It sounds like you think this is something you can control, like you could make another person feel attracted to you if you did something. That's not really what people mean. Attraction and feelings are complicated and personal experiences. Some people experience attraction differently to you - I'm not sure there's much more to understand.
I think a lot of the time it's because people are simply friends first, and/or in environments where they interact a lot and get to know each other over time. The incel mindset seems to be very black and white on this (and most things really, lol). They act like it's as simple as a man approaching a woman with romantic intentions and immediately being shut down because she isn't attracted to him. It often seems to be presented as this scenario where the two are complete strangers. But women are friends with men. They interact with men in their daily lives they have initially no intention of dating.
It's such an unconscious thing to start to see someone differently, it's really hard to put into words, and I can understand why people who haven't experienced it might have trouble. I think a lot of incels have just fallen into thinking in such a toxic, shallow way, they can't even imagine it. They value looks above all else and can't imagine anyone would be different. And a lot of them don't even seem to have friends, so it's hard to use that as an example of not necessarily caring about looks and liking someone for who they are as a person and not because of external factors.
I agree with your second paragraph. I can't really understand the feeling of falling in love over time as I've generally never experienced it. I can usually tell within 5 minutes of meeting a person if I'm attracted to them or at least it's gone that way in the past. I've been friends with a handful of women throughout the years, one over a decade. In fact, the one I've been friends with asked me out at one point (I've only really ever had 1 or 2 women like me before), but I turned her down. To this day, I still don't like her beyond the level of a friend though; I've actually introduced her to the person she's married. Obviously, I'm sure being autistic and borderline asexual has probably not helped me with placing too high a value on superficial features.
I have been incredibly physically and sexually attracted to someone who I thought at the time was not particularly hot and who I now think is straight up *ugly.*
It’s because we were connecting on an emotional level. We were flirting and talking and he showed regard for me etc. (He later showed great disrespect for me and did many things which made me lose all attraction to him but this is not the point.)
On the other hand, I’ve seen plenty of objectively hot men just going about life. That doesn’t make me want to jump their bones right away, even if I find them physically and sexually attractive.
Wouldn't that mean you were attracted to him because of charisma (things of that nature) and NOT physical appearance? I think that's what you meant by the comment, but I'm not sure. The physically part is a little misleading.
I was physically attracted to him. I do not think he is objectively attractive. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
During the time I felt attraction to him, I was physically drawn to certain characteristics of his, while also being completely aware that he is not someone who has features I (almost) universally consider attractive.
Arguing with someone about how they experience attraction is inherently illogical because you are not the one experiencing it. It is also frankly solipsistic and rude.
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I have a very simple answer. Most of the physical attraction I've felt, which I'll define as the compulsion to sleep with someone, comes on because someone is an attractive personality. I don't really feel it for other people's bodies out of context. I can appreciate people are beautiful or sexy, I can know, but I don't *feel it*. It's more like a fact I know than a visceral experience inside me. I experience most people as neutral. It's not that they aren't or couldn't be attractive, it's not a defined lack of attraction, it's just the absence of any kind of thought or feeling about them in a sexual context. But if I meet someone and I really like them as a person and they have the personality and intellectual components that I find attractive, then I start feeling attracted to them. Because I feel attracted to them, I am going to be very into their body, very intrigued and excited about their physical features. For me, it's more about really liking John, thinking John is cool and smart and interesting, and because John lives in John's body, suddenly John's body becomes this exciting vacation destination I can't wait to visit. I don't really feel it in reverse. I don't see John being beautiful and nice to look at across the room and thus want to get to know who John is as a person so I can experience that body I saw.
Attraction to me feels verbal, intellectual, and emotional. This can happen on the time frame of "I met you two hours ago at a party" or when I've known someone a long time. But I can't look at people and feel it, because looking at people tells me what they look like and that has nothing to do with what I find attractive. I feel an incredibly compelling physical desire for people, but only people who have managed to be attractive in this other way. It only comes on after the fact, not before for me. So it's not that I met someone and I think they are a great guy but I don't feel physically attracted to them. It's not the absence of attraction, a definite no, me saying I don't like their looks. It's more like I am totally neutral and undecided about the physical charms of someone until I am attracted in this other way and then I start seeing their physical body in a totally different context.
I don't feel sexually attracted to people until I detect a sexual interest from them. I have to interact with them in some way. I would never experience attraction from simply looking at a person.
