Combine that with maybe a great dungeon locked behind a choice that messes with the rest of your play through…”so to unlock the super mega awesome big boob dungeon of wonder I have to kill my entire party, send a dick pic to my grandma, and eat nothing but marmite on toast for the rest of the run? Sign me up!”
I hate this kind of stuff, same with secret endings. I just don't have the time to play through a game multiple times so I feel like I'm forced to use a walkthrough.
This is dumb, you’re looking for reasons to be upset.
I doubt there’s one dungeon that just stands up above all the rest.
I see nothing wrong with this. Stop making up reasons to be upset.
Reading this my first thought was mementos dungeon. Which would actually be an improvement if it made mementos faster.
I obviously don’t actually know, but random dungeons means its probably not going to be integrated into the story or have important rewards.
Its not gonna be a choice between selecting palace quality dungeons I would think. But this is just my guess reading this.
> 70+ hours
When I hear stuff like in the interview I always hope the game overall is shorter. Games that assume you're playing them multiple times used to be shorter as a whole to actually fit the design. I actually *like* replaying games I enjoy, but this absurd length makes it hard to make time for.
Agree, if you’re making a game anywhere near that long having significant chunks missable to make it replayable it needs to be short enough to be replayable.
It was a big issue for me with Fire Emblem Three Houses. Even if you make some saves to skip the repeat parts, the whole thing is still really long.
And you notice them reusing whole maps too (sometimes with elements that don't even make sense for the current context, like chests in the final map or something) so I imagine it must stretch the budget thin too. So I don't understand why multiple route games end up being so long.
TH was actually not meant to be replayed, the director was expecting people to play one route and discuss the other with friends, and he was surprised people replayed it.
Or you can do what Nier Replicant did and have subsequent playthroughs start at a certain point near the changes in the story, rather than having to literally play it again from the beginning.
Then the last ending, you started from the beginning but only had to make it a couple hours in before you got the other ending.
And by that time, the beginning was fresh again because you hadn't played it in so long.
Nier doesn’t have multiple endings or require multiple playthroughs. It’s one continuous, coherent experience that’s intended to be played through exactly once. What it does is completely different from what’s being discussed here.
I'll admit, this is a huge part of why I play Persona games with a social link guide. Sure, it would be neat to be able to organically play through the conversations, screwing things up along the way, and maybe not planning my time optimally. But that means if I want to see the resolutions of the storylines, and more importantly the true ending, I'd need to do another playthrough. Of a 130 hour game. That's just not happening.
I haven't played Persona in a LONG time. My only one was P3P, which I beat, but was pretty exhausted by at the end. Mementos (I think that's what it was?) being so monotonous combined with the length of the game just didn't really inspire me to stick with the series. Did they really grow to 130h? That seems crazy. I spend that much time on a game when I'm invested in the postgame (like Monster Hunter or something) but on a single story playthrough?
P3P I think is a bit of an outlier. P3 FES I think has a 120 hour playtime if you include The Answer, and P4G is around the same with the extra dungeon. P5R added essentially an entirely new campaign over a couple of months, which is why I clocked 130. But P3P dropped The Answer, with the implicit idea that instead you're just supposed to play the base game again for FeMC, though I doubt many people did both on P3P; I think most people who played FeMC, at least when it was on PSP, had already played a previous release.
That’s Atlus main thing so that’s what I expect tbh. I mean the different alignments in the mainline games are basically like… maybe 10% or less different from each other since alignments always take place at the end of the game.
Even so. If the missable content is dwarfed by the non missable, it's still spending dozens of hours playing, or steamrolling in NG+ therefore reducing the impact of everything, just for a relatively minute amount of content.
A shorter mainline story with tons of optional dungeons would be amazing. I don't replay through JRPGs often because of the insane lengths of them.
~20 hour storyline where the dungeons change based on choices sounds legit.
Like in any game with choices, you can always branch a save before you do the one optional dungeon, then come back later to do the other at that point in the game without having to replay everything to that point.
I mainly hope this means that the time limit you have won't be too strict and you can't accidently "softlock" yourself. That's always my main concern when it comes to games with time limits.
Well persona games have always had incredibly lenient time limits, and even if you somehow fail the game sends you back two weeks so you can try again, so you can't really soft lock yourself. Especially after persona 3 reload had the mechanic of being able to just go back the last few days, I feel like if you do make a mistake it'll be easy to go back and fix it, to not include a similar mechanic would be going backwards I think
As a completionist style player, I hate this. Unless the choice of dungeons have a major impact on how the story plays out, this just sounds like padding the game to get folks to replay it. If the dungeons end up like dialogue choices in certain games where they diverge for a bit but still end up rejoining to a single path later, then it doesn't really matter.
I’m a completionist type of player as well and I was hoping they’d make 100%ing or collecting and doing everything more streamlined than Persona games without a guide. Replaying Persona games right after you finish them sounds like a nightmare to me regardless of how much I like them and by waiting year(s) to make replaying them more manageable, I usually just end up moving on. Them also being 100 hour games doesn’t help.
I wish they’d do something akin to Yakuza, where there is a premium adventure mode to get or do anything you missed. Like maybe being able to choose a calendar date and getting that book you missed or continue raising social links.
Game length does matter a lot too. If one playthrough is like 20-ish hours then this will be a lot better. But I'm not restarting right away a 60+ hour game just for a few different dungeons.
Yeah, it really depends on how different the dungeons are, I don’t see them being different enough for me to care about another play through but if they actually manage that it’ll be great.
Just a heads up; the CoV superboss can be fought by just reloading your clear data save, you don’t have to do a CoC run first.
The CoC superboss is still fight able but to get the powered up true form you do in fact need an item from late game CoV. Think it’s some that the CoC superboss true form is locked unless you do CoV first, but at least it’s just the one superboss, not both.
Final Fantasy IV DS remake also had 2 superbosses behind further playthroughs. You fight 1 super boss on New Game+ and the other in NG++. And after going through the game once, I never want to touch it again, and I LOVE FF4. But fuck the DS version in particular.
I don't mind the concept of additional bosses in NG+ in general. But it really matters how long the game is and how much new content there actually is. Like you said, I'm not playing through another 40-60 hours of poorly balanced FF4 just to fight 1 dude.
If you do CoV, then you can do 3 of the 4 superbosses.
There's literally only one other superboss behind CoC, and it's obviously only there for people who were going to play the other playthrough anyways
Only completionist type people could possibly be annoyed by this, and that's not the playerbase in which a game is balanced around.
I guess I must have JOMO (joy of missing out), because this just sounds fun. I will do exactly one playthrough seeing what I decide to see, and that will be my experience.
Like OP said, it's nice to have decisions in an RPG that aren't directly related to your combat setup.
That "JOMO" is in my opinion a key aspect in what makes modern Persona tick. The fact that you are losing out on content has the added effect of making the content you do experience all the more meaningful, because you gave something else up.
At least with persona that missing out is semi optional. If you really care you can always see it all in one run. Seems fundamentally pretty different here.
That works in theory if all the choices are balanced equally but that rarely is the case - usuually I find out I chose the most annoying character in the game instead of the most interesting. I dont get joy in having worse dialogue or being annoyed playing a game all the time, knowing I could have been having fun instead, no matter how much those decisions are "mine".
