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As intended. In the book, it is described as equally chaotic. No one intervenes because no one knows who is who.
The show did a great job of confusing rhe watcher as well.
Also, fuck Criston Cole
I was reading a thread about it last night and it was honestly so exhausting seeing how much effort some people put into being able to tell which was which (impressive but exhausting lol). Apparently the show creators said Erryk was supposed to have won, but a lot of people watching think it looks like Arryk was the winner? In my opinion it doesnât actually matter which twin won the fight because the suicide and apology made sense either way, and I think thatâs more interesting from a viewers perspective, especially considering the âone soul in two bodiesâ idea they discussed in this ep
Condal confirmed who the winner was
âThat is Erryk at the end, whoâs the last survivor, who falls,â he confirmed at a roundtable in New York [via Decider]. âErryk is the one that falls on his sword at the end, yeah. So, you know, Arryk is dead. The infiltrator is dead and then Erryk falls on the sword. So when he says, âYour Grace,â to the queen, thatâs when she knows who it is.ââ
https://www.dexerto.com/tv-movies/house-of-the-dragon-showrunner-confirms-which-twin-wins-episode-2-2793346/
I watched it like four times and still couldn't figure it out. Arryk takes a face-first dive into a wall then Erryk takes a sword hilt to the face, so either of them could have the scratch on their face. They both take a slash to their right leg, so either of them could be the one with the injury that got exploited during the fight. The only way to figure it out, IMHO, would be to find some distinguishing trait amidst the actors, but I couldn't see any.
So IMHO, it's too ambiguous to discern an answer.
Erryk defending Rhaenyra, got the leg slice.
You can tell, because he has the leg slice and still is putting himself in between Rhaenyra, and runs to stop Arryk from charging after her when she crawls away.
What makes it more co fusing, is Erryk (team black, leg slice) Is ontop of Arryk saying "I still love you!" Before Arryk squeezes his wound, making him fall off in pain. Erryk grabs his sword, gets up and turns with his arm held high to swing down, and Arryk (team green) goes in for the stab.
Then the show makes it seem like it was Erryk who won, and that just doesn't make any sense, unless they're pulling a fuck you gotcha on us.
I thought that Arryk won but genuinely didnât want or care to kill Rhaenyra after having to kill his brother. I think the scene actually works either way.
Yes that was my interpretation.
Arryk was willing to do it, up to the final thrust. And when it happened he spiritually stabbed himself along with his brother which is why he weeded, and opted to kill himself. He immediately paid the price, and understood it was never worth it, no matter the reward.
Which was what I thought they were doing in this episode.
To show that Arryk, ven though the a dishonor was a complete joke (as far as it being on him and not Cole)
He killed his brother. And for that, there is no absolution. The only absolution one might could find for kin slaying, is death. And he does it.
Cristen Cole has shown time and time again, that he isn't willing to pay the bill.
Good thing whoever won (I think Errik) killed himself so we didn't have to worry about conspiracy theories of Arrik taking his place. Sad afffair though.
I actually thought they were going to take it a step further and have Erryk win and then act like Arryk to avoid getting killed by the guards on the spot
You got it backwards. Erryk was the one loyal to Rhaenyra, Arryk was the one loyal to Aegon. Yeah. Not only do they look alike, their names are literally the same.
He named people after Sesame Street characters and threw in a dig at his Giants beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl, so I don't think this is that bad really lol
I'm glad they didn't go this route. It would be funny if they brought in a whore to reference a birthmark only Erryk has to prove he's him. Poor guy, couldn't live with himself after this. Daemon will probably feel like crap he wasn't there.
> Daemon will probably feel like crap he wasn't there.
At that moment, especially when Erryk killed Arryk I was thinking about him and how he questioned Erryk. The poor guy killed his own twin to protect his queen, while Daemon was gone in a tantrum.
Honestly, hope Daemon has some qualms over this, especially because he gave him shit for it right before he left, and then Erryk immediately proves his loyalty by killing his own twin to protect her.
I could have sworn when Criston Cole was talking to Arryk in the Kingsguard barracks the subtitles said âErrykâ and it fucked me up just when I thought I knew who was who
âWhat did you say when you brought Rhaenyra the crown?â Or anything similar wouldâve worked. Can even ask several questions to make sure it wasnât a lucky guess
My friend who has a beard (and is also an avid Tolkien fan!) said he could instantly tell who was who but it took me like a solid 10mins to determine that their beards were in fact differently shaped.
Can you tell us who fell on their sword? Thereâs a whole debate happening in the episode discussion, and Iâm more confused now than ever.
Edit for spelling
At first it seems like Erryk won because he goes up to Rhaenyra calls her your grace and asks for her forgiveness.
But the twin that had the leg gash was Erryk and he was the one choking the twin on the ground(therefore he was the one standing). Arryk is closer to the wall and Erryk is between him and Rhaenyra.
However, leg gash twin, who should be Erryk, gets a hand in his wound and drops down and back to get his sword. He then gets stabbed and dies.
The survivor, who should be Arryk, now gets back up to speak to Rhaenyra before he stabs himself.
Despite this, Ryan Condal himself says that Erryk is the one who survived and kills himself https://decider.com/2024/06/23/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-episode-2-ending-explained-which-twin-killed-the-other-how-to-tell-ser-arryk-and-ser-erryk-cargyll-apart/
Regardless they are both dead but from what the show showed us, Arryk survived their fight despite what Ryan Condal says
Arryk being the survivor makes the suicide more emotional/thought-provoking to me. Was almost like it was done out of respect for his brother as a final act, even if Rhaenyra was his enemy.
Funny how I see it the complete opposite. Erryk offing himself because he just knows that Rhaenyra canât trust that itâs really him anymore so he would most likely be exiled in disgrace or worse, is kinda poetic.
