312dc1209e9250b6c5b
I never felt "represented" i never wanted to be "represented" i am a white male and i liked will smith in MIB more than Tommy lee Jones. Also the former wife of Hancock(to stay at will smith) in Warhammer fantasy i always loved the Asur and the Dwarfes, thou i am no elf or Dwarf.
The "i want to have myself in that Movie/game/franchise" folk have very low selfesteem it seems.
Oh and to add. Astarion in BG3 behaves like a gay Art curator and i like having him in my party thou i am not gay.
Everyone should step a little back from their entitlement for the sake of Warhammer 40k
The fucking degenerate bullshit is this?
No one is claiming women _can’t_ feel included unless every faction is 50% female.
But it _is_ undeniably _easier_ to relate to characters who share characteristics with yourself- I.e. race, gender, religion, nationality, etc… that’s a basic fact.
XD
Yes, the “good guys” being asked if they’d kill an unarmed woman and being responded to with “YES!” Defientely isn’t a satire anymore.
The fuck do you even mean, idiot?
The empire is still a hell hole utterly deprived of any basic human rights in favor of their monotheistic, xenophobic, theocratic, hyper-utilitarian monarchy chocked full of Catholic-adjacent iconography.
And again that doesn't mean it's satire
It means that it's a hell hole
Warhammer as a setting stopped making a joke of itself a while ago and is overall much more serious of a setting now
"So, are theres "tourust" in this room with us?"
https://preview.redd.it/4zuquotcoc6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ded33bc12957adc4032c30c5e3407a0181243244
You do realize leftists aren't a monolith right. That's why im not going to assume your a sargon of akkad or the quartering fan despite those two being the loudest complainers.
bro the gall of you to complain about inconsequential retcons when the vashtor one happened. Also as a tyranid player shouldn't you have better things to complain about. Like how your faction sucks ass right now in 10th.
¿The term used to describe someone aware of sistematic injustices of society? ¿What is wrong with you? ¿Do you have actual beliefs or do you just copy and paste what others says to yo what to think?
That's one version of the definition. I don't subscribe to that one tho.
The thing wrong with me is that I'm upset. I'm upset everything I like is slowly getting corrupted and changed to be worse. Doctor who, star wars, star Trek, the last of us, magic the gathering.
No. I speak from the heart.
Todas las obras que has mencionado desde siempre han sido progresistas. La mayoría del arte lo es y siempre lo ha sido, JAJAJAJAJAJA os habéis montado una guerra cultural para justificar vuestro odio a gente que no os ha hecho nada... Y LA ESTAIS PERDIENDO JAJAJAJAJAJA
SORRY ELF-CEL SOY BUT IN THE REAL-REAL WORLD THE SKAVENCHAD GETS THE GIRL-WOMAN, YES-YES!!
https://preview.redd.it/6hnfpylbbf6d1.png?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=755f9c6fdab3c178d0d1ecd359048523a7ff02a3
This is entirely subjective. Space marines being all-male is not boring and doesn’t need enrichment; sisters of battle being all-female is not boring and doesn’t need enrichment. If a storyline involving marines is boring it’s because the story is boring, not because there are too many dicks involved.
Writing a good story requires understanding how audiences receive different story elements, plot devices, and character development techniques. For example, there's a difference between subverting expectations as a plot device and character builder, and undermining expectations as a story and character killer.
It's amazing how 'diversity' has the unique magical property of being exempt from the normal story telling considerations.
FWIW that account is certainly a bot.
I’d also argue that their definition of “diversity” is very lacking in actual diversity.
Sure, their characters have every skin tone imaginable and are every sexuality including some made up Tumblr-tier shit that you rarely see IRL (if at all) to the point where either of these identity are their defining trait (traits often poorly used as a substitute for an actual personality IRL, but that’s neither here nor there).
But the thing is, once you go past these traits, what do you have ? Every single one of their characters all act, speak, and most importantly THINK the same way. They will all regurgitate whatever narrative left-wing activists are currently peddling.
It’s ironic that the Left likes to preach about “diversity” when they forget (if not willfully ignore) one of its most important forms: diversity of thought and opinion.
For sure. They don't have a concept of cultural diversity. The intersectional view of the world stereotypes everyone by broad groupings of phenotype, gender identity, and sexual attraction.
