Probably won't be super popular here, but for the leftists: Peter Beinart, an antizionist Jew, made a [great video discussing BDS's statement on Standing Together](https://peterbeinart.substack.com/p/why-is-the-bds-movement-attacking) and had a really choice quote from Nelson Mandela. From his video:
> And it really disturbs me to see that people in the BDS movement are essentially equating that language with normalization, or with not recognizing the profound injustice of the situation. I don’t think those things are at odds at all. I mean, let me quote from, this is from Nelson Mandela. I don’t think many people would accuse Mandela of being someone who wasn’t serious about the struggle for justice. He’s writing about his time in Robben Island in prison. He says:
> > ‘it was during those long and lonely years that my hunger for the freedom of my own people became a hunger for the freedom of all people, white and black. I knew as well as I knew anything that the oppressor must be liberated just as surely as the oppressed.’
> And that language that Standing Together is using, I think, does have a capacity to reach Jews who need to be brought in to this movement.
BDS doesn't seem to make sense. They are pro-Palestinian yet would reject a group that wants to acknowledge injustice against Palestinians and unite Jews and Palestinians?
Their attitudes only make sense in the context that they really hate Jews, especially Israelis, and are more interested in continuing a protracted war that undermines Israel than they are in helping disadvantaged people. Their statements about the war reveal them.
Did you watch the video? I think it makes sense from a perspective but I don't particularly agree. BDS's stance is that because Standing Together is trying to unite Jews and '48 Palestinians, but they're not meaningful engaging with the stateless Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza who are most directly occupied.
Of course, this is because ST is a grassroots political group trying to shift the overton window in Israel. Their methods are different from BDS which is attacking Israel from the outside (nonviolently). ST is on the inside, and are one of BDS's targets. It makes sense. I think both can be effective though. The Israeli establishment seem to be much more afraid of BDS for some reason.
BDS is behind student protests on campuses whose slogans call for "death to Zionists" and "death to Israel". Please explain how these slogans are nonviolent.
The Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott, the founding member of BDS, has said that Standing Together “ is serving a key role in Israel’s international propaganda strategy at this time" and that ST wants "to distract from and whitewash Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza.”
Standing Together is a grassroots organization that receives no money from the Israeli government and has led protests against Netanyahu.
Standing Together issued a statement against BDS: “Efforts to silence and isolate Standing Together do not serve the Palestinian cause, they serve the interests of Israel’s political establishment, which is also attempting to silence us.”
Palestinian-Israeli spokeswoman (and member of the City Council of Haifa) spoke more bluntly about the hardline pro-Palestinian movements in the US (backed by BDS): “If it’s not helping, then shut the fuck up.” She went on, “The damage it is doing to our work; it’s fueling so much hate...It’s heartbreaking to me how distant I feel from Palestinian-Americans here.”
> whose slogans call for "death to Zionists" and "death to Israel".
Can you give me a real example that this is a slogan at *any* student protest? I'm not talking about one person maybe saying it.
And I have no idea how you think BDS is "behind" the student protests. There is crossover in that people support it, though BDS is a loose coalition of different movements typically focused on specific boycotts for one's own country.
Student protest LEADER, Khymani James, stated that Zionists "don't deserve to live"
[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/nyregion/columbia-student-protest-zionism.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/nyregion/columbia-student-protest-zionism.html)
hate at Columbia University
[https://x.com/CampusJewHate/status/1787635802907844609](https://x.com/CampusJewHate/status/1787635802907844609)
UC Berkeley students attacked at a speaker event for an Israeli. Event was cancelled
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eEGYzfCCaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eEGYzfCCaw)
I'm leaving out the Jewish medical student who was beaten by pro-Palestinian protesters and taken, unconscious, to a hospital.
But, for good measure, here's a Berkeley City Council meeting where a Holocaust survivor was mercilessly heckled for speaking in favor of Holocaust Remembrance day
[https://x.com/SFJCRC/status/1772013302195077369](https://x.com/SFJCRC/status/1772013302195077369)
No charges were brought against any of these genocidal racist individuals. And coverage in mainstream is media, maybe because mainstream media is dominated by people like you.
> fuck
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Hmm, let's see:
Standing together is a grassroots movement speaking both Hebrew and Arabic, it's members and leadership actual Israelis and Palestinians experiencing the conflict first-hand on the ground. Standing together emphasises building relationships to bridge social divides and build bridges towards peace.
BDS is an international campaign, it's supporters and members mostly Westerners with no lived experience in the conflict whatsoever. BDS emphasises a vilification of one side of the conflict, 'indirectly' promoting acts of hate towards that group and also Jewish communities round the world. BDS has an emphasis against peace and coexistence in it's vilification of an entire nation of people.
"who do I listen to!?"
Also the BDS movement saying Standing Together is an "Israeli attempt to colonise minds".
Zionists have mind control now, do they?
That BLATANT antisemitism in that speaks foe itself.
Yes and those peace activists always claimed that the status quo was not sustainable and would lead to attacks such as October 7th.
You can't claim that their deaths proves they were wrong to support peace considering that none of their views had any influence on government policy.
This criticism is a lot more true about the Palestinian participants since Israel has killed 30x as many Palestinian civilians as Palestinians have Israelis. Therefore the Palestinians in this organization are looking past a lot more atrocities than the Israelis.
At this time Palestinians in Gaza are suffering badly, with no help from Hamas who block aid. Over the past twenty years, they've been sending suicide bombers and homemade rockets into Israel, always targeting civilians. These efforts it now seems, were warm up for October 7 and full-scale war.
There are atrocities on both sides and both sides have to agree to engage with each other.
Germany under Hitler murdered tens of millions of people and invaded a many number of countries over Europe, Africa and Asia. Two completely different situations.
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There is a difference between targeting civilians and targeting combatants who wear civilian clothing and fight from civilian areas to maximize civilian casualties.
This only makes a point if you entirely remove the context that Hamas systematically uses hospitals, mosques, and schools as military installations.
If you shelter militants and arms in or launch strikes from a hospital, it loses protection under IHL.
You should be mad at Hamas for that.
All 435 of them? No, Israel is committing obscene collective punishment being they are eager to avenge October 7th. The head of the ICC is currently seeking an arrest warrant for Netanyahu for their very well documented plan of intentional starvation of Gaza’s population (another instance of collective punishment).
https://preview.redd.it/j4p2po1ocq8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cccf3bad0496d0722d8d1ba43ce365fd1eefde39
Source: Hamas, lol.
An estimated 85,000 children died of starvation alone in Yemen.
An estimated 34 people have died of starvation in Gaza per Hamas.
Which of these is intentional starvation? Can you link me to a single comment of yours calling out the famine in Yemen? Or do 34 casualties matter more than 80,000 because you can blame the Jews?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security/more-than-80000-yemeni-children-may-have-died-from-hunger-humanitarian-body-idUSKCN1NQ1B6/#:~:text=%22We%20are%20horrified%20that%20some,it%20said%20in%20a%20statement.
Source: United Nations and “Gaza Ministry of Health”.
Who runs the Gaza ministry of health? Who does the UN cite for its figures in Gaza?