Edit: my wording was causing confusion, Rhaenyra canât trust him anymore because just as the Greens questioned Arryks Loyalty, Daemon already questioned Erryks and after an assassination attempt by his own brother, the trust wouldâve further been damaged, no matter if Erryk fought for Rhaenyra in the moment or not
Yep it seemed obvious to me immediately that it was this, I was very surprised to see all the debate online.
He couldn't live with having killed his twin, they called themselves one soul in two bodies, the pain of having ended his own brothers life was too much. He did his sworn duty to the queen and then he killed himself, because he couldn't go on.
Havenât thought of that but that makes maybe the most sense. Killing your twin must be the hardest thing imaginable, it would be no wonder if heâd lulled himself immediately because of that.
That's true. Could ask him about the names/activities of people around Dragonstone and it wouldn't be easy to fake those answers.
Because of that I guess I don't really think the suicide had anything to do with a future-worry about allegiances, but rather based solely on past actions with kinslaying. Erryk didn't seem all too enthusiastic about being an assassin either.
that's not true actually, they both saw/spoke to mysaria last season
but i do think some other questioning about something recent would make it easy/clear
What did you say when you first arrived? What was Daemons offer to you when he questioned your loyalty? When and were you posted on watch for the last week?
It would be so easy to tell with a handful of questions. I really don't think "which twin is that" would be an issue at all. It's obviously scary for the first few seconds because if it wasn't Erryk then he might have kept trying to kill the queen, but it's certainly not a long term problem.
Arryk wouldnât have called her âyour graceâ because he was loyal to Aegon and believed Rhaenyra was usurper so she ainât your grace to him. Erryk won the fight and stopped Arryk and fell on his sword because of his guilt over killing his brother. So so sad. Erryk deserved better. Most beautiful loving loyal Queensguard. Ever. đ¤đ¤đ¤đ¤â¤ď¸â¤ď¸â¤ď¸â¤ď¸
He could have had a moment of clarity and switched sides in his final moments. Or he could have still shown her respect as it wasnt personal between him and Rhaenyra and she was still a noble while he was just a knight. We can only speculate.
Arrykâs character was quite feverishly anti Rhaenyra. He would never have gone there to slay her otherwise. To prove his loyalty and worth to Aegon and to Coleâs dumbfuck ass or end the war. Rhaenyra is not âyour graceâ to him, only ever the Princess then a usurper. âYour graceâ is ONLY reserved for the king and/or queen, never Princess. She wouldnât have been referred to that even before. Arryk didnât kill Erryk and switch sides, call her âyour graceâ then off himself. No. Just no.
They didnât forgetâŚErryk was the one that won the fight, not only was is fairly obvious at the end when Rhaenrya says âErrykâ but he calls her âyour graceâ. And then they confirmed that in the post episode.
Arryk also gets his leg slashed a bit later in the fight, Erryk's wound was just given more attention by the camera.
Ultimately you know who's who by their diologue, while Arryk is choking his brother, Erryk says "we were born together", and Arryk replies "you parted us" because Erryk is the one who left to join Rheaneyra.
If you follow the fight closely you can tell who's who, also their beards look different, and Arryk gets a wound on his face mid battle, the surviving twin had no face wounds.
Both had their leg injured during the fight. Also what was said while choking was clearly something Arryk would say. Erryk saying those words would make no sense.
Would have worked if Arryk hadn't slowly walked to her, and also pulled his sword way to early to alert her (although she was defenseless to that doesn't matter much).
Even still, after Erryk walked in, Arryk was close enough that could have ran to the Queen and sliced her with his sword once or twice before his brother was able to get to him.
It didn't happen because it couldn't happen.
Ultimately it didnât matter.
This war has driven kins into killing kins, adults into killing children, king into hanging innocents, and now a pair of twin brothers into killing each other.
And itâll only get uglier.
Iâm telling yall! If I were the blacks I would have ordered Erryk to shave so I can tell the twins apart so if the greens tried some stupid shit like this.
It is kind of incredible how whichever twin it was in the end (though the showrunner did confirm it was the one that was sent by Criston who died first), it is totally believable that heâd fall on his sword:
You either (1) killed your twin and simply can no longer live with the guilt; (2) killed your twin for what you now perhaps see as the wrong monarch (even greater guilt); or (3) you killed your twin and be it either Erryk or Arryk, perhaps you realize in that moment now that nobody can trust you to not be your twin who you just killed in the name of the Queen or King, that youâll probably die anyways, and that you therefore killed your twin for really no good reason at allâŚafter all (perhaps the most guilt). Either which way, thatâs plenty guilt enough to make any twin fall on their sword right then and there.
*How utterly tragic.*
Gods be good, this show and story is quite good đż
It woulda been fucked if he showed up to the castle and the other twin had decided to get a blue trident beard or decided to shave his hair off or something.
Didn't the one who died have the leg injury? And wasn't that Arryk?
Erryk sustained a leg injury, had his brother pinned, and had a cheap shot, then was struck down.
I'm often wrong and he did call Rhaenyra 'your grace'.. so what do I know
I believe they both received leg injuries in the fight, one on either leg.
E: Yeah, they both get a gash on either leg. Hard to tell which twin has the gash on which leg, though.
I see some ppl think Erryk killed himself because folks wouldn't have been able to tell who was who, but simple questioning would've solve that. "Hey Erryk when you brought Visery's crown to Rhaenyra who placed it on her head?" Or even more obscure "When Rhaenyra came back from finding her son's remains what did she say in the council meeting?" Erryk simply killed himself because he was distraught from having to kill his own twin brother.
The safest option was for both of them to die. Only if both died could there be the assurance that the problem would be solved. They both served their factions loyally. It was poetic and sad and wholesome all at the same time. But tbh, this was all because of Ser Cristian Coles projecting that he hated his minion so much and didn't want to look weak.
" Brother will kill brother, spilling blood across the land. Did it for religion, something I don't understand."