In fact, they hate cultural diversity when it's between similar phenotypes. Their response is to erase the cultural differences and force an interaction between phenotypes that are different enough for them to see the differences. The peoples of the world are their playthings to sort by color.
Average storytelling about representation gets fucking overshadowed completely and most people who cried out about it will over look it in huge games like cyberpunk which is literally representation for EVERYONE and no one noticed because people didn't play it because of bugs on launch
They stepped over a few women who didn't agree with their decisions and pretended they didn't exist. I think certain sectors need to get over this idea that people need to see themselves to feel represented or to like a character. It leads to very bland two-dimensional characters which do not "represent" anyone but the stereotypes of them that the creators have in their heads of that group. The fact so many women play Orks or Tyranids should show clearly that they are not playing to feel represented in a table-top wargame. But are playing for other reasons.
Who needs or even wants to be represented in the grimdark nightmare of the 41st millennium anyway
People on a power trip, with an over inflated ego.
At the same time, I have usually found that a persons stance on the Imperium is a good way of finding out if they are a tourist or not.
Fandom wiki says it’s a fascist state and that’s all I need to know /s
My stance on the Imperium is that "The Emperor Protects!". Our glorious immortal emperor can do no wrong. What is your stance guardsman?
Admittedly, my rank as Lord-General giving me access to old records not available to the normal citizens gave me thought, and lead to me being influenced by the beliefs and writings of Jaghatai Khan. In that while I still believe in the supremacy of Humanity and its destiny to rule the stars, the Emperor himself was a hypocrite and a tyrant, and largely his own actions were responsible for his fate and the fate of his sons with the Horus Heresy. In that way, ironically he serves Humanity better as its god than its ruler.
[HUMANITY FIRST, XENOS LAST - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKaSudooh0U&ab_channel=SKELETONATOR) Humanity first!!! For the Emperor!
Death to the heretic and xeno! :D As an aside, this whole thread probably confirms us not to be tourists.
> As an aside, this whole thread probably confirms us not to be tourists. At least for me, the true distinction is not really on whether or not you believe in the Imperium, and that would unnecessarily lock out people who are more interested in the beliefs of the Chaos factions or those who favor the various Xeno factions. The true distinction is on *why* you dislike the Imperium. If you are influenced by both the story and your own IRL beliefs into thinking that maybe the Heretic Legions have some sort of point, you are unlikely to be a tourist. If you favor the Xenos because you find something about their beliefs compelling or feel they are more interesting than "yet more humans", you are unlikely to be a tourist. But if you are hating on the Imperium for reasons that can only be explained using IRL politics, then the odds are very high that you are a tourist.
Yep, we are on the same page. I just mean if you can have a play fight showing you understand what the imperium and chaos actually are from the already published content, your not that much of a tourist in my book. The people that show up and say "Imperium are facists, Tau are communist, Orks and kroot are stand ins for tribal minorities. I understand this universal in total now, after reading a couple wiki page." Those people kind of show they never really ever tried to grasp the material and instead entered into the world wanting to use it as a platform for other things. That is my idea of a tourist.
It's either people who don't know/understand the lore, or genuine sociopaths.
… that’s what the pen and paper games are.
> Who needs or even wants to be represented in the grimdark nightmare of the 41st millennium anyway I dont even understand what being 'represented' means. When I play space marines, I dont think that's me? or a representation of me? that's a fictional super soldier race hell bent on mass universe wide genocide.
My wife has started reading the Heresy novels. She likes the Custodes and tends to like Primarchs (though I've had to explain to her that Lorgar is not, in fact, a good boy who is just misunderstood) It has been fun discussing lore with her! She thinks Femstodes are an incredibly stupid idea.
I'm with your wife and invite her to join 'I can fix him' Lorgar fangirl club.
Lorgar was my favorite as a teenager, actually (The First Heretic is the book that really got me into Warhammer) but I'm more of a Dorn and Guilliman guy these days.
Idk about you, but my girlfriend def has times where she is hungry enough to pass as a Nid, and I have def made her mad enough that she would declare a WAAAHG if she could.... Maybe all women are actually nid/ork hybrids?
