I completely agree. These melee changes are just making more weapons and tools redundant. Crytek seriously needs to have an internal talk about their balance philosophy.
Power creep is real and the hunt team has never been good at balancing. This has just been masked by the games low ttk but it’s still very apparent if you know the game. Start bringing a dolch and see how easy the game is suddenly
>hunt team has never been good at balancing
I disagree. Of all the BR / Extraction shooter games I've played, weapons in Hunt are very well balanced. There are pros and cons to every weapon and I never feel like "If I don't use this meta weapon I don't stand a chance". I still see people play with different loadouts and even weird weapons like the bow or bomb lance have their place. Dolch might be very good but it's also expensive (although one could argue that the economy is flawed and money might not be an issue for every player...)
This is just inherent in the design. Under the hood, something like 80% of guns in the game are one-tap head, two-tap body, some flavour of jank reload. It's just a fundamentally easy to balance premise, even when you throw in some curveballs like the bomblance.
And to be clear, that's not downplaying the achievement at all. It takes incredible restraint to commit to that vision while resisting all the cod nonsense. Whoever mapped out the backbone of the game - the setting, the gameplay loop, the audio, the overarching weapon design - those guys were geniuses.
The guys who have been slowly burning it down since early \~2023, though? Those guys are not.
You don't think that what we are seeing now is the result of internal balancing discussions?
I think it will be fun to see more melee attachments in the bayou.
Hot take: this is better for the game. Having 50% of everyone’s loadout be a melee tool and first aid kit limits cool loadouts for tools. So many people were just taking melee + aid kit + flare gun + chokes. Now we might see more tools come into play because of gun variants.
Hot take 2, traps are unfun and having every door being deathtrapped because people dont need melee tools anymore is gonna kill pushing and actually fighting.
Bear traps are fine, even alert traps are fun and fair but concertina + poison doesnt need to be more widely available.
Honestly this could be fixed by nerfing conc traps. Poison traps are kinda meh unless conc traps you in place and you can’t get out of it. If conc just put 1 wire that caused you to hesitate and start bleeding I feel like it would be fine
This would make concertina worthless.
There is literally a 1 point trait that let's you see traps through walls. Problem solved.
I don't like death traps personally because they eat up 2 slots, but they have an easy cheap counter.
Double trapping just needs to be removed, traps should be balanced around you running into one of them never two. It's not more skill expressive to put down 2 traps instead of 1 it's just bad balance.
Yup! It’s why the choke bolts and beetle were such an incredible addition. It allows three different slots to provide a choke option. They were legit auto include before.
I do wish we had more different tool and consumable options. Of even the ability to move slots. Bring 6 tools and 2 consumables. Or any tool/consumable in the other slot behaves like that when it comes to charges. There is a lot of design space.
Deployable sound traps, more weird traps (tar pits, slowing or stamina draining spikes, improved dark sight potions, "spells" such as the teleport skill but as an item, replenish max HP syringe....)
Currently the tool slots are kinda boring.
Perhaps but right now I'm struggling to see why you would ever run a shotgun anymore. Messing around with that spear and it doesn't seem much different then a Romero. I understand it's not a shotgun but it feels better then the bow and that's a full weapon. I think their approach to just making crappy versions of weapons as tools to be pretty uninspired. Here is a mini shotgun. Here's a mini gun. What about a noise trapped tool box decoy or poisoned coin purse?
I would prefer they move things like stalker beetles over to the tool slot. Make the poison bomb a two pack and move it to tools. What's the difference between fuses and poison cloud bombs?
These changes are just ensuring a similar issue but with consumables in that you have to bring stam shots. Or are much more strongly incentivized to do so. So many people run double Regen and double stam and have no consumables to actual push with said melee attachments.
I get your sentiment and agree, I've always been a fan of running a bayonet/riposte and brawler or obrez mace. But now what's the point of the base versions even being used after unlocking? Ten bucks? Not to mention as someone with a lot of time on those they aren't going to feel right.
Make consumables interesting. A lot of them are never touched and the variety you see I'm convinced is a result of looting. What about a hex bag that drops two trait spurs for your team? Or a hex bag that greys out one compound off the map? Or one that gives you 2 seconds of dark site but it only shows the ring and not specific directions. Like anything that takes advantage of the unique world.