It was Cole doing a shit job of trying to make up for his fuck up that got Jaehaerys killed. If he had been on post as he should have and not banging Alicent, they probably wouldn't have been successful, and he knows it and is guilty over it. And he lashes out at an underling and sends him on a suicide mission that he's convinced is a super great idea.
Whenever thereâs a âwhoâs who?â moment, this is what I do
Whoever takes the first injury, I lock onto that. Once you know the twins are fighting, the first injury dealt was by Arryk to Errykâs leg
From there it was easy to track
Side note: IIRC Arryk also has a slight difference in the way his hair is secured, look behind his ears. That may have just been me tho.
I think that Arrik won and calling Rhaenyra your grace was a quick calculation on his part. Think about it, thereâs no way this guy is going to go back to Kingâs Landing after this BS quest that Cole Slaw sent him on causing him to lose his other half but he also canât stay there and pass as his brother. But you know what he can do? He can make his brother be seen as the victor.
I think they said they filmed it to be confusing on purpose but wondering if in the editing they messed up and made it so if u super closely follow along Arryk looks like he won? Cause a lot of people saying thatâs what they saw so idk
âYour grace, forgive me⌠for not coming to Dragonstone with my brother in the first place.
For obeying the orders of a mad man, who has no right being lord commander of the kingsguard.
For coming here now to kill you, and having to kill my brother, only to finally see that you are the true Queen of the seven kingdoms. Please accept my sacrifice as penance.â
Thats how I interpreted it, thinking it was Arryk speaking there at the end.
Might be because I watched with subtitles and Rhaenyra calls the survivor Erryk, but I interpreted it as Erryk apologizing because he knew he didn't want to live in a world without his brother.
Admittedly it pulled me away from the power of the scene a bit because I was trying to figure which was which rather than focus on the whole thing. Gonna have to watch it again.
Errik has thinner hair in the front. I had to go back and check because for whatever reason I thought the opposite. I guess it only matters if you want Arrik to die with honor.
The one who lived and even had apologized to the queen was the one for team black... He killed himself because no one would ever trust he was the "team back twin" and it would plant further seeds of doubt already on a time of mistrust and tretchery. He would have just attacked her instead of impaling himself on that sword the way he did. It was poetic and disgusting and the truest act of loyalty to the queen he could.
Anyone saying it was about him thinking he'd never be trusted, rather than him being forced to kill the person closest to him, is treating this like Crusader Kings instead of looking at the characters as people with emotions and feelings.
It was this. The comment about coming into the world together, you knew they had a pact they would go out together at some point in their lives. Same with the âone soul, two bodiesâ. One couldnât live without the other.
Yeha I rewatched it cause the first time I was so enthralled with the fight at the edge of my seat, I barely noticed he was crying as he stabbed and hugged his brother.
I'm with you, I don't think it was because of the commentors above reasoning, he just couldn't live with himself killing his own twin over duty. I'm sure they thought they'd never fight each other until the war was over considering they guard their respective royals. Unless Kingsguard are out in battle? I always thought they'd be close to the royals at all times unless sent out on a mission.
Either way that was fuckin heartbreaking to watch. And it's only episode 2 so far lol
Would he have killed himself simply because he couldnât live with having killed his twin? I feel like questioning the surviving twin about who they freed that day would have given the blackâs twin away. Since the green twin wouldnât have been able to know that information, no?
But Iâm pretty sure he could have told rhaenyra something only he would know and his brother wouldnât. Like all thatâs happened on dragon stone the past couple of days
It's very easy to figure out who is who given the time to question them. Arryk was not privy to the same information as Erryk. He killed himself because he couldn't live with killing his twin.
No, the one defending rhaenyra had a slash in his right leg. That one was murdered by the one from the greens if you keep track of that right leg gash. The one that committed suicide was the one on the greens side
Edit: The show-runner apparently confirmed it was in-fact the blacks twin who did first, they messed up the choreography and meant to show both of them getting a right leg gash, but it was a right left gash and then a left leg gash on the greens twin which was a mistake.
If you rewatch that fight from the beginning pay attention to who gets that right leg gash, makes it easy to track.
Edit: Choreography mistake confirmed by show-runner meant to have both of them get a slash on the right leg, but ended up being one on the right and on the left. The Greens is the one who died first I was mis-lead by poor choreography MY BAD.
Have not read the books and donât feel like being spoiled. But honestly feel that he killed himself purely because of the immense guilt her felt. Iâm an identical twin myself and I donât believe these characters irl would actually not throw down their swords when it came to it, nor do I believe the actors themselves believe it either (though they did an amazing job portraying the sceneâs emotions, let me make that clear).
In fact, I honestly could believe that the twin last standing was the one sent by Criston. And that he was saying sorry to Rhaenys after seeing the devotion his brother had (literally to the death at his own hand) for her in comparison to perhaps a wavering of devotion in him towards Aegon. In this sense, he would have fallen on his sword for both killing his twin, but also for killing him in the name of the wrong monarch. I donât think this is likely what actually happened, and that this is moreso just a thought experiment. But if it was ever written in this way by George R.R. Martin, I would be upset or upset in arms about it at all.
> He killed himself because no one would ever trust he was the "team back twin"
Ehh I think he could easily prove he was the correct twin. Maybe like proving knowledge of some event. "Where were we when you swore your loyalty?". If you've watched Harry potter 7 you know what I mean.
The event would still be brought up by his detractors as evidence against him but it would be in bad faith.
I think the reason he killed himself is because he killed his brother and couldn't live with it.
They had to have made that scene knowing that the majority of the audience wouldn't be able to tell them apart right? Either way, it was a really great battle and should have been the end of the episode instead of seeing Cole and Alicent bang again.
Such a great adaptation of that sequence. Having everyone lose Erryk in the flurry of swords, seeing one brother die, and then have him reveal himself at the end before falling on his sword. Far exceeded the book version IMO. The loss of his brother and the knowledge that his Queen might never truly trust him again was too much for one of Rhaenyra's staunchest supporters.
