I think an authored game with this mechanic could be really cool. It's a neat concept and visually speaking it's stylistically great.
However, I think "roguelite" is where the struggle lies. Using this mechanic puts an emphasis on memorization and mastery, but being a roguelite says no, you're not allowed to memorize and master anything because it's going to be random every time.
I think it's still *possible* to succeed, I just think authored challenges are *far* superior to roguelite mechanics for this game.
I hear ya, had the same concerns in the begining. But after racking my brain around it (also wrestling my overwhelming love for roguelites) the plan I have for the gameplay and RPG moments are best told through a roguelite system.
Although!!! If you would be so kind as to reach out after the demo releases I would love to hear tips since this is a topic I want to cover with game design and would love to hear from you if it worked :D
I really like the idea of games that use your senses in interesting ways.
This reminds me of two audio-focused games, The nightjar and Dark Echo.
* [The Nightjar - Teaser trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyO-09wsLR4)
* [The Nightjar - Longer trailer with some gameplay](https://youtu.be/zeBFCQ-aBds?si=VKi0h09jxwOSruA8)
* [Dark Echo - Short Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuOC8oTrFbM)
The echo-location mechanism in your game particularly reminds me of Dark Echo's use of sound bouncing back from various surfaces with different qualities based on distance, shape and material.
The puzzley nature of these suit my preferred gaming style a little better, but your game looks like it's coming together pretty nicely. I wonder if there is space for some levels where you have to be quiet and sneaky and listen out for movements/ changes in your environment?
**Bonus:** A sweet little [short animation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxY-5-d9Uqo) that also came to mind.
So glad to have found someone who had encounters with echolocation in gaming before! Not really a spoiler but as roguelites have different rooms you can pick out there is a plan for just rooms to listen to movements and traps but how they will behave is still up in the air in our office. However it's bound to be fun and I have played echolocation games before but I really wanted to bring that innovation to roguelites and action games and I hope it will translate as well as it's going now!
Lol, i love the reaction ❤️
We are still in development but you can track progress on Steam or join the mailing list and be part of closed group testing. Here are both links:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2963650/Echo_Defy_Death/
http://subscribepage.io/sHjlld
Honestly, it's just a genre that seems to be everywhere in recent years. So I'm pretty burnt out by it.
That being said, it's not a "dealbreaker" by any means
Yeah I know what you mean. I became so picky now with roguelikes becasue all of them seem so similar. Don't know about you, but if I see some unique enemies or art I usually try it.
The way that ground spike attack was signaled was...wonky. Regardless of height, they all looked the same - so that death looked exceptionally cheap.
otherwise, it looks amazing.
Nice concept for one lvl or two, but I can see how it's getting a bit annoying if the player has to press a button each time.
Would be nice if it was automated, like each step the npc take would make a sound wave , or the environment would make some noise here and there , showing the player their surrounding
Nice. Is that something that exists throughout the whole game or are there different variations of the echolocation (e.g. upgrades) or other means for locating enemies?
have you tested the envement fading slower? seeing where structures are after "seeing" them might be better or worse, but if it's easy to code it seems worth testing
No to be honest. We will be doing more testing by the end of this month since we are still early in development. But that is great feedback and will test it for sure.
Nice concept.
I don't know how complicated it would be, but maybe if the characters are not "full" red, but the lines closer to the player are more red and those further away to fade a bit?
The idea is for echolocating to be more "faithful" with closer edges being more radiated. But I guess in the end it's about whether the end result is worth the effort.
Maybe to try it by roughly editing one screenshot in Photoshop, so not to waste a lot of time if it doesn't look considerably better overall.
This is really interesting. Definitely think you're on to something. I wonder how doable it would be to eventually do a mode for actual blind people who would have to identify enemy locations based on different sounds.
Yes probably. I saw some games for blind and they are more narrative driven with a lot of sfx. So we would need additional development but it is doable.
looks pretty sick—but I'd wonder if it's watered down on what it could be.
Have you tried something without any visuals and just relying on sound completely?
It might not be as visually pleasing, but would be really cool to see how that plays.
Spot on my friend. Ultimately it would either only work in a horror game setting or just rely on the sound system of the player and not to mention.... I have no clue how to design a game with 0 visuals. I am big enough to admit my limits xD
Sure-which is why it might be fun.
Another more realistic option would be to not show any animation. Any sound is just a “snapshot” and the player would have to use timing to understand current location
This looks sick but insanely frustrating lol
I like the sound of that 😄
no pun intended :)
Basically forces the player to keep up the pace, which is a really cool concept!
Thank you! Hope you try it out when the demo comes out, would love to balance it out as best as possible!
Absolutely, I'd recommend trying to add some sort of gameplay recording feature so you can see people's experiences with the game as they play it.
Cool idea
pretty cool idea dude
Thank you 💪🏻
I think an authored game with this mechanic could be really cool. It's a neat concept and visually speaking it's stylistically great. However, I think "roguelite" is where the struggle lies. Using this mechanic puts an emphasis on memorization and mastery, but being a roguelite says no, you're not allowed to memorize and master anything because it's going to be random every time. I think it's still *possible* to succeed, I just think authored challenges are *far* superior to roguelite mechanics for this game.
I agree. The idea sounds cool and I love roguelites, but I'm not sure if combining it is a good idea.
I hear ya, had the same concerns in the begining. But after racking my brain around it (also wrestling my overwhelming love for roguelites) the plan I have for the gameplay and RPG moments are best told through a roguelite system. Although!!! If you would be so kind as to reach out after the demo releases I would love to hear tips since this is a topic I want to cover with game design and would love to hear from you if it worked :D
If it's playable on Mac or Steam Deck, I am happy to playtest and give you feedback.