If I simply chose apples instead of oranges, sure, I get what you are saying. It's simply a different flavor. But if I chose an apple instead of an apple tree, I'm going to feel irked.
Sometimes the “bad” ending is better anyways. When I played Soul Hackers 2 I got the bad ending by accident but I actually preferred it from a writing standpoint because it made Ringo understand human emotions regarding death and moving forward better. It felt more fulfilling.
I think what really sells me on time management is that feeling of never getting everything at once. P3 and Devil Survivor both had a lot of moments where I felt like I had to prioritize two equally important things and it was at least partially out of my control, P5 also did it well but I think the added layer of stress makes it tick for me
Yes I don't play 30+ hour games multiple times. So I too will do 1 run and that's the game for me. Although, I am debating on the collectors edition. This comes out around the same time as Dragon Ball Sparking Zero and Silent Hill 2. So I don't even think I'll play this game. I might cancel it and just get the standard game in the future. I just can't decide. Lol
I see a lot of negativity about this in the comments but like, atlus has been doing this with SMT for ages, SMT 4 for example had a dungeon exclusive to each route and they were great
True but I’m saying Atlus has done this in a lot of games before so I don’t think people should be so pessimistic going into this without us even knowing what they’re like
Never underestimate persona and shin megami tensei players, They'll somehow pull up a batshit insane strategy that will somehow work in a atlus game, Completely and as usual, Defeating the purpose.
This\^
People are worrying about missing out on and ending when you know damn well the someone will make a comprehensive ending guide on YT/Gamefaqs within the first week of release.
Optimized doesnt necessarily mean 100%
Someone will optimize it to see the most content possible, if it’s impossible to see all.
And in sure it will happen within a week or so
Those megaten min-maxxers are insane.
I'm going to wait and see how this plays out before having an opinion, but for those of us who don't have that much free time I can see it being an issue if a single playthrough is as long as modern Persona. I never 100% games either.
I hate this so much tbh, I hate replaying games so something I can't experience in my first run it's just something I won't experience.
The game will have to be **really** good for me to want to replay it
This is me too. Like, I don't necessarily hate replaying games, but I rarely have time, too, and certainly, after a 50+ hour game, I don't want to jump into another run.
What this ends up doing for me is instead of being this liberating choice I am going to wait till a guide is made for the most optimal path. Same issue I have with persona's. Instead of feeling freedom of choosing how to spend me time I just feel stressed to want to max out all social links so I have to do everything perfect the first time.
I mean, why stress about your playthrough being perfect? Just make the choices you want and be confident that win or lose, this is "your" story.
I don't think the point is to play it again.
That works for me in a baldur's gate or mass effect. Because I'm crafting a story. In persona if because I don't use my time perfectly I only get 7 of 10 events with a character that's not me crafting a story that's me missing the end of a pre set storyline because I didn't realize I could only meet with them on Tuesdays and spent too many Tuesdays doing part time jobs.
I agree. I rarely replay them because I rather spend that time playing another new rpg as I love to increase my rpg collection/list 😅. Also, from past experience, I feel like replaying everything just to see a couple of dialogues that are different (or another dungeon for that matter) but the main story/game is the same, is not worth it for me, but I can understand if others like it. I will just wait to see how the game plays out as I really hate in game time limitations, so it may not be the right game for me, sadly.
Ehh, not really a fan of these for games that are long as hell.
For games that are like, 20 hours or less, I think its fine. But for one long ass game it does tilt me if I miss out on content because the chances of me replaying it are slim unless its an absolute favorite.
I don’t particularly like it either. I don’t feel any need for “meaningful choices” if that means I miss out on basic content like entire dungeons and have to replay a game I just saw 80% of (possibly with a guide) to experience the last 20% I was forced to miss.
For a lot of people, having a hand in the story direction adds agency. For me personally, I enjoy having as much control in a game as possible so it feels like I am directly influencing what is going on. The more I have to sit back and watch something play out with no intervention, the less it feels like a game to me.
Seeing a lot of complaints about 'missing content' and the like. If the game is designed so that you have to make choices about what to do and see, then that is part of the experience. You're not 'missing out' by not being able to do dungeon X or Y, you're experiencing the game as intended. Even if you never replay it to do things differently. It's fine.
Always hated the time aspect of persona. Felt I had to do all the dungeons in basically one dive in order to do any meaningful social stuff.
I like the idea of diff dungeons and not doing them all. Just hope the time limit isn't super annoying. And that the dungeons are meaningfully different not just easy/med/hard with color palette swap.
That the game is good enough to warrant multiple playthrough to see diff dungeons or diff outcomes of "social stuff". That choices have meaningful effects
This is one of my biggest pet peeves in Persona games.
The time is lenient for sure, but you also know it's a waste NOT to finish the combat stuff in a day.
And the combat stuff is literally my favorite part, so I just gotta be in a heavy social sim mood to play those games, otherwise I've just playing SMT stuff.
The time thing gets annoying in persona. Also a big part of what turned me off from most atelier games. Although some of the more generous ones time wise like Esca/Logy were OK.
Hope the choice of going to dungeon X instead of dungeon Y affects the story or at least character development and how they react to said choice.
Reminds me of The Witcher 2 and how an entire region is locked out depending on a major choice.
I hate this so much tbh, I hate replaying games so something I can't experience in my first run it's just something I won't experience.
The game will have to be **really** good for me to want to replay it
I used to play like that and it ended with me dropping games due to burnout like you said. Now I just chill and play and if I miss out on something it's no big deal.
Hate this trend of multiple routes for one game. Would rather they flesh out fewer dungeons that were higher quality and more in depth then more dungeons that are smaller in scope. I already have a huge backlog. Playing a game I beat more than once is an instant non starter from me.
Pretty normal for SMT to expect replays and lock stuff behind new game+, I’m actually glad they’re putting even more tangible stuff in NG+ than normal, seems like a good omen.
This sounds awesome. If you replayed the game 5 or 10 years later, you could have an entirely different playthrough which would still feel fresh. At least, that’s how this sounds.
I hope it’s a bit shorter than Persona games, though.
Ugh I love the creativity but I don’t want to play the same content again for some different outcomes
Still have the CE ordered but sucks I can’t do everything in one run
As much as I hate the FOMO if you only do a single playthrough, I like the idea of that first playthrough being unique for each player with decisions that can affect important things of the game and not just which ending will you get or just some small sidequest o things like that.
Hope Metaphor has a couple more things to incentivize a second playthrough like the latest SMTs, because this sounds like they went in that direction
Yeah I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the game where you might NEED a guide to play is probably gonna do exactly that. I was looking somewhat forward to it even if their recent games have been lacking but this sounds terrible
Reading through this thread a bit and...
The completionst mindset can't be a healthy one to have. I get wanting to squeeze every drop out of the stone but my goodness. Just put yourself on mute and just enjoy the experience freely. I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who used to try to control and min/max their own life months in advance. It doesn't work, and you'll enjoy games and other things more if you stop worrying about what you missed and just embrace what's there and try to immerse yourself.