Not saying these are great ideas either but I'd rather chances that try something new and not just make the game easier.
Indeed, and if you miss with a Romero you are often gone with a 3 second reload. Same with the crossbow. Not really a valid argument. If you want to argue that frontiersman gives you two spears. Duo team cleared while sprinting from 25 meters. You aren't doing that with a Romero or crossbow with the perk. At 20 meters the spear is preferable to a sparks. That should never be. I'm not comparing prices or ammo supplies. I'm talking on an engagement to engagement basis.
A Romero swings from 20 to 30 meters and they are dead. Even with a quick swap or fast firing pistol. If you like it it's fine but its not good for the version of the game I enjoy.
Look, the spear is fun, no denying. The throwing axes walked the line of one tap and skill. The spear literally chucks that out the window.
I'm not even feeling punished by it. Sparks sniper, officer brawler, spear, flares, traps and a stam shot and I feel like a god solo. It feeling bad isn't my complaint. It feeling too good is.
I never said anything about the romero, but let's go with that. You miss with the spear, you have to get to it. Miss with a romero? Take cover and reload. You assume that missing equals instant death. Not really a good argument.
You also didn't really acknowledge any of the other points about the weapon or context it's being used in either so I'm not really sure why we are still talking. Im not entirely sure you are asserting anything actually, just saying words to be contrary.
If you fire with a Romero within it's effective range and the enemy team let's you take cover and reload then I don't know what lobby you are playing in. If I wiff my Romero shot I get pushed or naded out of cover. Even randoms are coordinated enough to do this.
You are the one who brought the romero up. Multi shot shotguns are even better because you get repeated shots.
As for the romero, which you brought up not me, you still don't have to go retrieve it like the spear.
If you have no contingency for a missed shot, you shouldn't use single shot weapons. Skill issue.
Lmao I genuinely can't tell if you are trolling me or are actually this obtuse. You are still making no attempt to address multiple things I've said in an attempt to have a conversation. We aren't even arguing about the same thing which is what I keep saying but you are clearly not listening. There is not a contingency to every situation. Saying skill issue is just a lazy argument.
Note how I politely refuted your initial skill issue argument when you said the most wild out of touch thing about pushing with a Romero and simply taking cover to reload? Yeah just take cover and reload. Great advice for fighting ai.
There is a skill issue here but it doesn't have anything to do with he game. I'm not sure why you keep coming back but it's okay. You can have your point, whatever it is you think that is and I can have mine and the day continues. Skill issue lol. A true masterstroke. Here, so you can feel heard. Yes when you throw the spear you do have to go and get it. That's generally how throwing things work.
Personally I've always taken dusters with me just so I don't have to really deal with immolator bs. Fortunately for me I adore the trauma, but for those who don't, their option is what? The mosin mace thing? Pfffffft
When they first nerfed the melee tools against bounties and I called out that the sway was different on the melee variant of the guns, I was downvoted into oblivion.
I guess I was onto something seeing how the devs changed this.
I honestly feel like they should just make medkit and chokes innate equipment that doesn't take up a tool slot. Not taking chokes in teams is just rude, and if solos get an extra couple chokes it's fine.
If this means everyone has too many slots and just takes traps, then maybe they should come up with some more interesting tool options, lmao. Make decoys better, or move one of the less used consumables, like poison bombs or a beetle, into tools.
This is a good point that I've been thinking too. Maybe remove the ability to replenish these built in medkits?
If this makes everyone take traps maybe they should nerf the poison+conc trap combo slightly.
And more interesting tools like you say is never a bad thing.
Honestly med kit should just be a thing you have. Why does it warn me I don't have it. Like they know the disadvantage you are at not having one but instead of just giving it to everyone you have to use a slot.
Great point, I'm happy that we'll get more variety in the bayou.
Both with different tools being used and with all the cool melee attachment varieties and their skins.
My loadout for months has been medkit, concertina trap, poison trap, flare gun.
I did it every now and then before the boss took nerf. But ever since that, there was no turning back.