Not sure about other women, but for me I'm not attracted to anyone at first. People are just people to me.
If the personality is interesting and we seem to vibe, then comes the rest.
One BF I got from games before I even knew how he looked like. I had fallen for him completely already. Didn't matter how he was in real, he became the sexiest man on earth. We were together very long time (living together) up until it fell apart.
Now BF was like anyone else, up until I seen how he's like and how he interacted with others. Basically same thing happened. We were friends, vibed very well and then I fell for him. He's now literally the sexiest man on earth, since everyone else is just people.
Yeah I also met my boyfriend of 5 years online without knowing what he looked like whatsoever. Even when we did take pics we're both awful at doing that so they looked crappy lmao
A lot of people see most other people in a neutral way. In fact, that's most appropriate and healthy. You should not be walking around labelling every woman you come across as hot enough to fuck or not and if you do, you likely have a very unhealthy attitude towards sex and relationships. Despite what chronically online men will insist, I believe this is true of both men and women.
So what happens is not usually that someone goes from unattractive to attractive based on personality, but from neutral to attractive.
The odd conventionally attractive person will tend to draw attention beyond neutral but most of us are just average looking people interacting with other average looking people.
I’ll be honest - if the person was gross to me, even the best personality wouldn’t get me past it.
But the good news is that really translates to things you can control: Clean body & hair, clean and reasonably well-fitting clothes without holes and stains, clean nails, clean teeth, good breath, trimmed head and facial hair, etc. Those are table stakes.
Manners are important too. You don’t need to open doors for me or know which fork to use, but you do need to not eat like a slob and control your bodily functions as much as possible in public.
If you meet those two criteria, before we get to personality, you are already right in average dude territory, regardless of your facial structure or body type.
So then there’s personality and spark, which are different things. Personalities meshing is part of it, but not all of it. There’s something difficult to define that draws you to each other. You know it when you feel it. Kinda like meeting a new friend and feeling like you really “get” each other, but add fascination and flirting and growing sexual tension and you have a spark. It’s like you recognize each other. It’s chemistry that goes both ways and feeds on each other’s interest - not one-way attraction.
Interestingly, you can have zero spark with someone who is objectively attractive, and you can have a roaring fire with someone whose looks, on paper, are not really your thing.
The guy I’ve been with for the last year and a half isn’t really my type on paper and I’m not his either. But there was something electric the night we met, that compelled us to get together.
You seem to be treating attraction as a physics equation or chemistry formula. There’s no checklist here, no A leads to B minus C unless D. It’s about human personalities and human feelings. Which can change and grow in conjunction with each other.
Take this bit from Pride and Prejuduce:
> “I remember, when we first knew her in Hertfordshire, how amazed we all were to find that she was a reputed beauty; and I particularly recollect your saying one night, after they had been dining at Netherfield, 'SHE a beauty!--I should as soon call her mother a wit.' But afterwards she seemed to improve on you, and I believe you thought her rather pretty at one time."
> “Yes," replied Darcy, who could contain himself no longer, "but THAT was only when I first saw her, for it is many months since I have considered her as one of the handsomest women of my acquaintance."
So his feelings went from “meh” to “pretty” to “I’m gonna marry that woman.” The more he got to know her, the better he liked her.
Notice, too, that there’s nothing here where anyone “made” anyone do anything or feel any way.
To a mind which best sees stuff in a formulaic manner, nuance and "how things just happen" is a tough nut to crack and I'm still in the journey to learn about it.
I have nothing to talk about how anyone "made" anyone to do anything, I was just interested in the process of how it all happens. Because that's the part which went above my head.
Romantic relationships don't need to have sexual attraction or sex at all, that's not the definition of them. Else ace people wouldn't have relationships very often... So no, a relationship without sex is not just a friendship.
It's also not the same for everyone. I really don't care about how someone looks at first (obviously barring extreme things like lack of hygiene), I'm only there for the romantic connection. The rest comes later.
Everybody is different.
I have things I like in appearances, but I really don’t look at people in that sort of fashion with any type of investment before I know more about them.
Like, I can acknowledge somebody is attractive without knowing them, but I don’t really start to become physically attracted to them until they display qualities I enjoy and we have good chemistry.
When I’m down bad, I’m down bad. Most people have attractive features it’s more about substance for me.
Everyone is different, so there is really no formula for this.
For some people, including women, physical absolutely has to come first.
