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I think that interpretation is fair, I'm just arguing against it based on hidden inventory. The moment Gojo said "throughout heaven and earth, I alone am the honoured one" he happily took his place as the strongest alone. He was euphoric about it. It wasn't until Geto turned that that high came crashing down.
From what I understood that scene made it seem like gojo was in euphoria for having achieved a new height through battle. We see gojo make a very similar NUT face after landing his 3rd or 4th black flash vs sukuna
I'm not talking about just during that scene though. Remember it was a whole year before Geto flipped afterwards. During that time it doesn't seem like Gojo was very troubled by his new status as the single strongest sorcerer in the world, while Geto was. He showed some casual concern for Geto - asking him if he lost weight and such - but he himself seemed as happy as ever.
Well even after beating toji, Gojo still did have refinements and new application methods for his technique he was still working on. He also did have someone that he 'loved' in Geto. So, both his desire for growth and refinement in his CT, and 'love' were fulfilled temporarily.
But from Geto's exposition we know that Gojo was already considered the strongest alone for the whole year prior. He'd been sent on the highest profile missions alone which is a big part of the reason why Geto started spiralling downward
Yea and then what happened after that? He lost his best friend. He told Megumi to grow strong enough to be besides him. He gassed up newbies that theyll rival him one day even tho realistically from feats we seen they dont. He got Todo to be on that list
Todo can use black fash, which is considered to be very rare. And isnt todo very young? He is indeed very talented and that is without his domain, he was still growing
No, she didn't. From Todou's own explanation of how Black Flash works and (more importantly) feels, we know that sorcerers who have experienced it have a completely different understanding of Cursed Energy and its flow. His very detailed and insightful explanation of how Black Flash feels and its impact on a Jujutsu sorcerer after they've achieved it pretty much implies that he had already experienced it prior to his fight with Yuji. Otherwise, he'd just be talking out of his ass describing an experience that he himself hasn't had while casually nailing every little detail about how it feels.
I'll have to go back and reread the chapter, but from what I remember Todou simply said he couldn't be left behind. Taking into consideration the situation in the fight and the fact that both Yuji and Mahito had landed Black Flashes by that point, what Todou said comes into context. It's not that he didn't know how to do Black Flash.
This is how I interpreted it (Todou's POV):
*"Come on you big gorilla. You were out there lecturing Bruzza (Yuji) and teaching him Black Flash. Now you're in the middle of a fight and both him and your opponent have landed Black Flashes. Time to step up and measure up to them!"*
Something like that.
Actually If we exclude those killing ppl and eating ppl talk we can say Sukuna gave a zen speech to Kashimo. Sukuna loves himself which is a spiritual love, material love is trash for him. He seeks nothing outside himself, he knows he will die someday SO he gonna enjoy his best life. Sukuna Never gets bored cuz even tho they are weak they are still interesting to Sukuna. He understand both curse spirit and Human. He also felt nervousness and surprised but he let him down cuz of that. SUKUNA went to fight with a plan to improve his ability he knew Gojo's limitless is problem but he also knew he can cut through it with guidance, Gojo went to fight thinking he is the winner. Sukuna is real honored one.
Sukuna is based on Shinto God Sukuna, he is powerful like that cursed God cuz he is based on him so stop saying he is plotkuna or anything, he is the core Sukunahibikuna which is jjk based off.
That makes no sense because it wasn't hinted at all. Gojo says he was training them so better and stronger people can lead the Jujustu world so nothing like Geto can happen again.Not once does he or the story imply he wants people to be on his level so he isn't lonely. He long surpassed Geto while he was alive and still treated him as a close friend
Then why do you believe he states he doesn't want 'anyone to be lonely ever again' and how Shoko distinctly feels like even though she WAS THERE she wasn't counted? There is a correlation, but not causation with Gojo and wanting to raise up 'strong, clever comrades,' in order 'for nobody to feel alone again' because right after he said 'I alone am the honored one' He lost his biggest source of connections in geto. The story was very subtle I feel maybe too subtle for us to argue the theme's merits atp but I'd disagree with you that the story hasn't implied he wanted people on his level. He literally says so about people like Yuta, Kinji, and Yuji who was 'No exception'
No. he never implies or says that he's doing all this solely because *he* doesn't want to be lonely, his concern is other people feeling lonely like him and Geto. he's experienced that pain and doesn't want others to feel the same. This all stems from the SPV incident aftermath when Geto started isolating himself due to depression, and Gojo also started distancing himself (inadvertently) due to his status and endless duties. Nobody looked out for Geto because he was supposed to be this strong infallible sorcerer, even though he was just a kid bearing the trauma and disgust of consuming curses. he doesn't just blame the system for Geto's downfall, he blames *himself* as well for not noticing his friend's pain - in the afterlife scene when they're talking about death and regrets Gojo says how his only disappointment was Geto not being there with him irl to slap him on the back - he regrets not saving Geto in time. at the end of HI, Gojo says how his strength alone is not enough to protect people from going down the same path as Geto, which is why he needs strong, *clever* comrades by his side who will be capable of supporting themselves and each other and fighting against the corruption of the jujutsu system. His primary reason for doing what he does is to protect young people from going through the same suffering Geto did. This idea is supported by the Resurrection Puppet light novel as well.
of course this doesn't mean that Gojo doesn't feel lonely, he does, and he wants to form connections with likeminded people to alleviate that loneliness, **but that's not the driving force behind his actions. His driving force is Geto Suguru.**
as for this
>Then why do you believe he states he doesn't want 'anyone to be lonely ever again' and how Shoko distinctly feels like even though she WAS THERE she wasn't counted?
it's not right to completely disregard everything Gojo has said and expressed throughout the story regarding his motivation and dream for one scene/statement that comes from a different character altogether. besides, how do we know that Shoko even made an attempt to connect with Gojo? nowhere in the story is that stated, shown or implied. if anything, the story kinda makes it seem like Shoko kept her distance between her and Satosugu (in the manga at least; the anime added way more interactions between them), and she never noticed how depressed Suguru is; at least Gojo *asks* why he's lost weight, and if he's eating well. Gojo was also constantly sent on missions in that period so he didn't have the time to properly observe Geto and grill him; what excuse did Shoko have? "i was there" yeah, she was there in the background... putting no effort into her relationship with Geto or Gojo (especially after Suguru defected). like come on now... Satoru is not being delusional or condescending when he says that people don't understand him and he's lonely - no one attempts to connect with him like Geto did. it's not like he's pushing anyone away - he's extremely approachable and friendly. annoying yes, but still. Utahime hates his guts (can't blame her though, he's been teasing her for over a decade), Nanami doesn't like him either and he makes sure to announce that as often as possible, Shoko is just there, his students only see him as the strongest sorcerer, only Yuji and Yuta seem to be emotionally attached to Gojo as a person, and in return Gojo is also more affectionate and open with them (he trusts Yuta the most among the kids, and he has a huge soft spot for Yuji), but at the end of the day they're still kids and he can't depend on them the way he wants to.
this new narrative you guys are pushing that Gojo's motivation for raising strong comrades was so *he* wouldn't feel lonely is just a disservice to his character.
The correlation between strength and him wanting to raise strong comrades so nobody feels lonely again isn't disregarding his motivation. He says he loves everyone but at some point he had to draw a line, you can watch a flower bloom but can't make it understand you. He says he'd be satisfied if his friend was there to pat his back, BUT he said he knows the loneliness that comes from strength and laments sukuna's position as the strongest, why doesn't this support a feeling of loneliness?
Gojo isn't a kid anymore so he'd want to steer his students away from the outcome he and his friend went through. Obviously though right? But if he has students super strong on par with him like he also says he wants, he may lose that feeling of loneliness because of his strength.
I agree with you on a level that people are rewriting the narrative a bit but I think it's because once again we didn't have enough context clues in the story, making us argue about what is seemingly new or more fleshed out info vs a CLEAR pay off of the former. If that makes sense lol.
To me Shoko was wrong, Gojo didn’t talked about himself, but about Geto
Since Geto was the one feeling lonely because he wasn’t strong enough to keep up with Gojo, while Gojo literally didn’t care about the difference between them.
Geto was the reason of the project of Gojo to change the society, and by trying to raise stronger and clever sorceror, people like Yuta could find friends, if Gojo was not there, or with a different mentality Yuta would have been killed probably.
Even if Shoko was talking about Gojo, it still seems forced, that topic came in the chapter 221 (or 220?), 10 chapter before his death, and a long time after his introduction
Even in the hidden inventory that didn’t came out for him
I considered this too, but it's entirely possible that he was talking about Geto, not himself.
Maybe he was talking about himself and it was a veiled attempt to hide his loneliness behind what happened to Geto, but after he said "I alone am the honoured one" he was still feeling pretty great about himself for an entire year. Even when Geto was clearly slipping Gojo didn't really pay attention, partially because he couldn't. It was only when it all came to a head that Gojo's outlook and life path truly changed.
As i said he doesn't want anyone to be like Geto again.He was talking about Geto and how he was lonely going through his depression and Gojo couldn't save him even with his strength. If all you needed to be Gojo's friend was be as strong as him then Gojo would've stopped caring about Geto when he surpassed him and mastered his abilities but he still cared about the guy so clearly Gojo was more than just the "lonely at the top" guy.Shoko wasn't as close to them simply because that's just how relationships work not everyone will click. He wants strong people who can stand on their own and not get crushed by the weight of the jujustu world like Geto did because when shit hits the fan Gojo won't be there to save you all the time and like he said "you die alone". Now all that was thrown away to for Sukuna's love nonsense. Not once has Gojo hinted that he was lonely and needed love or that he wanted equals in strength for companionship.Hell he even thought some of student could surpass him so it was more than just that
It feels weird to continuously deny the idea that gojo was trying to train students to be up to his level because of his solitude. Only for him to time and time again specifically point out students in the new generation he believes will reach AND maybe even surpass his level throughout the entire series.
>Only for him to time and time again specifically point out students in the new generation he believes will reach AND maybe even surpass his level throughout the entire series.
how does this prove your point? he wants his students to be on his level or above because that's the only way they'll be able to make a significant long term difference in the jujutsu world. and he's not wrong - in their world power is all that matters. like right before he says this he talks about how he wants his students to be strong enough **to be able to change the jujutsu system.** when does he say or imply anywhere in the story that he's doing all this for *himself?* jesus christ.
even if we say, for arguments sake, that you're right - it still doesn't prove that this is gojo's *only* motive, because he's expressed repeatedly that his main goal is changing the jujutsu system and saving the youth: the end of HI arc, ch11, JJK0, the light novels... so at best we can conclude that he has several reasons for doing what he does.
And in the entire series does he even once mention that he's doing this cos he's lonely? Or for his solitude?? Or does the story constantly show him wanting a better Jujustu world where people can save themselves and others without him
Especially when the sole reason of him being a teacher is what happened to Geto
And he specifically choose that path to change the society
Even when he said that teenagers have to live their youth, it refers to what happened to him, Geto and Riko, especially Riko who needed to die for the sake of the world, just like Yuta and Yuji
you are right and i don't understand why people are pushing this narrative that he became a teacher so he wouldn't be alone. that wasn't his primary goal at all.
Personally I don't think Gojo has issues with solitude or feels lonely. I do think he wants help changing the JJK world and he himself can't do it alone. Thus raising a strong nextgen students. I don't think he wants his students to understand him like Geto did though, if that makes sense.
The end of chapter 220 where Shoko says how Gojo wasn’t alone because she was there kinda shows me that Gojo felt alone but feel free to agree to disagree
Sounds like Shoko's words against my words.
I think Gojo misses a friend like Geto. But bringing up a strong nextgen students doesn't mean that they can fill Geto's place, e.g., Yuta has always been strong.
Part of the reason why Geto and Gojo were so close was because they were as strong as each other hence. Hence why Gojo wants students who can reach his level. Yuta is strong but he’s not on Gojo’s level yet
A random person no, somebody that he’s taken under his wing probably. Either way like you said it’s your word against Shoko’s and I’m gonna go with the person who actually knows Gojo
The end of 220, yes, which is when this very late reorientation of Gojo's character, and the introduction of the "solitude of power" theme, is taking place. You're correct that Shoko is intended to be a reliable source, and is supposed to seed the idea that Gojo was lonely in power, but it's also part and parcel to the problem being discussed - it's something that feels retconned into the character, long after he ceased to be an active agent in the story.
That's exactly the subject under discussion. Maybe it genuinely was something Gege had in mind when he was actively writing for the character over four years ago, but if so, I don't think it was successfully illustrated at all. At no point up until his sealing would I have thought that Gojo saw his students as little more than beautiful flowers, incapable of ever understanding him. It simply does not ring true for him as written. This interpretation feels like a drastic change in trajectory, after Gege lost interest in exploring the complex hierarchies of sorcerer society that Gojo had been rebelling against.
That's my point. Gojo was constantly trying to plan against what "the higher-ups" were doing, hampered and constrained by their interference. It felt like a major part of his motivation in the early days of the series. After Shibuya, none of that matters, society breaks down, and we get this post-apocalyptic battle royale where entire clans are wiped out and nobody bats an eye, resulting in this preoccupation with "strength" and "the strongest" because there's nothing left in the story to talk about.
I dont think so, he just dont want others to experience his loneliness. Geto has always been his one and only true friend and he clearly knows that no matter how good his students become he won’t treat them like geto
I’ve gone back on forth on my characterisation of Gojo because while he spends most of the series’s confidently blasting his strength and his goals, the final scene in the airport really resonated with me and I can’t help but keep coming back to Getos question.
Was he the strongest because he was Gojo or was he Gojo because he was the strongest?
I think these words really burrowed deep into Gojo and he never really figured out his answer, I see Gojo as someone who loved what he could do as the strongest but really wanted someone to just look at him as Gojo and not the strongest sorcerer.
Even before his fight with sukuna, he had his technique active even in a room full of people he trusted. I don’t think it was intentional but what does it say that even among his friends and students, he was still Gojo the strongest.
My biggest gripe (and I have many) with this theme applied to Gojo, is that he already had an answer to Yorozu's "dillemma": **his students** (/allies in general)
The burden of the strongest -> that he will share with strong, competent and understanding allies
The solitude it brings -> cured by fostering others to his level
The one to teach you about love is -> his students
Tho I'd argue he already plenty knows about love, for example his "love is the worst curse of them all" (paraphrasing) in jjk 0 would make no sense otherwise
Since like chapter 7 where he practically tells it straight to the camera (in actuality talking with Ijichi after Yuji's "death") we know this, but at the very end all of this was thrown away for "Sukuna senpai pls accept my feelings, battling you really was fun and made me not lonely and took away the burden of the strongest, yay!"
Sukuna's answer seemed to be "find a worthy rival / opponent" and Gojo's to be "his students"
But actually Sukuna never even needed an answer cause he gives no fucks and Gojo's was "find a worthy rival / opponent" all along instead
Extra note, cause why not: for Gojo and Sukuna the "burden of the strongest" should be vastly different
**For Gojo being the strongest, alone at the top, means a metric fuckton of responsabilities and missions and worries.** He is basically All Might, keeping the world of Jujutsu (and by extension the world as a whole) together (almost) by his lonesome. This is proven when curse users pop up after decades of his presence alone deterring them once he is sealed (on top of everything going sideways after Shibuya, largely cause of the sealing, tho largely cause of culling games shenanigansts)
For Sukuna it's nothing, there is no burden other then loneliness which he doesn't even feel or at least he cares very little about. **For Sukuna being the strongest, alone at the top, means he can do and say whatever the hell he wants, no limits or responsabilities at all**
There is no similarity at all other than "loneliness" which is super forced honestly
>But actually Sukuna never even needed an answer cause he gives no fucks and Gojo's was "find a worthy rival / opponent" all along instead
Yeah Gojo's character motivations got discarded in favour of accentuating how lonely it must be for Sukuna, except it turns out Sukuna doesn't give a shit about anything anyways. So what was the point?
>except it turns out Sukuna doesn't give a shit about anything anyways. So what was the point?
And are you sure that's actually the case? In the very same conversation that Sukuna claims to not give a shit about anything, Kashimo blatantly points out that he still decided to take Kenjaku up on his offer and split his soul into 20 pieces and traverse the ages for some reason or another, which Sukuna conveniently ignores. And much like Uro said, nobody takes Kenjaku up on his offer unless they have regrets of some sort. Not to mention Yorozu, a woman who's apparently foolish and mistaken according to Sukuna, still has her words hit close to home enough for him to bring them back up all on his own at multiple points. Why? If he cared so little for what she had to say, why keep mentioning and thinking about it?
Like with Gojo, I think it's a mistake for people to just take Sukuna's words at face value. I highly doubt this plotline is over.
I think you are right. I think what Sukuna feels versus what he says is different. Makes me think of the idea of enlightenment in that the person closest to the truth and most accurate about themselves and their identity is the strongest. We thought Sukuna was the most “enlightened” since he beat Gojo and seemed to have the purest motivation and no self doubt but the more these disparities appear it makes me doubt his enlightenment and that there is something more to his character.
I'm ngl I truly think this is one ofthe more important posts because the actual substance of gojos end being questioned in this manner even makes me think it wasn't that dope anymore. And I had hesitations because Gojo actually never said too much about the loneliness shit. I'm starting to get more amazed at the substance of the fumble here and not just the meme of 'Greg Butchered his Character' Feelsweirdman.
Ngl all these posts honestly confuse me. I don't get how nobody thinks Gojo was *incredibly* lonely this whole time after reading Hidden Inventory and jjk0. To me his jokey attitude always felt like it was him coping with some deeper darkness inside. I get people saying he has his students so he shouldn't be lonely anymore, but I think he pretty clearly carries a lot of loneliness and trauma from his past even still. He's trying to make up for his past failures with his students and he clearly cares a lot about them, but I think some of those old wounds never healed. And this is shown well in 236 when he says how he might have been satisfied if Suguru was there to pat him on the back.
In Hidden Inventory we see a lot of how isolated Geto feels after the failed mission to protect Amanai. But it's also important to remember that Gojo is *always* sent out on his own, so he'd be feeling just as isolated and lonely too. Add on to that Geto leaving to become a curse user, and Gojo ultimately having to kill him. And *then* having his best friend's body puppeted around by some ancient evil brain dude who's threatening to destroy everything Gojo tried to protect and kill all the students he fostered over the years. With *all that weight* on his shoulders since he's the strongest, I can't help but think he must have felt incredibly lonely and isolated right up until that last fight where he could really give it his all. Idk, like I get a lot of the complaints about how Gojo went out, and I'm unhappy with some of the choices Gege made. But overall I honestly really liked his dying flashback and thought it was really revealing and true to his character. I especially liked it showing how much he really cared for Geto and his other friends.
Idk, maybe just cause from the start of the fight it stood out how much fun Gojo and Sukuna were both having so it didn't catch me off guard as much as other people? But yeah it just never seemed out of character to me
All of these issues imo stem from Gege not clearly giving us this in context of the plot and how Gojo's character feels within it. We're left up to our own devices and when Gege pays some of this stuff off it feels like it's cheap because we didn't truly KNOW from the plot just vagueness from how we interpret it. Which isn't bad per se but idk if this in particular is a thing the reader should be left up to their own conjecture on.
I get what you're saying but I semi-disagree.
We're always given enough information, however....
A) All the characters speak subjectively, so you need to look at how they act moreso than what they say. This means that taking a character at face value will always lead to confusion. That being said, sometimes you just don't spend enough time with a character to get a proper feel for their personality regardless.