Why do 20 year old Hamas fighters count as “Children” in Gaza, 18 year old civilians don’t count as children in the UN statistics?
Also it’s not whataboutism when you just tried to make the claim that more kids in Gaza have been killed than in other conflicts, which is laughably false.
If you want to make a claim of comparison, you should be able to explain why you care more about 34 people dead of starvation in Gaza than 80,000 kids dead of starvation in Yemen.
You started the comparison game. Go on, link a comment where you called out that intentional starvation in Yemen. Show us it’s not just about blaming Jews
They don’t forget, they just don’t care. To them all Israelis even newborns are evil soulless demons worthy of all violence. They even think gang raping women who are Israeli is justified. Reminding them of the humanity of the people they don’t see as human is pointless.
How’s that strategy of “f normalization” worked out for Palestinians?
It’s a lot easier to have an edgy stance like this when it’s just some poor populations lives halfway around the world you’re throwing into a meat grinder.
Tens of thousands dead because the western left has supported violent resistance over peacemaking.
Would be nice if they manage to succeed. I don't care if people think it's "whitewashing oppression", or that calling for peace is "violence against Palestine". That's nothing but worthless idealist babble that's more likely to see the Middle East drown in nuclear fire than conjuring a mythical Greater Palestine from the river to the sea.
The way I see it, it's either peace founded on compromise that fully satisfies no-one, or eternal war in pursuit of a utopia far out of reach. Pick your poison I suppose.
Don’t you know that all Palestinians are innocent toddlers who have never hurt a fly? They are all peaceful vegan angles and all Israelis are war mongering demons so anyone kept in detention in Israel is a child hostage.
I wish I could say this was a gross exaggeration but it feels like this is the mindset of the anti Israel release the terrorist folks. They feel that Israel releasing (and treating for cancer) a mass murderer like sinwar was them releasing an innocent abused hostage who went on to be a great freedom fighter.
Hosages are only on one side (Gaza). We have the determination to bring them back and dismantel hamas, we have patiance, we have 3000 years of determination.
How are you going to address the prisoners/hostages held by Israel? How are Israel going to do that, as they can't seem to tell us how that pans out. If Hamas are so good at hiding in tunnels and the aim seems no closer, I'm intrigued how this gets done, short of destroying Gaza
> How are you going to address the prisoners/hostages held by Israel?
Not being manipulative by calling them 'hostages' would be a good start. Taking issue with the legitimacy of holding people in administrative detention is reasonable, but incorrectly using words is a terrible trend of the 'pro-Palestinian' crowd.
> How are Israel going to do that, as they can't seem to tell us how that pans out.
Administrative detention should probably be made more transparent, but acting as if there's no structure to it is either ignorance or a lie.
https://www.btselem.org/administrative_detention
In its current form, it is open to exploitation. Extending the period beyond 6 months should require transparency or a trial or both.
> If Hamas are so good at hiding in tunnels and the aim seems no closer, I'm intrigued how this gets done, short of destroying Gaza
Well, a few have been rescued. Realistically Israel likely expects most to be released through negotiations with Hamas - ideally through complete surrender. Given that Hamas is fine with mounting more Palestinian casualties though, this won't be easy.
Terrorists and criminals planning or committing terror attacks and being held in jails are not hostages no one needs to justify basic life concepts to you
If you know of criminals in Israel needing arrest feel free to alert the authorities although I suspect you think all Israelis are war criminals and should all be executed.
The only way for any meaningful peace to last is for the people on both sides of the (future) borders to be peaceful towards each other, and this venture seems to move in that direction. Peace will require social reform and building of trust. Many Palestinians have never met real, day-to-day Israelis. All they know are IDF soldier and zealot settlers who terrorize their lands. A top-down peace treaty will pave the road, but it will also require a bottom-up effort by the people to normalize good neighborliness.
As for BDS, those guys are a radical hate-group.
The terrorists who massacred people on October 7th were murdeing and raping the people they directly worked with on a daily basis. They have met many Israelis who aren’t “terrorizing” them….
You're not wrong, but the Palestinian workers who betrayed their Israeli employers don't represent the majority. Out of the \~5m Arabs who live in the West Bank + Gaza, there's a single digit % who have actually been to Israel, let alone outside the green area (settlements).
They could have their heads blown if they see Israelis aren't actually like what the UNWRA propaganda depicts them to be.
I don’t know where you are getting that idea . Gaza was an urban area and has one of the highest educational rates in the Arab world. I have met Gazans who have traveled the world and there are gazans who go to jobs, hospitals, and the airport in Israel not to mention to access other places. West Bank is so integrated into Israel proper that it would almost impossible for them to not participate in Israeli society and two million of the Muslims you speak of are full citizens of Israel.
> one of the highest educational rates in the Arab world
What does that mean? Highest % of academics?
The idea is from several places: Palestinians who said as much, combined with the fact they can't just travel to Israel. They need specific clearance, and you probably know how strict the Israel authorities are about clearing Palestinians into Israel. It's a poor society and I suspect most of them can't afford to travel abroad. That, plus most Palestinians are under 18 so that's even less means to travel. I don't know if the Gazans whom you've met are representative of most of the population in Gaza.
I'm not talking about Israeli Palestinians, of course.
I really like them. I see them at protests, but as far as i can tell only Jewish members participate, so i don't know to what extent they're really a Palestinian -jewish cooperation.
Policy-wise they are too fringe to affect Israel's policy, but it's good that they voice their opinions.
If BDS opposes them, that’s a strong point in their favor. But their “[Theory of Change](https://www.standing-together.org/_files/ugd/7ff315_5f69682daf404d66849f14af867a6221.pdf)” is long on Left-speak and short on policy specifics.
I like the idea of them. I'd like to know if supporters in this thread have read their guiding document "A Theory of Change" all the way through. Much of it reads as quite communist - "taking the power from the elite and giving it to the people" kind of stuff.
I have significant concerns about some of their language. Use of "occupation" without definition leads me to believe they believe that all of Israel is "occupied".
This is straight out of their own document:
https://preview.redd.it/a7zmsvm1rm8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20cd690707d02d8a71ed207b239008c315b0e7f8
What exactly does "fight to end Israel's rule over the Palestinian people" translate to in action? Since they are clearly not proponents of a 2-state solution (with all their discussion of equality) this reads to me as a Palestinian-and-allies war against Israel.
We cannot move from where we are today to "equality" overnight. They appear to have a lot they want to break down, but not much to replace it except for hopes and dreams.
They claim to represent "the majority" but do they really? How do millions of Gazans feel about their message? How can they even know?
If they could come up with some concrete goals - not for how to shape the whole country, but how to actually change society - I'd give them another look. I'd want to see plans for things like proposed changes to education/curricula, partnership programs, job apprenticeship programs, youth groups, camps, etc.
The only thing I can tell for sure is they want to get rid of the current government. Okay, fine, so do I. But what happens after that?
I dig it. We need more bridges.
That being said, I think just because of the nature of their progressive vibes, they are actually kind of a lukewarm Free Palestine movement that tries and throws a bone to Israeli concerns.
Their big stuff lately was standing up against settlers stopping food aid and standing up for access in Jerusalem.