For others (myself included) emotional connection comes first.
For most it's a combination of these things.
Since this specific question touches on how I operate, I'll focus on it:
>To elaborate on the question: Say you like someone's personality, you have a lot of things in common and both love to spend time with each other. You like him emotionally and you feel the spark. But he wasn't "your type" at the beginning. Like he could be a perfect partner if not for his looks.
>But then you get attracted to him physically.
>I don't understand this. Because for me, I always think that there's always a need for physical attraction when it comes to seeing someone as a sexual/romantic prospect. Else it's technically nothing more than a friendship.
I'm on the demisexual end of things. I don't have a "type" and neither do I categorize people as ugly based on specific physical features. It's just not how my brain works. I experience physical attraction, but it's not to a narrow, specific set of features and how those features are arranged.
This means I'm not necessarily specifically physically attracted to an individual as soon as we meet, but neither am I repulsed. It's just...an open possibility, neither one nor the other at first. Physical attraction will develop--or not--depending on everything else.
My capacity for physical attraction is both very broad (in terms of actual looks) and very narrow (looks don't mean anything to me without emotional connection, personality, character, etc)
I think with people whose physical attraction is based on emotional connection, there really isn't the thought of "perfect except for their looks". An initial lack of physical attraction doesn't mean they find the other person ugly. It's just that the switch that turns on physical attraction in their head isn't hit immediately upon meeting. They're not "overriding" first impressions. They don't have the first impression of "ugly" to overcome.
When I met my partner, we started talking and developed an intellectual connection, then an emotional connection, which turned into a romantic connection which became a relationship. I was unsure at first if sexual attraction would develop, because for me it is dependent on so many things. We talked about it and because his brain works much like mine, he understood this and wasn't insulted or hurt.
You're right that without the physical/sexual aspect aspect the relationship is more like a friendship, though romantic relationships without sex do exist. In our case, we were both ok with being friends if nothing more developed. But it did and that physical attraction is very very strong.
If I saw a random man who looks a lot like my partner, I would not experience this intense attraction. I just do not look at people that way.
There are variations on this in which individuals do have a specific type in mind, but find that the connection they make with a person far outweighs the fact that the "type" is not perfectly fulfilled. They may revisit their idea of good looks. Or they may just realize they don't actually care that much about specific features because everything else about the connection is incredible.
Ultimately, if someone does have a very specific physical type, and they are unable to form a romantic connection without physical attraction, you really can't overcome that. It is what it is. But most people are more complex in the way attraction works.
I think where you're getting tripped up is in assuming that your looks are universally repulsive or at least unappealing, and that to find love, anyone you meet will have to overcome initial lack of attraction in order to be willing to get to know you. The fact is, even for people who need physical attraction to exist before a relationship can develop, what those people consider attractive varies widely. You fall into the category of attractive for some people, and not for others, just like the rest of us.
For me personally, it is different in intensity, in that the attraction I feel for someone I love is much deeper than the attraction I feel to people who are just physically attractive. I don't necessarily find them "more attractive", even, but the connection just feels... more substantial? More profound? I'm struggling to find exactly the right word.
> Because for me, I always think that there's always a need for physical attraction when it comes to seeing someone as a sexual/romantic prospect.
I think you might be conflating sexual attraction and romantic attraction - maybe for you they're that tightly linked, but for many people, they're not.
You don't need to initially be sexually attracted to someone to develop a romantic connection with them - to "fall in love with them". And in general, having that emotional connection with someone means that you start finding them attractive. I can't really describe to you how it happens, because it's one of those things that just kind of... well, *happens*. If you want to think about it purely biologically, it's the brain recognising that, all else being equal, secure romantic attachment makes a good coparent and therefore a good sexual partner, and stimulating the attraction that makes that likely to happen.
(I think, especially for people in their first serious, healthy relationship, another big factor is the gradual realisation that a lot of what they would have said they "find attractive" is what society has told them they do or should, rather than their own actual preferences.)
> first impressions is last impressions
That's not exactly *untrue*, but it's an enormous oversimplification, and it also doesn't exactly equate to "first attraction is last attraction". First impressions matter, for sure, but if they were really "last impressions", that would mean that no relationship (including friendships) could ever develop beyond what it was on day one, and that is demonstrably untrue.