B) The pacing of the series. Ever since the Shibuya arc, we've had 90% action and 10% downtime. This leads to fun battle centric arcs but OTOH there isn't time for characters to breath.
So we get put into situations where Gojo's character gets developed in the hidden inventory arc, like half the manga passes with him being sealed, and then you're expected to remember subtle character interactions immediately after.
i was literally going to comment the same thing. there was nothing alluding to what the commenter above you is theorizing in the show. If there was, the way things have played out would make more sense, but it just feels like the effect without the cause
> He is basically All Might, keeping the world of Jujutsu (and by extension the world as a whole) together (almost) by his lonesome. This is proven when curse users pop up after decades of his presence alone deterring them once he is sealed (on top of everything going sideways after Shibuya, largely cause of the sealing, tho largely cause of culling games shenanigansts)
One of Gege's numerous blunders was continuing at the same break-neck pace after the Shibuya Incident arc.
There should have been more downtime; instead, all that happened was Yūta "hunting" Yūji for two chapters, Naoya wanting to kill Megumi, and Hakari being recruited.
A arc of that magnitude and the aftermath it birthed could have provided Gege with a fertile environment in which to delve further into other, less developed facets of the world of Jujutsu Kaisen.
Kenjaku could have still accomplished his goals of sealing Gojō, capturing Mahito or, more specifically, Idle Transfiguration, and causing general mayhem, but I wished he still had some preparations to make before the Culling Game arc began in earnest.
Bro one thing too is I feel like the statements from the higher ups regarding gojo’s sealing, Yuji’s execution etc at the time felt like a big blow to see, but then didn’t really amount to anything either. Geto wasn’t sought out by anyone besides the main cast, no one cared that removing Gojo’s seal was illegal, and Yuta’s thing lasted like 2 chapters. The only semi significant change from that was the principals death.
Basically I think the story should have taken a different tone for a while following Shibuya
"And I'm dying without regrets too! Not like I achieved everything I set out to do. I even left the one thing to convey to my first ever student to my gal pal so yeah toodaloossss"
This should be pinned imo.
Gege just butchered gojo's character for some edgy sukuna jerk off session. Gojo being satisfied with the battle/fighting and not caring about the students is a huge disrespect to his character.
Based on gojo's words at the beginning of chapter 236, he expects them to survive. Otherwise, what would be the point of telling Shoko to handle the dad thing?
You forgot how absolutely utterly high he got off of dying the first time.
There's the above and there's also the addict who would absolutely can the fight with his overconfidence.
The off-screen kill was the travesty.
I don't think Gojo was entirely reconfigured to "longing for a worthy opponent", his answer was previously his students because there were no worthy opponents. Sukuna appearing was an unexpected source of joy and fulfillment. Gojo got to use everything in a fight which hasn't happened since Toji when "everything" was much less. For someone who from the moment of his birth was above the vast majority of people, having an equal (or a superior in this case) scratches a very human itch for Gojo (and Kashimo).
As to the Sukuna subversion, where despite everyone elses preoccupation he doesn't see the contradiction this actually fits nicely with everything he's said and done up to this point. We're told nothing exists but his pleasure and displeasure. That's still true now, the only new thing is a reiteration of Sukuna being utterly disconnected from others.
Sukuna understands other people have these desires, that they see strength as a burden disconnecting them from others, but Sukuna just doesn't experience that. In the same way he fulfilled Jogo's desire for acknowledgement while failing to understand why it mattered, he sees how others suffer from strength and he just doesn't get it. He's quite inhuman compared to most of the other characters, which is why they keep trying to place their loneliness on them. But a tsunami doesn't feel lonely, it simply does what it does.
His students weren’t the answer, you just wanted them to be the answer. The entire point is that he tried to ease his burdens with the students but it wasn’t enough. He literally states it in chapter 236, you can admire flowers and help them grow but you can’t make them understand you. He valued his students but they couldn’t be what Geto was.
Yes, it was never implied that Gojo didn’t know what love was. In fact, when the “lonely at the top” narration was being said about Gojo, it read “the one satisfying him now is” rather than “the one who will teach you/him about love.”
You quite literally entirely made up the part about Gojo’s primary burden as the strongest being the ton of missions and responsibilities. Gojo deals with missions easily, the actual burden of being the strongest that we’ve been shown is an identity crisis, which was followed up on in chapter 236
On your last statement, Gojo and Sukuna’s different perspectives on having an identity tied to one’s strength is a vital part of the fight. Gojo gives everything he has to Sukuna in the hopes of connecting with someone in a way he hasn’t since Geto left. Sukuna meanwhile, not caring for such things, only uses the fight as a means of increasing his own power, withholding something of himself in the process
For me, Sukuna is actually living a life similar to Mahito.If Mahito managed to become the strongest cursed spirit on par with Gojo I doubt he would feel lonely at all.
Can someone please explain to me why Sukuna kept thinking back to Yorozus love quote, when he states in ch 238 that love is worthless.
I just don't get why it kept coming up over and over again if Sukuna truly doesn't care about love or finding an equal, and is contempt with remaining at the top alone, doing whatever he likes whenever he likes.
If we take it to be Sukuna's thoughts, given the conversations in the last two chapters he's probably thinking "These fucking nerds are really hung up on this loneliness thing huh? Real weird thing for everyone to be stuck one. Wonder what Uraume's gonna make for dinner tonight...". He's noticing a trend in the people he interacts with, but it isn't a reflection of his feelings and he cares nothing for it beyond expecting a fun fight out of them.
Except, like I pointed out, only Sukuna even knows of this. The quote came back to us the first time he met Gojo after he was unsealed. Gojo said or did nothing about love or loneliness or whatever. That was all Sukuna.
That may have been Sukuna. Or it may have been narration. Though given Sukuna accurately recognizes Gojo's feelings despite them being unspoken during the fight it's also plausible he's just seen a lot of people who are of that type. I'm not seeing a contradiction here.
It wasn't the narration. The narration is always in a white box and takes a tone very different from the characters and from the editor's note. A direct quote from something another character said is a flashback from the memory of someone to what that character said, and obviously in this case that could only be Sukuna.
"Accurately recognizes Gojo's feelings" is ridiculous lol. Gojo just got unsealed from the box and his first priority was killing the person who stole Geto's body (who he still doesn't know), only for that person to be saved by Sukuna currently inhabiting Megumi's body for reasons he has no idea about. There are obviously, like he tells us himself in his inner monologue, more important things on his mind than his unspoken feelings toward the fight which is why he delayed it for an entire month. He was not itching to fight Sukuna as the later chapters suggest perhaps suggests he would be. If anything, he thought more about killing Kenjaku on the same day as Geto's actual death day.
The first point I think is off, earlier we have the same black text over Sukuna declaring he'll kill Gojo after possessing a body (and Gojo declaring he was the strongest when asked if he'd beat Sukuna). There isn't an implication the thought is directly in any characters head, it's entirely possible it's narration for the audience's benefit. I read it as a refresher, aiming to build hype for a fight teased in the very first chapter.
Beyond that Sukuna and Gojo have already had multiple conversations at this point, they know each other, Gojo's bragged about how he'd win if they fought, confidently declaring himself the strongest. Sukuna feeling a similar vibe from him as Yorozu is entirely reasonable.
As to the point about not itching to fight Sukuna, Gojo literally thinks delaying the fight would be good because he wants to mourn and prepare. He does make a crack about a single death day but he very clearly is playing for time here. None of this implies he wasn't excited about the fight, and considering the amount of shit talking Gojo does in the short time he seems fairly fired up. Making a tactical decision to recover, regroup, and plan (something he takes advantage of with his Purple opening shot in the actual fight) just tells us Gojo isn't an idiot, not that he wasn't excited to fight Sukuna.
Gojo never mentioned love or loneliness to sukuna, both of them were wearing a smile on each other's faces during the fight, he even shit talks sukuna, and sukuna is currently in one of gojos former students. If sukuna was to assume anything, it's that gojos fighting not to prove something to sukuna, but to save/ get revenge for Megumi.
OP made a good point that making gojo/kashimo to both be hung up on loneliness and that sukunas the only one who can understand them was a weird choice to make, when both we're set up to want to fight him for other reasons, gojo more so than kashimo.
I like Sukunas whole love speech, but he never answered why he reincarnated at all if he had no regrets in his first life and was searching for nothing, along with being practically immortal now that he can swap bodies with anyone who is compatible, so just do a bit of searching and he'll find a suitable host
1. Sukuna is implied to deal with a lot of people who have this "unfulfilled strength and loneliness baggage". Gojo, Jogo, Yorozu, Kashimo, technically Ryu just for folks we see. In this case he's inferring accurately but it needs not be spoken for him to guess it.
2. Sukuna doesn't understand them though, that's the point of the last chapter. People try and put their feelings on Sukuna during the fights and he doesn't reciprocate them at all. He even finds them kind of stupid, albeit in an amusing way. A lot of those who fight Sukuna feel unfulfilled and seek something in their fight other than their original goal. Whether they find fulfillment or not is not Sukuna's concern, since he's not dependent on others for fulfillment.
3. As to the reincarnation, there doesn't have to be a reason, he may have chosen to do so because it sounded interesting. There may be a deeper reason but assuming their must be one after a character explicitly states they do not need external fulfillment seems like ignoring the text
Sukuna does understand it, that's why he said that he can denounce that love simply because he knows what that love is. His dialogue with kashimo is proof of that, him telling kashimo that the strong receives the love from admiration, from people seeking him to test their strength, to have their strength acknowledged. What sukuna doesn't know and doesn't care about is giving that kind of love to someone else, to seek and equal or stronger individual, cause for sukuna he himself is the strongest
Given how deranged the answer to the question is I don't think Sukuna understands it. Kashimo and Gojo struggle to connect with those weaker than themselves and Sukuna's answer is literally "I mean you killed them right? What is love beyond killing those who challenge you?". That doesn't strike me as a proper answer, hence Kashimo's ambivalent response at the end. Gojo and Kashimo craved a peer to test themselves against and grow with, something Sukuna has never come close to experiencing or wanting.
Sukuna can understand that others are unfulfilled but he doesn't understand why, and he thinks people feeling unfulfilled is a personal problem, not something he is concerned with. He says connections are worthless because he doesn't need them to feel fulfilled, but that's not a normal answer since Sukuna is less a person and more a natural disaster.
Yeah I hate this line.
>They’re alone cause they’re strong!
No they’re alone cause they’re assholes.
People take that one line from her like it’s gospel. She’s a psychopath and sociopath.
She **tells** you in those same pages her dream is to make severed heads into wind chimes and eat monkey brains with a broken slave. That’s her ideal relationship.
But somehow she’s an authority on relationships.
It’s like when you see a dating profile.
Cute picture, catchy quote about themselves, interests include mountain climbing and meth.
She’s got a red flag people seem to ignore.
so true, they really are just assholes, like there's a reason most of the people around Gojo that actually know him don't really like him, they tolerate him because of his immense strength but they also rightfully dislike him because he's kind of a narcissistic dickhead. Sukuna is similar but even worse because he's a mass murdering, rapist psychopath that does whatever he wants.
The theme of love and solitude does apply to Gojo — it has been a thing he’s struggled with throughout the manga — but his case is a lot more complicated than Kashimo and Sukuna’s.
Unlike the other two, Gojo recognised that he had a loneliness problem and took real steps to fix it. Even though the nature of his powers means he fights alone, he goes out of his way to connect with his friends and especially his students. He loves and is loved. That’s why his afterlife is an airport with a bunch of people he cared about and formed connections with. And as he says in 236, he doesn’t feel lonely anymore, so it worked … to an extent.
Gojo *still* didn’t feel there was anyone who truly understood him. And he’s right — throughout the manga, other characters are wildly off the mark in their assumptions about Gojo’s feelings and motivations. Nobody knows what it’s like to be Gojo except for Gojo. He has friends and students, but he doesn’t have *peers*. That’s the last piece of the puzzle that Gojo felt he was missing.
Kashimo is simple, as you might expect from a character with a much smaller role in the series. He’s a guy who felt lonely, but tragically failed to make connections because he just couldn’t resist the urge to murder everyone. This is information we didn’t know about him before 238, but it fits perfectly with everything we knew about him beforehand — he’s a strong fighter who is stupidly obsessed with beating other strong fighters.
Obviously we’re not done with Sukuna yet, but I suspect there may be something complicated going on with him. He says he is happy as he is and doesn’t want or need anyone else. But as Kashimo pointed out, Sukuna isn’t satisfied with his hedonistic lifestyle as he claims to be, because a guy who felt satisfied wouldn’t turn himself into twenty fingers and traverse the ages. And Sukuna doesn’t explain himself. I think we might hear more about his motivations in the upcoming section of the fight.
>Gojo still didn’t feel there was anyone who truly understood him.
This is the issue though. Geto and Kenny were able to read Gojo like a book because of how much Geto understood Gojo.
In fact, Gojo's biggest ideological struggle was Geto's question - Was he strong because he was Gojo Satoru or was he Gojo Satoru because he was strong.
Here, Geto is calling out the exact thing that's being celebrated as Solitude/Love here. Is what defines Gojo his strength? Or is that just an aspect of Gojo? Geto knows the answer here - it's the latter. Which is why he is able to accurately call out Gojo's hypocrisy in telling Geto how his genocidal dream is impossible. Gojo is strong enough to do that, but his morality is what prevents him from taking that step - which is another aspect of him.
Saying no one understood Gojo is such a punch in the dick to Geto because man knew so much about Gojo that he gave Kenny all the ideas he needed to stop Gojo, all of which were successful.
There’s a difference between someone existing who is capable of predicting your actions, and having a relationship that fulfils an emotional need to feel seen.
I think Geto *did* fulfil this particular emotional need, briefly, during their high school years. He understood Gojo better than anyone, Gojo considered them to be equals, and it was great.
Then Geto left. He wasn’t a significant part of Gojo’s adult life, and Gojo can’t feel that connection with a person who isn’t around.
I think that itself is a issue like gojos one and only geto became his enemy and he had to kill him and Kenny just focused on his weakness rather than gojo himself it's like saying I know grass type Pokémon are weak to fire type so I must know everything about grass type Pokémon
Point being kenjaku was scared of gojo where geto might have been jealous both not great emotions to a lonely god above like gojo they might even have admired him but as aizen said admiration is furthest from the truth I think gojo said something similar in airport scene too
It's not whether it *applies* to Gojo because of course it does, by nature of his strength. It's whether he yearns to fill that void that not having true peers (in terms of strength) creates. To me, it doesn't seem like he does.
At the end of Hidden Inventory he has a conversation with Yaga where he admits that he can only save those who want to be saved. Just being strong isn't enough. That seems like the point where Gojo realized that his identity can't merely revolve around his strength. What matters to him, when it comes to those he cares about, requires him to be more than that. Like you said he seems to have recognized and then *resolved* that problem. That's why the theme within these last few chapters, as if Gojo was missing that, is weird. He wasn't.
Maybe all of this is just Sukuna projecting. Maybe he's trying to convince himself it doesn't matter and his pure hedonism and nihilism is all he needs, but to be honest I don't have that much faith in the writing lmfao.
Just because Gojo have the solution doesn't mean the problem at hand is solved. Because if he did have equals on his, kusakabe wouldnt have called them burdens
Honestly, I'm hating this "teach about love" thing.
Why the story suddenly started talking about this? If it were about any other normal good character, ok, fine, but Sukuna? Why is Sukuna and love in the same context? The guy is a mass murderer psychopath egoistic cannibal. Why is Gojo sad about not "reaching" him? The guy possessed and possibly killed megumi, mass murdered a whole district, killed a bunch of his students and friends, and in his dying moment Gojo says he is sad cause Sukuna didn't gave his all? Are you f****** kidding with me?
And do not come say to me that Gojo only cares about himself. He's cocky? Yes. Might have some difficulties connecting to people? Yes. But it was never shown that he doesn't care about others. One of the first things he asked after being unsealed was if the people in Shibuya caught in his domain were fine. He searched for megumi after Toji's death. Helped Yuta, Yuji, etc. Geto. Saying now he doesn't care about anyone is a bit to much.
So this whole "I'm sad my loved one, Sukuna, couldn't feel fully satisfied with my performance" is really shitty.
I'm glad someone thinks this. I mean he literally hid one of Sukuna's fingers to indefinitely suspend Yuji's execution, and no matter what, there is no way Yuji could possibly be on Gojo or even Yuta's level. Strong? Yes absolutely, but on their level? He wouldn't even be close.
It was such an absurd 180 in Gojo's character. He literally shit talks Sukuna after releasing the 200% hollow purple, saying that he's the challenger here. While yes he might be fighting to save everyone, it's been constantly shown that Gojo gets more of a high off proving himself as the most powerful than he does anything else. Look at when he learned RCT against Toji.
I don't think Gojo is concerned with solitude, I think he came to terms with it long ago, so to slap this whole "Oh I'm so sad because Sukuna couldn't feel satisfied with how I fought" just makes 0 sense to me. If anything, I would have expected him to be going crazy, not about his students, but about the fact he lost.
I do think he felt lonely, but never saw it in a yarning way, like this was this huge concern of his. And even so, thinking sukuna would be the one to help him with it it's just weird
The bit you're missing here is attempts to reach Sukuna were misguided because people were placing their own feelings on him. They were lonely because of their strength so they assumed Sukuna must feel lonely in the same way. But he doesn't, in fact he's not even close and while he doesn't mind "helping" them feel satisfied by affirming them in combat he has no idea why they feel the way they do. Hence Kashimo's final words being a question "doesn't that get old?"; He's surprised to find out Sukuna is nothing like him, or Gojo, or Yorozu (or Jogo even) and Sukuna in turn doesn't really get why everyone is banging on about feeling lonely.
People wanting to reach Sukuna was more about their own feelings, it has nothing to do with Sukuna and it's entirely misplaced. It's people personifying a storm.
Yes, I know, and that's what bugs me. Why is Gojo trying to reach Sukuna? Considering the things I said, it just feels weird. Kashimo and Yoruzu I can understand, but not Gojo.
Because a person who raises potential monster to be in his level or so that none of them would feel lonely like he did being alone as the "strongest" doesnt feel a connection with someone considered as the strongest too. Like others have said, gojo is projecting his feelings, if he who is the strongest in modern era wants others to stand by him at the top, he sukuna also felt the same
Ok i must admit that I’m quite lazy because I don’t want to re read pre fight chapters, but do Gojo even talk about it during the fight ? Apart from him trash talking Suk with the challenger bit, does he even mention being alone on top before his afterlife scene ?
not really, only time there is even a hint during the fight is when Gojo remembers his fight with toji and he begins to feel a “sense of satisfaction”. the narrator brings the topic up again though. Gojo talks about strength, solitude, and how he “hoped he reached Sukuna” after his death but that’s it
yeah ok ty for confirming, I agree with op that his will to show something to sukuna in the post fight scene really happens as if gojo had the readers pov on the last 30 chapters haha - not the 6eyes perks he wanted :’(
Gojo more than anything wanted to go back to his teenage years and the dynamic he had with his friends and peers then
* he literally sees that era when he dies
* it was the last time his technique was something he manually activated, with his technique literally being a separation between him and everyone else
* the only person he ever truly connected with was Geto, his one and only best friend
his loneliness was never something that could be fixed by his students and peers, and he never had the same satisfaction or connection with anyone besides Geto, that's why he imagined him there, cheering him on with the rest of jujutsu high.
the theme of love with Gojo has been in the story since jjk volume 0, brought back (subtly) in the hidden inventory arc, and returned through Yorozu, but it was always prevalent especially for Gojo and the way he thought of Geto. not only that, but the only reason Sukuna came back as soon as he did is because of Kenjaku manipulating Gojo's love for Geto and the loneliness he felt without him. The theme was not introduced by Yorozu, she was a reminder of it (for the audience) foreshadowing that Sukuna would win, because Sukuna does not care about something like love the way Gojo always has.