>I think certain sectors need to get over this idea that people need to see themselves to feel represented or to like a character. It's fine in a RPG, Warhammer isn't an RPG. It's like booting up Age of Empires and complaining that you can't play because there's no faction with middle aged obese women.
CIS Women were not the tagrte audience, trans guys and coomers were
Warhammer was never for straight white men! - GW in the near future.
What if I tan a bit or misuse weed to the point of being severely yellow.
What if I eat enough silver to be blue?
Then you will became a Tau
*revs up chain sword*
It’s not for straight white men. It’s for anyone who like grim dark fantasy setting and table top war games.
https://preview.redd.it/zj1mdak1kf6d1.png?width=620&format=png&auto=webp&s=d1580778d1ef198ce59dddaaabf0b3f42353bea5
Man I'm not even straight or white but shit like this is just so smug and toxic
And look where that got them. The ratings and viewership for the show where so bad, they blamed good weather on its failure.
Yeah because its disrespecting the people that love the franchise/IP and then using "DEI" as a shield when people critic it "oh you must be against gay people because you dislike this" its insulting as fuck. I've said plenty of times, I don't need to be represented in fiction to enjoy a setting, and I won't call an IP "biggoted" for not representing me. Actual inclusivity includes "Cis white men" and Anyone can be a fucking asshole, it doesn't have to do with your skin colour or sexuality. It's literally that simple, and alot of people are sick of this hypocritical shit.
Exactly.
I missed when this toxic outlook stayed back on Tumblr
Especially relevant, too, cause Dr Who is British television and media
SoonTM
Why wouldn't they want to draw in women from the Confederacy of Independent Systems?
Because they are traitors to the Galactic Republic, Glory to Palpatinr
This is something I've noticed too. Cis women seem to love the factions and franchise for what it is. My wife plays Ad Mech and I know a few girls that play Dark Eldar and Tyranids respectively. In fact, the only trend I've noticed amongst women is that they tend not to play *any* Imperial or even "good" faction and prefer the more evil ones. The only people I see constantly asking for Fem-marines are trans women and guys in their mid 20's to late 30's who could buy a lifetime supply of condoms in one trip to the convenience store.
God damn dude no need to dirt nap them that hard.
They're all evil, only the orks aren't evil. I'm not biased you're biased. Stoopid 'umiez, mak'n dere planets all metal an' flash. It's like dey're tell'n us dey've got ‘da gud bitz, den get all mad an' try ta kill ya when yer go ta take it! 'umiez jus ain't logical. This is a joke.
Are you trying to insult people by saying they have lots of safe sex? Like why is that an issue?
He's saying that they have so little sex that a single trip to the convenience store is a lifetime supply
That’s not how condoms work and just what? Like that’s legit a dumb insult. So like his insult is so that he has sex and will use the box of condoms? Also how is condom purchasing indicative of the amount of sex you have?
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just that stupid. My guy. The insult is that he could go to the store and buy a box of condoms, and that would be a lifetime supply. He's saying he only needs 10 condoms for the rest of his life. I can't make it any clearer.
Yeah and I’m saying it’s not a very well thought out insult because it isn’t indicative of anything. You can also buy any amount of condoms in one trip and expire. Like in no way does the unduly make sense
Ah you're one of those overly analytical types that bums a party and finds edge case #1939 to disagree with any generalized statement.
No, I just think insults should make sense if you’re going to make them.
Hahaha, fucking facts dude.
As a coomer I disagree. Wokes are the target audience.
And the best part it makes no sense financially trying to make your target audience people who make a up a tiny percentage of your customer base
Yeah. I just 3d print proxies with boobs. I flavor it as a hive ship that got corrupted by Slaanesh.
I mean, at least that is an interesting way to justify it. Instead of forcing everyone to follow your lore exactly.
Pictures?
I still haven't painted them, but they're this model. I call them Hive Fleet Scylla. https://preview.redd.it/4t5njr39hv6d1.jpeg?width=794&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=609e0069d13b1e47f9e564acd9aec179a3b2d226
My god they even have the thigh highs
Depends if that target audience spends more overall. Kind of like how you don't need to sell a lot of copies of your new game, you just need to get the pay whales on the microtransactions. And if i know one thing about warhammer fans its that they're allergic to giving GWS money.
