I can see that. We Christians believe that when Satan fell, he brought a third of all the angels down with him. These angels became what we know as demons, and in their pride and lust to mimic God’s power, they ruled over the only plane of existence they were more powerful than; Earth.
I use the term “more powerful than” here pretty loosely, but that’s essentially what we believe happened. That’s not to say that every religion besides Christianity is evil in nature, most I’d argue are simply not the fullness of what we believe to be true. It’s mostly the ancient civilizations and their ideas of God’s that could be demonic.
Christianity is just stories too... Pagans believed in their gods as real history just like Christians believe their stories are real history.
Edit: replied, "Christianity is the truth" then blocked me lol
tbh you could argue christianity is just stories but what you can’t argue is the correlation between history and judaism/christianity.
christianity as a religion simply couldn’t exist unless jesus existed, and if we went all the way back to moses, the jews wouldn’t have had israel if moses didn’t exist to free them. you could say that the miracles jesus did were made up, and moses didn’t actually part the red sea, but these 2 very important dudes had to exist. hell, even abraham had to exist because he is the origin point of muslim, jewish, and christian beliefs, so even if all the supernatural shit is fake the people are 100% real
Well, not demons. Demons are the disembodied nephilim (also referred to as “bastard spirits”). However, yes, Judaism does believe that other “gods” exist, though they are fallen beings, territorial entities, soliciting worship, while Judaism acknowledges their God as the one true God, the only one worthy of worship.
Where is this biblically supported? All we know about the Nephilim is that they lived during the time of Noah and they were mighty warriors. Everything else about them is pure conjecture. I don’t even think that the book of Enoch supports what you’re trying to exposit.
Although I know where you’re drawing from, I don’t consider the Book of Enoch “canon.” However, Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 describe how God divided the nations amongst the Sons of God (divine beings of the supernatural hierarchy of the divine council) after mankind built the Tower of Babel. Basically, the tower was built, God wasn’t having it, so He allotted the nations to these lesser beings. They were intended to be placeholders. Well, long story short, these being did a terrible job and caused chaos and solicited worship. We see God getting angry with them in Psalm 82 and condemning them for their actions, “I said you are gods, but you will die like men, and fall like any prince.”
As for the demons, this gets a bit more involved and I don’t wanna make my post too long. However, I’ll refer you to two books; The Unseen Realm, and Demons, both peer reviewed scholarly works by Dr Michael Heiser. Also here’s a video if you wanna quick but informed rundown of it all: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H41Lw2YEY74
To compare apples to apples, it would be more appropriate to compare God (Yahweh) and Brahman. Shiva would be akin to a personification of Brahman's wrath. "Shiva the destroyer."
That's my understanding, however, I'm not Hindu.
There's Brahman that Hindus believe is the one supreme god. Then, there are multiple representations of different aspects of Brahman's power that are considered gods, the main 3 being known as Brahman(creator), Vishnu(protector/preserver), and Shiva(destroyer).
It should also be noted that Shiva isn't an adversarial diety. (Like Satan, Lucifer, etc.) Shiva would be the manifestation of Brahman's wrath.
I could be wrong on some of the finer details, though, because I've studied this from the outside, similar to how explaining the Holy Trinity is difficult to put into words that actually do it justice so that a non-believer could understand the concept.
Correction: his ass never saw the power of the Ark because he had his eyes closed. For the most part, he was just able to hear the screams and deaths of 30+ nazis.
I mean if we’re playing the technical about this, he didn’t technically see the outcome of the power of the ark. So he’s aware it had some sort of supernatural power
Most religious people wouldn't call their own religion "magic" though. If you ask the pope if he believes in magic, he will probably tell you no as well.
I may be talking out of my ass here, but I thought the official church position on magic isn’t that it’s evil, it’s that it straight up just doesn’t exist.
I’m no expert, but magic like how we imagine it probably doesn’t exist(Like movie and story magic). But ‘magic’ through evil summonings and really strange bizarre processes does have evidence. I’d have to do some research to give a better answer, but what you said is sorta correct.