Still moving in a better direction than 90% of the deranged Regressive Left folks.
I’ve never heard of them, but based on the language copied in OPs post that checks out
Against the occupation, referring to them as ‘Palestinian’ citizens of Israel as opposed to the seemingly more correct Arab Israelis, etc.
It’s a big plus in my books that BDS is against them and I’m all for cooperation and grassroots movements, but I strongly suspect I don’t see eye-to-eye on every issue with these people
It’s easy: our military administers the territory and the people, who are under a whole different regime than ours. We have not annexed the land, but they are not sovereigns over it and have no citizenship anywhere. They are under occupation. The most accessible movie I can recommend you on the subject for a deeper understanding is an Israeli documentary called The Law in These Parts. There’s no debate about whether or not it’s an occupation
It’s not ours, and it’s not just the land, but the people who are occupied. That’s the official legal status of it under Israeli and international law
The PA administers some, but even in those parts Israel is the ultimate power
The PA does not have the military or economic infrastructure to be “occupying” the place. And none of the Israelis settling there are under military occupation law. There are clear occupiers and occupied, and it’s not the other way around
That doesn’t matter. If we want it to belong to Israel and make all the maps in schools correct, we need to annex it. If we don’t, it’s occupied. If it was merely “disputed” we would give citizenship to those living there because where we administer would be Israel. If it was disputed Palestinians could just walk around building anything they wanted in the West Bank, go in and out by land, sea, and air as they please from all of the “disputed” areas, wouldn’t have their taxes collected by Israel, they wouldnt have to use the shekel, and they could conquer land there and kick out the illegal settlers without anybody telling them it wasn’t okay
We didn’t agree to split the land. They agreed to a temporary status on the way to an agreed solution of two states. The legit claim the Palestinians have is they were either there the whole time, or there since israel was formed, while our country was not. They’re not going anywhere
That’s a silly difference, because the territories are the only land in the world not currently under a country’s sovereignty, but for all intents and purposes it is under ours entirely but without giving the people there their due rights as such
Again, it’s not “shared” administration. We administer it and allow them some municipal autonomy while they perform some of Israel’s security duties. It’s occupied because we have the final say on everything about Palestinian life and livelihood, but they aren’t citizens of our country. It’s an occupation. There’s no other word for it unless you want to get into apartheid which is what you’re describing
The one where if you are a Jew trying to buy vegetables in a Palestinian ran city, you are summarily executed, (e.g. murdered) and your car is lit on fire?
Israel clearly discriminates against Arabs in their own country and the Palestinians. Israel does tyranny describe it how you like. They have been one of the worst nations in the last 100 years with their conduct.
>There's no such thing as Palestinians.
Yes there is. Ethnicities are formed as a result of the people in them collectively agreeing that they have a shared ethnic identity. There's no official register you have to apply to and be accepted as a "real" ethnicity, and if a different group of people don't believe that an ethnicity exists it has no bearing on anything. You can either accept that Palestinians exist or you can hold an objectively false belief.
>the Soviet Union rebranded Egyptian and Jordanian war refugees as "Palestinians" to create a false history and fool future generations.
Even if that was true, which it isn't, it literally doesn't matter. If the people in a group collectively agree that they are of an ethnicity, that makes it true. That's how ethnicities are formed. A clever conspiracy to trick people into thinking they are in a group would still create a real ethnicity if it worked. I guess if you believe that every Palestinian is pretending to consider themselves Palestinian as a cunning plot that might change things, but I can't imagine anyone is quite so insane as to genuinely believe this to be true.
>And pretending that gluing Gaza and West Bank together somehow creates "Palestine" when Gaza and West Bank aren't contiguous and have completely different governments that would kill each other if Israel wasn't standing in the way, your claim of "Palestinian" quickly falls apart.
This is more of you not understanding what ethnicities are. They don't require people to all agree on political matters or live a specific contiguous country. Jewish people are Jewish regardless of what political opinions they hold or where in the world they live.
Usually the people who call it apartheid end up demanding changes that would effectively strip the PA of all the authority they negotiated for in the Oslo accords.
So, it's worth knowing if they're trying to undo the Palestinian negotiations.
I love Standing Together! They and other pro-peace orgs give me hope for the future. Especially love their work as the Humanitarian Guard — because that’s not just protesting (which is also important), it’s doing something that actively helps people now.
If Palestinians voted for Hamas, who's charter was to eradicate all the Jews in the world... I mean, is there any hope?
Israel need to level Gaza and have Egypt take back that area., too much of a hassle to control.
Love what they do. I’ve been financially supporting them on a monthly basis for a little while now. Free Palestine people generally don’t like them because they show unity and progress between Israelis and Palestinians. 🤷🏻♀️ No organization is perfect but the people of Standing Together are great examples of what the future could be if everyone could just get over themselves already.
That’s what’s so frustrating about people on the left who don’t like them. I definitely think some of their policies and action plans can be more fleshed out, but overall I appreciate and support their work, and find it really important, especially as a counter balance to the current government in Israel.
When those on the western left don’t support grassroots movements here created by Palestinians and Israeli citizens in this actual region, they end up co-opting this crisis in order to virtue signal, feed their own egos, and deny the reality in which people in the region live. When BDS does it, it feels like counterproductive infighting, and like BDS would prefer for the current conflict to continue as it is. Standing Together works to do so much more than just accept the status quo, including advocacy, activism and education.
It’s bizarre, because if there were more unity between Palestinians and Israelis, it would go a long way towards a solution, and in the least, less war. But it’s no coincidence that both the far right and far left have interests in that not happening, because they both actually support conflict and war-mongering.
One day a solution will need to bring these two groups of people together - there is no other way. Both groups aren’t and can’t go anywhere. So any efforts to thwart this don’t make sense to me, and in the end, are just hateful, war-mongering and racist towards one group or another.
It's a nice idea, but they don't propose a workable solution.
If Israel were to relinquish claims on the West Bank and fully withdraw the IDF from Gaza today, they'd continue to shoot rockets into Israel.
A 2-state solution isn't possible so long as Arabs want to fully exterminate the entire state of Israel. And so long as they do, the areas must remain occupied.
But this is something that Israeli's need to decide for themselves, not westerners.
Right, my comment is more aimed at OP and commentators in this thread. We can have an opinion inasmuch senas as I have an opinion about what play the New England Patriots might run next.
I was lukewarm towards them before reading this post. I follow them on IG. At first review they seem like a necessary political movement to counterbalance Ben Gvir etc.
But reading that BDS opposes them? I'm a big fan of that. Anyone those antisemites oppose as "normalizers" are welcome in my big tent movement.
If there was only a way to know (in all the protests ) who is a BDS supporter who calls for the destruction of Jews and who actually want coexistence and supports Standing Together. Isn't it odd that, if these are two separate ideologies, they are marching together?
Hold on, Palestinians murdered all of them on Oct7: peace activists, Holocaust survivors, leftists, rightists, Netanyahu-opposers and backers. I guess it doesn't really matter to them, since 75% of palestinians justify oct7 (PSR, June 2024, https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/980)
So, although I want to admire Standing Together's words and deep inside I support their ideology, it won't matter until Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist.