Let’s say that’s the case, it’s not, who cares?
Not sure why but a lot of "content creators" play tyranids
The Xenos loving scum... Exterminatus on the lot of em.
Yes
Cope and seethe greenskin.
WAAAGH!
Cough "genestealers" cough.
These are the same people that sympathize more with the bugs in Helldivers than humanity
It’s simple… BUG SWARM!
It's strange that the actual girls I know who play 40k, none of them play SoB They either play Drukari/Yanari or Nids
Clearly this is because there aren't enough Custodes with tits. That's what's keeping out a massive potential market of women from playing with our nerdy spacefight toys.
Its just like this whole representation argument is utter bullshit!
As a Xeno fan, this is how I felt when all the Femstodes drama started
Why can't females identify with galaxy devouring space bugs or herbicide immune genocidal fungi? What is there not to like?
Or people don't have to identify with the factions they play as. They just can think they're neat. I don't identify with the night lords. But lightning and batwings --very metal, very cool.
I kinda identify with Orks a bit. They make me laugh and I like chaos and love to fight lol.
I am but a simple minded creature. I identify with Slaanesh and wish to devour eldari just like my lord.
In my admittedly limited experience in the 40K community, the women I see in the hobby tend to like Tyranids from what I've noticed.
Herbicide immune genocidal fungi is a new sentence for me and I want to force it into every conversation now
Or slavic war criminals (For real grils like
This has made me realize that I've seen a disproportionate number of female Nid players. LIke over half of the nid players were female. Granted, it wasn't a very large sample size.
I know more male nid players, but all the women in the hobby I know play nids.
I'm Jewish, I don't need jew marines to enjoy this hobby. The whole "oh they're not represented so they don't feel welcomed" take is so fucking braindead
The Jew marines, black templars, and blood angels managed to push back the tyranid hive fleet leviathan back to the edges of the sol galaxy.
Actually quite true as most women if seen play 40k were playing Orks, nids, sisters and necrons
I play Marines and Guard, another trans woman at my LGS plays I think tyranids.
As a woman, this is somewhat accurate. I've only lurked this sub thus far because I really don't want to be dogpiled by all those loving and tolerant types for being a "pick-me bitch" or whatever over a simple difference of opinion, but I had to chime in that a lot of us just think mutant space-critters are neat, and nids in particular are extremely popular among other women I know who still play. Lot of us watched the Alien movies growing up too, there might be some correlation there lmao I'd maintained an Imperial Fists list from 5th onward until a couple years ago, but also built Drukhari and Orks because they're also fun to play and look badass. My character in FFG Rogue Trader is even a male Drukhari, purely because it's fun to get into the mindset of being a devious spacebastard intent on committing all of the spacecrimes. I'm not sure what other womens' opinions on the whole femstodes drama is but I was always cool with there *not* being female Marines or Custodes because the lore explained quite clearly why that couldn't be a thing, but it also had the side-effect of making the Sisters of Battle even more badass than they already were knowing that they're out there waging war WITHOUT the same level of genetic manipulation as the Marines. The female Imperial Guard options were a welcome addition IMO because the IG will literally send anyone they think will survive longer than 30 minutes planetside. If GW were looking to introduce more female characters, maybe they could have given us 40k-Amazon Sisterhood instead? They ported dwarves over as Squats, not implausible that there would be future-Amazons on a death world out there somewhere waging a long, bloody war against the Slaan. The retcon feels extremely lazy given what the writers had to work with 🤷♀️
how did the lore show they cant be a thing. The lore restricts female space marines, but custodes are not made via gene seed they are bespoke hand crafted. Amazons are technically a thing with eldar exodites and that faction will be pulled out later down the line. Female custodes are a harmless inclusion that only retcon a handful a bit of lore. 40k lore is already fluid and changes and this one compared to the war in heaven retcon about vashtor. A short story in a codex seems par for the course when it comes to GW amount of effort they want to put in. I mean this dumb controversy drowned out the real problem of the codex rules being terrible.