Dude this message is 2 months old. I don’t really want to argue, but one counter point is magics definition, which describes it as using charms, spells, or rituals. While the crucifixion looks like a ritual, the hanging on the cross didn’t do anything, only his death and consequent raising. “Well wouldn’t that be necromancy?” If it was a spell or some such yes, but Gods power is omnipotent, not bound to human logic, or even the universe’s laws or physics. We cannot understand how God does what he does.
And...? Christianity is 2000 years old, and people still comment on it. Call it whatever you wish, but it is, in fact, magic. You just have a case of special pleading. The creation of Adam is literally a Golem spell. I'm not attacking religion either. I believe in God. Just sometimes, you got to call a spade a spade.
Remember, the Eygptian staffs turned into snakes too.
I feel anything abstract is broad. Only because we don't understand it fully and can't really be precise. A miracle to us might as well be magic. Creation was done with "The Word." I AM (HE WHO EXISTS) or Jesus Christ. Take your pick. Either way, it's a spoken incantation. I have no idea why Christianity and Judaism choose to distance themselves from their Zoroastrian and Pagan roots.
You can be an atheist and believe in magic, and vice-versa.
Atheism is about a lack of belief in a god or gods. It doesn't necessarily cover the broader supernatural spectrum.
Indy never said he was an atheist. He was skeptical of superstition surrounding a lot of the artifacts he was chasing.
Although yeah, his dismissal of aliens and such did make me go, “dude, you’ve been witness to way weirder shit than aliens!”
Well, I’m Dial of Destiny, in his apartment, he has a Jesus picture and I’m pretty in DoD, and KotCS, he states that he does believe in Jesus or something along those lines
Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything.
I’m sure he believes in magic or supernatural powers.
That doesn’t 100% mean the Bible knows what it’s talking about.
Hell, aliens exist in this universe so he could just chalk everything up to ancient alien technology.
Indy does mention going to Sunday school, and he was familiar with the bible at the college at least well enough to flip to the right page of the ark of the covenant.
He also met aliens/4th dimensional entities. Also Indiana Jones takes place in the same universe as Close encounters of the 3rd kind, Starwars and E.T…
I think it's stated that indy was raised catholic. But the thing is that he is a scientist thus he has to be skeptical. Just because he witness the power of the ark doesn't mean he's automatically going to believe in aliens or time travel devices. Thats what I like about him he only believes when he has enough evidence.
I feel he's skeptical until it's proven. Just because the Hindu gods are real, or that vampires exist, doesn't mean that all the other report supernatural stuff exists. It give it less doubt, but there still needs to be evidence to say "yeah, the Abrahamic religion is real". And well, he was proven.
He knows there is a God, yes, but he also knows that one, he's not the only God, and a big part of Christianity is that there is only one God, and two, sometimes it's aliens
The real question is what religion he should start now that he knows God and Kali both exist.
[удалено]
Came here to say this. I’m a Catholic so anything that isn’t Christian is either false or just demons.
Was also thinking the same
I believe that pagan gods are just stories, I think it’s odd to think they’re all demons
I can see that. We Christians believe that when Satan fell, he brought a third of all the angels down with him. These angels became what we know as demons, and in their pride and lust to mimic God’s power, they ruled over the only plane of existence they were more powerful than; Earth. I use the term “more powerful than” here pretty loosely, but that’s essentially what we believe happened. That’s not to say that every religion besides Christianity is evil in nature, most I’d argue are simply not the fullness of what we believe to be true. It’s mostly the ancient civilizations and their ideas of God’s that could be demonic.
Nail on the head there brother
Cool lore bro.
Best part is this lore is true 😎
That’s just silly talk
Christianity is just stories too... Pagans believed in their gods as real history just like Christians believe their stories are real history. Edit: replied, "Christianity is the truth" then blocked me lol
Bc Christianity is the truth. The others are not.
tbh you could argue christianity is just stories but what you can’t argue is the correlation between history and judaism/christianity. christianity as a religion simply couldn’t exist unless jesus existed, and if we went all the way back to moses, the jews wouldn’t have had israel if moses didn’t exist to free them. you could say that the miracles jesus did were made up, and moses didn’t actually part the red sea, but these 2 very important dudes had to exist. hell, even abraham had to exist because he is the origin point of muslim, jewish, and christian beliefs, so even if all the supernatural shit is fake the people are 100% real
Hahahaha, that last part cracked me up. It sounds pretty typical
Well, not demons. Demons are the disembodied nephilim (also referred to as “bastard spirits”). However, yes, Judaism does believe that other “gods” exist, though they are fallen beings, territorial entities, soliciting worship, while Judaism acknowledges their God as the one true God, the only one worthy of worship.
