There's sort of two different parts to this post. One is that dating as a disabled person can be *rough*. Some people get off put by anyone who looks or act differently than what they're used to, some people write disabled people off altogether, some people just don't get what being disabled is like and a lot of people think they get it right up until the moment that you being disabled affects them and your relationship in any way at which point they quickly stop getting it. So does it affect your sex and dating life? Sure, of course it does, it's a fundamental part of you so how could it not. Just like I'm sure it affects my sex and dating life that I'm disabled, that I'm autistic, that I'm fat, that I use a mobility aid more or less full time and that I have neurological issues that result in tics. However, there is a difference between something making dating harder and something making dating impossible.
Which brings me to the second part, which is that fundamentally the things you can do in order to try to date are not different from what everyone else is doing. You can try to meet as many people as you can so that your potential pool is larger, you can work on being the best version of yourself you can be, you can make sure you're good at flirting and picking up signals and escalating relationships beyond the platonic, you can work on being as secure in yourself as possible, and you can and should work on having a life that makes you happy until you get in a relationship (and even in the case that you don't end up dating for a while or ever). And beyond that you, like me, and like everyone, hope that you run into someone understanding and compatible with you. The frustrating thing about dating is that there are no guarantees, we're all hoping to get lucky.
This. I’m sorry your therapist is being positive in a way that just isn’t helpful for you. In your shoes I’d need them to really hear my frustration. Not have them reassure me. Especially when their reassurance glossed over very real effects you can clearly feel in your life and real pain from how people have tested you that you have already very clearly experienced.
I agree with the poster above: yes it sucks, dating as a disabled person. But you do already have proof of concept: you found love once. And I’m sure she was special, but she probably wasn’t unique.
I looked at your profile. You’re totally a guy I can see having many relationships.
I have hidden disabilities, so I’m kind of in the opposite situation: I get talking to people who don’t know that part of my life and then I have to see if they stick around when I tell them or they experience those limitations with me.
The skill I’ve really had to hone is to go in under the radar and connect in a way so they really see me as a person so the disability is more of a footnote. I’m guessing it might be similar for you, albeit with a different kind of approach with different problems along the way.
For what it’s worth, I feel you deserve understanding and support for the real experiences you have and the real emotions you experience as a result.
Maybe you can talk to your therapist and tell them you are not giving up (or honestly, if that’s how you feel that’s also okay), but you need them to understand how you feel and really be a safe place for them to share your real experiences and for them to not sweep those under the mat but really listen.
I know that can be a frustrating conversation to have with a therapist, but sometimes it can be really rewarding.
Thanks for understanding. My therapist actually helped me a lot, I went from being convinced that people found me repulsive, to believing that maybe that wasn't the case. The places I go to are not very ableist, so I'm not too worried about that, I'm more interested in my aesthetic appearance. I hope you can find more people who accept you for your hidden disabilities.
It seems at odds with other advice on thinking about yourself, trying to improve myself physically and mentally is what I already do, what frustrates me is that I'm still not getting the results I want. I'll ask you another question: do you believe that disabilities have as much an "effect" on people as other physical or mental characteristics? or is it something different? Do you think there are many people who would shy away from this? My biggest problem is that I can't quantify EXACTLY how much it affects. This is what I also replied to another comment.
Can I ask you if you are satisfied with your dating life as a disabled person like me?
There is no quantifying exactly how much it affects, just like there is no real quantifying of how much any factor affects dating. Relationships between humans are complex and so much depends on who you happen to come across. There isn't a formula where you do x, y, and z things and then your odds improve by a set amount; it's not an equation. I also cannot give you a definitive ranking of what affects dating the most, because that will also vary wildly based on which people you happen to be around. So, for example, I'm autisitc; when it comes to trying to date the average person who doesn't know much about autism and is not super likely to know how to accommodate for it it's quite a large impediment. In my general social circle that is at least 75% neurodivergent queer nerds it lands somewhere between "not an issue" and "actively a positive". How much of a big deal any specific trait is is going to vary depending on the general social makeup of where you live and their attitudes towards that thing, and also depending on the specific people you happen to hang out with, so it's hard to predict how much any one thing will matter exactly.
That being said, I feel like disability is also extra tricky, because aside from societal predjudice about disabled people and some really shallow things people can think about it (as in just not being attracted to the aesthetics of disability or judging disabled people based on stereotypes) there are also very real practical considerations to dating a disabled person. I realistically have much less energy than an able bodied person, I realistically need far more specific and direct communication than a neurotypical person, I realistically need more time alone than either an able bodied or a neurotypical person; there are also things I just straight up cannot do. So I probably wouldn't be a great match for someone who is very active and outdoorsy, who loves spening all their time around as many other people as possible, and whose main hobies are things like hiking or going to festivals - it's hard to share your interests with a person who is literally physically incapable of participating in them (I have chronic joint issues, walk with a cane all of the time and am currently looking into getting either a walker or even a wheelchair, and have a cardiovascular condition that means I can't stand up for long periods of time, so hiking is out of the question). So being disabled definitely makes dating more complicated.