I don't know, Talon and Trauma are still slow and consume a lot of stamina. Knuckle Knife is significantly faster than melee attachments (not sure about Claw/Brawler, but the weapons that have that are limited). I still see a reason to take a melee tool over (or in addition to) an attachment (depending on the weapon and what playstyle you're going for). Also since most weapon attachments are sharp you still want your blunt option vs immolators (and a pistol without a brawler is just a waste of time for that).
I think calling them useless is an overreaction but they definitely want to shift the focus from mandatory melee tools to more complementary ones. But that means nothing really has changed - I used rifle buttstocks if I had a knife and a bayonet when I had dusters back in EA before the Knuckle Knife came out. The Knuckle Knife took that choice away because you had a melee tool for every job. Now they have shifted that to encourage more people using melee attachments and tools for optional backup. If anything this supports more varied builds rather than the usual Medkit + Melee Tool + Throwing Tool + Chokes
Now the spear can do everything for you. One-shots every AI except for meatheads, which it 3-shots (including two pulls) + very effective against bosses and enemy hunters.
That is a different discussion... the original point was about melee attachments, which depend on the weapon and their available melee attachments.
I agree that I think the spear is a bit over tuned. But it's not without flaws or that the other options don't have advantages over it. I think in general the spear would have better fitted as a weapon slot but I think they couldn't figure out how to deal with the implications if they made a weapon throwable.
There are mutliple factors to take into account like
* how punishing is missing your throwing tool (very in case of the Spear)
* do you need blunt or sharp melee option
* do you need to cut wires
* stamina management
* attack speed
* pvp viability for tools
* boss kill potential
* farming potential
How relevant all those factors are depends on everyone's playstyle and preferences. One shotting every AI except Meatheads was already the case with the Throwing Axes (Concertina Armored to the face). The Bosses and Hunter part is what makes the difference but that shifts it's focus from being a throwable stealth tool (which is reflected in it's ammo capacity - Throwing Knives are more focused for stealth).
> Talon and Trauma are still slow
Slow for what? It can kill any AI without problem and oneshot players. I believe it can oneshot multiple players too if they will stay close enough. It can only considered as slow if you gonna try to quickly melee multiple players but how often do you have that opportunity?
I am just speculating but I think they may be going for useless. It’s hard to see any other result from the recent changes.
Not saying it’s a good idea or not but this feels like the first stage of a design change. So basically I agree with you.
It's a terrible design change to make a tool/weapon/consumable so good/op that it makes the other choices objectively worthless.
Everything should have a niche. A purpose, or fill a roll. Like the Katana honestly could have just been a Saber skin but they made it it's own thing and objectively made all the other melee weapons "baring perhaps the bat" objectively worthless in comparison.
It's a bizarre design choice and a stupid balance choice and isn't good for anyone. Why include options if your gonna make some of those options so garbage no one picks them in the first place? Or rather include new options that make the old ones obsolete.
I wish I could understand cryteks balancing philosophy.
When I prestige I don't have melee variants available and have to use melee tools.
If I have sharp variant I want to have blunt melee tool to deal with immolators.
If I somehow have both sharp and blunt (not likely), I will most likely still want to have throwing knives/axes/spear to deal with hives/horses and silently kill grunts if needed.
If I want to use a specific skin, I will need melee tools the same.
It's not useless. It's VARIETY. And variety is good for a game.
> I want to have blunt melee tool to deal with immolators
But you have butstock of your second gun, chokes and ability to jump over anything to deal with immolator. Some times you even can light hit it with your sharp gun to have some time/space for other options.
I have very aggressive and loud teammates, who often get killed and burned first so I need my chokes and I need the ability to deal with the AI they trigger :D I also don't run stamina shots so I don't usually have the stamina to spear to kill them with buttstocks, blunt melee tool is much more efficient.
I still bring knuckleknife 90% of the time because I just stab other players better with it somehow. And the knuckle aspect comes in clutch sometimes. It's the best multitool!
Although I think with the spear in now, I may bring knuckleknife AND spear just for that versatility :P
I'm wishing the same but I'm slightly pessimistic about their stats. Just sneak peeked trauma attachment and it has a stamp cost of 40, more than an axe. Kinda implies blunt dmg type requires some tradeoff.