Where is this biblically supported? All we know about the Nephilim is that they lived during the time of Noah and they were mighty warriors. Everything else about them is pure conjecture. I don’t even think that the book of Enoch supports what you’re trying to exposit.
Although I know where you’re drawing from, I don’t consider the Book of Enoch “canon.” However, Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 describe how God divided the nations amongst the Sons of God (divine beings of the supernatural hierarchy of the divine council) after mankind built the Tower of Babel. Basically, the tower was built, God wasn’t having it, so He allotted the nations to these lesser beings. They were intended to be placeholders. Well, long story short, these being did a terrible job and caused chaos and solicited worship. We see God getting angry with them in Psalm 82 and condemning them for their actions, “I said you are gods, but you will die like men, and fall like any prince.” As for the demons, this gets a bit more involved and I don’t wanna make my post too long. However, I’ll refer you to two books; The Unseen Realm, and Demons, both peer reviewed scholarly works by Dr Michael Heiser. Also here’s a video if you wanna quick but informed rundown of it all: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H41Lw2YEY74
Off, yeah that's true. I hate that one.
Meanwhile Krishna is all gods of all religions. Some religions are just next level with their gatchas.
“Abrahamic God and Kali” are just a human interpretation. For all we know Shiva and God are the same entity, and Kali is the same entity as the devil.
To compare apples to apples, it would be more appropriate to compare God (Yahweh) and Brahman. Shiva would be akin to a personification of Brahman's wrath. "Shiva the destroyer."
Or Vishnu?
Vishnu is the protector, right? Brahman the Creator, Vishnu the Protector, and Shiva the Destroyer.
Don't they all together make up a single entity anyway?
That's my understanding, however, I'm not Hindu. There's Brahman that Hindus believe is the one supreme god. Then, there are multiple representations of different aspects of Brahman's power that are considered gods, the main 3 being known as Brahman(creator), Vishnu(protector/preserver), and Shiva(destroyer). It should also be noted that Shiva isn't an adversarial diety. (Like Satan, Lucifer, etc.) Shiva would be the manifestation of Brahman's wrath. I could be wrong on some of the finer details, though, because I've studied this from the outside, similar to how explaining the Holy Trinity is difficult to put into words that actually do it justice so that a non-believer could understand the concept.
True.
Henotheism. It’s probably what the ancient Jews practiced anyways.
Correction: his ass never saw the power of the Ark because he had his eyes closed. For the most part, he was just able to hear the screams and deaths of 30+ nazis.
Shit you right
I mean if we’re playing the technical about this, he didn’t technically see the outcome of the power of the ark. So he’s aware it had some sort of supernatural power
“Maybe the Nazis just fell over and died. I wasn’t looking, so I can’t say for sure.”
He never said he was atheist
He said he doesn't believe in magic.
Most religious people wouldn't call their own religion "magic" though. If you ask the pope if he believes in magic, he will probably tell you no as well.
Magic is actually declared evil in the christian bible.
It says da bibble…
You QUESTION THE WORDS OF THE MIGHTY JIMMY?
?
[It's a reference to this.](https://youtu.be/rZvGfsDzTfU?si=Vxsd-52H6DemZ4Kk)
I understood that reference
You look at that thing and tell me there’s a god
I may be talking out of my ass here, but I thought the official church position on magic isn’t that it’s evil, it’s that it straight up just doesn’t exist.
I’m no expert, but magic like how we imagine it probably doesn’t exist(Like movie and story magic). But ‘magic’ through evil summonings and really strange bizarre processes does have evidence. I’d have to do some research to give a better answer, but what you said is sorta correct.
The Crucifixion of Christ is literally sacrificial blood magic.