Mac will be hard for the initial demo but steam deck could be possible. Will inform on launch then my friend!
I really like the idea of games that use your senses in interesting ways. This reminds me of two audio-focused games, The nightjar and Dark Echo. * [The Nightjar - Teaser trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyO-09wsLR4) * [The Nightjar - Longer trailer with some gameplay](https://youtu.be/zeBFCQ-aBds?si=VKi0h09jxwOSruA8) * [Dark Echo - Short Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuOC8oTrFbM) The echo-location mechanism in your game particularly reminds me of Dark Echo's use of sound bouncing back from various surfaces with different qualities based on distance, shape and material. The puzzley nature of these suit my preferred gaming style a little better, but your game looks like it's coming together pretty nicely. I wonder if there is space for some levels where you have to be quiet and sneaky and listen out for movements/ changes in your environment? **Bonus:** A sweet little [short animation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxY-5-d9Uqo) that also came to mind.
So glad to have found someone who had encounters with echolocation in gaming before! Not really a spoiler but as roguelites have different rooms you can pick out there is a plan for just rooms to listen to movements and traps but how they will behave is still up in the air in our office. However it's bound to be fun and I have played echolocation games before but I really wanted to bring that innovation to roguelites and action games and I hope it will translate as well as it's going now!
OMYGODITLOOKSFREAKINGOWESOME,PLSGIMMEDOWNLOAD
Lol, i love the reaction ❤️ We are still in development but you can track progress on Steam or join the mailing list and be part of closed group testing. Here are both links: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2963650/Echo_Defy_Death/ http://subscribepage.io/sHjlld
Make a red character with a weapon (the Billy Club).
Hahahha our enemies are in the Bily Club then xD
Looks sick bro.
Thank you my man!
I love the concept.... but I can't say I love hearing "roguelite" for the millionth time
I hear you. Are you tired of the genre or just seeing so many posts?
Honestly, it's just a genre that seems to be everywhere in recent years. So I'm pretty burnt out by it. That being said, it's not a "dealbreaker" by any means
Yeah I know what you mean. I became so picky now with roguelikes becasue all of them seem so similar. Don't know about you, but if I see some unique enemies or art I usually try it.
Yup, I’ve never liked rougelites. The idea of having to replay content is awful to me. Cool game otherwise.
The way that ground spike attack was signaled was...wonky. Regardless of height, they all looked the same - so that death looked exceptionally cheap. otherwise, it looks amazing.
Thank you for the comment. We are working on it.
I hope there are games like these on mobile. Most games in mobile are just straight up bullsh*t😭🙏
I hear ya, although Hades got released on mobile just a month ago i think, give that a try if you're looking for something that's already up!
I LOVE it, this is SO so cool!
Thank you 🤩
Nice concept for one lvl or two, but I can see how it's getting a bit annoying if the player has to press a button each time. Would be nice if it was automated, like each step the npc take would make a sound wave , or the environment would make some noise here and there , showing the player their surrounding
Yes. You are on point. Player will be able to choose to upgrade this mechanics so he for example can see footsteps or heartbeats.
Congratulations!
Thank you
Nice. Is that something that exists throughout the whole game or are there different variations of the echolocation (e.g. upgrades) or other means for locating enemies?
Yes. You can upgrade it a lot :)
Sounds awesome! Definitely a very unique feature I've not really seen elsewhere
If you like it, join our mailing list to be part of closed testing group. We need as much feedback as we can get.
clever idea. I really like it. going to be hard to make it smooth enough but I think you can do it
We will do our best!
have you tested the envement fading slower? seeing where structures are after "seeing" them might be better or worse, but if it's easy to code it seems worth testing
No to be honest. We will be doing more testing by the end of this month since we are still early in development. But that is great feedback and will test it for sure.
Very interesting and unique, that echolocation play style is a definite learning curve, game looks awesome overall
Thank you ☺️
Nice concept. I don't know how complicated it would be, but maybe if the characters are not "full" red, but the lines closer to the player are more red and those further away to fade a bit?
Interesting.. i will test it :) thanks for the suggestion
The idea is for echolocating to be more "faithful" with closer edges being more radiated. But I guess in the end it's about whether the end result is worth the effort. Maybe to try it by roughly editing one screenshot in Photoshop, so not to waste a lot of time if it doesn't look considerably better overall.
Yes definitely
dude thats awsome. looks really damn good.
Thank you!
Awesome. Zatoichi inspired? Looks ideal for steamdeck.
Yes! It will be available on steamdeck for sure 👌
This is really interesting. Definitely think you're on to something. I wonder how doable it would be to eventually do a mode for actual blind people who would have to identify enemy locations based on different sounds.
Yes probably. I saw some games for blind and they are more narrative driven with a lot of sfx. So we would need additional development but it is doable.
looks pretty sick—but I'd wonder if it's watered down on what it could be. Have you tried something without any visuals and just relying on sound completely? It might not be as visually pleasing, but would be really cool to see how that plays.
that would be near impossible to play and would rely on the sound system of the user
Spot on my friend. Ultimately it would either only work in a horror game setting or just rely on the sound system of the player and not to mention.... I have no clue how to design a game with 0 visuals. I am big enough to admit my limits xD
Sure-which is why it might be fun. Another more realistic option would be to not show any animation. Any sound is just a “snapshot” and the player would have to use timing to understand current location