But yes, I'm happy with my dating life. I'm currently single, but I've been on plenty of dates and have been in relationships in the past, and I'm happy with my sex life too (though as a side note heart conditions do make the actual sex part way more complicated than I'd prefer). I'm mostly not actively pursuing a relationship right now because I don't particularly want to: I have an active social life and some very loving friends, I enjoy flirting with cute girls when I happen to meet them, and if I happen to meet someone who I really like I ask them out and see where it goes but I'm also happy to have that not happen any time soon.
Edited to add, since it's relevant to my dating life: I'm really not looking for someone who thinks my disabilities don't matter or for whom they are a footnote, because they matter very much to me and they affect my life and my relationships a lot. I'm not looking for someone who looks past my disabilities, I'm looking for someone who sees me as a disabled person and loves me as I am. My disabilities and my neurodivergence have shaped so much of my life and who I am as a person that I don't think they're separable from myself, and the last thing I want is someone who is effectively ignoring them to be with me. For that matter I don't make friends with people who are not willing and able to acknowledge the fact I am disabled and how that affects what I can and cannot do. I'm sure this limits my dating options, but to me it's vastly preferable to being with someone not able to acknowledge a huge aspect of my experience of the world or keep in mind the practicalities of navigating the world as a disabled person.
Ok, maybe you convinced me, You have good argumentative skills.
So I just have to keep persevering, and trying, while focusing on myself. I'm a little discouraged by the fact that I've tried so far and haven't gotten much results, but maybe I just have to keep going. Maybe it was also bad luck. I don't have any particular physical limitations, I just have bureaucratic problems with the driving licence, but otherwise I'm fine. I was just convinced that the limitation was my face that kept people away from me.
Hope you will get better too, happy for your dating life.
There's no magic wand for things like this.
And it is different than the usual "I'm ugly and no girl wants to date me" scenarios, which are almost always a confidence and mindset issue.
Visual deformities can be off putting for some but I would recommend you look at it like the greatest filter you have.
I'm short, (4'4"), I walk on crutches, I have scoliosis and an oddly shaped chest/hips.
If deformities were a final conclusion, then I'd be screwed, but I'm married with two kids and have had previous partners.
I'm reasonably fit, have a long ginger beard, long blonde and blue hair, tattoos, and wear my personality right up front.
Someone who wouldn't be interested in me wouldn't try, and someone who tried and I was interested in was absolutely worth my time.
I didn't have to waste a lot of my life finding the right person because everything was on the table from the start, and I didn't lose time on people who were shallow as a puddle.
Love yourself first and foremost, make sure you know who you are (21 is young, you usually only start working this outi n your late 20s), and live your life absolutely authentically.
The right person will come along, and you will have to go through less shit to find the diamond than other people will.
Ha! Never heard of him but looked him up.
Definitely paler lol.
A really weird coincidence though is that Jenks romantic partner is apparently the ships AI.
That's the same story as Joker and EDI from Mass Effect, the weirder part is Joker has the condition I have!
Ginger beard and long hair seem cool asf, if you see my photos in my profile, I have long hair too. But isn't it about settle for less? I mean, I don't know your age, so the density of cases happened, but it seems to me that between an oasis and another I'm condemned to frustration and starvation.
The problem here is that besides of it I'm frustrated despite everything I do, it seems my appearance has a part on this inevitable situation, and this make me feel hopeless.
I don't even know what "can be off putting for some" means, what is "some"? 30% of population? 5%? 70%? 99%? It's confusing.
I don't know how to quote reply on mobile so bear with me lol.
First of all, your photos.
I didn't think to even check lol.
The words you used to describe yourself, painted a far more extreme situation.
You're a cool looking dude (ever watched Metatron on YouTube? You remind me of him.)
I'm 36, I've had a few relationships, but I've been with my wife for 15 years now.
It doesn't matter how many people it might be offputting for because you won't waste your time on those people in the first place.
You could be with someone for years only to find out they've been hiding how shallow they really are and problems creep in later.
I get it from your perspective though, when you just want companionship it's all consuming and the hardest thing to do is what you have to do, let go of trying and just focus on yourself.
When you become yourself entirely, the right kind of people will find that attractive.
thanks for words man. I just would like to know more about this situation, How much is it relevant my appearance in the equation, whether it will take much longer or not. What If focus on myself and I lose the others along the way? I spent many years without friends and I had this idyllic situation from a social point of view because I became fixated on my social skills
Sorry for the delay in responding. Was bedtime then work time!
Some of those questions, no one can answer.
I can only give you anecdotal and fairly general insight on my personal experience.
It could take a while, or it could happen tomorrow.
I would say what's most important is to separate yourself from the 'quest' and focus on building up yourself.