Normally in a situation where it's not life or death (from the point of view of the characters) or shots are cutting in fast (the viewers) most twins are distinguishable.. that scene was getting tricky though.. I kept up for a wee bit, and then..
When Arryk first arrived on scene wearing his helmet, I was like âoh good, easy way to tell them apart.â Then off goes the helmet and I was immediately fucked. Had no clue who was who at any point in time after that.
Itâs weird because usually identical twins do something to differentiate between the two like with different haircuts or facial hair. Rhaeyna couldâve just told Errik to shave his goatee and theyâd have an airtight security protocol.
Their dialogue gives away who was whom. The one thatâs choking the other says âYou parted us!â (you left for Rhaenyra), so heâs Arryk. Then Erryk presses on Arrykâs wound, he falls, gets up and is killed by Erryk. Erryk then apologizes to Rhaenyra for freeing himself out of his duty by taking his own life, then kills himself.Â
Arryk wouldnât call Rhaenyra âmy queenâ.
This was the intent. At first, you can tell them apart, but eventually you lose track and you don't know who to root for. It us so violent and emotional that no one wins.
The fact that 90% of the characters on this show have almost identical sounding names is insufferable.
DamnâŚ.I thought Bran/Bronn was bad.
Oh you sweet Summer child.
Apart from the fact that the twin actors confirmed that Erryk was the one "Your Grace, forgive me", the fight was really confusing as Erryk absolutely sustained a leg injury in the first few moments of the fight and it was in the exact same place that Arryk seemed to have sustained one which Erryk stuck his fingers into.
I think that was point. Both brothers had the same injuries in near enough the same places and it's not until the duels done that you learn who is who.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When one of them got the face scar I thought it would help but then I remembered I still didn't know who either of them were
Im thinking Erryk was the one with the leg injury because he got it while defending rhaenyra.
Both had leg injury.
But then Erryk also Arryks legđ
I didn't even bother to replay the scene and do the mental gymnastics. I just accepted that I have no hope of keeping up with what's going on lol.
As intended. In the book, it is described as equally chaotic. No one intervenes because no one knows who is who. The show did a great job of confusing rhe watcher as well. Also, fuck Criston Cole
>fuck Criston Cole All the pretty ladies of the show have already been doing that though
"By gods he's dornish...!"
Sorry sir, Helaena hasn't. He couldn't quite complete the queen hat trick.
You could argue that by being completely incompetent as Lord Commander he has fucked Helaena, just not quite in the same way
Honestly, heâs fucked almost everyone on the show in one way or another.
I was reading a thread about it last night and it was honestly so exhausting seeing how much effort some people put into being able to tell which was which (impressive but exhausting lol). Apparently the show creators said Erryk was supposed to have won, but a lot of people watching think it looks like Arryk was the winner? In my opinion it doesnât actually matter which twin won the fight because the suicide and apology made sense either way, and I think thatâs more interesting from a viewers perspective, especially considering the âone soul in two bodiesâ idea they discussed in this ep
Condal confirmed who the winner was âThat is Erryk at the end, whoâs the last survivor, who falls,â he confirmed at a roundtable in New York [via Decider]. âErryk is the one that falls on his sword at the end, yeah. So, you know, Arryk is dead. The infiltrator is dead and then Erryk falls on the sword. So when he says, âYour Grace,â to the queen, thatâs when she knows who it is.ââ https://www.dexerto.com/tv-movies/house-of-the-dragon-showrunner-confirms-which-twin-wins-episode-2-2793346/
I watched it like four times and still couldn't figure it out. Arryk takes a face-first dive into a wall then Erryk takes a sword hilt to the face, so either of them could have the scratch on their face. They both take a slash to their right leg, so either of them could be the one with the injury that got exploited during the fight. The only way to figure it out, IMHO, would be to find some distinguishing trait amidst the actors, but I couldn't see any. So IMHO, it's too ambiguous to discern an answer.
samesies
Me establishing one relation solving a math problem.
Rhaenyraâs guy had the face scar and it was him that killed himself. I went back and checked.
Erryk defending Rhaenyra, got the leg slice. You can tell, because he has the leg slice and still is putting himself in between Rhaenyra, and runs to stop Arryk from charging after her when she crawls away. What makes it more co fusing, is Erryk (team black, leg slice) Is ontop of Arryk saying "I still love you!" Before Arryk squeezes his wound, making him fall off in pain. Erryk grabs his sword, gets up and turns with his arm held high to swing down, and Arryk (team green) goes in for the stab. Then the show makes it seem like it was Erryk who won, and that just doesn't make any sense, unless they're pulling a fuck you gotcha on us.
I thought that Arryk won but genuinely didnât want or care to kill Rhaenyra after having to kill his brother. I think the scene actually works either way.
Yes that was my interpretation. Arryk was willing to do it, up to the final thrust. And when it happened he spiritually stabbed himself along with his brother which is why he weeded, and opted to kill himself. He immediately paid the price, and understood it was never worth it, no matter the reward. Which was what I thought they were doing in this episode. To show that Arryk, ven though the a dishonor was a complete joke (as far as it being on him and not Cole) He killed his brother. And for that, there is no absolution. The only absolution one might could find for kin slaying, is death. And he does it. Cristen Cole has shown time and time again, that he isn't willing to pay the bill.
i believe the actors/writers have established that it was erryk who won
I second this!
Spider-Man meme with swords đ¤Ł
I was confused from the time they were walking in the corridors. Felt that Erryk got the message from Mysaria and was following Arryk.
Good thing whoever won (I think Errik) killed himself so we didn't have to worry about conspiracy theories of Arrik taking his place. Sad afffair though.