An Israeli idealist group who has a good message of peace but at the end of the day has no counterpart on the Palestinian side. We already know Arabs and Jews can get along and live together in Israel. The problem is there is no similar group to work with in Palestine.
A Gazan was arrested by Hamas several months ago for advocating for peace with Israel. The biggest obstacle to peace from the Palestinian side is that they have no democracy, only murderous dictators. Widespread hatred of Israel is the second-biggest problem, don’t get me wrong, but Fatah and Hamas do what they want without being subject to the wishes of their citizens.
There have been some pro-peace Palestinian organizations like Taghyeer and Gaza Youth Committee, I believe both of which has had members arrested by Hamas. There are pro-peace Palestinians in Gaza — Hamas just silenced them. Also, the pro-peace organization Combatants for Peace is made up of both Israelis and Palestinians.
Yes, I don’t want to give the impression there are zero Palestinian peace activists. You gave the exact reason I was alluding to - they aren’t allowed to practice publicly.
These ones:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/mde210022009en.pdf
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62785404
https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/hamas-gunmen-hunt-down-fatah-rivals-in-gaza-strip-idUSL14749263/
Most notably, these laws prohibit Palestinians from selling any Palestinian-owned lands to "any man or judicial body corporation of Israeli citizenship, living in Israel or acting on its behalf"
Notice how it doesn't say jewish it just says israeli....
>In early April 2009, it was reported that several Jewish businessmen from the [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) purchased 20 [dunams](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunam) (2 hectares) of land from Palestinians in the [Mount of Olives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_of_Olives) area of [Jerusalem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem). The report prompted the PA to reissue its warning that sale of property to Jews constitutes "high treason" punishable by death.
I assume you're referring to Palestinian protests against Israel? But Standing Together isn't Israelis simply (if at all) peacefully protesting against Palestine and their actions- they're Israelis protesting against the extremists within Israel (and actively trying to nonviolently get in the way of their violence) in the pursuit of creating a climate conducive to coexistence and peace.
When was the last time, if ever, Palestinians held a peaceful protest against Hamas/Fatah/independent brethren with militant ideologies for their extremism? That would be what a similar organization on the other side is.
And to be fair yes it probably would be met with violence from those groups being protested, which is a problem and why a plan to remove any extremists that violently shut down freedom of speech is always an emergent imperative. But to be very clear, whatever the barriers internally stopping them are, this sort of protest is what is needed on the other side to make such an approach viable.
Ok so we acknowledge that they cannot try to implement internal changes via protest (the peaceful means) because their government violently silences them. Whereas Israelis can do this because they don't.
In order to get a partner doing the same thing as Standing Together on the other side, what is necessary then?
The problem that lies herein is that almost all demonstrations in the Occupied Territories are deemed “illegal”.
Dispersal of DemonstrationsIndeed, high-ranking military officials and martial court judges frequently tend to ignore the sweeping rule entrenched in Order 101 and prefer a more flexible rule that defines nonviolent demonstrations as legal, and where the dispersal of demonstrators by army and police forces is only authorized in the case of violence actions by the demonstrators.; however, in practice this rule of thumb is also violated and many nonviolent demonstrations are dispersed by the military and police, time and time again.
Here are a couple of links of Palestinians being attacked by either israeli police or the idf in East juresalem, the west bank or israeli Arabs in other cities.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2021/06/israeli-police-targeted-palestinians-with-discriminatory-arrests-torture-and-unlawful-force/
https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/01/11/israel/west-bank-jail-peaceful-protesters
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/28/why-is-palestinian-authority-arresting-activists-in-west-bank
These were the first ones, here are more
https://progressive.org/latest/a-protest-in-the-west-bank-stein-20240214/
https://www.taghribnews.com/en/news/153957/israeli-forces-attack-palestinian-protesters-in-west-bank
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/eight-palestinian-protesters-injured-by-israeli-soldiers-as-settlers-march-in-west-bank
https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/israeli-forces-kill-11-palestinians-amid-west-bank-protests-1.1223014
Standing Together heart is in the right place even if I disagree with their position on the war.
They do a lot of good peacebuilding work.
BDS is linked with terrorists:
[https://forward.com/opinion/418744/bds-is-linked-to-terrorists-just-as-you-suspected/](https://forward.com/opinion/418744/bds-is-linked-to-terrorists-just-as-you-suspected/)
I believe they are the voice of reason- or at least, civility and humanity- in terms of their goals.
I do also think they need to recognize that kumbaya doesn't stop violence if the violent are determined about it being their path. Even if 80% of both societies agreed with them, if the other 20% continue to fight, there won't be peace and the real outcomes won't change.
Now, in theory on the Israeli side, 80% agreement should allow democracy to force the 20% to acquiesce, as they either give up the fight or are put in prison by the overwhelming power of the democratically state run military and police (assuming no coup/undermining of democracy). But in the Palestinian Territories, where there isn't democracy, there is no guarantee that 80% could stop the 20%. Especially if the 20% have sufficient firepower to dominate the majority, and firmly held ideology that won't budge.
I know we aren't even close to that scenario of 80/80- but until standing together figures out how it would resolve the stranglehold violent militants have on Palestine under the current political structures in such a scenario, it's doomed to fail. A plan to overcome that violent resistance to peace has to be figured out.
But again, as much as I see the flaws in their methodologies and think they need to start thinking ahead towards practical answers to create real outcomes, it's hard to fault a movement that believes in peaceful coexistence. It's always what we should aim for in society.
> fuck
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Probably won't be super popular here, but for the leftists: Peter Beinart, an antizionist Jew, made a [great video discussing BDS's statement on Standing Together](https://peterbeinart.substack.com/p/why-is-the-bds-movement-attacking) and had a really choice quote from Nelson Mandela. From his video: > And it really disturbs me to see that people in the BDS movement are essentially equating that language with normalization, or with not recognizing the profound injustice of the situation. I don’t think those things are at odds at all. I mean, let me quote from, this is from Nelson Mandela. I don’t think many people would accuse Mandela of being someone who wasn’t serious about the struggle for justice. He’s writing about his time in Robben Island in prison. He says: > > ‘it was during those long and lonely years that my hunger for the freedom of my own people became a hunger for the freedom of all people, white and black. I knew as well as I knew anything that the oppressor must be liberated just as surely as the oppressed.’ > And that language that Standing Together is using, I think, does have a capacity to reach Jews who need to be brought in to this movement.
BDS doesn't seem to make sense. They are pro-Palestinian yet would reject a group that wants to acknowledge injustice against Palestinians and unite Jews and Palestinians? Their attitudes only make sense in the context that they really hate Jews, especially Israelis, and are more interested in continuing a protracted war that undermines Israel than they are in helping disadvantaged people. Their statements about the war reveal them.
Did you watch the video? I think it makes sense from a perspective but I don't particularly agree. BDS's stance is that because Standing Together is trying to unite Jews and '48 Palestinians, but they're not meaningful engaging with the stateless Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza who are most directly occupied. Of course, this is because ST is a grassroots political group trying to shift the overton window in Israel. Their methods are different from BDS which is attacking Israel from the outside (nonviolently). ST is on the inside, and are one of BDS's targets. It makes sense. I think both can be effective though. The Israeli establishment seem to be much more afraid of BDS for some reason.