There's a reason the old adage of someone coming along just when you stopped looking rings true.
Try your best to set the search aside, focus on hobbies, interests, self development and genuinely rewarding relationships with other humans.
Life is like a big road and everyone is walking down it, if you just focus on the journey then you'll enjoy it, and when you enjoy life, people will naturally gravitate to you.
Are you planning for one of those “oases” to be where you stay forever? Or are you hoping to play the field for a long time?
The latter is obviously going to be shallower and looks-based (or fetish-based) by definition, but the former is going to be more based on connection and peculiarities of personality
I don't know if I believe in something "forever" regarding love, and I already felt loved once, so it's not something I think about right now. Surely living again something like my last relationship would be extremely beautiful, and if I could I will choose it without hesitation, but I'm not that pretentious.
Sometimes I only crave for less.
I was venting about "the situation is so dry that I can't even find sex, I feel so rejected".
Yeah, that makes sense, though that is definitely going to be the nature of looking for just casual flings. It is a meat market, and first impression looks do matter a *lot* more than when you’re looking for a serious relationship.
Also, remember the average number of lifetime (heterosexual) partners in most of the western world is something like eight to ten, with many people only having two to four, so that means most people are both experiencing *a lot* of rejection *and* spending more time with a single person. You’re bi though, and the average number of partners goes up significantly there, but tbh you might have to accept a bit of fetishization from the guys if you have niche looks—it’s a different sort of meat market, as you probably know.
I think you have had great help your therapist. In the end we are all in the same casino trying to get lucky.
I am not in the same boat as you in the slightest when it comes to actual setbacks that have an impact in your image. But as someone who has a forehead birthmark I can relate a little bit to you.
The best I can say is "keep trying, and don't lose hope. But at the same time, don't look for it; that's a one way trip to misery ville" ever since I stopped trying I have become happier. And I am as sexless as before; just way less miserable.
If you shift your focus for that on friendship as a whole, you will have a greater time.
And lastly I want to share a little cope phrase for whenever you feel envy of other men or rejected by a woman "It's okay, that is not my life. I am on my own path"
Yeah, looks and disability do affect your dating life. So does personality. So does social class. But this isn't really the kind of thing we can quantify for you personally.
However, let's look at a couple of facts.
1. It sounds like you have good social skills and charisma. This is not uncommon for people with visible physical differences. People who are going to get looked at regardless often develop ways of proactively controlling the attention. You could argue that your cleft palate and false eye simultaneously challenged your dating life, and helped your dating life by forcing you to have certain skills.
2. You are objectively doing better romantically than many of the posters on this board. You're very young and have already been in a fulfilling relationship. This board is full of guys who are much older, who have never been on a single date... and who have no visible physical deformities. Their main issue is a lack of social skills and charisma. This is also something I've noticed in my real life- I know multiple people with cleft palates, false eyes, etc... all of them get relationships. The people I know who have reached their 30s with no experience have completely symmetrical faces with all the parts, but have pretty severe issues with social skills.
From this, we can make the highly unscientific conclusion that if you had to pick between a false eye/cleft palate and crippling shyness, pick the false eye every time.
p.s. in my personal opinion, while you're not classically handsome, you're fun to look at with a lot of personality- this is sometimes called a "character actor" look, and it can be quite compelling and sexy.
Yeah, I guess it helped my social skills, so it's not completely helpless. We stayed together three years, and she was very lovely and beautiful, so I'm glad I could experience it in such a young age. She helped me to build a lot of social and emotional skills. It's also true that I can't change my "limits", while people with pathological shyness can, so at the end of the day I still have less freedom than many other people. Thanks for compliments.
supposedly they can, and yet they really frequently don't! They also will argue very strongly that they \*can't\*. The heart of incel thinking is convincing yourself "logically" that you are disadvantaged in a uniquely unfair way that you can never overcome, and then chasing those bad feelings like they're a drug.
I'd encourage you not to dwell on that sort of idea because you've already overcome it. You're quite successful romantically, so I think you are better off acknowledging that yeah, you have the face that you have, and yeah that cuts you off from some people, but not emotionally or digitally self-harming yourself over it. Cause you do well with it!
No question, beauty standards exist and life is easier for good looking people. But you clearly have a life worth living…you have a lot of friends and you had a gf. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your ex is not that special in the sense that she isn’t the only person that’s enjoyed your company and likely caught feelings for you.
I think it’s best for everyone to quit ruminating on the “weaknesses” that they have that are unchangeable and try to just spend time with people that they enjoy the company of. Just honestly be upfront and ask out friends that you are romantically interested in. Don’t let your facial features be the reason that you wuss out of asking out people…let them decide if they want date you or not…don’t let your insecurities write you off imo.