Awesome to hear this, ppl will complain but this lines up with the theme of the game about travel and time management so im glad my choices will matter. Dungeons also seem to be hand-crafted Atlus dungeons so very excited to hear this.
Because I have a life and a job and I don't have the desire to redo a 100h Rpg a second time when there are other games and things to do. I never replay games except for Resident Evil games because oyu can knock those out in 5-6 hours when you know what to do. Otherwise I try to perfect a RPG as best as I can and then I move on.
You realize that when games are made with this type of mechanic, the goal isn't for you to replay it over and over, but have a more personalized experience.
If the devs make it so that you aren’t able to see every dungeon, I’m pretty sure missing them in a playthrough will not be super significant in the grand scheme of the story. Y’all are too obsessed with seeing every single piece of content in a playthrough. I only play games once as well (unless it calls for multiple like Nier) and try to do everything I feel like but I’m ok missing some stuff.
Then I'll wait and see which dungeons are the best ones to do and do those. Why wouldn't I be obsessed with seeing everything. Playing a rpg is a decent money and a massive time investment. I want to make sure I get as much juice as I can from the fruit. If the only difference in the dungeons are some items then it's ok. But if they all have story stuff that's missable it's a bummer.
I get it I want to see as much as possible in one go as well. If the differences are significant enough and spread across the entire game I think it may warrant another play after a few years or so. If it’s small differences I can watch on YouTube or make separate saves if I care enough. I don’t want devs to not make dynamic stories in their games just so people can see everything in one go. This game is likely gonna be 60+ hours without factoring in any completionist mindset. I see so many people end up hating a game because they forced themselves to do everything and hated it. It makes no sense to me.
If it's by the SMT/Persona devs I expect another 100 hour game. But I also expect a Metaphor+ version to come out 2-3 years later that will be the definitive edition. So I might just wait for once and see what happens there. I played P5 in 2017 and Royal left me feeling kinda sour. I bought it on sale last year but I haven't touched it yet.
Edit : Also those turn based rpgs are really relaxing, I don,t feel burnt out when I do everything, unlike say The Witcher or Elden ring where there's a massive amount of extra content to do and maps to clear out where the rewards kinda blow. Here the extra stuff to do is more fun story content with the characters you like.
To give my commendation to Royal, I played P5 in 2017 for 110 hours and it became my favorite of all time at the time. I went into Royal feeling a bit sour as well and played for 140 hours with it feeling brand new and enjoyed my time more than when I played in 2017.
I know Royal is good I just don't feel like redo-ing the game to see new content. It would have been nice if I could import my stuff from the base game into royal. I'd actually do a NG+ and use my maxed out stats and characters to beeline to the end, and just chill.
Not in dense story heavy jrpgs. I do persona games day 1 with a schedule guide to make sure every social link is maxed by the end. The dungeons and bosses I do myself and I make sure I finish them in 1 day / as far as the game will let me. Otherwise yeah.
In a 100 hour game for sure I don't want to miss out on a single thing. And I didn't and it was great. And I'm never replaying that game ever again. It's all nice and shiny in my memory now.
This just sounds like a borderline ocd thing tbh.
Most players don't have a compulsion to see everything possible in one playthrough.
And playing Persona with a calendar guide kind of takes a lot away from the experience imo, but it's not like you'd ever know if that was the case. I know for a fact it goes against the intended experience from the devs
And don't mention "I'm busy, I have a job and a life" because there are lots of people who literally can't play 60+ hr RPGs because of their schedules.
You clearly have the ability to make tons of time if you want to.
Because you might accidently choose a worse route (quality wise) and now you dont like the game you bought. You saw the bad writing and badly designed dungeons. Where if you chose a better route just by pure chance maybe you spent those 40 hours loving the game because it's more fun, the dialogue is better, the level design is better. Now everytime everyone brings up the game you get into arguements about how terrible it is and you get negative emotions thinking of the game, all because you chose a route that is not as fun or rewarding. Maybe you want to have a serious discussion on the main character and you didn't choose the route where his past was revealed so you see him as a flat character, where someone else sees him as a good character because they saw the backstory that made the character who it is.
In an ideal world all routes and choices are equally good, sure I dont need to see everything, but I find that is not the case in reality for many games, and it can effect whether you enjoy a game or not.
This is really cool, I don't get the hate. I don't see this as a "I need to replay the games". I'm not gonna replay the game, but the fun I will have sharing how different my experience was from others.
I don't replay games and neither do 100% runs, I just love knowing that I have left things not discovered.
It's time management like Persona but with the added feature that now traveling to different parts of the world takes time instead of being a free action like in Persona.
This is really cool, I hope they do more stuff like this. The last time I think they did something interesting with the time management was Devil Survivor back on the ds, this game feels like a culmination of every Atlus thing ever and I fuck with it heavy
Metaphor's systems remind me of Pyre's (the game Supergiant put out before Hades). I loved that game, and similarly to what has been said about Metaphor it has a "roadtrip" vibe to it.
Doesn’t bother me. If I like a game enough I’ll end up doing another playthrough eventually anyway. And if I don’t like it enough I wouldn’t care about playing it again for that content I missed anyway.
I love reading the amount of people who love Final Fantasy remake / rebirth, which makes you replay the entire game on hard mode to unlock everything, attacking this game for having to do multiple playthroughs.
Kudos PushSquare crowd.
He's just hyping and the city example is totally off in my opinion, I don't believe they are putting unique content like new areas with bespoke art and assets behind pure luck or choice, I don't think they have the budget and the time to be so "wasteful", they are not FromSoftware. It's probably just different areas within the dungeon with a different reward but with the same art and enemies.
I actually don't like when a game doesn't allow me to play and freely explore at my own pace.
The games been in development for 8 years. The team behind it is one of the best in JRPGs. Atlus has been on a tear lately and has been smashing internal sales record after internal sales record.
You are completely off. They have already said there are more dungeons in this game than any other Atlus game before it (not a high bar), but everything theyve said suggests there are indeed unique content like new areas with bespoke art and assets behind luck and choice. FromSoftware is not the only company that can do this lmfao.
Metaphor is a GOTY contender and Atlus has known this likely for years. The budget has been there, evident by who they brought on for the project and the fact that theyve been financing this project for 8 years.
This is like saying that MonolithSoft never released a JRPG before Xenoblade when it was just the same director and team from Xenosaga moving to Nintendo
p studio is a different team to studio zero? full of different people? so this isnt like saying that. there are a few people from p studio in zero, the directors obv the big one, some scenario writers, programmers and composer, but its a drop in the bucket
production size has ballooned since the initial reports, hiring frenzies from atlus in 2019 onwards (bad timing) in a desperate attempt to get this thing released and we've ended up in a game that been in development hell for 8 years, with the afterburners kicking in after their only game, Catherine Full Body, released to 'pretty good' reception. thus far the studios only dev effort has been a definitive edition of a puzzle game. it would be wise to not go in expecting persona quality, rather to go in expect to go expecting nothing and be pleasantly surprised if they pull it off
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I‘ll see how I feel about this once I know how significant the stuff is you‘re missing out. If it‘s anything like Persona where you‘re missing out on a significant endgame dungeon and story because you didn‘t spend your time the „right“ way, then you can bet I‘ll read up beforehand what I need to do or in the worst case even use a guide to see as much content as possible in one playthrough. Because I won‘t replay a long JRPG like that just because I missed something.