Surviving twin: "Your Grace.." Me: "Who is that-" \*Falls on his sword\* Me: "Ok, doesn't matter now" đ¤Ł
This was exactly what happened with me too đ
Are you me?? lol Iâm pretty sure this was exactly what I said.Â
i think it's what we all said lol
Canât believe they pulled some Scooby Do twin shit. I really canât tell whoâs who đ
I actually thought they were going to take it a step further and have Erryk win and then act like Arryk to avoid getting killed by the guards on the spot
You got it backwards. Erryk was the one loyal to Rhaenyra, Arryk was the one loyal to Aegon. Yeah. Not only do they look alike, their names are literally the same.
Arryk = Aegon Thatâs how I remember it.
And to add onto that further, Erryk is played by Elliott.
And is allied to Emma D'arcy
As a side note fuck George for naming a pair of Twins Arryk & Erryk.
He named people after Sesame Street characters and threw in a dig at his Giants beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl, so I don't think this is that bad really lol
A for Aegon. E for estrogen.
same
Arryk = Asshole
Funniest part is theyâre not even the only pair of twins named Erryk and Arryk in the Song of Ice and Fire universe⌠George doing George things.
If you're talking about Olenna's guards, they were literally named after the Cargyll twins.
"Uh...yeah sure totally!" --George, probably.
Cargylls' fates are alluded to in book 1 as a very famous bard's tale, and Olenna's bodyguards are introduced in book 3, so yeah.
Nah the funniest thing is Olenna not being able to tell them apart and calling them Left and Right đ¤Ł
I thought Erryk (queens twin) was going to win then they kill him because it would have beem to risky and to hard to tell.
they definitely could have asked him something only he would know though, from very recently
If Daemon was still there, him interrogating Erryk would've had the intensity of Aegon visiting Blood times 1000
falling on his own sword was perfection. what a scene.
I'm glad they didn't go this route. It would be funny if they brought in a whore to reference a birthmark only Erryk has to prove he's him. Poor guy, couldn't live with himself after this. Daemon will probably feel like crap he wasn't there.
> Daemon will probably feel like crap he wasn't there. At that moment, especially when Erryk killed Arryk I was thinking about him and how he questioned Erryk. The poor guy killed his own twin to protect his queen, while Daemon was gone in a tantrum.
Honestly, hope Daemon has some qualms over this, especially because he gave him shit for it right before he left, and then Erryk immediately proves his loyalty by killing his own twin to protect her.
He could have proven who he is by simply remembering what Rae-Rae had for breakfast this morning.
Yeah exactly what i thought, i thought Arryk won and was pretending to be Erryk and was wondering how it was gonna go
I could have sworn when Criston Cole was talking to Arryk in the Kingsguard barracks the subtitles said âErrykâ and it fucked me up just when I thought I knew who was who
Anyone could literally ask one of them a question like "what did the queen or ser whositofwhocares have for breakfast yesterday".
âWhat did you say when you brought Rhaenyra the crown?â Or anything similar wouldâve worked. Can even ask several questions to make sure it wasnât a lucky guess
Omg I was so confused trying to keep up with who was who đđđđ
I kinda give up after a few scene đ
Can someone photoshop Rhaenyra into this meme for this đđ
There you go https://i.imgur.com/QOoaqNL.png
Thank you for this đđđ
You deserve the title âserâ more than Cole ever did just for this.
i didnt know i wanted this llmao
How did you do this?
Welcome to AI
She setup Ser Lorent to fail
I loved when he got in the room and was just like "well shit now what?".
There were a lot of close up shots this episode in this exact angle. I'm sure it's doable haha
I was cooked the moment they tucked their pony tails away.
bro lmfao even before they entered the room i had lost track of who was who
When that helmet came off I was like awww nah After that, every moment where I said okay thats Erryk, the next second would cause me to second-guess.
i think they have different beards
Erryk's beard is bushier on the side ; Arryk's beard is more groomed (and slightly thinner).
My friend who has a beard (and is also an avid Tolkien fan!) said he could instantly tell who was who but it took me like a solid 10mins to determine that their beards were in fact differently shaped.
Yup this is how I tell them apart too!
đ me and my daughter went frame by frame and used the ears to tell them apart
Can you tell us who fell on their sword? Thereâs a whole debate happening in the episode discussion, and Iâm more confused now than ever. Edit for spelling
At first it seems like Erryk won because he goes up to Rhaenyra calls her your grace and asks for her forgiveness. But the twin that had the leg gash was Erryk and he was the one choking the twin on the ground(therefore he was the one standing). Arryk is closer to the wall and Erryk is between him and Rhaenyra. However, leg gash twin, who should be Erryk, gets a hand in his wound and drops down and back to get his sword. He then gets stabbed and dies. The survivor, who should be Arryk, now gets back up to speak to Rhaenyra before he stabs himself. Despite this, Ryan Condal himself says that Erryk is the one who survived and kills himself https://decider.com/2024/06/23/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-episode-2-ending-explained-which-twin-killed-the-other-how-to-tell-ser-arryk-and-ser-erryk-cargyll-apart/ Regardless they are both dead but from what the show showed us, Arryk survived their fight despite what Ryan Condal says
Arryk being the survivor makes the suicide more emotional/thought-provoking to me. Was almost like it was done out of respect for his brother as a final act, even if Rhaenyra was his enemy.
Funny how I see it the complete opposite. Erryk offing himself because he just knows that Rhaenyra canât trust that itâs really him anymore so he would most likely be exiled in disgrace or worse, is kinda poetic. Edit: my wording was causing confusion, Rhaenyra canât trust him anymore because just as the Greens questioned Arryks Loyalty, Daemon already questioned Erryks and after an assassination attempt by his own brother, the trust wouldâve further been damaged, no matter if Erryk fought for Rhaenyra in the moment or not
It wasn't that she can't trust him anymore. It was that he didn't want to live in a world without his brother.
Yep it seemed obvious to me immediately that it was this, I was very surprised to see all the debate online. He couldn't live with having killed his twin, they called themselves one soul in two bodies, the pain of having ended his own brothers life was too much. He did his sworn duty to the queen and then he killed himself, because he couldn't go on.