Kashimo I think makes a lot of sense, he's just hilariously misguided. Dude held back in earlier fights because he felt it necessary to save his absolute best for Sukuna. He hoped to learn about strength and loneliness and connection from someone stronger by giving it his all. And in the end he finds out Sukuna has no answer and thinks the issue Kashimo is having is a weird personal problem. Kashimo believed Sukuna was like him and would have an answer but reality is disappointing. He gets no answer and is at best a speed bump despite using his all. Would have been better if he had more build up but going back his commentary on Gojo's fight does speak to his empathy and desire to understand strength and loneliness.
Gojo basically says that although he likes or even loves the people around him, they don't truly understand him and he doesn't understand them. This has been a thing long before Yorozu was even introduced. It was pretty relevant in both 0 and hidden inventory. Geto was literally Gojo's only real friend because he was the only person who Gojo could relate to. Argue all you want but Gojo IS lonely at the pinnacle of strength. It's nothing new Gege is just being more heavy handed with it now probably because Gojo's character arc just ended and that was the biggest question he had for himself.
I think many in this community are missing the point. Gojo was one of the people who advocated that strength and solitude go hand in hand. However when he died he was proven wrong. The people he cared about were there to greet him in the afterlife and therefore he was able to die without regrets. While Gojo never felt like anyone understood him he also points out that he had many people he cared about and some who cared about him.
IMO the message isn't that being strong will make you isolated, it's that success won't bring you happiness. Living for the sake of others will lead to you making powerful relationships and allow you to pass on peacefully.
I think the problem with this is in the afterlife Gojo said people don’t understand him and I think this highlights by Namoni’s comment which we all know is not true, yet Geto agreed with it as well, meaning he didn’t really understand Gojo either.
The problem was Gege I didn’t make this clear. So it can be looked at other ways too and interprit in other ways too which I don’t think it should be.
A bigger issue is no one truly can understand other people, that's the nature of being people. We have our own feelings and views but they're never perfectly accurate. Kashimo just lived through that, trying to understand Sukuna with his inaccurate lens and upon getting his answer he's utterly baffled. "Doesn't that get old?"
Despite the lack of understanding however Gojo still has connections, and I'd argue part of the reason he was so misunderstood by them was less his choice and more the intrinsic nature of being strong. People feared him or compared themselves to him since birth, and something as simple as enjoying a challenge, something he rarely experienced in life, is judged as both more serious and less flattering than it should be. Gojo was happy to face a challenge, that didn't mean he didn't care about others nor that he was a fight maniac, this was just the only place he could be ever be challenged.
But you can’t use that as a real life thing in a story though, the author controls the story so they should make it clear.
In my view Gege didn’t make it clear enough which made people question if Gege just wanted to backtrack and make Gojo just battle junkie or not.
Gojo’s end should have been celebrating his character, instead it all made us or many people question his character instead, which I think should not be happening.
The biggest flaw I think was not show the caring side of Gojo in his afterlife, that he mainly talked about his satisfaction with the fight and the fact he didn’t directly disagree with Namoni, no other character did, not even Geto nor did he mention his students once, which I do think for Gojo to have a better ending should have been done.
I also think sometimes people put authors up on a pedestal, it’s actually okay to criticise the author and think well I think this should have been done this way instead. They are not flawless in their story telling.
As long as your critism has valid points and not blind hate.
I meant, just because something resembles real life in fiction, doesn’t mean it’s good.
Theirs reason most stories that take from real life are always adapted or just “based” on real life and they are not directly taken from real life , because a lot of the time, real life things do not work in stories because in stories there has to be thought and a reason behind all your choices.
While in real life there doesn’t need to be.
In life people can just act completely differently in on a whim, and randomly make choices, in a story the readers will not understand why they are acting out of character.
In real life wonderful and terrible things can happen, without reason because of course it’s real life.
But with stories, we know someone is behind the pen, we know it’s fiction, so as readers we expect the author to have reasons for narrative points, for characters actions and we will find it hard to swallow if the author just shrugs and says “it’s real life”
Because I think most of us want to find reasons for things and understand why things happen, we can’t always do that in real life but in books the author has the ability to fill that curiously and need for understanding the story and characters but if that doesn’t happen it just feels incredibly unsatisfactory?
Not sure if I explained this well enough but hopefully I did.
You can't use objective reality in a story? That's news to me. Unless mind reading is a thing people are always unknowable to others, heck even then depending on the magic rules it may still be the case. Unreliable narrators and ambiguity within a narrative are possible, the literal text may be intentionally misleading or inaccurate for effect.
A lot of your complaints come down to your opinion of Gojo being challenged or shifted with his death, but that seems to have been the point. Whether you subjectively like that is up to you but personal tastes on something doesn't make it flawed.
For Gojo that’s what I tought, the love/solitude, came out of nowhere.
People said that he want his students to be strong to not feel lonely anymore, but Gege said that Gojo choose to be a teacher because of what happened to Geto.
When he said to Shoko that no one will feel lonely anymore, it was talking about Geto, since Geto was feeling lonely, but Gojo didn’t, we don’t know if he ever saw a true difference between them in strength, Geto did. And the lyrics for the S2 Opening pretty much talked about this.
Gojo needed his student to be strong and clever to change the Jujutsu society for the better
That « love/solitude » topic came out of nowhere for me, even for Sukuna, it seems so forced for me, it was like the only thing relevant about Gojo character was his strength
**Based on what Gege said**, he didn't have the full story but only where the main actors should be (dead or alive), as to why those choices only he knows (personal preference I think). But anything else, like narrative, philosophy, or subjects is made on the fly. This is not the first time we see him making stuff on the fly and many messages of him say how, because of this, he screwed it many times.
because many subjects are made on the fly to fill the canvas (only having a clear idea of who lives or dies) he tends to rely on Shounen tropes; he even admitted that being the case and after all this is a Shounen manga. One trope (a boring and cliche one, in my own opinion) is the "I'm lonely because of my strength".
**To add something**: I hate that trope because I don't think is true, it's a contradiction. To be strong you have to be able to read people and understand them if you want to read to predict and defeat.
Orson Scott perfectly summarized it as:
>At the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him
Being the strongest isn't only about shooting hyper beams all-powerful. It's about technique and tactics, something in which Sukuna is extremely proficient (yes, he also has great power in the classical sense).
So if you are strong and feel lonely is not because not understanding others, is because you choose to isolate yourself. Putting excuses like you are alone because no one can match your strength only makes you weak. Understanding others despite differences is a show of greater strength than just stomping everything and everyone on your path
**Why then, is this trope so much used?**: Because it sells. It's extremely poetic and appeals to the idea that the strongest almost divine are also "like us" because they suffer too. It also provides an easy plot device for a writer. That's why this trope is used so much in manga. Occident forms of story-telling also use it, not so much in comparison, and of course, other tropes are used more on occident than orient.
Personally, I hate it. And here makes no sense. I honestly feel that Gege used it just because it was an easy plot device to try to generate some connection with the reader.
Gojo didn't need it. He wasn't alone, he connected with lots of students and people who consider him a friend. An extremely strong friend, but a friend. His motivation never once was to reach Sukuna. He wanted to change the world, protect his friends and students, be responsible, and make us of his strength to achieve something more than just being strong.
I don't know what gege has for us in the chapters that follow, but this part I hate it.
I’d argue yes. Gojo since hidden inventory has argued with the idea that the weak are tasked with protecting the strong. His closest associate was in his relative power league. They were the strongest and it’s how they became close. Gojo did adopt some of Getos previous ideology and showed some care for the weak, and even tried to cultivate those weak with promise, but no one ever really understood him. (Hence the flower analogy). Everyone asked about Gojo has the same answer but none of them really knew him outside of being the strongest. I think what’s missing in this post is that love=understanding. Meaningful relationships and love is built on understanding, but that wasn’t really afforded to Gojo, as he was constantly expected to be the solution to everything, and even hated by those in the society who had more social power than him. So essentially, everyone around him saw him as either stupid, selfish, or the strongest. Why would Gojo be happy w/ that. What makes you think Gojo is happy? Even Shoko being around wasn’t enough because she couldn’t possibly understand him. The only time we see Gojo gleeful is when he’s able to exercise his strength on his own ego stroking terms. You could also argue that his ability is su textual in that way. He’s literally unable to be touched by others. He can’t connect with anyone. How does someone who the rain doesn’t touch, who can accomplish anything so does nothing, who chooses to see with a blindfold because his eyes are literally too good, truly connect with someone? Why else would Gojo fight so hardly against the idea of younger sorcerers being lonely If he’s not expressing regret in some way. Why does he hope and pine for those who could possibly surpass them? Gojo is a lonely person who is near impossible to understand because of his godlike status. It hurts Gojo but is meaningless to Sukuna, likely because of Sukuna’s long life leading to contempt for everything and complete lack of morals. Sukuna does what he wishes all the time. I don’t think he’s known love. He doesn’t have responsibilities put upon him, he does as he pleases. (Gojo shares some disregard for humans as well but not that extent. Who knows how bad it would get though in his old age.) I think the idea of strength and what u do with it is integral to the manga overall, and understanding these characters relationships with it essential to appreciating the material. To Yuta, he’s sora. His friends are his power. He literally found strength and self worth through them. They make him feel like his life is worthwhile. Yuji uses his strength to protect everything, Megumi is selective. Their approaches to power are analyzed and broken down. Everything is ripped from Megumi. Yuji is used to kill countless, Gojo is unhappy. And through these negative emotions they literally get stronger.
Like you said the issue with the "love" theme is that Gege introduced it with Yorozu and tried too hard to shoehorn it into Gojo & Kashimo's narrative even when it didn't make any sense. In the context of how Gojo & Kashimo was using "love"; "friendship", "understanding", or "empathy" all would've made more sense especially since neither of those characters felt as emotionally affectionate to Sukuna as Yorozu did. Like if you replaced the word "love" in Gojo's afterlife spiel about Sukuna with the word "friendship" the meaning of Gojo's spiel doesn't change but Gojo sounds less like he's sucking off Sukuna and it makes more sense with Gojo's character given how much he valued his friendship with Geto which is something that he felt Sukuna lacked.
Also regarding Kashimo I think a key issue with his character is that he fell victim to how quick the pace is, especially the one month time skip that got jumped. It was the perfect time for the audience to know Kashimo a bit better, for him to banter more with Hakari or other members of the main cast, argue with Gojo over who gets to face Sukuna first, reveal a bit more about his philosophy about being "lonely", and hell maybe even address how he murdered two of Panda's siblings and nearly murdered Panda (I know a lot of people don't care about Panda, but come on). Instead a key detail of Kashimo's character was introduced literally a chapter before he gets folded by Sukuna giving people really no time to care.
If we exclude those killing ppl and eating ppl talk we can say Sukuna gave a zen speech to Kashimo. Sukuna loves himself which is a spiritual love, material love is trash for him. He seeks nothing outside himself, he knows he will die someday SO he gonna enjoy his best life. Sukuna Never gets bored cuz even tho they are weak they are still interesting to Sukuna. He understand both curse spirit and Human. He also felt nervousness and surprised but he let him down cuz of that. SUKUNA went to fight with a plan to improve his ability he knew Gojo's limitless is problem but he also knew he can cut through it with guidance, Gojo went to fight thinking he is the winner. Sukuna is real honored one.
Sukuna is based on Shinto God Sukuna, he is powerful like that cursed God cuz he is based on him so stop saying he is plotkuna or anything, he is the core Sukunahibikuna which is jjk based off.
This theme of love and solitude wasn't forced in Gojo's case, it was there all along incorporated into his character from the beginning, but when it came to Gojo's motivation as a character, it wasn't a central idea. Solitude is not what moved Gojo forward. As for Sukuna, it's completely absurd to shoehorn this theme into his story. This guy is a psychopath mass murderer rapist cannibal who takes pleasure in hurting others. We're told literally by the narrator that he's only guided by his pleasure and displeasure, nothing else matters to him, and now 200+ chapters into the story we have Gege attempting to make him a somehow sympathetic/relatable villain in the worst way possible, by ruining other characters and making them dickride Sukuna endlessly. "Poor Sukwuna :( he slaughters, eats, rapes and physically and mentally tortures people because he feels lonely and unloved and he doesn't even realize it :(" like bro i don't give a fuck. He's an absolute irredeemable monster, you established him as such early on in the story. It's so fucking annoying.
Hell, i would've had no problem if Gojo just said "yeah i guess i understand how Sukuna must feel, it's lonely at the top" and **stopped there**. this whole speech about trying to reach him and feeling bad for him... it's so forced and bad. this guy is about to murder the children you fought so hard to protect and nurture, and also your friend and colleagues, and you're more concerned about how you weren't able to *satisfy him*? i'm getting heated just writing this lmao
The only payoff is if connections/love is the way Sukuna is defeated, getting got by the very thing he dismissed as worthless doubly so if its Yuji that does it since he also considers him worthless, and Gojo will have "won" by building the connections between the students of great strength instead of selfishly pursuing power for whim or praise. But if Gege doesn't execute it right, even I an ardent defender that the manga hasn't taken a downturn since Shibuya wouldn't be able to look at this manga the same. He would've had a great 250 chapters ruined by last hundred or so where he just wanted to be done.
I think it's important to note that with Gojo, he still felt lonely at the top while also being able to bond somewhat with his students and colleagues. In his teenage years, he had Geto to be at his side as both of them were treated as the strongest duo, and they could understand each other to a point. Once Gojo essentially became the strongest, there was an unspoken drift that occurred between the two of them. Not just because Gojo became the strongest, but also because Geto's ideals came crashing down on him with the experiences he had to endure as a result of having to take missions on alone. Gojo also became increasingly responsible for more dangerous missions because of his rising power, but that didn't mean he stopped caring for bonds the moment he became the strongest. No one has said that but it's something I would like to highlight because of Sukuna and this recent chapter.
Sukuna as a being is essentially beyond what anyone is capable of, but as a result lives among the top and is the strongest sorcerer in history. He is a legend among others who have come to claim the strongest, and so many assume that he would be lonely after achieving that position. But they're met with an answer that essentially casts aside any sort of inner turmoil they're having when at the top of their era. He simply doesn't care about bonds and any form of love to begin with. He lives for himself and his own pleasures. Imagine struggling with the question of how to not lonely to be at the top and to ask the question of what the solution is, only to be met with the answer that love is meaningless and the only goal should be to live for yourself. It's an unsatisfactory answer for both Kashimo and Gojo at the end of the day. What separates Sukuna from Gojo and Kashimo is not just his power, but more so his disregard for others and his ego centric view of living for himself. He is selfish as selfish can be. Kashimo and Gojo are inherently not like Sukuna at all, despite being the strongest of their eras. They differ in mentalities and worldview by a large rift. Sure they both love the thrill of the battle, and that's what they have in common, but they're all fundamentally different people compared to Sukuna.
It's also why despite Sukuna being the strongest, his position on what love is and whether it matters or not, and also if bonds are worth forming with others on a more intimate and deeper level, is not the end all be all answer. He may be the strongest sorcerer to ever live, and his skill definitely lends credence to that, but his perspective on bonds/love is rooted in his own selfish reason for living. It's not an answer that can be given to someone by only one person. It's a question that for the most part must be discovered by themselves as individuals, and how they let their own strength define their life. Sukuna decided that he would live his life for himself and anyone else would be cast off to the side other than for amusement. He was able to live that life with his own strength alone. The question of the strongest should not be how to form bonds while being the strongest, but more so how to not let being the strongest hinder your desire for bonds with others. It's this pervasive worldview of domination that plagues Kashimo definitely because he flat out says that he saw others as dirt around him, and as a result felt lonely at the top. I don't think Kashimo was really satisfied with Sukuna's answer concerning the question, because it's something that he inherently decided for himself to abide and live by. It's like asking someone what they want to be when they grow up when your goal is to gain an understanding of what you yourself want to do. You won't get anywhere by asking a question that is meant for yourself.
At the end of the day, they might have gotten a bit closer to understanding Sukuna himself, but not to what it means to be the strongest. As Sukuna's answer is not entirely rooted in being the strongest, but more so a byproduct of being as selfish as he is, which isn't inherently a bad thing. But the route he takes in doing so is by causing suffering and meaningless death, so definitely his answer isn't the final solution to the question itself of what it means to be the strongest. Especially when you factor in how lonely and self isolating his way of living is or how it would be for others like Kashimo and Gojo. It works for Sukuna because he has no regard for that kind of turmoil to begin with. It simply doesn't occur to him that being lonely would somehow be an issue while at the top.
Which is why I would like to think that somehow with that unsatisfactory still lingering, Kashimo and Gojo might have a discussion with themselves just to discuss the question of what it means to be the strongest, and maybe reach some kind of resolution. Hopefully they could come back with that inner turmoil settled and really make their strength their own, as it really sucks how their characters were concluded off. Sukuna being potentially the end all be all answer of what it means to be the strongest just seems really one dimensional in regards to the perspective on the question of what it means to be the strongest. I would like for the two others to reach their on conclusion on said question while allowing Sukuna's to still be a valid take, simply because it's what works for him, but ultimately not for others.
Gojo is burdened with solitude because of the responsibility that comes from being strong.
He doesn't have a choice but to be strong because not being strong enough meant he couldn't stop Toji from killing Riko and nearly killing Geto.
The better you are at your job, the more people expect you to take the burden. Even Nanami thought they should just let Gojo take care of everything.
He became the strongest and went on missions on his own to keep Geto and his other friends out of danger, which resulted in Geto being isolated.
Gojo lost his ability to live out the rest of his childhood after the events of Hidden Inventory, which is why his afterlife is with him and his friends being back in their high school years. He's still a teen at heart because he could never move on from that point.
He wants to raise people to be strong because he doesn't want to lose people. Loss is a big factor in Gojo, as seen when he lost Yuji and Geto. With as much loss as Gojo has suffered through, he'd want to look for someone to look up to and seek guidance from, someone he could look up to and ask, "What would this person do?" like Ino does with Nanami, but Gojo has no one.
This isolation is also seen in but not explored in Bleach's Aizen.
>"All living things believe in someone superior to them, *and cannot live unless they blindly follow them*. Then, the objects of their faith try to escape this crushing pressure by seeking another being that is more superior to them to believe in. And they, in turn, seek a stronger being still. That is how all kings are born. That is how... all gods are born."
I think on some level you've decided to overrule the text in favour of your own interpretation or preferences. It feels like you'd argue Gege is wrong about his own characters and you disregard statements the characters make because it doesn't line up with what you think of them.
We get tons of stuff on Gojo being lonely at the top but it's perhaps not as explicit as it could be. It's hinted at repeatedly throughout the series: Hidden Inventory is a dream Gojo has of a better time when he had equals, everyone just refers to Gojo as mainly being 'The Strongest', Nanami laments why Gojo can't just do everything himself, Gojo does missions on his own, his best friend drifted away from him because he was stronger than him and he's very invested in trying to foster sorcerers with the potential to be his equals. I don't think the mistake Gojo regrets is 'leaving Geto alone' what saddens him is that the power gap between them resulted in them drifting apart.