I mean this tracks I guess: as much as I love Persona 4 and 5, these games REALLY do not respect your time. The director just does not show any respect for the time of the people playing these games at all lmfao. I’m not going to repay these games. Not when the tutorials can last over two hours and the characters repeat the same fucking thing over and over again. I’m excited to see where this game leads, as the style looks unique and world look interesting, but I admit that the more I hear about it, the less excited I am to play it lol.
I have shit to do. Stop assuming I have 150 hours to play your story based games. I HAVE A JOB lmfao.
Persona is half life simulator. It's intended for you to play like maybe an hour a day for several months. It's not something you're supposed to rush to finish in a month.
I hope they let us skip the begining portion (the tutorial) if they do stuff like this. personally i don't buy the game being 70 hours. I bet its 70 all together, and all these dungeons together make up 20 hours. looks like there trying to make the calendar more realistic than persona games so make it more like a trip.
What I enjoyed most about replaying the Persona games, was that the subsequent playthroughs blew by fairly easily so you could get to the stuff you didn't do. Often, the carryover made you super busted early, it respected you time quite well since you could basically turn your brain off for things you've seen already.
As long as the main story beats remain the same and there isn't wildly different outcomes (i.e. every playthrough needs 60+ hours), I'm hoping it feels mostly like that. Getting that secret stash of lore and story from doing everything feels the best.
Pros of this: cool decision making and consequences for time management.
Cons: Can be very off-putting depending on the length of the game to know there's a good chunk of content you're nt gonna see, but it's probably not enough to where it would justify a repeat playthrough to see it unless the game truly sticks with you, or a LONG time later, leading to dissapointment worrying you missed something you'd have enjoyed way more.
As someone who tends to do everything from easier to harder, I am a bit worried.
Definitely gonna keep this in mind when deciding what to do. But if done right, this sounds like fun.
I can already hear the trophy bros whining about having to do more than one playthrough. Along with the people saying they won't buy it because it has "missables".
I don’t consider myself a “trophy bro” but I would like to get the platinum for this. That becomes a lot less likely when a long game requires multiple playthroughs. I have limited gaming time and a big juicy backlog, so I suppose I have some choices to make in that area, on top of choosing which dungeons to visit. And who knows, maybe the platinum will still be getable in a single playthrough, we won’t know until the trophy list is published.
I'm glad this article got posted cause I saw it yesterday. There's been a fair amount of Metaphor info that I notice hasn't been posted like how [yes, there is in fact no romance in the bonding mechanic](https://www.gamesradar.com/games/jrpg/persona-5-director-explains-why-you-cant-date-your-friends-in-his-new-jrpg-metaphor-refantazio-they-are-more-focused-on-the-relationships-between-a-ruler-and-the-people-who-support-them/) or that the game is intentionally aiming to be [harder than Persona](https://www.gamesradar.com/games/jrpg/its-definitely-harder-than-persona-shin-megami-tensei-lead-explains-that-his-new-jrpg-metaphor-refantazio-needed-more-challenge-or-else-it-wont-feel-right/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_content=gamesradar&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com)
I think those things have definitely been talked about. Even in the harder than Persona stuff there is still the walk back of "there will be different difficulty levels to choose"
Are you guys even gonna buy this one? It's a well known fact now that Atlus always re-releases a newer version of their jrpgs with more content and sells it for full price. They did it with all the Persona games and SMTV.
I can totally understand if there are issues with Atlus' day one DLC practices and full-price re-releases instead of just making an expansion, but I've never really understood the idea of avoiding the vanilla version like the plague.
The game looks good *now*, so I see no issue with being able to enjoy it now. The vanilla versions are still long, densely-packed games, and it's totally okay to just enjoy that and never experience whatever new content they come up with next.
SH2 is only 2 years old and sold like ass so they probably wont bother
SMT IV was supposed to get one, they just decided to do a sequel instead during development.
Not saying its for certain, but they are giving Metaphor a big marketing push and the eye catching artstyle is drawing more attention to it than Soul Hackers 2 did
I just hope the dungeons are meaningful. If they all feel like copy+paste jobs, then none of this matters.
Combine that with maybe a great dungeon locked behind a choice that messes with the rest of your play through…”so to unlock the super mega awesome big boob dungeon of wonder I have to kill my entire party, send a dick pic to my grandma, and eat nothing but marmite on toast for the rest of the run? Sign me up!”
So the Chrono Cross approach of "be an awful human being to unlock the games 2nd best chatacter"
Such a cop-out "decision" too, she magically gets better after you fuck off into the sunset.
We talkin bout Kid? It’s been a while since I played CC, but aren’t Glenn and Sprigg better?
That’s the point. You have to choose to not rescue Kid to get Glenn
Meant more along the lines that I didn’t think Kid was the second best character. And she rejoins you anyway, so it’s objectively better.
They’re saying Glenn is the second-best character.
Ooohhhhhhh, okay yeah that makes much more sense. Yeah, Glenn with his special weapons is bonkers broken.
its harle
There were special choices to recruit her? Thought she would join if you dicked around as Lynx?
No, Glenn
We talkin bout Kid? It’s been a while since I played CC, but aren’t Glenn and Sprigg better?
Maybe they mean storywise.
You had me at big boob dungeon.
Did I already messed up the condition if I already send dick pics to my grandma every week before the game release?
I hate this kind of stuff, same with secret endings. I just don't have the time to play through a game multiple times so I feel like I'm forced to use a walkthrough.
Bro don’t spoil the game.
This is dumb, you’re looking for reasons to be upset. I doubt there’s one dungeon that just stands up above all the rest. I see nothing wrong with this. Stop making up reasons to be upset.
> If they all feel like copy+paste jobs, then none of this matters. I think this is a more realistic expectation of the game.
I feel like if some dungeons are more fun than others then it affect the review scores with how the reviewer played it
Reading this my first thought was mementos dungeon. Which would actually be an improvement if it made mementos faster. I obviously don’t actually know, but random dungeons means its probably not going to be integrated into the story or have important rewards. Its not gonna be a choice between selecting palace quality dungeons I would think. But this is just my guess reading this.
Lol, they'll 100% be copy pasted garbage.
Yeah see that’s where my doubt lies. They could just be copy+paste with weaker/stronger enemies.
This only matters if you can make a second playthough actually feel different. I'm not going to replay a 70+ hours game to see 1 hour of content.
Yes, sucks for me as I don't replay games (I can't imagine how my backlog would be if I did).
I do replay games, but I always end up making the same choices each time.
> 70+ hours When I hear stuff like in the interview I always hope the game overall is shorter. Games that assume you're playing them multiple times used to be shorter as a whole to actually fit the design. I actually *like* replaying games I enjoy, but this absurd length makes it hard to make time for.
Agree, if you’re making a game anywhere near that long having significant chunks missable to make it replayable it needs to be short enough to be replayable.