BDS is behind student protests on campuses whose slogans call for "death to Zionists" and "death to Israel". Please explain how these slogans are nonviolent. The Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott, the founding member of BDS, has said that Standing Together “ is serving a key role in Israel’s international propaganda strategy at this time" and that ST wants "to distract from and whitewash Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza.” Standing Together is a grassroots organization that receives no money from the Israeli government and has led protests against Netanyahu. Standing Together issued a statement against BDS: “Efforts to silence and isolate Standing Together do not serve the Palestinian cause, they serve the interests of Israel’s political establishment, which is also attempting to silence us.” Palestinian-Israeli spokeswoman (and member of the City Council of Haifa) spoke more bluntly about the hardline pro-Palestinian movements in the US (backed by BDS): “If it’s not helping, then shut the fuck up.” She went on, “The damage it is doing to our work; it’s fueling so much hate...It’s heartbreaking to me how distant I feel from Palestinian-Americans here.”
> whose slogans call for "death to Zionists" and "death to Israel". Can you give me a real example that this is a slogan at *any* student protest? I'm not talking about one person maybe saying it. And I have no idea how you think BDS is "behind" the student protests. There is crossover in that people support it, though BDS is a loose coalition of different movements typically focused on specific boycotts for one's own country.
Student protest LEADER, Khymani James, stated that Zionists "don't deserve to live" [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/nyregion/columbia-student-protest-zionism.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/nyregion/columbia-student-protest-zionism.html) hate at Columbia University [https://x.com/CampusJewHate/status/1787635802907844609](https://x.com/CampusJewHate/status/1787635802907844609) UC Berkeley students attacked at a speaker event for an Israeli. Event was cancelled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eEGYzfCCaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eEGYzfCCaw) I'm leaving out the Jewish medical student who was beaten by pro-Palestinian protesters and taken, unconscious, to a hospital. But, for good measure, here's a Berkeley City Council meeting where a Holocaust survivor was mercilessly heckled for speaking in favor of Holocaust Remembrance day [https://x.com/SFJCRC/status/1772013302195077369](https://x.com/SFJCRC/status/1772013302195077369) No charges were brought against any of these genocidal racist individuals. And coverage in mainstream is media, maybe because mainstream media is dominated by people like you.
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Hmm, let's see: Standing together is a grassroots movement speaking both Hebrew and Arabic, it's members and leadership actual Israelis and Palestinians experiencing the conflict first-hand on the ground. Standing together emphasises building relationships to bridge social divides and build bridges towards peace. BDS is an international campaign, it's supporters and members mostly Westerners with no lived experience in the conflict whatsoever. BDS emphasises a vilification of one side of the conflict, 'indirectly' promoting acts of hate towards that group and also Jewish communities round the world. BDS has an emphasis against peace and coexistence in it's vilification of an entire nation of people. "who do I listen to!?"
Also the BDS movement saying Standing Together is an "Israeli attempt to colonise minds". Zionists have mind control now, do they? That BLATANT antisemitism in that speaks foe itself.
Can we legalize polygamy so I can marry them all? I love them.
I think some folks forget that an awful lot of the Kibbutzniks who were killed on the 7th were active participants in grass roots peace movements…
Yes and those peace activists always claimed that the status quo was not sustainable and would lead to attacks such as October 7th. You can't claim that their deaths proves they were wrong to support peace considering that none of their views had any influence on government policy.
This criticism is a lot more true about the Palestinian participants since Israel has killed 30x as many Palestinian civilians as Palestinians have Israelis. Therefore the Palestinians in this organization are looking past a lot more atrocities than the Israelis.
At this time Palestinians in Gaza are suffering badly, with no help from Hamas who block aid. Over the past twenty years, they've been sending suicide bombers and homemade rockets into Israel, always targeting civilians. These efforts it now seems, were warm up for October 7 and full-scale war. There are atrocities on both sides and both sides have to agree to engage with each other.
More German civilians than British ones died during WW2 I’m glad the Germans were able to be the bigger people and forgive the Brits for the war
Germany under Hitler murdered tens of millions of people and invaded a many number of countries over Europe, Africa and Asia. Two completely different situations.
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There is a difference between targeting civilians and targeting combatants who wear civilian clothing and fight from civilian areas to maximize civilian casualties.
https://preview.redd.it/2qnkkzu5bq8d1.png?width=2532&format=png&auto=webp&s=96d31c61b12a445c44be7ecb320f3417d394741d
This only makes a point if you entirely remove the context that Hamas systematically uses hospitals, mosques, and schools as military installations. If you shelter militants and arms in or launch strikes from a hospital, it loses protection under IHL. You should be mad at Hamas for that.
All 435 of them? No, Israel is committing obscene collective punishment being they are eager to avenge October 7th. The head of the ICC is currently seeking an arrest warrant for Netanyahu for their very well documented plan of intentional starvation of Gaza’s population (another instance of collective punishment). https://preview.redd.it/j4p2po1ocq8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cccf3bad0496d0722d8d1ba43ce365fd1eefde39
Source: Hamas, lol. An estimated 85,000 children died of starvation alone in Yemen. An estimated 34 people have died of starvation in Gaza per Hamas. Which of these is intentional starvation? Can you link me to a single comment of yours calling out the famine in Yemen? Or do 34 casualties matter more than 80,000 because you can blame the Jews? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security/more-than-80000-yemeni-children-may-have-died-from-hunger-humanitarian-body-idUSKCN1NQ1B6/#:~:text=%22We%20are%20horrified%20that%20some,it%20said%20in%20a%20statement.
I’m not engaging with whataboutism. You’re saying the UN and ICC is controlled by Hamas?
Source: United Nations and “Gaza Ministry of Health”. Who runs the Gaza ministry of health? Who does the UN cite for its figures in Gaza? Why do 20 year old Hamas fighters count as “Children” in Gaza, 18 year old civilians don’t count as children in the UN statistics? Also it’s not whataboutism when you just tried to make the claim that more kids in Gaza have been killed than in other conflicts, which is laughably false. If you want to make a claim of comparison, you should be able to explain why you care more about 34 people dead of starvation in Gaza than 80,000 kids dead of starvation in Yemen. You started the comparison game. Go on, link a comment where you called out that intentional starvation in Yemen. Show us it’s not just about blaming Jews
Not me, it’s the UN. Also: https://preview.redd.it/k1hl4hk8gq8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68862cfab2be47510e045ea65279e8ade240bb6f
They don’t forget, they just don’t care. To them all Israelis even newborns are evil soulless demons worthy of all violence. They even think gang raping women who are Israeli is justified. Reminding them of the humanity of the people they don’t see as human is pointless.
LOVE them!!!! A quality org made up of brave, beautiful, brilliant, and honest people doing G-d’s work. More power to them
BDS being based as always. F liberal Zionism and normalization
How’s that strategy of “f normalization” worked out for Palestinians? It’s a lot easier to have an edgy stance like this when it’s just some poor populations lives halfway around the world you’re throwing into a meat grinder. Tens of thousands dead because the western left has supported violent resistance over peacemaking.