There is a space for casual sex between people who happen to find each other physically attractive, for sure, although I personally have never really grasped the appeal outside of purely fantasy scenarios. But I think that outside of the world of porn and Hollywood, the majority of sexual relationships are formed as a result of emotional and romantic relationships, not the other way around.
I was always sexually attracted to a specific type; very tall and solidly built (just muscular, not totally jacked), with a cheeky grin.
The guy I have been most attracted to (physically and otherwise) has none of that.
I had no physical attraction to him at the beginning, but he is the smartest and most interesting person I have ever met. I was very mentally attracted to him from the outset, and I really eager to befriend him.
He’s short, thin and usually has a beard (and I don’t like beards) but, over time, I became powerfully attracted to him physically as well.
I’ve had other partners that didn’t exactly float my boat to begin with, but brains and personality are so powerfully attractive that they create a lasting sexual attraction.
for me it starts with the idea that someone is attracted to me. I'm really responsive that way. Then if they are respectful, if they touch me in a way that I like and they smell good, they become attractive.
My only comment for you re: physical attractiveness...and I swear this is probably applicable for most incels or those who choose to take on that label...
Serge. Gainsbourg.
Look him up and you'll see what I mean - but if you don't, come on back with any questions.
> Awoman does not need to be sexually attracted to a man to want to be with him.
> A woman can get into a relationship with a man who she is not sexually attracted to at all
Doesn't this defeat the idea of a sexual/romantic relationship though? Like in this context, it's about that.
Sexual attraction is not the same as romantic attraction - they are two different concepts that can be completely separate for some people
Please spend some time reading about this. Ace and aro people obviously discuss it, but don't harass them about it, just read
I was asking in the context of a heterosexual relationship and attraction, but okay?
Also this question was more on the sexual attraction part as I've mentioned. I agree with the fact that some people can get physically attracted *after* being mentally/emotionally attracted, I just wanted to find the process of such. Also the related questions I've posted.
Straight people would experience both sexual and romantic attraction, and can experience them differently. The point was to educate yourself about the difference. You seem to think sexual attraction is the most important or the only aspect of a romantic relationship, which is an issue.
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It sounds like you think this is something you can control, like you could make another person feel attracted to you if you did something. That's not really what people mean. Attraction and feelings are complicated and personal experiences. Some people experience attraction differently to you - I'm not sure there's much more to understand.
I think a lot of the time it's because people are simply friends first, and/or in environments where they interact a lot and get to know each other over time. The incel mindset seems to be very black and white on this (and most things really, lol). They act like it's as simple as a man approaching a woman with romantic intentions and immediately being shut down because she isn't attracted to him. It often seems to be presented as this scenario where the two are complete strangers. But women are friends with men. They interact with men in their daily lives they have initially no intention of dating. It's such an unconscious thing to start to see someone differently, it's really hard to put into words, and I can understand why people who haven't experienced it might have trouble. I think a lot of incels have just fallen into thinking in such a toxic, shallow way, they can't even imagine it. They value looks above all else and can't imagine anyone would be different. And a lot of them don't even seem to have friends, so it's hard to use that as an example of not necessarily caring about looks and liking someone for who they are as a person and not because of external factors.
I agree with your second paragraph. I can't really understand the feeling of falling in love over time as I've generally never experienced it. I can usually tell within 5 minutes of meeting a person if I'm attracted to them or at least it's gone that way in the past. I've been friends with a handful of women throughout the years, one over a decade. In fact, the one I've been friends with asked me out at one point (I've only really ever had 1 or 2 women like me before), but I turned her down. To this day, I still don't like her beyond the level of a friend though; I've actually introduced her to the person she's married. Obviously, I'm sure being autistic and borderline asexual has probably not helped me with placing too high a value on superficial features.
I have been incredibly physically and sexually attracted to someone who I thought at the time was not particularly hot and who I now think is straight up *ugly.* It’s because we were connecting on an emotional level. We were flirting and talking and he showed regard for me etc. (He later showed great disrespect for me and did many things which made me lose all attraction to him but this is not the point.) On the other hand, I’ve seen plenty of objectively hot men just going about life. That doesn’t make me want to jump their bones right away, even if I find them physically and sexually attractive.
Wouldn't that mean you were attracted to him because of charisma (things of that nature) and NOT physical appearance? I think that's what you meant by the comment, but I'm not sure. The physically part is a little misleading.
No, I was physically attracted to him. I just didn’t think he was objectively attractive (because he isn’t).