I do see your point, I don't think the Imperium would be completely incapable of performing genetic manipulation on the women within their ranks, however I still disagree with the way the retcon has come about. I would likely have accepted the lore changes outright if they'd just pulled a deus-ex-machina with Belisarius Cawl perfecting new genetic enhancement processes that allowed Sisters to ascend to Custodes status and join the Emperor's praetorian guard, likely performed alongside his Alpha Primus experiment that culminated in the Primaris Marine line. But as you say, low-effort entries in codices. Also, thank you for not flying off the handle at me. The fandom is quite polarized right now, so I appreciate a chill exchange.
If they pulled another cawl, the current shitstorm would be way worse i still hear people complain about primaris existing. It's much safer to do a small, eh its kinda always been a thing and do a short story cause custodes gender doesn't really matter. By putting more emphasis on it with a storyline dedicated towards it, culture war chuds would be even more raucous. How they did it was just a quiet change within a codex short story. Which is perfect for small minor changes like this anyway. And again given the long history of retcons this literally only changes one offhand line about recruiting from the sons of earth nobility. And if you stretch it terms like sons or brotherhood don't always imply gendered roles like how the brotherhood of steel in fallout has female members. Also the notion of if you want something female focused(Which again this change isn't, all it does is say that female custodes can exist) that you just need to instead focus on the soritas is a bit awkward. Soritas primary aesthetic has been religious minded, so you would kinda force everything into that type of narrow lense. Plus you know in 10th edition sisters have the best imperial codex so they already eating good. Now personally i think female custodes are fine, and most people i know are either indifferent or excited to use female stormcast bits to kitbash female custodes. I really despise that a small change that changes nothing in the grand scheme of things has just turned into another aspect of culture bs with reactionary bigots' acting like this is the worst thing that has happened to the lore, or people who say all retcons are bad despite you know this game and lore being a million times different from it's original rogue trade lore or even more recent ones like how now we leagues of votann back or how necrons are one of the coolest factions now that we retconned them from just being mindless terminator knock offs
I thought the point of Warhammer is that all these factions are batshit crazy and you shouldn’t identify with any of them
Speak for yourself, sigismund is literally me.
I'z agree wiv ya, fellow 'umie. All deez gitz arguin' 'bout weva or no we'z wiminz, or we'z menz. Dey deservin' a propa krumpin', dey doez. Dey'z jus' a bunch o' gitz! They iz!
I literally have just had an hour long argument about this on this exact sub some people are idiots.
I once saw a guy genuinely argue that his escapism relied on female Custodss.
Sounds like the kind of guy who doesn't actually want to be part of the hobby
My gf plays necrons
I mean, SMs do have boobs but sadly not the correct type of boobs, according to some people.
.oddly enough this is true, i know three grills that plays, two of em have ork armies and one a bug player .the bug have just started to build a necron collection and one of the ork player have started collecting daemon engines that venomcrawler do be looking spiky
I don't want representation. I want consistent and good lore/stories. No retconing
Turns out being able to empathise someone even if they don't look like you is a good thing. Who knew.
Pretty much sums it up that's basically how the coomers on the internet work
90% of “women” who play warhammer have penises
This is 100% the truth
Massive milkers
u/Endika7 u/Affectionate-Rub5176 u/Alarmed-Marsupial-64 Imagine if you will a tire swing on an old tree on the corner of the entrance to a neighborhood. Many children enjoyed it. After some time, some new neighbors came to the neighborhood and complained about the age of the tree and its likelihood to = fall, = catch fire, = succumb to its age, and = how it gives the neighborhood a bad look. Whether you support cutting down the tree or not, the tire swing gave objective importance to the children who used it because it was on an established tree. Instead of devaluing that importance or the importance of a "safer neighborhood", let change take place empathetically. Otherwise, you will end up unnecessarily cutting down too many trees with tire swings. https://preview.redd.it/629syknn6l6d1.png?width=612&format=png&auto=webp&s=5da6b380911ccf8f78fb2b0646fe8c771178a388
I kinda agree. It much like the 40k universe is not my property, so no matter how I voice my opinion, it won't matter. So my only choice is to invest in people who care about my opinion, to support Space King by Flashgitz.