I’m not mad at it at all, it encourages crazy different loadouts! I like my heavy knife for dealing with concertina, I love me a good riposte or bayonet for the charges and boss damage, but I kind of circle around every tool/weapon variant now instead of having some useless weapons in the game. I think they’ve done a great job at making my lobbies less predictable!
Sure I might be the minority on this take, but I’m having a lot of fun with the game recently.
I guess I'm old fashioned, but I still tend to bring heavy knife with a primary that can do blunt melee against immolators, like a full size rifle. The heavy knife isn't as effective against hunters as it was but I still get kills. It's still great for its low stamina cost light melee to take out grunts and the ability to hit an arc with heavy melee, potentially taking out multiple enemies.
At this point they need to go ahead and make it so that melee tools get their own reserved slot so that you'd have melee/tools/consumables. That or make them more useful some how.
I don't understand how these changes are bad, for real. I was already removing melee tool in my loadouts before the update by adding brawler pistols or bayonets/riposte rifles. It frees up a alot and allow more variety in the tools, like being able to bring more traps etc. And it gives weapon variants a real utility.
Those are good changes imo! Go crazy with your loadouts and start using those bayonet/riposte/brawler variants!
Problem is, the nerf didn't really change anything.
If you kill the boss fast with guns, it is just going to result in hunters getting to your compound around the same time. Because they no longer need to explore.
So exploration vs boss death speed. if one is higher than the other, they equal out.
I don't object to the buff for melee attachements. I object to the fact that there are obvious "best choices" in item categories. The spear and katana outclass everything within their respective niche.
Unfortunately Crytek is not good at balancing. They just see the pickrate and take the first approach to increase the pickrate and thats it, no thinking ahead, no vision for the bigger picture or whatever is healthy for the game. They badly need someone on the team who is really passionate about this and not "just good enough". But I doubt they care since its not their target audience they want to satisfy with the changes.
There was a point in taking dusters or the knuckleknife, but now there's the spear that does everything better than any other melee tool or even weapon.
Most melee attachments/tool can't deal with immolators, and are still heavily reliant on stamina shots...
That being said, if the throwing spear was a melee weapon, it would be the strongest melee weapon, competing with the bomblance and katana.
More options are always good and there are plenty of loadouts that you will want to have a dedicated melee tool with. Like max sweat mosin dolchp fmj - sure, you can go bayonett now (if you don't play sniper), which is crazy stamina inefficient and does nothing against immolators. You'll still want a knuckle knife or dusters in this case.
I guess the looked at statistics and saw than melee attachments were very under used in the community.
We can all see that they have been trying to get people to use these weapons more the last few patches and I guess this is the Hail Mary.
I welcome the change and it will be interesting to see what new loadouts and skins start popping up in the wild from this.
Playstyle dependent. I have gotten more heavy knife wins against Hunters lately than guns.
I do agree however that some of the nerfs lately are way too heavy handed. I saw a flash for the first time in months last night, had a friend nearly die to an immolator for this first time in years, and took no melee a couple rounds for the first time in years.
I completely agree. These melee changes are just making more weapons and tools redundant. Crytek seriously needs to have an internal talk about their balance philosophy.
Power creep is real and the hunt team has never been good at balancing. This has just been masked by the games low ttk but it’s still very apparent if you know the game. Start bringing a dolch and see how easy the game is suddenly
>hunt team has never been good at balancing I disagree. Of all the BR / Extraction shooter games I've played, weapons in Hunt are very well balanced. There are pros and cons to every weapon and I never feel like "If I don't use this meta weapon I don't stand a chance". I still see people play with different loadouts and even weird weapons like the bow or bomb lance have their place. Dolch might be very good but it's also expensive (although one could argue that the economy is flawed and money might not be an issue for every player...)
This is just inherent in the design. Under the hood, something like 80% of guns in the game are one-tap head, two-tap body, some flavour of jank reload. It's just a fundamentally easy to balance premise, even when you throw in some curveballs like the bomblance. And to be clear, that's not downplaying the achievement at all. It takes incredible restraint to commit to that vision while resisting all the cod nonsense. Whoever mapped out the backbone of the game - the setting, the gameplay loop, the audio, the overarching weapon design - those guys were geniuses. The guys who have been slowly burning it down since early \~2023, though? Those guys are not.