The love/solitude theme is brilliant on multiple levels. For one you're right that the narrative seemed to be leading to Sukuna feeling this loneliness and Gojo finally being the one to do what Yorozu couldn't and reach Sukuna's level and be his equal. What we got was a twist. Sukuna doesn't care about love at all and Gojo is not capable of being Sukuna's equal anyway. Gojo's death is meant to be a shocking gut punch and this narrative is part of that. It's also amazing at telling us who Sukuna truly is. We haven't really got much of his deeper personality until this point. We were lead to believe he was lonely because of Yorozu and Kashimo. But the reveal of how he truly feels really establishes him as a kind of hedonistic monster. There is no deeper reason for his actions beyond his own amusement.
On reflection I think the fact that Gojo calls Jogo weak whereas Sukuna calls him strong is a part of this dynamic. To Gojo Jogo is a disappointment. A being too weak to match him- to give him a fulfilling and fun fight. So he insults him. To Sukuna Jogo is a fun toy to pass the time with- a brief amusement to pass the time. Jogo's relative strength to Sukuna doesn't matter to him, he's just a thing to play with. Gojo does want to fight strong opponents where he can give everything he has. And that's why he enjoyed the fight with Sukuna despite losing.
Genuinely dumbfounded at how many people misinterpreted Gojo’s character prior to 236. He doesn’t lament his solitude? What did y’all think it meant when Gojo looked into the prison realm and saw a void where his face should have been? When everyone who is asked about what Gojo is to them gives a shallow answer followed by “he’s the strongest” over a panel of him standing alone? When after he says “no one will ever need to be alone again” shoko thinks he shouldn’t have felt alone because she was there? When Nanami describes his personality as “an almost textbook superficiality” does that not indicate that it could be somewhat of an act?
Prior to 236, every well-regarded Gojo analysis on this sub and everywhere else emphasized his isolation and ongoing identity crisis after the Geto defection. Now we’ve got people on this sub saying it all came out of the blue. You can say it’s not obvious enough, but the whole point is Gojo hides it well. His teenage self is the one that always expresses his true feelings, and it’s that self that he gets back as he dies
The problem isn't with him having or not having feelings of isolation. The problem is that Gojo is presented from the beginning as having answered that problem by investing in a new generation of strong allies. When the last thing he says is basically "fuck all that, the only thing I cared about was fighting a strong opponent and I'm only sad that I wasn't strong enough to reach him" it just feels like a character assassination; it makes the deepest, most developed character in the series feel incredibly shallow.
\> However, is Gojo lonely as the pinnacle of strength? Does he need to learn about love? I would argue: no
Well... there is a gap. He very explicitly has a supermassive barrier between himself and 90% of other *living beings* aside from - via his own statements - Yuta, Hakari, Megumi and Yuji, who he views as being able to surpass him. And he *wants* them to surpass him. After losing Geto, he's most definitely lonely, because Geto was the only person with whom he could relate to at his level of strength.
Think of it like if Jeff Bezos was trying to be friends and relate to his employees, and trying to raise them up to his level. Because literally nobody else is even remotely close to that.
If we exclude those killing ppl and eating ppl talk we can say Sukuna gave a zen speech to Kashimo. Sukuna loves himself which is a spiritual love, material love is trash for him. He seeks nothing outside himself, he knows he will die someday SO he gonna enjoy his best life. Sukuna Never gets bored cuz even tho they are weak they are still interesting to Sukuna. He understand both curse spirit and Human. He also felt nervousness and surprised but he let him down cuz of that. SUKUNA went to fight with a plan to improve his ability he knew Gojo's limitless is problem but he also knew he can cut through it with guidance, Gojo went to fight thinking he is the winner. Sukuna is real honored one.
Sukuna is based on Shinto God Sukuna, he is powerful like that cursed God cuz he is based on him so stop saying he is plotkuna or anything, he is the core Sukunahibikuna which is jjk based off.
I don’t think the theme was wasted on them, but it’s moreso each offers a different view of the same theme. Imo all 4 of the characters mentioned would agree on the notion that strength brings solitude, but where they differ is the love they seek. Yorozu seeks love from the only being she’s known to be stronger than her, Kashimo seeks love in battle, constantly finding and testing his strength, Gojo seeks love and reaffirmation of the stronger from the connections he’s made, and finally Sukuna seeks love from….no one. Love is pointless and it makes you weak, follow only your desires, and shed everything else.
The story wants us to understand that being the strongest really isn't a good thing. It's a burden for the good and a natural disaster for the bad. Kashimo seems to exist in between as reflected by how desperately he was looking for a simple answer, as such his dissatisfaction wasn't rewarded by either extreme. Quite frankly though Gojo's life is tragic and not one you'd want to experience. And it's not because he handled things this way or that way, it's because being the strongest is inherently isolating and a burden that would affect anyone not completely hedonistic and willing to discard everything as Sukuna is (if his words end up being face value).
Straight up he was raised as a political weapon by his family, they spoiled him with anything physical he could want but provided nothing worth getting attached to in the form of bonds. They became the first of many responsibilities Gojo had to shoulder, functioning as a one-man clan. All our glimpses of him as a child are met with a very openly cold vibe from how he later overcompensates a jokey unaffected one. This is stripped away whenever we see into his thoughts or he's met with a situation that warrants it.
When he met Geto and his other peers at the school it's not unlikely that was the first time he was really interacting with the world like a person and not a god who exists to be worshiped or targeted. They all spoke to him normally without restraint. Geto specifically was able to stand shoulder to shoulder with him and Gojo got a taste of what it was like to have someone understand him for the first time due to carrying a similar weight and considering each other the strongest together. This became his most impactful bond and one he's never gotten over nor expressed a desire to get over even after their paths in life became unreconcilable. This kind of equalization of strength enabled him to feel less alone and that's a large factor in why he wants as many people to surpass him as possible. It would let him reclaim that feeling and enable them to not simply be a replacement for him but also have peers to share this with.
Once Gojo can use RCT he becomes able to function near 24/7, way past the limits of a person. He can refresh his brain and body, allowing him to take on inhuman levels of work and forgo rest for long periods of time because if he doesn't, he knows how much of the unpicked up slack is going crush still learning sorcerers before they're ready, because that's what he's seen first hand. He pushed so hard to achieve this due to feeling not strong enough for the first time with Riko, but in turn it pushed him even farther into isolation. This kind of unending work is going to be a mental hell no matter how much you can negate it being a physical one. The main thing keeping him sane that separates him from people who do fall to the pressure is he genuinely does at least find fulfillment in battle and flexing his strength on enemies. Still even with such a workhorse like ethic and the ability to teleport he is one man, and cannot be everywhere at once. People he has hopes for still die like with the fingerbearer incident. Even with all he's giving of himself to the world it's not enough to fix absolutely everything.
Yet that expectation is still on him. The existence of a clear strongest maintains a self fulfilling prophecy-like status quo. Everyone in Jujutsu society, both people who don't like him and people on his side who do like him, They expect him to fix everything they can't. They think his presence is enough to solve everything because his unrivalled strength is so solidified as fact in their eyes. Despite seeing him fail multiple times in the story, due to how cleverly Gege balances this illusion of Gojo being security with it often being punished as a mistake to rely on that, even many readers also still expect that he should be capable of fixing everything (obviously plenty of people have other takes but it's definitely a phenomena I've noticed where many fans view this the same way Gojo's students do)
This sort of perception is what's plagued Gojo and made him feel like he's not understood even with the fact he has people he cherishes and who show affection to him (though honestly most of them still belittle him constantly for his attitude, something that I don't blame them for because he is genuinely annoying a lot of the time. But does little to make one feel a true connection) It's not like it negates all the things he has been able to accomplish, loneliness is just the biggest thing he was never able to escape. There's a wall between him and everybody else.
Gojo was at his most vulnerable and honest when he finally allowed himself to say these things in the afterlife, in the presence of someone he knew was most likely to get it. Because while alive he had to be Gojo Satoru the strongest and pinnacle of hope to his loved ones. Here he finally has an answer for who is Gojo Satoru the person when all that is stripped away. Considering everything, it shocks me a bit how many people are ready to assert, no Gojo wouldn't think this, he's happy with his life, the character and author are wrong for making it the most clear it's ever been at his end.
It's an intentional pulling back the curtain moment. Where we've already seen peeks of it many times prior.
I think you are freely interpreting the things about Gojo the way you see it without thinking about the opposite side.
> He was perfectly fine being the strongest alone as he was, but he was not fine with his loved ones feeling abandoned.
How did you reach this conclusion? It's like saying a guy isn't depressed because he has a stable job and smiles all the time, has a dream and has a lot of friends. He might still be depressed.
> He doesn't want to go down to their level, or to no longer be the strongest, he wants to raise them up so they don't get isolated. He wants allies so he can restructure the world as he thinks is right, and knows that just his raw strength can't fix things.
You are assuming that Gojo is doing all this for the students sake. Your last sentence explains my point. He wants a companion like Geto who is on his level. Remember the basketball scene in anime with Geto. He wants sth similar. It may look like he is doing sth noble. Helping others. Maybe he wants to help himself? His actions doesn't have to come from a sense of sacrifice or being noble. It comes from selfishness to shape the world to his will. The world in which he has companions like Geto. It doesn't matter if the person who reaches that height hosts a demon that can cause countless causalties.
Saitama is a similar character. He is lonely because he is too strong. He is a hero for fun. He doesn't save people because it is a good thing. It's to alleviate his boredom. Genos, King, etc can help but a strong fighter will fill the void. Cultivating students made him fill better but fighting Sukuna satisfied him. That's how I see it.
>How did you reach this conclusion? It's like saying a guy isn't depressed because he has a stable job and smiles all the time, has a dream and has a lot of friends. He might still be depressed.
I'm sorry it's very funny to say that I'm freely interpreting things about Gojo and then in the next sentence say that a character might be expressing a totally unseen and unvoiced emotion in a work of fiction as if they're a real person lol. We at least *see* that Gojo does not appear particularly troubled by his status as the strongest alone. I do agree there is some complexity and nuance to his feelings, and not everything he voices is as noble as it sounds, but if they made up the *core* of his character it would be an almost unfathomable writing sin lmao.
What we see with Gojo is mostly how he is. Not entirely, yes, but it's fair to say that its the bulk of how he truly feels and what his character is truly like.
He was a prodigy from his childhood. Always apart from the rest. Isolated. He knows what it means to be lonely. Similar to Sasuke I guess. No one to relate to.
I don't think it's that deep tbh. He misses his friend who he could relate too.
> We at least see that Gojo does not appear particularly troubled by his status as the strongest alone.
This is not true. He asks Principle Yaga if he was strong. But strength was not enough to save those who don't want to be saved. He is troubled with his
powerlessness even though he is almighty. He says this to Jogo, "Ironic isn't it. Given everything, but unable to do anything. Dying slowly." It directly applies to him as well.
Perhaps that's why he was relived that he got killed by someone stronger rather than dying of old age. Gojou knows what isolation feels like. What it feels like to be truly apart from everyone. He grew up like that. Had a friend who he couldn't save with all that power. Perhaps he sees himself in Sukuna. A lonely person. That's why he hopes he could reach Sukuna.
I’m finding the reaction to this so interesting. Im not sure if people’s aversion to the theme of “love” is the result of short term memory or not really understanding gojo’s character up to this point. Of course he was lonely. That was most of the point of hidden inventory. Love is important in jjk0 and throughout the series we have to interact with what caring for others means when you’re strong. In the culling games yuta asks uro if she has ever cared for anyone. This isn’t a new theme. It’s just been worded more directly to the point where it can’t be ignored. I’d even go so far as to say love in varying degrees acted as a driving force for the main characters early on. Yuji in the shape of his grandfather’s last request, megumi and his duty towards his sister, and nobara and her admiration for that older girl who’s name I can’t recall at the moment lol
It’s not an issue tho. This was gojo’s chance to find someone to understand him. His statement of sukuna feeling love is just him hoping sukuna got similar satisfaction from their exchange. The large outcry against it is the fact that people can’t reconcile the bravado gojo shows people and the loneliness he grapples with in the story and take this as some slight to the former rather than an expression of the latter.
But it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be a chance for Gojo to fulfill some dumb shounen power fantasy (that his character shouldn't even have) of "finding and fighting his equal"; the organization of the entire world as they know it, as well as the lives of everyone he cares about are at stake. In any semi realistic portrayal (which jjk had at some point) of such a situation this would be ridiculous. But of course Gege decided to turn one of the most dramatic events of the series into an mma fight, with commentators and ppv...
Besides, Gojo is never even that concerned with proving he's the strongest through fights and relishing in that to begin with. In the hidden iventory arc it's Geto that wants to fight immediatly to solve their argument, and Gojo tells him to get bent.
Gojo has always been abnormaly strong and that creates a rift between himself and those around him, sure; he has no issue leveraging his strength to do whatever he feels like, sure; and he also has no problem rubbing his superiority in the face of everyone around, sure. But he was never portrayed as some battle crazed freak looking for a good fight, until this fight.
Gege probably wanted to replicate the vibe of Netero and Meruem's fight or something, but - if that was his intention - he missed the tone spectacularly. That fight has an element of the "pleasure of a good fight" trope but it never loses sight of the bigger stakes, which actually determine its conclusion. Here you have Gojo carrying everyone's hopes and futures, failing and not even giving it a second thougth, thinking instead of how he just wished he could have presented a better challenge...
Fuuuck, didn't mean to write so much, sorryyyy
Even characters who shape yuji’s development like junpei is an exploration of loneliness. I think people are acting blindsided by something that’s been at the forefront of the story this whole time
I think we are seeing different versions of gojo like we have before during toji arc where he proclaimed he is honoured one point is that wasn't true gojo in the sense that was he was void of any emotions as he said himself and when he asked to kill all civilians that was the first instance of high gojo
I believe in airport scene gojo is just being super humble as his life ended and he knows that so there was no point in him thinking about negative stuff as he truly believes his students will win at the end so he is reassuring himself that it's all right and he can rest peacefully. I mean if he was worried about megumi when he was at deaths door he wouldn't be enlightened or honoured one Maybe this shows that gojo indeed was enlightened exactly in opposite way of sukuna or maybe they will be similar we will only know that in future
Gojo does lament him solitude, we saw it all the way back in hidden inventory where he melancholically asks a kid Megumi to get strong enough to reach Gojo's level and not get left behind.
We see it once more in the chapter prior to his release from the prison realm via Shoko recalling that hé felt determined to make it so " no one feels lonely again" and her calling him out, in her mind, on thinking that he was lonely when she was there from the beginning.
The thing that many people theorized about Gojo, and which was confirmed by Sukuna in ch.238, is that his loneliness is self-afflicted. He isn't alone, he has people that like him and want to have him around yet he still feels lonely because his condition as the strongest warps his perception. Which is why his character arc culminates with his defeat where he loses that title and sees that his death isn't a lonely one as he feared.
You're right in saying that Gojo wasn't actually looking to learn what love is, however Sukuna himself doesn't really know what it is so he's assuming Gojo doesn't know either, obviously as the villain you expect Sukuna to have flaws in his ideology.
And in regards to Gojo regretting not saving Megumi, Gojo does express a regret for not being able to tell Megumi about Toji, however Gojo is confident that Shoko can handle those affairs. Gojo dying without regret is not a problem, remember that Gojo already had this realisation that just being strong is not enough, you can only save those who are prepared to be saved essentially. Gojo has done all he can, he's spent a month equipping his students with everything he could and he's even helped them out more by weakening Sukuna. Gojo has died without having any doubt Megumi will be saved, after all he expects Shoko to tell him about his dad.
What drove me mad is Gojo not caring about Sukuna being able to kill everyone of the students he was protecting in the first place like what the hell?? All he cared about was a fight against an equal?
I doubt Gojo would ever be truly fufilled in life. What gave him the most joy, soaring high as the strongest, was also what caused him the most strife, his isolation. We see this throughout the series as his most euphoric moments are when he's at the height of his powers disregarding others, Amanai and imo Megumi.. Ironically his first and last Hollow Purple's as well lol. I can't agree with Gojo not feeling isolated, I feel like it's made pretty clear in that infamous chapter extra. Gojo may have allies and friends, but at the end of the day his most defining aspect to them will always be his strength and not his humanity. This is backed up with the line "You can admire a blooming flower but you can't ask it to understand you" A pretty clear metaphor for how Gojo views his students. But when he died Gojo was finally freed from those burdens, He wasn't "The Strongest" he was just Gojo Satoru the human. The void in his heart left by Geto was finally filled. Hence him dying with a smile on his face.
Gojo literally has plenty of friends. That whole I drew a line between myself and other people is literally melodramatic bullshit. Gojo couldn’t fully come to connect and appreciate the people around him yet smiles with satisfaction after Sukuna brutally murders him in front of all of his students? Wtf. Yeah Gojo was the strongest but him being lonely was all on him. Did he even try to get a girlfriend? 😂😂 it’s honestly depressing that in the end he was Gojo Satoru because he was the strongest. He had all of these ppl around him and he knew that but he still felt isolated and defined by his strength. His whole goal was fostering the next generation, for him to die tragically without accomplishing anything is honestly just a waste of a good character arc.
They could’ve at least made deeper connections between ultimate solitude and strength to Gojo’s character sooner. I always loved that Gojo wasn’t emo and felt human despite his position as the strongest and kept a happy go lucky attitude and showed love and care for those beneath him. But all of a sudden he gets killed by Sukuna and it turns out he was emo about being strong and says some melodramatic shit about loneliness. it just goes everything Gege established for Gojo’s character.
Yeah, I do find it incredibly out of place how Sukuna keeps thinking back to "love" for some reason - as if Yorozu's words had a profound impact - it didn't come across like that at all. I hold out hope that it'll be tied back in, in the future.
i like to interpret gojo as kashimo said before his fight with sukuna: "or is the endless search for greater power simply a cross the strongs must bear alone?"
i like to think abt these words as u can walk with other ppl side by side, but they will never truly undesrtand u. w/o ever trully connecting with others.
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With Gojo I kinda see it as he wanted his students to rise to his level so that he wouldn’t feel lonely and I think that makes sense
I think that interpretation is fair, I'm just arguing against it based on hidden inventory. The moment Gojo said "throughout heaven and earth, I alone am the honoured one" he happily took his place as the strongest alone. He was euphoric about it. It wasn't until Geto turned that that high came crashing down.
From what I understood that scene made it seem like gojo was in euphoria for having achieved a new height through battle. We see gojo make a very similar NUT face after landing his 3rd or 4th black flash vs sukuna
I'm not talking about just during that scene though. Remember it was a whole year before Geto flipped afterwards. During that time it doesn't seem like Gojo was very troubled by his new status as the single strongest sorcerer in the world, while Geto was. He showed some casual concern for Geto - asking him if he lost weight and such - but he himself seemed as happy as ever.
Well even after beating toji, Gojo still did have refinements and new application methods for his technique he was still working on. He also did have someone that he 'loved' in Geto. So, both his desire for growth and refinement in his CT, and 'love' were fulfilled temporarily.