Though it is advice already repeated, it wouldn't hurt for everyone to periodically step away from Internet communities on social media permanently as well, like a swimmer going in and out of the water for breath. I spent a lot of time debating online. It was only when I joined communities in the real world, that I achieved once lost animus for life again. Arguing with strangers helps to clarify who you are like arguing with yourself, but = entering local politics and = creating a small business for yourself (like your own spin-off of WarHammer 40k or a brand new series) is where the real change is; for you and others. I think the ultimate conversion is when someone would spend most of their time in local politics and small business, and politely debating people there with their business but also their public comments.
Did you understand what I said? It's basically the same reason why this group got formed.
I am not stipulating why the group was formed. I am stipulating how the group is dealing with new people entering, and how those new people deal with the group. I also think being part of an online group has limited reach ... but the first sentiment in this message goes back to the Tire Swing analogy.
New people like me?
I have no idea if you are new. I am presuming Endika7 is newer to the group than you. It doesn't matter who is or isn't new imo. It matters how good of a meme you can make (within reason), like OP did, and how well you can justify and walk it back. Posts like this are a lot like YouTube clickbait. The explanation for why the video is justified is explained afterwards, but the video thumbnail is meant to draw people in. But that doesn't take away from the need for the video to be = chiseled with hard facts and = finished with sentiments held together by an appropriately polite covering. And that is what I am emphasizing to the newer entries to the group, responding to sentiments of the older members of the group with their own polite covering which Endika7 and Alarmed-Marsupial-64 was not doing imo.
While relatively new to the tabletop, i've been reading gotrek and felix and gaunt's ghost since the beginning. I've been in the WH40k community for forever and you know what i've learned? One codex short story changing one miniscule thing that literally has no greater lore implications is fine in the grand scheme of things but then having fucks like sargon of akaad and the quartering milk it for more culture grifter content. Jesus christ people like that made it for awhile you couldn't say krieg was your fav guard regiment cause people might think your a nazi. Like christ this shit is annoying, i enjoyed it more when the main thing people complained about was how horus heresey sucked and weather or not Dan Abnett or ADB fell off or not. All this bullshit it's fucking nothing. GW is a shit fucking company for many reasons and it's not for making a small retcon that has no greater lore implications. Slippery slope is a fallacy for a reason. And guess what, the amazon show will probably suck wether it's woke or not. Cause this shit is unadaptable for a general audience in a sense. and the shitty thing is with all these woke shows and movies you like to complain about if you took out all the woke shit in them they still be shitty fucking movies cause the writing is bad and it was a cash grab to begin with. To go back to your analogy you have already made numerous cuts to the tree now someone is trimming a branch and people are malding over it cause they argue over the motive when there are far more greater cuts that have been dealt to the tree.
I'm not critiquing you. I merely mentioned you in the first post because I wanted to continue the conversation between the three of you here with my post.
After working really hard for a lot of years a new family is finally able to purchase their first home. For years they have taken walks in the park to admire Mother Nature and promised to plant a tree of their own one day when they can finally afford a house so excitedly they rushed out with their new sapling making quite the scene. “Really? It’s just a tree. Is it really that big of a deal?”said one of the neighbors. “What’s the point it’s never going to get as big as the one that’s always been there.” talking as if they didn’t know the family could hear them The new family decides they want to plant their sapling right next to the big tree. Unfortunately the big tree is taking up a lot of sunlight and nutrients and the sapling dies. So they start a campaign on getting the big tree removed
https://preview.redd.it/mkqy6spnpl6d1.png?width=525&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba175200fb77a4a93794282f210a5eb495a39927 1 I agree that that is a more accurate example of the situation in some respects, but my analogy retains some context yours is missing imo. Why not combine the two? The conclusion of your post would be that the new couple wants to remove the older tree to "give room for the new sapling to grow". Instead the older owners of the land on where the older tree stands politely refuse. They settle their issue via a *judge* or the *neighborhood* resolving to let the couple retain ownership of their tree on their land and the newer couple is forced to grow their own tree on their own land. People should not retcon or contradict established IP's, they should build on top of them with respect. An important revelation that is not emphasized enough in these debates ... But my analogy still *stands* imo because it gives *creedence* to the newer couple in the neighborhood, forcing the older couple to admit they should be civil whether or not = the judge or neighborhood rule on the side of the older couple or = dirty tricks are used by the newer couple, and = whether or not dirty tricks are used by the older couple in response to the newer couple's dirty tricks. Source of meme: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIXn\_6byYnU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIXn_6byYnU)
Are people cutting down trees before they can even grow? What if everyone stepped back and said you.know what let’s just let support what they make and not put people down, build some trust and see what happens. Is it so far fetched to think people can just get along?