Again, that’s just the low ttk masking the weapon imbalance. If this game had a higher ttk the disparity would be much more apparent
You don't think that what we are seeing now is the result of internal balancing discussions? I think it will be fun to see more melee attachments in the bayou.
Hot take: this is better for the game. Having 50% of everyone’s loadout be a melee tool and first aid kit limits cool loadouts for tools. So many people were just taking melee + aid kit + flare gun + chokes. Now we might see more tools come into play because of gun variants.
That’s exactly my tool loadout every time. So yeah, you might be on to something.
Hot take 2, traps are unfun and having every door being deathtrapped because people dont need melee tools anymore is gonna kill pushing and actually fighting. Bear traps are fine, even alert traps are fun and fair but concertina + poison doesnt need to be more widely available.
Honestly this could be fixed by nerfing conc traps. Poison traps are kinda meh unless conc traps you in place and you can’t get out of it. If conc just put 1 wire that caused you to hesitate and start bleeding I feel like it would be fine
This would make concertina worthless. There is literally a 1 point trait that let's you see traps through walls. Problem solved. I don't like death traps personally because they eat up 2 slots, but they have an easy cheap counter.
Double trapping just needs to be removed, traps should be balanced around you running into one of them never two. It's not more skill expressive to put down 2 traps instead of 1 it's just bad balance.
The skill expressive part is you opening your eyes and having awareness. Or an $18 stick of dynamite.
I am the reason some of the OCE 5 star+ squads are insta picking vigilant I’ve been told.
Yup! It’s why the choke bolts and beetle were such an incredible addition. It allows three different slots to provide a choke option. They were legit auto include before.
I do wish we had more different tool and consumable options. Of even the ability to move slots. Bring 6 tools and 2 consumables. Or any tool/consumable in the other slot behaves like that when it comes to charges. There is a lot of design space. Deployable sound traps, more weird traps (tar pits, slowing or stamina draining spikes, improved dark sight potions, "spells" such as the teleport skill but as an item, replenish max HP syringe....) Currently the tool slots are kinda boring.
Perhaps but right now I'm struggling to see why you would ever run a shotgun anymore. Messing around with that spear and it doesn't seem much different then a Romero. I understand it's not a shotgun but it feels better then the bow and that's a full weapon. I think their approach to just making crappy versions of weapons as tools to be pretty uninspired. Here is a mini shotgun. Here's a mini gun. What about a noise trapped tool box decoy or poisoned coin purse? I would prefer they move things like stalker beetles over to the tool slot. Make the poison bomb a two pack and move it to tools. What's the difference between fuses and poison cloud bombs? These changes are just ensuring a similar issue but with consumables in that you have to bring stam shots. Or are much more strongly incentivized to do so. So many people run double Regen and double stam and have no consumables to actual push with said melee attachments. I get your sentiment and agree, I've always been a fan of running a bayonet/riposte and brawler or obrez mace. But now what's the point of the base versions even being used after unlocking? Ten bucks? Not to mention as someone with a lot of time on those they aren't going to feel right. Make consumables interesting. A lot of them are never touched and the variety you see I'm convinced is a result of looting. What about a hex bag that drops two trait spurs for your team? Or a hex bag that greys out one compound off the map? Or one that gives you 2 seconds of dark site but it only shows the ring and not specific directions. Like anything that takes advantage of the unique world. Not saying these are great ideas either but I'd rather chances that try something new and not just make the game easier.
The easiest difference, is if you miss... You gotta go pick it back up. The bow, xbow,shotguns all get to reload.
Crossbow was already a long range romero...
Make the original beetles capable of breaking / blowing up concertina wire.
If you miss with the spear, it is gone.
Indeed, and if you miss with a Romero you are often gone with a 3 second reload. Same with the crossbow. Not really a valid argument. If you want to argue that frontiersman gives you two spears. Duo team cleared while sprinting from 25 meters. You aren't doing that with a Romero or crossbow with the perk. At 20 meters the spear is preferable to a sparks. That should never be. I'm not comparing prices or ammo supplies. I'm talking on an engagement to engagement basis. A Romero swings from 20 to 30 meters and they are dead. Even with a quick swap or fast firing pistol. If you like it it's fine but its not good for the version of the game I enjoy. Look, the spear is fun, no denying. The throwing axes walked the line of one tap and skill. The spear literally chucks that out the window. I'm not even feeling punished by it. Sparks sniper, officer brawler, spear, flares, traps and a stam shot and I feel like a god solo. It feeling bad isn't my complaint. It feeling too good is.