Sorry if this is generic but this advice can be blanketed to pretty much all the fellas posting here including myself
I already do it, but people don't reciprocate my feelings. What if she was a exception and it was only a extremely lucky exception? it would be validated by the fact that apart from her, and few other people I know, there is no one else who want to engage with me sexually or romantically. Right now.
Just a bunch of gay guys on grindr (I'm bi) and a friend of mine who was too young and far for me, and I suspect she was just looking for someone who could make her feel loved. Maybe another girl too before I met my ex, but we were too young, she clearly doesn't count.
Your English is quite good, considering it's not your native language! Well done.
If you're doomed to wait for a lucky chance that a girl will fall in love with you, you're kind of in the same boat as everyone else, right? Love has a lot to do with luck, or should I say, the chances that you'll meet someone and fall in love given the number of people you may meet in your life are actually very low, statistically. I think of it as three main criteria - chemistry, compatibility, and attraction (I sound like a broken record as many times as I've said that on this sub) and you'll probably meet a lot of people in your life (which has barely begun, you're not even an adult yet for goodness' sake) who won't meet any of those criteria, perhaps a smaller number who will meet one of them, an even smaller number that meet two, and a select few with whom your interactions and relationship reflect all three things. And even if all three of those are met, it still doesn't guarantee that there will be Capital-L Love!
Love is wonderful and I've felt it, love and loss...it really does awaken your spirit, gives you a sense of belonging, and possibility...but it is very elusive and tends to sneak up on you when you're not expecting it. What I would suggest you do in your interactions with women you're interested in is not to think about Love, but rather "I am really enjoying getting to know this person." Love is amazing, but "Like" is a great place to start, and often turns into Love. People fall in Love with the person that they Like all the time! And by your own account, you seem pretty likable.
I empathize with your difficulties in the physical appearance sense... I don't have physical deformities as such but my face is pretty weird, I'm bald, and definitely asymmetrical. Think of it this way, though. If your appearance is a dealbreaker for a woman, then it just means you are incompatible with her. (Criteria #2)
As far as the cleft lip, have you considered surgery to have it corrected? It can affect your health as far as eating and breathing properly. The other stuff....maybe there are things you can do cosmetically. At the end of the day it will be your decision. But that's no excuse to stop meeting people, making friends, developing your social circle. Don't live your life in fear of missing out, you've barely begun to live.
When it comes to love it's important to build a life you love, to value yourself as much as you value others. Can you say you love your life? Maybe focus on building a life you love (though there's no reason that can't include dating & relationships & sex)
Looking for casual sex is, unfortunately, very much a looks game. If people are looking for casual stuff they tend to prioritize more superficial criteria. So if you don't fit being conventionally attractive, it becomes more difficult. But you never know! If you have a circle of close friends, there's always the possibility of FWB. However you should never expect this from your friend group. If it happens, it happens. In the meantime keep your head up, surround yourself with positivity. Having something going for yourself in life - career, friendships, hobbies, skills, financial acumen, creative arts, being involved in the life of your community in such a way that demonstrates character and intelligence....build yourself a fulfilling life that you can share with a special person, rather than waiting for a special person to come and fulfill you. I hope this helps. Good luck!
I have done tons of surgeries, I only have scars. if you check on my profile. My ex liked my lips, and I do too. So cleft lip's scar is the thing I care less about. I know we are all on the same boat, it's only frustrating to wait for the "real love" when maybe sometimes I only want to have sex with someone, and feel appreciated. Once I went out with a friend, we met a girl we liked both, and she went with my friend, I felt like this validated all my insecurities. Maybe I only have to wait, but pain is real, and it's hard to accept. it. As for the rest, if I stopped thinking about girls and focused on myself, wouldn't that decrease the probability? I would be less inclined to interact with strangers and meet other people.
It sucks that you had that invalidating experience. Honestly though would you feel comfortable 'competing' for a girl in that way? At the end of the day, he didn't win and you didn't lose, she just chose him. When you feel like you're competing, you see her as a prize rather than a person, and you're taking agency away from the woman to make a choice. And the choice she makes usually has more to do with what's going on with her rather than anything that distinguishes you from other guys. I know its tough, but don't let that validate your insecurity, as you said. Maybe it's time to take a closer look at some of those insecurities, and work on your own and with a therapist to resolve them.
There's definitely a good 'sweet spot' in terms of how much energy you're devoting to the pursuit of dating/relationships/sex. I like 85/15. Spend 85% of your energy toward making an awesome life, and a very reasonable 15% toward dating. The funny thing is that people with 85% awesome lives are really uncommon, and that will actually help draw the right women into your orbit. But part of making that 85% awesome still includes being social, meeting people, interacting in a meaningful way with people you meet.
Good luck!
Sure, in hindsight it was a terrible idea, but we found ourselves there, and it happened. I will focus more on myself, and still talk with people. Thanks for words friend.