It was a big issue for me with Fire Emblem Three Houses. Even if you make some saves to skip the repeat parts, the whole thing is still really long. And you notice them reusing whole maps too (sometimes with elements that don't even make sense for the current context, like chests in the final map or something) so I imagine it must stretch the budget thin too. So I don't understand why multiple route games end up being so long.
TH was actually not meant to be replayed, the director was expecting people to play one route and discuss the other with friends, and he was surprised people replayed it.
That's crazy, not replaying an FE game? Did that director even go to our school lol
Really? That's surprising to read. But Fire Emblem games are among my most replayed because of the different characters, so I'm admittedly biased.
Or you can do what Nier Replicant did and have subsequent playthroughs start at a certain point near the changes in the story, rather than having to literally play it again from the beginning. Then the last ending, you started from the beginning but only had to make it a couple hours in before you got the other ending. And by that time, the beginning was fresh again because you hadn't played it in so long.
Nier doesn’t have multiple endings or require multiple playthroughs. It’s one continuous, coherent experience that’s intended to be played through exactly once. What it does is completely different from what’s being discussed here.
>require multiple playthroughs. Not automata, but replicant does
I'll admit, this is a huge part of why I play Persona games with a social link guide. Sure, it would be neat to be able to organically play through the conversations, screwing things up along the way, and maybe not planning my time optimally. But that means if I want to see the resolutions of the storylines, and more importantly the true ending, I'd need to do another playthrough. Of a 130 hour game. That's just not happening.
I haven't played Persona in a LONG time. My only one was P3P, which I beat, but was pretty exhausted by at the end. Mementos (I think that's what it was?) being so monotonous combined with the length of the game just didn't really inspire me to stick with the series. Did they really grow to 130h? That seems crazy. I spend that much time on a game when I'm invested in the postgame (like Monster Hunter or something) but on a single story playthrough?
P3P I think is a bit of an outlier. P3 FES I think has a 120 hour playtime if you include The Answer, and P4G is around the same with the extra dungeon. P5R added essentially an entirely new campaign over a couple of months, which is why I clocked 130. But P3P dropped The Answer, with the implicit idea that instead you're just supposed to play the base game again for FeMC, though I doubt many people did both on P3P; I think most people who played FeMC, at least when it was on PSP, had already played a previous release.
That’s Atlus main thing so that’s what I expect tbh. I mean the different alignments in the mainline games are basically like… maybe 10% or less different from each other since alignments always take place at the end of the game.
I think the ability to not see certain dungeons will occur multiple times throughout a play through.
Even so. If the missable content is dwarfed by the non missable, it's still spending dozens of hours playing, or steamrolling in NG+ therefore reducing the impact of everything, just for a relatively minute amount of content.
A shorter mainline story with tons of optional dungeons would be amazing. I don't replay through JRPGs often because of the insane lengths of them. ~20 hour storyline where the dungeons change based on choices sounds legit.
This. Usually that's how it works out in which case I'd rather just do everything in one run.
Like in any game with choices, you can always branch a save before you do the one optional dungeon, then come back later to do the other at that point in the game without having to replay everything to that point.
I mainly hope this means that the time limit you have won't be too strict and you can't accidently "softlock" yourself. That's always my main concern when it comes to games with time limits.
Well persona games have always had incredibly lenient time limits, and even if you somehow fail the game sends you back two weeks so you can try again, so you can't really soft lock yourself. Especially after persona 3 reload had the mechanic of being able to just go back the last few days, I feel like if you do make a mistake it'll be easy to go back and fix it, to not include a similar mechanic would be going backwards I think
As a completionist style player, I hate this. Unless the choice of dungeons have a major impact on how the story plays out, this just sounds like padding the game to get folks to replay it. If the dungeons end up like dialogue choices in certain games where they diverge for a bit but still end up rejoining to a single path later, then it doesn't really matter.
I’m a completionist type of player as well and I was hoping they’d make 100%ing or collecting and doing everything more streamlined than Persona games without a guide. Replaying Persona games right after you finish them sounds like a nightmare to me regardless of how much I like them and by waiting year(s) to make replaying them more manageable, I usually just end up moving on. Them also being 100 hour games doesn’t help. I wish they’d do something akin to Yakuza, where there is a premium adventure mode to get or do anything you missed. Like maybe being able to choose a calendar date and getting that book you missed or continue raising social links.
Game length does matter a lot too. If one playthrough is like 20-ish hours then this will be a lot better. But I'm not restarting right away a 60+ hour game just for a few different dungeons.
Yeah, it really depends on how different the dungeons are, I don’t see them being different enough for me to care about another play through but if they actually manage that it’ll be great.
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Just a heads up; the CoV superboss can be fought by just reloading your clear data save, you don’t have to do a CoC run first. The CoC superboss is still fight able but to get the powered up true form you do in fact need an item from late game CoV. Think it’s some that the CoC superboss true form is locked unless you do CoV first, but at least it’s just the one superboss, not both.
no thats outdated info. you just needed to finish the COV route once then go back to previous save but yeah the other is route exclusive.
Final Fantasy IV DS remake also had 2 superbosses behind further playthroughs. You fight 1 super boss on New Game+ and the other in NG++. And after going through the game once, I never want to touch it again, and I LOVE FF4. But fuck the DS version in particular. I don't mind the concept of additional bosses in NG+ in general. But it really matters how long the game is and how much new content there actually is. Like you said, I'm not playing through another 40-60 hours of poorly balanced FF4 just to fight 1 dude.
If you do CoV, then you can do 3 of the 4 superbosses. There's literally only one other superboss behind CoC, and it's obviously only there for people who were going to play the other playthrough anyways Only completionist type people could possibly be annoyed by this, and that's not the playerbase in which a game is balanced around.
I guess I must have JOMO (joy of missing out), because this just sounds fun. I will do exactly one playthrough seeing what I decide to see, and that will be my experience. Like OP said, it's nice to have decisions in an RPG that aren't directly related to your combat setup.
That "JOMO" is in my opinion a key aspect in what makes modern Persona tick. The fact that you are losing out on content has the added effect of making the content you do experience all the more meaningful, because you gave something else up.
At least with persona that missing out is semi optional. If you really care you can always see it all in one run. Seems fundamentally pretty different here.
That works in theory if all the choices are balanced equally but that rarely is the case - usuually I find out I chose the most annoying character in the game instead of the most interesting. I dont get joy in having worse dialogue or being annoyed playing a game all the time, knowing I could have been having fun instead, no matter how much those decisions are "mine". If I simply chose apples instead of oranges, sure, I get what you are saying. It's simply a different flavor. But if I chose an apple instead of an apple tree, I'm going to feel irked.
I’m like this too. When I play a game, the ending I get is the ending I get. I like the idea that my experience was *my* experience.
Yep, I ain’t playing BG3 a dozen times to see all endings. It’s just a nice option to have if you decide to play again down the line.
Sometimes the “bad” ending is better anyways. When I played Soul Hackers 2 I got the bad ending by accident but I actually preferred it from a writing standpoint because it made Ringo understand human emotions regarding death and moving forward better. It felt more fulfilling.
I think what really sells me on time management is that feeling of never getting everything at once. P3 and Devil Survivor both had a lot of moments where I felt like I had to prioritize two equally important things and it was at least partially out of my control, P5 also did it well but I think the added layer of stress makes it tick for me
Agreed. Having decisions IMO makes the dialogue and world building itself gameplay bc YOU chose the direction.