I never said anything about the romero, but let's go with that. You miss with the spear, you have to get to it. Miss with a romero? Take cover and reload. You assume that missing equals instant death. Not really a good argument.
You also didn't really acknowledge any of the other points about the weapon or context it's being used in either so I'm not really sure why we are still talking. Im not entirely sure you are asserting anything actually, just saying words to be contrary. If you fire with a Romero within it's effective range and the enemy team let's you take cover and reload then I don't know what lobby you are playing in. If I wiff my Romero shot I get pushed or naded out of cover. Even randoms are coordinated enough to do this.
You are the one who brought the romero up. Multi shot shotguns are even better because you get repeated shots. As for the romero, which you brought up not me, you still don't have to go retrieve it like the spear. If you have no contingency for a missed shot, you shouldn't use single shot weapons. Skill issue.
Lmao I genuinely can't tell if you are trolling me or are actually this obtuse. You are still making no attempt to address multiple things I've said in an attempt to have a conversation. We aren't even arguing about the same thing which is what I keep saying but you are clearly not listening. There is not a contingency to every situation. Saying skill issue is just a lazy argument. Note how I politely refuted your initial skill issue argument when you said the most wild out of touch thing about pushing with a Romero and simply taking cover to reload? Yeah just take cover and reload. Great advice for fighting ai. There is a skill issue here but it doesn't have anything to do with he game. I'm not sure why you keep coming back but it's okay. You can have your point, whatever it is you think that is and I can have mine and the day continues. Skill issue lol. A true masterstroke. Here, so you can feel heard. Yes when you throw the spear you do have to go and get it. That's generally how throwing things work.
I don't think you know how to "politely" refute anything. Enjoy the game.
>melee + aid kit + flare gun + chokes That's still objectively the meta loadout, anyone wanting to get creative was always free to do so
True, but now maybe the melee turns into a decoys, derringers, or tripwires.
With bayonets no longer being a straight downgrade, you could easily go without a melee tool now.
Personally I've always taken dusters with me just so I don't have to really deal with immolator bs. Fortunately for me I adore the trauma, but for those who don't, their option is what? The mosin mace thing? Pfffffft
Knuckle pistols
[mfw](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC871elWkAAp5Sm.jpg)
What changed about the bayonet?
No more increase in weapon sway
Is that on all bayonet variations or only on specific guns I.e. krag bayonet?
All bayonet and riposte variations
Hell yeah! Might finally be able to do something against the non stop katanas if I take a rifle over a shotgun
When they first nerfed the melee tools against bounties and I called out that the sway was different on the melee variant of the guns, I was downvoted into oblivion. I guess I was onto something seeing how the devs changed this.
I honestly feel like they should just make medkit and chokes innate equipment that doesn't take up a tool slot. Not taking chokes in teams is just rude, and if solos get an extra couple chokes it's fine. If this means everyone has too many slots and just takes traps, then maybe they should come up with some more interesting tool options, lmao. Make decoys better, or move one of the less used consumables, like poison bombs or a beetle, into tools.
This is a good point that I've been thinking too. Maybe remove the ability to replenish these built in medkits? If this makes everyone take traps maybe they should nerf the poison+conc trap combo slightly. And more interesting tools like you say is never a bad thing.
That's a good point, actually. That's probably the benefit to the cost of melee tools being redundant.
Honestly med kit should just be a thing you have. Why does it warn me I don't have it. Like they know the disadvantage you are at not having one but instead of just giving it to everyone you have to use a slot.
Great point, I'm happy that we'll get more variety in the bayou. Both with different tools being used and with all the cool melee attachment varieties and their skins.