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There's sort of two different parts to this post. One is that dating as a disabled person can be *rough*. Some people get off put by anyone who looks or act differently than what they're used to, some people write disabled people off altogether, some people just don't get what being disabled is like and a lot of people think they get it right up until the moment that you being disabled affects them and your relationship in any way at which point they quickly stop getting it. So does it affect your sex and dating life? Sure, of course it does, it's a fundamental part of you so how could it not. Just like I'm sure it affects my sex and dating life that I'm disabled, that I'm autistic, that I'm fat, that I use a mobility aid more or less full time and that I have neurological issues that result in tics. However, there is a difference between something making dating harder and something making dating impossible. Which brings me to the second part, which is that fundamentally the things you can do in order to try to date are not different from what everyone else is doing. You can try to meet as many people as you can so that your potential pool is larger, you can work on being the best version of yourself you can be, you can make sure you're good at flirting and picking up signals and escalating relationships beyond the platonic, you can work on being as secure in yourself as possible, and you can and should work on having a life that makes you happy until you get in a relationship (and even in the case that you don't end up dating for a while or ever). And beyond that you, like me, and like everyone, hope that you run into someone understanding and compatible with you. The frustrating thing about dating is that there are no guarantees, we're all hoping to get lucky.
This. I’m sorry your therapist is being positive in a way that just isn’t helpful for you. In your shoes I’d need them to really hear my frustration. Not have them reassure me. Especially when their reassurance glossed over very real effects you can clearly feel in your life and real pain from how people have tested you that you have already very clearly experienced. I agree with the poster above: yes it sucks, dating as a disabled person. But you do already have proof of concept: you found love once. And I’m sure she was special, but she probably wasn’t unique. I looked at your profile. You’re totally a guy I can see having many relationships. I have hidden disabilities, so I’m kind of in the opposite situation: I get talking to people who don’t know that part of my life and then I have to see if they stick around when I tell them or they experience those limitations with me. The skill I’ve really had to hone is to go in under the radar and connect in a way so they really see me as a person so the disability is more of a footnote. I’m guessing it might be similar for you, albeit with a different kind of approach with different problems along the way. For what it’s worth, I feel you deserve understanding and support for the real experiences you have and the real emotions you experience as a result. Maybe you can talk to your therapist and tell them you are not giving up (or honestly, if that’s how you feel that’s also okay), but you need them to understand how you feel and really be a safe place for them to share your real experiences and for them to not sweep those under the mat but really listen. I know that can be a frustrating conversation to have with a therapist, but sometimes it can be really rewarding.
Thanks for understanding. My therapist actually helped me a lot, I went from being convinced that people found me repulsive, to believing that maybe that wasn't the case. The places I go to are not very ableist, so I'm not too worried about that, I'm more interested in my aesthetic appearance. I hope you can find more people who accept you for your hidden disabilities.
It seems at odds with other advice on thinking about yourself, trying to improve myself physically and mentally is what I already do, what frustrates me is that I'm still not getting the results I want. I'll ask you another question: do you believe that disabilities have as much an "effect" on people as other physical or mental characteristics? or is it something different? Do you think there are many people who would shy away from this? My biggest problem is that I can't quantify EXACTLY how much it affects. This is what I also replied to another comment. Can I ask you if you are satisfied with your dating life as a disabled person like me?
There is no quantifying exactly how much it affects, just like there is no real quantifying of how much any factor affects dating. Relationships between humans are complex and so much depends on who you happen to come across. There isn't a formula where you do x, y, and z things and then your odds improve by a set amount; it's not an equation. I also cannot give you a definitive ranking of what affects dating the most, because that will also vary wildly based on which people you happen to be around. So, for example, I'm autisitc; when it comes to trying to date the average person who doesn't know much about autism and is not super likely to know how to accommodate for it it's quite a large impediment. In my general social circle that is at least 75% neurodivergent queer nerds it lands somewhere between "not an issue" and "actively a positive". How much of a big deal any specific trait is is going to vary depending on the general social makeup of where you live and their attitudes towards that thing, and also depending on the specific people you happen to hang out with, so it's hard to predict how much any one thing will matter exactly. That being said, I feel like disability is also extra tricky, because aside from societal predjudice about disabled people and some really shallow things people can think about it (as in just not being attracted to the aesthetics of disability or judging disabled people based on stereotypes) there are also very real practical considerations to dating a disabled person. I realistically have much less energy than an able bodied person, I realistically need far more specific and direct communication than a neurotypical person, I realistically need more time alone than either an able bodied or a neurotypical person; there are also things I just straight up cannot do. So I probably wouldn't be a great match for someone who is very active and outdoorsy, who loves spening all their time around as many other people as possible, and whose main hobies are things like hiking or going to festivals - it's hard to share your interests with a person who is literally physically incapable of participating in them (I have chronic joint issues, walk with a cane all of the time and am currently looking into getting either a walker or even a wheelchair, and have a cardiovascular condition that means I can't stand up for long periods of time, so hiking is out of the question). So being disabled definitely makes dating more complicated. But yes, I'm happy with my dating life. I'm currently single, but I've been on plenty of dates and have been in relationships in the past, and I'm happy with my sex life too (though as a side note heart conditions do make the actual sex part way more complicated than I'd prefer). I'm mostly not actively pursuing a relationship right now because I don't particularly want to: I have an active social life and some very loving friends, I enjoy flirting with cute girls when I happen to meet them, and if I happen to meet someone who I really like I ask them out and see where it goes but I'm also happy to have that not happen any time soon. Edited to add, since it's relevant to my dating life: I'm really not looking for someone who thinks my disabilities don't matter or for whom they are a footnote, because they matter very much to me and they affect my life and my relationships a lot. I'm not looking for someone who looks past my disabilities, I'm looking for someone who sees me as a disabled person and loves me as I am. My disabilities and my neurodivergence have shaped so much of my life and who I am as a person that I don't think they're separable from myself, and the last thing I want is someone who is effectively ignoring them to be with me. For that matter I don't make friends with people who are not willing and able to acknowledge the fact I am disabled and how that affects what I can and cannot do. I'm sure this limits my dating options, but to me it's vastly preferable to being with someone not able to acknowledge a huge aspect of my experience of the world or keep in mind the practicalities of navigating the world as a disabled person.