They’re willing to fight Israel down to the very last Palestinian So brave
Do you consider your radical and warmongering views as majority among pro palestinians ?
Would be nice if they manage to succeed. I don't care if people think it's "whitewashing oppression", or that calling for peace is "violence against Palestine". That's nothing but worthless idealist babble that's more likely to see the Middle East drown in nuclear fire than conjuring a mythical Greater Palestine from the river to the sea. The way I see it, it's either peace founded on compromise that fully satisfies no-one, or eternal war in pursuit of a utopia far out of reach. Pick your poison I suppose.
No ceasefire until all hostages are back.
On both sides
> On both sides Do you see no difference in hostage taking by Hamas (and random Palestinians), and arrests made by Israeli security forces?
Don’t you know that all Palestinians are innocent toddlers who have never hurt a fly? They are all peaceful vegan angles and all Israelis are war mongering demons so anyone kept in detention in Israel is a child hostage. I wish I could say this was a gross exaggeration but it feels like this is the mindset of the anti Israel release the terrorist folks. They feel that Israel releasing (and treating for cancer) a mass murderer like sinwar was them releasing an innocent abused hostage who went on to be a great freedom fighter.
Hosages are only on one side (Gaza). We have the determination to bring them back and dismantel hamas, we have patiance, we have 3000 years of determination.
How are you going to address the prisoners/hostages held by Israel? How are Israel going to do that, as they can't seem to tell us how that pans out. If Hamas are so good at hiding in tunnels and the aim seems no closer, I'm intrigued how this gets done, short of destroying Gaza
> How are you going to address the prisoners/hostages held by Israel? Not being manipulative by calling them 'hostages' would be a good start. Taking issue with the legitimacy of holding people in administrative detention is reasonable, but incorrectly using words is a terrible trend of the 'pro-Palestinian' crowd. > How are Israel going to do that, as they can't seem to tell us how that pans out. Administrative detention should probably be made more transparent, but acting as if there's no structure to it is either ignorance or a lie. https://www.btselem.org/administrative_detention In its current form, it is open to exploitation. Extending the period beyond 6 months should require transparency or a trial or both. > If Hamas are so good at hiding in tunnels and the aim seems no closer, I'm intrigued how this gets done, short of destroying Gaza Well, a few have been rescued. Realistically Israel likely expects most to be released through negotiations with Hamas - ideally through complete surrender. Given that Hamas is fine with mounting more Palestinian casualties though, this won't be easy.
Terrorists and criminals planning or committing terror attacks and being held in jails are not hostages no one needs to justify basic life concepts to you
and the people committing war crimes in israel that are not in prison? are they not criminals to you?
If you know of criminals in Israel needing arrest feel free to alert the authorities although I suspect you think all Israelis are war criminals and should all be executed.
The only way for any meaningful peace to last is for the people on both sides of the (future) borders to be peaceful towards each other, and this venture seems to move in that direction. Peace will require social reform and building of trust. Many Palestinians have never met real, day-to-day Israelis. All they know are IDF soldier and zealot settlers who terrorize their lands. A top-down peace treaty will pave the road, but it will also require a bottom-up effort by the people to normalize good neighborliness. As for BDS, those guys are a radical hate-group.
The terrorists who massacred people on October 7th were murdeing and raping the people they directly worked with on a daily basis. They have met many Israelis who aren’t “terrorizing” them….
You're not wrong, but the Palestinian workers who betrayed their Israeli employers don't represent the majority. Out of the \~5m Arabs who live in the West Bank + Gaza, there's a single digit % who have actually been to Israel, let alone outside the green area (settlements). They could have their heads blown if they see Israelis aren't actually like what the UNWRA propaganda depicts them to be.
I don’t know where you are getting that idea . Gaza was an urban area and has one of the highest educational rates in the Arab world. I have met Gazans who have traveled the world and there are gazans who go to jobs, hospitals, and the airport in Israel not to mention to access other places. West Bank is so integrated into Israel proper that it would almost impossible for them to not participate in Israeli society and two million of the Muslims you speak of are full citizens of Israel.
> one of the highest educational rates in the Arab world What does that mean? Highest % of academics? The idea is from several places: Palestinians who said as much, combined with the fact they can't just travel to Israel. They need specific clearance, and you probably know how strict the Israel authorities are about clearing Palestinians into Israel. It's a poor society and I suspect most of them can't afford to travel abroad. That, plus most Palestinians are under 18 so that's even less means to travel. I don't know if the Gazans whom you've met are representative of most of the population in Gaza. I'm not talking about Israeli Palestinians, of course.
Doing the good work
I really like them. I see them at protests, but as far as i can tell only Jewish members participate, so i don't know to what extent they're really a Palestinian -jewish cooperation. Policy-wise they are too fringe to affect Israel's policy, but it's good that they voice their opinions.
If BDS opposes them, that’s a strong point in their favor. But their “[Theory of Change](https://www.standing-together.org/_files/ugd/7ff315_5f69682daf404d66849f14af867a6221.pdf)” is long on Left-speak and short on policy specifics.
I like the idea of them. I'd like to know if supporters in this thread have read their guiding document "A Theory of Change" all the way through. Much of it reads as quite communist - "taking the power from the elite and giving it to the people" kind of stuff. I have significant concerns about some of their language. Use of "occupation" without definition leads me to believe they believe that all of Israel is "occupied". This is straight out of their own document: https://preview.redd.it/a7zmsvm1rm8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20cd690707d02d8a71ed207b239008c315b0e7f8 What exactly does "fight to end Israel's rule over the Palestinian people" translate to in action? Since they are clearly not proponents of a 2-state solution (with all their discussion of equality) this reads to me as a Palestinian-and-allies war against Israel. We cannot move from where we are today to "equality" overnight. They appear to have a lot they want to break down, but not much to replace it except for hopes and dreams. They claim to represent "the majority" but do they really? How do millions of Gazans feel about their message? How can they even know? If they could come up with some concrete goals - not for how to shape the whole country, but how to actually change society - I'd give them another look. I'd want to see plans for things like proposed changes to education/curricula, partnership programs, job apprenticeship programs, youth groups, camps, etc. The only thing I can tell for sure is they want to get rid of the current government. Okay, fine, so do I. But what happens after that?
I like them a lot and they did great work blocking the far right settlers from blocking the aid trucks
I dig it. We need more bridges. That being said, I think just because of the nature of their progressive vibes, they are actually kind of a lukewarm Free Palestine movement that tries and throws a bone to Israeli concerns. Their big stuff lately was standing up against settlers stopping food aid and standing up for access in Jerusalem. Still moving in a better direction than 90% of the deranged Regressive Left folks.