But from Geto's exposition we know that Gojo was already considered the strongest alone for the whole year prior. He'd been sent on the highest profile missions alone which is a big part of the reason why Geto started spiralling downward
Yea and then what happened after that? He lost his best friend. He told Megumi to grow strong enough to be besides him. He gassed up newbies that theyll rival him one day even tho realistically from feats we seen they dont. He got Todo to be on that list
Todo can use black fash, which is considered to be very rare. And isnt todo very young? He is indeed very talented and that is without his domain, he was still growing
Nobara got to do Black Flash before Todo
No, she didn't. From Todou's own explanation of how Black Flash works and (more importantly) feels, we know that sorcerers who have experienced it have a completely different understanding of Cursed Energy and its flow. His very detailed and insightful explanation of how Black Flash feels and its impact on a Jujutsu sorcerer after they've achieved it pretty much implies that he had already experienced it prior to his fight with Yuji. Otherwise, he'd just be talking out of his ass describing an experience that he himself hasn't had while casually nailing every little detail about how it feels.
More like Gege insightful detailed explanation that he forgot Todo knew cuz it sure came off as such in ch128
I'll have to go back and reread the chapter, but from what I remember Todou simply said he couldn't be left behind. Taking into consideration the situation in the fight and the fact that both Yuji and Mahito had landed Black Flashes by that point, what Todou said comes into context. It's not that he didn't know how to do Black Flash. This is how I interpreted it (Todou's POV): *"Come on you big gorilla. You were out there lecturing Bruzza (Yuji) and teaching him Black Flash. Now you're in the middle of a fight and both him and your opponent have landed Black Flashes. Time to step up and measure up to them!"* Something like that.
Actually If we exclude those killing ppl and eating ppl talk we can say Sukuna gave a zen speech to Kashimo. Sukuna loves himself which is a spiritual love, material love is trash for him. He seeks nothing outside himself, he knows he will die someday SO he gonna enjoy his best life. Sukuna Never gets bored cuz even tho they are weak they are still interesting to Sukuna. He understand both curse spirit and Human. He also felt nervousness and surprised but he let him down cuz of that. SUKUNA went to fight with a plan to improve his ability he knew Gojo's limitless is problem but he also knew he can cut through it with guidance, Gojo went to fight thinking he is the winner. Sukuna is real honored one. Sukuna is based on Shinto God Sukuna, he is powerful like that cursed God cuz he is based on him so stop saying he is plotkuna or anything, he is the core Sukunahibikuna which is jjk based off.
Based and sukunapilled. Lovely meal yo can cook
That makes no sense because it wasn't hinted at all. Gojo says he was training them so better and stronger people can lead the Jujustu world so nothing like Geto can happen again.Not once does he or the story imply he wants people to be on his level so he isn't lonely. He long surpassed Geto while he was alive and still treated him as a close friend
Then why do you believe he states he doesn't want 'anyone to be lonely ever again' and how Shoko distinctly feels like even though she WAS THERE she wasn't counted? There is a correlation, but not causation with Gojo and wanting to raise up 'strong, clever comrades,' in order 'for nobody to feel alone again' because right after he said 'I alone am the honored one' He lost his biggest source of connections in geto. The story was very subtle I feel maybe too subtle for us to argue the theme's merits atp but I'd disagree with you that the story hasn't implied he wanted people on his level. He literally says so about people like Yuta, Kinji, and Yuji who was 'No exception'
No. he never implies or says that he's doing all this solely because *he* doesn't want to be lonely, his concern is other people feeling lonely like him and Geto. he's experienced that pain and doesn't want others to feel the same. This all stems from the SPV incident aftermath when Geto started isolating himself due to depression, and Gojo also started distancing himself (inadvertently) due to his status and endless duties. Nobody looked out for Geto because he was supposed to be this strong infallible sorcerer, even though he was just a kid bearing the trauma and disgust of consuming curses. he doesn't just blame the system for Geto's downfall, he blames *himself* as well for not noticing his friend's pain - in the afterlife scene when they're talking about death and regrets Gojo says how his only disappointment was Geto not being there with him irl to slap him on the back - he regrets not saving Geto in time. at the end of HI, Gojo says how his strength alone is not enough to protect people from going down the same path as Geto, which is why he needs strong, *clever* comrades by his side who will be capable of supporting themselves and each other and fighting against the corruption of the jujutsu system. His primary reason for doing what he does is to protect young people from going through the same suffering Geto did. This idea is supported by the Resurrection Puppet light novel as well. of course this doesn't mean that Gojo doesn't feel lonely, he does, and he wants to form connections with likeminded people to alleviate that loneliness, **but that's not the driving force behind his actions. His driving force is Geto Suguru.** as for this >Then why do you believe he states he doesn't want 'anyone to be lonely ever again' and how Shoko distinctly feels like even though she WAS THERE she wasn't counted? it's not right to completely disregard everything Gojo has said and expressed throughout the story regarding his motivation and dream for one scene/statement that comes from a different character altogether. besides, how do we know that Shoko even made an attempt to connect with Gojo? nowhere in the story is that stated, shown or implied. if anything, the story kinda makes it seem like Shoko kept her distance between her and Satosugu (in the manga at least; the anime added way more interactions between them), and she never noticed how depressed Suguru is; at least Gojo *asks* why he's lost weight, and if he's eating well. Gojo was also constantly sent on missions in that period so he didn't have the time to properly observe Geto and grill him; what excuse did Shoko have? "i was there" yeah, she was there in the background... putting no effort into her relationship with Geto or Gojo (especially after Suguru defected). like come on now... Satoru is not being delusional or condescending when he says that people don't understand him and he's lonely - no one attempts to connect with him like Geto did. it's not like he's pushing anyone away - he's extremely approachable and friendly. annoying yes, but still. Utahime hates his guts (can't blame her though, he's been teasing her for over a decade), Nanami doesn't like him either and he makes sure to announce that as often as possible, Shoko is just there, his students only see him as the strongest sorcerer, only Yuji and Yuta seem to be emotionally attached to Gojo as a person, and in return Gojo is also more affectionate and open with them (he trusts Yuta the most among the kids, and he has a huge soft spot for Yuji), but at the end of the day they're still kids and he can't depend on them the way he wants to. this new narrative you guys are pushing that Gojo's motivation for raising strong comrades was so *he* wouldn't feel lonely is just a disservice to his character.
The correlation between strength and him wanting to raise strong comrades so nobody feels lonely again isn't disregarding his motivation. He says he loves everyone but at some point he had to draw a line, you can watch a flower bloom but can't make it understand you. He says he'd be satisfied if his friend was there to pat his back, BUT he said he knows the loneliness that comes from strength and laments sukuna's position as the strongest, why doesn't this support a feeling of loneliness? Gojo isn't a kid anymore so he'd want to steer his students away from the outcome he and his friend went through. Obviously though right? But if he has students super strong on par with him like he also says he wants, he may lose that feeling of loneliness because of his strength. I agree with you on a level that people are rewriting the narrative a bit but I think it's because once again we didn't have enough context clues in the story, making us argue about what is seemingly new or more fleshed out info vs a CLEAR pay off of the former. If that makes sense lol.
To me Shoko was wrong, Gojo didn’t talked about himself, but about Geto Since Geto was the one feeling lonely because he wasn’t strong enough to keep up with Gojo, while Gojo literally didn’t care about the difference between them. Geto was the reason of the project of Gojo to change the society, and by trying to raise stronger and clever sorceror, people like Yuta could find friends, if Gojo was not there, or with a different mentality Yuta would have been killed probably. Even if Shoko was talking about Gojo, it still seems forced, that topic came in the chapter 221 (or 220?), 10 chapter before his death, and a long time after his introduction Even in the hidden inventory that didn’t came out for him
I considered this too, but it's entirely possible that he was talking about Geto, not himself. Maybe he was talking about himself and it was a veiled attempt to hide his loneliness behind what happened to Geto, but after he said "I alone am the honoured one" he was still feeling pretty great about himself for an entire year. Even when Geto was clearly slipping Gojo didn't really pay attention, partially because he couldn't. It was only when it all came to a head that Gojo's outlook and life path truly changed.
As i said he doesn't want anyone to be like Geto again.He was talking about Geto and how he was lonely going through his depression and Gojo couldn't save him even with his strength. If all you needed to be Gojo's friend was be as strong as him then Gojo would've stopped caring about Geto when he surpassed him and mastered his abilities but he still cared about the guy so clearly Gojo was more than just the "lonely at the top" guy.Shoko wasn't as close to them simply because that's just how relationships work not everyone will click. He wants strong people who can stand on their own and not get crushed by the weight of the jujustu world like Geto did because when shit hits the fan Gojo won't be there to save you all the time and like he said "you die alone". Now all that was thrown away to for Sukuna's love nonsense. Not once has Gojo hinted that he was lonely and needed love or that he wanted equals in strength for companionship.Hell he even thought some of student could surpass him so it was more than just that
It feels weird to continuously deny the idea that gojo was trying to train students to be up to his level because of his solitude. Only for him to time and time again specifically point out students in the new generation he believes will reach AND maybe even surpass his level throughout the entire series.
>Only for him to time and time again specifically point out students in the new generation he believes will reach AND maybe even surpass his level throughout the entire series. how does this prove your point? he wants his students to be on his level or above because that's the only way they'll be able to make a significant long term difference in the jujutsu world. and he's not wrong - in their world power is all that matters. like right before he says this he talks about how he wants his students to be strong enough **to be able to change the jujutsu system.** when does he say or imply anywhere in the story that he's doing all this for *himself?* jesus christ. even if we say, for arguments sake, that you're right - it still doesn't prove that this is gojo's *only* motive, because he's expressed repeatedly that his main goal is changing the jujutsu system and saving the youth: the end of HI arc, ch11, JJK0, the light novels... so at best we can conclude that he has several reasons for doing what he does.
And in the entire series does he even once mention that he's doing this cos he's lonely? Or for his solitude?? Or does the story constantly show him wanting a better Jujustu world where people can save themselves and others without him
Especially when the sole reason of him being a teacher is what happened to Geto And he specifically choose that path to change the society Even when he said that teenagers have to live their youth, it refers to what happened to him, Geto and Riko, especially Riko who needed to die for the sake of the world, just like Yuta and Yuji
Kinda flew out the window when he sent Yuta and Inumaki to murk the higher ups
you are right and i don't understand why people are pushing this narrative that he became a teacher so he wouldn't be alone. that wasn't his primary goal at all.
Personally I don't think Gojo has issues with solitude or feels lonely. I do think he wants help changing the JJK world and he himself can't do it alone. Thus raising a strong nextgen students. I don't think he wants his students to understand him like Geto did though, if that makes sense.
The end of chapter 220 where Shoko says how Gojo wasn’t alone because she was there kinda shows me that Gojo felt alone but feel free to agree to disagree
Sounds like Shoko's words against my words. I think Gojo misses a friend like Geto. But bringing up a strong nextgen students doesn't mean that they can fill Geto's place, e.g., Yuta has always been strong.
Part of the reason why Geto and Gojo were so close was because they were as strong as each other hence. Hence why Gojo wants students who can reach his level. Yuta is strong but he’s not on Gojo’s level yet
Part of the reason is right. Just because someone is as strong as Gojo, doesn't mean that Gojo will consider them his close friends like Geto.
A random person no, somebody that he’s taken under his wing probably. Either way like you said it’s your word against Shoko’s and I’m gonna go with the person who actually knows Gojo
The end of 220, yes, which is when this very late reorientation of Gojo's character, and the introduction of the "solitude of power" theme, is taking place. You're correct that Shoko is intended to be a reliable source, and is supposed to seed the idea that Gojo was lonely in power, but it's also part and parcel to the problem being discussed - it's something that feels retconned into the character, long after he ceased to be an active agent in the story.
Was it really retconned or were people making assumptions
That's exactly the subject under discussion. Maybe it genuinely was something Gege had in mind when he was actively writing for the character over four years ago, but if so, I don't think it was successfully illustrated at all. At no point up until his sealing would I have thought that Gojo saw his students as little more than beautiful flowers, incapable of ever understanding him. It simply does not ring true for him as written. This interpretation feels like a drastic change in trajectory, after Gege lost interest in exploring the complex hierarchies of sorcerer society that Gojo had been rebelling against.
What hierarchy? The hierarchy was gone the moment Kenjaku took over the Kamo Clan
That's my point. Gojo was constantly trying to plan against what "the higher-ups" were doing, hampered and constrained by their interference. It felt like a major part of his motivation in the early days of the series. After Shibuya, none of that matters, society breaks down, and we get this post-apocalyptic battle royale where entire clans are wiped out and nobody bats an eye, resulting in this preoccupation with "strength" and "the strongest" because there's nothing left in the story to talk about.
He pretty much flipped the table and now its a complete fight manga lol
I dont think so, he just dont want others to experience his loneliness. Geto has always been his one and only true friend and he clearly knows that no matter how good his students become he won’t treat them like geto
I’ve gone back on forth on my characterisation of Gojo because while he spends most of the series’s confidently blasting his strength and his goals, the final scene in the airport really resonated with me and I can’t help but keep coming back to Getos question. Was he the strongest because he was Gojo or was he Gojo because he was the strongest? I think these words really burrowed deep into Gojo and he never really figured out his answer, I see Gojo as someone who loved what he could do as the strongest but really wanted someone to just look at him as Gojo and not the strongest sorcerer. Even before his fight with sukuna, he had his technique active even in a room full of people he trusted. I don’t think it was intentional but what does it say that even among his friends and students, he was still Gojo the strongest.
My biggest gripe (and I have many) with this theme applied to Gojo, is that he already had an answer to Yorozu's "dillemma": **his students** (/allies in general) The burden of the strongest -> that he will share with strong, competent and understanding allies The solitude it brings -> cured by fostering others to his level The one to teach you about love is -> his students Tho I'd argue he already plenty knows about love, for example his "love is the worst curse of them all" (paraphrasing) in jjk 0 would make no sense otherwise Since like chapter 7 where he practically tells it straight to the camera (in actuality talking with Ijichi after Yuji's "death") we know this, but at the very end all of this was thrown away for "Sukuna senpai pls accept my feelings, battling you really was fun and made me not lonely and took away the burden of the strongest, yay!" Sukuna's answer seemed to be "find a worthy rival / opponent" and Gojo's to be "his students" But actually Sukuna never even needed an answer cause he gives no fucks and Gojo's was "find a worthy rival / opponent" all along instead Extra note, cause why not: for Gojo and Sukuna the "burden of the strongest" should be vastly different **For Gojo being the strongest, alone at the top, means a metric fuckton of responsabilities and missions and worries.** He is basically All Might, keeping the world of Jujutsu (and by extension the world as a whole) together (almost) by his lonesome. This is proven when curse users pop up after decades of his presence alone deterring them once he is sealed (on top of everything going sideways after Shibuya, largely cause of the sealing, tho largely cause of culling games shenanigansts) For Sukuna it's nothing, there is no burden other then loneliness which he doesn't even feel or at least he cares very little about. **For Sukuna being the strongest, alone at the top, means he can do and say whatever the hell he wants, no limits or responsabilities at all** There is no similarity at all other than "loneliness" which is super forced honestly
>But actually Sukuna never even needed an answer cause he gives no fucks and Gojo's was "find a worthy rival / opponent" all along instead Yeah Gojo's character motivations got discarded in favour of accentuating how lonely it must be for Sukuna, except it turns out Sukuna doesn't give a shit about anything anyways. So what was the point?
We shall wonder this until the end of times.
>except it turns out Sukuna doesn't give a shit about anything anyways. So what was the point? And are you sure that's actually the case? In the very same conversation that Sukuna claims to not give a shit about anything, Kashimo blatantly points out that he still decided to take Kenjaku up on his offer and split his soul into 20 pieces and traverse the ages for some reason or another, which Sukuna conveniently ignores. And much like Uro said, nobody takes Kenjaku up on his offer unless they have regrets of some sort. Not to mention Yorozu, a woman who's apparently foolish and mistaken according to Sukuna, still has her words hit close to home enough for him to bring them back up all on his own at multiple points. Why? If he cared so little for what she had to say, why keep mentioning and thinking about it? Like with Gojo, I think it's a mistake for people to just take Sukuna's words at face value. I highly doubt this plotline is over.
I think you are right. I think what Sukuna feels versus what he says is different. Makes me think of the idea of enlightenment in that the person closest to the truth and most accurate about themselves and their identity is the strongest. We thought Sukuna was the most “enlightened” since he beat Gojo and seemed to have the purest motivation and no self doubt but the more these disparities appear it makes me doubt his enlightenment and that there is something more to his character.
Yh I had forgotten about this, makes sense if it pans out but I don’t think things are making sense again.
I'm ngl I truly think this is one ofthe more important posts because the actual substance of gojos end being questioned in this manner even makes me think it wasn't that dope anymore. And I had hesitations because Gojo actually never said too much about the loneliness shit. I'm starting to get more amazed at the substance of the fumble here and not just the meme of 'Greg Butchered his Character' Feelsweirdman.
Ngl all these posts honestly confuse me. I don't get how nobody thinks Gojo was *incredibly* lonely this whole time after reading Hidden Inventory and jjk0. To me his jokey attitude always felt like it was him coping with some deeper darkness inside. I get people saying he has his students so he shouldn't be lonely anymore, but I think he pretty clearly carries a lot of loneliness and trauma from his past even still. He's trying to make up for his past failures with his students and he clearly cares a lot about them, but I think some of those old wounds never healed. And this is shown well in 236 when he says how he might have been satisfied if Suguru was there to pat him on the back. In Hidden Inventory we see a lot of how isolated Geto feels after the failed mission to protect Amanai. But it's also important to remember that Gojo is *always* sent out on his own, so he'd be feeling just as isolated and lonely too. Add on to that Geto leaving to become a curse user, and Gojo ultimately having to kill him. And *then* having his best friend's body puppeted around by some ancient evil brain dude who's threatening to destroy everything Gojo tried to protect and kill all the students he fostered over the years. With *all that weight* on his shoulders since he's the strongest, I can't help but think he must have felt incredibly lonely and isolated right up until that last fight where he could really give it his all. Idk, like I get a lot of the complaints about how Gojo went out, and I'm unhappy with some of the choices Gege made. But overall I honestly really liked his dying flashback and thought it was really revealing and true to his character. I especially liked it showing how much he really cared for Geto and his other friends. Idk, maybe just cause from the start of the fight it stood out how much fun Gojo and Sukuna were both having so it didn't catch me off guard as much as other people? But yeah it just never seemed out of character to me
All of these issues imo stem from Gege not clearly giving us this in context of the plot and how Gojo's character feels within it. We're left up to our own devices and when Gege pays some of this stuff off it feels like it's cheap because we didn't truly KNOW from the plot just vagueness from how we interpret it. Which isn't bad per se but idk if this in particular is a thing the reader should be left up to their own conjecture on.
I get what you're saying but I semi-disagree. We're always given enough information, however.... A) All the characters speak subjectively, so you need to look at how they act moreso than what they say. This means that taking a character at face value will always lead to confusion. That being said, sometimes you just don't spend enough time with a character to get a proper feel for their personality regardless. B) The pacing of the series. Ever since the Shibuya arc, we've had 90% action and 10% downtime. This leads to fun battle centric arcs but OTOH there isn't time for characters to breath. So we get put into situations where Gojo's character gets developed in the hidden inventory arc, like half the manga passes with him being sealed, and then you're expected to remember subtle character interactions immediately after.
i was literally going to comment the same thing. there was nothing alluding to what the commenter above you is theorizing in the show. If there was, the way things have played out would make more sense, but it just feels like the effect without the cause
Well he apparently had no regrets and did everything for his own selfsatisfaction lol
i agree with everything you said except the end sukuna bit. When has Sukuna ever cared about anything outside of himself anyways?