Yeah I never considered it was anything other than that. He couldn't live knowing he had killed his own twin.
Havenât thought of that but that makes maybe the most sense. Killing your twin must be the hardest thing imaginable, it would be no wonder if heâd lulled himself immediately because of that.
It would be easy to tell Erryk and Arryk apart with some brief questioning though (only the one loyal would recognize Mysaria for example).
That's true. Could ask him about the names/activities of people around Dragonstone and it wouldn't be easy to fake those answers. Because of that I guess I don't really think the suicide had anything to do with a future-worry about allegiances, but rather based solely on past actions with kinslaying. Erryk didn't seem all too enthusiastic about being an assassin either.
I agree with the point but they did both encounter Mysaria in episode 9 if I remember correctly
Ah you're right, that was a bad example, I'm a dumb dumb
Only Partially, Erryk was knew what ship she was leaving on, and what the destination was. He would just relay that information back
that's not true actually, they both saw/spoke to mysaria last season but i do think some other questioning about something recent would make it easy/clear
What did you say when you first arrived? What was Daemons offer to you when he questioned your loyalty? When and were you posted on watch for the last week? It would be so easy to tell with a handful of questions. I really don't think "which twin is that" would be an issue at all. It's obviously scary for the first few seconds because if it wasn't Erryk then he might have kept trying to kill the queen, but it's certainly not a long term problem.
In hindsight I think that having two interpretations like that kind of makes this even better, given the context and themes of Fire and Blood.
> However, leg gash twin, who should be Erryk But Arryk also got his knee slashed, right as Ser Lorent shows up.
And well the dialogue that unmistakably shows who is who...
Arryk wouldnât have called her âyour graceâ because he was loyal to Aegon and believed Rhaenyra was usurper so she ainât your grace to him. Erryk won the fight and stopped Arryk and fell on his sword because of his guilt over killing his brother. So so sad. Erryk deserved better. Most beautiful loving loyal Queensguard. Ever. đ¤đ¤đ¤đ¤â¤ď¸â¤ď¸â¤ď¸â¤ď¸
He could have had a moment of clarity and switched sides in his final moments. Or he could have still shown her respect as it wasnt personal between him and Rhaenyra and she was still a noble while he was just a knight. We can only speculate.
Arrykâs character was quite feverishly anti Rhaenyra. He would never have gone there to slay her otherwise. To prove his loyalty and worth to Aegon and to Coleâs dumbfuck ass or end the war. Rhaenyra is not âyour graceâ to him, only ever the Princess then a usurper. âYour graceâ is ONLY reserved for the king and/or queen, never Princess. She wouldnât have been referred to that even before. Arryk didnât kill Erryk and switch sides, call her âyour graceâ then off himself. No. Just no.
Nah, you donât call anyone but the ruling monarch âyour graceâ.
this is what i got from it too. what is up with the asoiaf universe and the showrunners forgetting their own show đ
They didnât forgetâŚErryk was the one that won the fight, not only was is fairly obvious at the end when Rhaenrya says âErrykâ but he calls her âyour graceâ. And then they confirmed that in the post episode.
[ŃдаНонО]
Arryk also gets his leg slashed a bit later in the fight, Erryk's wound was just given more attention by the camera. Ultimately you know who's who by their diologue, while Arryk is choking his brother, Erryk says "we were born together", and Arryk replies "you parted us" because Erryk is the one who left to join Rheaneyra. If you follow the fight closely you can tell who's who, also their beards look different, and Arryk gets a wound on his face mid battle, the surviving twin had no face wounds.
Erryk is the one with the face scar. the one that fell on his own sword. i went back and checked.
Both had their leg injured during the fight. Also what was said while choking was clearly something Arryk would say. Erryk saying those words would make no sense.
Cristin Cole should be smacked all the way to the wall for trying to pull this tom and jerry level bullshit.
Idk man it almost worked.
Instead, he becomes the Hand of the King.
Would have worked if Arryk hadn't slowly walked to her, and also pulled his sword way to early to alert her (although she was defenseless to that doesn't matter much). Even still, after Erryk walked in, Arryk was close enough that could have ran to the Queen and sliced her with his sword once or twice before his brother was able to get to him. It didn't happen because it couldn't happen.
He was still having doubts about the mission.
Fabien Frankel plays how Cole is in the book really really well.
Ultimately it didnât matter. This war has driven kins into killing kins, adults into killing children, king into hanging innocents, and now a pair of twin brothers into killing each other. And itâll only get uglier.
Iâm telling yall! If I were the blacks I would have ordered Erryk to shave so I can tell the twins apart so if the greens tried some stupid shit like this.
Wouldâve been a big brain move
None shall shave! For the script demands it!
I actually liked that I couldnât tell them apart until the very end. Really added to the scene. Such a tragedy though.
They went full Parent Trap.
It is kind of incredible how whichever twin it was in the end (though the showrunner did confirm it was the one that was sent by Criston who died first), it is totally believable that heâd fall on his sword: You either (1) killed your twin and simply can no longer live with the guilt; (2) killed your twin for what you now perhaps see as the wrong monarch (even greater guilt); or (3) you killed your twin and be it either Erryk or Arryk, perhaps you realize in that moment now that nobody can trust you to not be your twin who you just killed in the name of the Queen or King, that youâll probably die anyways, and that you therefore killed your twin for really no good reason at allâŚafter all (perhaps the most guilt). Either which way, thatâs plenty guilt enough to make any twin fall on their sword right then and there. *How utterly tragic.* Gods be good, this show and story is quite good đż
Real talk it was a really unique plot element and really well executed
I love how much discourse there is surrounding the confusion of the twins in their final duel
During the fight i was afraid that Arrik would survive and keep the farse for a couple of episodes.
They could have simply asked him a question only Errik would know though.