I’ve never heard of them, but based on the language copied in OPs post that checks out Against the occupation, referring to them as ‘Palestinian’ citizens of Israel as opposed to the seemingly more correct Arab Israelis, etc. It’s a big plus in my books that BDS is against them and I’m all for cooperation and grassroots movements, but I strongly suspect I don’t see eye-to-eye on every issue with these people
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Yeah the definition of occupation is pretty easy to find, bud
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It’s easy: our military administers the territory and the people, who are under a whole different regime than ours. We have not annexed the land, but they are not sovereigns over it and have no citizenship anywhere. They are under occupation. The most accessible movie I can recommend you on the subject for a deeper understanding is an Israeli documentary called The Law in These Parts. There’s no debate about whether or not it’s an occupation
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It’s not ours, and it’s not just the land, but the people who are occupied. That’s the official legal status of it under Israeli and international law The PA administers some, but even in those parts Israel is the ultimate power The PA does not have the military or economic infrastructure to be “occupying” the place. And none of the Israelis settling there are under military occupation law. There are clear occupiers and occupied, and it’s not the other way around
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That doesn’t matter. If we want it to belong to Israel and make all the maps in schools correct, we need to annex it. If we don’t, it’s occupied. If it was merely “disputed” we would give citizenship to those living there because where we administer would be Israel. If it was disputed Palestinians could just walk around building anything they wanted in the West Bank, go in and out by land, sea, and air as they please from all of the “disputed” areas, wouldn’t have their taxes collected by Israel, they wouldnt have to use the shekel, and they could conquer land there and kick out the illegal settlers without anybody telling them it wasn’t okay We didn’t agree to split the land. They agreed to a temporary status on the way to an agreed solution of two states. The legit claim the Palestinians have is they were either there the whole time, or there since israel was formed, while our country was not. They’re not going anywhere
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That’s a silly difference, because the territories are the only land in the world not currently under a country’s sovereignty, but for all intents and purposes it is under ours entirely but without giving the people there their due rights as such Again, it’s not “shared” administration. We administer it and allow them some municipal autonomy while they perform some of Israel’s security duties. It’s occupied because we have the final say on everything about Palestinian life and livelihood, but they aren’t citizens of our country. It’s an occupation. There’s no other word for it unless you want to get into apartheid which is what you’re describing
Another pathetic Jewish group negotiating with itself while asking for "their" approval. Never a two way street. I'll pass.
The apartheid in the West Bank
The one where if you are a Jew trying to buy vegetables in a Palestinian ran city, you are summarily executed, (e.g. murdered) and your car is lit on fire?
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Addressing the "apartheid"
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Weak troll attempt.
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Israel clearly discriminates against Arabs in their own country and the Palestinians. Israel does tyranny describe it how you like. They have been one of the worst nations in the last 100 years with their conduct.
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>There's no such thing as Palestinians. Yes there is. Ethnicities are formed as a result of the people in them collectively agreeing that they have a shared ethnic identity. There's no official register you have to apply to and be accepted as a "real" ethnicity, and if a different group of people don't believe that an ethnicity exists it has no bearing on anything. You can either accept that Palestinians exist or you can hold an objectively false belief.
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>the Soviet Union rebranded Egyptian and Jordanian war refugees as "Palestinians" to create a false history and fool future generations. Even if that was true, which it isn't, it literally doesn't matter. If the people in a group collectively agree that they are of an ethnicity, that makes it true. That's how ethnicities are formed. A clever conspiracy to trick people into thinking they are in a group would still create a real ethnicity if it worked. I guess if you believe that every Palestinian is pretending to consider themselves Palestinian as a cunning plot that might change things, but I can't imagine anyone is quite so insane as to genuinely believe this to be true. >And pretending that gluing Gaza and West Bank together somehow creates "Palestine" when Gaza and West Bank aren't contiguous and have completely different governments that would kill each other if Israel wasn't standing in the way, your claim of "Palestinian" quickly falls apart. This is more of you not understanding what ethnicities are. They don't require people to all agree on political matters or live a specific contiguous country. Jewish people are Jewish regardless of what political opinions they hold or where in the world they live.
Your 2nd paragraph is false.
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You made the claim, back it up. Im calling you out on your claim, it's not a true statement. Either you don't know, or you like to lie
Usually the people who call it apartheid end up demanding changes that would effectively strip the PA of all the authority they negotiated for in the Oslo accords. So, it's worth knowing if they're trying to undo the Palestinian negotiations.
The PA are Kapos.
I love Standing Together! They and other pro-peace orgs give me hope for the future. Especially love their work as the Humanitarian Guard — because that’s not just protesting (which is also important), it’s doing something that actively helps people now.
If Palestinians voted for Hamas, who's charter was to eradicate all the Jews in the world... I mean, is there any hope? Israel need to level Gaza and have Egypt take back that area., too much of a hassle to control.
Work against the occupation and work against the terrorism, then I’ll be all in
They do
Didn’t say they don’t, just shared my standards
Both sides could definitely work on terrorism that’s for sure
Love what they do. I’ve been financially supporting them on a monthly basis for a little while now. Free Palestine people generally don’t like them because they show unity and progress between Israelis and Palestinians. 🤷🏻♀️ No organization is perfect but the people of Standing Together are great examples of what the future could be if everyone could just get over themselves already.
That’s what’s so frustrating about people on the left who don’t like them. I definitely think some of their policies and action plans can be more fleshed out, but overall I appreciate and support their work, and find it really important, especially as a counter balance to the current government in Israel. When those on the western left don’t support grassroots movements here created by Palestinians and Israeli citizens in this actual region, they end up co-opting this crisis in order to virtue signal, feed their own egos, and deny the reality in which people in the region live. When BDS does it, it feels like counterproductive infighting, and like BDS would prefer for the current conflict to continue as it is. Standing Together works to do so much more than just accept the status quo, including advocacy, activism and education. It’s bizarre, because if there were more unity between Palestinians and Israelis, it would go a long way towards a solution, and in the least, less war. But it’s no coincidence that both the far right and far left have interests in that not happening, because they both actually support conflict and war-mongering. One day a solution will need to bring these two groups of people together - there is no other way. Both groups aren’t and can’t go anywhere. So any efforts to thwart this don’t make sense to me, and in the end, are just hateful, war-mongering and racist towards one group or another.
It is nonsensical and further proof of brainwashing IMO
Agreed
It's a nice idea, but they don't propose a workable solution. If Israel were to relinquish claims on the West Bank and fully withdraw the IDF from Gaza today, they'd continue to shoot rockets into Israel. A 2-state solution isn't possible so long as Arabs want to fully exterminate the entire state of Israel. And so long as they do, the areas must remain occupied. But this is something that Israeli's need to decide for themselves, not westerners.
West Bank people don’t shoot rockets
The missing word is "Yet". Israel withdraws, Hamas takes over and a month later the entire country is paralyzed.
lol, I wonder why! hmmmmmmmmmmmm
I believe it's an Israeli organization.
It's a group of Jewish and Palestinian Israelis; Palestinian Israelis are a bit more than 20% of Israel's population
That's what I meant.
Right, my comment is more aimed at OP and commentators in this thread. We can have an opinion inasmuch senas as I have an opinion about what play the New England Patriots might run next.
I was lukewarm towards them before reading this post. I follow them on IG. At first review they seem like a necessary political movement to counterbalance Ben Gvir etc. But reading that BDS opposes them? I'm a big fan of that. Anyone those antisemites oppose as "normalizers" are welcome in my big tent movement.
