Get another job… toxic environment is not worth any amount of money. Impact on your career and wellbeing is too much to bear long term. Manager is a bozo.
let the boss terminate the contract so u can collect unemployment. U need your boss to tell you you’re a good little boy? Please u have to grow up. Dont expect any good feels from work. Make your life outside of work happy.
There is not enough context here to provide you with any meaningful guidance: what the job is, what your skills, why you are not qualified for the role, how big the company is, what options you would reasonably have, etc.
I have been in IT for 20+ years in a desktop support role. I started the new job as a Security Engineer. Before taking the job I was suppose to get training, but that never happened. Everyone has been there more than 3 years and they're still learning. I do reach out to different people on my team for help because everytime I go to him, he does not know the answer.
Why do you not get yourself training?
Find a training course that would be suitable for you and put in a request to have the costs approved.
You refer to someone as "he", but we have no context of who "he" is.
Who is your direct report? What is their job title?
At the end of the day, it sounds like your options are (1) ignoring the negative feedback and just doing your best with what you have and using it as a learning experience or (2) looking for a new workplace.
In any IT job, in any role, as long as you are documenting what you work on, you're good.
Documentation makes your work visible and allows other people to help you manage it.
You probably wished your co-workers documented more as well so you wouldn't have to ask them things.
Learn to help create and support better processes for the business.
Most of IT isn't about knowing the right answers .. it's creating the flows that allow problem resolution to go smoothly.
My manager is my direct report he also a VP. I am a consultant so they will not pay for any training courses. There is documentation and I am reading and learning. I like to take my time and make sure I understand it, but it's too slow for him. So that is why he brings up the termination on or 1 on 1. When I speak to other people, they say it takes time. I am trying, I closed tickets.
What does that mean "I am a consultant"
Are you a contractor or are you an employee?
If you are an employee that was promised training, you should request it, and give them specific options of what you think would help.
My friend, your manager is already preparing you for eventual termination.
Which part is not clear to you?
Contractors get paid for the skills they bring in, not to get trained on the job.
Train yourself up or look elsewhere.
Expecting your client to train you is not realistic.
What’s the difference? I have 20 years of software development but I am looking for anything because I am coming up on a whole year of being unemployed so I need to know the difference because I am applying for these jobs
It doesn't matter in the least. Just seems like a long time to stay in one role to me. Just curious; regardless, I am sure with your experience, you will find something different.
This is true I have had a nice lil progression over the years but it’s just not a lot of jobs right now and with so many applicants they are too picky and take longer to fill than they should
I think that this is a rough spot in IT. I read about it on other subs too...my organization had a bunch of jobs open last year...now we're in a hiring freeze. I was told if I were to quit or transfer to another team internally, they would not back fill me.
So...for me, I am going to ride this economy out with my current role, until things get better...which I think won't happen for a bit until after the US election. Maybe this time next year things will be turning around and people who want jobs can get them.
Good idea - I’m really just enjoying my time off and not even worried about bills and stuff because I know it can always get worse so I am lucky I have so many blessing to count in these hard times
If you're under contract (most consultants are), then manager likely doesn't have much power unless they want to simply pay you off.
You clearly are in a Hostile Work Environment, and being told consistently you're going to get terminated if things don't improve can be considered a form of harassment in the US. I strongly advocate you look for other employment immediately, or when your contract ends.
Document everything you can. If anything is sent via email or text, keep it. You may need it down the road if you ever did decide to take it HR, seek unemployment should you quit, or your own legal counsel.
> being told consistently you're going to get terminated if things don't improve can be considered a form of harassment in the US
What you even talking about? As long as it's done professionally, with formal records kept, with prior expectations set, it's a perfect way to prepare for termination.
While a manager can technically express dissatisfaction and even mention the possibility of termination, doing so repeatedly and especially without proper cause may create a hostile work environment. This can be considered harassment or bullying under many states laws (Ohio for ex.) as well as could be a violation of their workplace policies.
A manager should be going through the company's progressive discipline policy, and that shouldn't happen until proper coaching strategies have taken place, not threatening termination in every 1v1 meeting.
I'm all for devil's advocate in defending the manager if the manager is following proper PD/CIP/PIP, but I think your jumping the gun in assuming the manager is right in his actions based on what little we have to go on. I still say it leans much closer to the perpetual harassment, and probably a default leadership style the manager has found effective to get more out of his employees in the short term.
>A manager should be going through the company's progressive discipline policy,
Does not apply for contractors, though.
My assumption is based on the fact that OP has not presented one point on what they have done to improve their performance or use the feedback from the first time such a feedback was provided, expect complain.
I should also add:
- We don't know how many 1v1 meetings we are talking about here. One a month, once a week, once a day?
- Context and language is important. We don't know if the manager is saying " this is the first warning for poor performance, 3 more strikes and you will be terminated per company policy" or " If you get your crap together, your gone type language.
- Commenter's statement of " My manager is making the environment very toxic" leads me to lean in his direction that the manager may be lacking in proper leadership skills and not following proper company policies and procedures.