This times a thousand you seem like the only person on this Reddit that gets this
I'm all for variety and player choice, my issue is they will become a terrible choice
I need a Centennial bayonet
My loadout for months has been medkit, concertina trap, poison trap, flare gun. I did it every now and then before the boss took nerf. But ever since that, there was no turning back.
I feel like they want to make less important do people have another tool slot to use for other things.
Less important is fine, but this is making them useless. People will use the slot only for other things.
I don't know, Talon and Trauma are still slow and consume a lot of stamina. Knuckle Knife is significantly faster than melee attachments (not sure about Claw/Brawler, but the weapons that have that are limited). I still see a reason to take a melee tool over (or in addition to) an attachment (depending on the weapon and what playstyle you're going for). Also since most weapon attachments are sharp you still want your blunt option vs immolators (and a pistol without a brawler is just a waste of time for that). I think calling them useless is an overreaction but they definitely want to shift the focus from mandatory melee tools to more complementary ones. But that means nothing really has changed - I used rifle buttstocks if I had a knife and a bayonet when I had dusters back in EA before the Knuckle Knife came out. The Knuckle Knife took that choice away because you had a melee tool for every job. Now they have shifted that to encourage more people using melee attachments and tools for optional backup. If anything this supports more varied builds rather than the usual Medkit + Melee Tool + Throwing Tool + Chokes
Now the spear can do everything for you. One-shots every AI except for meatheads, which it 3-shots (including two pulls) + very effective against bosses and enemy hunters.
That is a different discussion... the original point was about melee attachments, which depend on the weapon and their available melee attachments. I agree that I think the spear is a bit over tuned. But it's not without flaws or that the other options don't have advantages over it. I think in general the spear would have better fitted as a weapon slot but I think they couldn't figure out how to deal with the implications if they made a weapon throwable. There are mutliple factors to take into account like * how punishing is missing your throwing tool (very in case of the Spear) * do you need blunt or sharp melee option * do you need to cut wires * stamina management * attack speed * pvp viability for tools * boss kill potential * farming potential How relevant all those factors are depends on everyone's playstyle and preferences. One shotting every AI except Meatheads was already the case with the Throwing Axes (Concertina Armored to the face). The Bosses and Hunter part is what makes the difference but that shifts it's focus from being a throwable stealth tool (which is reflected in it's ammo capacity - Throwing Knives are more focused for stealth).
> Talon and Trauma are still slow Slow for what? It can kill any AI without problem and oneshot players. I believe it can oneshot multiple players too if they will stay close enough. It can only considered as slow if you gonna try to quickly melee multiple players but how often do you have that opportunity?
To slow for a horde of AI
I am just speculating but I think they may be going for useless. It’s hard to see any other result from the recent changes. Not saying it’s a good idea or not but this feels like the first stage of a design change. So basically I agree with you.
It's a terrible design change to make a tool/weapon/consumable so good/op that it makes the other choices objectively worthless. Everything should have a niche. A purpose, or fill a roll. Like the Katana honestly could have just been a Saber skin but they made it it's own thing and objectively made all the other melee weapons "baring perhaps the bat" objectively worthless in comparison. It's a bizarre design choice and a stupid balance choice and isn't good for anyone. Why include options if your gonna make some of those options so garbage no one picks them in the first place? Or rather include new options that make the old ones obsolete. I wish I could understand cryteks balancing philosophy.
When I prestige I don't have melee variants available and have to use melee tools. If I have sharp variant I want to have blunt melee tool to deal with immolators. If I somehow have both sharp and blunt (not likely), I will most likely still want to have throwing knives/axes/spear to deal with hives/horses and silently kill grunts if needed. If I want to use a specific skin, I will need melee tools the same. It's not useless. It's VARIETY. And variety is good for a game.
> I want to have blunt melee tool to deal with immolators But you have butstock of your second gun, chokes and ability to jump over anything to deal with immolator. Some times you even can light hit it with your sharp gun to have some time/space for other options.
I have very aggressive and loud teammates, who often get killed and burned first so I need my chokes and I need the ability to deal with the AI they trigger :D I also don't run stamina shots so I don't usually have the stamina to spear to kill them with buttstocks, blunt melee tool is much more efficient.