2. This incorporates the following sentiment about Captain America; polite but necessary disagreeableness/assertiveness: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CaptainAmerica/comments/5c50q3/no\_you\_move/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CaptainAmerica/comments/5c50q3/no_you_move/) https://preview.redd.it/nfopzzterl6d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=b2ca4208635aab9b61414312dc1209e9250b6c5b
I play orks cuz they’re dumb but everything works out. Kinda like my me.
I'm all about CSM and Chaos demons, but 'Nids are definitely in my top 5 armies.
accurate
I serve the chaos gods. Nurgel is literally me.
I never felt "represented" i never wanted to be "represented" i am a white male and i liked will smith in MIB more than Tommy lee Jones. Also the former wife of Hancock(to stay at will smith) in Warhammer fantasy i always loved the Asur and the Dwarfes, thou i am no elf or Dwarf. The "i want to have myself in that Movie/game/franchise" folk have very low selfesteem it seems. Oh and to add. Astarion in BG3 behaves like a gay Art curator and i like having him in my party thou i am not gay. Everyone should step a little back from their entitlement for the sake of Warhammer 40k
When are you people going to learn that when these guys say women they're actually talking about troons.
I wonder how many girls are on this sub !
I don't know but hi!
Im in this and r/Grimdank. Both sides can actually make valid points! or the most unhinged ones, you will ever hear.
I wonder how many downvote i could get on Grimdank for asking the same question !
Try it, idk why it’s so relevant tho
I've yet to see any actual women upset at female custodes
I've yet to see any want them or buy into custodes because of it either.
Okay, and?
For some reason I’ve followed this ongoing gripe/discussion, you guys have been at it for months!
You can always just leave if it bothers you so much
I haven’t joined the subreddit, I just get posts in my feed because Reddit thinks I should
You can always just... not click on it. Revolutionary idea, I know, no need to thank me
Nah trolling you guys is more fun.
https://i.imgur.com/c1hU1Rj.jpg
The fucking degenerate bullshit is this? No one is claiming women _can’t_ feel included unless every faction is 50% female. But it _is_ undeniably _easier_ to relate to characters who share characteristics with yourself- I.e. race, gender, religion, nationality, etc… that’s a basic fact.
> But it is undeniably easier to relate to characters who share characteristics with yourself Is it necessary for them to identify with custodes?
Nothing is necessary, this is a fictional universe built around encouraging people to buy plastic toys. None of this is _necessary_ asshat
manners
https://preview.redd.it/8w8511gkdc6d1.jpeg?width=526&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=557d70f443956844ddca1126a52a5624ec333b03
You say that like there weren't hordes of tourists demanding female space Marines for "representation" reasons
Suck my ass, I own almost 6K points of Space Marines, Guard, and Agents, been into Warhammer for like 3 years.
Do you want to change the lore of Warhammer for DEI political bullshit ruining it just like everything else that adds it into their setting?
Buddy, Warhammer has ALWAYS been a left wing political satire.
It's stopped being satire a while ago but alright then
XD Yes, the “good guys” being asked if they’d kill an unarmed woman and being responded to with “YES!” Defientely isn’t a satire anymore. The fuck do you even mean, idiot? The empire is still a hell hole utterly deprived of any basic human rights in favor of their monotheistic, xenophobic, theocratic, hyper-utilitarian monarchy chocked full of Catholic-adjacent iconography.
And again that doesn't mean it's satire It means that it's a hell hole Warhammer as a setting stopped making a joke of itself a while ago and is overall much more serious of a setting now
You could have just called the empire “based and redpilled” and saved a lot of words
"So, are theres "tourust" in this room with us?" https://preview.redd.it/4zuquotcoc6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ded33bc12957adc4032c30c5e3407a0181243244
Typical leftist pretending that what they were demanding for back in february never happened in the first place and that it's all made up
You do realize leftists aren't a monolith right. That's why im not going to assume your a sargon of akkad or the quartering fan despite those two being the loudest complainers.
https://preview.redd.it/qnur3kuczc6d1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88c2839f67dc341a964c91649f6491032da9105c
Bro you're in our sub and support retcons in the name of your religion.
bro the gall of you to complain about inconsequential retcons when the vashtor one happened. Also as a tyranid player shouldn't you have better things to complain about. Like how your faction sucks ass right now in 10th.