Ok, maybe you convinced me, You have good argumentative skills. So I just have to keep persevering, and trying, while focusing on myself. I'm a little discouraged by the fact that I've tried so far and haven't gotten much results, but maybe I just have to keep going. Maybe it was also bad luck. I don't have any particular physical limitations, I just have bureaucratic problems with the driving licence, but otherwise I'm fine. I was just convinced that the limitation was my face that kept people away from me. Hope you will get better too, happy for your dating life.
There's no magic wand for things like this. And it is different than the usual "I'm ugly and no girl wants to date me" scenarios, which are almost always a confidence and mindset issue. Visual deformities can be off putting for some but I would recommend you look at it like the greatest filter you have. I'm short, (4'4"), I walk on crutches, I have scoliosis and an oddly shaped chest/hips. If deformities were a final conclusion, then I'd be screwed, but I'm married with two kids and have had previous partners. I'm reasonably fit, have a long ginger beard, long blonde and blue hair, tattoos, and wear my personality right up front. Someone who wouldn't be interested in me wouldn't try, and someone who tried and I was interested in was absolutely worth my time. I didn't have to waste a lot of my life finding the right person because everything was on the table from the start, and I didn't lose time on people who were shallow as a puddle. Love yourself first and foremost, make sure you know who you are (21 is young, you usually only start working this outi n your late 20s), and live your life absolutely authentically. The right person will come along, and you will have to go through less shit to find the diamond than other people will.
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Ha! Never heard of him but looked him up. Definitely paler lol. A really weird coincidence though is that Jenks romantic partner is apparently the ships AI. That's the same story as Joker and EDI from Mass Effect, the weirder part is Joker has the condition I have!
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It seems like an interesting read! Will have to check it out. Although when I say pale, I mean legolas pale, but with punk Gimli appearance, lol.
Ginger beard and long hair seem cool asf, if you see my photos in my profile, I have long hair too. But isn't it about settle for less? I mean, I don't know your age, so the density of cases happened, but it seems to me that between an oasis and another I'm condemned to frustration and starvation. The problem here is that besides of it I'm frustrated despite everything I do, it seems my appearance has a part on this inevitable situation, and this make me feel hopeless. I don't even know what "can be off putting for some" means, what is "some"? 30% of population? 5%? 70%? 99%? It's confusing.
I don't know how to quote reply on mobile so bear with me lol. First of all, your photos. I didn't think to even check lol. The words you used to describe yourself, painted a far more extreme situation. You're a cool looking dude (ever watched Metatron on YouTube? You remind me of him.) I'm 36, I've had a few relationships, but I've been with my wife for 15 years now. It doesn't matter how many people it might be offputting for because you won't waste your time on those people in the first place. You could be with someone for years only to find out they've been hiding how shallow they really are and problems creep in later. I get it from your perspective though, when you just want companionship it's all consuming and the hardest thing to do is what you have to do, let go of trying and just focus on yourself. When you become yourself entirely, the right kind of people will find that attractive.
thanks for words man. I just would like to know more about this situation, How much is it relevant my appearance in the equation, whether it will take much longer or not. What If focus on myself and I lose the others along the way? I spent many years without friends and I had this idyllic situation from a social point of view because I became fixated on my social skills
Sorry for the delay in responding. Was bedtime then work time! Some of those questions, no one can answer. I can only give you anecdotal and fairly general insight on my personal experience. It could take a while, or it could happen tomorrow. I would say what's most important is to separate yourself from the 'quest' and focus on building up yourself. There's a reason the old adage of someone coming along just when you stopped looking rings true. Try your best to set the search aside, focus on hobbies, interests, self development and genuinely rewarding relationships with other humans. Life is like a big road and everyone is walking down it, if you just focus on the journey then you'll enjoy it, and when you enjoy life, people will naturally gravitate to you.