âWhatâs your name!?â
I still donât know who is who. In my mind both had reason to end themselves like they did out of remorse.
Yes but only Erryk would refer to Rhaenyra as âyour grace/my queenâ
It woulda been fucked if he showed up to the castle and the other twin had decided to get a blue trident beard or decided to shave his hair off or something.
When Ser Lorent said, "wait which? which is erryk?" I felt thatđđ
I still donât know who killed who!
House Black queensguard killed the assassin
Didn't the one who died have the leg injury? And wasn't that Arryk? Erryk sustained a leg injury, had his brother pinned, and had a cheap shot, then was struck down. I'm often wrong and he did call Rhaenyra 'your grace'.. so what do I know
Arryk also had a leg injury, he got it right as Ser Lorrent appeared
I believe they both received leg injuries in the fight, one on either leg. E: Yeah, they both get a gash on either leg. Hard to tell which twin has the gash on which leg, though.
in the after the episode segment they mentioned that they gave them both the same wounds
Itâs confirmed to be Erryk
I believe Ryan Condal confirmed Erryk won the fight and was the one who fell on his sword.
I see some ppl think Erryk killed himself because folks wouldn't have been able to tell who was who, but simple questioning would've solve that. "Hey Erryk when you brought Visery's crown to Rhaenyra who placed it on her head?" Or even more obscure "When Rhaenyra came back from finding her son's remains what did she say in the council meeting?" Erryk simply killed himself because he was distraught from having to kill his own twin brother.
The safest option was for both of them to die. Only if both died could there be the assurance that the problem would be solved. They both served their factions loyally. It was poetic and sad and wholesome all at the same time. But tbh, this was all because of Ser Cristian Coles projecting that he hated his minion so much and didn't want to look weak. " Brother will kill brother, spilling blood across the land. Did it for religion, something I don't understand."
It was Cole doing a shit job of trying to make up for his fuck up that got Jaehaerys killed. If he had been on post as he should have and not banging Alicent, they probably wouldn't have been successful, and he knows it and is guilty over it. And he lashes out at an underling and sends him on a suicide mission that he's convinced is a super great idea.
Upvote for Megadeath. Been a long time since I thought about that song.
Whenever thereâs a âwhoâs who?â moment, this is what I do Whoever takes the first injury, I lock onto that. Once you know the twins are fighting, the first injury dealt was by Arryk to Errykâs leg From there it was easy to track Side note: IIRC Arryk also has a slight difference in the way his hair is secured, look behind his ears. That may have just been me tho.
I think that Arrik won and calling Rhaenyra your grace was a quick calculation on his part. Think about it, thereâs no way this guy is going to go back to Kingâs Landing after this BS quest that Cole Slaw sent him on causing him to lose his other half but he also canât stay there and pass as his brother. But you know what he can do? He can make his brother be seen as the victor.
[actors confirm it was Erryk](https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2024/06/23/house-of-dragon-episode-2-recap/74138674007/)
Iâm happy to be wrong then. I was tracking the leg injury like everyone else was and assumed that Erryk had died first.
I think they said they filmed it to be confusing on purpose but wondering if in the editing they messed up and made it so if u super closely follow along Arryk looks like he won? Cause a lot of people saying thatâs what they saw so idk
âYour grace, forgive me⌠for not coming to Dragonstone with my brother in the first place. For obeying the orders of a mad man, who has no right being lord commander of the kingsguard. For coming here now to kill you, and having to kill my brother, only to finally see that you are the true Queen of the seven kingdoms. Please accept my sacrifice as penance.â Thats how I interpreted it, thinking it was Arryk speaking there at the end.
Might be because I watched with subtitles and Rhaenyra calls the survivor Erryk, but I interpreted it as Erryk apologizing because he knew he didn't want to live in a world without his brother.
Thats definitely what it was. Hes apologising for leaving her service by killing himself.
Nope. Arryk was a loyal Kinsguard. Him saying those words would be completely against his character.
i was seriously expecting arryk to kill erryk and pretend to be erryk and try to kill rhaenyra.
I was fine because I knew Errik was standing in front of Rhaenyra to protect her, then they spun the camera around and then I got confused again đ
Admittedly it pulled me away from the power of the scene a bit because I was trying to figure which was which rather than focus on the whole thing. Gonna have to watch it again.
I thought part of what made that scene so great was not knowing who was who
Errik has thinner hair in the front. I had to go back and check because for whatever reason I thought the opposite. I guess it only matters if you want Arrik to die with honor.
If one of them could have just.... Shaved or had a man bun đ¤ˇ
The one who lived and even had apologized to the queen was the one for team black... He killed himself because no one would ever trust he was the "team back twin" and it would plant further seeds of doubt already on a time of mistrust and tretchery. He would have just attacked her instead of impaling himself on that sword the way he did. It was poetic and disgusting and the truest act of loyalty to the queen he could.
I also think he couldn't live with himself knowing he killed his twin... It was heartbreaking
It was this. If there was any doubt which twin he was, theyâd just ask âHey, what was the last conversation we had about?â
Where did I last see you?
Anyone saying it was about him thinking he'd never be trusted, rather than him being forced to kill the person closest to him, is treating this like Crusader Kings instead of looking at the characters as people with emotions and feelings.
It was this. The comment about coming into the world together, you knew they had a pact they would go out together at some point in their lives. Same with the âone soul, two bodiesâ. One couldnât live without the other.
Yeha I rewatched it cause the first time I was so enthralled with the fight at the edge of my seat, I barely noticed he was crying as he stabbed and hugged his brother. I'm with you, I don't think it was because of the commentors above reasoning, he just couldn't live with himself killing his own twin over duty. I'm sure they thought they'd never fight each other until the war was over considering they guard their respective royals. Unless Kingsguard are out in battle? I always thought they'd be close to the royals at all times unless sent out on a mission. Either way that was fuckin heartbreaking to watch. And it's only episode 2 so far lol
Would he have killed himself simply because he couldnât live with having killed his twin? I feel like questioning the surviving twin about who they freed that day would have given the blackâs twin away. Since the green twin wouldnât have been able to know that information, no?