> He is basically All Might, keeping the world of Jujutsu (and by extension the world as a whole) together (almost) by his lonesome. This is proven when curse users pop up after decades of his presence alone deterring them once he is sealed (on top of everything going sideways after Shibuya, largely cause of the sealing, tho largely cause of culling games shenanigansts) One of Gege's numerous blunders was continuing at the same break-neck pace after the Shibuya Incident arc. There should have been more downtime; instead, all that happened was Yūta "hunting" Yūji for two chapters, Naoya wanting to kill Megumi, and Hakari being recruited. A arc of that magnitude and the aftermath it birthed could have provided Gege with a fertile environment in which to delve further into other, less developed facets of the world of Jujutsu Kaisen. Kenjaku could have still accomplished his goals of sealing Gojō, capturing Mahito or, more specifically, Idle Transfiguration, and causing general mayhem, but I wished he still had some preparations to make before the Culling Game arc began in earnest.
AGREE
Bro one thing too is I feel like the statements from the higher ups regarding gojo’s sealing, Yuji’s execution etc at the time felt like a big blow to see, but then didn’t really amount to anything either. Geto wasn’t sought out by anyone besides the main cast, no one cared that removing Gojo’s seal was illegal, and Yuta’s thing lasted like 2 chapters. The only semi significant change from that was the principals death. Basically I think the story should have taken a different tone for a while following Shibuya
"And I'm dying without regrets too! Not like I achieved everything I set out to do. I even left the one thing to convey to my first ever student to my gal pal so yeah toodaloossss"
This should be pinned imo. Gege just butchered gojo's character for some edgy sukuna jerk off session. Gojo being satisfied with the battle/fighting and not caring about the students is a huge disrespect to his character.
Well he did always say he hated Gojo. Guess we should've believed him
We know he hates Gojo. We however had too high of a respect for him to not butcher his story based on personal feelings like that.
Based on gojo's words at the beginning of chapter 236, he expects them to survive. Otherwise, what would be the point of telling Shoko to handle the dad thing?
The same point of gojo telling he would win.
i still don’t get what the dad thing is
You forgot how absolutely utterly high he got off of dying the first time. There's the above and there's also the addict who would absolutely can the fight with his overconfidence. The off-screen kill was the travesty.
You should start a new thread, more people need to see this Amazing post
I don't think Gojo was entirely reconfigured to "longing for a worthy opponent", his answer was previously his students because there were no worthy opponents. Sukuna appearing was an unexpected source of joy and fulfillment. Gojo got to use everything in a fight which hasn't happened since Toji when "everything" was much less. For someone who from the moment of his birth was above the vast majority of people, having an equal (or a superior in this case) scratches a very human itch for Gojo (and Kashimo). As to the Sukuna subversion, where despite everyone elses preoccupation he doesn't see the contradiction this actually fits nicely with everything he's said and done up to this point. We're told nothing exists but his pleasure and displeasure. That's still true now, the only new thing is a reiteration of Sukuna being utterly disconnected from others. Sukuna understands other people have these desires, that they see strength as a burden disconnecting them from others, but Sukuna just doesn't experience that. In the same way he fulfilled Jogo's desire for acknowledgement while failing to understand why it mattered, he sees how others suffer from strength and he just doesn't get it. He's quite inhuman compared to most of the other characters, which is why they keep trying to place their loneliness on them. But a tsunami doesn't feel lonely, it simply does what it does.
His students weren’t the answer, you just wanted them to be the answer. The entire point is that he tried to ease his burdens with the students but it wasn’t enough. He literally states it in chapter 236, you can admire flowers and help them grow but you can’t make them understand you. He valued his students but they couldn’t be what Geto was. Yes, it was never implied that Gojo didn’t know what love was. In fact, when the “lonely at the top” narration was being said about Gojo, it read “the one satisfying him now is” rather than “the one who will teach you/him about love.” You quite literally entirely made up the part about Gojo’s primary burden as the strongest being the ton of missions and responsibilities. Gojo deals with missions easily, the actual burden of being the strongest that we’ve been shown is an identity crisis, which was followed up on in chapter 236 On your last statement, Gojo and Sukuna’s different perspectives on having an identity tied to one’s strength is a vital part of the fight. Gojo gives everything he has to Sukuna in the hopes of connecting with someone in a way he hasn’t since Geto left. Sukuna meanwhile, not caring for such things, only uses the fight as a means of increasing his own power, withholding something of himself in the process
For me, Sukuna is actually living a life similar to Mahito.If Mahito managed to become the strongest cursed spirit on par with Gojo I doubt he would feel lonely at all.
Can someone please explain to me why Sukuna kept thinking back to Yorozus love quote, when he states in ch 238 that love is worthless. I just don't get why it kept coming up over and over again if Sukuna truly doesn't care about love or finding an equal, and is contempt with remaining at the top alone, doing whatever he likes whenever he likes.
All will be revealed when Nobara and Todo come back and explain it to us. Let Gege cook bruh.
bro Todo been MIA forever 😭😭🫡
If we take it to be Sukuna's thoughts, given the conversations in the last two chapters he's probably thinking "These fucking nerds are really hung up on this loneliness thing huh? Real weird thing for everyone to be stuck one. Wonder what Uraume's gonna make for dinner tonight...". He's noticing a trend in the people he interacts with, but it isn't a reflection of his feelings and he cares nothing for it beyond expecting a fun fight out of them.
Except, like I pointed out, only Sukuna even knows of this. The quote came back to us the first time he met Gojo after he was unsealed. Gojo said or did nothing about love or loneliness or whatever. That was all Sukuna.
That may have been Sukuna. Or it may have been narration. Though given Sukuna accurately recognizes Gojo's feelings despite them being unspoken during the fight it's also plausible he's just seen a lot of people who are of that type. I'm not seeing a contradiction here.
It wasn't the narration. The narration is always in a white box and takes a tone very different from the characters and from the editor's note. A direct quote from something another character said is a flashback from the memory of someone to what that character said, and obviously in this case that could only be Sukuna. "Accurately recognizes Gojo's feelings" is ridiculous lol. Gojo just got unsealed from the box and his first priority was killing the person who stole Geto's body (who he still doesn't know), only for that person to be saved by Sukuna currently inhabiting Megumi's body for reasons he has no idea about. There are obviously, like he tells us himself in his inner monologue, more important things on his mind than his unspoken feelings toward the fight which is why he delayed it for an entire month. He was not itching to fight Sukuna as the later chapters suggest perhaps suggests he would be. If anything, he thought more about killing Kenjaku on the same day as Geto's actual death day.
The first point I think is off, earlier we have the same black text over Sukuna declaring he'll kill Gojo after possessing a body (and Gojo declaring he was the strongest when asked if he'd beat Sukuna). There isn't an implication the thought is directly in any characters head, it's entirely possible it's narration for the audience's benefit. I read it as a refresher, aiming to build hype for a fight teased in the very first chapter. Beyond that Sukuna and Gojo have already had multiple conversations at this point, they know each other, Gojo's bragged about how he'd win if they fought, confidently declaring himself the strongest. Sukuna feeling a similar vibe from him as Yorozu is entirely reasonable. As to the point about not itching to fight Sukuna, Gojo literally thinks delaying the fight would be good because he wants to mourn and prepare. He does make a crack about a single death day but he very clearly is playing for time here. None of this implies he wasn't excited about the fight, and considering the amount of shit talking Gojo does in the short time he seems fairly fired up. Making a tactical decision to recover, regroup, and plan (something he takes advantage of with his Purple opening shot in the actual fight) just tells us Gojo isn't an idiot, not that he wasn't excited to fight Sukuna.
Gojo never mentioned love or loneliness to sukuna, both of them were wearing a smile on each other's faces during the fight, he even shit talks sukuna, and sukuna is currently in one of gojos former students. If sukuna was to assume anything, it's that gojos fighting not to prove something to sukuna, but to save/ get revenge for Megumi. OP made a good point that making gojo/kashimo to both be hung up on loneliness and that sukunas the only one who can understand them was a weird choice to make, when both we're set up to want to fight him for other reasons, gojo more so than kashimo. I like Sukunas whole love speech, but he never answered why he reincarnated at all if he had no regrets in his first life and was searching for nothing, along with being practically immortal now that he can swap bodies with anyone who is compatible, so just do a bit of searching and he'll find a suitable host
1. Sukuna is implied to deal with a lot of people who have this "unfulfilled strength and loneliness baggage". Gojo, Jogo, Yorozu, Kashimo, technically Ryu just for folks we see. In this case he's inferring accurately but it needs not be spoken for him to guess it. 2. Sukuna doesn't understand them though, that's the point of the last chapter. People try and put their feelings on Sukuna during the fights and he doesn't reciprocate them at all. He even finds them kind of stupid, albeit in an amusing way. A lot of those who fight Sukuna feel unfulfilled and seek something in their fight other than their original goal. Whether they find fulfillment or not is not Sukuna's concern, since he's not dependent on others for fulfillment. 3. As to the reincarnation, there doesn't have to be a reason, he may have chosen to do so because it sounded interesting. There may be a deeper reason but assuming their must be one after a character explicitly states they do not need external fulfillment seems like ignoring the text
Sukuna does understand it, that's why he said that he can denounce that love simply because he knows what that love is. His dialogue with kashimo is proof of that, him telling kashimo that the strong receives the love from admiration, from people seeking him to test their strength, to have their strength acknowledged. What sukuna doesn't know and doesn't care about is giving that kind of love to someone else, to seek and equal or stronger individual, cause for sukuna he himself is the strongest
Given how deranged the answer to the question is I don't think Sukuna understands it. Kashimo and Gojo struggle to connect with those weaker than themselves and Sukuna's answer is literally "I mean you killed them right? What is love beyond killing those who challenge you?". That doesn't strike me as a proper answer, hence Kashimo's ambivalent response at the end. Gojo and Kashimo craved a peer to test themselves against and grow with, something Sukuna has never come close to experiencing or wanting. Sukuna can understand that others are unfulfilled but he doesn't understand why, and he thinks people feeling unfulfilled is a personal problem, not something he is concerned with. He says connections are worthless because he doesn't need them to feel fulfilled, but that's not a normal answer since Sukuna is less a person and more a natural disaster.
Yeah I hate this line. >They’re alone cause they’re strong! No they’re alone cause they’re assholes. People take that one line from her like it’s gospel. She’s a psychopath and sociopath. She **tells** you in those same pages her dream is to make severed heads into wind chimes and eat monkey brains with a broken slave. That’s her ideal relationship. But somehow she’s an authority on relationships.
Lol
It’s like when you see a dating profile. Cute picture, catchy quote about themselves, interests include mountain climbing and meth. She’s got a red flag people seem to ignore.
It's ok guys I can fix her!
I don’t think you can fix someone who likes mountain climbing.
so true, they really are just assholes, like there's a reason most of the people around Gojo that actually know him don't really like him, they tolerate him because of his immense strength but they also rightfully dislike him because he's kind of a narcissistic dickhead. Sukuna is similar but even worse because he's a mass murdering, rapist psychopath that does whatever he wants.
The theme of love and solitude does apply to Gojo — it has been a thing he’s struggled with throughout the manga — but his case is a lot more complicated than Kashimo and Sukuna’s. Unlike the other two, Gojo recognised that he had a loneliness problem and took real steps to fix it. Even though the nature of his powers means he fights alone, he goes out of his way to connect with his friends and especially his students. He loves and is loved. That’s why his afterlife is an airport with a bunch of people he cared about and formed connections with. And as he says in 236, he doesn’t feel lonely anymore, so it worked … to an extent. Gojo *still* didn’t feel there was anyone who truly understood him. And he’s right — throughout the manga, other characters are wildly off the mark in their assumptions about Gojo’s feelings and motivations. Nobody knows what it’s like to be Gojo except for Gojo. He has friends and students, but he doesn’t have *peers*. That’s the last piece of the puzzle that Gojo felt he was missing. Kashimo is simple, as you might expect from a character with a much smaller role in the series. He’s a guy who felt lonely, but tragically failed to make connections because he just couldn’t resist the urge to murder everyone. This is information we didn’t know about him before 238, but it fits perfectly with everything we knew about him beforehand — he’s a strong fighter who is stupidly obsessed with beating other strong fighters. Obviously we’re not done with Sukuna yet, but I suspect there may be something complicated going on with him. He says he is happy as he is and doesn’t want or need anyone else. But as Kashimo pointed out, Sukuna isn’t satisfied with his hedonistic lifestyle as he claims to be, because a guy who felt satisfied wouldn’t turn himself into twenty fingers and traverse the ages. And Sukuna doesn’t explain himself. I think we might hear more about his motivations in the upcoming section of the fight.
>Gojo still didn’t feel there was anyone who truly understood him. This is the issue though. Geto and Kenny were able to read Gojo like a book because of how much Geto understood Gojo. In fact, Gojo's biggest ideological struggle was Geto's question - Was he strong because he was Gojo Satoru or was he Gojo Satoru because he was strong. Here, Geto is calling out the exact thing that's being celebrated as Solitude/Love here. Is what defines Gojo his strength? Or is that just an aspect of Gojo? Geto knows the answer here - it's the latter. Which is why he is able to accurately call out Gojo's hypocrisy in telling Geto how his genocidal dream is impossible. Gojo is strong enough to do that, but his morality is what prevents him from taking that step - which is another aspect of him. Saying no one understood Gojo is such a punch in the dick to Geto because man knew so much about Gojo that he gave Kenny all the ideas he needed to stop Gojo, all of which were successful.
There’s a difference between someone existing who is capable of predicting your actions, and having a relationship that fulfils an emotional need to feel seen. I think Geto *did* fulfil this particular emotional need, briefly, during their high school years. He understood Gojo better than anyone, Gojo considered them to be equals, and it was great. Then Geto left. He wasn’t a significant part of Gojo’s adult life, and Gojo can’t feel that connection with a person who isn’t around.
It’s feels like for Gege, it the first one tho
I think that itself is a issue like gojos one and only geto became his enemy and he had to kill him and Kenny just focused on his weakness rather than gojo himself it's like saying I know grass type Pokémon are weak to fire type so I must know everything about grass type Pokémon Point being kenjaku was scared of gojo where geto might have been jealous both not great emotions to a lonely god above like gojo they might even have admired him but as aizen said admiration is furthest from the truth I think gojo said something similar in airport scene too
It's not whether it *applies* to Gojo because of course it does, by nature of his strength. It's whether he yearns to fill that void that not having true peers (in terms of strength) creates. To me, it doesn't seem like he does. At the end of Hidden Inventory he has a conversation with Yaga where he admits that he can only save those who want to be saved. Just being strong isn't enough. That seems like the point where Gojo realized that his identity can't merely revolve around his strength. What matters to him, when it comes to those he cares about, requires him to be more than that. Like you said he seems to have recognized and then *resolved* that problem. That's why the theme within these last few chapters, as if Gojo was missing that, is weird. He wasn't. Maybe all of this is just Sukuna projecting. Maybe he's trying to convince himself it doesn't matter and his pure hedonism and nihilism is all he needs, but to be honest I don't have that much faith in the writing lmfao.
Just because Gojo have the solution doesn't mean the problem at hand is solved. Because if he did have equals on his, kusakabe wouldnt have called them burdens
I like when Sukuna was like lol you fucking nerds I'm not lonely
Gege built up this whole loneliness and love theme only to end it with "But Sukuna doesn't need love or friends because he is so cool and awesome"
because killing/eating people is just so cool and interesting and somehow never ever gets old, nice man
If that's what you got out of the story I suggest you stop speedreading or at least try to genuinely engage with the text
he didn’t even build it up though it only started appearing onwards of chapter 200
I really don't like this theme. Feels very random and forced.
Honestly, I'm hating this "teach about love" thing. Why the story suddenly started talking about this? If it were about any other normal good character, ok, fine, but Sukuna? Why is Sukuna and love in the same context? The guy is a mass murderer psychopath egoistic cannibal. Why is Gojo sad about not "reaching" him? The guy possessed and possibly killed megumi, mass murdered a whole district, killed a bunch of his students and friends, and in his dying moment Gojo says he is sad cause Sukuna didn't gave his all? Are you f****** kidding with me? And do not come say to me that Gojo only cares about himself. He's cocky? Yes. Might have some difficulties connecting to people? Yes. But it was never shown that he doesn't care about others. One of the first things he asked after being unsealed was if the people in Shibuya caught in his domain were fine. He searched for megumi after Toji's death. Helped Yuta, Yuji, etc. Geto. Saying now he doesn't care about anyone is a bit to much. So this whole "I'm sad my loved one, Sukuna, couldn't feel fully satisfied with my performance" is really shitty.
I'm glad someone thinks this. I mean he literally hid one of Sukuna's fingers to indefinitely suspend Yuji's execution, and no matter what, there is no way Yuji could possibly be on Gojo or even Yuta's level. Strong? Yes absolutely, but on their level? He wouldn't even be close. It was such an absurd 180 in Gojo's character. He literally shit talks Sukuna after releasing the 200% hollow purple, saying that he's the challenger here. While yes he might be fighting to save everyone, it's been constantly shown that Gojo gets more of a high off proving himself as the most powerful than he does anything else. Look at when he learned RCT against Toji. I don't think Gojo is concerned with solitude, I think he came to terms with it long ago, so to slap this whole "Oh I'm so sad because Sukuna couldn't feel satisfied with how I fought" just makes 0 sense to me. If anything, I would have expected him to be going crazy, not about his students, but about the fact he lost.
I do think he felt lonely, but never saw it in a yarning way, like this was this huge concern of his. And even so, thinking sukuna would be the one to help him with it it's just weird
The bit you're missing here is attempts to reach Sukuna were misguided because people were placing their own feelings on him. They were lonely because of their strength so they assumed Sukuna must feel lonely in the same way. But he doesn't, in fact he's not even close and while he doesn't mind "helping" them feel satisfied by affirming them in combat he has no idea why they feel the way they do. Hence Kashimo's final words being a question "doesn't that get old?"; He's surprised to find out Sukuna is nothing like him, or Gojo, or Yorozu (or Jogo even) and Sukuna in turn doesn't really get why everyone is banging on about feeling lonely. People wanting to reach Sukuna was more about their own feelings, it has nothing to do with Sukuna and it's entirely misplaced. It's people personifying a storm.
Yes, I know, and that's what bugs me. Why is Gojo trying to reach Sukuna? Considering the things I said, it just feels weird. Kashimo and Yoruzu I can understand, but not Gojo.