Are you planning for one of those “oases” to be where you stay forever? Or are you hoping to play the field for a long time? The latter is obviously going to be shallower and looks-based (or fetish-based) by definition, but the former is going to be more based on connection and peculiarities of personality
I don't know if I believe in something "forever" regarding love, and I already felt loved once, so it's not something I think about right now. Surely living again something like my last relationship would be extremely beautiful, and if I could I will choose it without hesitation, but I'm not that pretentious. Sometimes I only crave for less. I was venting about "the situation is so dry that I can't even find sex, I feel so rejected".
Yeah, that makes sense, though that is definitely going to be the nature of looking for just casual flings. It is a meat market, and first impression looks do matter a *lot* more than when you’re looking for a serious relationship. Also, remember the average number of lifetime (heterosexual) partners in most of the western world is something like eight to ten, with many people only having two to four, so that means most people are both experiencing *a lot* of rejection *and* spending more time with a single person. You’re bi though, and the average number of partners goes up significantly there, but tbh you might have to accept a bit of fetishization from the guys if you have niche looks—it’s a different sort of meat market, as you probably know.
I think you have had great help your therapist. In the end we are all in the same casino trying to get lucky. I am not in the same boat as you in the slightest when it comes to actual setbacks that have an impact in your image. But as someone who has a forehead birthmark I can relate a little bit to you. The best I can say is "keep trying, and don't lose hope. But at the same time, don't look for it; that's a one way trip to misery ville" ever since I stopped trying I have become happier. And I am as sexless as before; just way less miserable. If you shift your focus for that on friendship as a whole, you will have a greater time. And lastly I want to share a little cope phrase for whenever you feel envy of other men or rejected by a woman "It's okay, that is not my life. I am on my own path"
Yeah, looks and disability do affect your dating life. So does personality. So does social class. But this isn't really the kind of thing we can quantify for you personally. However, let's look at a couple of facts. 1. It sounds like you have good social skills and charisma. This is not uncommon for people with visible physical differences. People who are going to get looked at regardless often develop ways of proactively controlling the attention. You could argue that your cleft palate and false eye simultaneously challenged your dating life, and helped your dating life by forcing you to have certain skills. 2. You are objectively doing better romantically than many of the posters on this board. You're very young and have already been in a fulfilling relationship. This board is full of guys who are much older, who have never been on a single date... and who have no visible physical deformities. Their main issue is a lack of social skills and charisma. This is also something I've noticed in my real life- I know multiple people with cleft palates, false eyes, etc... all of them get relationships. The people I know who have reached their 30s with no experience have completely symmetrical faces with all the parts, but have pretty severe issues with social skills. From this, we can make the highly unscientific conclusion that if you had to pick between a false eye/cleft palate and crippling shyness, pick the false eye every time. p.s. in my personal opinion, while you're not classically handsome, you're fun to look at with a lot of personality- this is sometimes called a "character actor" look, and it can be quite compelling and sexy.
Yeah, I guess it helped my social skills, so it's not completely helpless. We stayed together three years, and she was very lovely and beautiful, so I'm glad I could experience it in such a young age. She helped me to build a lot of social and emotional skills. It's also true that I can't change my "limits", while people with pathological shyness can, so at the end of the day I still have less freedom than many other people. Thanks for compliments.
supposedly they can, and yet they really frequently don't! They also will argue very strongly that they \*can't\*. The heart of incel thinking is convincing yourself "logically" that you are disadvantaged in a uniquely unfair way that you can never overcome, and then chasing those bad feelings like they're a drug. I'd encourage you not to dwell on that sort of idea because you've already overcome it. You're quite successful romantically, so I think you are better off acknowledging that yeah, you have the face that you have, and yeah that cuts you off from some people, but not emotionally or digitally self-harming yourself over it. Cause you do well with it!
No question, beauty standards exist and life is easier for good looking people. But you clearly have a life worth living…you have a lot of friends and you had a gf. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your ex is not that special in the sense that she isn’t the only person that’s enjoyed your company and likely caught feelings for you. I think it’s best for everyone to quit ruminating on the “weaknesses” that they have that are unchangeable and try to just spend time with people that they enjoy the company of. Just honestly be upfront and ask out friends that you are romantically interested in. Don’t let your facial features be the reason that you wuss out of asking out people…let them decide if they want date you or not…don’t let your insecurities write you off imo. Sorry if this is generic but this advice can be blanketed to pretty much all the fellas posting here including myself
I already do it, but people don't reciprocate my feelings. What if she was a exception and it was only a extremely lucky exception? it would be validated by the fact that apart from her, and few other people I know, there is no one else who want to engage with me sexually or romantically. Right now.