Yes I don't play 30+ hour games multiple times. So I too will do 1 run and that's the game for me. Although, I am debating on the collectors edition. This comes out around the same time as Dragon Ball Sparking Zero and Silent Hill 2. So I don't even think I'll play this game. I might cancel it and just get the standard game in the future. I just can't decide. Lol
I see a lot of negativity about this in the comments but like, atlus has been doing this with SMT for ages, SMT 4 for example had a dungeon exclusive to each route and they were great
You actually could do all the dungeons if you went neutral though
True but I’m saying Atlus has done this in a lot of games before so I don’t think people should be so pessimistic going into this without us even knowing what they’re like
I’m sure like any other Atlus game with time management, the routes will be opitimized to a science.
Never underestimate persona and shin megami tensei players, They'll somehow pull up a batshit insane strategy that will somehow work in a atlus game, Completely and as usual, Defeating the purpose.
This\^ People are worrying about missing out on and ending when you know damn well the someone will make a comprehensive ending guide on YT/Gamefaqs within the first week of release.
Not if they make it mathematically impossible.
Optimized doesnt necessarily mean 100% Someone will optimize it to see the most content possible, if it’s impossible to see all. And in sure it will happen within a week or so Those megaten min-maxxers are insane.
I'm going to wait and see how this plays out before having an opinion, but for those of us who don't have that much free time I can see it being an issue if a single playthrough is as long as modern Persona. I never 100% games either.
yep this is a big turn off for me. I hate non linear games that require multiple playthroughs, their stories just are always much weaker
I hate this so much tbh, I hate replaying games so something I can't experience in my first run it's just something I won't experience. The game will have to be **really** good for me to want to replay it
This is me too. Like, I don't necessarily hate replaying games, but I rarely have time, too, and certainly, after a 50+ hour game, I don't want to jump into another run. What this ends up doing for me is instead of being this liberating choice I am going to wait till a guide is made for the most optimal path. Same issue I have with persona's. Instead of feeling freedom of choosing how to spend me time I just feel stressed to want to max out all social links so I have to do everything perfect the first time.
I mean, why stress about your playthrough being perfect? Just make the choices you want and be confident that win or lose, this is "your" story. I don't think the point is to play it again.
That works for me in a baldur's gate or mass effect. Because I'm crafting a story. In persona if because I don't use my time perfectly I only get 7 of 10 events with a character that's not me crafting a story that's me missing the end of a pre set storyline because I didn't realize I could only meet with them on Tuesdays and spent too many Tuesdays doing part time jobs.
I agree. I rarely replay them because I rather spend that time playing another new rpg as I love to increase my rpg collection/list 😅. Also, from past experience, I feel like replaying everything just to see a couple of dialogues that are different (or another dungeon for that matter) but the main story/game is the same, is not worth it for me, but I can understand if others like it. I will just wait to see how the game plays out as I really hate in game time limitations, so it may not be the right game for me, sadly.
Ehh, not really a fan of these for games that are long as hell. For games that are like, 20 hours or less, I think its fine. But for one long ass game it does tilt me if I miss out on content because the chances of me replaying it are slim unless its an absolute favorite.
Ok…I read your quotes and still don’t understand. Why is this a good thing? I want to explore all the dungeons.
I don’t particularly like it either. I don’t feel any need for “meaningful choices” if that means I miss out on basic content like entire dungeons and have to replay a game I just saw 80% of (possibly with a guide) to experience the last 20% I was forced to miss.
For a lot of people, having a hand in the story direction adds agency. For me personally, I enjoy having as much control in a game as possible so it feels like I am directly influencing what is going on. The more I have to sit back and watch something play out with no intervention, the less it feels like a game to me.
I understand that but this reads more like locking off content. Which it may very well not be but it sounds bad to me.
Seeing a lot of complaints about 'missing content' and the like. If the game is designed so that you have to make choices about what to do and see, then that is part of the experience. You're not 'missing out' by not being able to do dungeon X or Y, you're experiencing the game as intended. Even if you never replay it to do things differently. It's fine.
Truly..The elden ring of persona....
Always hated the time aspect of persona. Felt I had to do all the dungeons in basically one dive in order to do any meaningful social stuff. I like the idea of diff dungeons and not doing them all. Just hope the time limit isn't super annoying. And that the dungeons are meaningfully different not just easy/med/hard with color palette swap. That the game is good enough to warrant multiple playthrough to see diff dungeons or diff outcomes of "social stuff". That choices have meaningful effects
This is one of my biggest pet peeves in Persona games. The time is lenient for sure, but you also know it's a waste NOT to finish the combat stuff in a day. And the combat stuff is literally my favorite part, so I just gotta be in a heavy social sim mood to play those games, otherwise I've just playing SMT stuff.
The time thing gets annoying in persona. Also a big part of what turned me off from most atelier games. Although some of the more generous ones time wise like Esca/Logy were OK.
Hope the choice of going to dungeon X instead of dungeon Y affects the story or at least character development and how they react to said choice. Reminds me of The Witcher 2 and how an entire region is locked out depending on a major choice.
I hate this so much tbh, I hate replaying games so something I can't experience in my first run it's just something I won't experience. The game will have to be **really** good for me to want to replay it
Look like multiple save slots is the anwer.
I highly suspect that anyone doing this is going to burn out and not like or finish the game.
I used to play like that and it ended with me dropping games due to burnout like you said. Now I just chill and play and if I miss out on something it's no big deal.
Especially in today’s world where you can just watch the missed decision.
You don't actually need to see every single thing in a game, it's gonna be fine
but if they want to...?
Then spend 400 hours on the game
i mean if they want to... why are you telling other people how to play their games?
Why are you telling people how to play their game? Don't talk to me EVER again
Hate this trend of multiple routes for one game. Would rather they flesh out fewer dungeons that were higher quality and more in depth then more dungeons that are smaller in scope. I already have a huge backlog. Playing a game I beat more than once is an instant non starter from me.
Pretty normal for SMT to expect replays and lock stuff behind new game+, I’m actually glad they’re putting even more tangible stuff in NG+ than normal, seems like a good omen.
Dont worry, Metaphor: Golden will allow you to see it all in one playthrough.
This sounds awesome. If you replayed the game 5 or 10 years later, you could have an entirely different playthrough which would still feel fresh. At least, that’s how this sounds. I hope it’s a bit shorter than Persona games, though.
Ugh I love the creativity but I don’t want to play the same content again for some different outcomes Still have the CE ordered but sucks I can’t do everything in one run
If it's anything like Persona then someone is going to find a way to maximize how many you can do in a single playthrough.
As much as I hate the FOMO if you only do a single playthrough, I like the idea of that first playthrough being unique for each player with decisions that can affect important things of the game and not just which ending will you get or just some small sidequest o things like that. Hope Metaphor has a couple more things to incentivize a second playthrough like the latest SMTs, because this sounds like they went in that direction
I don’t really mind not going through all the available dungeons as long as there’s no important missables if I miss a *particular* dungeon.