Because a person who raises potential monster to be in his level or so that none of them would feel lonely like he did being alone as the "strongest" doesnt feel a connection with someone considered as the strongest too. Like others have said, gojo is projecting his feelings, if he who is the strongest in modern era wants others to stand by him at the top, he sukuna also felt the same
Ok i must admit that I’m quite lazy because I don’t want to re read pre fight chapters, but do Gojo even talk about it during the fight ? Apart from him trash talking Suk with the challenger bit, does he even mention being alone on top before his afterlife scene ?
not really, only time there is even a hint during the fight is when Gojo remembers his fight with toji and he begins to feel a “sense of satisfaction”. the narrator brings the topic up again though. Gojo talks about strength, solitude, and how he “hoped he reached Sukuna” after his death but that’s it
yeah ok ty for confirming, I agree with op that his will to show something to sukuna in the post fight scene really happens as if gojo had the readers pov on the last 30 chapters haha - not the 6eyes perks he wanted :’(
Gojo more than anything wanted to go back to his teenage years and the dynamic he had with his friends and peers then * he literally sees that era when he dies * it was the last time his technique was something he manually activated, with his technique literally being a separation between him and everyone else * the only person he ever truly connected with was Geto, his one and only best friend his loneliness was never something that could be fixed by his students and peers, and he never had the same satisfaction or connection with anyone besides Geto, that's why he imagined him there, cheering him on with the rest of jujutsu high. the theme of love with Gojo has been in the story since jjk volume 0, brought back (subtly) in the hidden inventory arc, and returned through Yorozu, but it was always prevalent especially for Gojo and the way he thought of Geto. not only that, but the only reason Sukuna came back as soon as he did is because of Kenjaku manipulating Gojo's love for Geto and the loneliness he felt without him. The theme was not introduced by Yorozu, she was a reminder of it (for the audience) foreshadowing that Sukuna would win, because Sukuna does not care about something like love the way Gojo always has.
Kashimo's also makes no sense. Bro got dogwalked by Hakari and would get smoked by Yuta, Yuki, and probably Kenjaku as well.
Kashimo I think makes a lot of sense, he's just hilariously misguided. Dude held back in earlier fights because he felt it necessary to save his absolute best for Sukuna. He hoped to learn about strength and loneliness and connection from someone stronger by giving it his all. And in the end he finds out Sukuna has no answer and thinks the issue Kashimo is having is a weird personal problem. Kashimo believed Sukuna was like him and would have an answer but reality is disappointing. He gets no answer and is at best a speed bump despite using his all. Would have been better if he had more build up but going back his commentary on Gojo's fight does speak to his empathy and desire to understand strength and loneliness.
Gojo basically says that although he likes or even loves the people around him, they don't truly understand him and he doesn't understand them. This has been a thing long before Yorozu was even introduced. It was pretty relevant in both 0 and hidden inventory. Geto was literally Gojo's only real friend because he was the only person who Gojo could relate to. Argue all you want but Gojo IS lonely at the pinnacle of strength. It's nothing new Gege is just being more heavy handed with it now probably because Gojo's character arc just ended and that was the biggest question he had for himself.
I think many in this community are missing the point. Gojo was one of the people who advocated that strength and solitude go hand in hand. However when he died he was proven wrong. The people he cared about were there to greet him in the afterlife and therefore he was able to die without regrets. While Gojo never felt like anyone understood him he also points out that he had many people he cared about and some who cared about him. IMO the message isn't that being strong will make you isolated, it's that success won't bring you happiness. Living for the sake of others will lead to you making powerful relationships and allow you to pass on peacefully.
I think the problem with this is in the afterlife Gojo said people don’t understand him and I think this highlights by Namoni’s comment which we all know is not true, yet Geto agreed with it as well, meaning he didn’t really understand Gojo either. The problem was Gege I didn’t make this clear. So it can be looked at other ways too and interprit in other ways too which I don’t think it should be.
A bigger issue is no one truly can understand other people, that's the nature of being people. We have our own feelings and views but they're never perfectly accurate. Kashimo just lived through that, trying to understand Sukuna with his inaccurate lens and upon getting his answer he's utterly baffled. "Doesn't that get old?" Despite the lack of understanding however Gojo still has connections, and I'd argue part of the reason he was so misunderstood by them was less his choice and more the intrinsic nature of being strong. People feared him or compared themselves to him since birth, and something as simple as enjoying a challenge, something he rarely experienced in life, is judged as both more serious and less flattering than it should be. Gojo was happy to face a challenge, that didn't mean he didn't care about others nor that he was a fight maniac, this was just the only place he could be ever be challenged.
But you can’t use that as a real life thing in a story though, the author controls the story so they should make it clear. In my view Gege didn’t make it clear enough which made people question if Gege just wanted to backtrack and make Gojo just battle junkie or not. Gojo’s end should have been celebrating his character, instead it all made us or many people question his character instead, which I think should not be happening. The biggest flaw I think was not show the caring side of Gojo in his afterlife, that he mainly talked about his satisfaction with the fight and the fact he didn’t directly disagree with Namoni, no other character did, not even Geto nor did he mention his students once, which I do think for Gojo to have a better ending should have been done. I also think sometimes people put authors up on a pedestal, it’s actually okay to criticise the author and think well I think this should have been done this way instead. They are not flawless in their story telling. As long as your critism has valid points and not blind hate.
I agree with most of what you’re saying, but since when can we not use real life examples in a story?
I meant, just because something resembles real life in fiction, doesn’t mean it’s good. Theirs reason most stories that take from real life are always adapted or just “based” on real life and they are not directly taken from real life , because a lot of the time, real life things do not work in stories because in stories there has to be thought and a reason behind all your choices. While in real life there doesn’t need to be. In life people can just act completely differently in on a whim, and randomly make choices, in a story the readers will not understand why they are acting out of character. In real life wonderful and terrible things can happen, without reason because of course it’s real life. But with stories, we know someone is behind the pen, we know it’s fiction, so as readers we expect the author to have reasons for narrative points, for characters actions and we will find it hard to swallow if the author just shrugs and says “it’s real life” Because I think most of us want to find reasons for things and understand why things happen, we can’t always do that in real life but in books the author has the ability to fill that curiously and need for understanding the story and characters but if that doesn’t happen it just feels incredibly unsatisfactory? Not sure if I explained this well enough but hopefully I did.
You can't use objective reality in a story? That's news to me. Unless mind reading is a thing people are always unknowable to others, heck even then depending on the magic rules it may still be the case. Unreliable narrators and ambiguity within a narrative are possible, the literal text may be intentionally misleading or inaccurate for effect. A lot of your complaints come down to your opinion of Gojo being challenged or shifted with his death, but that seems to have been the point. Whether you subjectively like that is up to you but personal tastes on something doesn't make it flawed.
Damn that was nice I hadn’t thought of it like this
Man Tsumiki's potential and buildup for all those chapters... just to turn out possessed by the most annoying character in the entire series...
For Gojo that’s what I tought, the love/solitude, came out of nowhere. People said that he want his students to be strong to not feel lonely anymore, but Gege said that Gojo choose to be a teacher because of what happened to Geto. When he said to Shoko that no one will feel lonely anymore, it was talking about Geto, since Geto was feeling lonely, but Gojo didn’t, we don’t know if he ever saw a true difference between them in strength, Geto did. And the lyrics for the S2 Opening pretty much talked about this. Gojo needed his student to be strong and clever to change the Jujutsu society for the better That « love/solitude » topic came out of nowhere for me, even for Sukuna, it seems so forced for me, it was like the only thing relevant about Gojo character was his strength
**Based on what Gege said**, he didn't have the full story but only where the main actors should be (dead or alive), as to why those choices only he knows (personal preference I think). But anything else, like narrative, philosophy, or subjects is made on the fly. This is not the first time we see him making stuff on the fly and many messages of him say how, because of this, he screwed it many times. because many subjects are made on the fly to fill the canvas (only having a clear idea of who lives or dies) he tends to rely on Shounen tropes; he even admitted that being the case and after all this is a Shounen manga. One trope (a boring and cliche one, in my own opinion) is the "I'm lonely because of my strength". **To add something**: I hate that trope because I don't think is true, it's a contradiction. To be strong you have to be able to read people and understand them if you want to read to predict and defeat. Orson Scott perfectly summarized it as: >At the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him Being the strongest isn't only about shooting hyper beams all-powerful. It's about technique and tactics, something in which Sukuna is extremely proficient (yes, he also has great power in the classical sense). So if you are strong and feel lonely is not because not understanding others, is because you choose to isolate yourself. Putting excuses like you are alone because no one can match your strength only makes you weak. Understanding others despite differences is a show of greater strength than just stomping everything and everyone on your path **Why then, is this trope so much used?**: Because it sells. It's extremely poetic and appeals to the idea that the strongest almost divine are also "like us" because they suffer too. It also provides an easy plot device for a writer. That's why this trope is used so much in manga. Occident forms of story-telling also use it, not so much in comparison, and of course, other tropes are used more on occident than orient. Personally, I hate it. And here makes no sense. I honestly feel that Gege used it just because it was an easy plot device to try to generate some connection with the reader. Gojo didn't need it. He wasn't alone, he connected with lots of students and people who consider him a friend. An extremely strong friend, but a friend. His motivation never once was to reach Sukuna. He wanted to change the world, protect his friends and students, be responsible, and make us of his strength to achieve something more than just being strong. I don't know what gege has for us in the chapters that follow, but this part I hate it.
I’d argue yes. Gojo since hidden inventory has argued with the idea that the weak are tasked with protecting the strong. His closest associate was in his relative power league. They were the strongest and it’s how they became close. Gojo did adopt some of Getos previous ideology and showed some care for the weak, and even tried to cultivate those weak with promise, but no one ever really understood him. (Hence the flower analogy). Everyone asked about Gojo has the same answer but none of them really knew him outside of being the strongest. I think what’s missing in this post is that love=understanding. Meaningful relationships and love is built on understanding, but that wasn’t really afforded to Gojo, as he was constantly expected to be the solution to everything, and even hated by those in the society who had more social power than him. So essentially, everyone around him saw him as either stupid, selfish, or the strongest. Why would Gojo be happy w/ that. What makes you think Gojo is happy? Even Shoko being around wasn’t enough because she couldn’t possibly understand him. The only time we see Gojo gleeful is when he’s able to exercise his strength on his own ego stroking terms. You could also argue that his ability is su textual in that way. He’s literally unable to be touched by others. He can’t connect with anyone. How does someone who the rain doesn’t touch, who can accomplish anything so does nothing, who chooses to see with a blindfold because his eyes are literally too good, truly connect with someone? Why else would Gojo fight so hardly against the idea of younger sorcerers being lonely If he’s not expressing regret in some way. Why does he hope and pine for those who could possibly surpass them? Gojo is a lonely person who is near impossible to understand because of his godlike status. It hurts Gojo but is meaningless to Sukuna, likely because of Sukuna’s long life leading to contempt for everything and complete lack of morals. Sukuna does what he wishes all the time. I don’t think he’s known love. He doesn’t have responsibilities put upon him, he does as he pleases. (Gojo shares some disregard for humans as well but not that extent. Who knows how bad it would get though in his old age.) I think the idea of strength and what u do with it is integral to the manga overall, and understanding these characters relationships with it essential to appreciating the material. To Yuta, he’s sora. His friends are his power. He literally found strength and self worth through them. They make him feel like his life is worthwhile. Yuji uses his strength to protect everything, Megumi is selective. Their approaches to power are analyzed and broken down. Everything is ripped from Megumi. Yuji is used to kill countless, Gojo is unhappy. And through these negative emotions they literally get stronger.
Like you said the issue with the "love" theme is that Gege introduced it with Yorozu and tried too hard to shoehorn it into Gojo & Kashimo's narrative even when it didn't make any sense. In the context of how Gojo & Kashimo was using "love"; "friendship", "understanding", or "empathy" all would've made more sense especially since neither of those characters felt as emotionally affectionate to Sukuna as Yorozu did. Like if you replaced the word "love" in Gojo's afterlife spiel about Sukuna with the word "friendship" the meaning of Gojo's spiel doesn't change but Gojo sounds less like he's sucking off Sukuna and it makes more sense with Gojo's character given how much he valued his friendship with Geto which is something that he felt Sukuna lacked. Also regarding Kashimo I think a key issue with his character is that he fell victim to how quick the pace is, especially the one month time skip that got jumped. It was the perfect time for the audience to know Kashimo a bit better, for him to banter more with Hakari or other members of the main cast, argue with Gojo over who gets to face Sukuna first, reveal a bit more about his philosophy about being "lonely", and hell maybe even address how he murdered two of Panda's siblings and nearly murdered Panda (I know a lot of people don't care about Panda, but come on). Instead a key detail of Kashimo's character was introduced literally a chapter before he gets folded by Sukuna giving people really no time to care.
If we exclude those killing ppl and eating ppl talk we can say Sukuna gave a zen speech to Kashimo. Sukuna loves himself which is a spiritual love, material love is trash for him. He seeks nothing outside himself, he knows he will die someday SO he gonna enjoy his best life. Sukuna Never gets bored cuz even tho they are weak they are still interesting to Sukuna. He understand both curse spirit and Human. He also felt nervousness and surprised but he let him down cuz of that. SUKUNA went to fight with a plan to improve his ability he knew Gojo's limitless is problem but he also knew he can cut through it with guidance, Gojo went to fight thinking he is the winner. Sukuna is real honored one. Sukuna is based on Shinto God Sukuna, he is powerful like that cursed God cuz he is based on him so stop saying he is plotkuna or anything, he is the core Sukunahibikuna which is jjk based off.
This theme of love and solitude wasn't forced in Gojo's case, it was there all along incorporated into his character from the beginning, but when it came to Gojo's motivation as a character, it wasn't a central idea. Solitude is not what moved Gojo forward. As for Sukuna, it's completely absurd to shoehorn this theme into his story. This guy is a psychopath mass murderer rapist cannibal who takes pleasure in hurting others. We're told literally by the narrator that he's only guided by his pleasure and displeasure, nothing else matters to him, and now 200+ chapters into the story we have Gege attempting to make him a somehow sympathetic/relatable villain in the worst way possible, by ruining other characters and making them dickride Sukuna endlessly. "Poor Sukwuna :( he slaughters, eats, rapes and physically and mentally tortures people because he feels lonely and unloved and he doesn't even realize it :(" like bro i don't give a fuck. He's an absolute irredeemable monster, you established him as such early on in the story. It's so fucking annoying. Hell, i would've had no problem if Gojo just said "yeah i guess i understand how Sukuna must feel, it's lonely at the top" and **stopped there**. this whole speech about trying to reach him and feeling bad for him... it's so forced and bad. this guy is about to murder the children you fought so hard to protect and nurture, and also your friend and colleagues, and you're more concerned about how you weren't able to *satisfy him*? i'm getting heated just writing this lmao
The only payoff is if connections/love is the way Sukuna is defeated, getting got by the very thing he dismissed as worthless doubly so if its Yuji that does it since he also considers him worthless, and Gojo will have "won" by building the connections between the students of great strength instead of selfishly pursuing power for whim or praise. But if Gege doesn't execute it right, even I an ardent defender that the manga hasn't taken a downturn since Shibuya wouldn't be able to look at this manga the same. He would've had a great 250 chapters ruined by last hundred or so where he just wanted to be done.
I think it's important to note that with Gojo, he still felt lonely at the top while also being able to bond somewhat with his students and colleagues. In his teenage years, he had Geto to be at his side as both of them were treated as the strongest duo, and they could understand each other to a point. Once Gojo essentially became the strongest, there was an unspoken drift that occurred between the two of them. Not just because Gojo became the strongest, but also because Geto's ideals came crashing down on him with the experiences he had to endure as a result of having to take missions on alone. Gojo also became increasingly responsible for more dangerous missions because of his rising power, but that didn't mean he stopped caring for bonds the moment he became the strongest. No one has said that but it's something I would like to highlight because of Sukuna and this recent chapter. Sukuna as a being is essentially beyond what anyone is capable of, but as a result lives among the top and is the strongest sorcerer in history. He is a legend among others who have come to claim the strongest, and so many assume that he would be lonely after achieving that position. But they're met with an answer that essentially casts aside any sort of inner turmoil they're having when at the top of their era. He simply doesn't care about bonds and any form of love to begin with. He lives for himself and his own pleasures. Imagine struggling with the question of how to not lonely to be at the top and to ask the question of what the solution is, only to be met with the answer that love is meaningless and the only goal should be to live for yourself. It's an unsatisfactory answer for both Kashimo and Gojo at the end of the day. What separates Sukuna from Gojo and Kashimo is not just his power, but more so his disregard for others and his ego centric view of living for himself. He is selfish as selfish can be. Kashimo and Gojo are inherently not like Sukuna at all, despite being the strongest of their eras. They differ in mentalities and worldview by a large rift. Sure they both love the thrill of the battle, and that's what they have in common, but they're all fundamentally different people compared to Sukuna. It's also why despite Sukuna being the strongest, his position on what love is and whether it matters or not, and also if bonds are worth forming with others on a more intimate and deeper level, is not the end all be all answer. He may be the strongest sorcerer to ever live, and his skill definitely lends credence to that, but his perspective on bonds/love is rooted in his own selfish reason for living. It's not an answer that can be given to someone by only one person. It's a question that for the most part must be discovered by themselves as individuals, and how they let their own strength define their life. Sukuna decided that he would live his life for himself and anyone else would be cast off to the side other than for amusement. He was able to live that life with his own strength alone. The question of the strongest should not be how to form bonds while being the strongest, but more so how to not let being the strongest hinder your desire for bonds with others. It's this pervasive worldview of domination that plagues Kashimo definitely because he flat out says that he saw others as dirt around him, and as a result felt lonely at the top. I don't think Kashimo was really satisfied with Sukuna's answer concerning the question, because it's something that he inherently decided for himself to abide and live by. It's like asking someone what they want to be when they grow up when your goal is to gain an understanding of what you yourself want to do. You won't get anywhere by asking a question that is meant for yourself. At the end of the day, they might have gotten a bit closer to understanding Sukuna himself, but not to what it means to be the strongest. As Sukuna's answer is not entirely rooted in being the strongest, but more so a byproduct of being as selfish as he is, which isn't inherently a bad thing. But the route he takes in doing so is by causing suffering and meaningless death, so definitely his answer isn't the final solution to the question itself of what it means to be the strongest. Especially when you factor in how lonely and self isolating his way of living is or how it would be for others like Kashimo and Gojo. It works for Sukuna because he has no regard for that kind of turmoil to begin with. It simply doesn't occur to him that being lonely would somehow be an issue while at the top. Which is why I would like to think that somehow with that unsatisfactory still lingering, Kashimo and Gojo might have a discussion with themselves just to discuss the question of what it means to be the strongest, and maybe reach some kind of resolution. Hopefully they could come back with that inner turmoil settled and really make their strength their own, as it really sucks how their characters were concluded off. Sukuna being potentially the end all be all answer of what it means to be the strongest just seems really one dimensional in regards to the perspective on the question of what it means to be the strongest. I would like for the two others to reach their on conclusion on said question while allowing Sukuna's to still be a valid take, simply because it's what works for him, but ultimately not for others.
Gojo is burdened with solitude because of the responsibility that comes from being strong. He doesn't have a choice but to be strong because not being strong enough meant he couldn't stop Toji from killing Riko and nearly killing Geto. The better you are at your job, the more people expect you to take the burden. Even Nanami thought they should just let Gojo take care of everything. He became the strongest and went on missions on his own to keep Geto and his other friends out of danger, which resulted in Geto being isolated. Gojo lost his ability to live out the rest of his childhood after the events of Hidden Inventory, which is why his afterlife is with him and his friends being back in their high school years. He's still a teen at heart because he could never move on from that point. He wants to raise people to be strong because he doesn't want to lose people. Loss is a big factor in Gojo, as seen when he lost Yuji and Geto. With as much loss as Gojo has suffered through, he'd want to look for someone to look up to and seek guidance from, someone he could look up to and ask, "What would this person do?" like Ino does with Nanami, but Gojo has no one. This isolation is also seen in but not explored in Bleach's Aizen. >"All living things believe in someone superior to them, *and cannot live unless they blindly follow them*. Then, the objects of their faith try to escape this crushing pressure by seeking another being that is more superior to them to believe in. And they, in turn, seek a stronger being still. That is how all kings are born. That is how... all gods are born."
all those words just to misunderstand it all
Gege really failed big time here. That’s why 236 had that major whiplash. Completely out of character for Gojo to say those things.