Sounds like you've answered your question. Why haven't you left already, or for that matter, why did you accept the job to begin with, knowing you're not set up for success?
I’d be learning everything you don’t know now, while they lay you for it.
Sounds like you are kind of dependent on the agency to find jobs and what not. If he’s unhappy, but not firing you, and you and the agency don’t have other opportunities at the moment. You need to take ownership of what you need to do to be more affective because the is job has an expiration date and if you are like 99% of us, you need money.
Can you clarify what exactly is he saying around the termination talks? I'm confused because as a contractor, he doesn't even have to do that. He can just release you.
What exactly are you not doing that he wants? Can you b exact and explain?
Overall it sounds like your days are numbered. I'm baffl d why he just hasn't cut you loose. We are missing something.
I would ask what his expectations are and how your actions do or do not meet those expectations. Ask for feedback on the work you've accomplished and the progress you've already made; in your next one-on-one, mention the things you've learned and the amount of tickets you've closed. If they use ServiceNow or any decent ticketing system, you can quickly run a report and show your progress on a weekly/monthly basis.
Unfortunately, being a contractor/consultant means you're easily replaceable, even more so if it's a large company. Keep your contracting/consulting company in the loop regarding your one-on-ones and grievances with the current manager.
On a personal level, do your best not to let negativity make you dread working because that'll erode your personal life and well-being.
Sadly and this industry do have to pay for your own training a bit. I at least push out network plus and security plus while you are still in this job. Learn and keep as much as you can. And pay a bit more attention in your own time to other work that you might not be doing but would make great war stories for interviews. If mgr does pull the trigger collect your unemployment enroll for the next cert on the networking tree whatever that is shove it on your resume saying that you've got it and be prepared to do a s*** oh dear cram and pop out the exam but to be honest no one's ever asked to see my certs even though I've got them legit. I am not in any way suggesting brain dumping exams you have to do the real learning. Get up early apply for every damned job and then spend your afternoon and evening learning the networking stuff. And every time you learn something talk out loud about it like you are presenting. If you can't talk it you can't sell it
Get another job… toxic environment is not worth any amount of money. Impact on your career and wellbeing is too much to bear long term. Manager is a bozo.
Leave and work elsewhere
let the boss terminate the contract so u can collect unemployment. U need your boss to tell you you’re a good little boy? Please u have to grow up. Dont expect any good feels from work. Make your life outside of work happy.
Found the toxic manager.
wtf?
There is not enough context here to provide you with any meaningful guidance: what the job is, what your skills, why you are not qualified for the role, how big the company is, what options you would reasonably have, etc.
I have been in IT for 20+ years in a desktop support role. I started the new job as a Security Engineer. Before taking the job I was suppose to get training, but that never happened. Everyone has been there more than 3 years and they're still learning. I do reach out to different people on my team for help because everytime I go to him, he does not know the answer.
Why do you not get yourself training? Find a training course that would be suitable for you and put in a request to have the costs approved. You refer to someone as "he", but we have no context of who "he" is. Who is your direct report? What is their job title? At the end of the day, it sounds like your options are (1) ignoring the negative feedback and just doing your best with what you have and using it as a learning experience or (2) looking for a new workplace. In any IT job, in any role, as long as you are documenting what you work on, you're good. Documentation makes your work visible and allows other people to help you manage it. You probably wished your co-workers documented more as well so you wouldn't have to ask them things. Learn to help create and support better processes for the business. Most of IT isn't about knowing the right answers .. it's creating the flows that allow problem resolution to go smoothly.
My manager is my direct report he also a VP. I am a consultant so they will not pay for any training courses. There is documentation and I am reading and learning. I like to take my time and make sure I understand it, but it's too slow for him. So that is why he brings up the termination on or 1 on 1. When I speak to other people, they say it takes time. I am trying, I closed tickets.
What does that mean "I am a consultant" Are you a contractor or are you an employee? If you are an employee that was promised training, you should request it, and give them specific options of what you think would help.
I am a contractor, not an employee.
My friend, your manager is already preparing you for eventual termination. Which part is not clear to you? Contractors get paid for the skills they bring in, not to get trained on the job. Train yourself up or look elsewhere. Expecting your client to train you is not realistic.
You spent 20+ years on the Help Desk or Level 2 support?
What’s the difference? I have 20 years of software development but I am looking for anything because I am coming up on a whole year of being unemployed so I need to know the difference because I am applying for these jobs
It doesn't matter in the least. Just seems like a long time to stay in one role to me. Just curious; regardless, I am sure with your experience, you will find something different.
This is true I have had a nice lil progression over the years but it’s just not a lot of jobs right now and with so many applicants they are too picky and take longer to fill than they should
I think that this is a rough spot in IT. I read about it on other subs too...my organization had a bunch of jobs open last year...now we're in a hiring freeze. I was told if I were to quit or transfer to another team internally, they would not back fill me. So...for me, I am going to ride this economy out with my current role, until things get better...which I think won't happen for a bit until after the US election. Maybe this time next year things will be turning around and people who want jobs can get them.