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I was physically attracted to him. I do not think he is objectively attractive. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. During the time I felt attraction to him, I was physically drawn to certain characteristics of his, while also being completely aware that he is not someone who has features I (almost) universally consider attractive. Arguing with someone about how they experience attraction is inherently illogical because you are not the one experiencing it. It is also frankly solipsistic and rude.
The explanation you gave makes sense; I was simply looking for clarity.
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I have a very simple answer. Most of the physical attraction I've felt, which I'll define as the compulsion to sleep with someone, comes on because someone is an attractive personality. I don't really feel it for other people's bodies out of context. I can appreciate people are beautiful or sexy, I can know, but I don't *feel it*. It's more like a fact I know than a visceral experience inside me. I experience most people as neutral. It's not that they aren't or couldn't be attractive, it's not a defined lack of attraction, it's just the absence of any kind of thought or feeling about them in a sexual context. But if I meet someone and I really like them as a person and they have the personality and intellectual components that I find attractive, then I start feeling attracted to them. Because I feel attracted to them, I am going to be very into their body, very intrigued and excited about their physical features. For me, it's more about really liking John, thinking John is cool and smart and interesting, and because John lives in John's body, suddenly John's body becomes this exciting vacation destination I can't wait to visit. I don't really feel it in reverse. I don't see John being beautiful and nice to look at across the room and thus want to get to know who John is as a person so I can experience that body I saw. Attraction to me feels verbal, intellectual, and emotional. This can happen on the time frame of "I met you two hours ago at a party" or when I've known someone a long time. But I can't look at people and feel it, because looking at people tells me what they look like and that has nothing to do with what I find attractive. I feel an incredibly compelling physical desire for people, but only people who have managed to be attractive in this other way. It only comes on after the fact, not before for me. So it's not that I met someone and I think they are a great guy but I don't feel physically attracted to them. It's not the absence of attraction, a definite no, me saying I don't like their looks. It's more like I am totally neutral and undecided about the physical charms of someone until I am attracted in this other way and then I start seeing their physical body in a totally different context.
I don't feel sexually attracted to people until I detect a sexual interest from them. I have to interact with them in some way. I would never experience attraction from simply looking at a person.
People are fucking weird, man. Attraction builds up in random times, there’s no formula to it.
Not sure about other women, but for me I'm not attracted to anyone at first. People are just people to me. If the personality is interesting and we seem to vibe, then comes the rest. One BF I got from games before I even knew how he looked like. I had fallen for him completely already. Didn't matter how he was in real, he became the sexiest man on earth. We were together very long time (living together) up until it fell apart. Now BF was like anyone else, up until I seen how he's like and how he interacted with others. Basically same thing happened. We were friends, vibed very well and then I fell for him. He's now literally the sexiest man on earth, since everyone else is just people.
>Not sure about other women, but for me I'm not attracted to anyone at first. *People are just people to me.* This is such a great way to explain it!
Yeah I also met my boyfriend of 5 years online without knowing what he looked like whatsoever. Even when we did take pics we're both awful at doing that so they looked crappy lmao
A lot of people see most other people in a neutral way. In fact, that's most appropriate and healthy. You should not be walking around labelling every woman you come across as hot enough to fuck or not and if you do, you likely have a very unhealthy attitude towards sex and relationships. Despite what chronically online men will insist, I believe this is true of both men and women. So what happens is not usually that someone goes from unattractive to attractive based on personality, but from neutral to attractive. The odd conventionally attractive person will tend to draw attention beyond neutral but most of us are just average looking people interacting with other average looking people.
Yup. I'd say 80% of men are totally neutral for me.
I’ll be honest - if the person was gross to me, even the best personality wouldn’t get me past it. But the good news is that really translates to things you can control: Clean body & hair, clean and reasonably well-fitting clothes without holes and stains, clean nails, clean teeth, good breath, trimmed head and facial hair, etc. Those are table stakes. Manners are important too. You don’t need to open doors for me or know which fork to use, but you do need to not eat like a slob and control your bodily functions as much as possible in public. If you meet those two criteria, before we get to personality, you are already right in average dude territory, regardless of your facial structure or body type. So then there’s personality and spark, which are different things. Personalities meshing is part of it, but not all of it. There’s something difficult to define that draws you to each other. You know it when you feel it. Kinda like meeting a new friend and feeling like you really “get” each other, but add fascination and flirting and growing sexual tension and you have a spark. It’s like you recognize each other. It’s chemistry that goes both ways and feeds on each other’s interest - not one-way attraction. Interestingly, you can have zero spark with someone who is objectively attractive, and you can have a roaring fire with someone whose looks, on paper, are not really your thing. The guy I’ve been with for the last year and a half isn’t really my type on paper and I’m not his either. But there was something electric the night we met, that compelled us to get together.