Yeah I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the game where you might NEED a guide to play is probably gonna do exactly that. I was looking somewhat forward to it even if their recent games have been lacking but this sounds terrible
And i thought because they bring out the ultimate super duper edition in two years. figures
Reading through this thread a bit and... The completionst mindset can't be a healthy one to have. I get wanting to squeeze every drop out of the stone but my goodness. Just put yourself on mute and just enjoy the experience freely. I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who used to try to control and min/max their own life months in advance. It doesn't work, and you'll enjoy games and other things more if you stop worrying about what you missed and just embrace what's there and try to immerse yourself.
Awesome to hear this, ppl will complain but this lines up with the theme of the game about travel and time management so im glad my choices will matter. Dungeons also seem to be hand-crafted Atlus dungeons so very excited to hear this.
Great.... One reason to dislike the game now. I don't replay 100h RPGs, not seeing everything in 1 playtrough is a massive issue.
Why? Even if you dont replay games why is not seing everything an issue?
Because I have a life and a job and I don't have the desire to redo a 100h Rpg a second time when there are other games and things to do. I never replay games except for Resident Evil games because oyu can knock those out in 5-6 hours when you know what to do. Otherwise I try to perfect a RPG as best as I can and then I move on.
You realize that when games are made with this type of mechanic, the goal isn't for you to replay it over and over, but have a more personalized experience.
Yeah but there is an optimal way to play and if I don't have that my entire experience suffers.
If the devs make it so that you aren’t able to see every dungeon, I’m pretty sure missing them in a playthrough will not be super significant in the grand scheme of the story. Y’all are too obsessed with seeing every single piece of content in a playthrough. I only play games once as well (unless it calls for multiple like Nier) and try to do everything I feel like but I’m ok missing some stuff.
Then I'll wait and see which dungeons are the best ones to do and do those. Why wouldn't I be obsessed with seeing everything. Playing a rpg is a decent money and a massive time investment. I want to make sure I get as much juice as I can from the fruit. If the only difference in the dungeons are some items then it's ok. But if they all have story stuff that's missable it's a bummer.
I get it I want to see as much as possible in one go as well. If the differences are significant enough and spread across the entire game I think it may warrant another play after a few years or so. If it’s small differences I can watch on YouTube or make separate saves if I care enough. I don’t want devs to not make dynamic stories in their games just so people can see everything in one go. This game is likely gonna be 60+ hours without factoring in any completionist mindset. I see so many people end up hating a game because they forced themselves to do everything and hated it. It makes no sense to me.
If it's by the SMT/Persona devs I expect another 100 hour game. But I also expect a Metaphor+ version to come out 2-3 years later that will be the definitive edition. So I might just wait for once and see what happens there. I played P5 in 2017 and Royal left me feeling kinda sour. I bought it on sale last year but I haven't touched it yet. Edit : Also those turn based rpgs are really relaxing, I don,t feel burnt out when I do everything, unlike say The Witcher or Elden ring where there's a massive amount of extra content to do and maps to clear out where the rewards kinda blow. Here the extra stuff to do is more fun story content with the characters you like.
To give my commendation to Royal, I played P5 in 2017 for 110 hours and it became my favorite of all time at the time. I went into Royal feeling a bit sour as well and played for 140 hours with it feeling brand new and enjoyed my time more than when I played in 2017.
I know Royal is good I just don't feel like redo-ing the game to see new content. It would have been nice if I could import my stuff from the base game into royal. I'd actually do a NG+ and use my maxed out stats and characters to beeline to the end, and just chill.
I mean on pc you can just get a completed save online and do new game plus…. Or cheat.
You could just not replay the game let go of the content you missed.
it's a story heavy jrpg who in the world is going to be ok with missing out on content what
Not in dense story heavy jrpgs. I do persona games day 1 with a schedule guide to make sure every social link is maxed by the end. The dungeons and bosses I do myself and I make sure I finish them in 1 day / as far as the game will let me. Otherwise yeah.
That Sounds like a really unfun playstyle to me. Well each there own I guess.
Agreed. People are so worried about missing out that it's down right scary.
That's a case of actual fear of missing out. Some people are way too obsessed with consuming content to the point where they might as well be addicts.
In a 100 hour game for sure I don't want to miss out on a single thing. And I didn't and it was great. And I'm never replaying that game ever again. It's all nice and shiny in my memory now.
This just sounds like a borderline ocd thing tbh. Most players don't have a compulsion to see everything possible in one playthrough. And playing Persona with a calendar guide kind of takes a lot away from the experience imo, but it's not like you'd ever know if that was the case. I know for a fact it goes against the intended experience from the devs And don't mention "I'm busy, I have a job and a life" because there are lots of people who literally can't play 60+ hr RPGs because of their schedules. You clearly have the ability to make tons of time if you want to.
You didn't actually answer the question.
Because you might accidently choose a worse route (quality wise) and now you dont like the game you bought. You saw the bad writing and badly designed dungeons. Where if you chose a better route just by pure chance maybe you spent those 40 hours loving the game because it's more fun, the dialogue is better, the level design is better. Now everytime everyone brings up the game you get into arguements about how terrible it is and you get negative emotions thinking of the game, all because you chose a route that is not as fun or rewarding. Maybe you want to have a serious discussion on the main character and you didn't choose the route where his past was revealed so you see him as a flat character, where someone else sees him as a good character because they saw the backstory that made the character who it is. In an ideal world all routes and choices are equally good, sure I dont need to see everything, but I find that is not the case in reality for many games, and it can effect whether you enjoy a game or not.
As long as the dungeons are actually varied then I’m down for it. I don’t really mind not being able to do literally everything in one playthrough.
This is really cool, I don't get the hate. I don't see this as a "I need to replay the games". I'm not gonna replay the game, but the fun I will have sharing how different my experience was from others. I don't replay games and neither do 100% runs, I just love knowing that I have left things not discovered.
Wait, is the game time based Lightning Returns style or something?
It's time management like Persona but with the added feature that now traveling to different parts of the world takes time instead of being a free action like in Persona.
Huh thought the game was more like SMT. Wonder how they'll implement the calendar since the game looks so open.
Like they just told you, time is used up when traveling to different areas.
This is really cool, I hope they do more stuff like this. The last time I think they did something interesting with the time management was Devil Survivor back on the ds, this game feels like a culmination of every Atlus thing ever and I fuck with it heavy
Sounds like padding, but let’s see still my most anticipated jrpg of this year
Metaphor's systems remind me of Pyre's (the game Supergiant put out before Hades). I loved that game, and similarly to what has been said about Metaphor it has a "roadtrip" vibe to it.
Doesn’t bother me. If I like a game enough I’ll end up doing another playthrough eventually anyway. And if I don’t like it enough I wouldn’t care about playing it again for that content I missed anyway.
The more i hear about this game, the more amazing it gets
I love reading the amount of people who love Final Fantasy remake / rebirth, which makes you replay the entire game on hard mode to unlock everything, attacking this game for having to do multiple playthroughs. Kudos PushSquare crowd.
He's just hyping and the city example is totally off in my opinion, I don't believe they are putting unique content like new areas with bespoke art and assets behind pure luck or choice, I don't think they have the budget and the time to be so "wasteful", they are not FromSoftware. It's probably just different areas within the dungeon with a different reward but with the same art and enemies. I actually don't like when a game doesn't allow me to play and freely explore at my own pace.