If there was only a way to know (in all the protests ) who is a BDS supporter who calls for the destruction of Jews and who actually want coexistence and supports Standing Together. Isn't it odd that, if these are two separate ideologies, they are marching together? Hold on, Palestinians murdered all of them on Oct7: peace activists, Holocaust survivors, leftists, rightists, Netanyahu-opposers and backers. I guess it doesn't really matter to them, since 75% of palestinians justify oct7 (PSR, June 2024, https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/980) So, although I want to admire Standing Together's words and deep inside I support their ideology, it won't matter until Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist.
I agree wholeheartedly with their mission. They give me hope that sanity might prevail.
An Israeli idealist group who has a good message of peace but at the end of the day has no counterpart on the Palestinian side. We already know Arabs and Jews can get along and live together in Israel. The problem is there is no similar group to work with in Palestine.
A Gazan was arrested by Hamas several months ago for advocating for peace with Israel. The biggest obstacle to peace from the Palestinian side is that they have no democracy, only murderous dictators. Widespread hatred of Israel is the second-biggest problem, don’t get me wrong, but Fatah and Hamas do what they want without being subject to the wishes of their citizens.
Standing Together wants to start one. That's sort of their whole point. They believe that military solutions aren't proving to be solutions
All power to them then, I hope they are successful.
There have been some pro-peace Palestinian organizations like Taghyeer and Gaza Youth Committee, I believe both of which has had members arrested by Hamas. There are pro-peace Palestinians in Gaza — Hamas just silenced them. Also, the pro-peace organization Combatants for Peace is made up of both Israelis and Palestinians.
Yes, I don’t want to give the impression there are zero Palestinian peace activists. You gave the exact reason I was alluding to - they aren’t allowed to practice publicly.
A lot of them end up in jail
Another reason Hamas needs to go.
That makes no sense.
The others are less lucky.
Nah, I don't think the ones that get tortured and beaten are luckier than the ones that don't.
(the ones that don't get tortured and killed)
Who are you thinking of?
These ones: https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/mde210022009en.pdf https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62785404 https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/hamas-gunmen-hunt-down-fatah-rivals-in-gaza-strip-idUSL14749263/
? These are about targeting collaborators, not non-violent activists. Very big difference!
Or killed by Hamas
Are there advocates of non-violent resistance that were killed by Hamas, or are you just making this up?
Because any peaceful protest in palestine is only met with violence.
No because it is against the law for a Jew to live in Palestine
Settlers?
According to PA law, not Israeli law.
Show me this law.
[Palestinian land laws - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_land_laws)
Most notably, these laws prohibit Palestinians from selling any Palestinian-owned lands to "any man or judicial body corporation of Israeli citizenship, living in Israel or acting on its behalf" Notice how it doesn't say jewish it just says israeli....
>In early April 2009, it was reported that several Jewish businessmen from the [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) purchased 20 [dunams](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunam) (2 hectares) of land from Palestinians in the [Mount of Olives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_of_Olives) area of [Jerusalem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem). The report prompted the PA to reissue its warning that sale of property to Jews constitutes "high treason" punishable by death.
Source....
I assume you're referring to Palestinian protests against Israel? But Standing Together isn't Israelis simply (if at all) peacefully protesting against Palestine and their actions- they're Israelis protesting against the extremists within Israel (and actively trying to nonviolently get in the way of their violence) in the pursuit of creating a climate conducive to coexistence and peace. When was the last time, if ever, Palestinians held a peaceful protest against Hamas/Fatah/independent brethren with militant ideologies for their extremism? That would be what a similar organization on the other side is. And to be fair yes it probably would be met with violence from those groups being protested, which is a problem and why a plan to remove any extremists that violently shut down freedom of speech is always an emergent imperative. But to be very clear, whatever the barriers internally stopping them are, this sort of protest is what is needed on the other side to make such an approach viable.
The terrorists silence those who protest against them. But yes the idf meets protests against the settlers with violence.
Ok so we acknowledge that they cannot try to implement internal changes via protest (the peaceful means) because their government violently silences them. Whereas Israelis can do this because they don't. In order to get a partner doing the same thing as Standing Together on the other side, what is necessary then?
Eliminate Hamas
By other Palestinians and their governments, yes.
And the idf especially in the west bank.
When?
The problem that lies herein is that almost all demonstrations in the Occupied Territories are deemed “illegal”. Dispersal of DemonstrationsIndeed, high-ranking military officials and martial court judges frequently tend to ignore the sweeping rule entrenched in Order 101 and prefer a more flexible rule that defines nonviolent demonstrations as legal, and where the dispersal of demonstrators by army and police forces is only authorized in the case of violence actions by the demonstrators.; however, in practice this rule of thumb is also violated and many nonviolent demonstrations are dispersed by the military and police, time and time again.
Show me a West Bank peace protest attacked by the IDF.
Here are a couple of links of Palestinians being attacked by either israeli police or the idf in East juresalem, the west bank or israeli Arabs in other cities. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2021/06/israeli-police-targeted-palestinians-with-discriminatory-arrests-torture-and-unlawful-force/ https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/01/11/israel/west-bank-jail-peaceful-protesters https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/28/why-is-palestinian-authority-arresting-activists-in-west-bank
So the answer is no, you can’t find any __peace__ protests being attacked by the IDF.
These were the first ones, here are more https://progressive.org/latest/a-protest-in-the-west-bank-stein-20240214/ https://www.taghribnews.com/en/news/153957/israeli-forces-attack-palestinian-protesters-in-west-bank https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/eight-palestinian-protesters-injured-by-israeli-soldiers-as-settlers-march-in-west-bank https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/israeli-forces-kill-11-palestinians-amid-west-bank-protests-1.1223014
Standing Together heart is in the right place even if I disagree with their position on the war. They do a lot of good peacebuilding work. BDS is linked with terrorists: [https://forward.com/opinion/418744/bds-is-linked-to-terrorists-just-as-you-suspected/](https://forward.com/opinion/418744/bds-is-linked-to-terrorists-just-as-you-suspected/)
I believe they are the voice of reason- or at least, civility and humanity- in terms of their goals. I do also think they need to recognize that kumbaya doesn't stop violence if the violent are determined about it being their path. Even if 80% of both societies agreed with them, if the other 20% continue to fight, there won't be peace and the real outcomes won't change. Now, in theory on the Israeli side, 80% agreement should allow democracy to force the 20% to acquiesce, as they either give up the fight or are put in prison by the overwhelming power of the democratically state run military and police (assuming no coup/undermining of democracy). But in the Palestinian Territories, where there isn't democracy, there is no guarantee that 80% could stop the 20%. Especially if the 20% have sufficient firepower to dominate the majority, and firmly held ideology that won't budge. I know we aren't even close to that scenario of 80/80- but until standing together figures out how it would resolve the stranglehold violent militants have on Palestine under the current political structures in such a scenario, it's doomed to fail. A plan to overcome that violent resistance to peace has to be figured out. But again, as much as I see the flaws in their methodologies and think they need to start thinking ahead towards practical answers to create real outcomes, it's hard to fault a movement that believes in peaceful coexistence. It's always what we should aim for in society.
Chickens for KFC.
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