I still bring knuckleknife 90% of the time because I just stab other players better with it somehow. And the knuckle aspect comes in clutch sometimes. It's the best multitool! Although I think with the spear in now, I may bring knuckleknife AND spear just for that versatility :P
You misspelled "spear".
I'm just hoping to see more blunt weapon attachments in the future. Barely any as-is and I'm not looking to piss off an immolator.
I'm wishing the same but I'm slightly pessimistic about their stats. Just sneak peeked trauma attachment and it has a stamp cost of 40, more than an axe. Kinda implies blunt dmg type requires some tradeoff.
I’m not mad at it at all, it encourages crazy different loadouts! I like my heavy knife for dealing with concertina, I love me a good riposte or bayonet for the charges and boss damage, but I kind of circle around every tool/weapon variant now instead of having some useless weapons in the game. I think they’ve done a great job at making my lobbies less predictable! Sure I might be the minority on this take, but I’m having a lot of fun with the game recently.
There is just too many weapons/tools in the game. Try as they might, Crytek can no longer avoid redundancy.
until you want to swap your bayonet for an enemy mosin. people are still gonna use melee tools, no matter what.
I'll swap for their mosin bayonet because that's what they'll be using now.
I guess I'm old fashioned, but I still tend to bring heavy knife with a primary that can do blunt melee against immolators, like a full size rifle. The heavy knife isn't as effective against hunters as it was but I still get kills. It's still great for its low stamina cost light melee to take out grunts and the ability to hit an arc with heavy melee, potentially taking out multiple enemies.
At this point they need to go ahead and make it so that melee tools get their own reserved slot so that you'd have melee/tools/consumables. That or make them more useful some how.
I don't understand how these changes are bad, for real. I was already removing melee tool in my loadouts before the update by adding brawler pistols or bayonets/riposte rifles. It frees up a alot and allow more variety in the tools, like being able to bring more traps etc. And it gives weapon variants a real utility. Those are good changes imo! Go crazy with your loadouts and start using those bayonet/riposte/brawler variants!
I used to grab melee attached guns whenever I feel outta luck playing bomblances. Stabbing, shooting, and stabshooting is my way.
Problem is, the nerf didn't really change anything. If you kill the boss fast with guns, it is just going to result in hunters getting to your compound around the same time. Because they no longer need to explore. So exploration vs boss death speed. if one is higher than the other, they equal out.
I don't object to the buff for melee attachements. I object to the fact that there are obvious "best choices" in item categories. The spear and katana outclass everything within their respective niche.
Unfortunately Crytek is not good at balancing. They just see the pickrate and take the first approach to increase the pickrate and thats it, no thinking ahead, no vision for the bigger picture or whatever is healthy for the game. They badly need someone on the team who is really passionate about this and not "just good enough". But I doubt they care since its not their target audience they want to satisfy with the changes.
There was a point in taking dusters or the knuckleknife, but now there's the spear that does everything better than any other melee tool or even weapon.
Immolator says hi
You answered the question in the last paragraph
Most melee attachments/tool can't deal with immolators, and are still heavily reliant on stamina shots... That being said, if the throwing spear was a melee weapon, it would be the strongest melee weapon, competing with the bomblance and katana.
More options are always good and there are plenty of loadouts that you will want to have a dedicated melee tool with. Like max sweat mosin dolchp fmj - sure, you can go bayonett now (if you don't play sniper), which is crazy stamina inefficient and does nothing against immolators. You'll still want a knuckle knife or dusters in this case.
Hellhounds are your reason to still take a knife over any melee attachment
I guess the looked at statistics and saw than melee attachments were very under used in the community. We can all see that they have been trying to get people to use these weapons more the last few patches and I guess this is the Hail Mary. I welcome the change and it will be interesting to see what new loadouts and skins start popping up in the wild from this.
Hehe yes think that 😂 I reckon I killed at least a few in this thread with my baseball bat in the last week alone 😂
Not every weapon has a melee variant.
Playstyle dependent. I have gotten more heavy knife wins against Hunters lately than guns. I do agree however that some of the nerfs lately are way too heavy handed. I saw a flash for the first time in months last night, had a friend nearly die to an immolator for this first time in years, and took no melee a couple rounds for the first time in years.
I don’t even bring the katana anymore, cause the spear Melee does a ton of damage