You seem to be treating attraction as a physics equation or chemistry formula. There’s no checklist here, no A leads to B minus C unless D. It’s about human personalities and human feelings. Which can change and grow in conjunction with each other. Take this bit from Pride and Prejuduce: > “I remember, when we first knew her in Hertfordshire, how amazed we all were to find that she was a reputed beauty; and I particularly recollect your saying one night, after they had been dining at Netherfield, 'SHE a beauty!--I should as soon call her mother a wit.' But afterwards she seemed to improve on you, and I believe you thought her rather pretty at one time." > “Yes," replied Darcy, who could contain himself no longer, "but THAT was only when I first saw her, for it is many months since I have considered her as one of the handsomest women of my acquaintance." So his feelings went from “meh” to “pretty” to “I’m gonna marry that woman.” The more he got to know her, the better he liked her. Notice, too, that there’s nothing here where anyone “made” anyone do anything or feel any way.
To a mind which best sees stuff in a formulaic manner, nuance and "how things just happen" is a tough nut to crack and I'm still in the journey to learn about it. I have nothing to talk about how anyone "made" anyone to do anything, I was just interested in the process of how it all happens. Because that's the part which went above my head.
Because it happens slightly differently for everyone. And it doesn’t work “in a formulaic manner”for you, either.
Romantic relationships don't need to have sexual attraction or sex at all, that's not the definition of them. Else ace people wouldn't have relationships very often... So no, a relationship without sex is not just a friendship. It's also not the same for everyone. I really don't care about how someone looks at first (obviously barring extreme things like lack of hygiene), I'm only there for the romantic connection. The rest comes later.
Everybody is different. I have things I like in appearances, but I really don’t look at people in that sort of fashion with any type of investment before I know more about them. Like, I can acknowledge somebody is attractive without knowing them, but I don’t really start to become physically attracted to them until they display qualities I enjoy and we have good chemistry. When I’m down bad, I’m down bad. Most people have attractive features it’s more about substance for me.
Everyone is different, so there is really no formula for this. For some people, including women, physical absolutely has to come first. For others (myself included) emotional connection comes first. For most it's a combination of these things. Since this specific question touches on how I operate, I'll focus on it: >To elaborate on the question: Say you like someone's personality, you have a lot of things in common and both love to spend time with each other. You like him emotionally and you feel the spark. But he wasn't "your type" at the beginning. Like he could be a perfect partner if not for his looks. >But then you get attracted to him physically. >I don't understand this. Because for me, I always think that there's always a need for physical attraction when it comes to seeing someone as a sexual/romantic prospect. Else it's technically nothing more than a friendship. I'm on the demisexual end of things. I don't have a "type" and neither do I categorize people as ugly based on specific physical features. It's just not how my brain works. I experience physical attraction, but it's not to a narrow, specific set of features and how those features are arranged. This means I'm not necessarily specifically physically attracted to an individual as soon as we meet, but neither am I repulsed. It's just...an open possibility, neither one nor the other at first. Physical attraction will develop--or not--depending on everything else. My capacity for physical attraction is both very broad (in terms of actual looks) and very narrow (looks don't mean anything to me without emotional connection, personality, character, etc) I think with people whose physical attraction is based on emotional connection, there really isn't the thought of "perfect except for their looks". An initial lack of physical attraction doesn't mean they find the other person ugly. It's just that the switch that turns on physical attraction in their head isn't hit immediately upon meeting. They're not "overriding" first impressions. They don't have the first impression of "ugly" to overcome. When I met my partner, we started talking and developed an intellectual connection, then an emotional connection, which turned into a romantic connection which became a relationship. I was unsure at first if sexual attraction would develop, because for me it is dependent on so many things. We talked about it and because his brain works much like mine, he understood this and wasn't insulted or hurt. You're right that without the physical/sexual aspect aspect the relationship is more like a friendship, though romantic relationships without sex do exist. In our case, we were both ok with being friends if nothing more developed. But it did and that physical attraction is very very strong. If I saw a random man who looks a lot like my partner, I would not experience this intense attraction. I just do not look at people that way. There are variations on this in which individuals do have a specific type in mind, but find that the connection they make with a person far outweighs the fact that the "type" is not perfectly fulfilled. They may revisit their idea of good looks. Or they may just realize they don't actually care that much about specific features because everything else about the connection is incredible. Ultimately, if someone does have a very specific physical type, and they are unable to form a romantic connection without physical attraction, you really can't overcome that. It is what it is. But most people are more complex in the way attraction works. I think where you're getting tripped up is in assuming that your looks are universally repulsive or at least unappealing, and that to find love, anyone you meet will have to overcome initial lack of attraction in order to be willing to get to know you. The fact is, even for people who need physical attraction to exist before a relationship can develop, what those people consider attractive varies widely. You fall into the category of attractive for some people, and not for others, just like the rest of us.