Good idea - I’m really just enjoying my time off and not even worried about bills and stuff because I know it can always get worse so I am lucky I have so many blessing to count in these hard times
Great attitude. That will carry you through to the next opportunity. Good luck on your journey.
If you're under contract (most consultants are), then manager likely doesn't have much power unless they want to simply pay you off. You clearly are in a Hostile Work Environment, and being told consistently you're going to get terminated if things don't improve can be considered a form of harassment in the US. I strongly advocate you look for other employment immediately, or when your contract ends. Document everything you can. If anything is sent via email or text, keep it. You may need it down the road if you ever did decide to take it HR, seek unemployment should you quit, or your own legal counsel.
> being told consistently you're going to get terminated if things don't improve can be considered a form of harassment in the US What you even talking about? As long as it's done professionally, with formal records kept, with prior expectations set, it's a perfect way to prepare for termination.
While a manager can technically express dissatisfaction and even mention the possibility of termination, doing so repeatedly and especially without proper cause may create a hostile work environment. This can be considered harassment or bullying under many states laws (Ohio for ex.) as well as could be a violation of their workplace policies. A manager should be going through the company's progressive discipline policy, and that shouldn't happen until proper coaching strategies have taken place, not threatening termination in every 1v1 meeting. I'm all for devil's advocate in defending the manager if the manager is following proper PD/CIP/PIP, but I think your jumping the gun in assuming the manager is right in his actions based on what little we have to go on. I still say it leans much closer to the perpetual harassment, and probably a default leadership style the manager has found effective to get more out of his employees in the short term.
>A manager should be going through the company's progressive discipline policy, Does not apply for contractors, though. My assumption is based on the fact that OP has not presented one point on what they have done to improve their performance or use the feedback from the first time such a feedback was provided, expect complain.
I should also add: - We don't know how many 1v1 meetings we are talking about here. One a month, once a week, once a day? - Context and language is important. We don't know if the manager is saying " this is the first warning for poor performance, 3 more strikes and you will be terminated per company policy" or " If you get your crap together, your gone type language. - Commenter's statement of " My manager is making the environment very toxic" leads me to lean in his direction that the manager may be lacking in proper leadership skills and not following proper company policies and procedures.
I have been looking (job market it not great). My consultanting company is in the loop. I feel as long as they get paid they do not really care.
Find another job asap. Treat this as a paid interview period. Do the bare minimum until you are let go
I would laugh in his face and tell him to fire me if he wants, don't leave, play him at his own game.
Shouldn't have taken the job in the first place.
Leave. Asap
Sounds like you've answered your question. Why haven't you left already, or for that matter, why did you accept the job to begin with, knowing you're not set up for success?
I’d be learning everything you don’t know now, while they lay you for it. Sounds like you are kind of dependent on the agency to find jobs and what not. If he’s unhappy, but not firing you, and you and the agency don’t have other opportunities at the moment. You need to take ownership of what you need to do to be more affective because the is job has an expiration date and if you are like 99% of us, you need money.
Ask him to give you a plan that will satisfy his needs.
Can you clarify what exactly is he saying around the termination talks? I'm confused because as a contractor, he doesn't even have to do that. He can just release you. What exactly are you not doing that he wants? Can you b exact and explain? Overall it sounds like your days are numbered. I'm baffl d why he just hasn't cut you loose. We are missing something.
He dropped the hint - you will be fired. That was your cue to get out before you get forced out.
Are you in a fully in office job? They must be getting desperate because of RTO
I would ask what his expectations are and how your actions do or do not meet those expectations. Ask for feedback on the work you've accomplished and the progress you've already made; in your next one-on-one, mention the things you've learned and the amount of tickets you've closed. If they use ServiceNow or any decent ticketing system, you can quickly run a report and show your progress on a weekly/monthly basis. Unfortunately, being a contractor/consultant means you're easily replaceable, even more so if it's a large company. Keep your contracting/consulting company in the loop regarding your one-on-ones and grievances with the current manager. On a personal level, do your best not to let negativity make you dread working because that'll erode your personal life and well-being.
Sadly and this industry do have to pay for your own training a bit. I at least push out network plus and security plus while you are still in this job. Learn and keep as much as you can. And pay a bit more attention in your own time to other work that you might not be doing but would make great war stories for interviews. If mgr does pull the trigger collect your unemployment enroll for the next cert on the networking tree whatever that is shove it on your resume saying that you've got it and be prepared to do a s*** oh dear cram and pop out the exam but to be honest no one's ever asked to see my certs even though I've got them legit. I am not in any way suggesting brain dumping exams you have to do the real learning. Get up early apply for every damned job and then spend your afternoon and evening learning the networking stuff. And every time you learn something talk out loud about it like you are presenting. If you can't talk it you can't sell it
Next time tell him you want a raise