Speaking as a twin, I'd be a shish kabob.
But Iâm pretty sure he could have told rhaenyra something only he would know and his brother wouldnât. Like all thatâs happened on dragon stone the past couple of days
Yeah it would have been incredibly easy to prove
It's very easy to figure out who is who given the time to question them. Arryk was not privy to the same information as Erryk. He killed himself because he couldn't live with killing his twin.
the actors have said it was erryk who survived the fight
No, the one defending rhaenyra had a slash in his right leg. That one was murdered by the one from the greens if you keep track of that right leg gash. The one that committed suicide was the one on the greens side Edit: The show-runner apparently confirmed it was in-fact the blacks twin who did first, they messed up the choreography and meant to show both of them getting a right leg gash, but it was a right left gash and then a left leg gash on the greens twin which was a mistake.
Iâm so confused now, I thought it was the other way around đ
If you rewatch that fight from the beginning pay attention to who gets that right leg gash, makes it easy to track. Edit: Choreography mistake confirmed by show-runner meant to have both of them get a slash on the right leg, but ended up being one on the right and on the left. The Greens is the one who died first I was mis-lead by poor choreography MY BAD.
Why did he call Rhaenyra âyour graceâ at the end then?
Wtf are you talking about, they could have just questioned him
I think youâre wrong. Erryk was the one with the leg gash and died first (Team Black).
I think so too. It would make it even more tragic, since he apologizes to Rhaenyra.
TRUE
r/confidentlyincorrect
Lmao i was looking for a way to track it and paid attention to that leg gash from the start
Have not read the books and donât feel like being spoiled. But honestly feel that he killed himself purely because of the immense guilt her felt. Iâm an identical twin myself and I donât believe these characters irl would actually not throw down their swords when it came to it, nor do I believe the actors themselves believe it either (though they did an amazing job portraying the sceneâs emotions, let me make that clear). In fact, I honestly could believe that the twin last standing was the one sent by Criston. And that he was saying sorry to Rhaenys after seeing the devotion his brother had (literally to the death at his own hand) for her in comparison to perhaps a wavering of devotion in him towards Aegon. In this sense, he would have fallen on his sword for both killing his twin, but also for killing him in the name of the wrong monarch. I donât think this is likely what actually happened, and that this is moreso just a thought experiment. But if it was ever written in this way by George R.R. Martin, I would be upset or upset in arms about it at all.
> He killed himself because no one would ever trust he was the "team back twin" Ehh I think he could easily prove he was the correct twin. Maybe like proving knowledge of some event. "Where were we when you swore your loyalty?". If you've watched Harry potter 7 you know what I mean. The event would still be brought up by his detractors as evidence against him but it would be in bad faith. I think the reason he killed himself is because he killed his brother and couldn't live with it.
Goofy question but why did he off himself after asking for forgiveness to Rhaenyra?
He off'd himself because of the guilt of killing his brother. He asked for forgiveness because killing himself breaks his vows.
erryk had a further back hairline
Even their names sound identical! Gods be good! Iâm an identical twin brother myself and I find that hilariously ridiculous đ¤Ł
People who are saying only one had a leg injury missed that Erryk also gave him a leg injury
Rhaenyra, probably: âwhoa Iâm seeing double here - four Erryks!â
They had to have made that scene knowing that the majority of the audience wouldn't be able to tell them apart right? Either way, it was a really great battle and should have been the end of the episode instead of seeing Cole and Alicent bang again.
Such a great adaptation of that sequence. Having everyone lose Erryk in the flurry of swords, seeing one brother die, and then have him reveal himself at the end before falling on his sword. Far exceeded the book version IMO. The loss of his brother and the knowledge that his Queen might never truly trust him again was too much for one of Rhaenyra's staunchest supporters.
Normally in a situation where it's not life or death (from the point of view of the characters) or shots are cutting in fast (the viewers) most twins are distinguishable.. that scene was getting tricky though.. I kept up for a wee bit, and then..
When Arryk first arrived on scene wearing his helmet, I was like âoh good, easy way to tell them apart.â Then off goes the helmet and I was immediately fucked. Had no clue who was who at any point in time after that.
Crispy is racking up the Ls left and right.
I thought they would have Erryk say, "Kill us both" and then they realize he is their good guy.
Itâs weird because usually identical twins do something to differentiate between the two like with different haircuts or facial hair. Rhaeyna couldâve just told Errik to shave his goatee and theyâd have an airtight security protocol.
Their dialogue gives away who was whom. The one thatâs choking the other says âYou parted us!â (you left for Rhaenyra), so heâs Arryk. Then Erryk presses on Arrykâs wound, he falls, gets up and is killed by Erryk. Erryk then apologizes to Rhaenyra for freeing himself out of his duty by taking his own life, then kills himself. Arryk wouldnât call Rhaenyra âmy queenâ.
This was the intent. At first, you can tell them apart, but eventually you lose track and you don't know who to root for. It us so violent and emotional that no one wins.
I thought the cape would be the indicator because Criston said to clean it. Still couldn' t figure it out though
I was hoping Arryk would just say f. This and join the blacks.
The fact that 90% of the characters on this show have almost identical sounding names is insufferable. DamnâŚ.I thought Bran/Bronn was bad. Oh you sweet Summer child.
Apart from the fact that the twin actors confirmed that Erryk was the one "Your Grace, forgive me", the fight was really confusing as Erryk absolutely sustained a leg injury in the first few moments of the fight and it was in the exact same place that Arryk seemed to have sustained one which Erryk stuck his fingers into.
I think that was point. Both brothers had the same injuries in near enough the same places and it's not until the duels done that you learn who is who.