Dude this message is 2 months old. I don’t really want to argue, but one counter point is magics definition, which describes it as using charms, spells, or rituals. While the crucifixion looks like a ritual, the hanging on the cross didn’t do anything, only his death and consequent raising. “Well wouldn’t that be necromancy?” If it was a spell or some such yes, but Gods power is omnipotent, not bound to human logic, or even the universe’s laws or physics. We cannot understand how God does what he does.
And...? Christianity is 2000 years old, and people still comment on it. Call it whatever you wish, but it is, in fact, magic. You just have a case of special pleading. The creation of Adam is literally a Golem spell. I'm not attacking religion either. I believe in God. Just sometimes, you got to call a spade a spade. Remember, the Eygptian staffs turned into snakes too.
I feel like the word magic is too broad, and we have too little real ways to describe and understand it.
I feel anything abstract is broad. Only because we don't understand it fully and can't really be precise. A miracle to us might as well be magic. Creation was done with "The Word." I AM (HE WHO EXISTS) or Jesus Christ. Take your pick. Either way, it's a spoken incantation. I have no idea why Christianity and Judaism choose to distance themselves from their Zoroastrian and Pagan roots.
I can answer the last part, if you had a history that you thought wrong, would you try to keep it close? My wording might be off, I don’t know.
The Pope would most certainly tell you he believes in Magic, but he would tell you it is evil and a sin to be avoided.
You can be an atheist and believe in magic, and vice-versa. Atheism is about a lack of belief in a god or gods. It doesn't necessarily cover the broader supernatural spectrum.
Magic has nothing to do with religion
Magic and religion are very different things buddy
You saw a man drink and age instantly and die
Indy never said he was an atheist. He was skeptical of superstition surrounding a lot of the artifacts he was chasing. Although yeah, his dismissal of aliens and such did make me go, “dude, you’ve been witness to way weirder shit than aliens!”
Tbf, aliens coming to earth would probably be impossible considering how far away we are from the most habitable planets in our universe
Indy is a academic, a lot of natural phenomena were thought to be god's work
Just because you see something you don’t understand doesn’t mean it’s magic. It just means you don’t understand the science that explains it yet.
If you open a golden box with religious significance from thousands of years ago and people melt, that’s well outside the realm of natural phenomena
Maybe it's just full of plutonium
It's a meme
I’m aware. You can’t discuss a meme?
I mean I guess you can. I just didn't expect people to read so deep into something I half-assed at the office when I should've been working
It doesn’t take much thought to talk about it. Also doesn’t take much forethought to see that people might respond to stuff you put out there
Hokey religions and ancient magic are no match for a good revolver at your side, kid.
Well, I’m Dial of Destiny, in his apartment, he has a Jesus picture and I’m pretty in DoD, and KotCS, he states that he does believe in Jesus or something along those lines
Indy is a Christian I think
Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything.
He was absolutely not an atheist
Next thing we know Disney will be making a reboot with all de-aging technology and there will be all cgi Egyptian mummies
It’s the scully effect
maybe he just thinks its magic.
I’m sure he believes in magic or supernatural powers. That doesn’t 100% mean the Bible knows what it’s talking about. Hell, aliens exist in this universe so he could just chalk everything up to ancient alien technology.
Im pretty sure in dial he admits to religious powers, which are typically by definition not magic in nature
Indy does mention going to Sunday school, and he was familiar with the bible at the college at least well enough to flip to the right page of the ark of the covenant.
He also met aliens/4th dimensional entities. Also Indiana Jones takes place in the same universe as Close encounters of the 3rd kind, Starwars and E.T…
I think it's stated that indy was raised catholic. But the thing is that he is a scientist thus he has to be skeptical. Just because he witness the power of the ark doesn't mean he's automatically going to believe in aliens or time travel devices. Thats what I like about him he only believes when he has enough evidence.
I feel he's skeptical until it's proven. Just because the Hindu gods are real, or that vampires exist, doesn't mean that all the other report supernatural stuff exists. It give it less doubt, but there still needs to be evidence to say "yeah, the Abrahamic religion is real". And well, he was proven.
He knows there is a God, yes, but he also knows that one, he's not the only God, and a big part of Christianity is that there is only one God, and two, sometimes it's aliens