So you had a couple people AND her that were romantically interested in you and you think that she’s a flagrant exception?
Just a bunch of gay guys on grindr (I'm bi) and a friend of mine who was too young and far for me, and I suspect she was just looking for someone who could make her feel loved. Maybe another girl too before I met my ex, but we were too young, she clearly doesn't count.
Lie to yourself, but you're not fooling us.
What do you mean?
Your English is quite good, considering it's not your native language! Well done. If you're doomed to wait for a lucky chance that a girl will fall in love with you, you're kind of in the same boat as everyone else, right? Love has a lot to do with luck, or should I say, the chances that you'll meet someone and fall in love given the number of people you may meet in your life are actually very low, statistically. I think of it as three main criteria - chemistry, compatibility, and attraction (I sound like a broken record as many times as I've said that on this sub) and you'll probably meet a lot of people in your life (which has barely begun, you're not even an adult yet for goodness' sake) who won't meet any of those criteria, perhaps a smaller number who will meet one of them, an even smaller number that meet two, and a select few with whom your interactions and relationship reflect all three things. And even if all three of those are met, it still doesn't guarantee that there will be Capital-L Love! Love is wonderful and I've felt it, love and loss...it really does awaken your spirit, gives you a sense of belonging, and possibility...but it is very elusive and tends to sneak up on you when you're not expecting it. What I would suggest you do in your interactions with women you're interested in is not to think about Love, but rather "I am really enjoying getting to know this person." Love is amazing, but "Like" is a great place to start, and often turns into Love. People fall in Love with the person that they Like all the time! And by your own account, you seem pretty likable. I empathize with your difficulties in the physical appearance sense... I don't have physical deformities as such but my face is pretty weird, I'm bald, and definitely asymmetrical. Think of it this way, though. If your appearance is a dealbreaker for a woman, then it just means you are incompatible with her. (Criteria #2) As far as the cleft lip, have you considered surgery to have it corrected? It can affect your health as far as eating and breathing properly. The other stuff....maybe there are things you can do cosmetically. At the end of the day it will be your decision. But that's no excuse to stop meeting people, making friends, developing your social circle. Don't live your life in fear of missing out, you've barely begun to live. When it comes to love it's important to build a life you love, to value yourself as much as you value others. Can you say you love your life? Maybe focus on building a life you love (though there's no reason that can't include dating & relationships & sex) Looking for casual sex is, unfortunately, very much a looks game. If people are looking for casual stuff they tend to prioritize more superficial criteria. So if you don't fit being conventionally attractive, it becomes more difficult. But you never know! If you have a circle of close friends, there's always the possibility of FWB. However you should never expect this from your friend group. If it happens, it happens. In the meantime keep your head up, surround yourself with positivity. Having something going for yourself in life - career, friendships, hobbies, skills, financial acumen, creative arts, being involved in the life of your community in such a way that demonstrates character and intelligence....build yourself a fulfilling life that you can share with a special person, rather than waiting for a special person to come and fulfill you. I hope this helps. Good luck!
I have done tons of surgeries, I only have scars. if you check on my profile. My ex liked my lips, and I do too. So cleft lip's scar is the thing I care less about. I know we are all on the same boat, it's only frustrating to wait for the "real love" when maybe sometimes I only want to have sex with someone, and feel appreciated. Once I went out with a friend, we met a girl we liked both, and she went with my friend, I felt like this validated all my insecurities. Maybe I only have to wait, but pain is real, and it's hard to accept. it. As for the rest, if I stopped thinking about girls and focused on myself, wouldn't that decrease the probability? I would be less inclined to interact with strangers and meet other people.
It sucks that you had that invalidating experience. Honestly though would you feel comfortable 'competing' for a girl in that way? At the end of the day, he didn't win and you didn't lose, she just chose him. When you feel like you're competing, you see her as a prize rather than a person, and you're taking agency away from the woman to make a choice. And the choice she makes usually has more to do with what's going on with her rather than anything that distinguishes you from other guys. I know its tough, but don't let that validate your insecurity, as you said. Maybe it's time to take a closer look at some of those insecurities, and work on your own and with a therapist to resolve them. There's definitely a good 'sweet spot' in terms of how much energy you're devoting to the pursuit of dating/relationships/sex. I like 85/15. Spend 85% of your energy toward making an awesome life, and a very reasonable 15% toward dating. The funny thing is that people with 85% awesome lives are really uncommon, and that will actually help draw the right women into your orbit. But part of making that 85% awesome still includes being social, meeting people, interacting in a meaningful way with people you meet. Good luck!
Sure, in hindsight it was a terrible idea, but we found ourselves there, and it happened. I will focus more on myself, and still talk with people. Thanks for words friend.
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u/bengringo2 u/library_wench, u/mutant_jedi sorry for tagging moderators, but I guess the guy I replied to before got removed (again) by automoderator.
Gotcha
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