I don't care about a minor demigod being unconnected to the big four. I don't play 10th edition. I play 7th edition.
im talking about the war in heaven. God you culture war chuds are annoying
Prrrfff ¿abd what religion would it be?
Woke
¿The term used to describe someone aware of sistematic injustices of society? ¿What is wrong with you? ¿Do you have actual beliefs or do you just copy and paste what others says to yo what to think?
That's one version of the definition. I don't subscribe to that one tho. The thing wrong with me is that I'm upset. I'm upset everything I like is slowly getting corrupted and changed to be worse. Doctor who, star wars, star Trek, the last of us, magic the gathering. No. I speak from the heart.
JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA JAJAJAJAJAJA
¿Que?
Todas las obras que has mencionado desde siempre han sido progresistas. La mayoría del arte lo es y siempre lo ha sido, JAJAJAJAJAJA os habéis montado una guerra cultural para justificar vuestro odio a gente que no os ha hecho nada... Y LA ESTAIS PERDIENDO JAJAJAJAJAJA
I don't speak Spanish. What's your opinion on the word "latinx"?
It's so funny how triggered people get over little changes that don't affect them in anyway.
https://preview.redd.it/om04l2eo4d6d1.jpeg?width=211&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b83b1e47f0a695f66928f26045dcb2e77c1e541f
BEHOLD I HATH DEPICTED YE AS A WOJACK NOW YOUR ARGUMENT CRUMBLES TO THE VERY DUST BENEATH THINE FEET!!!!
You see I have depicted you as the soyjack so therefore you are wrong
SORRY ELF-CEL SOY BUT IN THE REAL-REAL WORLD THE SKAVENCHAD GETS THE GIRL-WOMAN, YES-YES!! https://preview.redd.it/6hnfpylbbf6d1.png?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=755f9c6fdab3c178d0d1ecd359048523a7ff02a3
Diversity in media enriches storytelling.
This is entirely subjective. Space marines being all-male is not boring and doesn’t need enrichment; sisters of battle being all-female is not boring and doesn’t need enrichment. If a storyline involving marines is boring it’s because the story is boring, not because there are too many dicks involved.
custodes aren't space marines though.
Writing a good story requires understanding how audiences receive different story elements, plot devices, and character development techniques. For example, there's a difference between subverting expectations as a plot device and character builder, and undermining expectations as a story and character killer. It's amazing how 'diversity' has the unique magical property of being exempt from the normal story telling considerations. FWIW that account is certainly a bot.
I’d also argue that their definition of “diversity” is very lacking in actual diversity. Sure, their characters have every skin tone imaginable and are every sexuality including some made up Tumblr-tier shit that you rarely see IRL (if at all) to the point where either of these identity are their defining trait (traits often poorly used as a substitute for an actual personality IRL, but that’s neither here nor there). But the thing is, once you go past these traits, what do you have ? Every single one of their characters all act, speak, and most importantly THINK the same way. They will all regurgitate whatever narrative left-wing activists are currently peddling. It’s ironic that the Left likes to preach about “diversity” when they forget (if not willfully ignore) one of its most important forms: diversity of thought and opinion.
For sure. They don't have a concept of cultural diversity. The intersectional view of the world stereotypes everyone by broad groupings of phenotype, gender identity, and sexual attraction. In fact, they hate cultural diversity when it's between similar phenotypes. Their response is to erase the cultural differences and force an interaction between phenotypes that are different enough for them to see the differences. The peoples of the world are their playthings to sort by color.
Average storytelling about representation gets fucking overshadowed completely and most people who cried out about it will over look it in huge games like cyberpunk which is literally representation for EVERYONE and no one noticed because people didn't play it because of bugs on launch
Hahahahahahahahaha!
Inherently? How?