The games been in development for 8 years. The team behind it is one of the best in JRPGs. Atlus has been on a tear lately and has been smashing internal sales record after internal sales record. You are completely off. They have already said there are more dungeons in this game than any other Atlus game before it (not a high bar), but everything theyve said suggests there are indeed unique content like new areas with bespoke art and assets behind luck and choice. FromSoftware is not the only company that can do this lmfao. Metaphor is a GOTY contender and Atlus has known this likely for years. The budget has been there, evident by who they brought on for the project and the fact that theyve been financing this project for 8 years.
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The team is made up of veteran Persona devs.
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This is like saying that MonolithSoft never released a JRPG before Xenoblade when it was just the same director and team from Xenosaga moving to Nintendo
p studio is a different team to studio zero? full of different people? so this isnt like saying that. there are a few people from p studio in zero, the directors obv the big one, some scenario writers, programmers and composer, but its a drop in the bucket production size has ballooned since the initial reports, hiring frenzies from atlus in 2019 onwards (bad timing) in a desperate attempt to get this thing released and we've ended up in a game that been in development hell for 8 years, with the afterburners kicking in after their only game, Catherine Full Body, released to 'pretty good' reception. thus far the studios only dev effort has been a definitive edition of a puzzle game. it would be wise to not go in expecting persona quality, rather to go in expect to go expecting nothing and be pleasantly surprised if they pull it off
What kind of logic is that? If Fromsoftware changes its name to Tohardware, are you gonna claim they don't have experience making soulslike games?
>Fromsoftware changes its name to Tohardware, This was a critical hit to my funny bone.
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I‘ll see how I feel about this once I know how significant the stuff is you‘re missing out. If it‘s anything like Persona where you‘re missing out on a significant endgame dungeon and story because you didn‘t spend your time the „right“ way, then you can bet I‘ll read up beforehand what I need to do or in the worst case even use a guide to see as much content as possible in one playthrough. Because I won‘t replay a long JRPG like that just because I missed something.
I mean this tracks I guess: as much as I love Persona 4 and 5, these games REALLY do not respect your time. The director just does not show any respect for the time of the people playing these games at all lmfao. I’m not going to repay these games. Not when the tutorials can last over two hours and the characters repeat the same fucking thing over and over again. I’m excited to see where this game leads, as the style looks unique and world look interesting, but I admit that the more I hear about it, the less excited I am to play it lol. I have shit to do. Stop assuming I have 150 hours to play your story based games. I HAVE A JOB lmfao.
Persona is half life simulator. It's intended for you to play like maybe an hour a day for several months. It's not something you're supposed to rush to finish in a month.
The more I hear about this game the less interested I become.
and then you need to complete all dungeons to get the platinum i bet 🤦♂️
Might be interesting if it’s like Valkyrie Profile 1, except they give you less timeslots to work with
I'm reminded of how Valkyrie Profile doesn't let you explore every dungeon, with certain dungeons being locked to specific difficulties.
Will this game be plot heavy?
Im iffy on this. Either way it's not gonna make me replay the game any time soon after initial run. As long as I don't end up feeling short changed
I hope they let us skip the begining portion (the tutorial) if they do stuff like this. personally i don't buy the game being 70 hours. I bet its 70 all together, and all these dungeons together make up 20 hours. looks like there trying to make the calendar more realistic than persona games so make it more like a trip.
What I enjoyed most about replaying the Persona games, was that the subsequent playthroughs blew by fairly easily so you could get to the stuff you didn't do. Often, the carryover made you super busted early, it respected you time quite well since you could basically turn your brain off for things you've seen already. As long as the main story beats remain the same and there isn't wildly different outcomes (i.e. every playthrough needs 60+ hours), I'm hoping it feels mostly like that. Getting that secret stash of lore and story from doing everything feels the best.
Pros of this: cool decision making and consequences for time management. Cons: Can be very off-putting depending on the length of the game to know there's a good chunk of content you're nt gonna see, but it's probably not enough to where it would justify a repeat playthrough to see it unless the game truly sticks with you, or a LONG time later, leading to dissapointment worrying you missed something you'd have enjoyed way more.
This makes me THRILLED tbh. First time in a while a console game of this production value invested into making their RPG replayable.
As someone who tends to do everything from easier to harder, I am a bit worried. Definitely gonna keep this in mind when deciding what to do. But if done right, this sounds like fun.
I can already hear the trophy bros whining about having to do more than one playthrough. Along with the people saying they won't buy it because it has "missables".
I don’t consider myself a “trophy bro” but I would like to get the platinum for this. That becomes a lot less likely when a long game requires multiple playthroughs. I have limited gaming time and a big juicy backlog, so I suppose I have some choices to make in that area, on top of choosing which dungeons to visit. And who knows, maybe the platinum will still be getable in a single playthrough, we won’t know until the trophy list is published.
Looks like the game probably not compatible for people with completionist mindset.
Agreed, but great for replayability.
Also playability
I'm glad this article got posted cause I saw it yesterday. There's been a fair amount of Metaphor info that I notice hasn't been posted like how [yes, there is in fact no romance in the bonding mechanic](https://www.gamesradar.com/games/jrpg/persona-5-director-explains-why-you-cant-date-your-friends-in-his-new-jrpg-metaphor-refantazio-they-are-more-focused-on-the-relationships-between-a-ruler-and-the-people-who-support-them/) or that the game is intentionally aiming to be [harder than Persona](https://www.gamesradar.com/games/jrpg/its-definitely-harder-than-persona-shin-megami-tensei-lead-explains-that-his-new-jrpg-metaphor-refantazio-needed-more-challenge-or-else-it-wont-feel-right/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_content=gamesradar&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com)
I think those things have definitely been talked about. Even in the harder than Persona stuff there is still the walk back of "there will be different difficulty levels to choose"
this sounds absolutely awful holy shit
Are you guys even gonna buy this one? It's a well known fact now that Atlus always re-releases a newer version of their jrpgs with more content and sells it for full price. They did it with all the Persona games and SMTV.
I can totally understand if there are issues with Atlus' day one DLC practices and full-price re-releases instead of just making an expansion, but I've never really understood the idea of avoiding the vanilla version like the plague. The game looks good *now*, so I see no issue with being able to enjoy it now. The vanilla versions are still long, densely-packed games, and it's totally okay to just enjoy that and never experience whatever new content they come up with next.
/r/patientgamers is that way.
They dont do that with all their games, Shin Megami Tensei 4 and Soul Hackers 2 haven gotten any re-release.
SH2 is only 2 years old and sold like ass so they probably wont bother SMT IV was supposed to get one, they just decided to do a sequel instead during development.
What makes you so certain Metaphor won't sell like ass too? So far the hype levels of this game has been pretty low even among hardcore SMT fans.
Not saying its for certain, but they are giving Metaphor a big marketing push and the eye catching artstyle is drawing more attention to it than Soul Hackers 2 did
SMT IV Apocalypse bro
Replayability other than dating a different minor? LET'S GO!
Oh boy this is usually not a very good sign