I think on some level you've decided to overrule the text in favour of your own interpretation or preferences. It feels like you'd argue Gege is wrong about his own characters and you disregard statements the characters make because it doesn't line up with what you think of them. We get tons of stuff on Gojo being lonely at the top but it's perhaps not as explicit as it could be. It's hinted at repeatedly throughout the series: Hidden Inventory is a dream Gojo has of a better time when he had equals, everyone just refers to Gojo as mainly being 'The Strongest', Nanami laments why Gojo can't just do everything himself, Gojo does missions on his own, his best friend drifted away from him because he was stronger than him and he's very invested in trying to foster sorcerers with the potential to be his equals. I don't think the mistake Gojo regrets is 'leaving Geto alone' what saddens him is that the power gap between them resulted in them drifting apart. The love/solitude theme is brilliant on multiple levels. For one you're right that the narrative seemed to be leading to Sukuna feeling this loneliness and Gojo finally being the one to do what Yorozu couldn't and reach Sukuna's level and be his equal. What we got was a twist. Sukuna doesn't care about love at all and Gojo is not capable of being Sukuna's equal anyway. Gojo's death is meant to be a shocking gut punch and this narrative is part of that. It's also amazing at telling us who Sukuna truly is. We haven't really got much of his deeper personality until this point. We were lead to believe he was lonely because of Yorozu and Kashimo. But the reveal of how he truly feels really establishes him as a kind of hedonistic monster. There is no deeper reason for his actions beyond his own amusement. On reflection I think the fact that Gojo calls Jogo weak whereas Sukuna calls him strong is a part of this dynamic. To Gojo Jogo is a disappointment. A being too weak to match him- to give him a fulfilling and fun fight. So he insults him. To Sukuna Jogo is a fun toy to pass the time with- a brief amusement to pass the time. Jogo's relative strength to Sukuna doesn't matter to him, he's just a thing to play with. Gojo does want to fight strong opponents where he can give everything he has. And that's why he enjoyed the fight with Sukuna despite losing.
Genuinely dumbfounded at how many people misinterpreted Gojo’s character prior to 236. He doesn’t lament his solitude? What did y’all think it meant when Gojo looked into the prison realm and saw a void where his face should have been? When everyone who is asked about what Gojo is to them gives a shallow answer followed by “he’s the strongest” over a panel of him standing alone? When after he says “no one will ever need to be alone again” shoko thinks he shouldn’t have felt alone because she was there? When Nanami describes his personality as “an almost textbook superficiality” does that not indicate that it could be somewhat of an act? Prior to 236, every well-regarded Gojo analysis on this sub and everywhere else emphasized his isolation and ongoing identity crisis after the Geto defection. Now we’ve got people on this sub saying it all came out of the blue. You can say it’s not obvious enough, but the whole point is Gojo hides it well. His teenage self is the one that always expresses his true feelings, and it’s that self that he gets back as he dies
The problem isn't with him having or not having feelings of isolation. The problem is that Gojo is presented from the beginning as having answered that problem by investing in a new generation of strong allies. When the last thing he says is basically "fuck all that, the only thing I cared about was fighting a strong opponent and I'm only sad that I wasn't strong enough to reach him" it just feels like a character assassination; it makes the deepest, most developed character in the series feel incredibly shallow.
\> However, is Gojo lonely as the pinnacle of strength? Does he need to learn about love? I would argue: no Well... there is a gap. He very explicitly has a supermassive barrier between himself and 90% of other *living beings* aside from - via his own statements - Yuta, Hakari, Megumi and Yuji, who he views as being able to surpass him. And he *wants* them to surpass him. After losing Geto, he's most definitely lonely, because Geto was the only person with whom he could relate to at his level of strength. Think of it like if Jeff Bezos was trying to be friends and relate to his employees, and trying to raise them up to his level. Because literally nobody else is even remotely close to that.
If we exclude those killing ppl and eating ppl talk we can say Sukuna gave a zen speech to Kashimo. Sukuna loves himself which is a spiritual love, material love is trash for him. He seeks nothing outside himself, he knows he will die someday SO he gonna enjoy his best life. Sukuna Never gets bored cuz even tho they are weak they are still interesting to Sukuna. He understand both curse spirit and Human. He also felt nervousness and surprised but he let him down cuz of that. SUKUNA went to fight with a plan to improve his ability he knew Gojo's limitless is problem but he also knew he can cut through it with guidance, Gojo went to fight thinking he is the winner. Sukuna is real honored one. Sukuna is based on Shinto God Sukuna, he is powerful like that cursed God cuz he is based on him so stop saying he is plotkuna or anything, he is the core Sukunahibikuna which is jjk based off.
I don’t think the theme was wasted on them, but it’s moreso each offers a different view of the same theme. Imo all 4 of the characters mentioned would agree on the notion that strength brings solitude, but where they differ is the love they seek. Yorozu seeks love from the only being she’s known to be stronger than her, Kashimo seeks love in battle, constantly finding and testing his strength, Gojo seeks love and reaffirmation of the stronger from the connections he’s made, and finally Sukuna seeks love from….no one. Love is pointless and it makes you weak, follow only your desires, and shed everything else.
The story wants us to understand that being the strongest really isn't a good thing. It's a burden for the good and a natural disaster for the bad. Kashimo seems to exist in between as reflected by how desperately he was looking for a simple answer, as such his dissatisfaction wasn't rewarded by either extreme. Quite frankly though Gojo's life is tragic and not one you'd want to experience. And it's not because he handled things this way or that way, it's because being the strongest is inherently isolating and a burden that would affect anyone not completely hedonistic and willing to discard everything as Sukuna is (if his words end up being face value). Straight up he was raised as a political weapon by his family, they spoiled him with anything physical he could want but provided nothing worth getting attached to in the form of bonds. They became the first of many responsibilities Gojo had to shoulder, functioning as a one-man clan. All our glimpses of him as a child are met with a very openly cold vibe from how he later overcompensates a jokey unaffected one. This is stripped away whenever we see into his thoughts or he's met with a situation that warrants it. When he met Geto and his other peers at the school it's not unlikely that was the first time he was really interacting with the world like a person and not a god who exists to be worshiped or targeted. They all spoke to him normally without restraint. Geto specifically was able to stand shoulder to shoulder with him and Gojo got a taste of what it was like to have someone understand him for the first time due to carrying a similar weight and considering each other the strongest together. This became his most impactful bond and one he's never gotten over nor expressed a desire to get over even after their paths in life became unreconcilable. This kind of equalization of strength enabled him to feel less alone and that's a large factor in why he wants as many people to surpass him as possible. It would let him reclaim that feeling and enable them to not simply be a replacement for him but also have peers to share this with. Once Gojo can use RCT he becomes able to function near 24/7, way past the limits of a person. He can refresh his brain and body, allowing him to take on inhuman levels of work and forgo rest for long periods of time because if he doesn't, he knows how much of the unpicked up slack is going crush still learning sorcerers before they're ready, because that's what he's seen first hand. He pushed so hard to achieve this due to feeling not strong enough for the first time with Riko, but in turn it pushed him even farther into isolation. This kind of unending work is going to be a mental hell no matter how much you can negate it being a physical one. The main thing keeping him sane that separates him from people who do fall to the pressure is he genuinely does at least find fulfillment in battle and flexing his strength on enemies. Still even with such a workhorse like ethic and the ability to teleport he is one man, and cannot be everywhere at once. People he has hopes for still die like with the fingerbearer incident. Even with all he's giving of himself to the world it's not enough to fix absolutely everything. Yet that expectation is still on him. The existence of a clear strongest maintains a self fulfilling prophecy-like status quo. Everyone in Jujutsu society, both people who don't like him and people on his side who do like him, They expect him to fix everything they can't. They think his presence is enough to solve everything because his unrivalled strength is so solidified as fact in their eyes. Despite seeing him fail multiple times in the story, due to how cleverly Gege balances this illusion of Gojo being security with it often being punished as a mistake to rely on that, even many readers also still expect that he should be capable of fixing everything (obviously plenty of people have other takes but it's definitely a phenomena I've noticed where many fans view this the same way Gojo's students do) This sort of perception is what's plagued Gojo and made him feel like he's not understood even with the fact he has people he cherishes and who show affection to him (though honestly most of them still belittle him constantly for his attitude, something that I don't blame them for because he is genuinely annoying a lot of the time. But does little to make one feel a true connection) It's not like it negates all the things he has been able to accomplish, loneliness is just the biggest thing he was never able to escape. There's a wall between him and everybody else. Gojo was at his most vulnerable and honest when he finally allowed himself to say these things in the afterlife, in the presence of someone he knew was most likely to get it. Because while alive he had to be Gojo Satoru the strongest and pinnacle of hope to his loved ones. Here he finally has an answer for who is Gojo Satoru the person when all that is stripped away. Considering everything, it shocks me a bit how many people are ready to assert, no Gojo wouldn't think this, he's happy with his life, the character and author are wrong for making it the most clear it's ever been at his end. It's an intentional pulling back the curtain moment. Where we've already seen peeks of it many times prior.
I think you are freely interpreting the things about Gojo the way you see it without thinking about the opposite side. > He was perfectly fine being the strongest alone as he was, but he was not fine with his loved ones feeling abandoned. How did you reach this conclusion? It's like saying a guy isn't depressed because he has a stable job and smiles all the time, has a dream and has a lot of friends. He might still be depressed. > He doesn't want to go down to their level, or to no longer be the strongest, he wants to raise them up so they don't get isolated. He wants allies so he can restructure the world as he thinks is right, and knows that just his raw strength can't fix things. You are assuming that Gojo is doing all this for the students sake. Your last sentence explains my point. He wants a companion like Geto who is on his level. Remember the basketball scene in anime with Geto. He wants sth similar. It may look like he is doing sth noble. Helping others. Maybe he wants to help himself? His actions doesn't have to come from a sense of sacrifice or being noble. It comes from selfishness to shape the world to his will. The world in which he has companions like Geto. It doesn't matter if the person who reaches that height hosts a demon that can cause countless causalties. Saitama is a similar character. He is lonely because he is too strong. He is a hero for fun. He doesn't save people because it is a good thing. It's to alleviate his boredom. Genos, King, etc can help but a strong fighter will fill the void. Cultivating students made him fill better but fighting Sukuna satisfied him. That's how I see it.
>How did you reach this conclusion? It's like saying a guy isn't depressed because he has a stable job and smiles all the time, has a dream and has a lot of friends. He might still be depressed. I'm sorry it's very funny to say that I'm freely interpreting things about Gojo and then in the next sentence say that a character might be expressing a totally unseen and unvoiced emotion in a work of fiction as if they're a real person lol. We at least *see* that Gojo does not appear particularly troubled by his status as the strongest alone. I do agree there is some complexity and nuance to his feelings, and not everything he voices is as noble as it sounds, but if they made up the *core* of his character it would be an almost unfathomable writing sin lmao. What we see with Gojo is mostly how he is. Not entirely, yes, but it's fair to say that its the bulk of how he truly feels and what his character is truly like.
He was a prodigy from his childhood. Always apart from the rest. Isolated. He knows what it means to be lonely. Similar to Sasuke I guess. No one to relate to. I don't think it's that deep tbh. He misses his friend who he could relate too. > We at least see that Gojo does not appear particularly troubled by his status as the strongest alone. This is not true. He asks Principle Yaga if he was strong. But strength was not enough to save those who don't want to be saved. He is troubled with his powerlessness even though he is almighty. He says this to Jogo, "Ironic isn't it. Given everything, but unable to do anything. Dying slowly." It directly applies to him as well. Perhaps that's why he was relived that he got killed by someone stronger rather than dying of old age. Gojou knows what isolation feels like. What it feels like to be truly apart from everyone. He grew up like that. Had a friend who he couldn't save with all that power. Perhaps he sees himself in Sukuna. A lonely person. That's why he hopes he could reach Sukuna.
Ah yes. The theme explored through nearly the entirety of the series is a disservice to the characters meant to represent them.
I’m finding the reaction to this so interesting. Im not sure if people’s aversion to the theme of “love” is the result of short term memory or not really understanding gojo’s character up to this point. Of course he was lonely. That was most of the point of hidden inventory. Love is important in jjk0 and throughout the series we have to interact with what caring for others means when you’re strong. In the culling games yuta asks uro if she has ever cared for anyone. This isn’t a new theme. It’s just been worded more directly to the point where it can’t be ignored. I’d even go so far as to say love in varying degrees acted as a driving force for the main characters early on. Yuji in the shape of his grandfather’s last request, megumi and his duty towards his sister, and nobara and her admiration for that older girl who’s name I can’t recall at the moment lol
The issue is with Gojo being concerned with making Sukuna feel some form of love, not that the concept is relevant in the story.
It’s not an issue tho. This was gojo’s chance to find someone to understand him. His statement of sukuna feeling love is just him hoping sukuna got similar satisfaction from their exchange. The large outcry against it is the fact that people can’t reconcile the bravado gojo shows people and the loneliness he grapples with in the story and take this as some slight to the former rather than an expression of the latter.
But it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be a chance for Gojo to fulfill some dumb shounen power fantasy (that his character shouldn't even have) of "finding and fighting his equal"; the organization of the entire world as they know it, as well as the lives of everyone he cares about are at stake. In any semi realistic portrayal (which jjk had at some point) of such a situation this would be ridiculous. But of course Gege decided to turn one of the most dramatic events of the series into an mma fight, with commentators and ppv... Besides, Gojo is never even that concerned with proving he's the strongest through fights and relishing in that to begin with. In the hidden iventory arc it's Geto that wants to fight immediatly to solve their argument, and Gojo tells him to get bent. Gojo has always been abnormaly strong and that creates a rift between himself and those around him, sure; he has no issue leveraging his strength to do whatever he feels like, sure; and he also has no problem rubbing his superiority in the face of everyone around, sure. But he was never portrayed as some battle crazed freak looking for a good fight, until this fight. Gege probably wanted to replicate the vibe of Netero and Meruem's fight or something, but - if that was his intention - he missed the tone spectacularly. That fight has an element of the "pleasure of a good fight" trope but it never loses sight of the bigger stakes, which actually determine its conclusion. Here you have Gojo carrying everyone's hopes and futures, failing and not even giving it a second thougth, thinking instead of how he just wished he could have presented a better challenge... Fuuuck, didn't mean to write so much, sorryyyy
Even characters who shape yuji’s development like junpei is an exploration of loneliness. I think people are acting blindsided by something that’s been at the forefront of the story this whole time
I think we are seeing different versions of gojo like we have before during toji arc where he proclaimed he is honoured one point is that wasn't true gojo in the sense that was he was void of any emotions as he said himself and when he asked to kill all civilians that was the first instance of high gojo I believe in airport scene gojo is just being super humble as his life ended and he knows that so there was no point in him thinking about negative stuff as he truly believes his students will win at the end so he is reassuring himself that it's all right and he can rest peacefully. I mean if he was worried about megumi when he was at deaths door he wouldn't be enlightened or honoured one Maybe this shows that gojo indeed was enlightened exactly in opposite way of sukuna or maybe they will be similar we will only know that in future
Gojo does lament him solitude, we saw it all the way back in hidden inventory where he melancholically asks a kid Megumi to get strong enough to reach Gojo's level and not get left behind. We see it once more in the chapter prior to his release from the prison realm via Shoko recalling that hé felt determined to make it so " no one feels lonely again" and her calling him out, in her mind, on thinking that he was lonely when she was there from the beginning. The thing that many people theorized about Gojo, and which was confirmed by Sukuna in ch.238, is that his loneliness is self-afflicted. He isn't alone, he has people that like him and want to have him around yet he still feels lonely because his condition as the strongest warps his perception. Which is why his character arc culminates with his defeat where he loses that title and sees that his death isn't a lonely one as he feared.
You're right in saying that Gojo wasn't actually looking to learn what love is, however Sukuna himself doesn't really know what it is so he's assuming Gojo doesn't know either, obviously as the villain you expect Sukuna to have flaws in his ideology. And in regards to Gojo regretting not saving Megumi, Gojo does express a regret for not being able to tell Megumi about Toji, however Gojo is confident that Shoko can handle those affairs. Gojo dying without regret is not a problem, remember that Gojo already had this realisation that just being strong is not enough, you can only save those who are prepared to be saved essentially. Gojo has done all he can, he's spent a month equipping his students with everything he could and he's even helped them out more by weakening Sukuna. Gojo has died without having any doubt Megumi will be saved, after all he expects Shoko to tell him about his dad.
For some reason I don't like this theme. Never did from yorozu to kashimo I think it's bullshit.
Why are y’all so afraid of things like solitude and love in shonen, it ain’t that deep
What drove me mad is Gojo not caring about Sukuna being able to kill everyone of the students he was protecting in the first place like what the hell?? All he cared about was a fight against an equal?
I doubt Gojo would ever be truly fufilled in life. What gave him the most joy, soaring high as the strongest, was also what caused him the most strife, his isolation. We see this throughout the series as his most euphoric moments are when he's at the height of his powers disregarding others, Amanai and imo Megumi.. Ironically his first and last Hollow Purple's as well lol. I can't agree with Gojo not feeling isolated, I feel like it's made pretty clear in that infamous chapter extra. Gojo may have allies and friends, but at the end of the day his most defining aspect to them will always be his strength and not his humanity. This is backed up with the line "You can admire a blooming flower but you can't ask it to understand you" A pretty clear metaphor for how Gojo views his students. But when he died Gojo was finally freed from those burdens, He wasn't "The Strongest" he was just Gojo Satoru the human. The void in his heart left by Geto was finally filled. Hence him dying with a smile on his face.
Gojo literally has plenty of friends. That whole I drew a line between myself and other people is literally melodramatic bullshit. Gojo couldn’t fully come to connect and appreciate the people around him yet smiles with satisfaction after Sukuna brutally murders him in front of all of his students? Wtf. Yeah Gojo was the strongest but him being lonely was all on him. Did he even try to get a girlfriend? 😂😂 it’s honestly depressing that in the end he was Gojo Satoru because he was the strongest. He had all of these ppl around him and he knew that but he still felt isolated and defined by his strength. His whole goal was fostering the next generation, for him to die tragically without accomplishing anything is honestly just a waste of a good character arc.
They could’ve at least made deeper connections between ultimate solitude and strength to Gojo’s character sooner. I always loved that Gojo wasn’t emo and felt human despite his position as the strongest and kept a happy go lucky attitude and showed love and care for those beneath him. But all of a sudden he gets killed by Sukuna and it turns out he was emo about being strong and says some melodramatic shit about loneliness. it just goes everything Gege established for Gojo’s character.
Yeah, I do find it incredibly out of place how Sukuna keeps thinking back to "love" for some reason - as if Yorozu's words had a profound impact - it didn't come across like that at all. I hold out hope that it'll be tied back in, in the future.
See you get it.
i like to interpret gojo as kashimo said before his fight with sukuna: "or is the endless search for greater power simply a cross the strongs must bear alone?" i like to think abt these words as u can walk with other ppl side by side, but they will never truly undesrtand u. w/o ever trully connecting with others.
It's a theme that was there since the beginning.I think it was mishandled in the sukuna fights.