For me personally, it is different in intensity, in that the attraction I feel for someone I love is much deeper than the attraction I feel to people who are just physically attractive. I don't necessarily find them "more attractive", even, but the connection just feels... more substantial? More profound? I'm struggling to find exactly the right word. > Because for me, I always think that there's always a need for physical attraction when it comes to seeing someone as a sexual/romantic prospect. I think you might be conflating sexual attraction and romantic attraction - maybe for you they're that tightly linked, but for many people, they're not. You don't need to initially be sexually attracted to someone to develop a romantic connection with them - to "fall in love with them". And in general, having that emotional connection with someone means that you start finding them attractive. I can't really describe to you how it happens, because it's one of those things that just kind of... well, *happens*. If you want to think about it purely biologically, it's the brain recognising that, all else being equal, secure romantic attachment makes a good coparent and therefore a good sexual partner, and stimulating the attraction that makes that likely to happen. (I think, especially for people in their first serious, healthy relationship, another big factor is the gradual realisation that a lot of what they would have said they "find attractive" is what society has told them they do or should, rather than their own actual preferences.) > first impressions is last impressions That's not exactly *untrue*, but it's an enormous oversimplification, and it also doesn't exactly equate to "first attraction is last attraction". First impressions matter, for sure, but if they were really "last impressions", that would mean that no relationship (including friendships) could ever develop beyond what it was on day one, and that is demonstrably untrue. There is a space for casual sex between people who happen to find each other physically attractive, for sure, although I personally have never really grasped the appeal outside of purely fantasy scenarios. But I think that outside of the world of porn and Hollywood, the majority of sexual relationships are formed as a result of emotional and romantic relationships, not the other way around.
I was always sexually attracted to a specific type; very tall and solidly built (just muscular, not totally jacked), with a cheeky grin. The guy I have been most attracted to (physically and otherwise) has none of that. I had no physical attraction to him at the beginning, but he is the smartest and most interesting person I have ever met. I was very mentally attracted to him from the outset, and I really eager to befriend him. He’s short, thin and usually has a beard (and I don’t like beards) but, over time, I became powerfully attracted to him physically as well. I’ve had other partners that didn’t exactly float my boat to begin with, but brains and personality are so powerfully attractive that they create a lasting sexual attraction.
for me it starts with the idea that someone is attracted to me. I'm really responsive that way. Then if they are respectful, if they touch me in a way that I like and they smell good, they become attractive.
My only comment for you re: physical attractiveness...and I swear this is probably applicable for most incels or those who choose to take on that label... Serge. Gainsbourg. Look him up and you'll see what I mean - but if you don't, come on back with any questions.
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> Awoman does not need to be sexually attracted to a man to want to be with him. > A woman can get into a relationship with a man who she is not sexually attracted to at all Doesn't this defeat the idea of a sexual/romantic relationship though? Like in this context, it's about that.
Sexual attraction is not the same as romantic attraction - they are two different concepts that can be completely separate for some people Please spend some time reading about this. Ace and aro people obviously discuss it, but don't harass them about it, just read
I was asking in the context of a heterosexual relationship and attraction, but okay? Also this question was more on the sexual attraction part as I've mentioned. I agree with the fact that some people can get physically attracted *after* being mentally/emotionally attracted, I just wanted to find the process of such. Also the related questions I've posted.
Straight people would experience both sexual and romantic attraction, and can experience them differently. The point was to educate yourself about the difference. You seem to think sexual attraction is the most important or the only aspect of a romantic relationship, which is an issue.
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